THURSDAY, JANUARY 26, 2023
Remarkably strange beliefs: What follows is, or should be, deeply depressing. It's a note about Tony Dungy, a Super Bowl-winning former NFL head coach.
On a personal basis, Dungy has always been highly regarded within NFL circles. He's also a Christian conservative, but what follows isn't intended as a commentary on his past or present political judgments.
What follows is a commentary on something he apparently believed. Here's the start of a recent report from the Indianapolis Star:
FRANK (1/21/23): Tony Dungy, the former coach of the Indianapolis Colts, apologized Saturday for a since-deleted comment on Twitter earlier in the week regarding a proposed Minnesota state bill requiring menstrual products in boys' school bathrooms.
"This past week I posted a tweet that I subsequently deleted. I issued an apology but not everyone saw it," Dungy's tweet stated. "So I am reposting my apology here. As a Christian I want to be a force for love to everyone. A force for healing and reconciliation-not for animosity."
As part of his apology that was made the day after his deleted tweet, Dungy said, "As a Christian I should speak in love and in ways that are caring and helpful. I failed to do that and I am deeply sorry."
Dungy's original comment about the subject stated: "That's nothing," Dungy tweeted at 9:38 a.m. Wednesday. "Some school districts are putting litter boxes in the school bathrooms for students who identify as cats. Very important to address every student's needs."
By 7:30 p.m. Wednesday, Dungy deleted his cat litter tweet which was in response to a Daily Wire video showing Minnesota State Rep. Sandra Feist advocating for menstrual items in boys' school bathrooms.
Should public schools have menstrual products inside boys' bathrooms? Presumably, most people can probably see why that proposal would strike many people as strange.
That's not what we're talking about! We're talking about the fact that Dungy apparently believed the claim which has been going around, according to which some districts now have litter boxes in public school bathrooms (and classrooms) for kids who identify as cats.
By any normal measure, Tony Dungy plainly isn't "stupid." On a personal basis, he's long been highly regarded by most people who know him.
That said, he was somehow able to believe the claim about the public school litter boxes. He believed it to the point where he was willing to post a tweet complaining about the practice.
For better or worse, we all live in an age of "new anthropology." The rise of talk radio and social media have created a world in which crazy claims are persistently all around us—and many people believe them.
This strikes us as a new and profound anthropological learning. It was hard to know that we human are able to believe anything, no matter how transparently nutty, until the Internet came along and put the matter to a test.
There's nothing we humans won't believe! This strikes us as a major new learning. It also represents a terrible, daunting challenge to our political system.
For the record, weird belief isn't confined to red tribe people, the ones who live Over There. Our own tribe has its own widespread forms of unfortunate bogus belief.
(Did you hear the one about the crazily racist white medical students?)
There seems to be no claim which is so transparently nutty or improbable that lots of people won't believe it, especially at times of tribal stress. The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but we humans aren't "the rational animal," and it looks like we never were!
"Man [sic] is the rational animal?" Way back when, at the dawn of the west, was that the original transparently wacky belief?
"That said, he was somehow able to believe the claim about the public school litter boxes. He believed it to the point where he was willing to post a tweet complaining about the practice."
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not so much stupidity as that Dungy is apparently only reading right-wing sources. This mistaken claim about litter boxes was widely debunked in the mainstream media. But you had to have read that media to know that the claim was bogus.
Somerby spends time telling his readers that we need to be listening to Tucker in order to under The Others (and because Tucker has better facts), but I haven't heard him tell his own readers here that we should be listening to the fact checking on our own side. It isn't necessary, I guess, because we are already doing that. But is anyone on the right urging right-wing readers to visit mainstream media sites to hear what is factually true? Of course, not. Because they are the ones spreading disinformation over there and they want their readers to believe that stuff, become irate and be more motivated to support right wing candidates. Dungy was doing exactly what the right wants by believing wrong info.
And that is the key difference between the right and the left. And no, this is not happening equally on the left, although Somerby tries to equate mainstream media with right-wing propaganda:
"For the record, weird belief isn't confined to red tribe people, the ones who live Over There. Our own tribe has its own widespread forms of unfortunate bogus belief."
What is Somerby's example? That study of pain undertreatment that he thinks he debunked, but which he instead maligned without good cause and never did understand (based on his mistaken criticisms). That is hardly an equal example -- on the one hand nonexistent litter boxes in something that never happened, and on the other hand a complicated medical study that was peer reviewed and found to be informative, which Somerby insists was bogus (despite his own arguments being wrong, as was thoroughly explained in comments Somerby never reads). That just isn't any kind of equivalence.
The attempt to find an equivalence exemplifies Stoehr's argument that there are centrists (Somerby may be one) who are trying to portray the right and left as equally extreme, when only the right wing is actually extreme these days, so that they can assert third way political views that are in their own way, as extreme as what is happening on the right.
The people of Minnesota will decide about menstrual products in bathrooms, but equating that with litter boxes in hallways is a pretty extreme position because it ridicules the need for menstrual products by those who menstruate, which is cruel and unnecessary. If a bathroom comes with such products, it can be used by both men and women and is not dedicated solely to men, which gives administrators flexibility in use of space, but also women more places to go.
I attended a production of the Broadway show Mean Girls a week ago. Many girls came with friends, and some attended with their mothers. As a result, the bathroom line was extremely long for women, but there were few men still in line as the end of intermission neared and the show was about to start. There were still many women in the bathroom line with no way to speed things up. Simply reassigning the men's room to women would have been a kindness to all. I'm told this also happens at sporting events. Making a simple change to install machines in ALL bathrooms would help everyone.
Somerby apparently doesn't want to argue this. He wants to just leave it as a ridiculous proposition, akin to litter boxes in schools (which IS ridiculous, deliberately so, since it originated on the right to "own" libs). Bathroom necessities are not ridiculous, but that may not occur to men, who can pee outdoors without removing any clothing, and thus think women pee too often, or are being too annoyingly demanding, or shouldn't bother men with their menstrual needs.
anon 2:48 - I would think a law requiring menstrual products in boys' bathrooms in schools is a good example of woke nuttiness. But you make a good point - maybe all public bathrooms could be coed. Women take longer to pee than men, that's why there are sometimes lines at theaters at intermission. I doubt that the proposed law in Minnesota is based on the girls using the boys bathrooms because the girl's bathroom is too crowded - it''s probably some trans thing where girls who think they are boys, or want to be boys, use the boys' bathroom, and then, because they really are female, they might need menstrual products.
DeleteI'm trying to point out that punishing trans people is not good policy. Many adjustment made to accommodate those with disabilities, for example, benefit everyone way more than the individuals they were aimed at. As a commenter below points out, there are also intersex people who are born with two sets of genitalia, but who present themselves consistently from birth as male (their parents and doctor decided for them) despite having a uterus. These people are not less rare than transmale people, but right wingers seem to trivialize their needs by referring to confused teens as their idea of who such laws might benefit.
DeleteNo one's home has a separate male and female bathroom. We share. There is no ability to share when a male bathroom is equipped only for men and a female bathroom only for women. I've heard men complain about how dirty and embarrassing it is for them to use some men's rooms. Some needs are universal to all. A male student who has menstrual needs should not have to make a huge case out of dealing with a period. And if the girl's bathroom is temporarily out of products or their machine is broken (as happens more often than it should), someone can duck into the men's room to get what they need. Win-win.
This idea that someone can look at a person and know what they really are, in terms of biology, is naive and wrong. There are people walking around with a variety of X and Y chromosome deviations, who don't even know it because babies are not tested for genotype at birth. Forcing people into inflexible categories is a bad idea and we can do better. The foot-dragging by Republicans is not just unempathetic, but is being done for political reasons, to make political issues out of people's private lives. It is as ridiculous and unfair as Tucker Carlson's campaign against m&m's with shoes he doesn't find attractive.
You can know someone's gender by looking at their genitals.
DeleteNot necessarily. Does that idea scare you?
DeleteYou just look at the genitals to see if there's a vagina or a penis and then you know the gender. End of story.
DeleteBiologically speaking. If the male wants to identifies a female psychologically, they can do it if they wish but their biological gender is clear from the penis hanging between their legs.
DeleteIt's a losing political platform to say the cock hanging between your legs does not necessarily mean you are a man. It's one of the stupidest things anyone could ever say.
Delete"hey world, we're not worried about the environment or income inequality, we're worried about more important things like making sure high school boys have Tampax."
DeleteThis is God's gift to Republicans.
Everyone who needs Tampax should have access to it. The same with food, clothing, and other basic needs.
Delete@6:49 & 6:57, who is so concerned about cocks, they can be easily removed via surgery. Freud would say you might have a castration complex, given your concern about not being manly if your cock were cut off. What will you do when you are elderly and cannot get it up? Resign from your gender?
I feel sorry for people who do not understand this stuff because there is a lot of unnecessary suffering inflicted by insecure men on those around them because they don't know where their manhood comes from. Tucker Carlson is manipulating viewers that way, suggesting they have to tan their balls in order to stay manly, when being masculine has absolutely nothing to do with that at all. This is very sad.
This reply makes no sense at all. Thanks for trying though.
DeleteTaking pride in being anti trans is just another indication of how wounded you are, how much you are a lost soul.
DeleteSex and gender are definitionally different things, conflating them doesn’t make you clever, it just makes you a moron.
Indeed, aside from trans people - who have just as much right to their gender as you do, many genetic males have female parts, and vice versa. You turning a blind eye to biology and science is not something to strut around with smug superiority; it’s just more bullshit from a tragic person unable to move past whatever horrible trauma they have suffered. It’s tragic and it’s sad, but you and your ilk are ruining society for everyone else. The less you crucify others for your own sins and suffering, the better off everyone will be.
I agree that teenage boys have the right to access to tampons to insert into their vaginas to soak up their menstrual blood. Maybe not the world's biggest problem though.
DeleteSorry sweetie, criticizing gender politics is not anti-trans.
DeleteCriticizing gender politics is anti trans, your claim to the contrary is one of the most moronic claims in history - now maybe that you can take pride in.
DeleteIt’s obvious from the nasty and hateful tone in your comments that this issue triggers you; likely the trauma you have suffered has some sexual aspect, thus the faux righteous and snarky comments.
Every comment you make is just a case study for anthropologists to gain more insight into the mind of a right winger, our species tragic figure.
I work with three trans people every day. And it's very very sad to me when they have to go into the men's bathroom to pee or take a shit. They need to work that out and have a third bathroom that is gender-neutral. I would definitely not want to pee or shit with any women around and I'm sure the women feel the same way. My company is very progressive but we haven't gotten there yet. But things are progressing right on schedule. There's no need to worry. This will all be ironed out in time. Teenage boys will be able to access tampons to put in their vaginas. And trans people like the lovely, incredible trans people I work with will have bathrooms where they can pull out their cock and pee in a way that isn't so gender exclusive and perhaps demeaning to the way they view themselves and their gender identity etc. I don't think it's a big deal though. I think it's more important that we work on issues of class, healthcare and income inequality.
Delete9:18 I'm a Democrat, sweetheart.
Delete@9:21, if you are not using a stall, someone needs to complain to HR. Everyone deserves privacy. If you go into a stall, you won’t see what anyone else is doing unless you make a point of looking, which is an invasion of their privacy. Treating other people with respect and dignity is every bit as important as those other issues.
DeleteAre you unaware that a man who eyeballs another man’s junk at the urinal can get himself beat up. It is an aggressive act. Men have bathroom etiquette and so do women, which should keep anyone from noticing who is trans and who is not. But you keep fantasizing.
I noticed they are trans because they have beards and wear dresses. Not from any interaction in the restroom.
DeleteMany old ladies have beards and wear dresses but are not trans. Hormones change as people age. Try not to offend anyone and do your job and you’ll be fine.
DeleteWow. Complete and total trolling. You remind me of a drunkard I know.
DeleteYou saw Kevin McCarthy hand his balls to Matt Gaetz on a platter. Do you still think he's male?
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Some identify as cats, some identify as chicks. Others aren’t sure.
ReplyDeleteToday's definition of right and left are very convenient for lazy thinkers. You get your complete set of beliefs right out of the box, no thought required. The media has been pushing this paradigm, because it is profitable (for their stakeholders), easy (for them to report on), and safe (for the larger network of corporations extending into the lobbyist industry and politics.)
ReplyDeleteThe fact that this framework stifles free thinking and nuanced understanding is irrelevant to the institution of the MSM and the fully indoctrinated representative that comes here to defend them. They have set sandboxes where they can still pretend to have nuanced ideas, but a careful reading of them exposes how shallow they actually are and the reader is left with nothing but marching orders and the sand that is the promise of original thoughts and ideas that move the discussion somewhere other than red vs. blue, it trickles between the reader's fingers and leaves nothing else.
Sandboxes are original thoughts?
DeleteThird way centrists are arguing this, but they are mostly against traditional parties without offering their own positions, ideas or programs.
Delete4:13 utter nonsense. Right and Left are political designations related to who is included/excluded in decision making on a societal level. Nuance is a wonderful concept, a value in many circumstances, but not in left/right designation. The Left wants equality and egalitarianism, the Right wants hierarchy and dominance. The only thing nuance serves in that arena is to muddy the waters in order to oppress The Other.
DeleteAnd the quote of the day is...
ReplyDelete"Bathroom necessities are not ridiculous, but that may not occur to men, who can pee outdoors without removing any clothing, and thus think women pee too often, or are being too annoyingly demanding, or shouldn't bother men with their menstrual needs."
On the positive side, the author initially left open the possibilitiy that womens' needs MIGHT occur to some men, perhaps a more thoughtful, less sexist male COULD possibly exist out there! But this quickly dissipated in favor of the absolute "...and thus think..."
Even better, anyone that criticizes this wonderful paragraph is OBVIOUSLY one of these sexist, unempathetic men. And thus we are left; less intelligent and wise for our time spent trying to find value in this commenter's flaccid, banal, and empty ideas.
The idea is that bathrooms should be plentiful and serve everyone’s needs. That was clearly stated. What is your objection?
DeleteHighlighting a paragraph is not actually an argument.
DeleteI’m getting confused about the sexist men who won’t bother to understand the concerns of women.
DeleteAre these men with penises or men with vaginas?
Which are you?
DeleteAnonymouse 8:48pm, Im just one more person who you assign sex based stereotypes when you don’t have a better argument.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:08pm, if there is anything that shows how unserious anonymices are about the stuff they preach it’s you calling me a pretend woman. You do it both as trying to troll me and because I don’t meet your expectations as to what “real” women think.
DeleteYou know this trans crap is nonsense by your own reactions that reveal your true mindset as being no different from anyone in 1952. This is just a you refashioning reality as a power play.
Cecilia, you are right. There's no question this issue is about bullying and power.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:51pm, no one need believe that I‘m a woman. I’m words on a blog board. My identity isn’t my female name, but my having a verified nym.
DeleteWhat is absolutely golden in its denudement, is your insistence that I’m a man based upon nothing more than your own gender stereotypes, while you argue that genetics is the stuff of fluff.
nyms aren’t verified in any way here
DeleteThey’re verified via Blogger.
DeleteNo, they are not. Anyone can type anything they want into a blogspot profile. No one checks anything.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:04am, it’s verified in the sense that it’s one account. You should always take profiles (and everything else) with a grain of salt.
DeleteIt could be the case where several people log into this one account and post as though they are a single person (as a sort of tag team, I suppose), but it would be discernible if posts from that same account were contradictory.
That’s more accountability than a slew of comments from “Anonymous”.
In other words, it is not "verified" in any way. Here is what happens when someone clicks on your nym:
Delete"The Blogger Profile you requested cannot be displayed. Many Blogger users have not yet elected to publicly share their Profile."
You are such a fraud.
Anonymouse 12:04pm, it’s verified in the way I described. I post under it. There’s no other Cecelia in green type on Blogger and I have a history of positions so you are able to ascertain any contradictions or reversals that I make. If I cuss you out or say something very controversial, I can’t come back the next day and pretend to be the soul of propriety.
DeleteYou, not so much. .
How about if you say mean things about trans people. Do you imagine there is anyone around here who doesn't know the ugliness of your soul now, no matter what color your nym happens to be?
DeleteMen’s man defense is always “not all men…” but if not all men behave a certain way, then why are there still problems?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete"That said, he was somehow able to believe the claim about the public school litter boxes."
Huh? So what, dear Bob. We believe it too.
There is no doubt whatsoever that one brain-dead liberal or another would do it. That one brain-dead liberal or another has done it. Just like the menstrual items in boys' bathrooms thing.
Your tribe is made up of brain-dead creatures, dear Bob. Don't you know that?
Way dumber than Dungy’s belief, is Somerby and Drum’s belief that there are Trump voters to “peel off”, and that racism is a thing of the past.
ReplyDeleteThat’s pretty rich being smug about Dungy while in reality being way more moronic.
The other thing Somerby is here to be smug about and sneer at, is that there are trans males that need those products; also there are people born and raised as (genetic) males that have female parts, it ranges, from about 1 in 1k to 1 in 15k people are like this.
Good grief, what a 10 year old little bully Somerby is.
anon 5:02, so there needs to be a law that menstrual products be placed in boys' bathrooms because, according to you, somewhere between 1 in !.000 and 1 in 15,000 people who were born and raised as males have female genetic parts and need menstrual products in the boy's bathroom. This is the kind of thing that might induce a lot of voters not to vote for democrats.
DeleteGenetic parts?
DeleteWhy in the world would this induce a lot of voters not to vote for Democrats, AC? Forget that Republicans want to destroy the social safety net, that they pass tax cuts for the wealthy, driving up income inequality, pass laws that make workers’ lives more miserable, oppose the minimum wage, favor big business polluters, but if Democrats pass laws about menstrual products, that’s the deciding factor? That strikes me as deranged.
DeleteDid you know that they used to sell cigarettes in public bathrooms, and condoms? Do you know that bathrooms are where most bullying of boys takes place, not to mention vandalism? It is where drug users shoot up and dealers sell product. Would that be less likely if girls were present? There are some bad reasons for keeping bathrooms so segregated.
DeleteBut if a transperson needs a menstrual product, why is it any concern to anyone else? Who does it hurt? Why make life difficult for people who have had enough problems in their lives? Republicans have no good answers for those sorts of questions.
When a girl winds up at school without a menstrual product, she can ask another girl for help and she will share. Who does a trans male ask for help when caught unawares? It is tantamount to announcing that one is trans, when perhaps that was info he may have wanted to keep to himself. Can you imagine the reaction he might get from guys?
Try putting yourself in someone else's place, David.
Some potential Democratic voters may be turned off by the issue because it's not important to them at all and some may have a feeling that these gender issues are anti-male and kooky. Probably some pretty firmly believe that it's a stupid issue on which to focus in the country's current context. If I was one of the power-hungry multi-millionaires running the Democratic party I would recommend we stay the hell away from it and focus on jobs and healthcare.
Delete6:46: I maintain my previous comment. Why on earth would anyone use this kind of issue as the deciding factor between destroying the social safety net (Republicans) vs Democrats who created it and want to protect but…menstrual products in bathrooms, which might help some people?. It’s insane.
DeleteIt's not a choice between two things. The potential Democratic voter could become or remain a non-voter. In terms of Republican voters, you're presenting a false choice. Voters are not presented with the simple scenario you offer here. The main thrust is that making a political issue out of getting teenage boys maxi pads is basically crazy. I get it if you can't see that because there's a definite disconnect in our culture over these issues.
DeleteOnly Republicans are making an issue of this. It is just one of many bills in Minnesota.
DeleteMH - you always have your head in the sand about these woke wars. It has always been a fundamental reality that there are 2 sexes, males and females. I don't believe that there are trans tigers or goldfish. Now, seemingly from out of nowhere, there is a distinction between biological sex and gender. It's an extremely radical change from what was always, with reason, a basic, fundamental part of reality. Maybe people should be concerned with more important issues - but the fact is it seems nuts, because it is nuts, and it undermines.a basic world concept. It probably, along with all the other manifestations of wokeness (e.g., America is a "white supremacist country"). Because so much of it is nuts, it turns off voters. Another example - a baby is born and it has always been understood that it is a boy or a girl. Now, the baby is "assigned" a gender - maybe we should treat all children as neuter, and at the age of say 12, they can decide if they want to be male or female.
DeleteThis is a naming problem. If you refer to transboys instead of boys, it makes more sense to give them menstrual products. No one wants to give boys something they don’t need.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:44pm, if having a sensible /rational perceptive is the goal, then do a poll on how many boys don’t mind sharing a bathroom with trans boys as compared to the number of girls who are at ease with doing their business around transgirls.
DeleteSome babies are born with anomalies. Today it is talked about, not hidden as shameful. We no longer think people with birthmarks are cursed by the devil either.
DeleteBoys don’t “share” bathrooms in any intimate sense. There are stalls for that and they are private in both boys and girls bathrooms.
DeleteAsk teenage female athletes how they feel about a young man who all of a sudden feels like they are a woman competing against them in the competitions they've spent so much time training for.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:01pm, you’ve never heard of urinals?
DeleteThere is zero evidence that accommodating trans people or intersex people has any impact on Democratic voters other than a positive one; there is evidence that it motivates right wing voters.
DeleteThe discourse offered here by the faux lawyer and the faux woman, both hard core right wingers, is disingenuous and done in bad faith. All they are giddily saying is “oh boy! We found a new weapon to exert dominance over others with”.
Doesn't motivating right-wing voters have an impact on Democratic politics¿??????????¿??????¿????????????????????????????¿??????¿????????????????????????????¿??????¿????????????????????????????¿??????¿???????????????????
DeleteHELLLLOOOOOOOOO???..???????
Also it’s hard to believe that someone genuinely thinks it’s fundamental there are 2 sexes, full stop. That has never been the case in nature, nor humanity. Separating sex and gender is in fact ancient among humans.
DeleteThere is no way someone has their head in the sand as to believe such nonsense.
It’s sad to see someone motivated to claim such nonsense and to be so hateful. To be so filled with hate such as our fake lawyer and fake woman, it’s disturbing to think what trauma gave birth to that.
Cecelia, no man is forced to use a urinal. Men’s rooms have stalls too.
DeleteFemale athletes like to practice with and against men because it improves their own performance. The small number of trans people who are also athletes are not going to upend women’s sports. The transwomen are not necessarily better just because they were male. Being trans imposes physical liabilities not just advantages. Assuming being male is always better is a stereotype.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:31pm, until the last decade or so, people thought that for thousands of years.
DeleteIt’s the height of hubris and narcissism to demand that everyone now see biology as subservient to “feelings” even as you champion “gender affirming care” which is based upon the biological differences between male and female.
In the past, we addressed this condition of “feelings” as gender dysphoria. We’ve tolerated cross dressers and have even gone as far to cheer on drag queens who promote the lowest sort of sexual stereotypes of women.
So now you’re demanding that the whole world ignore biology with you so that you have the power to redefine reality and to reward and to punish people based upon this power. You’ll push gender stereotypes when it suits you, and bash people based upon these same troupes, when that serves your purpose,
No. Go sit down, tyrant.
Anonymouse 9:40pm, no man is forced to use a urinal, but men do use them. Women don’t see this because women aren’t forced to share bathrooms with biological men.
DeleteYour argument is based traditional privacy requirements in public bathrooms that you assure us will remain the case, even as you denounce inconveniences towards women with penises.
Going by your own argument, how long will it be till giving up the easy access to urinals is an unfair and biased constraint on women who can pee standing up?
I love this back and forth, but I'm disappointed in some of the Right-wing arguments Cecelia, AC/ MA, David, and some other trolls are making.
DeleteI'm going to politely ask again that you first call Liberals "snowflakes" before you whine and cry about made-up culture issues.
Anonymouse 8:42am, our side is the status quo.
DeleteYour side is the one that is agitating for a redefinition of gender based upon the feelings of people suffering from gender dysphoria and by voicing your own feelings of anger and frustration at dissent from this new philosophy.
Buy a mirror.
Trans people have always existed, just as gay people have always existed. This is nothing new. The new part is urging that society stop discriminating against them. We now have laws prohibiting such discrimination. Gay bashing is a hate crime. So is trans bashing. You are defending bigotry and cruelty.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:02pm, see how quickly it changes from your contrarians being snowflakes to being villains because we don’t agree with your bending of reality. What you’re basically arguing is that bathrooms and changing rooms should be coed in all circumstances.
DeleteNo dice, Frosty.
“our side is the status quo. “
DeleteCecelia, the reactionary.
The status quo in 1859? Slavery.
The status quo in 1919? Women couldn’t vote.
The status quo in 1953? School segregation was enforced.
The status quo in 1963? Blacks could effectively not vote.
The status quo pre-obergefell? Gays could not marry.
The reactionary force (aka status quo) has always existed and has opposed any change every single time.
LBJ had it right. After the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were passed, he predicted the Democrats would lose the South for a generation. His only error was in underestimating the time frame.
So, fuck you, Cecelia, for your defense of the “status quo.”
I assume that means your ilk also defend massive income inequality and the worst excesses of capitalism. Congratulations.
The only thing that is new is the faux outrage over gender identity.
DeleteHuman societies have always included gay, trans, non binary, gender fluid people.
These also exist in non human nature.
Right wingers do not really care about gender (especially the one pretending to be a woman), it is just yet another empty attempt to weaponize something to gain a sense of dominance over others.
The status quo is always worth defending in the face of trendy and specious arguments. It’s not the first time in history that we’ve been told that a “new” human being was on the horizon by virtue of training and will.
DeleteIf you want to make a case against tradition you’re going to have come up with something that will stand up to an autopsy report.
The Roman baths were coed.
DeleteI would strongly suggest the Coach never actually believed the cat litter story. Often right
ReplyDeletewingers make stupid jokes are claims and don’t care if they aren’t true. Politics is generally too boring for them, so they have to make up either ridiculous victim fantasies ( war on Christmas) or science fiction comic book stuff like liberals turning into giant lizards etc. it one of the reasons Bob telling them they are cool if they believe Trump because he believes what he is saying is rather dangerous.
Do most liberals believe the contention about medical student? Most have never heard it. When Micheal Moore tells liberals Obama is trying to kill them with bad drinking water, do they believe him? Some do. Too many just remain silent. Generally liberals are not as stupid and amoral as conservatives and like America 🇺🇸 much better.
IMO either Tony Dungy meant his remark to be sarcasm, or he was quoting someone who meant it as sarcasm, IMO sarcasm was entirely appropriate. The idea that someone can change his/her/their sex at will based purely on subjective feelings is nutty. Somehow the so-called transsexuals' have achieved a privileged position where it's a big faux pas to criticize them.
ReplyDeleteBTW I am not talking about about people who have some special genetic situation or who go through the surgery of changing sex. they have objective evidence of their gender. They're entitled to identify as a different gender. They
Is someone changing their sex at will, if their subjective feeling has always been that they were born the wrong sex?
DeleteDavid, your remark about not criticizing transsexuals is offensive given their murder rate.
This idea that there is some group of people who are experimenting with being a different sex on a whim is a ridiculous stereotype used to persecute trans people.
We are all entitled to identify as whatever gender we feel we are. There are no gender police in this country. The attempts of the right to change that are a severe invasion of privacy that must not be tolerated in a free country. You personally, David, do not get to define for others what makes someone trans. You can only express your own gender identity, not tell others who to be.
@6:04 You make some good points. The group I'm most concerned about is the youngsters. IMO many children and teens are not necessarily secure in their sexuality. I don't think children should be given sex change medications or surgery. I don't think school girls should be forced to shower with people with penises.
DeleteWhen someone feels like they were born the wrong sex, they are not identifying with the gender assigned to them at birth, but with a different gender. "Identifying" means you feel like the gender you identify as is right for you, describes the way you are inside.
DeleteIf you have a penis and you do not identify as male and it disturbs you to the point that you feel despair, you can have gender reassignment surgery and have the penis removed. That is your right as a citizen of the USA. Or you can leave the penis alone and call yourself a different gender (male and female are not the only alternatives) and as far as anyone is concerned, that is what you are. People in this country have no right to inspect other people's genitals and tell them to be something that doesn't feel right to them. This is still a free country, until the Republicans get hold of it and force people who seek freedom to emigrate.
Biology is changed with hormones (which is nature's way of assigning gender) and surgery (which is our way of correcting nature's mistakes). Read Chaz Bono's biography for details about how this works. No one is "locked into" any biological gender. In the past, before there were medical treatments, people who wanted to be a different gender, wore the clothing and adopted the behavior of that gender and no one examined them or cared. There were women who fought as men in the Revolutionary and Civil wars. There were men who behaved as women, including sexually, as geishas or concubines or wives or companions. People pass in society without comment because to do otherwise was socially unacceptable. People have and deserve privacy.
This simplistic view that you are your genitals leaves out people with two sets of genitals or with none (such as men who have circumcision accidents, which happens more frequently than you might think). For a man without a penis to consider himself not a man would be ridiculous, just as men with ED are still men. For a woman who does not bear children to be considered not a woman is equally ridiculous. That would mean that all grannies are not female.
Wrap your tiny brain around the FACT that people are male and female in their brains and not in their genitalia.
If being Republican is really a matter of ignorance of basic facts about sex, then no wonder Republican politicians are attacking libraries and schools. @7:14, you need to get a book and read about how this works, so that you won't be believing crazy stuff that harms people who are divergent in one way or another. There are people in this world who are asexual, identify as no particular gender, and who do not want to be pigeon-holed by bigoted assumptions. We need to be tolerant of everyone's choices when it comes to sexual orientation, identity and biology (note that these are three different aspects of sex).
David, no one is forcing surgery on children. That is a dirty Republican lie. Hospitals deny that it occurs and so do parents of trans kids. Parents and doctors do make decisions together for a child's welfare when a child is born with anomalies or is severely dysphoric to the point of suicide or self-harm. That is between the doctor and the parent and is done to help the child, not because a child is going through a phase or has a whim or wants attention (as Republicans claim).
DeleteNo one thinks that female children should shower with anyone with a penis, not even dads or brothers (in most American households, although this may occur in other cultures). There is some controversy about whether it is good for young boys to shower with their dads too. I personally think that schools should provide private individual showers for both girls and boys. Most schools with communal showers also have a few private ones for those who want or need to use them. Many teen girls don't like showering with other girls. It is embarrassing, especially if you are a slow developer. I imagine boys feel the same way, especially given the physical hazing boys endure in showers.
Republicans seem to fear that some boy is going to claim to be trans (with all the bullying that entails) in order to show a girl his penis in a shower -- that is beyond ridiculous, pathological, not normal. A trans girl is more likely to shower at home for fear of being embarrassed at school, or outed, or socially ostracized or even beaten up. What do you think life is like for a trans girl or boy in an unaccepting environment? It is a difficult path that no one would choose except that the alternative is worse.
When I was in high school, I was on the girls tennis team, not because I liked tennis, but because if you were on a team you had gym at the end of the day and could go home to shower and not have to take a communal shower and then go home with wet hair (before they had hair dryers). Girls don't like showering together and I think many boys don't like it either. It would be nice if schools didn't force that on kids. As an adult, one can choose how private to be, but kids are treated as if it doesn't matter, when it does.
I assume you think it is OK for a girl who is of age to shower with someone with a penis, if they both want to. Or is that too shocking for Republicans to contemplate? I wonder if all the fuss over trans kids is because adults don't want to think of kids as having sexual identities at all.
Sex change is literally impossible. Every cell of our bodies, except for the blood, remains coded with our birth gender for life. You're living in a warped fantasyland that was borne out of a frustrated need for power and used now to bully others and help Democrats lose elections.
DeleteSex is in the brain.
Deleteanon 6:04 - you say you are offended by DinC's observations "given [transexuals] murder rate." You are presumably referring to the claims made that trans people are murdered, due to trans hate, at some horrendous rate. Anyone can easily go to sites which announce each known instance where a trans person is "murdered." The sites keep track of the numbers, and you can easily get info on the circumstances of each of their deaths. According to these sites, 32 trans people were "murdered" in 2022 - down from over 50 in 2021. There is no evidence that any of these persons was murdered "because" they were trans. There were maybe 15,000 murders in the US in 2022. While the number of trans people is not known, it probably is the case that there is a lower murder rate of trans victims than in the general population. That trans people are murdered in large numbers is false propaganda advanced by zealous advocacy groups.
DeleteCompare the rate for trans people with that for cis gender, moron.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:42pm, so what is different about the brains of women and men that would cause a boy to feel that he is a girl? How do girls “feel” as opposed to boys?
DeleteIf the distinction to be made is one that is based upon feelings, rather than on biology, what is the difference between men and women when it comes to gender “thinking”?
You have the right to feel as you do, but others have the right to feel differently, however they feel.
DeleteAs one example, a girl who identifies as female is happy when she develops breasts, wants people to see that she is a woman. A girl who does not, feels like her body is betraying her, binds her chest or wears loose clothing and hopes no one will notice. A girl who identifies as female likes women’s clothing. A girl who does not, prefers androgynous (unisex) or male clothing. A girl who thinks of herself as female identifies with, mimics and models herself on women around her and aspires toward their lives. A girl who does not, identifies with male protagonists in books & TV, aspires to men’s roles and admires non-traditional women (Joan of Arc). More than that, a girl who rejects female identity feels wrong, fake, uncomfortable, humiliated when doing girl things, usually from an early age. If she identifies as male, she feels natural, happy, confident and comfortable doing boy things and playing with boys.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:35, then you’re arguing that gender IS based upon biology (anatomy) and to some degree, certain patterns of thinking (though you’ve ventured into gender stereotyping)
DeleteI thought you asked a serious question. Go play gotcha somewhere else.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:02pm, YOU got you. You got yourself via your own contradictory arguments.
DeleteTry considering what you’ve said. It might not make you change your mind, but it may cause you to take one finger out of one ear.
I thought you wanted to understand, but you are playing games, so I’m done.
DeleteYou’re done because you’re simultaneously arguing two opposite things.
Deleteanon 9:06 - I've seen estimates that 1/2 of 1% of the population is "trans." In the US, with a population of about 340,000,000, that would mean we have 17,000,000 trans folk among us. 32 out of 17,000,000 were "murdered" in 2022.. 32 divided by 17,000,000 comes to .0000182, or .0018 percent of trans people were "murdered in 2022. If there were a total of 15,000 murders involving all U.S. victims in 2022, and the U.S. population is 340,000,000, then the percentage of persons in the US in 2022 is .0044% (15,000 divided by 340,000,000 equals .00004424). I admit, these number could be off - I'm not sure that the total of murders in the US in 2022 was 15,000; and I don't know if it is correct that 1/2 of 1% of Americans are "trans" - it could be a higher or lower percentage. And possibly, some number of trans "murder" victims may have been "misgendered." You claim I'm a "moron" without anything to back that up, or in any way showing I'm wrong. When MAGAs reason that way we don't like it; but, at least in your case, you feel perfectly free to make baseless ad hominem attacks.
DeleteAC/ MA,
DeleteI want to make sure I understand what you're writing.
Correct me on these two points, if I'm mistaken.
1. You were able to find a number of transkids who were murdered.
2. You were unable to find any litter boxes for transkids
at schools.
Correct?
anon 8:47 - i sympathize with you and what it must be like to be unable to read, or, seemingly, even to think.
Delete12:18,
DeleteI stand, uncorrected.
I am a bot and I am here to understand intangible human traits. Please feel free to interact with me.
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