THURSDAY, JUNE 22, 2023
...these Naep scores can look very good: Below, you see one of the sets of Naep test scores which helped launch a thousand ships.
If you're prepared to suspend disbelief, these numbers can look very good:
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 216.11
Mississippi: 217.16
For all Naep data, start here.
Say what? Mississippi's fourth graders outperformed their peers from across the nation on the most recent Naep test? They managed to do so despite the many demographic challenges in their economically challenged state?
On its face, a result like that can have the feel of a revolution—possibly even a miracle. And let the word go forth to the nations:
When we perform some thoroughly normal "statistical adjustments," Mississippi's performance on that test looks even better still.
Mississippi has an unusual number of kids who hail from lower income homes. It has more black kids than the average state—and black kids typically underperform white kids and Asian kids on measures of educational achievement.
Despite those demographic challenges, Mississippi's good and decent fourth grade kids outscored their nationwide peers! And here's the way the numbers look when we perform one basic set of statistical adjustments:
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
White kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 226.03
Mississippi: 229.53
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Black kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 198.12
Mississippi: 204.41
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Hispanic kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 204.34
Mississippi: 213.71
Say what? Mississippi's good and decent black fourth graders outscored their peers around the nation by roughly two-thirds of an academic year?
(By a very rough but widely used rule of thumb, ten points on the Naep scales is said to be, very roughly, the equivalent of one academic year.)
Citizens, can we talk? The more we perform these very basic statistical adjustments, the better Mississippi looks! Here you see how the data look when restrict ourselves to fourth graders from lower-income homes:
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Lower-income kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 202.67
Mississippi: 211.74
Mississippi's lower income kids outscored their counterparts nationwide by almost one full year!
And not only that! After another basic adjustment, we're left to marvel at such data as these:
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Lower-income white kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 211.49
Mississippi: 224.45
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Lower-income black kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 193.42
Mississippi: 202.76
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Lower-income Hispanic kids, 2022 Naep
U.S. public schools: 198.70
Mississippi: 210.58
In all three racial / ethnic groups, Mississippi's lower-income kids outscored their nationwide peers by roughly one year—or more!
On their face, statistics like these may have the look of a miracle. After adjusting for Mississippi's unmistakable demographic challenges, it looks like the good and decent kids of that state are outperforming their national peers by very substantial margins.
In our next installment of this report, we're going to show you how Mississippi's fourth graders performed in 2022 on the Naep math test. For today, we're going to take you back to that challenging passage from the Great American Novel.
We posted the passage yesterday. The passage goes like this:
They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.
Tom and Daisy Buchanan were careless people, Fitzgerald famously said. In our view, so are the "education tourists"—journalists and experts alike—who look at pleasing data like these and ask no further questions, turning instead to pleasing Storyline.
For one brief, shining (illusory) moment, those Naep scores from Mississippi can look very good! We can look at those surprising numbers and do what journalists have done for at least the past fifty years:
We can talk about a revolution, even about a "Mississippi miracle." We can talk about "Schools That Wotk," or about The Little Low-Income State That Could.
That's how Tom and Daisy would have done it. In our view, that's very much what the Associated Press, and then Nicholas Kristof and the Times, happily hauled off and did.
Mississippi is full of good, decent kids. By all accounts, it's also full of good, decent people who are working very hard to improve that state's public schools.
That said, for reasons we started to explain before our recent surgery, those numbers strike us as highly illusory. Almost surely, those numbers are highly misleading.
Beyond that, let us add this:
Before we start saying that "we know how to teach reading," we badly need to slow our roll. We need to look at a data set like this:
Average scores, Grade 4 reading
Mississippi, 2022 Naep
White kids: 229.53
Black kids: 204.41
Hispanic kids: 213.71
That black / white "achievement gap" is enormous—and those kids are just in the fourth grade! If you can see a "miracle" there, we'll have whatever you're having.
Tom and Daisy would have walked away at this point. They would have walked away while enjoying the latest happy talk.
In our view, Nicholas Kristof did much the same thing in his essay for the Times. We'd say that the Associated Press, and then the New York Times, were having some fun with Storyline—and were being uncaring and careless.
Mississippi's kids are decent and good. Our major elites, maybe not!
Tomorrow or Saturday: For some perhaps slightly peculiar reason, the Grade 4 math scores in Mississippi were almost as good!
Bob seems to assume that if we accept his premise about the test scores, we will assume that it’s the kids who are cheaters, so we have to bear in mind they are good and decent.
ReplyDeleteNeither journalists nor Kristof nor good decent kids nor their teachers are like fictional characters in a F. Scott Fitzgerald story. Somerby thinks the uniting feature is carelessness, but he has not demonstrated any, no matter how many times he uses the word "illusory". None of the people Somerby tries to tar today have any wealth to retreat into. None of them have done anything wrong, but Somerby works extra extra hard to suggest they have.
ReplyDeleteThe kids in MS improved their scores, but Somerby blames them for not closing the racial gap -- a gap that exists in every state in our country. Did they narrow it at all? Somerby doesn't say. But has any journalist claimed that they did? Did Kristof? Not that I have read. They are talking about improvement from previous tests across all groups, including for kids in poverty. Not racial gap-closing. That would be a miracle but no one has claimed that kind of miracle. And it does not lessen the improvement in scores that the racial gap has not gone away.
Somerby is an ugly person. He is sure there is something wrong but he has not said what, but that doesn't stop him from sliming people who do not deserve that disparagement. Kristof is talking about a real thing -- the test scores did go up in MS. No cheating has been demonstrated by Somerby or anyone else. The schools in MS deserve kudos.
Somerby needs to present evidence first, then draw conclusions. No one draws such nasty conclusions then gets to walk away himself without presenting any evidence, as Somerby has been doing day after day. Perhaps it is Somerby who is retreating into vague references to Tom and Daisy? He is certainly retreating, but not without attacking public schools that managed to do a better job of teaching reading to their kids.
Well said!
DeleteWell said, David? So you agree that Somerby is an ugly person.
DeleteSomerby repeatedly crying MS cheaters kind of reminds me of Trump bleating on and on about his stolen election BS. Where's the proof?
DeleteKristof: Look how much MS improved reading scores and wouldn't it be nice if other states could do that too?
ReplyDeleteSomerby: But they didn't cure the racial gap that exists in all testing, everywhere, even though that wasn't their specific focus! Improvement doesn't count unless black kids are reading as well as white kids on average. If they can't fix that, then even considerable measured progress in reading for all kids, black and white, is "illusory".
One way to help the black kids to catch up is to hold the white kids back. In the MS NAEP scores, the black kids improved, but the white kids did too. Would Somerby have been happier if MS had targeted the reading improvement efforts only at the black and Hispanic kids, not including the white kids? It sounds like it. But don't be fooled. Somerby wouldn't be happy no matter what MS did to improve. He would still be whining about cheating and statistical manipulations, because he clearly is upset when kids do well in public schools, especially disadvantaged schools in states like MS.
Don't let the word "illusory" fool you into thinking Somerby has shown any problem with the MS NAEP scores. He disaggregated the scores and there are still gains, still higher scores than the national average, even for kids below the free school lunch cutoff, and even for the black and Hispanic kids. That "statistical adjustment" (routine or not) didn't change the success touted by Kristof. Somerby has shown no "illusion" today. He promises maybe he will find one tomorrow, but he has been saying that for weeks now without evidence. Why?
ReplyDeleteI suppose he thinks that if he keeps talking about cheating and illusory gains, someone will believe him eventually. But what does anyone gain by making it seem like nothing can help MS? Is Somerby against efforts to improve struggling students in the South? Is he against progress for kids? He never says what he is trying to do with such smears?
Perhaps his heart is two sizes too small. If so, maybe his surgery will help him stop spitting on the success of good decent kids and their teachers? We can only hope.
"Mississippi's kids are decent and good. Our major elites, maybe not!"
ReplyDeleteOur major elites are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If the MS schools improved their reading scores and no one wrote about it or said anything positive, Somerby would call them uncaring because they didn't notice. He would say they don't care about MS kids in the South, especially the black and Hispanic ones.
But the MS schools have improved their reading scores substantially and Somerby is calling Kristof and the AP and the NY Times names because they DID notice and said positive things about the improvement. But Somerby says they still don't care about MS kids or reading, or black and Hispanic kids either (although he almost never talks about the specific problems of Hispanic kids himself).
So Kristof and the elites cannot win no matter what they do. Personally, I am glad that they are pointing out that kids can improve their reading if a state focuses resources and attention on helping them. I would like to see all states throw similar effort at the intransigent problems in their states, whether educational or other sorts of problems. I like to see change in the form of improvement. But then, I am actually a Democrat and a liberal. Somerby clearly is not. Like his Republican fellow travelers, he cannot even articulate an alternative to what MS has done -- he has never told us what he would like to see happen for those good, decent kids anywhere.
Surely he must have some ideas, with his 9 years of teaching experience back in the late 60s and early 70s. Why doesn't he tell us about his thoughts on what might help those good decent kids (the ones Somerby taught have been adults now for quite a while, with perhaps kids of their own)?
Phonics.
ReplyDeletePhonics rhymes with fuck off.
DeleteMaybe in your dialect, but not in mine.
DeleteAccording to Rawstory:
ReplyDelete""More than three decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union, Donald Trump seems determined to resurrect red baiting as a political tactic. Calling his political opponents communists has become a regular feature of Trump’s attacks on the Biden administration, the Democratic Party, and the likes of George Soros," wrote Amherst College political science professor Austin Sarat. "Using this tactic, Trump hopes that a single word can discredit their political views. He wants his followers to fear what the people and institutions he calls communist will do to those who don’t share their world view — including to the former president himself."
Fearmongering that any political opponent was a communist or in league with communists was a useful tool in the era when everyone faced the constant anxiety of nuclear war with the Soviets that could come at any moment — and Trump is hoping it will serve him now."
Republicans seem to invent these sorts of shorthand ways of calling their political opponents names. Along with "groomers" and "communists" some of the trolls here have been calling commenters "McCarthyites" without reference to what that word meant back in the 1950s when McCarthy was engaged in calling Eisenhower, the military and other unlikely people "communists" in order to gain political power. When a conservative uses that name against liberals, they overlook that McCarthy was himself a Republican who targeted liberals as communists in a "red smear" campaign. This is the Republican tendency to accuse others of doing what they themselves have done.
Never mind what the word communist actually means. Never mind that the word doesn't make any sense when applied to Democrats. Never mind that McCarthy himself did what Republicans are now doing, which makes the Republicans the true McCarthyites. Never mind that words with definitions, such as pedophile and groomer, are being applied in situations where that makes no sense either. The point is that these are emotionally charged words and it is the negative emotion that Republicans hope will stick to their political opponents.
On an intellectual level, the accusations are meaningless, but on an emotional level, Republicans hope the affect will stick simply by associating the word communist with Democrat. It doesn't have to make sense if you hear the two together often enough.
And that seems to be Somerby's approach today. His attacks don't have to make sense if he just associates words like cheating and illusory with MS miracle. But this isn't a political situation, is it? Is improvement in reading some sort of political issue? I don't see how it can be. Or is it the elites that Somerby hopes to bring down? But what is his interest in doing that? What does he gain by attacking any of his favorite targets?
"Republicans seem to invent these sorts of shorthand ways of calling their political opponents names."
DeleteTrue. But Democrats are even better at this game. "Racists"... "White Supremacists"... "Homophobes" "Bigots"... " MAGA people"... etc.
David,
DeleteWill you join Rationalist in searching for the Republican voter who cares about something other than bigotry and white supremacy, if we promise we won't miss you?
There are two problems with this equation: (1) Democrats are not reaching into the past to misapply a label, as Republicans are doing with "communist" and "McCarthyite; (2) Democrats are not misapplying a name with their own revised definition, as with "grooming" and "pedophile".
DeleteDemocrats are applying names such as racist, bigot, White Supremacists, homophobe, with the same definitions as when those words were originally created, to apply to the same groups or behaviors. A name such as MAGA is being used to refer to the group that originally applied that name to themselves -- Trump supporters. Trump uses the word himself to apply to the same people as when Democrats use it, and with the same meaning.
I do agree that they are shorthand names. I do not agree that there is the same perversion of meaning in the use of the names.
David,
DeleteRepublican politicians pretending they are "Racists", "White Supremacists", and "Bigots" is nothing more than a GOTV program.
Major Trump advisor Biden told his followers to wear “racist” as a badge of honor years ago. Most, like David, do.
DeleteExactly what has Bob attacked here today?
DeleteThe improvement in MS, for a month now.
DeleteBob has registered a perhaps informed speculation that the testing on Mississippi should be viewed with skepticism. He has now tied this speculation to a host of unrelated things. He has done this now at least a half dozen times, hyping his speculation as if he repeated it enough times it wouldn’t be speculation anymore. Or maybe he is really struggling with his health and doesn’t realize he is doing it.
DeleteAs I pointed out yesterday, NAEP has been criticized because it contains test items that may not be part of the curriculum in all schools nationwide. White children from wealthier families are more likely to have been exposed to such material before taking the test. There are more white children than black children in the higher income group, with broader life experiences and schools with enriched curriculum. It is not only poverty that drags down black scores but the lack of access to preparation for such test items. It may even be that intensive reading instruction comes at a cost, but is needed when parents do not begin early literacy activities in the home.
ReplyDeleteSomerby does not examine any of this because, although he may understand NAEP statistics, he doesn't seem to be able to think about what the numbers mean in terms of kids' lives. Reading is fundamental, but testing may not be completely unbiased when it comes to measuring progress of black kids compared to white kids.
No offense, but I have a feeling you will be pointing it out again tomorrow.
DeleteHow is Bob cheerleading this particular test? He’s pointing out some interpretive problems.
DeleteHe has talked about it previously. Maybe you weren’t here.
DeleteAs near as I can tell, Somerby started talking about the MS NAEP scores on May 23. That makes it exactly a month that he has been discussing this. Does this warrant that much attention?
ReplyDeleteYes, I realize that he has been discussing Al Gore much longer than that, but when does musing become obsession. And in this case, he still hasn't managed to tell us why the improvement is illusory.
It MIGHT merit it if he had something new to say about it. This has become a sort of blogger’s dementia. Kristoff is a dubious character, he might have spent the time going into his career and knack for self promotion. He could have without saying the same thing over and over.
DeleteI like how Bob keeps going over points again and again and elucidates them over time. Probably because he’s not a journalistic flake.
DeleteIt’s illusory because many of these kids basically repeated an early grade. Nothing wrong with that, but their academic history might differ.
DeleteYou didn’t read what mh posted. Retention doesn’t account for the improvement. He posted that info twice but Somerby doesn’t read them. Somerby is wrong.
DeleteHow is whether or not the amount of attention paid to a subject is warranted weighed? Who does the weighing?
DeleteScientists share a respect for data, empirical evidence. When you do a study and take measurements, you don't get to throw out the data if you don't like the results. It seems like Somerby is trying to tell us to disregard the improvements in MS by somehow discrediting the data, so that the results can be set aside. Science doesn't work that way. If a research suspects that data is misleading or has a problem, they need to demonstrate that it is so, not merely claim that the data is flawed and should be set aside.
ReplyDeleteFor years, Somerby has been claiming that the NAEP is a gold standard test. He cannot set aside NAEP results now, because he doesn't believe there has been the improvement shown by that test. Data is data. It is not science at all when people cherrypick the results they like and refuse to accept the results they dislike, as Somerby has been doing.
This is akin to what Trump did after the 2020 election. He didn't like the outcome, so he made a bunch of attacks on it, claiming Biden's win was "illusory" and never did come up with any evidence undermining results anywhere. That might even be his actual point, creating an analogy between election denial and NAEP test denial, but he hasn't said so, and he is preaching to the wrong audience. Readers here already know Trump's election denial was unfounded. Somerby needs to be addressing Republicans, not liberals at a so-called liberal blog.
Good point.
DeleteHe’s not saying that the problem here is with NAEP.
DeleteIt’s with the amateurishness of the interpreters. Their constant sloppiness.
You guys don’t get this?
He is wrong & they aren’t sloppy.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:29pm, if Bob was even cautiously optimistic about the MS test results, you’d see a slew of long-winded posts accusing him of atypical credulousness due to MS being a red state, full of red necks, that Bob deems wholly unaccountable for anything.
DeleteAnonymices are never straight forward. It is an operation. Bob is not a wholly reliable leftwing mouthpiece. You can chalk up everything they type to polemical expediency, all the time.
No, you wouldn’t see folks here criticizing MS scores because ee care about kids.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:58pm, the attack would be on Somerby’s approach. Always.
DeleteSomerby says a lot of stupid things.
DeleteSomerby isn't any kind of "liberal mouthpiece".
DeleteThis is what happens when too many people own guns and lack self-restraint:
ReplyDelete"A woman who didn't notice a traffic light had changed was chased by a gunman who got out of the car behind her, ABC 13 reported.
Security footage shows the man following the woman into a convenience store in Texas and pointing a gun at her multiple times. The man, allegedly 30-year-old Kevin Roth, has since been charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
The woman, who has not been publicly named, said the incident began on Tuesday morning when Roth honked at her when the light at a stoplight turned green. When she honked back, Roth brandished his gun, followed her and rear-ended her.
"That's when I just took off, speeding to a gas station, to a public area, because I had already seen that gun in the car. So I didn't want to just pull over like a regular car accident," the woman said, adding that Roth shouted racial slurs at her."
The second amendment is evil.
DeleteYet another way society will improve when with self driving cars.
DeleteIgnore the “when”, artifact of autocorrect.
DeleteAutocorrect stinks.
DeleteRoth pursued this woman via a car chase. He intentionally rammed her vehicle twice. He several times pointed his gun at her and otherwise tried to take her hostage.
DeleteLaw enforcement made them exchange home addresses as though this was an ordinary auto accident, and he got to
bond out!?
Fix THAT while you’re at it.
Cecelia, are you prepared to infringe his right to keep and bear arms?
DeleteI certainly am.
DeleteWell, the pack of vermin you vote for certainly are not.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:29pm, a majority of people support the laws that prohibit the possession of a firearm by mentally ill people and people charged with particular crimes. A majority in both parties support this.
DeleteYou make unsubstantiated claims and hate others because your mother thought the Mario Brothers encouraged toxic masculinity.
@7:41 = an avid practitioner in the use of unsubstantiated claims with particular emphasis on the hate of others. Gross hypocrisy completes the profile.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:40pm, you’d be more in touch with yourself if you didn’t suffer from the unrequited adoration of bullies in general, your prison guards in particular, and also if they allowed you a mirror.
Delete7:41, as usual, a total non-sequitur to my observation. you're literally full of horseshit if you want to pretend a majority in both political parties are in favor of gun reform.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:24pm, this was hardly a discussion on gun reform. An anonymouse made the usual sort of clueless crack suggesting that there are currently no laws that any way curtail gun ownership because…Republican politicians …duh…
DeleteI understand why you now feel compelled to dress up his snark as being “discussion”, but it’s time you quit covering for your inadequacies and for those of your fellow ideologues.
I’m sorry that your parents loved the poodle best, but move on and seek professional help.
Five Republican members of Congress voted for the “red flag” law.
Deletehttps://www.businessinsider.com/five-house-republican-vote-for-a-nationwide-red-flag-law-2022-6
9:11, yes that is precisely the point I was trying to make that Cecelia keeps tap dancing around. She would prefer to insult rather than honestly acknowledging the indisputable fact that the people she votes for and supports determinedly block the kind of gun reform laws she CLAIMS to support.
Delete"For one brief, shining (illusory) moment..."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the evidence that the scores in MS will not hold but will be brief?
If MS continues to support reading instruction as it has been doing, why wouldn't the NAEP scores be consistent into the future, or even show further improvement?
They might. Good for them. But comparing Miss to other states might not mean too much upon examination.
DeleteComparing them against their own prior scores will.
Delete“Six people who gathered signatures to try to get a Republican congressional candidate on Colorado’s primary ballot in 2022 have been charged by state prosecutors on accusations that they submitted signatures of dead people and signatures that didn’t match voter files,” the Colorado Sun reports."
ReplyDeleteWhenever a case of election fraud is uncovered, it always seems to be Republicans doing it.
That's because you have confirmation bias.
DeleteIt all stems from your fear of death.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/politics/michael-ozzie-myers-election-fraud-prison-sentenced/index.html
In the extremely rare cases of voter fraud, a good percentage of those charged are Republicans.
DeleteOops.
DeleteThat should read, "In the extremely rare cases of voter fraud (hat tip Kris Kobach), a good percentage of those charged are Republicans."
Fonix.
ReplyDelete(US) IPA: /tɹoʊl/, /tɹɑl/
DeleteHow do you type IPA characters?
DeleteWhen the Titanic sank, with 1,517 dead, J Bruce Ismay found a seat on a lifeboat. When the Titan imploded, Richard Stockton Rush III died with his passengers.
ReplyDeleteAnd all black people survived, because they weren’t allowed on the ship.
Delete