TUESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2023
High-end fuzzy thinking: It used to be a standard part of hackish conservative agitprop. We liberals were the "Blame America First" contingent—though we were more often described as a "crowd."
Liberals were routinely said to "blame America first." And then yesterday, Hoo boy! Along came the New York Times, Carlos Lozada, with an opinion column whose peculiar headline says this:
The Trump Indictments Are an Indictment of America
Now we're indicting America first! At one point, Lozada offers this:
LOZADA (8/21/23): One of the Trump era’s recurring questions (a bit quaint now) has been whether Trump lies knowingly or truly believes the untruths he professes. These documents leave little doubt that Trump was told, repeatedly, that his lies were just that, and by officials close to him. David French summarized the latest indictment against Trump in The Times this way: “The Georgia case is about lies. It’s about lying, it’s about conspiring to lie, and it’s about attempting to coax others to lie.”
Much the same could be said of the other Trump indictments and of his impeachments, too. They’re all about his lies and about the country’s willingness to countenance them.
There are individuals in these documents like Rusty Bowers, a former speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, who, when Trump urged him to appoint new presidential electors from the state, responded: “I voted for you. I worked for you. I campaigned for you. I just won’t do anything illegal for you.” But there are many who believe and enable Trump’s lies, whether out of conviction, allegiance or expedience. His overwhelming lead in the early polling for the next Republican nomination and his current tie with Biden in a possible 2024 rematch exist despite—or, at times, because of—those lies.
Set aside the enduring question about whether Trump is so far gone that he actually believes his wild misstatements. Instead, let's puzzle over this peculiar statement by Lozada:
Trump's indictments "are all about his lies and about the country’s willingness to countenance them."
The indictments are all about the country's willingness to believe Trump's misstatements? The country has made that mistake?
Does that include the part of the country which turned out in record numbers to vote against Trump's re-election? Does it include the part of the country which sat on the January 6 committee? The part of the country which supported his two impeachments?
As Lozada notes, there actually are tens of millions of American citizens who actually do believe Trump's various false or unfounded statements, including his claim that the last election was stolen.
Many of those people believe such claims for a fairly obvious reason. Our country now suffers under the yoke of a bifurcated set of highly partisan "news orgs."
If you exclusively follow the red tribe orgs, you're never told about the way Trump's various claims have been debunked. You're never shown the video of the violence which took place at the Capitol building on January 6.
Such people do believe that the last election was stolen! Those people aren't lying when they advance this unsupported claim. They're simply advancing an unfounded claim which they truly believe to be accurate.
(Bowers was too sophisticated to believe Trump's claims, and too honest to pretend otherwise.)
Lozada is a Pulitzer winner. He went to the finest schools. He works for our highest-end national newspaper.
Also, he's a good and decent person—but good lord! What amazingly fuzzy thinkers we humans turn out to be!
That headline is extremely strange. And yes, such things get noticed.
Meh.
ReplyDeleteThe people who say they believe Trump's lies, love him for his bigotry. There's really nothing else to it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteCorbs the adorbs.
DeleteI agree with @3:26
DeleteOh good. I am 326. Thank you. Appreciate it.
DeleteSomerby routinely accuses the blue tribe of being disingenuous about nearly everything, yet heartily takes right wingers’ nonsense at face value and throws notions like logic, critical thinking, and context out the window.
DeleteWhat country does he think this is?
https://youtu.be/XwbqIlj-BiI
There’s no credible evidence that anyone believes Trump’s nonsense, including Trump himself. He’s an obvious con man, a clown, not out to amuse you, but to profit off of you.
Apparently when that Nigerian Prince says to Somerby that he’ll get his money back tenfold, Somerby says “okie dokie”.
It's very confusing and frustrating. It's a paradox.
DeleteIt’s straightforward and frustrating, even so, were one to substitute “confusing” that would not make it paradoxical.
DeleteEven recognizing the fact that right wingers like Somerby offer accusations that are obvious projections and/or confessions, is not a paradox.
Somerby gets off on pretending that the blue tribe are a bunch of phonies, while devoutly hanging on every jot and tittle of right wing talking points.
That’s not a paradox, that’s a lack of integrity, a broken moral compass.
It feels so frustrating.
DeleteIt’s understandable to find Somerby’s lack of integrity frustrating, hang in there.
DeleteSomerby says the problem is our bifurcated media because people who listen to Fox are never told about the debunking of Trump's lies. This is only true if someone only listens to right wing news sources.
ReplyDeleteOn the left, we are told about Trump's lies but we are also told about the lies told by the right wing media (Fox, Newsmax, Alex Jones), way beyond Trump's statements. We are told what Q-Anon believes and we hear about the accusations against Hunter and the outrageous things MTG says each day. That is part of reporting in the mainstream media and on the left. The same is not true of Fox News. They don't report about Biden's speeches or the Republicans who vote twice, or the statements of climate activists about global warming. They only hear right wing propaganda.
If you were a right winger, it would be up to you to seek out alternative sources of news yourself. If you go to college, you are taught critical thinking and how to find info using the internet and the library. You are taught how to cite and quote others, and how to use evidence to evaluate a claim. The problem is that right wingers don't go to college as frequently as those on the left, so they may not have such skills and many not understand the importance of doing the work. They may be more content with just accepting what they are told at face value without checking or questioning it. They are told that the left is satan and that may discourage them from listening to non-right cable news or TV shows or publications. The right wing clearly regards education as brainwashing and does not value libraries and schools as sources of information. Their attitude toward learning is different, more akin to indoctrination than inquiry. The idea of listening to two sides is considered contamination and curiosity is not indulged.
But Somerby is here chiding the left, as if we were responsible for how things are done on the right. We aren't. Somerby calls Lozada a fuzzy thinker when those on the right are the ones who believe Biden is an alien reptile.
In a better time, Somerby would have acknowledged that perhaps Lozada didn't even write that headline. Or he would have recognized the literary device and not taken it so literally.
The majority of our nation does not believe Trump's lies. According to Republican testimony, most of Trump's staff and allies didn't believe his lies either -- they saw them as a way to stay in office and they were willing to help. Then it became a kind of pledge of allegiance, a loyalty oath, to agree that the election was stolen. None of that means they weren't able to engage in basic information processing. We don't know how many of Trump's follwers literally think he won, and how many recognize that saying Trump is president is a way of siding with the right, a dog whistle to their tribe, an article of faith not to be taken literally, just like they have laughed off his boasting and exaggeration.
The nation does not deserve indictment. Trump voters do. Somerby seems to acknowledge that, then slides back into blaming all of humanity, and the mainstream media and all his favorite lefty targets for the crimes and wrongdoing on the right. Somerby is firmly enmeshed in bothsiderism, but the left didn't create Trump, hasn't encouraged him, has done its best to defeat him and will keep doing that as long as necessary. I do not feel indicted by Trump's crimes or the behavior of the right wing. I have done nothing to contribute to it.
Bob would have to include himself in the dumb media he is decrying here. His lazy defenses of Trump are as bad as anything he used to berate as a once serious media critic. Maybe worse.
DeleteI’m old enough to remember when Somerby dismantled Ann Coulter books via doing actual research and investigation.
DeleteThose were the days!
This kind of opinion piece is no doubt why David is asking about lying being a crime -- because David French said so. They would like to shift the accusation to something they can argue against, so French misrepresents the heart of the indictment and Lozada follows. But this is not about lies -- it is about fraud and a coup, Trump's attempt to steal the election and stay in office by depriving those who voted for Biden of their victory. Those are not lies but acts intended to defraud the American people during the 2020 election. Creating sets of fake electors is an act, not a lie or a statement. Ordering Mike Pence to obstruct the vote certification is an act, not a lie. And so on. Framing this as a series of believable lies is the right's first step toward a defense of Trump. And Somerby falls right into line behind it. He should know better, or shame on him.
ReplyDeleteBob Somerby knows better. He's virtue-signaling to the Right, anyway.
DeleteThere is no convincing evidence Trump voters CARE if he is guilty or not. Some simpletons actually do believe what Trump says but the percentage can’t really be pegged with any accuracy. Someone like the comment section’s David in Ca was sent to the crossroads by Trump, David had no illusions about where Trump was taking his Party. He decided to dance with the devil, and it his left him a simpering fool claiming there is no such thing as illegal lying. You wonder if that’s the way he saw himself when he was young.
ReplyDeleteCollective guilt over Trump is not a bizarre concept. It’s hard to say our great dumbing was solely the fault of one group. This excuses what Trump voters have done not a wit. They have the choice of playing the fool or the knave. Obviously, both groups are well represented in this sorry lot.
It is a tragedy that we no longer have a reliable media. The post and the comments give good reasons for disbelieving right wing news. There are also good reasons for disbelieving left and main stream news. These organs reported that Hunter's laptop was a fake. That George Zimmerman committed murder. That there was massive evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. Some of my friends still believe these stories, even though they've been debunked.
ReplyDeleteBTW liberals may be unaware of the right wing slant, but conservatives cannot help being aware of the left wing slant. That's because the mainstream media present the left wing slant on political issues.
Your examples are dubious at best, but also irrelevant. The media only gave credence to right wing bullshit about, say, the Clintons, producing investigations that achieved nothing but a bill for taxpayers. Whatever. Donald Trump’s background was never misrepresented to voters before the 2016 election, it was soft pedaled. YOU knew this when you voted for the crackpot.
Delete"right wing slant",
DeletePride flag killing suspect appears to have a long history of anti-LGBTQ social posts
An X account that appears to have belonged to the deceased suspect has violent anti-LGBTQ messages dating to 2018.
******
What's the right wing slant on this story, David?
David in Cal,
DeleteDo you suppose the corporate-owned media is slanted to the Left, because the Right has shown over and over again that they know absolutely zero about economics?
It is a tragedy when someone is so lonely and starved for attention that they make false claims about who their cousin is.
ReplyDeleteDid Trump not present his exoneration speech, as he promised?
ReplyDeleteI’m confused as to why he’s still indicted.
From Digby:
ReplyDeleteUS relations with China were steady in December 2013 when then-Vice President Joe Biden stepped off Air Force Two in Beijing
with a seemingly unremarkable
companion: his son Hunter.
Days later, Shanghai authorities
approved the formation of an
investment boutique, underwritten
by Chinese government money, that named Hunter Biden as a director and later cut him an ownership share at a discounted price. Roughly four months afterward, he began
earning up to $1 million annually
for sitting on a corporate board
in Ukraine, a country his father
paid special attention to as vice
president. Hunter Biden would go
on to earn millions more from a
brief association with a Chinese
energy-and-finance conglomerate
trying to break into the U.S.
Not from Digby
DeleteFrom Russia With Love
What favor did Biden do for China that would be worth millions? What is the quid pro quo? Without one, this is just a business deal — assuming it has any truth (which I consider unlikely, given you posted this falsely under Digby’s name). Even Hunter has the right to participate in commerce.
DeleteBiden has been thoroughly investigated and they found no dirt, despite trying really really hard.
DeleteThe Russian trolls come out around this time of night because it is the beginning of the work day in Moscow.
DeleteWhat business deal did Hunter Biden do for China and then for Ukraine that would be worth millions? What? Name one thing. What business did he provide them? Name one thing. Why would communist Chinese and notoriously corrupt Ukrainians feel they wanted to make a million dollar business deal with Hunter Biden? Name one reason.
DeleteIt's not illegal for him to sell access to his father for millions.
DeleteYou have to prove he did that, not just accuse. Where’s the evidence he sold access?
DeleteLook Jack, President Biden has not been connected in any way to the millions China and Ukraine funneled into the dozens of shell companies formed by Hunter. It was simply Hunter's business deals and Hunter's business deals alone.
DeleteOh my. I am going to fucking pummel your ass with this one. "You have to prove he did that, not just accuse."
DeleteOh my god. Thank you for the gold. I'm going to ram that shit up your ass every fucking day for the rest of time.
(ie. Pot meet kettle. Get ready. Bitch.)
DeleteThis is what right wingers are like. Violent threats and all.
DeleteWhat business deal did Hunter Biden do for China and then for Ukraine that would be worth millions each?
DeleteAs Democrats, we have to pretend like it makes sense that Hunter created and executed those million dollar business deals independent of his father. Deniable plausibility is really all we have on this one .
DeleteOne of the issues is that Hunter did not make tens of millions from China or Ukraine, and certainly did not make billions like the Trump Crime Family made from China and Saudi Arabia while ostensibly in government positions, a clear crime.
DeleteAnother issue is that Hunter is a lawyer that has worked on the board of many companies, such as Amtrak for example, so it is unremarkable that companies hire Hunter and then pay him.
These false claims attacking Hunter are ignorant and irrelevant, just like the people making up these fake attacks.
Apparently the real issue these sad lost souls have is that Hunter has a bigger penis than their hero Trump (and themselves).
I know you guys feel like losers, but take heart: it can sometimes be heard that it’s not the size of the boat but the motion of the ocean.
5:57 - Perfectly done. Act like it is even possible Hunter self-created those million dollar "business deals" in countries where his father was doing business.
DeleteAnd as a bonus act like his work with domestic companies, such as Amtrak for example, weren't also entirely because of his father.
A+
From Digby:
DeleteMBNA Paid Biden's Son As Biden Backed Bill
A son of Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden was paid an undisclosed amount of money as a consultant by MBNA, the largest employer in Delaware, during the years the senator supported legislation that was promoted by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer groups.
Barack Obama's presidential campaign said Biden helped forge a bipartisan compromise on the measure, which is now law and makes it harder for consumers to obtain bankruptcy protection in the courts.
MBNA's consulting payments to Hunter Biden, first reported by The New York Times, followed his departure in 2001 from the company, where he had been an executive.
Obama opposed the bankruptcy law, enacted in 2005, while Biden supported it.
Thank God that Joe Biden never had anything to do with Amtrak. Otherwise it would look a little fishy! 😉😘😘😉
DeleteEven if you support Joe Biden and vote for him it make sense to at least be real about his corruption. I mean ... those of us that have not turned the Democratic party into our own little religion. But that's a whole other psychological thing we can deal with later.
Delete6:50,
DeleteNo contact signed by the Bidens and a representative of the Republic of China, spelling out that it is a bribe, no corruption. Sorry, those are the rules, per the Roberts Supreme Court.
If you truly are upset by corruption, that's just another reason to vote for Democrats. They won't lard the courts with judges who think corruption isn't real without a signed contract stating it's corruption.
Have a great day.
6:33,
DeleteHoly Tommy Tuberville's insider trading grift, did Digby really write that?
No, Digby didn't write that. Some troll is using Digby's name in his trolling here, to get a rise out of us.
DeleteReferring to Joe Biden "doing business" while he was VP is also part of this asshole's trolling.
This is a good example of the crap that readers must protect themselves against, as trolls and propagandists try to convince people to believe utter garbage.
DeleteSorry I meant to say President Biden was performing diplomacy in the shady counties that deposited millions into Hunter's shell companies.
DeleteNot a reason to not vote for Biden, just being real about his corruption or whatever you want to call it. Nepogrift.
Biden visited 57 countries while VP. That is roughly half of the countries of the world.
DeleteFrom CNN:
"CLAIM
Trump claimed Hunter Biden, the son of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, "didn't have a job until his father became vice president."
EVIDENCE
Hunter Biden had several jobs before Joe Biden became vice president in 2009. Hunter Biden, a lawyer who graduated from Yale Law School, became a partner at a law and lobbying firm in 2001. He stopped lobbying late in 2008, before the election. Before that, he had worked for financial services company MBNA, rising to senior vice president, and for the US Commerce Department. And President George W. Bush appointed him to the board of directors of Amtrak.
At the time Hunter Biden was appointed to the board of Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma Holdings in 2014, he was a lawyer at the firm Boies Schiller Flexner, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University's foreign service program, chairman of the board of World Food Program USA, and chief executive officer and chairman of Rosemont Seneca Advisors, an investment advisory firm. He also served on other boards.
None of this is to say that Hunter Biden's name was not a factor in his career advancement. He himself has acknowledged that he would "probably not" have been asked to be on the Burisma board if he were not a Biden. But Trump's repeated portrayal of him as an unemployed man is inaccurate."
These trolls have provided no evidence of money deposited into shell companies and no evidence of any quid pro quo (in which a country paid money to Hunter and received any favor from Joe Biden). Doing work for foreign countries, even being paid millions of dollars, is not illegal. It is what Trump has done routinely, before and after becoming President.
These trolls are claiming corruption but have shown no proof or evidence of it. Neither has the congressional committee supposedly investigating Hunter Biden. You don't get to accuse someone of grift or corruption without supplying evidence. Such empty accusations are just conspiracy theories concocted by the right wing to tarnish Biden as a candidate for reelection.
I would check your facts. There are bank records. The millions deposited is not in dispute.
DeleteOver 20 million id'd so far. And a sports car.
Delete12:35,
DeleteWhere's the contract, with notarized signatures?
Respectfully,
John G. Roberts, Jr.
12:37,
DeleteThank you for letting us know you "feel" that Hunter Biden is corrupt, despite your lack of proof.
IM me your address, and I'll send you one of those awesome "Trump: Fuck Your Feelings" t-shirts, all the kewl kidz are wearing nowadays.
Hunter did not “make millions in China and Ukraine”, this is just un evidenced garbage you made up because you’re mad and frustrated your penis is small.
DeleteGet a life instead of being creepy.
Biden was paid for work that he did, this is just a basic aspect of how our society functions.
DeleteYou’re jealous of Biden, so you want to frame getting paid for work as some kind of corruption, but your jealousy blinds you to the fact that nobody cares about this issue, primarily because most of us operate under the same condition - we work, we get paid.
On the other hand, Trump tried to take other people’s money to start corrupt businesses that all wound up going bankrupt. There’s your morally (and literally) bankrupt scumbag.
"And you have a lot of censorship in the media so you can avoid it too."
DeleteSelf-censorship, no less. Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito's decades of pay for play. The super-majority of Americans who support abortion, stronger gun control, universal healthcare, etc.
But it's not all censorship. Fossil-fuel industry spokespeople get a voice in any news item about climate change. The views of Republican operatives posing as working-class diners have been amplified for years, as another example.
It is so touching watching all the magats and Russian trolls express their earnest opposition to nepotism and routine advantages offered to children of the rich or famous or powerful.
DeleteNo doubt Trump’s indictments will all be dropped since he gave that press conference that exonerated him.
ReplyDelete2020 Trump: 74 million votes
ReplyDelete2020 Biden: 81 million votes
Jesus Christ, Trump lost to a bumbling old man by over 7 million votes, what a pathetic fucking loser Trump is.
Yes Bob, the country has made the mistake. They have and continue to swallow Trump's bs. If the country hadn't done so, we wouldn't be dealing with him today.
ReplyDeleteYes I'll gladly concede there is a subtle but important difference between the history of a country state politics and the people themselves.
ReplyDeleteBut if we take the narrow framework of who gets to be a politician in America and examine their culture, you will just see a bunch of liars who fashion themselves as free-spirited mavens resisting traditional decadence of English rule etc.