FRIDAY, AUGUST 25, 2023
...Mike Barnicle (pretty much) got it right: Yesterday, all afternoon, we hoped we'd get a chance to show you what Mike Barnicle said.
To our chagrin, the invaluable Internet Archive was a little bit slow on the upload.
Better late than never! Yesterday morning, Barnicle guested on Morning Joe. When he reviewed the previous evening's GOP forum, this is what he said:
BARNICLE (8/24/23): It was a revealing and depressing performance—a two-hour performance.
[...]
My problem with watching the debate was, this debate opened—and Joe alluded to this a couple of moments ago when he was talking about what's happened to the debt and the deficits in this country over the last five or six years, due largely to Donald Trump.
This country has suffered great damage, none more so than the injection into the political bloodstream that the election of 2020 was fixed, was rigged. How do you begin a debate with any of the candidates, Republican or Democrat, without asking them the yes or no question, "Was Joseph R. Biden legitimately elected president of the United States? Yes or no?"
That way, we know where you're going to go on continuing this poison that's in the political culture today—and no one asked that.
For whatever reason, Willie seemed to hurry on from there. Here on our sprawling, leaf-strewn campus, we thought Barnicle had it right.
In reality, there are very few "yes or no questions" in high-end American politics. At that GOP forum, that particular question would have quickly occasioned a large array of highly evasive non-answer pseudo-replies.
In fairness, let's be fair! A moderator who raised that question would have had to supply some high-precision follow-up questions.
On the afternoon before the GOP forum, we ourselves had suggested some such questions. We would have liked to see the participants asked such questions as these:
Do you believe that Donald J. Trump actually won the Wisconsin election? If so, on what basis do you make that assessment?
Do you believe that Donald J. Trump actually won the election in Georgia? On what basis do you say so?
Do you believe that Donald J. Trump received more votes in any one of the disputed states than Joe Biden did? In which of those states do you believe that Trump actually got more votes?
Do you agree with Donald Trump's claim that the last election was stolen, rigged, fixed, a hoax? Can you explain why Donald Trump has never produced some sort of white paper offering systematic evidence for that remarkable claim? Isn't it reasonable to assume that no such evidence actually exists?
Had the moderators asked Barnicle's "yes or no question" that night, they almost surely would have been met with a shipload of fuzzy responses. They would have had to work to establish the parameters of what they were actually asking.
That said, we agree with Barnicle's general take on the current state of our failing political / journalistic discourse. Especially on the Republican side, the former president's remarkable claim lies at the heart of our ongoing political meltdown.
Millions of citizens truly believe Trump's unsupported claim. That claim lies at the heart of our ongoing breakdown. The forum should have started right there.
Donald J. Trump's unsupported claim is the leading element in our current discourse. Barnicle said the "debate" should have started right there.
In our considered view, the Morning Joe guest got it right.
Also even this: A moderator could even have posed a question like this:
Participant A, why is it that you've never issued a clear statement concerning this question? Don't the voters in your party deserve to know what you think?
The answer from most of them would have been along the lines of: we know that there were "irregularities" in the last election, but we don't know if they were enough to tip the election. Of course, there were no irregularities, but then you'd need to go chase that rabbit down the hole.
ReplyDeleteA landslide is to win at least 55% of the vote. No presidential candidate has done that since 1984. Yet Trump has stated ceaselessly that he won the election by a "landslide" and is unable to present any significant evidence for his delusional claim. Republicans should be asked why they would support someone who is either delusional or a willful liar or some combination of the two.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Emmys to the Electoral College, Trump has lied about every contest he entered. This is not emphasized enough.
DeleteWhat percentage of the people who would vote for Trump again actually believe (or care) if he actually won. There are plenty of Fools (actually believe it) or Knaves ( don't care at best). To Bob they are lost little lambs, trying to recover from being abused by MSNBC. So he is a Knave Second Class.
ReplyDeleteUpvote.
Delete"We thought Barnicle had it right" - not a surprise since Barnicle said pretty much exactly what TDH posted a day or 2 ago, almost as if Barnicle is a TDH follower.
ReplyDeleteBarnicle is much more famous than Somerby. I’m sure he thinks his own thoughts.
DeleteSuch as they are
DeleteNot enough "The Republican Party is an amoral dumpster fire" from Barnicle.
ReplyDeleteI don't care what a candidate thinks about the 2020 election. My interest is in what the candidate will do if elected. A new President can't do anything about 2020,regardless of what s/he believes.
ReplyDeleteI want a President who will make the election process more transparent going forward. That's a position a candidate can take regardless of what s/he believes about 2020.
When people choose to participate in a ruse to bolster their election chances, it's a concern.
DeleteBob Somerby and Mike Barnacle explained why this question is important.
DeleteThis is why the country will only survive if idiots like you move somewhere else, David. In your world Republicans are allowed to attack the Capitol, kill cops, and escape without consequences. It’s not a workable system. You are a disgrace. Please leave.
DeleteThe best strategy for that is to ignore him, but some can’t seem to resist the temptation. Let it go, let him go.
DeleteI want a President who will make the election process more transparent going forward.
DeleteDavid, you keep repeating this bullshit. If you really mean it then you would have to vote Democratic up and down the ballot, because the last thing republicans want is a uniform national voting law. They like it just the way it is, where their stranglehold on red states allows them to do whatever the fuck they want to suppress votes and hold onto their undemocratic lock.
Here's a curious recent example:
HOUSTON (AP) — A new Republican-backed Texas law that dictates how elections will be run in the Democratic stronghold of Houston and its surrounding county will take effect as scheduled next month despite a lawsuit seeking to overturn it, the state Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.
Officials in Harris County, which is the state’s most populous, had sought to put the law, which abolishes its elections administrator’s office, on hold. Last week, a judge in Austin temporarily blocked enforcement of the law after calling it unconstitutional. The judge’s order was short-lived, as the state attorney general’s office appealed the decision to the Texas Supreme Court.
Pretty fucking interesting, isn't it, David. How's that for transparency, you fucking fascist prick.
Citi Bike Karen lied. Racism is alive and well.
ReplyDeleteBarnicle says “This country has suffered great damage, none more so than the injection into the political bloodstream that the election of 2020 was fixed”
ReplyDeleteThis is utter nonsense, and no evidence is offered to support this ridiculous claim.
I’m old enough to remember Trump’s mishandling of a public health issue that directly resulted in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
Somerby says he agrees with Barnicle, and says “ the former president's remarkable claim lies at the heart of our ongoing political meltdown.”
Again, nonsense, and no evidence.
Somerby continues “Millions of citizens truly believe Trump's unsupported claim.”
Nonsense, no evidence.
Somerby’s Big Dumb Question in fact has been asked of the major candidates, asked and answered repeatedly.
The answers have not been revelations, unsurprisingly.
Recently, Trump announced he would present at a press conference his case for election fraud, and that it would completely exonerate him; however, the press conference never happened. Trump has done this repeatedly, from Obama’s birth certificate to health plans, you name it, it’s always a con.
And Somerby keeps pretending to fall for it, so he can turn around and con his readers, manufacture ignorance.
And it’s worked! Well, only on his little menagerie of right wing fanboys.
Barnicle/Somerby suggest some kind of political meltdown has occurred since Trump started his Big Lie, in fact, since the Big Lie, the country has been on an upswing trajectory, due to so called Bidenomics.
As a leftist, I’m no Biden fan, but it’s likely he is the best president we have had since FDR. No less a luminary than Heather Cox Richardson says the same thing.
And it’s this, Biden’s small shift away from neoliberalism, THIS is what’s really got Somerby twisted.
Somerby has no knowledge of fields of studies like anthropology, psychology, sociology, and political science; Somerby has a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, thus his musings on politics and society are irrelevant and generally incoherent.
Agree
Deleteanon 4:13, I thought Jan. 6, the whole Trump phenomenon was a harmful to the U.S., I guess not, according to you, the notion that it was is 'ridiculous." Given that TDH's musings on politics and society in general are irrelevant and incoherent, one wonders why you bother to follow him so assiduously.
Delete9:39 You are misreading and misrepresenting the comment in a very basic way.
Delete