Also here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/us/schools-pandemic-defense-department.html
No poor kids, consistent funding, discipline, the same curriculum across schools, two-parent families with social support from the military, health care for all, and child care, no non-English speaking students, and they stayed open longer during covid (as an isolated population). Gaps between minority and white students were much smaller. Only MA comes close.
I didn't see Biden's speech. I hope he will continue to support Israel a week from now, when the plight of Palestinians remains ugly. Israel needs a total victory. A cease fire or armistice is useless to Israel. it just gives Hamas time to prepare the next attack.
Someone can support a nation without supporting their methods. This is a tragedy for all concerned. Israel has had total victories before --did it prevent today's attack? Arguing that only extreme violence can prevent violence makes no sense. We will discover who planned the attack and why, and that will help both Israel and other countries decide what to do next.
Hamas has long been a terrorist organization, of course, and is despicable. That said, and in view of the recent " money is fungible" theme, it should be noted that the Israeli escalation in west bank settlements, widely condemned in Europe and by the US, and escalating Israeli violence against Palestinians, has gone on with uninterrupted flow of US tax dollars, directly, in the billions, and indirectly, via tax breaks given to the charitable funding of such by US billionaires and other US based entities. This has not helped, and the militant regime currently calling the shots in Israel bears some responsibility for the recent deterioration in the stability of that region, as had been predicted. Israel is a wealthy sovereign country that should at this point stand on its own against Hamas and not require any involvement from the US apart from arms sales. This is their fight to wager. Overinvolvement in that conflict by the US, apart from lip service maintaining solidarity, would be an invitation to despicable entities to act out against US citizens as targets.
In this situation, the phrase "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter" applies. The idea that supporting Israel means supporting everything Israel says or does, is specious. The US has tried to exert influence on Israel to reduce atrocities, not encourage them (Trump excepted). The most plausible explanation of this attack that I've seen suggests it is related to US attempts to reconcile Saudi Arabia and Israel, an attempt to disrupt such talks. Your suggestion that the US should become isolationist is unlikely because of our own large Jewish population, the history of the formation of Israel and the 7-days war, and the need to preserve democracy in an area where Sunnis and Shias might otherwise engage in widespread, wholesale war. Israel maintains that balance of power. If Israel were gone, fighting would not stop but would devolve into holy war among Muslim nations.
You need to read more about what is going on, especially some history.
Maybe you should. " Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in the Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." Said Netanyahu to members of his Likud party in March 2019, endorsing the accumulation of wealth by Hamas, large sums of this fungible asset, as they say, coming in from Qatar. There is a nice op-ed in The Times of Israel on this matter of divide and conquer strategy now an abject failure, if you care go educate yourself.
And by the way, why are you being so histrionic as to suggest that Israel could be taken out and gone by this crew? Talk about not understanding the world. Letting Israel take out these misanthropes without our overbearing engagement is not isolationist. No one on this side encouraged the bolstering of Hamas, nor the destabilizing settlements of Israelis on the West bank.
Hamas, it appears, did not need the Iranian money frozen as of yet in a bank account to accumulate assets, having been given the encouragement of Netanyahu as far back as 2019. So it goes for another right wing talking point.
But all this talk about Hamas using fungible assets with the Iranian money that has not exchanged hands has given me an idea. I'm going to park a bunch of money in a bank in Qatar and buy the yacht of my dreams with it, without making a withdrawal. Apparently that's how it works according to the pundits at Red State, and our republican congress. Well almost certainly with that Santos guy.
I wouldn't bet on it, Cecelia. It will never happen from the right in this country. It is already happening in Israel. But not here, because the right in this country is having too much fun blaming the attack on President Biden. They will not tire of that false narrative until at least next November.
The American Right cares deeply for the people of Israel. Just like they cared deeply about Chicago Public schoolchildren when the teachers went on strike there. Now, pull my other finger.
I don't know what the fuck you mean, Cecelia. The U.S. is responding appropriately; Israels are not looking for your advice. The radical right wing politicians and they're enablers in the media are playing bullshit blame games for pure cynical partisan purposes. It's their new BENGHAZI!!!!!!!! They're experts at riding corpses to the election.
Mourning sounds a bit performative to me. Yes, 14 Americans died, but there have been so many other tragic occasions when Somerby said nothing, that I suspect he took the day for other reasons.
Claudia Goldin was awarded this year's Nobel Prize in Economics for her work studying the gender pay gap -- you know, the one Somerby claims is bogus. She was interviewed by NBC:
"One of the most significant findings Goldin uncovered in her research is that differences in pay and labor force participation cannot be attributed to biological differences, but to the division of unpaid caregiving and household labor between heterosexual couples.
“We are never going to have gender equality, or narrow the pay gap, until we have couple’s equity,” Goldin tells CNBC Make It.
In the past, the difference in earnings between men and women could be blamed on educational attainment and occupation choices.
However, the Nobel committee said Goldin has shown that the bulk of the current earnings gap is now between men and women in the same jobs — and that it mostly emerges after the birth of a woman’s first child.
If women can achieve equity within their families, they have a better chance of achieving equality at work, too. That’s because when women are tasked with more of the child care, household chores and elder care, “they have less time to dedicate to their careers and, in doing so, they earn less,” Goldin explains.
True equity for dual-career couples remains “frustratingly out of reach,” Goldin adds, because of “greedy jobs” and parenting norms.
“Greedy jobs” are high-paying, high-pressure jobs that require people to prioritize work over all other aspects of their lives. As Goldin points out, the fact that “greedy jobs” come with a competitive salary leaves people with a difficult choice: Ultimately, one parent needs to be available at home, and this is still most often the woman."
----------------
This implies that the Republican approach to traditional gender roles in marriage will work against achieving equity for women in work. Abortion rights are not the only attack on women's attempts to achieve equity being made by Republicans, including Trump but also the other Republican candidates.
Awarding the Nobel Prize to someone studying women's work and factors contributing to the gender pay gap acknowledges the importance of this issue to our society, not just to individual women wondering why they are being paid less.
"the gender pay gap -- you know, the one Somerby claims is bogus"
I believe that's a false statement. I believe Somerby has questioned the reporting/scholarship concerning the degree of the gap. I do not believe he has claimed that the gender pay gap is bogus.
Somerby is too coy to call someone a liar directly, but what do you think statements like this mean, in an article about fact-checking:
"When Harris says that 80.5% figure represents income or pay for men and women who do "the same work," she is flatly wrong, and it's very hard to believe that she doesn't actually know that."
"According to leading anthropologists, nothing anyone says or does will ever stop Harris, or other modern liberals, from "misspeaking" on this point. "
And here he calls Maddow a liar:
"To this day, Maddow's performance on the gender pay gap is one of the most amazing con jobs in "cable news" history..."
Somerby was wrong about all this, but just as he won't admit being wrong about those MS NAEP scores, he won't budge on women's pay gap either, no matter what some Nobel Prize winning economist says, or the Department of Labor, or Hillary Clinton. And when someone is that stubborn about a triviality of wording (that coincidentally lets him believe women are not getting the short end of a pay gap), to the point of disagreeing with EVERYONE about it, he is making a false statement himself.
"It's a "sacred misstatement," top scholars now say! MONDAY, JUNE 10, 2019"
"On average, to what extent are women being underpaid "for the same work?" On average, are women underpaid for the same work at all?
How much are women underpaid? It's very hard to establish that point, but no specialist actually thinks that women are paid 80 cents on the dollar as compared to men for the same work. As far as we know, no one thinks the number is anywhere close to that."
He needs to read Gilpin's book to see why his simplistic comparisons and facile dismissal of the gender pay gap is mistaken, so mistaken as to be sexist and misogynist. And the emotion with which he challenges women over this underlines that this is personal to him. Just as it is personal to women who have to do the work, for less pay in the same fields (sometimes) or for less pay with a slightly different job title (other times) or at home for no pay whatsoever, which prevents them from earning anything, having a retirement pension, having something to live on after a divorce, and makes them into household slaves for love.
Working from Memory (I believe we can all use the archives, I don't know how well it's search engine works) I would say Dogface is correct, and TDH's arguments about the wage gap go back long before Vice President Harris was on the National Scene. Someby said statements about the gap were made ignoring basic statistical factors, like how many men and women were in the work place. He never said women were not, or could not be treated unfairly in terms of salary in the workplace.
And neither did I. I said that Somerby accused Harris of lying about statistics she got from the Department of Labor, Maddow too. The quotes are cited above with dates and URLs to Somerby's blog. No need to work from memory when you can read what he said.
Goldin explores the reasons for that discrimination and the factors NOW keeping women from competing equally for jobs and wages. One of the main ones, she has found, is the inequality in the home, where women may hold a full time job and yet still do the majority of the housekeeping and child care and elder case at home, having in essence two jobs while their husbands have one. And Goldin also blames the unreasonable expectations of "greedy employers" in professional career tracks, for 60-80 hrs of work. How do women put in such time when they must also do the bulk of at-home work. And the gap starts with child-bearing because that is when women's at home workload dramatically increases. And yes, the requirement that women do most of the work at home IS a form of discrimination related to employment, since at home work is unpaid, contributes to no pension, and gives women a decision-making disadvantage when men consider that only the person who pays the bills should make final decisions affecting a marriage.
Somerby ignores all of this when he makes narrow claims about discrimination and a gender pay gap. It is both sexist and misogynist to do that. And when Somerby calls various women liars because they understand the complete problem for women in the workplace, he is an asshole.
Those of you defending him for this are either majorly ignorant or part of the he-man woman-hater's club along with Somerby.
Read Goldin's book. She won a Nobel Prize for her work and some asshole here calls her a "chick". Why? Because of his own animosity toward women.
Well, WHY would you say that? After all, you are not an inherently evil person for disagreeing with yourself. Less blather, more facts would support your position, even against a, yes, dubious character like Bob.
The issue of the gender pay gap has long been since settled by none other than DIC's favorite libertarian economist, the esteemed Thomas Sowell, who through fastidious study long predating the work of this chick, put forth, in one of his fifty odd books no less, that the pay gap was due to market forces that judged hourly wage differences to be the result of work inefficiencies inherent to the weaker sex. By "weaker", I am not paraphrasing him, but assuming, based on his ever so logical conclusion, that they have to be.
It is one thing to pull a statement out of your ass and another to do the research to test your idea and support your conclusions. That is why Goldin got a Nobel Prize for decades of research and Sowell did not. Your idea that a statement is correct because you agree with it is bullshit. Even in economics, there are standards of evidence and proof. For Goldin to have received a Nobel Prize suggests there is some consensus among economists in support of her work.
Women are also nearly 50% of gamers but are not represented equally in terms of the characters in the games. The female characters are also more likely to be sexualized or nude (25% compared to 3% for men). Trying to argue that these are just market forces doesn't make any sense in contexts where there is no reason why there should be any disparity.
Somerby doesn't like women much. But he especially doesn't want to give up any male advantage to women. That is at the heart of misogyny -- the system is rigged in favor of men and they like it that way, so they aren't inclined to change anything. Same way racism works.
The support for my comment about Somerby's attitude toward women is his archives. If you haven't noticed, you are clueless and tone deaf. Go back and read the column a few days ago about Cassidy Hutchinson's fashions on her book tour. Somerby treats a professor with a Distinguished Chair appointment as if she were Barbie. Female journalists are his main target, with gay and black journalists second, and white male journalists last. And there are the things he said about Chanel Miller (if she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have gotten drunk) and Stormy Daniels who he has called a grifter and a liar, and Rachel Maddow (who stuff money down her pants, Somerby says), and Michelle Rhee and so many others.
Where do you imagine I was hiding?
I'm not going to look any of that up because anyone who has been here a while already knows what he has said, over and over.
I make a facetious commentary about a ridiculous conclusion by DIC's favorite libertarian economist, and the easily triggered concrete thinkers come out of the woodwork. Quite amusing.
I post on this site regularly enough. Don't over extend yourself here. As in "no on knows". How about I make a disclaimer in the future for you, but that would require you to identify yourself in some way. I will try to accommodate you, but you'll have to make that commitment.
That's on them. Whoever they are. I am beginning to appreciate the aggravation Cecelia has with, well pardon me but, the anonymous. Not to be overly critical as I have been one myself on occasion.
Yes, the lack of nyms makes it extra hard to direct your aggressive feelings toward someone. And what is the point of just discussing issues if you cannot be nasty to others?
The reputation of your nym isn't going to protect you from nasty trolls here, and once they start piling on, you might welcome the chance to post as a different anonymous person. Cecelia has tried to tarnish the nym "anonymous" for everyone, but in that respect it is no different than the nym Corby or anyone else here. Dogface is kind of nasty to begin with -- why would anyone call themselves that if they were worried about their reputation? People are not dogs.
Ok. I am genuinely curious. How do you think someone will crash your security if you make up a name for your entries, not Corby? Maybe disclosing that You are not Corby is not such a good thing since a hacker can cross Corby off his list of possible identities for you, leading him one step closer. So don't disclose anyone one else who you are not. They will be coming.
"Pay gap" as different wage for doing the same work is bullshit, and Somerby did assert that it is.
From what I gather, the lady glamorized recently by the conscientious/cooperative Swedes does not dispute that. She merely alleges that women (on average) do not pursue careers as vigorously as men do, because they concentrate more on childcare and homemaking. Which this lady considers a bad thing.
Of course others, probably a majority of men and women, believe that it's perfectly natural. YMMV.
“Of course others, probably a majority of men and women, believe that it's perfectly natural. YMMV.”
Anonymouse 5:12pm, I believe it’s perfectly natural, but preventable via birth control and planning.
I wonder how the awful plight of motherhood is going to be framed when the language police mandate in public discussion weirdness such as “persons with uteruses” as being burdened by icky babies and the “women” without uteruses shoot past that other kind of woman like a rocket.
"I believe it’s perfectly natural, but preventable via birth control and planning."
I wouldn't frame it as "preventable". It's simply that some women (a minority of them) prioritize their career over family, and that's fine. It's their choice. It's against the law to discriminate against them in hiring and promotion. So, I don't see any problem.
Anonymouse 10:33am, unless they’re wearing a sign around their necks, doing drag-king story hours, or proudly showing minors their surgical scar, I couldn’t.
You’re going to have to find another scenario to hang on your dissenters.
Why make rules about people if you cannot even tell what their condition is? The invasive nature of that is apparent even to you. Why not just leave people alone to live their lives?
This is how Republicans waste time in the House of Representatives:
"10/10/2023 H. Res. 769 Expressing support for the designation of October 10, 2023 as "Real Women's Day". OFFICIAL TITLE Expressing support for the designation of October 10, 2023 as "Real Women's Day". SPONSOR Rep. McClain, Lisa C. [R-MI-9]"
Who gets to define what a real woman is? If it requires a uterus, then those with hysterectomies are out of luck. Will there be inspections? Having a uterus needs to be confirmed by x-ray. Or maybe you should just require real women to wear lipstick and high heels. Oh, wait, men can do that too. So how will you define it? Sugar, honey, baby doll? How much time will your team waste on this?
Why should this matter to anyone except the individual involved? Panty sniffers like you make me sick.
Anonymouse 12:01pm, no one need sniff anyone’s panties to ascertain that you folks are going to have a hell of a time ahead off you in redefining your victim class.
From June 28, 1970, and the world is still turning and life has gone on without anyone caring about this until the Republicans started looking around for Culture War issues.
Anonymouse 4:07pm, there is nothing new under the sun, but the demand that everyone must now bow and legally acquiesce to a gender based solely on self-declaration.
Yesterday, BLMChicago tweeted their solidarity with Hamas by posting a rendition of a silhouette of a man on a hang-glider, as used by Hamas to enter Israel and murder, kidnap, and torture adults, children, and infants.
Today they have “apologized” by taking down the image and saying this isn’t their proudest moment.
I’ll bet. I’m sure there are many wealthy Jews who were sympathetic contributors to the BLM cause.
Yes. I don't remember jews antagonizing BLM by responding "All Lives Matter". That was America's right-wing who did that. Fortunately, Central American refugees heard them loud and clear, exposing one of the greatest "own goals" in the history of being an asshole Right-winger.
Anonymouse 12:34pm, Central American refugees can’t legally immigrate into the U.S. and apply for various legal statuses because conservative said “All Lives Matter”?
Making it much more difficult to immigrate legally, is what did that. Everyone should be calling their Congressional representatives and ask them what they are doing to make legal immigration easier. BTW, I recommend this to "the Others" all the time. From my experience, it doesn't seem as if the illegal part is what offends them as much as they make it seem.
You don't accept their apology Cecelia? What a shock you would want to jump on this as a talking point for the Trump party. Would you rather bring back Jerod and see if he could eke out another two billion from the situtration?
Making legal immigration easier, will reduce illegal immigration. I believe legal immigration being easier will be great for the country, because you hardly hear anyone complaining about immigration. They only seem to care if immigrants are here illegally. After all, this country isn't made-up of a bunch of bigots who hate immigration. Pretty much all of us are immigrants, or are descended from them. If you think I'm mistaken, show me your work.
In my view, illegal immigration should be zero. Crossing the border without authorization is a crime. Overstaying visa is an administrative violation of immigration laws, resulting in deportation.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with legal immigration. Like shoplifting has nothing to do with buying stuff.
People who object to legal immigration need to vote for those who promise to reduce legal immigration. Others will vote for those who promise to increase legal immigration or to leave it as it is now. In the end, a compromise will emerge.
In my view, illegal immigration should be zero because all immigration should be legal. Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Yes, and I don't understand Cecelia's response to it. Beinart discusses pain and suffering and Cecelia says yay. Beinart says the problem is beyond blaming others and Cecelia immediately points a finger. Did you read the interview?
Beinart is simply on the side of the Palestinians. He blames Israeli mistreatment for the Palestinians barbaric behavior. From what I've read, the Palestinians train the children to hate Jews and hate Israel. They are committed to the destruction of Israel. Nothing Israel can do will change that.
It's further complicated by the presumed fact that Iran is substantially funding and guiding these monsters.
I don't know what Israel should do, assuming I'm right about the situation. But, simply ending this conflict with a cease fire surely won't work. It would just give them to re-arm and mount and even more severe attack.
David, Can you post the link to the place where you read "the Palestinians train their children to hate Jews and hate Israel"? You might want to stop presuming Iran was behind the attacks. "The U.S. has intelligence indicating senior Iranian officials were surprised by the Hamas-led terror attack on Israel, according to multiple American officials familiar with the matter, preliminarily suggesting Tehran was not directly involved the launch of the deadly Oct. 7 assault." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-israel-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-israel/
Biden is doing his best with an opposition party who now must be challenged on the certificate they got upon graduating kidergarten. I tend to agree with the Israeli journalists who are crushing the odious Netanyahu, who, with his support of Trump, attempted to bring crude authoritarianism to the U.S. It was his job to meet with our President, to sway him as he saw fit. Not to stand before the opposition Congress and debase Obama for fools who were getting ready to make a degenerate mental case their hero. No wonder Israel's strongman turned out to be not so strong. It went along with his lack of decency and wisdom.
As I remember, Hamas was established and funded by Zionists in the first place. To weaken their secular opposition, the PLO.
PLO was (and still is) perceived as a legitimate political organization. Hamas is perceived (at least by the West) as an Islamic terrorist organizations. Fighting Hamas makes Zionists look righteous (at least in the eyes of the Westerners). So, what's happening now is exactly what they wanted. They succeeded. As usual.
Perhaps?
ReplyDeleteThe schools for US military kids are doing better than the schools of any state.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.eschatonblog.com/2023/10/amazing-stuff.html?m=1
Also here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/us/schools-pandemic-defense-department.html
DeleteNo poor kids, consistent funding, discipline, the same curriculum across schools, two-parent families with social support from the military, health care for all, and child care, no non-English speaking students, and they stayed open longer during covid (as an isolated population). Gaps between minority and white students were much smaller. Only MA comes close.
I hope you're okay Bob. You've done great work, and I really appreciate your efforts and insight.
ReplyDeleteBob, if you didn’t watch, Biden did a very good job with his address on Israel today.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see Biden's speech. I hope he will continue to support Israel a week from now, when the plight of Palestinians remains ugly. Israel needs a total victory. A cease fire or armistice is useless to Israel. it just gives Hamas time to prepare the next attack.
DeleteSomeone can support a nation without supporting their methods. This is a tragedy for all concerned. Israel has had total victories before --did it prevent today's attack? Arguing that only extreme violence can prevent violence makes no sense. We will discover who planned the attack and why, and that will help both Israel and other countries decide what to do next.
DeleteHe was very forceful and obviously moved by the carnage.
DeleteHamas has long been a terrorist organization, of course, and is despicable. That said, and in view of the recent " money is fungible" theme, it should be noted that the Israeli escalation in west bank settlements, widely condemned in Europe and by the US, and escalating Israeli violence against Palestinians, has gone on with uninterrupted flow of US tax dollars, directly, in the billions, and indirectly, via tax breaks given to the charitable funding of such by US billionaires and other US based entities. This has not helped, and the militant regime currently calling the shots in Israel bears some responsibility for the recent deterioration in the stability of that region, as had been predicted. Israel is a wealthy sovereign country that should at this point stand on its own against Hamas and not require any involvement from the US apart from arms sales. This is their fight to wager. Overinvolvement in that conflict by the US, apart from lip service maintaining solidarity, would be an invitation to despicable entities to act out against US citizens as targets.
DeleteIn this situation, the phrase "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter" applies. The idea that supporting Israel means supporting everything Israel says or does, is specious. The US has tried to exert influence on Israel to reduce atrocities, not encourage them (Trump excepted). The most plausible explanation of this attack that I've seen suggests it is related to US attempts to reconcile Saudi Arabia and Israel, an attempt to disrupt such talks. Your suggestion that the US should become isolationist is unlikely because of our own large Jewish population, the history of the formation of Israel and the 7-days war, and the need to preserve democracy in an area where Sunnis and Shias might otherwise engage in widespread, wholesale war. Israel maintains that balance of power. If Israel were gone, fighting would not stop but would devolve into holy war among Muslim nations.
DeleteYou need to read more about what is going on, especially some history.
Maybe you should.
Delete" Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in the Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." Said Netanyahu to members of his Likud party in March 2019, endorsing the accumulation of wealth by Hamas, large sums of this fungible asset, as they say, coming in from Qatar.
There is a nice op-ed in The Times of Israel on this matter of divide and conquer strategy now an abject failure, if you care go educate yourself.
Nonresponsive
DeleteAnd by the way, why are you being so histrionic as to suggest that Israel could be taken out and gone by this crew? Talk about not understanding the world. Letting Israel take out these misanthropes without our overbearing engagement is not isolationist. No one on this side encouraged the bolstering of Hamas, nor the destabilizing settlements of Israelis on the West bank.
DeleteNever realized David in Cal is that kind of dumb.
DeleteI am replying to 9:09, not DIC.
DeleteHamas, it appears, did not need the Iranian money frozen as of yet in a bank account to accumulate assets, having been given the encouragement of Netanyahu as far back as 2019. So it goes for another right wing talking point.
DeleteBut all this talk about Hamas using fungible assets with the Iranian money that has not exchanged hands has given me an idea. I'm going to park a bunch of money in a bank in Qatar and buy the yacht of my dreams with it, without making a withdrawal. Apparently that's how it works according to the pundits at Red State, and our republican congress. Well almost certainly with that Santos guy.
DeleteThe silence from the right with regard to the catastrophic failure by the Netanyahu government to protect Israel is so telling.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:17am, oh, that day is coming.
DeleteGet a sense of timing.
I wouldn't bet on it, Cecelia. It will never happen from the right in this country. It is already happening in Israel. But not here, because the right in this country is having too much fun blaming the attack on President Biden. They will not tire of that false narrative until at least next November.
DeleteThe American Right cares deeply for the people of Israel. Just like they cared deeply about Chicago Public schoolchildren when the teachers went on strike there.
DeleteNow, pull my other finger.
Anonymouse 1:35pm, he is their president. I offer no advice to them.
DeleteHow and when the U.S. responds to the ongoing matter is within our purview.
I don't know what the fuck you mean, Cecelia. The U.S. is responding appropriately; Israels are not looking for your advice. The radical right wing politicians and they're enablers in the media are playing bullshit blame games for pure cynical partisan purposes. It's their new BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!
DeleteThey're experts at riding corpses to the election.
Anonymouse 3:37pm, the U.S. is responding appropriately to this affront to Israelis and U.S. hostages.
DeleteIsrael is responding appropriately to this act of war. .
Republicans are arguing for an appropriate response and future stance toward Iraq. Democrats differ with them.
You have two out of three things that, I assume, are going according to your druthers and the last will be worked out politically.
Buck up, buttercup.
Iran.
DeleteWars are between soverein nations. Gaza is part of Israel. These are terrorists.
DeleteHere is Trump's reaction to the attack on Israel. Digby says be glad Biden is president:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2023/10/09/just-be-glad-we-have-the-president-we-have/
Mourning sounds a bit performative to me. Yes, 14 Americans died, but there have been so many other tragic occasions when Somerby said nothing, that I suspect he took the day for other reasons.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you suppose your suspicions about Somerby to be of any interest to anyone?
DeleteGiven that others have expressed sympathy to Somerby, it does appear to be of interest to them.
DeleteClaudia Goldin was awarded this year's Nobel Prize in Economics for her work studying the gender pay gap -- you know, the one Somerby claims is bogus. She was interviewed by NBC:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/10/nobel-prize-winner-claudia-goldin-the-gender-pay-gap-will-never-close-unless-this-happens.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWe%20are%20never%20going%20to,educational%20attainment%20and%20occupation%20choices.
"One of the most significant findings Goldin uncovered in her research is that differences in pay and labor force participation cannot be attributed to biological differences, but to the division of unpaid caregiving and household labor between heterosexual couples.
“We are never going to have gender equality, or narrow the pay gap, until we have couple’s equity,” Goldin tells CNBC Make It.
In the past, the difference in earnings between men and women could be blamed on educational attainment and occupation choices.
However, the Nobel committee said Goldin has shown that the bulk of the current earnings gap is now between men and women in the same jobs — and that it mostly emerges after the birth of a woman’s first child.
If women can achieve equity within their families, they have a better chance of achieving equality at work, too. That’s because when women are tasked with more of the child care, household chores and elder care, “they have less time to dedicate to their careers and, in doing so, they earn less,” Goldin explains.
True equity for dual-career couples remains “frustratingly out of reach,” Goldin adds, because of “greedy jobs” and parenting norms.
“Greedy jobs” are high-paying, high-pressure jobs that require people to prioritize work over all other aspects of their lives. As Goldin points out, the fact that “greedy jobs” come with a competitive salary leaves people with a difficult choice: Ultimately, one parent needs to be available at home, and this is still most often the woman."
----------------
This implies that the Republican approach to traditional gender roles in marriage will work against achieving equity for women in work. Abortion rights are not the only attack on women's attempts to achieve equity being made by Republicans, including Trump but also the other Republican candidates.
Awarding the Nobel Prize to someone studying women's work and factors contributing to the gender pay gap acknowledges the importance of this issue to our society, not just to individual women wondering why they are being paid less.
"the gender pay gap -- you know, the one Somerby claims is bogus"
ReplyDeleteI believe that's a false statement. I believe Somerby has questioned the reporting/scholarship concerning the degree of the gap. I do not believe he has claimed that the gender pay gap is bogus.
When Kamala Harris mentioned it (quoting Dept of Labor stats), Somerby said she was lying.
DeleteCitation so we can check your work?
DeleteAnd what you say makes me question it even more. As anyone who has read him knows, Somerby doesn’t tend to accuse people of “lying.”
DeleteSomerby is too coy to call someone a liar directly, but what do you think statements like this mean, in an article about fact-checking:
Delete"When Harris says that 80.5% figure represents income or pay for men and women who do "the same work," she is flatly wrong, and it's very hard to believe that she doesn't actually know that."
"According to leading anthropologists, nothing anyone says or does will ever stop Harris, or other modern liberals, from "misspeaking" on this point. "
And here he calls Maddow a liar:
"To this day, Maddow's performance on the gender pay gap is one of the most amazing con jobs in "cable news" history..."
Somerby was wrong about all this, but just as he won't admit being wrong about those MS NAEP scores, he won't budge on women's pay gap either, no matter what some Nobel Prize winning economist says, or the Department of Labor, or Hillary Clinton. And when someone is that stubborn about a triviality of wording (that coincidentally lets him believe women are not getting the short end of a pay gap), to the point of disagreeing with EVERYONE about it, he is making a false statement himself.
"It's a "sacred misstatement," top scholars now say!
MONDAY, JUNE 10, 2019"
http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2019/06/its-sacred-misstatement-top-scholars.html
http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2019/05/saving-candidate-harris-politifact_29.html
Somerby said this:
"On average, to what extent are women being underpaid "for the same work?" On average, are women underpaid for the same work at all?
How much are women underpaid? It's very hard to establish that point, but no specialist actually thinks that women are paid 80 cents on the dollar as compared to men for the same work. As far as we know, no one thinks the number is anywhere close to that."
He needs to read Gilpin's book to see why his simplistic comparisons and facile dismissal of the gender pay gap is mistaken, so mistaken as to be sexist and misogynist. And the emotion with which he challenges women over this underlines that this is personal to him. Just as it is personal to women who have to do the work, for less pay in the same fields (sometimes) or for less pay with a slightly different job title (other times) or at home for no pay whatsoever, which prevents them from earning anything, having a retirement pension, having something to live on after a divorce, and makes them into household slaves for love.
Sorry, got the name wrong -- it is Claudia Goldin.
DeleteYou lied when you said "Somerby said she was lying.":
DeleteExcessively literal. What do you think "deliberate misstatement" means, even to Somerby?
DeleteWorking from Memory (I believe we can all use the archives, I don't know how well it's search engine works) I would say Dogface is correct, and TDH's arguments about the wage gap go back long before Vice President Harris was on the National Scene. Someby said statements about the gap were made ignoring basic statistical factors, like how many men and women were in the work place. He never said women were not, or could not be treated unfairly in terms of salary in the workplace.
DeleteAnd neither did I. I said that Somerby accused Harris of lying about statistics she got from the Department of Labor, Maddow too. The quotes are cited above with dates and URLs to Somerby's blog. No need to work from memory when you can read what he said.
DeleteGoldin explores the reasons for that discrimination and the factors NOW keeping women from competing equally for jobs and wages. One of the main ones, she has found, is the inequality in the home, where women may hold a full time job and yet still do the majority of the housekeeping and child care and elder case at home, having in essence two jobs while their husbands have one. And Goldin also blames the unreasonable expectations of "greedy employers" in professional career tracks, for 60-80 hrs of work. How do women put in such time when they must also do the bulk of at-home work. And the gap starts with child-bearing because that is when women's at home workload dramatically increases. And yes, the requirement that women do most of the work at home IS a form of discrimination related to employment, since at home work is unpaid, contributes to no pension, and gives women a decision-making disadvantage when men consider that only the person who pays the bills should make final decisions affecting a marriage.
Somerby ignores all of this when he makes narrow claims about discrimination and a gender pay gap. It is both sexist and misogynist to do that. And when Somerby calls various women liars because they understand the complete problem for women in the workplace, he is an asshole.
Those of you defending him for this are either majorly ignorant or part of the he-man woman-hater's club along with Somerby.
Read Goldin's book. She won a Nobel Prize for her work and some asshole here calls her a "chick". Why? Because of his own animosity toward women.
Well, WHY would you say that? After all, you are not an inherently evil person for disagreeing with yourself. Less blather, more facts would support your position, even against a, yes, dubious character like Bob.
Delete12:22: You write this AFTER I explained that my commentary was a facetious piece criticizing Thomas Sowell. What a dumbass.
DeleteIncidentally, technically speaking there is no such thing as a Nobel Prize in Economics. There is no such category.
DeleteThe issue of the gender pay gap has long been since settled by none other than DIC's favorite libertarian economist, the esteemed Thomas Sowell, who through fastidious study long predating the work of this chick, put forth, in one of his fifty odd books no less, that the pay gap was due to market forces that judged hourly wage differences to be the result of work inefficiencies inherent to the weaker sex. By "weaker", I am not paraphrasing him, but assuming, based on his ever so logical conclusion, that they have to be.
ReplyDeleteIt is one thing to pull a statement out of your ass and another to do the research to test your idea and support your conclusions. That is why Goldin got a Nobel Prize for decades of research and Sowell did not. Your idea that a statement is correct because you agree with it is bullshit. Even in economics, there are standards of evidence and proof. For Goldin to have received a Nobel Prize suggests there is some consensus among economists in support of her work.
DeleteLook up facetious, please. Wow.
DeleteIncidentally there is no Nobel Prize in Economics.
DeleteWomen are also nearly 50% of gamers but are not represented equally in terms of the characters in the games. The female characters are also more likely to be sexualized or nude (25% compared to 3% for men). Trying to argue that these are just market forces doesn't make any sense in contexts where there is no reason why there should be any disparity.
ReplyDeleteSomerby doesn't like women much. But he especially doesn't want to give up any male advantage to women. That is at the heart of misogyny -- the system is rigged in favor of men and they like it that way, so they aren't inclined to change anything. Same way racism works.
https://seejane.org/research-informs-empowers/changing-the-narrative-why-representation-in-video-games-matters/
DeleteBuck games and gamers.
Delete"Somerby doesn't like women much. But he especially doesn't want to give up any male advantage to women."
DeleteTypical Hit-and Hide Anonymouse. Make an unsupported hit, then hide among the others.
The support for my comment about Somerby's attitude toward women is his archives. If you haven't noticed, you are clueless and tone deaf. Go back and read the column a few days ago about Cassidy Hutchinson's fashions on her book tour. Somerby treats a professor with a Distinguished Chair appointment as if she were Barbie. Female journalists are his main target, with gay and black journalists second, and white male journalists last. And there are the things he said about Chanel Miller (if she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have gotten drunk) and Stormy Daniels who he has called a grifter and a liar, and Rachel Maddow (who stuff money down her pants, Somerby says), and Michelle Rhee and so many others.
DeleteWhere do you imagine I was hiding?
I'm not going to look any of that up because anyone who has been here a while already knows what he has said, over and over.
I make a facetious commentary about a ridiculous conclusion by DIC's favorite libertarian economist, and the easily triggered concrete thinkers come out of the woodwork. Quite amusing.
ReplyDeleteNo one knows you well enough to know when you’re being facetious. Signal your intention or risk being taken seriously.
DeleteI post on this site regularly enough. Don't over extend yourself here. As in "no on knows". How about I make a disclaimer in the future for you, but that would require you to identify yourself in some way. I will try to accommodate you, but you'll have to make that commitment.
DeleteCome to think of it, that last comment was facetious, so pardon me ex post facto.
DeleteIf you intended your comment as facetiousness, the person who responded obviously missed it. That speaks for itself.
DeleteThat's on them. Whoever they are. I am beginning to appreciate the aggravation Cecelia has with, well pardon me but, the anonymous. Not to be overly critical as I have been one myself on occasion.
DeleteYes, the lack of nyms makes it extra hard to direct your aggressive feelings toward someone. And what is the point of just discussing issues if you cannot be nasty to others?
DeleteIt is my belief that we tend to be less nasty if we have to protect the reputation of our nym.
DeleteThe reputation of your nym isn't going to protect you from nasty trolls here, and once they start piling on, you might welcome the chance to post as a different anonymous person. Cecelia has tried to tarnish the nym "anonymous" for everyone, but in that respect it is no different than the nym Corby or anyone else here. Dogface is kind of nasty to begin with -- why would anyone call themselves that if they were worried about their reputation? People are not dogs.
DeleteDo you know what "dogface" means?
DeleteI post anonymously to maintain security.
ReplyDeleteI am not Corby.
We're all anonymous, whether we use nyms or not.
DeleteOk. I am genuinely curious. How do you think someone will crash your security if you make up a name for your entries, not Corby? Maybe disclosing that You are not Corby is not such a good thing since a hacker can cross Corby off his list of possible identities for you, leading him one step closer. So don't disclose anyone one else who you are not. They will be coming.
ReplyDelete"Pay gap" as different wage for doing the same work is bullshit, and Somerby did assert that it is.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I gather, the lady glamorized recently by the conscientious/cooperative Swedes does not dispute that. She merely alleges that women (on average) do not pursue careers as vigorously as men do, because they concentrate more on childcare and homemaking. Which this lady considers a bad thing.
Of course others, probably a majority of men and women, believe that it's perfectly natural. YMMV.
“Of course others, probably a majority of men and women, believe that it's perfectly natural. YMMV.”
DeleteAnonymouse 5:12pm, I believe it’s perfectly natural, but preventable via birth control and planning.
I wonder how the awful plight of motherhood is going to be framed when the language police mandate in public discussion weirdness such as “persons with uteruses” as being burdened by icky babies and the “women” without uteruses shoot past that other kind of woman like a rocket.
"I believe it’s perfectly natural, but preventable via birth control and planning."
DeleteI wouldn't frame it as "preventable". It's simply that some women (a minority of them) prioritize their career over family, and that's fine. It's their choice. It's against the law to discriminate against them in hiring and promotion. So, I don't see any problem.
It’s my god-given right to discriminate against anyone.
DeleteI am Corby, but not the Corby well-known in TDH comments. I’m a different Corby.
Women with hysterectomies should not be discriminated against out of bizarre right wing fears of transwomen.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:57am, now you’re saying the business world discriminates against women who have had hysterectomies?
DeleteI thought it was the other way around..
No, I am saying you do.
DeleteWomen who have had hysterectomies almost never discriminate against businesses.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:33am, unless they’re wearing a sign around their necks, doing drag-king story hours, or proudly showing minors their surgical scar, I couldn’t.
DeleteYou’re going to have to find another scenario to hang on your
dissenters.
Why make rules about people if you cannot even tell what their condition is? The invasive nature of that is apparent even to you. Why not just leave people alone to live their lives?
DeleteThis is how Republicans waste time in the House of Representatives:
Delete"10/10/2023 H. Res. 769 Expressing support for the designation of October 10, 2023 as "Real Women's Day".
OFFICIAL TITLE Expressing support for the designation of October 10, 2023 as "Real Women's Day".
SPONSOR Rep. McClain, Lisa C. [R-MI-9]"
Who gets to define what a real woman is? If it requires a uterus, then those with hysterectomies are out of luck. Will there be inspections? Having a uterus needs to be confirmed by x-ray. Or maybe you should just require real women to wear lipstick and high heels. Oh, wait, men can do that too. So how will you define it? Sugar, honey, baby doll? How much time will your team waste on this?
DeleteWhy should this matter to anyone except the individual involved? Panty sniffers like you make me sick.
Anonymouse 12:01pm, no one need sniff anyone’s panties to ascertain that you folks are going to have a hell of a time ahead off you in redefining your victim class.
DeleteYou folks? Who are you referring to with this?
DeleteAnonymices.
DeleteTo my knowledge, no anonymous commenter is claiming victim status, and this makes no sense in the context of the previous discussion.
Delete"Who gets to define what a real woman is?"
DeleteBiologists.
It’s not a scientific question.
DeleteWhat kind of question is it?
DeleteA non-scientific question.
DeleteFrom June 28, 1970, and the world is still turning and life has gone on without anyone caring about this until the Republicans started looking around for Culture War issues.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:07pm, there is nothing new under the sun, but the demand that everyone must now bow and legally acquiesce to a gender based solely on self-declaration.
DeleteIt is always self declaration and always has been.
DeleteThe English language belongs to all of us; it is not subject to a minority's fiat definitions.
DeleteAnonymices new motto is “We are ALL Corby”.
ReplyDeleteYesterday, BLMChicago tweeted their solidarity with Hamas by posting a rendition of a silhouette of a man on a hang-glider, as used by Hamas to enter Israel and murder, kidnap, and torture adults, children, and infants.
ReplyDeleteToday they have “apologized” by taking down the image and saying this isn’t their proudest moment.
I’ll bet. I’m sure there are many wealthy Jews who were sympathetic contributors to the BLM cause.
Hope this was a reality check.
https://x.com/hahussain/status/1711828601283244389?s=42&t=oYvKLjVc8YzJIvwKoQTYBQ
Yes. I don't remember jews antagonizing BLM by responding "All Lives Matter". That was America's right-wing who did that.
DeleteFortunately, Central American refugees heard them loud and clear, exposing one of the greatest "own goals" in the history of being an asshole Right-winger.
Anonymouse 12:34pm, Central American refugees can’t legally immigrate into the U.S. and apply for various legal statuses because conservative said “All Lives Matter”?
DeleteMaking it much more difficult to immigrate legally, is what did that.
DeleteEveryone should be calling their Congressional representatives and ask them what they are doing to make legal immigration easier.
BTW, I recommend this to "the Others" all the time. From my experience, it doesn't seem as if the illegal part is what offends them as much as they make it seem.
@3:09 PM
DeletePerhaps you could explain why you think legal immigration needs to be "easier" than it is now? Why would it be beneficial to the US citizens?
Also, "easier" - in what way? Increase the quotas? Stop checking the background?
You know, try to write something intelligent, for a change.
You don't accept their apology Cecelia? What a shock you would want to jump on this as a talking point for the Trump party. Would you rather bring back Jerod and see if he could eke out another two billion from the situtration?
DeleteAnonymouse 4:05pm, look at the BLM picture of the paraglider, the Palestinian flag, and the caption “That is all that it is!”.
DeleteUnforgivable.
Making legal immigration easier, will reduce illegal immigration.
DeleteI believe legal immigration being easier will be great for the country, because you hardly hear anyone complaining about immigration. They only seem to care if immigrants are here illegally. After all, this country isn't made-up of a bunch of bigots who hate immigration. Pretty much all of us are immigrants, or are descended from them.
If you think I'm mistaken, show me your work.
Anonymouse 5:47pm, in most cases, it should be a more streamlined process.
Delete@5:47. Lots of people object to legal immigration. They walk up to immigrants and tell them to speak English, complain about losing jobs, etc.
DeleteEnglish is useful.
DeleteIn my view, illegal immigration should be zero.
DeleteCrossing the border without authorization is a crime. Overstaying visa is an administrative violation of immigration laws, resulting in deportation.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with legal immigration. Like shoplifting has nothing to do with buying stuff.
People who object to legal immigration need to vote for those who promise to reduce legal immigration. Others will vote for those who promise to increase legal immigration or to leave it as it is now. In the end, a compromise will emerge.
This is how the system is supposed to work.
In my view, illegal immigration should be zero because all immigration should be legal. Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
DeleteThen you should vote for "open borders" candidates, by all means.
DeleteThe fates of these two peoples are intertwined:
ReplyDeletehttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html
Therefore- Yay! Hamas!
DeleteNo one has said that but you. There is something seriously wrong with you.
DeleteDid you actually read the interview?
DeleteAnonymouse 11:56am, the reply I received from ImpCaesarAvg, was to a poster illustrating a position that BLMChicago ihas obliquely denounced.
DeleteMy response is right on target.
Yes, and I don't understand Cecelia's response to it. Beinart discusses pain and suffering and Cecelia says yay. Beinart says the problem is beyond blaming others and Cecelia immediately points a finger. Did you read the interview?
DeleteBeinart said nothing about BLM or their graphics.
DeleteImpCaesarAvg, I never hit links in the comment section.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:07pm, yes, you understand that I was replying to the comment ImpCaesarAvg made in direct response to a horrible poster.
DeleteHe initiated a comment based upon what I had posted.
Beinart is simply on the side of the Palestinians. He blames Israeli mistreatment for the Palestinians barbaric behavior. From what I've read, the Palestinians train the children to hate Jews and hate Israel. They are committed to the destruction of Israel. Nothing Israel can do will change that.
DeleteIt's further complicated by the presumed fact that Iran is substantially funding and guiding these monsters.
I don't know what Israel should do, assuming I'm right about the situation. But, simply ending this conflict with a cease fire surely won't work. It would just give them to re-arm and mount and even more severe attack.
David,
DeleteCan you post the link to the place where you read "the Palestinians train their children to hate Jews and hate Israel"?
You might want to stop presuming Iran was behind the attacks.
"The U.S. has intelligence indicating senior Iranian officials were surprised by the Hamas-led terror attack on Israel, according to multiple American officials familiar with the matter, preliminarily suggesting Tehran was not directly involved the launch of the deadly Oct. 7 assault."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-israel-iranian-officials-surprised-by-hamas-attack-israel/
That’s not what Hamas said.
DeleteWell, if honest brokers, like Hamas, are saying it...
Delete@6:03. What else are they going to say?
DeleteHamas seems to stick to what Anthony Blinken told Meet The Press.
DeleteBiden is doing his best with an opposition party who now must be challenged on the certificate they got upon graduating kidergarten. I tend to agree with the Israeli journalists who are crushing the odious
ReplyDeleteNetanyahu, who, with his support of Trump, attempted
to bring crude authoritarianism to the U.S.
It was his job to meet with our President, to sway him
as he saw fit. Not to stand before the opposition Congress and debase Obama for fools who were getting ready to make a degenerate mental case their hero. No wonder Israel's strongman turned out to be not so strong. It went along with his lack of decency and wisdom.
I recommend this interview. It's about Israel/Palestine. Nothing to do with BLM.
ReplyDeletehttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html
I've read it and also recommend it.
DeleteAs I remember, Hamas was established and funded by Zionists in the first place. To weaken their secular opposition, the PLO.
ReplyDeletePLO was (and still is) perceived as a legitimate political organization. Hamas is perceived (at least by the West) as an Islamic terrorist organizations. Fighting Hamas makes Zionists look righteous (at least in the eyes of the Westerners). So, what's happening now is exactly what they wanted. They succeeded. As usual.
All lives matter. I am Corby.
ReplyDelete