FRIDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2023
"Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?" All through the annals of human history, we learn about the varied fates of the planet's "disregarded peoples."
Some of these populations go on to be deeply despised. Some are then subject to genocides, as was the case with Europe's Jewish population in the middle of the past century.
As all sane people understand, that was one of human history's greatest mass crimes. As Donny Deutsch and Chuck Schumer have noted, the memory of that astonishing crime lives on in American families right up to the present day.
(Before we continue: In one of his last great songs, Woody Guthrie composed a song about a disregarded people. We'll link you to that song below. It's a song which is full of feeling, and full of instruction, about the way such disregard works.)
Europe's Jewish population was subject to one of human history's greatest crimes. There are very few comparable events in known history.
That said, is it possible that the Palestinian population of Gaza can be seen as a "disregarded people" today? We've often thought of Guthrie's song as we've watched some of the conversations about the terrible chains of events afflicting Israelis and Palestinians over the past two months.
Are the Gaza Palestinians a "disregarded people?" Consider some of what has been said about These American College Students Today—about the fact that many younger people are more inclined than their elders to hold "pro-Palestinian" viewpoints.
All the way back on November 11, the New York Times published a generally thoughtful, front-page report about the views and conceptual frameworks of those college students. Online, the dual headlines say this:
After Antisemitic Attacks, Colleges Debate What Kind of Speech Is Out of Bounds
Pro-Palestinian students say that they are speaking up for an oppressed people, but critics say that their rhetoric is deeply offensive.
At what point does "pro-Palestinian" speech become offensive, even antisemitic? On the whole, Hartocollis and Sail did a decent job exploring such questions—but we thought an unnecessary bit of incomprehension was floating around in this passage:
HARTOCOLLIS AND SAUL (11/11/23): “We stand staunchly against all forms of racism and bigotry,” said Anna Babboni, a senior at Scripps College in Claremont, Calif., and one of the leaders of the local chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine.
Ms. Babboni said her group is not antisemitic, but it is anti-Zionist. “We are fighting against a root cause, which is white supremacy, and trying to build a world which is beyond Zionism, beyond racism, beyond white supremacy,” she said.
Pro-Palestinian students like Ms. Babboni see their movement as connected to others that have stood up for an oppressed people. And they have adopted a potent vocabulary, rooted in the hothouse jargon of academia, that grafts the history of the Israeli and Palestinian peoples onto the more familiar terms of social justice movements at home.
Referencing resistance movements, the pro-Palestinian cause is “anticolonial.” Echoing the struggle against institutionalized racism in South Africa, Israel is an “apartheid regime.” Resonating with the concern for Native American land rights, the Palestinians are “Indigenous peoples.” Gaza is a form of mass incarceration, “Israel’s open-air prison.”
Each and every term is contested by pro-Israel students and activists.
According to Hartocollis and Saul, some pro-Palestinian students see the events in question through the framework of present-day "social justice movements."
As such, they may engage in "the hothouse jargon" of present-day academia. Stating the obvious, a bit of prejudgment seemed to be lurking in the writers' use of that term.
Does the framework being described provide a helpful way to view the ongoing situation? That's a matter of judgment—but for ourselves, we were struck by the way Hartocollis and Saul folded in the use of the term, "open-air prison."
The reporters almost seemed to be puzzled by the students' use of that term. In fact, that unflattering term has been widely used down through the years, for fairly obvious reasons.
The term had been used by many people long before These Students Today came along. It seems to us that this Times report should perhaps have cited that fact.
Is the term in question useful? That's a matter of judgment. But the term has been around a good long while—and it helps explain why some of These Students Today might regard the Palestinians of Gaza as "a disregarded people."
Are the Palestinian people of Gaza living in an "open-air prison?" You can judge the fairness of that unflattering claim for yourself. But here's a brief history of the use of that term—a brief history which was published all the way back in the summer of 2015:
Gaza as an Open-Air Prison
In February, the well-known British street artist Banksy went to the Gaza Strip to draw attention to the plight of Palestinians in the aftermath of the devastating Israeli assault the previous summer. With regard to the murals he painted around the Strip, he wrote: “Gaza is often described as ‘the world’s largest open-air prison’ because no one is allowed to enter or leave. But that seems a bit unfair to prisons—they don’t have their electricity and drinking water cut off randomly almost every day.” This comment, a new iteration in a long history of describing Gaza as a place of confinement, is meant to point out the continuous degradation of living conditions in this sliver of land cut off from the rest of Palestine and the world.
[...]
Observers have been regularly describing Gaza as an open-air prison at least since the late 1990s. The term has been used by activists in the Palestinians’ corner (such as Noam Chomsky and Ralph Nader), by not-so-sympathetic officials (such as former World Bank head James Wolfensohn), by humanitarian and human rights organizations (such as Médecins Sans Frontières and B’Tselem), by reporters writing for a range of outlets and, perhaps most importantly, by Palestinians themselves. The twists offered by Banksy and the unnamed Israeli analyst suggest that conditions have become so dire that this language may now be inadequate to describe the state of affairs.
What does the term “open-air prison” connote? Perhaps the first referent for the term is the control over Palestinian movement that has been a central part of Israeli occupation practice. These restrictions are what Sinn Fein’s Gerry Adams pointed to when he said in 2009 that “this is a total denial of the rights of the people of Palestine. This is an open-air prison…. People can’t travel out of here; they can’t travel in.” And it is not only advocates for Palestinian rights who have noted this control. In the midst of the 2014 attack, the New York Times reported that “the vast majority of Gazans cannot leave Gaza…. Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain in 2010 called Gaza ‘an open-air prison,’ drawing criticism from Israel. But in reality, the vast majority of Gazans are effectively trapped.” Gazans suffer from their inability to move in and out of the Strip. Even Israeli officials might concede this point, though they would disagree about who is responsible.
Noam Chomsky had used the term. So had Ralph Nader, as had the former head of the World Bank.
Doctors Without Borders had used the term—and so had Prime Minister Cameron. The comparison isn't meant to be flattering, but the reasons for the comparison are fairly easy to state.
Should Gaza be seen as an "open-air prison?" That is a matter of judgment. But in the summer of 2022, Human Rights Watch offered this retrospective on the conditions which were involved in the long-standing use of that term:
Gaza: Israel’s ‘Open-Air Prison’ at 15
Israel’s sweeping restrictions on leaving Gaza deprive its more than two million residents of opportunities to better their lives, Human Rights Watch said today on the fifteenth anniversary of the 2007 closure. The closure has devastated the economy in Gaza, contributed to fragmentation of the Palestinian people, and forms part of Israeli authorities’ crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution against millions of Palestinians.
Israel’s closure policy blocks most Gaza residents from going to the West Bank, preventing professionals, artists, athletes, students, and others from pursuing opportunities within Palestine and from traveling abroad via Israel, restricting their rights to work and an education. Restrictive Egyptian policies at its Rafah crossing with Gaza, including unnecessary delays and mistreatment of travelers, have exacerbated the closure’s harm to human rights.
“Israel, with Egypt’s help, has turned Gaza into an open-air prison,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. “As many people around the world are once again traveling two years after the start of the Covid-19 pandemic, Gaza’s more than two million Palestinians remain under what amounts to a 15-year-old lockdown.”
You may, or you may not, regard that as fair and balanced. But the use of that unflattering term wasn't invented by These College Students Today. It seemed to us that the largely instructive New York Times report should have tried to avoid the suggestion that these crazy college kids had somehow come up with a puzzling, jargony term.
For the record, a very important point is lodged in the first report we've posted. That very important point goes exactly like this:
Gazans suffer from their inability to move in and out of the Strip. Even Israeli officials might concede this point, though they would disagree about who is responsible.
Should Israel be held responsible for the remarkable conditions which gave rise to that unflattering term?
That's a matter of judgment! But Gazans live under a remarkable set of restrictions, and these restrictions have helped condemn this group of people to one of the highest poverty rates in the world.
In the aftermath of October 7, we saw few references to such facts in various angry conversations on such programs as Morning Joe and Deadline: White House. High level blue tribe pundits often seemed to be thoroughly puzzled by the incomprehensible outlooks and views of These College Students Today.
Why in the world would These College Kids present themselves as "pro-Palestinian?" Why would they express sympathy for the Palestinian people?
Angry pundits seemed to have no idea. They seemed to have little interest in finding out. In our view, they seemed to be locked in a type of incomprehension regarding the various human tragedies being enacted here.
That doesn't mean that these pundits are bad people. It may simply mean that they're people people.
It's very easy for us humans to lock ourselves into some familiar limited viewpoint about some situation. Along the way, it's very easy for us to create another disregarded people.
For the record, some of Those College Kids Today may even be antisemitic. Quite surely, many others are not.
Some of those students probably have extremely limited judgment. (Some are just 19 years old!) But so do many of our major mainstream pundits, a fact they've established, down through the years, again and again and again.
None of us have perfect judgment, but a great deal of American discourse slides past the circumstances of the people living in Gaza. In that sense, Gaza's Palestinians strike us as a "disregarded people," along with many other populations around the world.
(Lip service may be paid to their circumstances. But at that point, the conversation quickly moves on.)
The Guthrie song to which we've referred is called Deportee. More fully, the title of the song is Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos), or simply Plane Wreck at Los Gatos.
The leading authority on the song traces its history here. It isn't clear that Guthrie understood the actual circumstances of the event which led him to write the song, though it may be that he actually did.
The Guthrie song isn't history; the song is human feeling. It deals with the deaths of some migrant farm workers who were part of a disregarded people. Its final verse asks this:
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards?
Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?
To die like the dry leaves
That rot on my topsoil
And be known by no name except "deportee?"
We'll link you to a performance of the song below.
Back in October, Barack Obama said the situation in Gaza was "unbearable." You can see a writer from the Norwegian Refugee Council use the same term here, way back in 2018:
Gaza: The world’s largest open-air prison
More than 50 years of occupation and 10 years of blockade have made the lives of 1.9 million Palestinians living inside the Gaza Strip unbearable. That is why they now are protesting and risking their lives.
Palestinian children and youth grow up in a society characterised by fear, lack of security, hopelessness and the lack of work, medical services, food, freedom of movement and other essentials. Today many refer to the Gaza Strip as the world’s largest open-air prison...
None of us have done enough, Obama said in his statement. On behalf of Israelis and Gazans alike, we're prepared to suggest that his assessment was accurate.
In our view, pundits on our blue tribe's channel weren't doing nearly enough as they battered These College Kids Today—the inscrutable kids who were expressing those puzzling "pro-Palestinian" viewpoints.
Almost surely, some of those students have very limited judgment. At the same time, they may be aware of certain things their elders may tend to ignore, or may perhaps never have known.
The adult pundits seemed uncomprehending concerning the views of these students. Sometimes, teaching our children and parents well can run in more than one direction.
In closing, this:
It's very easy to create "disregarded peoples." It's been done all through the course of human history. In the course of simplifying a terrible situation, do our pundits help do it today?
Meanwhile, "Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?"
That's the question Guthrie asked in one of his last great songs. We'll ask his question a different way:
Is this the best way we can frame our discussions? In our view, the conversations were uncomprehending on MSNBC, even worse over on Fox.
Song sung blue, Rolling Thunder style: To see Guthrie's song performed in the spring of '76, you can just click here.
For us, the performance is full of feeling. For the full lyrics, click this.
"That doesn't mean that these pundits are bad people. It may simply mean that they're people people."
ReplyDeleteDon't kid yourself, Bob: they are scumbags.
They’re good decent scumbags.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:20am, oh, yeah. Far more likely than not.
DeleteIf you call scumbags good and decent, words lose all meaning.
DeleteIf we don't recognize scumbags' goodness and decency, it's hard to reconcile with them.
DeleteWho wants to reconcile with scumbags?
DeleteToday Somerby exaggerates the “greatness” of the Holocaust and thereby mocks it, calling Jews a “disregarded people, another offensive term. What an asshole.
ReplyDeleteYou read this as Somerby mocking the Holocaust? I’m scratching my head in disbelief.
DeleteSomerby did not speak of the Holocaust's "greatness," thus, no mocking occurred.
DeleteHis descriptive adjectives are over the top, so he is mocking it. That’s what assholes do in this context.
DeleteAnonymouse 12:52pm, it has been so amusing to see anonymices working so hard to dredge up something…-anything… to complain about, since Bob is NOT sounding like a guest on a Morning Joe.
DeleteYour complaints about adjectives describing the Holocaust is hilarious, but it can’t beat the one accusing Bob of encouraging women to hit their men.
“Not sounding like a guest on a Morning Joe” No need to look that far afield. He’s trying not to sound like David in Cal.
DeleteGenocide is quite biblical, ordered by God himself:
DeleteDeuteronomy 20:16-18:
“However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.”
At any rate, Somerby is clearly saying that the Palestinians are among the “disregarded peoples”, as he claims the Jews were. He does not mock the Holocaust, that much is clear, to me at least. But one can make a reasonable point that the situation of Jews historically in Europe and that of present day Palestinians is not very equivalent, and thus equating their situations (by calling them disregarded people) can be seen as a misunderstanding of the particular evil of the Holocaust and the treatment of Jews.
mh - Your biblical quote raises something that is not polite to talk about: God ordered the Jews to massacre every indigenous person in the Promised Land - including mewling babies. And to kill all their cattle and sheep. And to poison all their wells.
DeleteIs genocide wrong when God commands it? And does God's command continue to this very day?
The Bible has been used by Christians to justify the persecution of Jews for two thousand years now. I think you are forgetting that the Bible (old and new testaments both) are a work of fiction and not historically accurate.
DeleteI do think there are quite a few lost souls who heard God's voice telling them to commit murders and mass shootings. They are generally regarded as deranged and incarcerated in a prison for the mentally insane.
mh may be pointing out Biblical injunctions to show that they exist on both sides, except that Palestinians are still acting on the Koran's command to kill Jews, whereas Israel is trying to achieve peace.
It is only Muslim extremists who are bent on killing Jews (and misinterpreting their scriptures in other ways), but it is not Israel's job to control such people -- those living in Gaza are responsible for the acts of Palestinians who are attacking Israel. Israel cannot determine who to take reprisals against when Hamas (and others) use the rest of the population as a human shield. So all suffer for the acts of the bloodthirsty. But it isn't Israel doing that -- it is the Palestinians doing it to themselves.
Israel doesn't keep Palestinians in Gaza; Israel keeps them out of Israel. Israel can't keep Palestinians in Gaza, because Israel doesn't surround Gaza. Gaza has a border with Egypt. Israel doesn't prevent Gazans from leaving via Egypt.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Israel want to keep Gazans out? Because, when Gazan Palestinians came into Israel, some of them committed mass murder. Recall that bombings on Israeli busses used to be routine.
BTW Egypt and every other Arab country also keep Gazans out. Evidently the Arabs and the Israelis agree that Gazans are undesirable immigrants.
Whatever Israel does, they always seem to lose in public opinion. Before the horrific event of Oct. 7, the Gazans were making continuous war on Israel. They were firing thousands of rockets at Israeli civilian areas. Israel had the power to respond militarily, but they didn't do so. Instead, they left the Palestinians alone to their own affairs. Does Israel get credit for their restraint? No, they're falsely accused of imprisoning the Gazans.
Other Arab countries keep Palestinians out in order to keep pressure on Israel to let them in.
DeleteThe term Judeo- nazism was coined by the Israeli scholar Leibowitz to describe the potential for Zionism to subjugate the Palestinians. He died in 1996. Way ahead of his time.
DeleteAnonymouse 1:59pm, Leibovitz died at age 91.
DeleteAt that age, his death could only have been “ahead of his time” if it had been caused by an accident, or by violence- such as a suicide bomber.
His comments were way ahead.
Delete@ 2:15 PM
Deletehis understanding wasn't ahead of his time. Already in 1975 a UNGA resolution characterizing Zionism as a form of racism was adopted. There's nothing there now that wasn't there in 1947.
The ability of arab nations to lobby international organizations to condemn Israel doesn't mean that Israel is committing racism or being white supremacist or running an outdoor prison or is an apartheid state. It means pro-Palestinian lobbyists are good at their work, and Arab/Muslim nations have ulterior motives and really really dislike Israel and want to harm it.
Delete7:27 Laughably fanciful speculation. Meritlous.
DeleteCorrection: meritless
DeleteSomerby is now advocating that women need to hit their men more. And while Somerby is correct that women need to let their men know that they are there, he focuses solely on actions and behavior as much as the allegorical spirit of it. Women hitting men is worse than talking about women hitting men.
ReplyDeleteTalking about women who haul off and hit their man is fair.
DeleteThat’s fair game during childbirth and March Madness.
DeleteMy women don't have to hit me. They know that I know there isn't any other place to go but there.
DeleteDamn. I thought 11:23's comment was idiotic, but 12:36 is trying to top it.
ReplyDeleteEvidently, Mexico is the world’s largest cloud.
ReplyDeleteIn rural areas of Mexico, the electrical grid is poor in many areas so that electricity is randomly cut off during each day, or sometimes only on for a few designated hours in the afternoon or evening. There are still places that depend on wells for drinking water or have no indoor plumbing. This is not happening to punish the people. I suspect there are other areas of the world that are similar. Even in the San Luis Valley in CO, where people purchase land inexpensively and live in trailors or cement block self-made shacks, there is no electricity beyond a generator and no running water. That is how poor people live in rural areas, even in the USA.
ReplyDeleteConfusing poverty with crime strikes me as not very enlightened of those kids in elite colleges.
Poor places in Mexico are not analogous with Gaza. Duh.
DeletePoor places in Gaza are not analogous with prison, just because there is intermittent lack of electricity or water.
DeleteWhen the availability of water or electricity is under another nation’s control that is blockading you and controlling seaports and airstrips, this is fundamentally different than the lights going out during a thunderstorm. Israeli policies ensure that Palestine remains third world.
DeleteIt doesn't matter whether the utilities are under the control of a country (Israel is not "another" country to Gaza but part of a single country) or the control of a private enterprise or corporation. Ask Texas how well its utility companies have been performing (both winter and summer have been fucked up). Heat was off for several weeks during a snowstorm/freeze during which a few dozen people died in Texas (part of the USA).
DeleteWhy would you expect Israel to treat Gaza better than Texas treats its citizens?
7:25 If you are trying out for the junior high debate team with that analogy, I have some sad news for you.
DeleteFacts matter.
DeleteHitting one’s spouse is never good. I am Quorbie.
ReplyDeleteI think the problem may be that Somerby himself and the college students he is defending today may not understand what life in like in 3rd world countries, have no idea what refugee camps are like anywhere in the world (there is an excellent glimpse in the film The Good Lie) and thus confuse prison with the make-shift living conditions provided to people worldwide, including in the US and Mexican border camps where immigrants live while awaiting asylum.
ReplyDeleteI know that Somerby does not understand the Bracero program of migrant farmwork about which the song by Woody Guthrie was written. Somerby has no idea how people live while picking US crops -- again there is a good depiction in the film A Million Miles Away, about the farmworker who became an astronaut (true story). Those people are not prisoners either. The song has next to no relevance to this discussion about Gaza, except a plane carrying migrant deportees crashed and was insufficiently mourned becoming martyrs to the attempts to unionize the farmworkers (which was happening when the song was written). Somerby evades the actual history because it really doesn't fit the Palestinian situation. But any song will do for Somerby as long as it sounds sad and expresses grievance.
Somerby closely adheres to the actual history today simply because it accurately reflects the Palestinian situation.
DeleteBob rarely finds clear connections for his musings, and just lets his mind wonder. At least today we get two things worth considering, even if they don't really have anything to do with each other.
DeleteIt would have only taken a few minutes to look this stuff up but Somerby cannot be bothered with that.
DeleteThat so-called stream of consciousness wandering of Somerby's mind is a lot like the loose associations that occur in schizophrenia, resulting in true word salad. This is a symptom of mental illness, not something cute or clever.
“This is a symptom of mental illness, not something cute or clever.”
DeleteNo, anonymouse 2:47pm, your utter literality indicates the lack of abstract thinking and flexibility that is seen in schizophrenics.
The structured thought process demonstrated by Somerby reeks of a highly organized mind, presenting ideas in a logical sequence that never resemble the diabolical incoherencies often seen in schizophrenia.
DeleteCecelia, schizophrenia is nothing to be ashamed of. You can still have a fulfilling life. I hope you’ll continue your comments here; they’re an asset to Bob’s blog.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:31pm, I’m glad your schizophrenia is somewhat stabilized and that you’re optimistic about your future
DeleteHowever, an upwards adjustment in your meds is advisable.
@4:31 -- please explain why you think Guthrie's song has anything whatsoever to do with Gaza. If Somerby is organized and logical, there must be one.
DeleteGaza and Los Gatos both start with the letter G. Easy peasy.
DeleteGuthrie's song about is about unbearable conditions which echoes Obama's description of Gaza.
DeleteNo, that is not what Guthrie's song is about. It is about the immigration policy of deporting illegal farmworkers and it was used and sung to promote green cards for migrants and a farmworker union (in the 1970s) when Cesar Chavez was organizing the farmworkers in CA. Specifically, it is about a plane wreck in which farmworkers being deported after picking the crops died. Plane crashes are certainly unbearable, especially when they are fatal, but this song says nothing about the living conditions provided by the farmers who hire migrant labor. It is about the difficulty of being illegal.
DeleteAnd no, the living conditions of migrant farmworkers were never like those in Gaza.
If you want to assume the song is about something vaguely bad and so is Gaza, that is about as close as this song comes to capturing anything important about two very different situations.
Somerby hedges by saying that the song is not historical but emotional. That is a huge understatement and it essentially means that the song is irrelevant to Gaza but it sure sounds sad.
Guthrie’s lyrics emphasize the universal nature of suffering and death, irrespective of legal status or nationality. This broader perspective on human suffering underlines the universal relevance of the song to all people in unbearable situations.
DeleteIf you broaden the meaning of specific songs like that, they ultimately mean nothing at all. Empty words. I respect Woody Guthrie too much to do that. Somerby doesn’t care who or what he trashes to get Trump elected.
DeleteNotice the way the Palestinians launched their rocket while the cease fire was still in effect, having already decided not to cooperate with extending it! That is how dishonorable people behave. Was it because of living in Gaza? Or did they just want to catch Israel unawares and thereby kill more Jews?
ReplyDeleteI guess you would have to admit it's an Israel friendly discussion, but Al Franken's Nov 4 Interview with Norm Ornstein told me stuff I didn't know, and is also very critical of Israel's right wing and the primary role they have played in this disaster.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a cynical post today, meant to say “see, they’ll do it to you too, they’ll be mean to you too”, meant to be a chilling effect on criticism Somerby doesn’t like, in similar to fashion to how Trump is running around saying he will prosecute (and worse) his enemies if re-elected.
ReplyDeleteBut criticizing Israel’s treatment of Palestinians involves an actual case of the powerful oppressing others, unlike say defending Republicans in Florida for banning talking about homosexuality, about whom Somerby thought were victims because we were being too mean to, because maybe they had a legitimate point. Except they never had a legitimate point, and notably, Somerby got suckered, since Florida immediately expanded the bill to not just K-3 but to K-12, and now they are expanding the bill to workplaces as well.
To use Palestinian suffering in such a cynical way is an indication of a wounded lost soul, wandering with a broken moral compass.
Jewish Israelis are split between Sephardim (48%) and Ashkenazi European Jews (45%). The Sephardic Jews are ethnically indistinguishable from Arabs in the surrounding countries, including Palestinians. They have the same skin color and facial features as Palestinians, and many of the same customs.
ReplyDeleteThis is why calling this a matter of White Supremacy is ridiculous and distracts from the actual threat of Nazi white supremacist beliefs and attitudes in the US. Further it is an insult to those Jews who were the targets of actual white supremacism in the form of Nazi racial attitudes in Germany just prior to the formation of Israel as a refuge for those fleeing true white supremacism there. It is akin to calling Jews "Nazis" by pretending they are doing the same heinous things as the Germans did in the Holocaust. That makes such an accusation not simply inaccurate but deliberately hurtful.
Somerby is a grown-ass adult and should know better than to try to excuse the evil garbage being spread by these Jew-hating pro-Palestinian activists and the foolish children they have duped.
Somerby simpers about excess emotion while pretending the comparisons with apartheid in South Africa (where black people were slaves in mines) have merit and the term open-air prison makes sense applied to a large city in which people are neither confined nor convicted of crimes, nor punished, nor controlled as prisoners in any prison would be, to the point that Hamas was able to devise and launch a large-scale military operation (from that prison) that killed 1200 Israels.
I don't take Somerby for an idiot -- I take him for an evil guy who is abetting an on-going attack on Israel being fought by proxy in the American press. The goal is to undercut US funding for Israel and weaken its ability to defend itself from Arab/Muslim attacks both within and from other countries. The Saudis got a little too close to normalizing relations with Israel, so Russia encouraged Iran to fund Hamas (using Qatar as a cut-out) and make trouble. They hope the US will have fewer resources to aid Ukraine, if Israel needs help too, creating a second front as a distraction.
This is obvious, but a faction of American children and useful idiots are helping Russia undermine the foreign relations objectives of their own country. That's how stupid these people are -- Somerby among them.
Anonymouse 2:42pm, so Somerby is “evil”, but your pro-Pally fellow anonymouses are merely “children” and useful idiots?
DeleteI’m a useless idiot.
DeleteI'm a child. I love Corby. Corby is adorable.
DeleteThank you. I love children. I am Corby.
DeleteI was thinking that the students are useful idiots to the Russians, and certainly the Republicans who are encouraging Russian aggression against Ukraine are idiots -- or traitors, or both.
DeleteIsrael is a top 25 economic power, has a higher GDP than France or Japan, has universal healthcare and free secondary education. So tell us why they need handouts of billions of dollars from US taxpayers annually.
DeleteSouth African apartheid was not about diamond mine slavery, except perhaps in your simplest of minds. It was systemic and global across the subcontinent. Archbishop Desmond Tutu declared Israel an apartheid state having spent time there. He knows more about the subject than you do from your armchair.
Zionists began colonizing Israel in the mid nineteenth century. Their acquired land from the 1967 war including Egyptian, Gaza and West Bank was taken against international law. Israel’s highest court has declared the West Bank settlements illegal. This is the final stage in a typical settler/colonizer chapter, expelling the native population.
The Netanyahu regime has had senior members that called Hamas an Israeli asset and Netanyahu himself advocated their funding 3 years ago.
Israeli citizens have organized against Israeli policy, I assume because they have been misled by propagandists. What a foolish set of thoughts you spout.
When you lose a series of wars, you do not gain territory. No organization can do the brutal things Hamas did on 10/7 and be considered an “asset”!
DeleteLook how these recent comments appear on European time, because they come from paid trolls.
I’m an unpaid troll.
DeleteI am a paid hasbara troll. Unpaid trolls are losers.
Delete3:58 You could be less ignorant but that would require work. Acquiring land by 1967 war was against international law. “Asset” is,as written, past tense. Your accusation is silly.
DeleteWhat do you think the arab nations were doing? Attempting to acquire Israeli land via war.
DeleteI see: The only possible reason anyone might criticize Israel's blockade of Gaza is evil stupidity. Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteYes, because the evil and stupidity are coming from Gaza, which cannot seem to accept the idea that it must live in peace with its Israeli neighbors. This isn't rocket science.
Delete7:19 Indigenous populations do not have the option of living in peace with settler/colonists. The Apache no doubt wanted to wipe the white settlers off the face of the earth and committed extreme acts of barbarism against those who pushed them off their land, as well as those in competing tribes. The unifying activity of settler colonists is displacing indigenous people from their land. When the UN awarded the Zionist settlers 2ce as much land per capita than the indigenous Palestinians in 1948, that set into motion this conflict. The strident cheerleaders for Israel’s apartheid policies and the humanitarian tragedy of their Gaza occupation and illegal West Bank settlements live in a simple minded world of their own making that is fundamentally ignorant.
DeleteThe term “indigenous population” reflects your bias. Somerby said so.
DeleteIndian populations in the US accepted their neighbors, unlike the Palestinians. They wanted to continue their traditions not kill people.
The Palestinians look venal compared to the American Indians who were not greedy the way Palestinians are now, counting how much land Jews have compared to themselves.
@11:56 PM
Delete"When the UN awarded the Zionist settlers 2ce as much land per capita than the indigenous Palestinians in 1948, that set into motion this conflict."
Personally, I feel that regardless of the amount of land per capita, that UN resolution was totally illegitimate.
It's not in the UN's jurisdiction of give parts of the Middle-East to a subset of the Europeans. Especially when all the countries in the region are against it.
3:54 Read up on this stuff and become less ignorant. The Israelis self proclaimed to be colonists when they began moving to the place inhabited by Palestinians in the 19th century. As in “The Jewish Colonial Association”. Your understanding of American history places you firmly at the bottom of your class, unless you were schooled using Florida approved textbooks under DeSantis. Wow. This is grade school stuff. Laughable.
DeleteWoody Guthrie did not write that song right before his death. He wrote it in 1948, but died in 1967. He continued writing songs until 1955.
ReplyDeleteSomerby says that the Jews started on as "disregarded people" and went on to be "deeply despised" as if the Jews did anything to deserve being despised other than what it says in the New Testament of the Bible, and the blood libel about Jews drinking the blood of Christian babies in their rituals. Jews attribute their mistreatment to the lack of a homeland throughout history (having been cast out of the Holy lands). The crusades didn't help, with the Popes ordering military actions to secure wealth in Jerusalem (and along the way), nor did ther rise of Muslim kingdoms in the East. Equating persecution of Jews with Christian holiness is a historical accident that persists among American right wingers. Conspiracy theories about Jewish wealth and control, greed, and paranoia have encouraged the looting and persecution of those Jews who succeeded in business and who attempted to build strong communities in various places. To continue those practices in a time period when we all should know better is unconscionable. Somerby's language is loaded and implies that Jews have brought their misfortunate upon themselves somehow -- that the despising is justified, not an excuse for the mistreatment of a people.
ReplyDeleteIt is similar with racism, where stereotypes and negative attributions were invented to justify the abuse of black people as slaves. Jews were not "disregarded people" in Biblical times but became so with the spread of Christianity to the Roman Empire and the assaults on Jerusalem and its wealth. Somerby implies that it is OK that Jews became despised, which I'm sure Christians have been taught, but it isn't and never was, and certainly shouldn't remain that way given our modern understanding of history.
When Somerby calls the Holocaust one of "history's greatest mass crimes," he is being ridiculous. There are far greater massacres and this is not the biggest or even the most important mass crime. It is a recent one, but we remember it because it was (1) cold blooded and deliberately planned, (2) part of a eugenics program implemented by Nazi white supremacists, thus motivated by race-based hate not politics or warfare, (3) targed toward a people who have historically been persecuted on the basis of myths and stereotypes, disinformation and mass propaganda in Germany and Europe, (4) done using modern technology of gas chambers which is a type of weapon now forbidden in warfare, (5) had nothing to do with the war itself which was about territorial acquisition, (6) involved anti-semitism on both the allied and axis sides in the war.
The Holocaust was not about war at all, but about hate. We remember it to prevent it from happening again, not because it was big or great or whatever Somerby meant by his ill-chosen term. But the problem is that folks today are NOT remembering it. They are condoning the use of hate to justify Palestinian aggression against the Jews (going back to the 1930s, which makes this a continuation of the Holocaust itself, in the Middle East, which apparently never got the message about this stuff being majorly WRONG).
It shouldn't surprise me that Somerby fails to understand about the Holocaust, given that he doesn't understand why racism is wrong either, nor sexism and misogyny. It does scare me that there are Harvard-educated men like Somerby walking around, teaching school, writing and performing standup, without a clue about this stuff. And yes, I do not believe that someone can be a good or decent person and not understand about the Holocaust.
Somerby lives very close to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. I believe he should take a day and go visit it before writing to support Palestinians in their Jihad against Israel again.
Erecting a Jewish state in Palestine was a mistake.
ReplyDeleteMillions of Jews disagree with you.
DeleteEight billion of goys agree.
DeleteIf you have to tell your realtor that your new home will need to have a “safe room” that is probably a clue.
DeleteThat erecting a Jewish state in Palestine was a mistake.
DeleteLetting Palestinians have sharp objects is a mistake.
DeletePeople have safe rooms in Beverly Hills, a wealthy area of Los Angeles. Does that make the rest of the city Gaza?
DeleteAnother reject for the junior high debate club, however cute you may think your analogy is.
Delete"Why would they call it an open-air prison?"
ReplyDeleteBecause they're Nazi filth, that's why
For a more balanced understanding of this issue go to YouTube and search “Gideon Levy: The Zionist Tango:Step left. Step right.”
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