SONGS SUNG BLUE: She was the breakout star of the hearing!

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2023

Who is Elise Stefanik? Without any question, Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) turned out to be the break-out star of last Tuesday's show. 

With that unquestionable fact in mind, it's interesting to note how long the show had dragged on before the angry congressional rep was granted her initial five minutes.

The show to which we refer is last Tuesday's congressional hearing featuring those college presidents from MIT, Harvard and Penn. In theory, the hearing had been called to investigate a very important question. 

In practice, much of the hearing went a great deal like this:

CHAIRWOMAN FOXX (12/5/23): Miss Stefanik, you're recognized for five minutes.

REP. STEFANIK: Dr. Gay, a Harvard student calling for the mass murder of African-Americans is not protected free speech at Harvard, correct?

GAY: Our commitment to—

STEFANIK (instantly interrupting): It's a yes or no question! 

Is that corrected [sic]? Is that OK for students to call for the mass murder of African Americans at Harvard? Is that protected free speech?

GAY: Our commitment to free—

STEFANIK (instantly interrupting again): It's a yes or no question!

As we'll continue to note, Harvard has a lot to be embarrassed about in the wake of last Tuesday's hearing. In our view, first on the list might be this fact:

At one time, not long ago, Harvard actually admitted Stefanik as an undergraduate! 

In fairness, no admission procedure can ever be perfect. But Harvard could sensibly be embarrassed today by the decision it made way back then. 

At any rate, last Tuesday's hearing ran for almost five hours. As you can see from this C-Span videotape, an hour and a half had been burned away before Chairwoman Foxx recognized Stefanik for his first five-minute session.

Stefanik would emerge as the day's breakout inquisitor. That said:

Given the focus of the hearing, Stefanik opened with a slightly odd question. Tomorrow, we'll post Michelle Goldberg's best guess about where that initial question was likely intended to take us.

That said, as soon as President Gay started to answer, Stefanik abruptly cut her off. She asked her question a second time, then cut Gay off again.

She had asked "a yes or no question," the imperious inquisitor insistently said. Just that quickly, she advanced the dumbbell "yes or no" construct which persistently rules at our flailing nation's embarrassing congressional hearings.

If we might briefly pick a nit, we'd have to say that Stefanik's opening question didn't quite perfectly parse. That said, her attitude was fairly clear as she interrupted her target, then quickly did so again.

For reasons which are understandable, such interruptions are the inevitable fruit of the congressional "five-minute rule." At any rate, so began the series of inquisitions which made Stefanik the star of last Tuesday's show.

As we noted yesterday, the New York Times filed four news reports about the December 5 hearing in last week's print editions.  The reports appeared on December 6, December 7 and December 9, and on Sunday, December 10. 

By the time of the December 7 report, a song sung blue could already be heard. One major thought leaders was already being quoted saying this:

SAUL AND HARTOCOLLIS (12/7/23): Even the liberal academic Laurence Tribe found himself agreeing with Representative Elise Stefanik, Republican of New York, who sharply questioned Harvard’s president, Claudine Gay.

“I’m no fan of @RepStefanik but I’m with her here,” the Harvard law professor wrote on the social media site X. “Claudine Gay’s hesitant, formulaic, and bizarrely evasive answers were deeply troubling to me and many of my colleagues, students, and friends.”

Quickly taking to Twitter, "even the liberal" Professor Tribe had already said it. He was no fan of Stefanik, he said, but he was "with her here."

By the time of the December 9 news report, many other such assessments were coming from blue thought leaders and never-Trump conservatives. In her report, Annie Karni quoted Tribe again, then offered a string of like-minded testimonials:

KARNI (12/9/23): Laurence Tribe, the constitutional scholar and professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, said on social media that he was “no fan” of Ms. Stefanik. But, he added: “I’m with her here. Claudine Gay’s hesitant, formulaic, and bizarrely evasive answers were deeply troubling to me and many of my colleagues, students, and friends.” (He declined to comment further on Ms. Stefanik.)

Gov. Josh Shapiro, Democrat of Pennsylvania, said that the testimony of Ms. Magill was a “failure of leadership.”

Representatives Seth Moulton and Jake Auchincloss, both Democrats from Massachusetts and Harvard graduates, released a joint statement saying that “Harvard ranks last out of 248 universities for support of free speech. But when it comes to denouncing antisemitism, suddenly the university has anxieties about the First Amendment. It rings hollow.”

That Ms. Stefanik emerged as the voice of reason in the hearing was a sobering thought for many of her detractors. More than any other member of Congress, Ms. Stefanik represents to Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans the worst of what happened to the G.O.P. under the sway of Mr. Trump.

An alumna of the George W. Bush White House and a protégée of former Speaker Paul D. Ryan, the mainstream conservative from Wisconsin, Ms. Stefanik was once seen as a pragmatic and sober-minded Republican. Mr. Ryan described her in 2019 in a Time magazine profile as “the future of hopeful, aspirational politics in America.”

Instead, she made a political calculation to remain the future of her changing party—by unequivocally embracing Mr. Trump, his repeated falsehoods that the 2020 presidential election was stolen and his inflammatory rhetoric that often stokes racial division.

That prompted a break between her and her alma mater. After the Jan. 6, 2021, attack at the Capitol, Harvard’s Institute of Politics removed Ms. Stefanik from its advisory board, citing her “public assertions about voter fraud in November’s presidential election that have no basis in evidence.”

Ms. Stefanik at the time called her removal “a rite of passage and badge of honor.”

Bill Kristol, the prominent anti-Trump Republican whom Ms. Stefanik once worked with, said he was on multiple text chains with fellow Harvard alumni who shared a similar reaction watching clips from the hearing. The overall sentiment, he said, was, “I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Elise Stefanik is doing a very good job of putting Claudine Gay on the spot.”

[...]

Representative Ritchie Torres, Democrat of New York, was among the Democrats conceding that Ms. Stefanik was right, but he said it did not change his view of her.

“Even a broken clock is right twice a day,” he said. “She continues to be an odious demagogue.”

At least in the way they were quoted, some of those people restricted themselves to criticisms of the  college presidents. 

As a general matter, we agree. The presidents frequently showed a stunning lack of transparency, skill self-awareness in the way they responded to Stefanik's drumbeat of questions and assertions as the day wore on.

At least in the way he was paraphrased, Rep. Torres had gone quite a bit farther. According to Karni, Torres "conceded that Stefanik [had been] right"—and Karni said that Torres was only one among a number of Democrats (and other detractors) who had offered this assessment of Stefanik's performance.

This brings us to some key questions:

Was Stefanik actually "right" in whatever it was she actually said at last Tuesday's hearing? By the way, what exactly had she said? 

What exactly had been learned from the fusillade of angry questions she had continued to fire at the presidents as the hearing wore on?

In our view, the presidents were often remarkably inept this day—but we would also have to say that Stefanik's performance was worse. Having said that, so what?

According to Karni's reporting, it had started with Professor Tribe, and it had proceeded from there. Some unknown number of Democrats had said that Stefanik was right in whatever it was that she had said and done. 

Along the way in the passage we've posted, Karbi explained why those observers, starting with Tribe, didn't enjoy awarding Stefanik the win. She's "an odious demagogue," Torres was finally quoited saying. 

Something, though, the odious demagogue had in some manner been right!

Tomorrow, we'll take a look at the questions Stefanik posed as her inquisition continued. We'll also look at her endless interruptions, and at the undisguised dumbness which might have Harvard embarrassed today about past admission procedures. 

In our view, the college presidents performed quite poorly this day, but Stefanik's performance was worse. We'd have to call it a "song sung blue" when so many liberals and Democrats seemed to think, even to say, that Stefanik had gotten it "right." 

Tomorrow: Our blue tribe's basic skills


76 comments:


  1. It's a distraction, Bob. Because while they - and you - doing this, there's actual full-blown Nazi-style genocide going on, in Gaza.

    Read this, for example:
    https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/death-and-destruction-in-gaza

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    1. The US supports Israel.

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    2. There are nazis on substack too.

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    3. The US supported Germany when Nazis were in power too.

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    4. Not FDR, just certain American Nazi sympathizers. Out govt did not support Germany but supplied and helped Great Britain and its allies.

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  2. I am not a fan of Laurence Tribe.

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  3. Bob misspelled Karni as Karbi. I am not Karbi; I am Korbi.

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    1. Coeby/Korbi/Fake Corby - unlike the real Corby, your frequent posts are quite terse, which is a good thing

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    2. LOL! You're so chill AC/MA. Love it.

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  4. “… his first five-minute session.” Whose first five-minute session?

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  5. I'm in Larry's Tribe!

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  6. The US House of Representatives says Claudine Gay and Sally Kornbluth should resign.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-approves-resolution-demanding-mit-harvard-presidents-resign-after-antisemitism-testimony

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  7. Stefanik has a grotesque record of Trump support/country betrayal in this terrible time, Bob is probably aware of this but avoids such unpleasant Trump Trump Trumping. The heart of his not unfounded gotcha of Tribe is Bob’s revenge scorn is Tribe’s “preening” approach to Trump’s lawbreaking.
    Bob does know that the liberal press seems to have to throw a bone to the right from time to time to appear objective. From Whitewater to Kathy Griffin, it has been so. Tribe is unlikely to be prone to such considerations, so it’s a bit puzzling. But, as Bob has also pointed out, emotions are running high.
    Also, a lot of the rights biggest office holding @ssholes have impressive degrees. There are big bucks in playing dumb.

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  8. “Representatives Seth Moulton and Jake Auchincloss, both Democrats from Massachusetts and Harvard graduates, released a joint statement saying that “Harvard ranks last out of 248 universities for support of free speech. But when it comes to denouncing antisemitism, suddenly the university has anxieties about the First Amendment. It rings hollow.”’

    Priceless.

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    1. And the way for Harvard to improve is not to censor antisemitism but to respect free speech.

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    2. Or be able to succinctly explain what they mean by context.

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    3. No one, including Somerby, has seriously analyzed the entire five hour hearing, but nonetheless, the narrative takes hold and cannot be dislodged that the presidents performed poorly.

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    4. When you actually dig into those free speech rankings, you find that the difference between the top and bottom rankings are insignificant. Furthermore, Harvard has been found to allow more right wing speech than leftist speech.

      Cecelia provides a case study, where one can see a right winger in their natural element. There’s no interest in context, the sole motivation is to feel dominant over who Cecelia views as the Other.

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  9. Stefanik is not right. She behaved like a demagogue and that isn’t ok just because Somerby happens to agree with her.

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    1. anon 11:10 are you joking or are you an idiot? How is TDH agreeing with Stefanik by saying that "the college presidents performed quite poorly this day, but Stefanik was worse." Have you no shame?

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    2. It's the subtext don'tcha know.

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    3. Her performance was politically successful. How was it “worse” than the presidents, one of whom already lost her job? Stefanik performed exactly as she intended. Hers was demagoguery, the presidents were presumably inept, exhibiting liberal tribe failure, according to Somerby.

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    4. mh, as you assert, Stefanik's performance was demagogic. One way of evaluating her performance, I suppose, is how effective it was. But other valid ways of evaluating her performance could be by a standard of reason and/or a moral standard. TDH pretty obviously means her performance was "worse" by either or both of these standards. There's a difference between an "effective" argument or claim and a rational, well-reasoned, and fair one (though someone might rationally decide to get their way what they want by demagoguery, happens often enough).

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    5. If Bob is waiting for Stefanik, or any other Right-winger, to make a good-faith argument, he's going to be waiting forever.

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  10. The college professors did not perform poorly. They told the truth under oath and did their jobs.

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    1. This is the only coherent comment today.

      Somerby reads his comments, the first half of his blog today is nicked from a comment from yesterday.

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  11. In Terminiello v. Chicago (1949), the Supreme Court narrowed the scope of what constitutes fighting words. The Court found that words which produce a clear and present danger are unprotected (and are considering fighting words), but words which invite dispute and even cause unrest are protected (and are not considered fighting words).

    In Feiner v. People of State of New York (1951), the Supreme Court held that akin to the fighting words doctrine, an incitement of a riot which creates a clear and present danger is also not protected by the First Amendment.

    In R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul (1992), the Supreme Court found that the "First Amendment prevents government from punishing speech and expressive conduct because it disapproves of the ideas expressed." Even if the words are considered to be fighting words, the First Amendment will still protect the speech if the speech restriction is based on viewpoint discrimination.

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    1. So if you were a college president, and were asked "One of your students calling for the mass murder of African-Americans is not protected free speech, correct?"

      What would be your answer?

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    2. If you were a public school board member, and a bunch of radical right wing loons from the fever swamps start threatening your family and children with physical violence unless you agree with their policies on library books, that's free speech, right?

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    3. Someone else please. Besides one of the propagandists.

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    4. Anonymouse 1:54pm, yep. That and yelling “fire” in a theater.

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    5. If that student literally calls for "mass murder of African-Americans", then I know his name.
      It's Jussie Smollett.

      I am Corby.

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    6. Anonymouse 2:12pm, or a rival black gang member.

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    7. No, I don't think so. Gang members don't speak Lib. "African-Americans" is not in their vocabulary.

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    8. As the college presidents responded, speech may be personally offensive but is permitted unless the context of the speech involves bullying, harassment, or intimidation.

      You can ramble on about mass murdering whoever you want; notably students were not doing this.

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    9. 1:36 PM is about the law and law enforcement.
      It has nothing to do with university presidents.

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  12. Malicious compliance-related quote of the day!

    Today's quote will be enjoyed by... [sound of wheel spinning]

    The Left!

    ""In cases like this where a school district appears to be using a footpath to discriminate, we demand that they apply that equally across the board to all books that have sexually explicit content, including the Bible."

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  13. An “odious demagogue” can apparently be right, at least once. If Tribe partially agreed with her stance at the hearing, was he supposed to claim otherwise?

    I recall Somerby calling Ron DeSantis a demagogue, but said that liberals should acknowledge that he was at least partially correct with his “stop woke act.”

    (“We're inclined to view DeSantis as a demagogue and a bully. Based on his recent essay for the New York Times, it sounds like Professor McWhorter views DeSantis in a roughly similar way.”

    And mcwhorter’s headline read “DeSantis May Have Been Right”

    And Somerby again: “we don't think it's obvious that DeSantis wasn't basically right in some ways. We're happy to share McWhorter's belief in the occasional wisdom of clocks.”

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2023/02/enemies-or-friends-he-may-be-right.html?m=1)

    Apparently, agreeing with a demagogue is ok, as long as most liberals disagree, said disagreement being a blue tribe failure, but also not ok, a blue tribe failure, when some liberals agree. Whichever way to best ridicule liberals, as determined by Somerby’s reflexive, one might say limbic, hatred of liberals.

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    1. mh, yeah, that ole saw about some people being right like stopped clocks are right twice a day is quite an endorsement.

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    2. Somerby wrote post after post berating liberals for attacking DeSantis over the stop woke act. It wasn’t a casual offhand defense of DeSantis.

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    3. mh, I get you. Somerby has said that DeSantis is an odious demagogue, but even they can be right about something.

      That is all it takes to be a heretic in your cult.

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    4. I am saying that he is a hypocrite, not a heretic, whatever that’s supposed to mean to you.

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    5. DeSantis is a politician. Calling him (or any other politician) "odious demagogue" is redundant.

      DeSantis is right on "stop the woke", and Stefanik is wrong on "college antisemitism". Liberals hate-monger "stop the woke", but play along with "college antisemitism". End of story.

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    6. I see, 4:16. What is “right” and “wrong” is not up for debate, just as those college presidents performed poorly is now gospel here, and the stop woke act is clearly correct, and no number of liberals, regardless how small, are allowed to sincerely see antisemitism in some of the recent events.

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    7. Nothing here is the gospel. Just personal opinion, random thoughts, of one blogger, a retired comedian.

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    8. Anonymouse 4:37pm, he knows that, but merely reading a counter opinion makes him tear his hair out.

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    9. mh, you're not recognizing that there can be two sides to a story, that everything isn't black and white. There can be reasonable arguments that the liberal narrative attacking the so-called anti-woke act distorted what the act provides; it seems to me that there was at least some validity to criticism of the act pursuant to the "liberal" narrative also. You are so caught up as to how awful the right wing GOPers are that you can't recognize that some of their positions make some sense, and a lot of the left-wing woke, and other dem. positions can be validly faulted. You're blind to that. I supposed that's politics, the human condition.

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    10. mh's comment is simple minded and full of resentment.

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    11. AC/MA you are presenting a false circumstance, based on a misunderstanding of what left and right mean.

      There are two or more sides to most issues, but it is rare that there are two or more reasonable sides to most issues, slavery, fascism, and climate change being some stark and well known cases.

      The most common complaint about the Florida bills was that they were purposefully written in a vague manner in order to provide plausibly deniability to their negative intent and to provide a chilling effect, accomplishing oppression without explicitly announcing it.

      Although these bills were intentionally vague in order to make it difficult for there to be “sides”, the Individual Freedom bill denies teaching that racial color blindness can be bad which restricts teaching about racism, and the Parental Rights in Education bill initially blocked instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity for K-3, but then quickly expanded it to K-12 and it’s now being expanded to all government employees.

      Your stance about “two sides” is untenable.

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    12. Should school children (and others) be made feel guilty because of their skin color, or not?

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    13. Encourage your children well.

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    14. Teaching sexual content to third graders was never, ever, a practice until DeSantis and the right wing Florida legislature concocted a narrative about it being one. Likewise, school children can learn history without feeling guilty, as has always been the case, until DeSantis and his right wing legislature, without providing any evidence of such, decided that such was the case.

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  14. This:
    http://patricklawrence.us/patrick-lawrence-gaza-confronting-power/

    "This is the American state, broadly defined and well on its way toward a form of apple-pie absolutism, forcing distorted meanings not merely on three university administrators but on all of us. "

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  15. Since the NY Times is behind a paywall, I am providing a lengthy quote from an opinion article by black conservative John McWhorter,. I agree with it.

    Less noticed has been how starkly their expectations of Jewish students point up how low expectations are for Black students on many college campuses — expectations low enough to qualify as a kind of racism.

    Yes, racism, though it’s more of the “soft bigotry of low expectations” that George W. Bush referred to.

    Many leaders at elite universities seem to think that as stewards of modern antiracism, their job is to decry and to penalize, to the maximum extent possible, anything said or done that makes Black students uncomfortable.

    In the congressional hearing, the presidents made clear that Jewish students should be protected when hate speech is “directed and severe, pervasive” (in the words of Ms. Magill) or when the speech “becomes conduct” (Claudine Gay of Harvard).

    But the tacit idea is that when it comes to issues related to race — and, specifically, Black students — then free speech considerations become an abstraction. Where Black students are concerned, we are to forget whether the offense is directed, as even the indirect is treated as evil; we are to forget the difference between speech and conduct, as mere utterance is grounds for aggrieved condemnation.

    It seems to me that, in debates over free speech, Jews are seen in some quarters as white and therefore need no protection from outright hostility. But racism is America’s original sin, and thus we are to treat all and any intimation of it on university campuses as a kind of kryptonite, even if that means treating Black students as pathological cases rather than human beings with basic resilience who understand proportion and degree.

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    1. The difference is that racism is not a matter of opinion but of race-based hate. Attitudes about Gaza are still considered a controversy with different valid sides (no matter how strongly felt those opinions may be. Antisemitism in the form of hatred for Jews is just as impermissible as racism. The problem arises when antisemitism is confounded with political opinions about Gaza vs Israel.

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    2. Good job, David. You’ve violated McWhorter’s and/or the Times’ copyright.

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  16. Thanks, David. You have once again shown yourself. Not that we need a reminder. Rather than sanction antisemitic language in parallel with race based degrading speech, you as a student would prefer to have the liberty to say exactly what about black colleagues on campus? Because that is the argument here, that the degradation of antisemitic talk is ok so long as we can take the gloves off when discussing the Blacks. Go ahead and give us examples specifically of what speech about black students should be fair game, and you are free to use the N word for the purpose of this exercise. Let it all hang out. You know, for the purpose of avoiding the "soft bigotry of low expectations".

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    1. Poor David. Life has been so terribly unfair to him. Blacks always get special treatment.

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    3. Unamused, while you’re calling David a racist, consider that paternalism and infantilism go hand in hand. It will always be an uneasy alliance.

      Democrats burned and looted unimpeded during the Summer of Love and no college presidents or pols were called to account.

      It took about five minutes of hollering at Jews on hallowed Ivy League ground before the elite college presidents were hauled to DC.

      Prof Ezekiel Emanuel, along with others, had promised to change an insidious antisemitic college culture and the prof must have gotten on the horn. He got results.

      These elites were grilled up one side and down the other. Yes or no answers only, please. In this particular scenario, the black lady college president has had a tougher time of it than the Jewish one. Yes, Bob was disappointed that these women were literally interrogated by a Jewish congresswoman unworthy of getting into Harvard, but even the Republicans weren’t dumb enough to have called in Sen. Cotton for the job

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    4. Don't be confused. "De-fund the police" IS the compromise/ centrist position.

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    5. "Democrats burned and looted unimpeded during the Summer of Love.."

      I apologize for calling you a Right-winger. Anyone who puts in any amount of effort, like you did by confirming the voting records of each and every burner and looter, couldn't possibly be lazy enough to be called a Right-winger.

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    6. Thanks, but I suppose I should modify that description into “Democrat-laden”.

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    7. The uprising following a cop murdering a black was unfortunate, messy and not supportable for its violence and destruction. That said, the very first building torched to the ground in Minneapolis/ St. Paul, an Autozone, was destroyed by a right wing extremist. And then there were the murders of protesters. Not by a Democrat.

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    8. 10:42 was from me. If I am reading Cecelia's first paragraph correctly, it proposes that limiting hate speech is tantamount to treating the abused parties like children. Or maybe I don't get the point. I don't think hateful speech directed at any group has a place in the rightful discourse at higher learning institutions. I think that it opposes discourse. Because it seeks to diminish the legitimacy of the group it is directed at. The originators of public slurs against any group should be punished for short circuiting discourse by attempting to scapegoat via bigotry legitimate voices. The quoted NYT piece advocates for more of this deplorable activity, not less.

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  18. Incidentally, to be very clear about the challenge here: Within the context of the quoted article, McWhorter engages in an argument that, without specific examples, is nothing more than innuendo. Now, it may be that he provided them, but not specified in DIC's comment. In which case, they can be provided. Otherwise it would be illuminating to know exactly what DIC thinks is being talked about here. I have zero issue with a private company like the Harvard Corporation banning it's customers from hurling offensive race, religious or gender based epithets at each other within the confines of corporate property. Imagine a restaurant that would allow diners to do so across their respective tables. But McWhorter and apparently DIC think that it's OK so long as every subgroup gets an equal shot at being verbally denigrated. So let's have examples, to establish what should be acceptable, that currently is not, when referring to our Black neighbors.

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    1. If you want to read McWhorter’s column, you have to subscribe to the New York Times. I would like to read McWhorter, but I don’t subscribe to the Times. So I’m out of luck. Sometimes I watch him on YouTube. I am Quorbie.

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  19. Also note that, as an aside, DIC and other commenters on this thread have, without any supporting evidence, equated Palestinians with Hamas. This is stated to be on account of the overwhelming support among Palestinians for Hamas. Now a poll of Palestinians has been published with a 2% error risk that indicates a minority (42% Gaza, 44% West Bank) of Palestinians support Hamas. The world is much more palatable to those who mold it to their agendas, irrespective of fact.

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  20. Fuck off and die, Nazi filth.

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