AFTERMATHS: He's been found guilty of 34 crimes!

MONDAY, JUNE 3, 2024

Aftermaths can be a [-----]: "The world is too much with us," William Wordsworth famously said, in a poem of the same name.

Here's the way the poem starts:

The World Is Too Much With Us

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers...

We've never studied the poem in question, but so the poem begins.

Within the past week, we've often thought of that famous opening line. We continue to think that we, as a nation, have allowed the specific events of the Donald Trump Era to be (way) "too much with us."

We continue to think that we could gain by stepping back from the press of immediate events—by trying to see our present circumstance within a wider context. For a bit of human context, we've been discussing the events which were described in the western world's first "poem of war."

Today, as we start our first week in the wake of last Thursday's guilty verdicts, we turn to that famous  poem again, pondering this possible conclusion:

Aftermaths can be very hard! That's the lesson we'd take away, at this time, from that first famous poem. 

The poem ends with the burial of Hector, the noblest defender of Troy. After Hector is slain by Achilles and dragged through the dust, the fall of Troy is inevitable.

The subsequent fall of Troy isn't described in the Iliad. But every Greek citizen knew the story of that brutal aftermath.

For starters, the aftermath was quite unpleasant, even for some of the conquering Achaeans! How about Agamemnon, lord of men? The leading authority on the matter describes the fate which awaited the lord of men:

Agamemnon

In Greek mythology, Agamemnon was a king of Mycenae who commanded the Achaeans during the Trojan War. He was the son (or grandson) of King Atreus and Queen Aerope, the brother of Menelaus, the husband of Clytemnestra, and the father of Iphigenia, Iphianassa, Electra, Laodike, Orestes and Chrysothemis. 

Legends make him the king of Mycenae or Argos, thought to be different names for the same area. Agamemnon was killed upon his return from Troy by Clytemnestra, or in an older version of the story by Clytemnestra's lover, Aegisthus.

[...]

After a stormy voyage, Agamemnon and Cassandra land in Argolis, or, in another version, are blown off course and land in Aegisthus's country. Clytemnestra, Agamemnon's wife, has taken Aegisthus, son of Thyestes, as a lover. When Agamemnon comes home he is slain by Aegisthus (in the oldest versions of the story) or by Clytemnestra. According to the accounts given by Pindar and the tragedians, Agamemnon is slain in a bath by his wife alone, after being ensnared by a blanket or a net thrown over him to prevent resistance.

In Homer's version of the story in the Odyssey, Aegisthus ambushes and kills Agamemnon in a feasting hall under the pretense of holding a feast in honor of Agamemnon's return home from Troy. Clytemnestra also kills Cassandra. 

When the lord of men returned from Troy, he quickly met his end.

We'll explain the references to Cassandra below. First, a few more aftermaths:

Odysseus, the wily tactician, endures a remarkable ten-year journey back to his native Ithaka after Troy has fallen. His journey is the subject of the Odyssey, the (violence-strewn) "poem of homecoming" which followed the earlier "poem of war."

Aftermaths were difficult even for some of the victors! For the defeated Trojans, the aftermath of the fall of Troy was more difficult still.

Hector was the son of Troy's King Priam. In the various books of the Iliad, we meet Hector, the poem's noblest figure, and his wife Andromache and their darling baby son. 

The aftermath was brutal for this entire family. In his Introduction to Robert Fagles' 1990 translation of the Iliad, Bernard Knox describes that aftermath: 

[T]he death of Hector seals the fate of Troy; it will fall to the Achaeans, to become the pattern for all time of the death of a city. 

The images of that night assault—the blazing palaces, the blood running in the streets, old Priam butchered at the altar, Cassandra raped in the temple, Hector's baby son thrown from the battlements, his wife Andromache dragged off to slavery—all this, foreshadowed in the Iliad, will be stamped indelibly on the consciousness of the Greeks throughout their history, immortalized in lyric poetry, in tragedy, on temple pediments and painted vases, to reinforce the stern lesson of Homer's presentation of the war: that no civilization, no matter how rich, no matter how refined, can long survive once it loses the power to meet force with equal or superior force.

The Iliad ends before these events occur. But Greeks all knew where the story led:

The kindly King Priam was "butchered at the altar." Cassandra, Hector's sister, was "raped in the temple."

Hector's darling son was thrown from the walls of Troy to his death. And Andromache, his loyal wife, was dragged off to slavery, exactly as Hector had prophesied much earlier in the poem. 

Meanwhile, why was Cassandra mentioned in connection with the murder of Agamemnon? Once again, we turn to the leading authority

Cassandra

Cassandra or Kassandra in Greek mythology was a Trojan priestess dedicated to the god Apollo and fated by him to utter true prophecies but never to be believed...

Cassandra was a daughter of King Priam and Queen Hecuba of Troy. Her elder brother was Hector, the hero of the Greek-Trojan War. 

[...]

In Homer's work, Cassandra is mentioned a total of four times "as a virgin daughter of Priam, as bewailing Hector's death, as chosen by Agamemnon as his slave mistress after the sack of Troy, and is killed by Clytemnestra over Agamemnon's corpse after Clytemnestra murders him on his return home."

Cassandra faced a horrible aftermath—a disgraceful aftermath as judged by modern norms. 

After the fall of Troy, the lord of men chose Cassandra to serve "as his slave mistress." Later in its account of her story, the leading authority goes into a bit more detail:

Once Troy had fallen, Cassandra was taken as a pallake (concubine) by King Agamemnon of Mycenae. While he was away at war, Agamemnon's wife, Clytemnestra, had taken Aegisthus as her lover. Cassandra and Agamemnon were later killed by either Clytemnestra or Aegisthus. Various sources state that Cassandra and Agamemnon had twin boys, Teledamus and Pelops, who were murdered by Aegisthus.

Agamemnon and his innocent "slave mistress" were killed upon his return. The twin boys were murdered too. Enormous impulses to violence and other forms of aggression are present in these early records of human behavior.

For the record, when Odysseus finally makes it home, he has to drive a bunch of suitors away from Penelope, his loyal, long-suffering wife. 

With the help of his son and two associates, he manages to kill all the suitors. According to the leading authority, "[his son] also hangs twelve of their household maids whom Eurycleia identifies as guilty of betraying Penelope or having sex with the suitors."

We humans were a harshly punitive bunch back then. At any rate, so went the aftermath of the siege of Troy, even for one of the victors.

Aftermaths can be brutal, even for those who have emerged as the victors in some episode. We've thought of this as we've wondered, this past week, about where those 34 guilty verdicts might lead our struggling nation.

Where might those guilty verdicts lead? In this morning's New York Times, Norman Eisen recommends prison time for the fallen Trump.

In a corresponding guest essay, Nancy Gertner disagrees.  At the end of her essay, Gertner offers this:

GERTNER (6/3/24): [T]he bottom line is this: The factors pointing to imprisonment are outweighed by Mr. Trump’s unique position. Justice Merchan pulled his punches in imposing fines, not detention, for Mr. Trump’s repeated violations of his court orders. Anyone else would have been jailed. Mr. Trump no doubt will be treated differently—that is, less harshly—than other criminal defendants in our extraordinarily punitive criminal legal system. But we shouldn’t equalize the treatment of defendants by ramping up everyone’s punishment. Our criminal legal system is far too retributive and leans too heavily on imprisonment, no matter what the crime. Besides, Mr. Trump is different, because he was president and could become president again.

You rarely see major figures say that, as a general matter, our legal system is "extraordinarily punitive"that it's "far too retributive and leans too heavily on imprisonment, no matter what the crime."

In Blue America, we tend to pick and choose the circumstances in which we offer such judgements. 

That said, will Donald J. Trump be sent to prison? Should Blue America seek that outcome? Could that outcome be wise?

We wonder about the aftermathabout the possible whirlwindwhich might emanate from the instincts we see taking general hold within our own self-impressed Blue America tribe.

As a general matter, we're sorry that this particular criminal case was ever brought at all. As we've explained in the past, it seems to us that this prosecution sought to discourage the wrong type of behavior.

That said, what might the aftermath of those guilty verdicts be? In Blue America, major journalists continue to struggle just to define or describe the 34 crimes in question here. In Red America, anger grows as Blue America struggles forward in such unusual ways.

What might the aftermath of this remarkable matter be? Are we possibly "laying waste to our powers" as we continue to head down the punishment road?

We'll ponder such questions this week. It seems to us that judgment can often be quite poor over here within our own tribe.

Judgment can be poor within all tribes. Also this:

Aftermaths can be a real [-----]. Could some such thing happen here?

Tomorrow: Can anyone here play this game?


67 comments:

  1. "Justice Merchan pulled his punches in imposing fines, not detention, for Mr. Trump’s repeated violations of his court orders. "

    Justice Merchan is a good decent person. Practically a mensch.

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    1. People pulled their punches for Trump his entire life and look what it made of him! Not a mensch.

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  2. Somerby is a tad obsessed.

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  3. "We've never studied the poem in question, but so the poem begins."

    If he had studied the poem, he might realize it has nothing to do with Trump or his situation, the aftermath of the guilty verdict against Trump, in which his crimes have been "studied" and he has been found to be a criminal.

    Those are words Somerby will not say -- that Trump is guilty, that he committed crimes, that he has been held accountable and is now a convict, a felon.

    Wordsworth's poem is not about aftermaths. And Trump's recent conviction can hardly be called an aftermath when there are still so many charges hanging over his head, crimes he has not yet been tried for, much less convicted. This is just the beginning of Trump's legal accountability, although it may be the end of his political career, once the MAGAs understand that he is a tired old man with nothing left to do but steal more of their money.

    Wordsworth says: "Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers..."

    The internet tells us it is about this: "In “The World Is Too Much With Us,” the speaker describes humankind's relationship with the natural world in terms of loss. That relationship once flourished, but now, due to the impacts of industrialization on everyday life, humankind has lost the ability to appreciate, celebrate, and be soothed by nature."

    And that has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump or with suspense over his verdict or even about anger among the MAGAs. It is about an entirely different subject, modernization versus the natural world. As such it reflects the same conflict Thoreau struggled with, one buried in our distant past since we now live in a technological society not an industrial one, and we long ago decided that progress was not bad and nature was not necessarily good. But it is majorly off-topic, so Somerby is just borrowing a set of words without thinking of the author's intent, because he likes them and they capture his own vacuous thoughts (if they can be termed such).

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  4. Lionel Dyck and Robert Pickton have died.

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    1. Until we meet again, Lionel and Robert.

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    2. I heard that Lionel was a dick.

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    3. It isn't nice to make fun of the names of dead people.

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  5. Somerby quotes Gertner as saying our justice system is extraordinarily punitive. Previous centuries, including the time when Wordsworth lived, were much more punitive, with harsher penalties for minor crimes than we have today.

    Wordsworth wrote: "Strike not from law's firm hand that awful rod."

    Dollars to donuts Somerby won't be quoting that line.

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  6. "In Blue America, major journalists continue to struggle just to define or describe the 34 crimes in question here."

    This is untrue.

    Here is a debunking of the arguments Somerby has been raising and others being brought up by right wingers:

    https://popular.info/p/all-the-arguments-against-trumps?utm_campaign=email-half-post&r=brgvh&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

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  7. "It seems to us that judgment can often be quite poor over here within our own tribe."

    Somerby has been questioning the value of judgment and reasoning and quoting Romantic period poets and authors. He doesn't value what the Romantics valued, emotion and imagination, subjectivism, individualism. But he doesn't value anything, which makes him more of a nihilist.

    This comes across as using the Romantic poets for his own purposes, more than admiring or following their ideas. Or perhaps it is nothing more than the accident of having taken a course in the Romantic Poets at Harvard, so he has their textbooks on his shelf along with Willa Cather, his moldy Dylan albums and the Illiad.

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  8. I could see Alito and Thomas overturning the verdict based on Somerby not understanding the charges.
    Whatever it takes, for them two.

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  9. Somerby refers to entertainment involving lots of murders as if it were documentary describing the lives of actual people in ancient times. It is like taking Pulp Fiction as a true depiction of modern American life, or Kill Bill.

    Somerby wishes to depict the Greeks as harshly punitive, but our society and modern societies in general have been evolving away from harsh punishment and we haven't had an infanticide in the presidency in gosh, how many years?

    This histrionic nonsense that Somerby writes makes him appear to be a major idiot. His serious statements tend toward that same image of him.

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  10. My vision of the aftermath of Trump's conviction is that sane Republicans would decide at their upcoming convention that they don't want to support a candidate who is a convicted felon. They should tell Trump to come back when his legal troubles are over, and instead nominate someone with a track record, a program for his term, and a Republican platform that voters can evaluate to know what their party stands for, aside from supporting Russia. That is the only thing that can save the Republicans now.

    Isolated MAGA militia actions will be either anticipated or stopped in progress by police and National Guard, as happened when the militias decided to attack BLM protesters.

    Trump called for support during his trial and no one showed up. He has been calling for support ever since and no one has been taking up arms. They learned their lessons after 1/6, including the one about Trump being unable or unwilling to stand up for them when jailed. Trump is no longer president, so he could do nothing to help anyone who rides to his rescue these days. Even the stalwart have stopped sending him money like they did before.

    These are the dying days of the MAGA movement. Somerby's warnings come across as goofball attempts to revive the glorious past, as occurred when the KKK lost its clout. There are always a few diehards, even if they are being paid, as Somerby may be.

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    1. There are two sets of consequences: on Trump and on the country. Maybe it's good that Trump was convicted. He's certainly an immoral person. He probably committed other crimes. What goes around comes around.

      But, it's a bad precedent for the country. We'd like to believe that Trump is unique. There will be no other political prosecutions based on dubious legal theories. But, politicians want power. And, prosecutors have enormous discretion on how they charge or don't charge a crime. So, political prosecutions will become normalized.

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    2. You know what else is a bad precedent for this country? Allowing a presidential candidate to hide his tax returns from the public and allowing a sitting president to conduct his private business from the Oval Office, you know Dickhead in Cal.

      Jimmy Carter was forced to sell his little peanut farm. Hillary Clinton was forced to promise to remove herself from a global charity foundation because of "appearances", but fuckhead Donald J Chickenshit was allowed to shit all over the emoluments clause of the Constitution, and you Dickhead, didn't give two shits. Well, that is a big part of why he got in trouble with the law.

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    3. It is not a bad precedent for our country to take our laws seriously. The evidence and the jury conviction proved this was not a "political prosecution" despite Trump being a political kind of guy.

      Have Congressional hearings against political opponents been normalized? Perhaps you should write your congress members and complain about that. At least no one goes to jail after one of the sham investigations cooked up by the Republicans to harrass Democrats and government officials who are largely doing their jobs to the best of their abilities.

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    4. I don't hear David calling for the Republicans to nominate someone other than Trump for president.

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    5. David in Cal,
      Remember when you venerated Trump because he was an outsider who didn't blindly follow precedents?
      Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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    6. I said political prosecutions would become normalized. I should have said that they're already normalized.

      It's fairly common for a Presidential aide of either party to refuse a Congressional subpoena based on Executive Privilege. In previous instances what happened was is that the aide refused to testify before Congress, and that was the end of it.

      Trump aide Peter Navarro, like many others of both parties , believed that executive privilege barred him from testifying. But, unlike all the others, Navarro was sent to prison. That's where he is right now.

      There was no uproar about his unique punishment. The country accepts that the law for Republicans is harsher than the law for Democrats.

      @11:58 i never preferred Trump as my candidate. Ted Cruz, DeSantis, and Tom Cotton are younger, smarter and better. Trump's exceptional persuasion skills helped him defeat them.

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    7. Nobody invoked EP, David. Navarro didn't have the right or authority to do so. Then there are crime exceptions to EP. (see Nixon et al), you fucking ignorant treasonous bastard. Navarro thumbed his nose at a bipartisan congressional committee investigating an attempted coup by your fucking hero, Donald J Chickenshit. He had his day in court, and multiple appeals all the way up to the SC. So go fuck yourself.

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  11. Alvin Bragg routinely turns most current felony prosecutions to misdemeanors, including many violent and random physical assaults. If anyone thinks Bragg turning a, what is at best a misdemeanor from 8 years ago and turning into 34 felony counts is not selective political prosecution, they are full of sh*t and not as smart as they think they are.

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    1. The idea that what Trump did was trivial needs rethinking. Elections are more important to more people than physical assaults on individuals. Trump assaulted our democracy. But Bragg also decides who to prosecute based on other factors than the perceived seriousness of the crime, including the evidence and likelihood of conviction and the context in which the crime occurred. The case against Trump was ironclad, whereas a case against someone picked up for perhaps being involved in a random assault may not be, no matter how violent.

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    2. "Trump assaulted our democracy."

      To be fair, Hillary showed him how:

      "The FEC fined both organizations after a pair of now years-old complaints — one from the Campaign Legal Center and another from the conservative Coolidge Reagan Foundation — alleged that the party and campaign reported payments to the powerhouse Democratic law firm Perkins Coie as legal expenses, when in actuality some of the money was earmarked for “paying Fusion GPS through Perkins Coie to conduct opposition research on Donald Trump,”

      https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/30/dnc-clinton-campaign-fine-dossier-spending-disclosure-00021910#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Election%20Commission%20has,the%20now%2Dinfamous%20Steele%20dossier.

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    3. Wrong, Hector. The Clinton campaign properly reported the payments as campaign expenses, not falsifying fucking business expenses. Big difference.

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    4. GOP commissioners have single-handedly blocked FEC action against Trump 29 times

      As of December 2023, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) has received 59 allegations that Donald Trump or his committees violated the Federal Election Campaign Act. In 29 of those cases, nonpartisan staff in the FEC’s Office of General Counsel (OGC) recommended the FEC investigate Trump. Yet not once has a Republican FEC commissioner voted to approve any such investigation or enforcement of the law against Trump.
      https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/gop-commissioners-have-single-handedly-blocked-fec-action-against-trump-29-times/

      But sonofabitch, that all were perfectly happy to slap the Clinton campaign with a mere technical matter.

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    5. 11:54 Nobody believes paying a porn star to keep quiet about sex is an assault on democracy. This is the result of blue tribe accepting “Trump is Hitler” framework – you can then justify any immoral blue tribe conduct as “Did it to stop Hitler”. Half the country does not agree with this framing and are aghast.

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    6. If you don't count women as human beings, what Trump did is almost a victimless crime.

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    7. Corruption is a major characteristic of any of the so-called "representative democracies". From the Roman Republic to the Weimar Republic (aka German Reich) to most places in the world in our days.

      So, no, no one "assaulted" anything. Not even Alvin Bragg. It's all par to the course.

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    8. you can then justify any immoral RED tribe conduct as “Did it to stop Commie Democrats”

      I have been observing this from republicans since Nixon, thru Reagan and Bush and now Trump. Tell me all about it.

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    9. "Half the country does not agree with this framing and are aghast."
      So your argument is that half the country believe "Trump is Hitler". Nice defense of the Republican Presidential nominee. Are you a lawyer, like AC/MA?

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    10. The charges Trump faces under the indictment include:

      31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
      1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
      1 count of withholding a document or record
      1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
      1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
      1 count of scheme to conceal
      and
      1 count of making false statements and representations.

      A superseding indictment was unsealed on July 27, 2023, which charged an additional defendant, Carlos De Oliveira, and included three additional charges against Trump of evidence tampering, willfully retaining national defense information, and lying to investigators.
      ***********

      How anyone could ever consider handing the most powerful office in the world to a man who was capable of doing that is beyond me, but fuck yeah, he is a clear and present danger to our democratic republic.

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    11. If only he was a well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory.

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    12. 12:44,
      Who also had strict control of the minds of the Manhattan DA's office and 12 randomly selected Manhattanites.

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    13. Hector @12:19 links us to an interesting bit of history. Six years after the 2016 election, the FEC fined the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign for misidentifying money paid to the campaign's legal team for opposition research.

      Guess who was all in favor of this regulatory action?

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    14. QiB - but no Democrat was convicted of a felony for misidentifying money paid to the campaign's legal team for opposition research.

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    15. Also Trump’s misdemeanors were 7years old. Beyond the statute of limitations

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    16. It was still listed as a campaign expense, they didn't falsify personal business records and falsify tax reporting, David. When is that going to penetrate your fucking thick skull?

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    17. It was listed as a personal business records, he didn't falsify campaign expenses.

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    18. Right, he falsified his personal business records to hide the payout.

      GOP commissioners have single-handedly blocked FEC action against Trump 29 times

      As of December 2023, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) has received 59 allegations that Donald Trump or his committees violated the Federal Election Campaign Act. In 29 of those cases, nonpartisan staff in the FEC’s Office of General Counsel (OGC) recommended the FEC investigate Trump. Yet not once has a Republican FEC commissioner voted to approve any such investigation or enforcement of the law against Trump.
      https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/gop-commissioners-have-single-handedly-blocked-fec-action-against-trump-29-times/


      But sonofabitch, they all were perfectly happy to slap the Clinton campaign with a mere technical matter.

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    19. As for the taxes, he didn't follow some rules - state rules - for reporting reimbursements. Horrors, horrors.

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    20. Right, Clinton falsified her campaign records to hide the payout.

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    21. It was a campaign expense. Op research isn't illegal you fucking maggot mutt.

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    22. DiC: Had the FEC been allowed to do its job, I wonder if DA Bragg's case would have ever gained any traction. We'll never know.

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    23. Signing an nda is not illegal, idiot-moonbat.

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    24. QiB: Also, too, the Dems took their lumps and paid the fines. They didn't turn the charges against them into an imaginary conspiracy.

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    25. It was accurately reported to the FEC as a campaign expense, contrary to the contortions Donald J Chickenshit went thru to falsify his business records.

      The Clinton campaign and DNC had argued that the payments had been described accurately, but agreed, according to the documents, to settle without conceding to avoid further legal costs.

      A DNC spokesperson played down the decision, saying: “We settled aging and silly complaints from the 2016 election about ‘purpose descriptions’ in our FEC report.”

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    26. Right. Trust me: had H.Clinton been charged with felony, "the vast right-wing conspiracy" would've been on every front page, and non-stop on every tv channel.

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    27. We all know that, maggot mao, that isn't what Donald J Chickenshit, convicted felon, was charged with.

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    28. What would the felony have been, asshole maggot?

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    29. In the end, Donald Trump paid for his personal nda from his personal business funds. But instead of "reimbursement" he recorded it in his personal business records as "lawyer's fee".

      And that's, naturally, 34 felonies, retarded idiot-moonbat.

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    30. The FEC found that Trump and Cohen had committed fraud but the Republican commissioners refused to pursue the case, unlike with Clinton.

      So if anything it shows partisan commissioners playing politics by going after Clinton, but not Trump.

      Ironically, if they had gone after Trump as they did with Clinton, Trump may have avoided this conviction.

      The DANY has prosecuted nearly 10,000 similar cases in the last ten years alone, including cases that involved election interference.

      There is no credible defense of Trump in this case, he did the crime, and now he has to pay his debt to society.

      Right wingers turning into crybabies, whining that their hero has to face responsibility, is just pathetic, and it is going to result in them losing even more credibility and respect. Somerby says we should pity these wounded lost souls, but that is just letting them get away with their corruption; we know the root cause, we should work to resolve it, not excuse it.

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    31. Yes, that is correct, he falsified his business record 34 times. Big fat dumbass that he is. Tell us again how smart he is.

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    32. The FEC did not find that Trump and Cohen committed fraud.

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    33. It's only because Alvin Bragg and Juan Merchan are real super-geniuses. Albert Einsteins of sorts.

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    34. "Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations"

      That means Cohen was found to have committed campaign finance violations. Whether you call that fraud or not, it is untrue that the FEC didn't charge Cohen with crimes involving contributions.

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    35. FEC doesn't charge anyone with anything.

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  12. Somerby used to say he identified with Cassandra. These days he seems to be identifying with Trump instead. Can someone foretell the future if they cannot remember the past?

    Many of the brutal practices of the past, such as whipping, cutting off hands, branding people, hanging them, occurred because they did not have the facilities or resources (food especially) to imprison someone for a crime. It was routine for criminals, even murderers to be required to make restitution to their victims (via money and goods or sometimes labor on their farms). Imprisonment came into vogue when socieities were wealthier. It was considered a more humane form of punishment, although families were required to pay the costs of a relative's imprisonment or else their property (land and goods) was seized.

    I doubt Somerby knows much about prior ways of handling crimes, such as private police forces that preceded public ones, or alternatives to hanging or transportation to the colonies (from England), or accused persons fleeing to Europe as fugitives (as people used to flee to Mexico from the US after committing crimes). He seems to be making shit up, about both Troy and the 1800s and about today's justice system.

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  13. "The Clinton campaign properly reported the payments as campaign expenses, not falsifying f---ing business expenses. Big difference."

    Indeed. One shudders at the moral chaos that would result if payments pursuant to an NDA were allowed to be described as legal expenses on the books of a non-publicly traded company.

    Truly, Bragg has saved us from the apocalypse.

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    1. "De-fund the police", indeed.

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    2. Because the NDA payments were reported as business expenses, they were not disclosed as in-kind contributions by Cohen to Trump's campaign. That is a violation of FEC and New York state election rules. Cohen contributed $150 and was illegally reimbursed by Trump for making that excess contribution (above the $2600 per person limit). The damage is the violation of election laws not business fraud. It was election fraud. Because Trump listed a fake legal services retainer in his business records, he paid less tax on his business and that was tax fraud. The damage there is not to potential investors in Trump's firm but to the State of New York, the public, which received less in taxes than it should have.

      When a single business screws up, it may be a small amount to consider, but when many businesses engage in fraud, it can amount to serious damage. The damages over time due to Trump's other business fraud was estimated at over $400 million in the civil case Trump recently lost. So dismissing this as trivial is inappropriate in trump's case.

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    3. "That is a violation of FEC and New York state election rules."

      Trump has never been shown, by the FEC or any court or official body, to have committed an election finance law violation.

      In the recent trial, the jury was instructed by Merchan they could find Trump guilty even if they didn't find that the 'underlying crime' had actually occurred.

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    4. That’s because of the cover up. The fact of the cover up prevents proving the other crime. Cohen pled guilty to the crime Trump covered up with his falsification of the reimbursement records.

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    5. No. You can argue that the 'business records' were a coverup, but the facts are now all known; there is a substantial paper trail of what took place.

      Trump either committed election fraud or he didn't, he wasn't stopped on his way to comit election fraud.

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    6. I think their "theory" is that he "believed" he was covering up a crime (or crimes). Whether that "crime" (or any number of "crimes") was actually committed is irrelevant. On their planet, that is.

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  14. And can we in our wildest imaginings think that Bob has, for an instant, considered the other side of the coin: what if Trump is allowed to go unpunished? Does that send a message to the Nation about itself?
    Obviously, Bob hasn’t considered such a question, at least not in a fashion he will share with his readers. My guess is it won’t matter, The Florida case, for one, will come to trial. Will Bob continue to make an ass of himself pretending there is nothing to the charges? Probably.
    The actual, serious question Bob brushes up against is how does the right come back from this state of dementia? That does deserve serious pondering, but you won’t find it here.

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