THURSDAY, JANUARY 8, 2026
...the president followed suit: Yesterday morning, all too clearly, it started with Kristi Noem.
The story-shaping has continued from there, including a ludicrous performance on yesterday's edition of The Five. In fairness, the story-shaping—the sifting of elementary facts—extended into the opening segment of today's Morning Joe.
In the aftermath of yesterday's fatal shooting, it was Rashomon on steroids--Rashomon all the way down!
Indeed, the Rashomon was general over what's left of the American discourse. Just to make that reference clear, the leading authority on Rashomon clumsily says that the famous film famously teaches this:
Rashomon
Rashomon is a 1950 Japanese film directed by Akira Kurosawa... It follows various people who describe how a samurai was murdered in a forest. Every element is largely identical, from the murdered samurai speaking through a Shinto psychic to the bandit in the forest, the monk, the assault of the wife, and the dishonest retelling of the events in which everyone shows their ideal self by [offering a different version of the events in question].
That's a clumsily stated overview, but it might start to convey the film's well-known basic idea. We've replaced the word "lying" at the end of that thumbnail account.
Rashomon is often said to preach the view that there is so obvious way to agree on a single, simple account of a set of events. Yesterday, the problem started with the latest ludicrous performance by Noem, but it certainly didn't end there.
It extended into Morning Joe, but also into weirdly sanitized reporting in today's New York Times. All in all, we'd say that this varied set of performances says that we the humans simply weren't built for this line of work.
The anthropology here is quite clear. But let's start at the beginning:
Yesterday morning, Noem staged her latest fashion show down in Brownsville, Texas. We'll assume that someone had misinformed her, but she rushed out to offer this absurd account of the Minneapolis shooting:
NOEM (1/7/25): It was an act of domestic terrorism. What happened was our ICE officers were out in enforcement action. They got stuck in the snow because of the adverse weather that is in Minneapolis.
They were attempting to push out their vehicle and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over and rammed them with her vehicle. An officer of ours acted quickly and defensively shot to protect himself and the people around him. And my understanding is that she was hit and is deceased.
So said the routinely ludicrous Noem, from beneath her giant hat.
We'll assume that Noem herself had been misinformed by someone. That said, no one had been "stuck in the snow" in connection with the fatal shooting, and the ICE officers in question hadn't been "attempting to push out their vehicle" at any point in the course of what occurred.
Noem looked fetching in her hat, but those statements were absurdly inaccurate. Debate could imaginably surround her additional claims--her claims that the late Renee Good had "attempted to run [the ICE officers] over" and had "rammed them with her vehicle."
In our view, those claims are extremely far-fetched, but we could imagine a different assessment. The other claims which emerged from Noem—the claims about being stuck in the snow—were baldly, absurdly inaccurate.
That said, Noem is no stranger to inaccurate claims, even to claims which seem to be utterly crazy. You may recall the lunatic story she told Jesse Watters in late June of last year—and yes, she actually told this crazy story about one ICE detainee:
NOEM (6/27/25): Listen, Jesse, you calling these guys "bad hombres"—they really are. I was talking to a U.S. Marshall just yesterday, and he was talking about the fact that they were deporting a planeload of illegals and one of them was a cannibal.
And he kind of said it off-handed, and I said to him, 'What do you—what do you mean, it was a cannibal?" And he said, "Well we put him on the plane, put him in his seat, and he started to eat his own arms, he was such a deranged individual."
This is the kind of people that President Trump is getting off of our streets—people who are murderers and rapists and, and are deranged individuals, that we are working to get out of the country as fast as possible.
Noem went on, at some length, about the story she said she'd been told. To show the challenges faced by ICE, she told Watters this:
ICE had been deporting a planeload of detainees. In an attempt to free himself from the handcuffs which restrained him, one of them, a cannibal, had attempted to eat his own arm!
Incredibly, Noem actually said that—and she seemed to think it made sense. Three days later, at Florida's new Alligator Alcatraz, she told this same crazy story, in substantial detail, once again!
(For our real-time report about this crazy pair of recitations, you can just click here.)
What could be going through the mind of someone who tells, then repeats, such a ridiculous story? What could be going through the mind of someone who seems to believe such a ridiculous tale?
We don't have the slightest idea. But yesterday morning, vamping in Texas, there Noem went again.
In fairness, we'll assume that someone had misinformed Noem about yesterday's fatal shooting. But having failed to fact-check what she'd been told, she rushed out to start a chain of inaccurate and/or selective presentations about that shooting.
As part of that, she even made the dramatic claim that Renee Good had been involved in "an act of domestic terrorism." She didn't know what the weather had been. But true to the demands of storyline, Noem was prepared to rush right out and offer the world that story.
Yesterday morning, Noem went first. Plainly, she didn't have the slightest idea concerning what had actually happened, but she rushed out and spoke anyway.
Soon, it was the president's turn.
The president's account was offered in a Truth Social post. Pathetically but inevitably, the most powerful person in the world was now saying this:
Truth Details
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I have just viewed the clip of the event which took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is a horrible thing to watch. The woman screaming was, obviously, a professional agitator, and the woman driving the car was very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, willfully, and viciously ran over the ICE Officer, who seems to have shot her in self defense. Based on the attached clip, it is hard to believe he is alive, but is now recovering in the hospital. The situation is being studied, in its entirety, but the reason these incidents are happening is because the Radical Left is threatening, assaulting, and targeting our Law Enforcement Officers and ICE Agents on a daily basis. They are just trying to do the job of MAKING AMERICA SAFE. We need to stand by and protect our Law Enforcement Officers from this Radical Left Movement of Violence and Hate!
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
Yes, that's actually what he said. Now for some clarification:
In the videotape of the fatal shooting, a woman is heard screaming at the ICE officers—first as they attempt to force Renee Good out of her car, then after one of them has fatally shot her. In his account of what he saw, the president starts with a ludicrous assumption about that woman, then proceeds to the crazily inaccurate claim that Good "viciously ran over the ICE Officer."
A person might say this:
Only a badly disordered person could fail to imagine an innocent reason for that woman's (horrified) screaming. Beyond that, and obviously:
Good did not "run over" any ICE officer in the course of yesterday's events. In fact, no one got "run over" by anyone's car in the course of this fatal shooting.
That said, crazily inaccurate, poisonous claims are nothing new to this president. As we noted last week, he has also made these claims:
In July 2019, on the very day that Jeffrey Epstein died, he took to Twitter to say or suggest that Bill and Hillary Clinton had somehow been involved in Epstein's death. There was absolutely zero basis for that poisonous presentation, but the sitting president rushed out to make it all the same.
Also this:
This past summer, the sitting president returned to a somewhat similar claim—to the poisonous claim that Bill Clinton had made more than two dozen trips to Jeffrey Epstein's island! There's zero basis for that poisonous claim, but the president returned to it anyway, even after it had been repeatedly refuted by major fact check organizations.
Yesterday's fatal shooting vastly complicated the story we were trying to tell this week. For today, we'll merely offer this:
When Kristi Noem told her ludicrous story about the fellow who tried to eat his own arm—when she told that story two separate times—major orgs in Blue America agreed to let the craziness go. So too with the poisonous and crazy claims the poisonous president has been making for the past fifteen years.
Something is badly wrong with this president. That basic fact has always been right there for all to see.
That basic fact has never been hidden or disguised. That said, no one has dared to say the obvious:
t's time for this nutcase, or perhaps for this liar, to go.
Timorous journalists have all looked away! Tomorrow, we'll continue from here.
Tomorrow: Is it a matter of "mental illness?" Or is it a question of "character?"
According to Scott Adams, a thousand whistle-blowers told the State of MN about the ongoing fraud. The state government covered it up. I don't know what h8s source was.
ReplyDeleteIf this is accurate, this killing is fortunate for Gov Walz and his minions. They will do whatever they can to blow up the killing and distract from the fraud.
Go take a flying fuck, you worthless piece of shit fascist troll.
Delete“this killing is fortunate for Gov. Walz”
DeleteYou’re a sick man, DiC.
Tell me again about those who did not properly mourn Charlie Kirk.
DeleteScott Adams? Really? That's where you get your accurate information? Shouldn't this asshole die already.
DeleteThis killing is fortunate? A mother was murdered in cold blood, and it's a good day in politics. It never ceases to amaze me the moral cesspool that the Trump cult inhabits.
David, do you know how many defendants were charged, tried, and sentenced in the Minnesota fraud investigation--all before Chris Rufo chose to stir this pot again?
DeleteI have a shiny Jefferson nickel that says you can't say.
The MN fraud was masterminded by Aimee Bock, an American White Christian woman who was the founder and director of the organization that ran the fraud; the fraud was discovered by the Walz admin who then turned it over to the feds so that the fraud was then prosecuted by the Biden admin.
DeleteAimee Bock is now convicted, but investigators are still finding new amounts that she stole, just the other day they uncovered $5.2 million in assets, with more expected as they dig deeper.
Is it Aimee Bock also known as Corby, finger-sniffing cat-lady?
DeleteThat's what two people familiar with the matter tell me.
When would she have time, with all that scamming to do? I think you are Corby.
DeleteAimee Bock is the American White Christian woman that was the mastermind, ringleader, and major beneficiary of the MN fraud case.
DeleteHer fraud was discovered by the Walz admin and then prosecuted by the Biden admin.
Any common crook can lie about their criminal behavior if there aren't multiple videos of the act. It takes a special kind of shameless motherfucking world champion bullshit artist to brazenly lie when the evidence all points to him being a liar.
ReplyDeleteAmen.
DeleteBob, autosarcophagy” is a thing…
ReplyDelete“ t's time for this nutcase, or perhaps for this liar, to go.”
DeleteAll of us, including the anonymous critics of Bob, agree with this statement.
What is your problem?
Trump is only perhaps a liar? If anything has been established many times over, it is that Trump lies. How can Somerby still have any doubt about that?
Delete"If this is accurate, this killing is fortunate for Gov Walz and his minions."
ReplyDeletePropriety aside, this analysis seems to rest on the mistaken idea that that pea-brain wandering around with a cameraman had exposed or uncovered something by not understanding why day care centers keep their doors locked.
ReplyDelete"Incredibly, Noem actually said that—and she seemed to think it made sense. Three days later, at Florida's new Alligator Alcatraz, she told this same crazy story, in substantial detail, once again!"
That's a crazy story? That's nothing, Bob.
Have you heard one about women trapped in men's bodies?
Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you maggots, the first thing to pop into you brain is how much you fucking hate trans. YOu are all monsters
DeleteTriggered, Hillary?
DeleteTriggered, Ghislaine?
DeleteHillary?
DeleteAre you kidding me?
These trolls are so out of touch.
"We'll assume that someone had misinformed her."
ReplyDeleteWhy? She an inveterate liar disseminating bullshit for an administration in which lying is basic policy She's doing what she's paid to do.
I agree, it's possible that someone misinformed her, but there is no reason to assume that. Trump and team have been spouting alternative facts since they arrived on the scene.
DeleteNoem has been trying to suggest an excuse to the agent. If he had PTSD from a prior car encounter, she is suggesting, then he should be excused because he was afraid. That is how the cop escaped prosecution in the Michael Brown shooting.
DeleteWe lived in Ferguson. M Brown was a fuck-up and he fucked up some, but should not have been murdered. Best I can tell he got his hand on the officers gun while the officer was in his patrol car and it went off. Cop then lost his shit, got out, and emptied his revolver into him. The cover-up by STL County and Obama DOJ was disgusting.
DeleteIn Roshomon, the events weren't videoed. The ICE fucker needs to be charged with murder and let's hope they have death penalty in MN.
ReplyDeleteHere's an interesting question: has ICE murdered and maimed more people in the last year than millions of undocumented residents? I think so.
Wife's Facebook relatives are all in on the lie. This is real serious messed up Orwellian stuff. We all can see what happened. Why do half of us go along with the big lie? I thought there were limits. I thought America was better than 1930 Germany. What does it take to break the spell?
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html
Trump lies and Noem lies. Who knew?
ReplyDeleteCannibal? Trump eats shit – so is he a cannibal?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIs this going to put an end to the phenomenon of retarded Democrat cat-ladies enthusiastically harassing immigration-control officers, for no apparent reason? Or not?
Discuss.
oh ha ha ha, you fucking maggot incel. cat lady get shot in the face, so fucking funny. let's pray for the fat fucking murdering piece of shit Nazi who murdered her
DeleteIt was hilarious when Babbitt's brains were splattered.
DeleteA wiman with 3 young kids isn’t going to also have cats. Too much work.
DeleteI’d wager that it will make protestors a bit more nervous when they block traffic. “Oops, guys! I was just attempting a Uie.”
ReplyDeleteBut will it, as a Soros-monkey put it yesterday, stop Democrat-zombie apocalypse?
DeleteLet's hope it will.
JFC. You're right, CC. Killing people will make others more nervous. What the fuck is wrong with you?
DeleteI guess you'd like us to transition from "America, Home of the Brave!" to "America, Home of the Docile!"
DeleteDG, so we’re agreed.
DeleteEnding mass-harassment of immigration-control officers is a matter of considerable public interest, Soros-bot.
DeleteSomething's gotta give.
So are the First Amendment rights to assemble and speak. Bearing witness is not "mass-harassment."
DeleteAssemble and speak? Not mass-harassment?
DeleteDenial is not a river in Egypt, Soros-bot.
Did any of you watch the videos?
DeleteNot only did the shooting fail to scare the protestors, they bravely got right in the faces of Trump's fascist thugs and shamed those thugs and more importantly got video of what actually happened and made sure to get video of the murderer. The murderer may not face consequences from our justice system - rigged as it is - but he will forever be a pariah in our society, rightly harassed wherever he dares to go.
It is unsurprising that Cecelia, a foreign troll with English as a second language, is unfamiliar with how normal American citizens respond to being threatened; we do not back down easily.
Apparently Cecelia also is a man pretending to be a woman.
And now she is pretending to be Corby AND Somerby’s interpreter (Lord knows he needs one). Rashomon? Give us a break!
DeleteMs Good’s death, was a tragedy. As far as I can tell there was no justification for the ICE agent to shoot her. People are right to be upset.
ReplyDeleteHowever, IMO her death is being built up to be more important than other deaths – deaths that I would consider no less important. The one whose name I know is Ashli Babbit. A number of people died in traffic accidents caused by illegal immigrant truck drivers who didn’t speak English. A number of illegal immigrants were murderers. It’s possible that they may have murdered some Americans. There are no demonstrations for these accident victims or illegal immigrant murder victims.
Her death was murder; manslaughter to be a little more legalistic, or murder 2. Simple.
DeleteYou have intellectually impaired to compare it to an accident. No one is stupid enough to buy this shit, David, unless you're a cultist. No sane person can compare a cold-blooded murder to an accident.
The Ashli Babbit comparison is apt in that she was not armed with a gun or with an SUV. I believe the officer was given an award for shooting.
DeleteBabbit was armed with a huge mob right behind her trying to break into the Speaker's Lobby so they could kill Pelosi.
DeleteI agree that the ICE agent who shot Ms Good may have committed manslaughter. Although the ICE agent is 100% legally responsible for Ms. Good's death, IMO Ms. Good does share a bit of moral responsibility. According to an eye-witness, she had chosen to go out and interfere with law enforcement personnel who were doing their job. That's morally wrong and, I believe, it's a crime. OTOH the people killed in accidents caused by illegal immigrant truck drivers bear no moral responsibility at all.
DeleteDG, the cop should have had a machine gun?
DeleteFrom the POV view of pragmatism, ICE is saving American lives. The tragic death of Ms Good notwithstanding.
DeleteThose who organized this campaign of mass-harassment of immigration-control officers, and recruited retarded Democrat cat-ladies to do it, are 100% responsible for any and all consequences.
DeleteBabbit was in the process of breaking the law. She posed an actual danger. She was shot by a cop who was specifically there to protect the Capitol against people like her. She burst into the building, where she was not supposed to be at that time, through a broken window. Having said that, I still have compassion for her.
DeleteGoode shares no moral responsibility for her death, you goddamn Nazi apologists. This is the intellectual, moral, emotional dead zone to which I have alluded multiple times. There's dead silence in your brains as you type your meaningless words. Nothing. You, David and Cecelia, represent the worst of the Nazi apologists. The term "banality of evil" describes you to a tee.
Any crime Good could possibly have committed was not a capital crime. But that's really beside the point, isn't it?
DeleteTrump said Good ran her car over the the ICE officer who shot her. Noem said that ICE officers were pushing their car out of the snow when Good rammed them. These are the purest of pure falsehoods. My question to you: Why believe anything these two or their minions say?
It has been said that ICE agents, as a group, tend not to be terribly competent. Their selection and training are only so-so.
DeleteHaving noticed this, many people draw exactly the wrong conclusion. The right conclusion is that we should go out of our way to help ICE people do their jobs. They need our help. The very last thing we should is to behave in ways that make their jobs more difficult.
go take a flying fuck, Dickhead.
Delete"The very last thing we should is to behave in ways that make their jobs more difficult."
DeleteYes, and in 1938 it was the duty of all good Germans to help the SS round up the undesirables, right?
Delete"Any crime Good could possibly have committed was not a capital crime."
The harassment campaign has been going on for about a year.
It's been obvious that, statistically, something like this was going to happen eventually.
And I bet the Democrat party bosses and their sponsors wanted it to happen, and now they are happy as a clam. They can now start organizing riots and collecting donations, like in 2020.
ICE made this very point after Judge Dugan helped a wanted person escape capture. Capturing someone can involve risk to the perp, to the ICE agents and to the public. What Judge Dugan did increased that risk and the chance of harm. Similarly, Ms. Good and her colleagues behaved in a way that increased the chance of harm.
DeleteThat's right. Let's prosecute Good for murdering herself.
DeleteDogface, you are implicitly assuming that US immigration law is as unjust as Hitler's concentration camp laws. Nonsense. US immigration law is like every other country's: people not legally allowed to remain can't remain.
DeleteBut seriously: Yes, it takes courage to bear witness to ICE atrocities. You might die.
DeleteAnd then Noem and Trump will lie about you, and DiC will say that it's regretable, but in the bigger picture it's all for the greater good.
DeleteDogface - You know that these activists were not just bearing witness. They were interfering with ICE.
Delete
Delete2:21 "But seriously..."
You're not serious. What atrocities? What are you talking about? Unauthorized visitors need to leave. That's the law. In every country on Earth. Okay, maybe not in Somalia, but they are all here anyway.
Deporting unauthorized visitors is no atrocity. And if you don't want to be deported, self-deport, end of story. Okay?
How did that approach work out for the Indians when they told the Pilgrims to self-deport?
DeleteI don't see how this applies to a woman who was a US citizen just driving down the street in her car, then attempting to comply with conflicting ICE commands until they shot her. She wasn't Somalian or unauthorized or even a visitor. Are American citizens not allowed to drive cars on public streets any more? I can imagine myself turning at the wrong corner and finding myself in her predicament. Are we all now subject to being shot at random by govt agents?
DeleteAlso too, Babbitt had a knife assfucks.
DeleteObserving LE is not a crime, in fact it is a right established by the Constitution and affirmed by federal courts.
DeleteThe trolls here are foreigners, they are unfamiliar with our laws, which is why they repeatedly make ignorant claims.
Delete"I believe the officer was given an award for shooting" You lie Cecelia, zero integrity.
DeleteDickhead, Judge Dugan did no such thing you lying POS.
DeleteIt's not that complicated. We are watching fundamentally bad people -- sociopaths -- act out with no constraints imposed on them. These people have no moral or ethical compass. Unsurprisingly, to a normal person their behavior is jarring. Morally-damaged, intellectually-crippled, scared people, such as some of the denizens of this blog, rush in to justify the unjustifiable.
ReplyDeleteIlya, law enforcement is trained to think like law enforcement. When they tell you stop and get out of of your car and your response is full steam ahead while a officer is forced to jump out of your way, their assumptions of your intentions and mindset are as negative as negative can be. That’s the nature of their job.
DeleteICE is not fucking law enforcement, you dumb bitch. and the fat beer belly fascists they are hiring are certainly not trained, maggot.
DeleteICE is law enforcement, tough guy.
Deletethey have no right to enforce local traffic laws by blowing a woman away, you dumb fascist bitch
DeleteThat was Corby, @1:30. She's off her meds again.
DeleteAs Corby gets more and more agitated, eventually the orderlies will take away her internet privileges, for a day or two. Sniffing fingers will calm her down.
DeleteICE is not fucking law enforcement, you dumb bitch.
Delete^This, Cecelia. You should write it on the black/whiteboard one hundred times, a la Bart Simpson, to make sure you understand. I doubt that you will. Again, you're one of those intellectually-challenged, morally-bankrupt denizens of this blog, to whom I referred. Normally, I'd be amused watching mental midgets defend the indefensible. In this particular case, whether because I am a parent myself and I actually have the mental capacity to understand the utter devastation that was wrought -- and not by accident -- I find it entirely unamusing.
Anonymouse 1:35pm, so you’re under the impression that what went down was a routine traffic stop. You are a sage and a moral paragon.
DeleteYeah, just a routine traffic stop where the fascist pig tries to drag out a woman from behind the wheel of a moving car, you fucking fascist bitch.
DeleteIlya, it’s always gratifying to be called names for being in position of not instantly complying when you run something up the flagpole and demand that we all salute it. Let me say that if the ruling is that the ICE agent was wrong, I’ll go with that. Depending upon the information after an investigation, I’Il settle for the verdict even if I still don’t feel I can salute it. I won’t be out on the street throwing soup cans at the heads of cops or justifying that behavior by others. You?
DeleteInvestigation by who, bitch?
DeleteMinnesota investigators say the FBI has blocked them from accessing evidence in the deadly ICE shooting
By WCCO Staff
Updated on: January 8, 2026 / 11:57 AM CST / CBS Minnesota
Add CBS News on Google
The Minnesota agency tasked with investigating the killing of a U.S. citizen by an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent has withdrawn from the case, alleging federal authorities have restricted its access to evidence.
Anonymouse 1:49pm, ICE doesn’t do routine traffic stops and that wasn’t the scenario of that was going down on that street at that time.
DeleteAnonymouse 1:56pm, oh, you have trouble with that? Look up the Arctic Frost investigation.
DeleteLook up the Jeffrey Epstein coverup, you fascist bitch.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:15pm, I don’t go to those sites, bitch. I don’t want computer cooties.
DeleteCalling everyone you disagree with "Corby" is a waste of comment space. Deal with the content and leave the nyms to Somerby. He can change how the comments operate if he wants to. He apparently doesn't want to.
Delete"Let me say that if the ruling is that the ICE agent was wrong..."
DeleteWhat more do you need to see?
Just prior to the murder, the ICE perp deliberately places himself in front of the car.
As he draws his gun, the wheels of the woman's car are turned in such a way that she will not contact the murderer. THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T GET OUT OF THE WAY, because he knows he's in no danger of being harmed by the car.
He shoots through the windshield once; the second shot is through the driver side window as the car is passing him by, and the third is literally as she's driving away, fleeing the scene in panic.
Anonymouse 2:25pm, none that means that Bob has put you in charge.
DeleteCecelia is Corby. Somerby put her in charge, because of all the bots here, she best understands his mind.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:33pm, no, I just go by what Somerby says, not by what anonymices say that he said, or didn’t say, or should have said, or should not have said…
DeleteAs he draws his gun, the wheels of the woman's car are turned in such a way that she will not contact the murderer. THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T GET OUT OF THE WAY, because he knows he's in no danger of being harmed by the car.
DeleteI face more danger multiple times a day crossing the street.
Cecelia is Corby. She just said exactly what Corby says. Somerby doesn't say anything, so it cannot be true that Cecelia is repeating Somerby's thoughts. She is such a liar.
DeleteCecelia you really know fuckall but you prattle on anyway. Proper law enforcement training teaches the officers to de-escalate. There is absolutely no protocol for shooting the poor woman if she leaves. ICE are untrained goobers who know they will pay no consequence for murdering people. You still a dumb sick bigoted nasty fucking fascist, I'll give you that.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:08pm, yes, Corby not only developed the obscure philosophy of taking someone (Bob) at his word, she expanded that principle to include whatever she conveniently abstracts from his words. Her conclusions are to be hallowed. I don’t take things that far, but I see that you do and are quite the Corby disciple.
DeleteAnonmouse 3:29pm, I’d wager that it’s fairly hard for law enforcement to de-escalate someone in a vehicle and ignoring their commands to stop. I’d wager that the initial thought of the officer was that “this woman is trying to kill me” as she moved forward in her vehicle towards him. Was she? I don’t know. As always, anonymices find it hard to live with that effrontery. So?
DeleteCecelia is unfamiliar with how America operates.
DeleteIn America, a citizen is not required to obey any law enforcement officer unless that officer establishes probable cause or reasonable suspicion.
Compliance is in fact not mandatory.
Hector says, "As he draws his gun, the wheels of the woman's car are turned in such a way that she will not contact the murderer. THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T GET OUT OF THE WAY"
DeleteThe reality, Hector, is that we don't yet know why Officer Ross didn't get out of the way. You're probably right, but when he pulled the gun the tires were still facing towards him - the wheels were in mid-turn. He can plausibly deny knowing that the wheels were turning further to the right when he fired his first shot. (He'll have a much harder time explaining the second and third shots.)
Delete"In America, a citizen is not required to obey any law enforcement officer unless that officer establishes probable cause or reasonable suspicion."
Your retardation is rapidly progressing, Corby.
"I’d wager that the initial thought of the officer was that “this woman is trying to kill me” as she moved forward in her vehicle towards him."
DeleteIf that were true, he would have tried to get out of the way. But he didn't. So you lose your wager.
Corby is Cecelia.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:51pm, but there’s no “reasonable suspicion” platform for officers firing their guns at someone who refused to stop their vehicle with a cop standing in front of it. In that instant the cop is supposed to lean down and check out her tire placement.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:01pm, wow. You’re on the outs with Corby. Was it one too many swats to your hand with her ruler?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHector, I think the fact that Ross didn't try to get out of the way is very strong, but not conclusive beyond a reasonable doubt, evidence showing that he did not feel threatened that he might be run over by the car. I see no justification for the second and third shots. Shooting a fleeing suspect who poses no physical threat is not justifiable. So perhaps it will all come down to which bullet was fatal.
DeleteCecelia, Google - NYT video review of ICE Good Minneapolis Shooting - and have a can of shut the fuck up you lying piece of shit.
DeleteDogface George - look at the NYT video review. He did not get out of the way as he was not in the way. FFS. I expect better of you.
Delete4:30 - I think he can plausibly say that when he first drew and fired he did not know that he wasn't in the car's path. I think he'd be lying, because I think he'd have jumped out of the way, like Hector says, but we're talking about what he was perceiving and thinking, and he's the only percipient witness.
DeleteAnd remember: He's focused on the driver, not on the wheels.
Delete"In America, a citizen is not required to obey any law enforcement officer unless that officer establishes probable cause or reasonable suspicion."
DeleteThis is in fact correct, sorry if you do not know the law.
George, Ross would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he *reasonably* felt an imminent threat and had in this particular case no reasonable opportunity to escape; that fact that he put himself in that position, caused the danger himself, that he then did not merely step aside, kills his case. If an officer deliberately puts themselves in harm's way by stepping in front of a non-threatening vehicle, it can be seen as reckless. In such cases, it would be reasonable to argue that the officer had a duty to avoid creating danger. Should an officer initiate a dangerous scenario only to justify using lethal force, their actions are likely to face significant legal scrutiny. The justification of using force would then not exist.
Having said all that, it would come down if MN files charges and if Ross does not take a plea deal then it would be up to a jury to decide. Juries are fickle, for example juries in WI and FL have decided in favor of perpetrators in somewhat similar cases; however, in MN there is a precedent of convicting law enforcement for unreasonably killing a citizen.
And it's my guess that his violent over-reaction stems from PTSD resulting from his earlier incident of being dragged by a car for 100 feet. It made him jumpy, I would guess.
Delete"It made him jumpy, I would guess."
DeleteYou could also say murderous.
5:02. Actually, I have to tell you that it is you who doesn't seem to know the law. A police officer can demand that a driver step out of their vehicle if there's a lawful stop. And Ross doesn't have the burden of proving anything at all; it is the prosecution's burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Ross was not acting in self defense.
Delete"It made him jumpy, I would guess" Still a murderer, I would guess. What is your opinion of the NYT video review?
Delete5:13 - It wouldn't surprise me if that were true.
DeleteWatch the NYT video.
DeleteNo, George.
DeleteTrue, typically, defendants are presumed innocent, and the prosecution must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This applies generally to all criminal cases.
However, in cases where an officer uses deadly force, if they invoke self-defense or justification, they bear the burden of proving that their actions were reasonable under the circumstances.
This shift occurs because the facts of the case (the shooting itself) are often not in dispute. Ross shot the woman; the question becomes whether the shooting was justified.
Since the prosecution would argue that the use of deadly force was unwarranted, if Ross aims to avoid liability, he must demonstrate that he reasonably perceived an imminent threat that warranted his response.
The unique nature of use-of-force cases, especially involving law enforcement, means that while the defendant maintains the presumption of innocence, the burden shifts to them regarding claims of justification. The facts surrounding the shooting’s justification become critical to the case and can complicate the traditional understanding of the presumption of innocence.
If Ross cannot prove that his actions were justified, it would lead to a conviction despite the overarching principle that defendants start off presumed innocent.
It would come down to a jury, and juries in some areas might not convict Ross - maybe in WI or FL - but juries in MN have a history of convicting law enforcement in a similar case.
In the case where Ross was dragged, he again was the aggressor, himself creating a dangerous circumstance - Ross pulled over a potential undocumented immigrant in a vehicle, the driver complied, but the driver then refused to roll down his window so Ross broke the window and reached inside, the driver instinctively drove off dragging Ross which then caused Ross to need 20 stitches in his right arm and 13 stitches in his left hand - DHS says he was dragged about 50 yards.
There is no way this incident credibly traumatized Ross; Ross was the aggressor - he is an aggressive and violent person, this earlier case offers no exoneration, it implicates him even more as it points to a pattern of behavior.
"However, in cases where an officer uses deadly force, if they invoke self-defense or justification, they bear the burden of proving that their actions were reasonable under the circumstances."
DeleteWrong. In a murder trial, the defendant-police office might have a burden of production, but not the burden of proof.
Trump: "It is hard to believe he is alive, but is now recovering in the hospital."
ReplyDeleteWhy the fuck do you think King Chickenshit said that?
Apparently, Trump lies.
DeleteWho knew?
(Somerby pretends to not know)
Trump lies, zero integrity.
DeleteTimorous journalists did not all look away, as Somerby claims. Somerby apparently reads only a limited segment of the press and misses the dissent and criticism. Like this:
ReplyDelete"fuck, they’re barely being trained at all. here’s what Gil Kerlikowske — Obama’s head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection — had to say about yesterday’s incident.
“You don’t stand in front of a vehicle. You don’t place yourself in danger,” he said. “The Supreme Court just recently ruled on this. And this is called something like ‘self-imposed jeopardy.’ So you’re supposed to get out of the way. You’re not supposed to try the door handle.”
the shitwits who are becoming ICE thugs have no clue what they’re doing. they’re just being handed guns and told to go fuck shit up."
If the only claim Somerby can make about how to improve the situation, is to say that journalists need to speak up more, Somerby should just shut up and leave things to people who care, who read, and who actually have ideas about how to oppose Trump. Just saying it is time for some unspecified person (Noem?, Trump?) to go, is not enough given these circumstances.
Anonymouse 2:21pm, good job in helping us recognize the true villain in this tragedy. Bob…
DeleteThe is Somerby's blog. Of course he is responsible for what he says in it.
DeleteAnonymouse 2:29pm, your problem isn’t what Bob said, it’s what you think Bob should have said in “having ideas about how to oppose Trump”. We get your priorities in this matter.
DeleteWhen Somerby doesn't say things that are obvious, while claiming to be liberal, it is fair to ask why he doesn't. Somerby is an asshole, just like you are. That is the obvious explanation.
DeleteRashomon has nothing to do with this shooting. There are three different perspectives represented by the on-scene video, each supporting the FACT that this woman was shot while trying to comply and should not be dead. The responses by Republicans are stark evidence that they are pure and simple liars and wannabe dictators with no respect for law or American rights.
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html
DeleteAnonymouse 3:04pm, I’m afraid not. No one, not even Bob, has to mouth your sentiments as to what *absolutely* went down in this matter, prior to any investigation. You’ve tried that with Michael Brown and Treyvon Williams and both juries and an investigation by Eric Holder showed you to be wrong.
DeleteMartin, not Williams.
DeleteZero integrity.
DeleteFive Republicans showed political courage by voting with Democrats to advance a War Powers Resolution in the Senate, limiting Trump's ability to wage war against Venezuela.
ReplyDeleteI would like Fascist David and Bigot Cecelia to answer this: Should FIFA take back Trump's peace prize if we are bombing Mexico while co-hosting the World Cup with them and Canada. (Be nice if we were bombing Canada too, amIright?)
Delete@3:37 - Trump is doing such a good job that @3:37 has to make up imaginary scenarios to make him look bad.
DeleteThe five Republicans:
DeleteSenator State
Rand Paul Kentucky
Lisa Murkowski Alaska
Susan Collins Maine
Josh Hawley Missouri
Todd Young Indiana
Trump attacked these five saying they "should never be elected to office again."
Paul's branding is anti war so he has to maintain that regardless of his personal stance, Collins and Murkowski have to deal with a relatively moderate electorate, Hawley is angling for a run for president, Young...it is unclear if it was a principled stand or just expediency.
Two Dems voted against it:
Senator State
Joe Manchin West Virginia
Jon Tester Montana
Notably these two are from deep red states and both are retiring - the rest of Dems say "good riddance".
After Venezuela how is this not a concern? I thought you were proud of how this Fascist Dear Leader President follows thru with his threats. Has he not repeatedly said he wants to bomb Mexican cartels? Go eat a bag of dicks Dickhead. Did you watch the NYT video review of the murder? What the fuck is wrong with you. You have no moral compass. Did your mom hate you? Are you and Stephen Miller in the Conservative California Self Hating Jew Club?
Delete3:37 John Tester is long gone. Another asshole MAGA billionaire replaced him. He wants to help the little people of course. You fascist prick.
DeleteSorry 3:37, thought you were fascist Dickhead.
DeleteHa, no my bad, I had a brain fart - there were no Dem Senators that voted against the Resolution and Manchin and Tester are long gone.
DeleteIllinois Representative Robyn Kelly has introduced articles of impeachment against Noem in Congress:
ReplyDelete"“I refuse to stay silent while Secretary Noem breaks the rule of law and terrorizes our communities. I am introducing Articles of Impeachment against her for violating the public trust, obstructing Congress, and self-dealing. Read my full statement.”
Good for her. This is the kind of courage ALL of our elected officials should show.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteInsofar as mental illness, it is more interesting to focus for a brief while on the cultists defending the indefensible. What sort of mental defect or impairment would cause one to do that? Do they really think that ICE are there defending them and putting their lives on the line? How irrationally scared and otherwise addled do you have to be? What caused this mass hysteria?
ReplyDeleteHow's it possible to be so self-unaware and to cede one's own capacity to evaluate things based on plain, observable facts? The mass hysteria of the Trump cult is what's really fascinating here -- fascinating in a disturbing sort of way.
IIya, we have these same issues here with regular traffic stops that resulted in the arrest or the death of people of color. You know…where other people have had the temerity not to agree with TDH liberals. We’ve had them before Trump, during Trump, and after Trump. Spare us your self-serving drama.
DeleteThere have also been protests following such other incidents. Why should anyone ever be shot during a traffic stop, barring circumstances such as escaped criminals with weapons in the driver's seat?
DeleteThere is drama in this situation because this woman, the mother of a 6-year old child, did nothing whatsoever to get shot. She was attempting to comply with conflicting instructions. Her shooting is entirely unjustified and yet it is being defended by Noem and the President, who have both lied about what happened (there is video from 3 angles).
Your attempt to normalize what should scandalize is typical of you, with your lack of empathy and limited understanding of everything. I hope you are a bot because it would be so sad if you were a person and responded this way to a tragedy.
Her shooting is entirely unjustified and yet it is being defended by Noem and the President
Deleteit's worse than that: her shooting is a demonstration of wanton brutality by a paramilitary force, which, by all indications, is not subject to any laws or restraint.
Your attempt to normalize what should scandalize is typical of you, with your lack of empathy and limited understanding of everything. I hope you are a bot because it would be so sad if you were a person and responded this way to a tragedy.
DeleteThis is what I've commented on, time and time again: these people represent, an intellectual, moral, and emotional dead zone. They have lost their capacity to: (a) intellectually evaluate what's going on. (b) be morally outraged by the morally indefensible (c) show a modicum of empathy for their fellow humans.
Ilya, you are certainly correct in your post. Nothing new here. You and anonymices absolutely demand that the only correct conclusion we can have in these matters is yours. There’s no allowance for “We shall see”, “I’m not sure”, “Didn’t look like that to me”. Same shit, different day, eh… bitch…
Deletefuck off cecelia
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html
There’s no allowance for “We shall see”, “I’m not sure”, “Didn’t look like that to me”. Same shit, different day, eh… bitch…
DeleteMaybe that is because we already heard King Orange Chickenshit and Kristi "cowboy hat" Noem LIE their fucking asses off about the incident. There was no "we shall see" in any of their pile of bullshit spewed out to the American people.
The shooter was driven away expeditiously by hie fellow nazis.
He was wearing a fucking mask.
Though Cec and DiC have already been asked multiple times today to explain why the President and the Sec of DHS blatantly lied to the American people yesterday, they both have scrupulously avoided the question, ran away and ducked, because they both are not honest good faith people.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:40pm, what am I intentionally ignoring?
DeleteIt’s what they do. Each and every time.
DeleteBTW, Anonymouse 3:40pm, David has said that he thinks the shooting was unnecessary. Is that so much of a disappointment to you that you must pretend otherwise?
DeleteNot 3:40 but if I may speak for them, bald faced lies about state sanctioned murder you lying piece of shit. https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html
DeleteDavid's "but"s are the problem, you duplicitous shit.
DeleteThere is no gray area in this incident.
DeleteTrump: "It is hard to believe he is alive, but is now recovering in the hospital."
DeleteThat was the fucking President of the US lying his fucking ass off, Cec.
Why the fuck do you think King Chickenshit said that?
Greenlight shooting up the place. They want mass unrest. They think chaos = no midterms.
DeleteYou know why we are a fascist nation now (oligarchy)? A real press would scream bullshit. A non fascist Government would say we still have a lot to review, but initial findings were no ICE agents were harmed in this incident, although the officer who lost his mind and fired three rounds like a sick bitch strained his trigger finger.
Delete“No buts and No grey areas.”
DeleteLadies and gents — The Anonymouse Family Crest.
To help Ilya understand why people like Cecelia and David are the way they are:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/M3J9s3p18Ok?si=MhmwkGfY-Jb84sFZ
You can also trust your eyes, Cecelia, if not your moral compass. The asshole casually shoots in the car and then saunters over to admire his handiwork. He's not hurt, he's not flustered. He's relaxed and satisfied. Now, do tell me about nuances of law enforcement and their training.
DeleteThanks, anon@4:16. It's an interesting bit of polemic. I will have to analyze it a bit more.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:59pm, AI says the officer was treated at the hospital. It doesn’t say what sort of treatment.
Delete. However, it is significant that this officer had 30 stitches via being previously dragged by a vehicle. He needs a PTSD evaluation.
Ilya, you are certainly correct in your post.
DeleteYes. You should just stop here .
Ilya, why are you continuing to chastise me for not absolutely swearing to your take on this matter? You’re a “No buts” butt.
DeleteSo you agree Cecelia that the officer was brain damaged and should have been on desk duty, nowhere near the firearm he shot for absolutely no reason. You still refuse to talk about the NYT vidwo review. Come on now. Be honest for once in your life. There is no grey area. It's a fucking murder.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:34pm, why would I agree with that? As far as I know there’s been no evaluation for that, but there should be. Don’t ask me to make assumptions based upon nothing but your wrath or assumptions that this guy was “brain damaged” when he might not have that even that excuse.
DeleteYou said the poor fellow was brain damaged and couldn't control himself from the trauma of getting paid to fuck with people like a common slaver. What is your opinion of the NYT video review of the incident? You have zero integrity.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:46pm, please quote me saying that the ICE agent is brain damaged and couldn’t control himself.
DeleteZero integrity.
DeleteAnonymouse 5:19pm, I’m not sure if you lack integrity or if you’re merely stupid. Probably both.
DeleteYou lie. Zero Integrity.
DeleteIlya, the basis for the video is science, the video cites various studies, it is not controversial in any way.
DeleteRashomon has nothing whatsoever to do with this situation.
ReplyDeleteIt is Somerby's common ploy of misappropriating art to muddy the waters.
DeleteReally? You can read the comments here, debating all the different ways that this shooting incident can be dissected, and not comprehend why Somerby chose Rashomon as an analogy?
DeleteSomerby obviously wants to muddy the waters; vastly different from Rashomon, this case has witnesses and video, so we know one side is just pushing falsehoods. This is not a case of "every story has two sides", yet Somerby trots out Rashomon, I mean he is barely hiding his agenda, to the extent that you can not even credibly claim some kind of excessively literal defense.
Delete""In 2022, we (DOJ) updated the federal use of force policy for the 1st time in 20 years. It included a duty to render medical aid and specifics on how firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle in most circumstances. Every law enforcement agency, including ICE, adopted it. This effort was led by former Associate AG @vanitaguptaCR and the memo has not been rescinded. This is critical in the wake of the Minneapolis ICE shooting."
ReplyDeleteThe memo issued by the U.S. Attorney General's office detailed how heads of multiple agencies, including the ATF, DEA, FBI and USMS were consulted and approved of the updated use-of-force policy. It also cites legal precedent with the cases Graham v. Connor and Tennessee v. Garner and outlined how law enforcement agencies would update their training to follow the policy." [Rawstory]
JD Vance is claiming that ICE officers have the same immunity as President Trump.
ReplyDeleteWhen Trump is removed from office, we need to be sure that JD Vance goes with him. He is showing his unfit for office in his response to this tragedy. He is an awful person and my heart goes out to his wife and family.
@3:36 - But is Vance right about the law? Does Jonathan Ross have absolute immunity?
DeleteWhat do you think, David?
DeleteIANAL My opinion is pretty worthless, but I sure doubt that federal law enforcement personnel have absolute immunity for any deaths they cause. However, in this case, the officer had to make a split second decision. Could he be sure that no one else was in front of the SUV? Given those circumstances I think the officer might not be convicted. Luckily for him the victim wasn't black.
DeleteLucky for you I don't know where you live because I punch crippled old fascists in their fucking faces. For one day, stop the lies. You fuckers won't ever be truthful about what your own eyes see. Dear Leader says so.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:36pm, who would be surprised that you’ve punched people for not saying what you wish to hear. Who would be surprised if you have tried to run over an ICE agent.
Delete"Could he be sure that no one else was in front of the SUV?"
DeleteWell, yes. Because he was staring right at it as he drew his gun and shot at it.
Zero integrity.
DeleteRoss put himself in front of the vehicle and then instead of moving back to his original position (which is moot since even with him moving right in front the vehicle did not touch him), Ross chose instead to kill the driver.
DeleteFFS Ross was not in front of the vehicle.He was in front on the side and shoot her thru the windshield, and as she rolled past him he shot her two more times thru the open passenger window. Vehicle never touched him - see the NYT video referenced.
DeleteICE goons need to select better targets ifn's they want to get away with the BIG LIE. A "Good" name, comly, white, a mother of 3, ex husband in the military, devout Christian who has been on Missions. You evil sick fascists gobbling up the big lie can all fuck yourselves.
ReplyDelete“Ifn’s”not a good touch. It shows that you’re really some homely person with five degrees and no job other than posing as some bad ass on a blogboard.
DeleteZero integrity.
DeleteAnonymouse 5:17pm, it’s nice that you’re able to read your tattoo.
DeleteZero integrity.
DeleteRepublicans view lacking integrity as a feature, not a bug.
DeleteTDH: Only a badly disordered person could fail to imagine an innocent reason for that woman's (horrified) screaming. Beyond that, and obviously:
ReplyDeleteGood did not "run over" any ICE officer in the course of yesterday's events. In fact, no one got "run over" by anyone's car in the course of this fatal shooting.
That said, crazily inaccurate, poisonous claims are nothing new to this president.
Well said by Bob. Keep that last sentence in mind. The president lies. The poisonous claims are design to set the narrative for the magot base who are not living in the reality based world. Most of what Trump says is for that purpose. The lies become permanent part of the magot narrative from Jan 6 to this incident.
Bob says no one could reasonably imagine that the police were stuck in snow and trying to push their vehicle out of the snow, although one could possibly imagine that the victim had attempted to run the officers over and ram them with her vehicle.
DeleteSorry, this is not "well said", this is Bob putting his thumb on the scale; no one could imagine that the victim was trying to run over the officers anymore than they could imagine the officers stuck in snow - there is video that demonstrates both are false, and not one moreso than the other.
I haven't seen any of the videos. So I'm taking Bob's word for this. He could be wrong on this. But the evidence that Trump has made "crazily inaccurate, poisonous claims" remains true.
DeleteI have seen all the videos and heard the witnesses, there is no way to imagine that the driver attempted to run over and ram the officers, that is no more imaginable than the officers being stuck in snow. Bob is over his skis here.
DeleteYes, Trump clearly lied. He watched the video, which is not ambiguous, and lied about what happened.
Bob can not bring himself to face that, and the reason is not hard to discern.