Tribalism watch: Taking the Manteuffel Challenge!

SATURDAY, MARCH 19, 2016

Sanders gets it right:
Rachel Manteuffel, roughly 31, "works in the Washington Post's editorial department."

A few years back, she noticed that Dr. King was in effect being misquoted at D.C.'s new King Memorial. Last Saturday, she wrote a peculiar column in the Post, explaining why she's registered to vote as a Republican in D.C., where she lives.

We were struck by the waste of time and energy involved in Manteuffel's decision to register that way and in her attendant conduct. We thought it odd that the Washington Post would publish such a peculiar column, especially since it was written by someone from the paper's editorial staff.

Out in suburban Reston, Virginia, a different reader of the Post had a different reaction to Manteuffel's column.

His letter appears in today's editions.
In our view, the letter invites us to take the Manteuffel challenge:
LETTER TO THE WASHINGTON POST (3/19/16): Regarding Rachel Manteuffel’s March 12 op-ed, “I have the voting power of 40 Texas Republicans”:

The Post’s guidelines for online comments call for the exclusion of degrading, hateful and derogatory language. Did no one think that referring to a candidate for president as “a man who skitters cockroach-like” was perhaps over the line? Fully half of Manteuffel’s submission was “hateful” by The Post’s standards. As for the other half, she delighted in telling us how clever and bold she is, something that probably goes over better as cocktail chatter with friends than in the pages of a great newspaper.

If Manteuffel feels such distain for the Republican Party, she should leave. No one would miss her.
Should Manteuffel have compared Candidate Rubio, for whom she strategeristically voted, to a cockroach?

Go ahead—take the Manteuffel challenge! The column in question is here.

The Reston writer took offense at Manteuffel's language. For what it's worth, comparisons to rodents, insects and machines have long constituted a basic element of dehumanization and otherization, dating at least to the famous, evil killing regime of Europe's you-know-whos.

All in all, it probably isn't the greatest way to play.

(In October 1999, Candidates Gore and Bradly staged their first Democratic debate. At Slate, Jacob Weisberg posted a peculiar instant review in which he said that Candidate Gore "arrived on stage like some sort of feral animal who had been locked in a small cage and fed on nothing but focus groups for several days. Upon release, he began to scamper furiously in every direction at once." This description was hard to square with the videotape. It was also classic otherization; other peculiar claims followed. For that reason, Weisberg's piece was widely plagiarized by major "journalists" over the course of the next few days. This signaled that an ugly group process was already well underway.)

Should journalists compare candidates to roaches and rodents? That letter writer saw Manteuffel's column in a particular way.

He saw it as an example of the ugliness of our liberal tribe. He saw it as an example of the way Our Liberal Team breaks our own rules.

You can judge those claims for yourself. In the broader sense, we think it's worth considering the way Our Team may sometimes appear to The Others.

Our view? Despite their obvious subhuman status, The Others are sometimes right in what they see.

That letter writer may have a point about Manteuffel's language. Beyond that, his letter reminded us of something Candidate Sanders recently said.

On Thursday night, Sanders appeared on the Maddow Show. In response to a question, he showed that he's willing to draw a basic distinction, one which is blindingly obvious:
MADDOW (3/17/16): Senator, I know your time is limited. I just have one last question for you and it's because you raised the issue of Donald Trump.

Obviously, Mr. Trump has had an issue with violence at his events. He has blamed you. He recently blamed your supporters for showing up to his events and mounting protests that are disruptive. What advice—

Obviously, I don't blame you. But what advice would you have for your supporters, or for protesters who show up for any reason to Trump events, whether they're there to protest on your behalf or someone else's?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, Rachel, you may know, at least in my view, Donald Trump is a pathological liar. There's very little that he says that one can at face value believe to be correct.

We have never, not once, urged any supporter of ours to disrupt a meeting. I think that's kind of counterproductive.

Having a respectful demonstration, a protest, is I think absolutely right. You have a guy here in Trump who has insulted Muslims, insulted Mexicans, insulted women, insulted the African-American community, insulted veterans, you know, and I think it is totally right for people to protest.

Disrupting rallies is not my style. I would urge people not to do that.
Sanders was willing to draw a distinction. He said it's appropriate to protest at a campaign event. He said it isn't OK to disrupt such an event.

Can we talk? That distinction is blindingly obvious. Here's something else that's blindingly obvious:

In 2007 or 2008, if some speech by Candidate Obama had been interrupted "at least a dozen times;" if this sort of thing had happened routinely; we the liberals would have complained very loudly.

We would have started dropping our bombs. Quite correctly, we would have said it isn't OK to interrupt such events.

Leading up to Candidate Trump's cancelled event in Chicago last week, our own tribe's admirable and thoroughly brilliant youngsters kept interrupting his events. Even after the Chicago event, one of our admirable freedom fighters rushed the stage at his next event, causing security agents to scramble and getting himself arrested in the process.

That said, how odd! During and after the Chicago event, our spokespeople crowded onto cable TV to discuss what had happened. And how strange! Starting with Maddow herself, we seemed to have a very hard time drawing that very basic distinction--the distinction between protest and disruption.

Starting with Maddow herself, tribal believers worked quite hard to fudge that basic distinction. Trust us on what comes next:

Out in Reston, that reader of the Washington Post could see that we were doing that. Quite correctly, he thought we were being dishonest.

Subsequently, he was told by conservative voices that we were being dishonest. And uh-oh! In this instance, what he was told by Rush and Sean was basically right.

Bernie Sanders had no trouble drawing a basic distinction. Last week, our tribal sachems didn't seem able to do it.

This leads us to a pair of conclusions:

Fairly often, we the liberals are less than obsessively honest. On many occasions, The Others, despite their resemblance to roaches, are very much able to see this.

52 comments:

  1. HRC busted, again. 2014 video shows HRC acknowledging risk of China and Russia hacking her Blackberry but failed to mention she used it anyway in these countries.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDQ0UMK4Fc

    "Hillary Clinton sent at least three dozen emails during seven different trips to China, Vietnam and Russia as secretary of state, a Daily Caller investigation reveals.

    Communicating through a personal email account, which Clinton had synced up to a private email server and a non-government-issued BlackBerry, put the Democratic presidential candidate’s communications at risk, especially in nations with robust spy agencies and government-owned telecoms companies like China and Russia, a cyber security specialist tells TheDC."

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/16/investigation-hillary-sent-dozens-of-emails-on-her-blackberry-from-russia-and-china-raising-risk-profile/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Vote for Bernie, cicero.

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    2. cicero

      off topic and mis-informed

      http://www.wired.com/2016/03/security-news-week-nsa-denied-hillary-secure-blackberry/?mbid=social_gplus

      as usual

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    3. Apparently, Comrade cicero's suspension has ended:

      "Many troll accounts emanate from Russia's most famous "troll factory," the Internet Research center, an unassuming building on St. Petersburg's Savushkina Street, which runs on a 24-hour cycle. In recent weeks, former employees have come forward to talk about life inside the factory, where hundreds of people work grinding, 12-hour shifts in exchange for 40,000 rubles ($700) a month or more."

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    4. @7:06

      HRC was denied a secure Blackberry and in her typical fashion used her unsecured Blackberry. Of course she claimed back in March 11, 2015 at the U.N. press conference she only used one device for work and business, an iPhone, for the convenience.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyKdoDw2CRc

      She forgot there was video of her back on February 2015 bragging about using an iPhone, Blackberry, mini iPad and an iPad at the same time while at Foggy Bottom.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z6voCQif5M

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  2. More disruption of a Trump appearance.

    Trump protesters block streets in Fountain Hills

    http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/31516829/trump-protesters-block-streets-in-fountain-hills

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    Replies
    1. Quick, somebody get David in Cal a fainting couch.

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  3. Thanks DinC,
    Someone asked me if I was going to Fountain Hills today.
    I answered that I would probably watch a Mel Brooks flick for laughs instead .
    The Arizona Republic isn't covering it as well as the Tucson paper.

    Ya know, we serious people have often criticized political campaigns as little more than dick-measuring contests.
    Now, they literally are.
    Does this mean the appropriately named
    Anthony Weiner will be recognized as the true pioneer he is?

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    Replies
    1. "The Arizona Republic isn't covering it as well as the Tucson paper" is because the latter is an actual newspaper.

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    2. Sadly, I have to agree.
      The Republic gave up reporting national and world news by an insert of USA Today.
      And you know what? The USA Today insert is a better read than the Arizona Republic(an).

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  4. "Fairly often, we the liberals are less than obsessively honest."

    It's "political correctness" run amok. You can't honestly say, "There is no god, and there never was," in public anymore without the right-wing PC Police calling the truth "beyond the pale".

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  5. As a liberal I couldn't support a party that has dumbed down to such an extreme that it no longer recognizes the difference between protesting and denying First Amendment rights.

    We've all suspected for a long time that the progressive left would be more than comfortable in a Stalinist regime that punishes wrong thoughts. Now for several months we'll get daily evidence it is exactly what they dream of.

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  6. Bob, since you are so interested in clear and obvious distinctions today, do you see any distinction between the way Obama campaigned in 2008, and the way Trump campaigns today?

    To put it more simply, did Obama base his entire campaign on insulting wide swaths of American population to the point where lots of people would even want to show up to disrupt his rallies?

    So why excuse Trump as if he is blameless in the anger he has stoked -- on both sides. Anger, you see, is his currency. And it's just about all he's got.

    Finally, Bob, since you love clear distinctions, once again I ask you to read "Letter from Birmingham Jail" -- probably for the first time.

    It is Dr. King's answer to well-meaning clergymen who thought he was "disrupting" things just a wee bit too much, and that he would have to tone it down and dial it back if his movement were to succeed.

    You remember, Dr. King, don't you? He's one of those guys you say we should all emulate these days.

    Bet you'll be surprised to know that the Dr. King you think existed is quite different from the Dr. King who actually lived.

    And no, he wasn't afraid to "disrupt" and he disrupted lots of things.

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  7. Actually Bob, the only organized obstruction groups I know of going after Trump now are Republicans who fear they will be creamed in November. You should factor that in before you assume it's "us".

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    Replies
    1. No one believes that. No one.

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  8. Ha! I finally understood Bob’s “change” in direction – he’s actually gonna criticize the Right!

    “…explaining why she's registered to vote as a Republican in D.C., where she lives.

    “We were struck by the waste of time and energy involved in Manteuffel's decision to register that way and in her attendant conduct.”

    Yes… It’s a shame that it’s got to this point, but anyone who puts an R– in front of their name is literally no longer worthy of consideration.

    To Bob’s credit, he considers nonetheless.

    And sorry if I seem slow. It’s not an illusion. I could easily be wrong about the change. Frankly, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

    But the GOP is so far out... And not in a good way.

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  9. Today's two parter breaks down this way.

    Bob is upset because a time waster, filler piece in the WA Post is bad. Bad because they let their own writer break the rules on name calling, and bad because She pats herself on the back for being so clever over something that isn't even half clever. If Bob were completely honest, he would probably suggest that The Post is doting on one of it's young black writers for no good reason in a way phony liberals sometimes do. He would probably be right. Oh yeah, and it of course provokes an old story about the abuse of Al Gore.

    Then Bob is upset because Rachel Maddow asks Bernie Sanders about the violence at Trump rallies Trump has suggested comes from Bernie supporters. Bernie, who has some background in civil disobedience, explains the difference between a disruption and a demonstration. Bernie gives an answer that Bob finds very obvious. Well, yes, as I tried to explain to a not very bright poster here yesterday. But what does Bob want Bernie to do, chastise liberals who supposedly are too dumb to make this distinction, which Bob would probably think includes our whole "tribe?"

    There is nothing wrong or strange about Rachel Maddow asking this question. There is nothing wrong or strange about her reaction to Bernie Sanders's reply.

    Bob has a problem about Rachel Maddow he should probably get professional help in dealing with.

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    1. Maddow is watched by many progressives and held up as one of the "smartest" people on cable news. Shouldn't she be criticized when she does shoddy work? If not, why not?

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    2. "Maddow is watched by many progressives and held up as one of the "smartest" people on cable news.
      Please name names.

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    3. People share her stuff on my Facebook feed all the time. She has the prime time slot on the "progressive" cable news channel, and hundreds of thousands of viewers every night, with more watch her show's stream her stuff on the web. When she covers a topic, it gets progressive's attention, like with the lead problem in Flint, MI's water system. She is praised nonstop in progressive news outlets (here is an old article, but a typical one http://www.motherjones.com/media/2009/01/rachel-maddows-star-power ).

      This critique of her comes close to what Somerby says.

      http://observer.com/2015/09/rachel-maddow-msnbcs-progressive-star-too-often-rambles-in-word-circles/

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    4. I watch that space and think she is smart. You think Megyn Kelly is smarter? Jerk.

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    5. I think Megyn Kelly is not very smart and only on TV because of one reason: how she looks. Maddow's on TV because her "brand" says that she is "smart," even if that is not the truth most of the time.

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    6. Not even clever, and certainly not honest, hardindr.

      Saying that Somerby has an obsession with Maddow that borders on, if not already into, the pathological is NOT the same thing as saying that Maddow is above criticism.

      Delete
    7. ". . . even if that is not the truth most of the time."

      So how often do you watch Maddow to judge what she does "most of the time"?

      Every night while you furiously take notes? Or do you just take Somerby's word for it?

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    8. I think hardindr comments on blogs because he seems dumb, diliked, and of dubious morals like most self-loathing liberal fans of Bob Somerby. Our guess? He only comments on blogs because of how he looks. But nobody knows for sure.

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    9. I don't watch Maddow live because I have to work when she is on. Sometimes she does good work, but her show is very hard to watch. She is very twee, manic, and self-absorbed. She rambles a lot and makes goofy facial expressions. Her trivia show is stupid. When Bob post something about her, I try and watch the video to see if he is right about his criticism of her. Usually he is.

      Maddow thinks she knows more about booze than she really does, i.e. this http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/cocktail-moment-improved-whiskey-cockta . If you want to make a real Old Fashioned, this is how you do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEr7ym4-r5I . You use rye for Manhattans, not Old-Fashioneds.

      Being willing to engage in self-criticism isn't self-loathing, it's good practice. Bob does what most bloggers/reporters can't seem bothered to do: watch video and read transcripts of what someone has said, and then try to accurately assess/critique what someone has said. His recent example of Josh Marshall misrepresenting what Sen. Grassley said about Obama's Supreme Court nominee is just another example of someone who is too lazy to do basic research. Progressives should expect better from their media representatives.

      I comment on blogs because I think I have something to add to the conversation. I don't look particularly attractive (if you google my handle, you can probably find a picture of me and decide for yourself). Best retort to you is "I'm rubber, your glue.." I'm sure you know the rest... ;-)

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    10. @hardindr

      You look like a cross between Maddow and Sherman, Mr. Peabody's sidekick. Maybe you should try out for a guest appearance on "Bob's Burgers."

      Delete
    11. I look more like this guy...

      http://www.etonline.com/news/2015/10/24184764/640_moranis-ghostbusters.jpg

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    12. Maddow is smarter than Brit Hume but Brit Hume emits less nervous energy and self loathing. And he looks better in a bikini. I watch them both.

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    13. Hardindr, it is very true that you don't watch Maddow. It is also very true that you only regurgitate what Somerby tells you about her, because you do so here.

      And she didn't know how to mix a Manhattan? Pass the smelling salts. Oh, the humanity!

      One of the reasons I watch Maddow is that she and her staff pay attention to what's going on all over the country, and reads newspapers beyond the Beltway/NY corridor. There are many examples over the years where she has found an important local/regional story and gave it its first national attention, and having the reporters who broke those stories as guests.

      Bob? He reads two newspapers. And watches Maddow. Then runs to his blog, where you think he's got the chops to criticize anyone.

      Self-criticism is good. Bob should try it some time. He should begin by asking himself why the targets of his rage -- and it is rage -- are overwhelmingly female and younger, better educated, and far more successful than he.

      Then maybe we could get some serious criticism out of the erstwhile stand-up comic rather than his vile insults, name-calling and obsessions.

      You would think his double faceplant on Govs. Christie and McDonnell would have taught him that maybe Maddow isn't 100 percent wrong all the time, but nope. That didn't work either.

      One must first have a sense of shame and an ego smaller than the state of Montana to do any serious self-reflection. Instead, Bob continued to insist he was right, the rest of the world was wrong, until he finally shut up and hoped the whole thing would simply go away.

      Delete
    14. Bob's beat has always been cable news and the MSM. You can go back to into his archives stretching back almost 20 years and that is what you will mostly find. I suspect he doesn't cover rightwing cable news much any more because others have filled in that area, i.e. MMfA. It's also pretty clear from his writings that he still watches most cable TV news, not just MSNBC, a masochistic task if there ever was one. All on his own free time and with no expectation of compensation. I think he focuses on the "progressive" side of cable news because it is so awful and has become so close to the garbage dolled out daily at Fox News.

      If you don't want to believe that I force myself to watch Maddow's program, great! But I do, and most of the time Bob's criticism is accurate.

      Maddow doesn't know how to mix a proper Old Fashioned, which was a snarky aside I made. The bigger problems is why she is devoting any precious time on her prime-time cable TV program to cocktails, when there are so many important stories to tell to her audience. The same can be said for her dumb trivia program. How many hours does she waste a year on this crap? How much better could progressive interests be served if she devoted that time to real journalism? Why did these stupid segments begin to appear on her show?

      Maddow maybe younger, better "educated," and successful that Bob, but progressives get precious little for her $7.5 M/year salary. If you want to call Bob a sexist, go ahead! We see his anger as justified, directed at an over-paid clown.

      Christie still hasn't been indicted and there still isn't any evidence he had anything to do with "bridge gate." McDonnell has appealed his conviction to the US Supreme court, and they have agreed to hear the case. We don't remember Bob saying either was innocent, rather that Maddow and other progressives just took prosecutors' charges as gospel truth, rather than adopting a more skeptical stance towards their assertions.

      Can you defend this type of work and conduct by Maddow? If so, how? At best, it looks like someone who doesn't take there job very seriously; at worst, it looks like someone who has possible mental health issue. And she acts like this all the time...

      http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/press-perpetuates-mcdonnell-legal-defense-313762371785

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    15. Familty Members Concerned for Greg's Mental HealthMarch 21, 2016 at 6:26 PM

      There was nothing negative about Maddow here, Greg.

      Sanders appeared on her show. Sanders said something quite sensible. That was it.

      Still, you go off. We're worried about you. You really should seek help for your Somerby Derangement Syndrome.

      It isn't getting better on its own. You're going to crack.

      Delete
  10. "Even after the Chicago event, one of our admirable freedom fighters rushed the stage at his next event . . ."

    Thank you, Rush Somerby. Take the worst behavior by one individual and call it typical of all who protest at Trump rallies.

    Now how many times have you taken upon yourself to lecture "liberals" about not throwing the "R-bomb" around when Tea Partiers wave Confederate flags and hoist the vilest, most racist signs imaginable at their rallies? Why, they are just individuals. Not typical of the entire Tea Party movement.

    That's also out of the right-wing noise machine playbook as well. In fact, this blog has now become indistinguishable from hundreds of right-wing vanity blogs out there.

    Which is why thinking people have left a long time ago, and your most avid fans are Cicero and David in Cal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @8:48

      Not to mention the liberal plants at Tea Party rallies which is right out of the left-wing noise machine playbook as composed by George Soros, Media Matters, Think Progress, dailykos, MoveOn....

      http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2010/07/16/far-left-think-progress-fabricates-examples-tea-party-racism-bogus-v

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    2. Once again, the "party of personal responsibility" refusing to take personal responsibility.

      Much easier to invent "others" to blame it on.

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    3. Thinking people have left the progressive left behind, recognizing it as an unserious movement of children with serious psychological issues.

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    4. "Take the worst behavior by one individual and call it typical of all who protest"

      Of course, that didn't happen -- at all -- but whatever right?

      Delete
  11. On behalf of surviving subhuman droogs everywhere I cannot tell you how proud we are as your species precursor not to be characterized as, or compared to, other life forms by Bob Somerby. We think he may once of twice have questioned our planet of origin, but he has never suggested we are insect or rodent, placing him many steps ahead of your garden variety Nazi or liberal tribalist.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Bob Somerby, roughly a septaugenarian, works as a blogger on his own no-wage web site, skittering across topics like a squeegee wielding panhandler looking for donations.

    Can we talk? Throughout his nearly two decades of self described "futile" blogging it is blindingly obvious this fragile elder thinks it is a sign of intelligence to denigrate those younger than he is.

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  13. Again, in this instance, what did Maddow do that was wrong?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Again, what is Bob doing right?

      "Amy Goodman Shames CNN: Media 'Manufactures Consent' By Giving Trump 23 Times More Coverage"

      http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/amy-goodman-shames-cnn-media-manufactures

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    2. Maddow didn't have the perspicacity or guts to do a segment about the political implications of these disruptions. Or point out how they help Trump. I'm not saying you are wrong Greg just that that would have been nice.

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    3. So how does covering Trump help Trump? There's no evidence that he has any appeal beyond the plurality of the slice of the electorate who turn out to vote in Republican primaries -- people who are always attracted by neo-populists in their search for simple answers in an increasingly changing and complex world.

      There is abundant evidence that an increasing majority of Americans view Trump very negatively, lacking the character, temperament and experience to be President of the United States.

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    4. Asking Bernie Sanders about the accusations Trump was making about him is an acceptable way to cover Trump. It would be sort of strange to ignore them as he is the likely nominee.

      Delete
  14. My life became devastated when my husband sent me packing, after 8 years that we have been together. I was lost and helpless after trying so many ways to make my husband take me back. One day at work, i was absent minded not knowing that my boss was calling me, so he sat and asked me what its was all about i told him and he smiled and said that it was not a problem. I never understand what he meant by it wasn't a problem getting my husband back, he said he used a spell to get his wife back when she left him for another man and now they are together till date and at first i was shocked hearing such thing from my boss. He gave me an email address of the great spell caster who helped him get his wife back, i never believed this would work but i had no choice that to get in contact with the spell caster which i did, and he requested for my information and that of my husband to enable him cast the spell and i sent him the details, but after two days, my mom called me that my husband came pleading that he wants me back, i never believed it because it was just like a dream and i had to rush down to my mothers place and to my greatest surprise, my husband was kneeling before me pleading for forgiveness that he wants me and the kid back home, then i gave Happy a call regarding sudden change of my husband and he made it clear to me that my husband will love me till the end of the world, that he will never leave my sight. Now me and my husband is back together again and has started doing pleasant things he hasn't done before, he makes me happy and do what he is suppose to do as a man without nagging. Please if you need help of any kind, kindly contact Happy for help and you can reach him via email: happylovespell2@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  15. Greg does love his Maddow.

    "Starting with Maddow herself, we seemed to have a very hard time drawing that very basic distinction--the distinction between protest and disruption."

    NO! NONONONO!!!!

    Greg's not having it!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  17. My life became devastated when my husband sent me packing, after 8 years that we have been together. I was lost and helpless after trying so many ways to make my husband take me back. One day at work, i was absent minded not knowing that my boss was calling me, so he sat and asked me what its was all about i told him and he smiled and said that it was not a problem. I never understand what he meant by it wasn't a problem getting my husband back, he said he used a spell to get his wife back when she left him for another man and now they are together till date and at first i was shocked hearing such thing from my boss. He gave me an email address of the great spell caster who helped him get his wife back, i never believed this would work but i had no choice that to get in contact with the spell caster which i did, and he requested for my information and that of my husband to enable him cast the spell and i sent him the details, but after two days, my mom called me that my husband came pleading that he wants me back, i never believed it because it was just like a dream and i had to rush down to my mothers place and to my greatest surprise, my husband was kneeling before me pleading for forgiveness that he wants me and the kid back home, then i gave Happy a call regarding sudden change of my husband and he made it clear to me that my husband will love me till the end of the world, that he will never leave my sight. Now me and my husband is back together again and has started doing pleasant things he hasn't done before, he makes me happy and do what he is suppose to do as a man without nagging. Please if you need help of any kind, kindly contact Happy for help and you can reach him via email: happylovespell2@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
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