HEALTH MATTERS: Nicholas Kristof flayed and denounced!

THURSDAY, APRIL 6, 2017

Interlude—Dark as a dungeon:
It may be the most dangerous four-letter word in the English language.

The word in question is "Them." Also its relative: "They."

This morning, in the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof explores the concept of ThemThink. More precisely, he explores the type of ThemThink which is quite prevalent within our self-impressed liberal tribe.

We liberals have failed to perform for decades now—but in our minds, the problem can only be Them. As he starts, Kristof describes reader reaction to a recent column, in which he said Those People, the 63 million, may not be all just alike.

Hard-copy headline included:
KRISTOF (4/6/17): How I Angered My Readers, Again

When I write about people struggling with addictions or homelessness, liberals exude sympathy while conservatives respond with snarling hostility to losers who make “bad choices.”

When I write about voters who supported President Trump, it’s the reverse: Now it’s liberals who respond with venom, hoping that Trump voters suffer for their bad choice.

“I absolutely despise these people,” one woman tweeted at me after I interviewed Trump voters. “Truly the worst of humanity. To hell with every one of them.”
The woman who tweeted that tweet is just one person, of course. She doesn't represent all liberals. Whatever you think of her furious tweet, that one tweet can't represent the full range of her own human qualities.

That said, that woman went straight to "them" when she discussed Trump voters. She also went straight to "these people," using "these" is a stand-in for "those."

Those People! They're "the worst of humanity"—the 63 million all-alikers who can be found Over There!

That one tweet was just one tweet. It came from just one person.

But Kristof says he received a lot of such tweets after his recent column from Oklahoma, in which he spoke with Trump voters who are unhappy with some of Donald J. Trump's proposed budget cuts.

Our tribe has been dumb for decades now; more accurately stated, we've been spectacularly dumb. But as is true within all tribes, we only hate and despise the dumb when we see it Over There.

In some cases, "hate" may be the accurate word. Kristof quoted other reactions:
KRISTOF: “I’m just going to say it,” tweeted Bridgette. “I hate these people. They are stupid and selfish. Screw them. Lose your jobs, sit home and die.”

Another: “ALL Trump voters are racist and deplorable. They’ll never vote Democratic. We should never pander to the Trumpites. We’re not a party for racists.”

The torrent of venom was, to me, as misplaced as the support for Trump from struggling Oklahomans. I’m afraid that Trump’s craziness is proving infectious, making Democrats crazy with rage that actually impedes a progressive agenda.
Bridgette says she hates "These People," in part because she finds them stupid. She went straight to "They."

Another respondent went straight to "ALL." Bridgette wants "them" to die.

These three respondents are just three people. They can't, and they don't, speak for all the nation's liberals. In moments of spleen, we humans may not even speak with full fidelity for ourselves.

That said, Kristof says he got a lot of responses like these, and surely no one will doubt him. When we speak with liberal friends, we're often surprised by how quickly the discussion goes to "They," and from there to sweeping denunciations of Them, who seem to be 1) all alike and 2) deeply undeserving.

Kristof says we shouldn't do that! What follows is the most obvious fact on the face of the earth, except when we in our self-impressed tribe get our Big Dumb on:
KRISTOF: One problem with the Democratic anger is that it stereotypes a vast and contradictory group of 63 million people. Sure, there were racists and misogynists in their ranks, but that doesn’t mean that every Trump voter was a white supremacist. While it wasn’t apparent from reading the column, one of the Trump voters I quoted was black, and another was Latino. Of course, millions of Trump voters were members of minorities or had previously voted for Barack Obama.

“Some people think that the people who voted for Trump are racists and sexists and homophobes and just deplorable folks,” Senator Bernie Sanders, who has emerged as a surprising defender of Trump voters, said the other day. “I don’t agree.”
Now they've even got Bernie Sanders! How fiendish Those People can be!

Last month, Sanders joined Chris Hayes for a town hall meeting in McDowell County, West Virginia. The state overwhlemingly voted for Trump—but Sanders said the coal miners who cast some of those votes are "heroes:"
HAYES (3/13/17): So Senator, coal, I think, is on a long-term decline. What do you tell the folks here for whom, like Philip, that is the one job that pays a decent wage and gives benefits?

SANDERS: Let me be honest and say two things. I think—and disagree with me if you think I'm wrong on this, but coal in this area has been in decline I think, since the '70s and the '80s. It's not anything that's new.

And I think, and second of all—and I know not everybody, you know, will be happy with me saying this. But I happen to believe, unlike the President, that climate change is real and it is a threat to all.

But having said that, I don't hold this gentleman and the coal miners responsible for climate change. In fact, in fact, these guys are heroes. I remember, I grew up in a rent control apartment House in Brooklyn, New York and I will never forget the piles of coal. I don't know if it came from here or wherever it came. You kept my house warm. Thank you. So you're not—you are not my enemy.

[...]

SANDERS: I mean, you know, these guys are heroes. How many of them—and by the way, while we're talking about the issue, you may know, Phil, that right now there are tens of thousands of coal miners who were promised health care when they retired, whose families were promised pensions and got a Congress, including Senator McConnell from the coal state of Kentucky, which is holding up legislation to make sure these families have the health care and the pensions that they were promised. So if you think about all of the miners who suffered and died from black lung disease or all of the other injuries, I would say that as a nation, we owe these folks a great deal.
Many of West Virginia's coal miners voted for Donald J. Trump. Like Kristof, we'd be inclined to say that they made a bad judgment.

That said, we liberals have made ridiculous judgments for the past oodles of years. That includes many liberals who are better "educated," and more "sophisticated," than the people who decided to vote for Trump, at whom we love to kick down when they come up from the mines.

Is imperfect judgment only found Over There? For spectacular liberal cluelessness, just watch the first ten minutes of this C-Span tape with Rebecca Solnit, live and direct from Berkeley. We plan to discuss that tape next week. In that first ten minutes, you see standard pseudo-liberal condescension at its dumbest, least disguised, most raw.

Note especially Solnit's condescending account of her visit to that "bleak little suburb" north of Reno. Try to choke down her earlier account of "how you know you're in America." We liberals are often amazingly dumb. It isn't just found Over There.

For the record, there's nothing wrong with being dumb. That's good, since everyone is.

That said, there's no one quite as dumb as the modern liberal. Once again, Kristof tries to explain that we liberals have to persuade conservative or conservative-leaning or independent voters in order to make political gains.

He also explains how we sometimes lose votes. He makes his latest try:
KRISTOF: I asked the people I interviewed in Oklahoma why they were sticking with Trump. There are many reasons working-class conservatives vote against their economic interests—abortion and gun issues count heavily for some—but another is the mockery of Democrats who deride them as ignorant bumpkins. The vilification of these voters is a gift to Trump.

Nothing I’ve written since the election has engendered more anger from people who usually agree with me than my periodic assertions that Trump voters are human, too. But I grew up in Trump country, in rural Oregon, and many of my childhood friends supported Trump. They’re not the hateful caricatures that some liberals expect, any more than New York liberals are the effete paper cutouts that my old friends assume.
According to Kristof, our sweeping denunciations of Those People "is a gift to Trump." Many journalists who have ventured into Trump Country have come back with this report, but we just keep trashing Those People, all of Them, all 63 million at a time.

Tomorrow, we'll return to our current report on the nation's health care "discussion." That "discussion" is, and had been, spectacularly dumb.

That pseudo-discussion has been spectacularly dumb for a good many years. Unfortunately, we liberals have always been too dumb to notice this fact; to insist on something better; to notice how little enlightenment comes from our overpaid "liberal leaders."

No one's dumber than We have been, but we seem to love to kick down Over There. That coal miner who spoke to Sanders that night? He's the one who's really dumb. And "these people" are ALL alike!

We liberals are human, all too human. We're lazy and clueless and nobody likes us.

We're also convinced, and are willing to say, that the dumb ones are all Over There. Kristof keeps saying that we shouldn't do this.

Kristof keeps saying Those People are human. "Nothing...engender[s] more anger."

Tomorrow: The dumbness our tribe promulgates

Dark as a dungeon: Bernie Sanders never went down in the mines. We never went there either. We were too busy going to Harvard. We'll guess that few extension courses are being taught down in the mines.

Sanders doesn't suffer from black lung. He respects the people who do. He says they were keeping him warm when they were down in the mines.

"It's dark as a dungeon way down in the mines." For the Johnny Cash version, click here.

Here's the second verse, plus the refrain:
Well I pray when I’m dead and the ages shall roll
That my body will blacken and turn into coal
Then I’ll look from the door of my heavenly home
And pity the miner that’s digging my bones

Where it’s dark as a dungeon, damp as the dew
Danger is double and the pleasures are few
Where the rain never falls, the sun never shines
It’s dark as a dungeon way down in the mines.
He'll pity the miner that’s digging his bones.

Merle Travis wrote it. Good God!

45 comments:

  1. Is it a coincidence that Somerby is now quoting Sanders and that they are both advocating respect for those Trump voters?

    Sanders still envisions a class-based movement in which people march behind his promise to cure their economic woes in a revolution. If these people were stupid enough to vote for Trump, surely they are stupid enough to support Bernie! Why not?

    And Somerby is marching too. Just like he did during the last election when he damned our nominee, Clinton, with faint praise. Now he thinks it isn't so bad that all those people voted for Trump.

    Somerby's idiocies: (1) we've been failures for decades -- never mind that we elected Obama for two terms, (2) we think Trumpies are deeply undeserving -- never mind that they deserve everything we say about them for their stupidity in electing trump.

    Will Somerby's opinions change when Trump starts the next war? Depends what Sanders thinks, I guess.

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    1. If it's any solace, Bob has often mocked Kristof as something of a fraud. But this is a special issue for him, obviously.

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    2. In our view, Kristof is turning into one of the worst examples of a familiar type, the condemnatory moral scold. As a columnist, it seems to us that Kristof is becoming a bit of a basket case.

      That said, Kristof is almost completely in line with every part of the current Pseudo-Liberal Project,

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    3. Well put @2:03

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  2. Neither Johnny Cash nor Merle Travis were miners either. Some would say that makes them posers.

    There is nothing glamorous about black lung. Smart mining families do not want their kids to follow their dads into the mines. They want a better life for them. Mining is the job of last resort in areas that have few other work opportunities. That makes mining exploitative. I don't think Sanders (with his Vermont sensibilities) and Somerby (with his Harvard degree) should be romanticizing mining and excusing those who voted for Trump in order to keep their self-destructive choices alive instead of following Hillary to the local community college to learn a different skill, one with fewer health consequences and less impact on global warming. Evil Hillary, shame on her for suggesting miners learn a new trade!! Has she no empathy!!!!

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  3. Oreilly saddles lambs and you hear from Bob not. one. peep. As it is a matter of fact, a pass is given while meanwhile Maddow is guilty merely of horrrbile journalism and a phantasmagorical personality, obnoxious through and through and bordering on insane and all you get here is post and post, sentence after sentence about how it "hurts progressive interests". GET OF YOUR HIGH HORSE, WILL YA? Have you never felt the lovely feeling of eating ice cream through wax lips? Cable hosts improve. The meaning of words participates in the improvement. Plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it. It embraces an host's phrase, makes use of transgender, life affirming expressions, erases a false idea, and replaces it with the right idea, bozo.

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  4. Aggression is the natural response to pain. It occurs in people and animals. It is why a dog hit by a car will bite the person who tries to help it.

    Many people are feeling pain as a result of Trump's election. They are lashing out at Trump voters because of the hurt they, themselves feel.

    If Somerby had any empathy at all, he would understand that and not be inflicting more pain upon liberals who are lashing out at Trump voters.

    This is not just an election loss. I have students who are justifiably afraid they or their parents will be deported. I know many people who are afraid their health insurance will go away -- they know they cannot pay for their own medical expenses. Just as the miners are suffering, so are many of the people who DID NOT vote for Trump. If they say bad things about Trump voters, surely Somerby can understand why.

    You don't get people to show more empathy by castigating them, chiding them, lecturing them, day-in and day-out, as Somerby has been doing. People show empathy when they feel themselves safe and have emotional resources to spare. They don't show empathy when stressed and their coping resources are depleted. So piling on the negative characterizations of liberals, complaining at them, isn't going to generate greater empathy for Trump voters. AND it isn't going to win Sanders any support.

    Sanders -- who is the guy who put Trump into office. He deserves to be the brunt of liberal anger, not hapless former miners who voted for Trump. Sanders knew what he was doing and he still (1) accepted Russia-laundered campaign contributions in small amounts, unreportable but illegal foreign meddling; (2) repeated the fake news and ugly lies about Hillary, arguing all over the internet and in real life to undermine her campaign; (3) disrupted the Democratic convention and campaign efforts after the nomination, without a word from Bernie to cease and desist and rally behind Hillary (beyond a grudging statement); (4) forced Hillary to invest campaign resources fighting him, even after it was apparent he was losing, weakening her in the general election; (5) kept insisting he would have defeated Trump when that is patently wrong. Now he is openly supporting Trump against Democratic interests in some sort of narcissistic grandiose ambition, no doubt abetted by Russian agents who continue their attempts to destabilize our political process. Bernie should be ashamed -- but more than that he should WAKE UP and stop letting himself be manipulated.

    I cannot imagine what is wrong with Somerby but he has departed his previous insightful and useful criticism in favor of this manipulative sponsorship of a guy who wrong for America in a multitude of ways, while pretending to be supportive of liberal traditions. Somerby is not what he seems.

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    1. Bob's sad desent was gradual but pronounced. Even as he slid, a worthwhile point was occasionally brought forth. Now, not so much. These times have basically driven him around the bend. That does not excuse his mean spirited fury regarding parties he disagrees with while sheltering the likes of O"Reilly.

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    2. Somerby is as insightful and objective as ever. The polarization is extreme now and most of even the most historically sober political analysts have fallen victim to a political derangement syndrome of one kind or another.

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    3. anon 1:06, unfortunately, you are unable to reason in an adequate way, with your constant schtick that TDH is a big Sanders supporter who undermined Clinton's candidacy. There is zero basis supporting that. It's annoying to hear your idiotic ideas on this over and over again. It is not unreasonable to think that Sanders' challenge to Clinton hurt her in her campaign against Trump. But look at how other GOP figures attacked Trump - totally toxic, yet he managed to win (the electoral college which is what counts).(I voted for Clinton in the primaries, by the way). If democrats want to win, they need to either get more people who didn't vote and all who otherwise would have voted for them; or get a certain percentage of people who voted for Trump and other GOP candidates to switch their votes (or at lease not vote at all).

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    4. It doesn't work that way. If Democrats want to win, they need to select a candidate who appeals to the majority of voters in enough states to win the electoral college. That may not include the Hillary voters from the previous election, just as Hillary didn't win all of Obama's voters. Each candidate has to find his or her own coalition and it changes from election to election.

      People stayed home because of the campaign against Hillary portraying her as a liar and crook. There is little point in assuming that will happen to the next candidate. Something else will happen. Trump voters may or may not matter in the future, but there is little reason to pander to them any more than to any other demographic or subset of voters. And who will you lose by trying to attract Trump voters? Perhaps Democrats who are sickened by the attempt to woo those Trump supporters, or who are confused about where a candidate like that stands, or who are tired of being called stupid or unempathetic for disliking Trump and those who support him. Switching can go both directions.

      I am obviously a strong Clinton supporter. I didn't vote for Obama. In the reelection, I didn't vote for him because he betrayed his own promises and was too willing to compromise. He got better once reelection was no longer relevant -- my point is that he lost my vote by trying for the middle. I definitely won't vote for anyone who doesn't stand up against Trump. I've never voted anything but Democrat in my life, until the party betrayed Hillary in 2008, but there is no promise about 2020, especially if Sanders is nominated or someone like him, who thinks the way to be a populist is to support pussygrabbing liars. So, go ahead and urge Democrats to woo the Trump-right, but recognize that you do it at quite a bit of risk.

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  5. Consider the possibility that the fault is in yourself, bob somerby. You have been insulting liberals for years, yet by your own admission, they persist in the error of their ways.

    Perhaps you can show how one wins the Other over with kindness and empathy? Demonstrate that skill in communicating with us, and perhaps we poor liberals will be able to learn from your example.

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  6. Does Bob's heart really runneth over with the milk of human compassion for the struggling Trump voter, obviously a solid citizen
    confused by the cruel condescending liberals who will do nothing for them outside of supporting them on issue after issue?
    The five Billon Dollar Koch in the room is that while the liberals have virtually nothing to do with making the Trump voter who they are, the right media of Fox, Mark Levin, Limbaugh, program after program of nitwit snark and right misinformation, some of it masquerading as religious programing with a promise of an afterlife for the paid subscriber; has these unfortunate people in a state of severe confusion. And no, we are not talking about those whom might meanly be termed white trash or hillbillies. These are college educated people, members of the middle class whose common sense and basic civility has been warn down by a generation of this garbage. Day in day out, virtually every day of the year. It would be difficult to point to any of these programs which isn't mean spirited or snarky, in addition to the massive misinformation.
    Bob gave up on this predominate arm of the media just when it was, shockingly and with great danger to our Republic, gaining in ugliness (Alex Jones) and grabbing the ear of The President of The United States. Now the journalist Bob has gone the furthest in excusing ( "O"Reilly gets a pass!") is outed as a chronic workplace sex offender, the friend and promoter of a President whose background as a virtual rapist is lost among his sea of moral deficiencies. But don't forget, it's all our fault.
    It's true, Trump voters are not the central problem at this point, but one does tire of the endless, irrelevant apologia for those who voted for this degenerate slob. Time to take a vacation from such matters and deal with the massive problem at hand.
    As for the now freakish Bob Somerby, we should be generous enough to note the situation has clearly laid waste to his reason, and ravaged his basic compassion for the people he purports to defend. Does he really think the toxic snark of a Mark Levin or Alex Jones does not play out in the lives of women who have to live in a middle class world every day? I don't he would if he ever thought about it.
    What of those people who saw through this smokescreen, but now have to live in a world where they are daily derided as "snowflakes" (I heard much of this from drunken bros at a ballgame I attended the other day) from middle class white bully boys?
    Don't expect Bob to worry his beautiful mind. The O"Reilly fan gets a pass.

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  7. If you want to see the model of empathy, Hillary and Bill Clinton attended the inauguration. That puts them in the same category as Malala and MLK, in my opinion.

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    Replies
    1. A class act in comparison to Trump, but most of us not in prison are.

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  8. I grew up in Chicago in a working class family. The constant talk in my neighborhood was how to stop "them" from moving in. Not all people did this, but most did. We need to condemn people who choose to ignore basic facts. Many voters who vote Republican do this. It is not the fault of liberals that they choose to do this. A democracy requires that citizens be informed. Liberals did not make people ignore facts, logic, and reason.

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    1. Elsewhere, people who are experts in life under tyranny say we must defend our institutions and defend truth. I agree with you that we must not collude with the delusions of Trump voters. We don't have to call them names, but we cannot let them off the hook for their choices and we must refute the trash they talk at every opportunity. The people doing that don't need to be undermined by Somerby.

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    2. "They" meaning groups with low illegitimacy, drug, and crime rates like Asians and Jews?

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    3. Well, just who is derided them? Bob has to stoop to the letters section to make his care. Anyone in a leadership position been badmouthing these people? The much twisted deplorable comment was aimed at Trump and the White Nationalists he was bringing into his team.

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    4. The more the now freakish Bob identifies with the dominant images of Kristof, the less he understands his own life and his own predominate arm of the media or even his own arms . Maddow's estrangement from the acting subject is expressed by the fact that the Bob's gestures are no longer his own; they are the gestures of someone else who represents irrelevant apologia for those who voted for vacations from such matters and promises of an afterlife for the paid subscriber; has these unfortunate people in a state of severe confusion. And no, we are not talking about those whom might meanly be termed white trash or hillbillies. These are college educated people, members of the middle class whose common sense and basic civility has been warn down by a generation of this garbage. Day in day out, virtually every day of the year. It would be difficult to point to any of these programs which isn't mean spirited or snarky, compared with Bob, everything else must be acceptable, or in any case more rational and democratic in addition to the massive misinformation. And Maddow gets a pass.

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    5. This guy may be cashing a check from Russia. Glad he reads my posts so carefully, though, even if he cannot even get to square one in retort.

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    6. Wait, let me get this straight. You say you think that Russian agents are paying people to make comments about you in the comment section of the daily howler? Am I reading that right?

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  9. The conservative Power Line blog had a post similar to Bob's. They approvingly quoted the following comment from a Times reader:

    A lot of people who voted for Trump didn’t like him. I am one of them. We considered the alternative, the Clintons, and disliked them more.

    But it is now clear who the bigots are in this country. When you start referring to yourselves as “The Resistance,” the implication is clear. You view the other side as Nazis. It’s the same with calling those who reject the faith-based belief in catastrophic anthropogenic global warming “deniers.”

    Democrats are verging on psychosis because they have been roundly rejected across the nation to an unprecedented degree. They need to get over themselves and start acting like loyal citizens again and respect the process. Power is not an entitlement. You have to earn it.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/04/democrats-the-party-of-hate.php

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    1. Well, first you would have to go back to the deep archives of Adventures in Bobworld to find out for sure she did "run off to praise" Matthews. The adverbial expression Bob used, "run off to" indicates he witnessed something in person or, as is sometimes the case with the world's otherwise mostest "especially honest" blogger, the one who "ran and lied" was Bob.

      I'll bet her "lie" was the expression of an opinion, which cannot be equated with not telling the truth. And I'll bet her "praise" had something to do with an insult or two she might have levied in the process of whatever it was she said.

      That said, the fact that she passed on answering his question twice certainly merits that he "assume the worst" and heap withering unending scorn her way for seven and a half years. Shoot, as a liberal I would have flung poo on her like a chimp.

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    2. These artless run on sentences are the best indication this douche bag is not me.

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    3. Go fuck yourself, Comrade DinC.

      Democratic Senators represent over 55% of this countries' population compared to 45% of the population represented by repugs, yet your disgusting party controls the Senate with 52 Senators. Because of that anomaly, your senate leader decided to screw President Obama and deny his SCOTUS nominee even the courtesy of a hearing. Today he went nuclear and abolished the 60 vote cloture requirement for SCOTUS confirmation.

      The same holds true in the House where Democrats consistently win more votes yet wind up with less seats due to unbelievably corrupt gerrymandering, and your party relentless, shameless voter suppression efforts throughout the country.

      Bush junior lost the popular vote in 2000 and stole the presidency by running to his Supreme Court to stop the recount. This year, Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes and still won the electoral college.

      So don't push that bullshit that democrats "have been roundly rejected across the nation to an unprecedented degree." That is pure horseshit, you fucking warped troll.

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    4. 3:02 is not me. It is an imposter.

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    5. mm. Remember that time I vomited champagne when I was changing my brother's diapers? Asshole. You don't shit.

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    6. Pretty unseemly stuff even for mm these days. Duh. Does he not get that the Maddow was under surveillance when the Bob was caught writing about her? He probably does. This fake post signals we are leaving fools behind and might be able to salvage this blog. I would expect it won't be long before the stuff Daily Show is running on the O' Reilly rapes gets picked up, perhaps dooming this insane person.

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  10. Truly these points from Bob that form the intrinsic strength of cable news are no longer regarded in in the blogosphere. The opposite. As I have said, today one places no value on Maddow, on the intrinsic value of our MSNBC or Melissa Perry Harris, but rather apostles and armits proclaim that it is completely irrelevant whether one is right wing, liberal or Indian. If a talk show host internalizes such thinking, its own values are of no use. It has renounced the protection of its values, for they too must be protected and encouraged. A blogger that sees its cable hosts as worthless cannot possess the intrinsic will to withstand the competitive struggles of this blogging or anything else for that matter. Selena was murdered in cold blood. It needs no great minds, does not even want them any more. It will inevitably believe that all hosts are equal in terms of lies, and will no longer have a need to rise above the others. That is why one needs great hosts. It will no longer desire to watch Maddow, and that is why one needs Chris Hayes. Since Bob no longer value his race and see himself as the same as everyone else, he longer feels the inner need for happiness or fish soup, he no longer struggles, nor has the desire to for he has given O'Reilly A PASS!

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    1. Asshole, why don't you have the guts to post under your real name? Also, ding dong, the audience reached by MSNBC (Which features conservative hosts) is dwarfed by Fox and the rest of the right "media" and they are certainly the ones who have created the Trump voter, capitulation from the mainstream noted.

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    2. Not possessing even the honesty to make a case, the writer snarks under a smokescreen. How typical of what he seeks to defend.

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    3. You don't even have the temerity to use your name or any kind of bowels or suctions cups or anything that would prove the logic of Bob or his masters on high. So I would appreciated if stopped the games. JERK.

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    4. 2:07 How do you know I am not who I say I am?

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    5. What IS the problem, bro? Really.

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    6. Glad I could get a rise out you, loser. I know the dumb conservatives idea of humor well.

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    7. Unless, God help us, the fake Greg is Bob!!

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    8. Also "BRO" (I'd sooner be kin to a vulture bird) why don't you try defending Bob's take (not easy, but I could do it if I was being paid) with your own post instead of, however feebly, mocking the posts of others? Can't you take Bob's advice? Well, he never much takes it himself....

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    9. You don't have confidence in yourself?

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  12. Where the real world changes into simple images, the simple images become real beings and effective motivations of hypnotic behavior.

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  13. Hello, i am Jessica Wayne from TX, USA. Life without my husband was a real mess for me and my children I am so happy to get my Ex back through the help of Dr Noble the spell caster . My greatest surprise was that 48 hours after the Doctor prepared the spell for me, my husband who has abandoned me for 4 years suddenly called me unexpectedly and am so happy that we have come to become one again through the help of Dr Noble and am so happy to be with my husband once again. Dr Noble is a very wonderful spell caster, you can contact him if you need his assistant because i know he can also help you. contact him through his email: templeofjoyandprosperity@gmail.com immediately

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  14. I felt like ending it i lost my husband to another woman 2 weeks ago after 27 years of marriage . We had a lovely marriage but he started a relationship with a co worker who chased after him . He is living away near his work, and he refuses to talk to me or to come home . I am devastated and am finding it hard to cope i was emotionally down . I wish I did not love him and that I could move on but I can't . I don't know how to stop feeling like this I wish I could and its eating me away and I m starting to feel ill. I have degraded myself begging him to come home all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. As I was browsing through the internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr Noble can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and I also came across several testimonies about this particular man so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he did a spell for me. two days later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Noble . If you need a spell caster that can cast a spell that truly works, I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you. if you have any problem contact him, I give you 100% guarantee that he will help you, This is his details, E-mail: templeofjoyandprosperity@gmail.com , Web blog: http://drnoblespell.blogspot.com.ng/. Thank you all for reading.
    Caroline Elizabeth Diem USA California

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  15. Hey guys my wife and I have been married for 15 years. For over five years I have been dealing with jealousy issues because of flirting and her having emotional type affairs with other men. I felt like my masculinity was in question and if I said the way she was acting bothered me, it seemed to make matters worse or I was accused of being controling. During this period I did state I wanted a divorce if the behavior was not going to end: texting men a night, leaving for the weekend without letting me know where she was going or not responding to messages. We do have a son and basically it's been him and I for the last year on the weekends. She disconnected completely from being a good wife and mother. In April she said she wanted a separation and I said no we need to get into marriage counseling. We did try that, but she was not very responsive and didn't give any effort. Afterward she was adamant about separation and divorce. I continued to say no and that we needed to save our family. She presented a separation agreement and I had to hire a lawyer. Because of the above behavior my lawyer suggested a private investigator. The investigator discovered my wife was having an affair with a close friend of the family who also is married with children. We know the extended families. I feel like I should tell this man's wife about what happened. This adultery has devastated me emotionally, I feel betrayed and I'm physically drained. I know my wife is passionate in terms of her sexuality, and I can't get the thought of them out of my head. It makes me question my own manhood, and I feel very inferior or that he must be a better lover or what ever. The problem is my wife pursued him. She would go to him and she lured him into this adultery. I felt this was coming for some time and could not stop it. She was not only lying to me but also to our son about what she was doing and where she was going. My family is important, my son loves her and as crazy as it sounds so do I. Can you respond with a course of action on how to proceed? I was still have a very huge place in my heart for her. so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Ahmed can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a spell for me. 28 hours later, my wife came to me and apologized for the wrongs she did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I, my son and my wife are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Ahmed. as it is a place to resolve marriage/relationship issues, do you want to be sure if your spouse is being faithful to you or Do you want your Ex to come back to you Contact.: E-mail: Ahmedutimate@gmail.com or call/Whats-app: +2348160153829 save your crumbling home and change of grades its 100% safe. I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you.
    David L. Ollis, 43yrs, UK

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