THE "DID DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY SAY THAT" FILE: Digest of reports!

MONDAY, MARCH 18, 2019

Starting tomorrow, Mathematicians gone wild:
In this morning's New York Times, David Leonhardt builds an intriguing framework around Donald Trump's latest remarks.

"Trump Encourages Violence," his hard-copy headline says. Meanwhile, as Leonhardt starts, he makes an apt observation:
LEONHARDT (3/18/19): The president of the United States suggested last week that his political supporters might resort to violence if they didn’t get their way.

The statement didn’t even get that much attention. I’m guessing you heard a lot more about the college-admissions scandal than about the president’s threat of extralegal violence. So let me tell you a little more about the threat.
Leonhardt goes on to report and discuss Trump's latest remarks. Before he does, he makes an apt observation about the hysteria on display, mainly at his own newspaper, about the current, extremely limited, "college-admissions scandal."

This afternoon, we'll continue to discuss the New York Times' hysterical treatment of that rather limited scandal. In our view, the Times' absurd behavior helps us see why so many people voted for a disordered being like Trump, and may well do so again.

Concerning Trump, we'll also note this: In the first half hour of today's Morning Joe, Joe and Mika focused on the notion that Trump is some form of "mentally ill."

They didn't use that term, of course. Once again, we'd say it's fairly clear that network policy is forcing them to speak about Trump's mental condition in euphemisms.

That said, the thrust of their comments was clear. For their text, they worked from George Conway's recent tweet about the president:

"His condition is getting worse."

Are Joe and Mika required to work in euphemisms? "People don't like us talking about it on the air, so we'll talk about it on the air," Joe said as the veiled discussion began with the first posting of Conway's tweet at 6:07 Eastern.

"Reason will tell you something is very, very wrong...He's not well," Mika said at 6:19 Eastern, as the Conway tweet appeared again.

"People who know him say this privately," Joe replied. At the Morning Joe site, see the segment bearing the headline, "Trump lashes out on Twitter..."

Trump's "condition" may be getting worse, but so is that of the mainstream press and much of the liberal world. The New York Times' treatment of the "college-admissions scandal" stands as a case in point, as we'll be noting all week.

We'd be inclined say the same thing about the recent claims from cable stars which we examined last week. Trump's "condition" may well be getting worse at this time. But back in August 2017, at the time of the Charlottesville mayhem, did he actually say the various things they alleged in recent weeks?

We'd have to say that no, he did not. Meanwhile, such claims by leading corporate pseudo-liberals help explain why so many people believe they're simply watching a "witch hunt" as the Coopers, the Acostas, the Burnetts and the Shieldses take turns topping each other about the various things Trump allegedly said.

This afternoon, we'll continue with our ruminations about the New York Times' remarkable treatment of the "college-admissions scandal." Starting tomorrow, we'll offer a series of reports from a loftier realm.

Those reports will concern the lofty realm where our physicists, philosophers and mathematicians help us see how reflexively sub-rational we "rational animals" actually are.

We'll work from the remarkable logic on display in Mario Livio's 2009 book, Is God a Mathematician? Eventually, this will take us to the jumbled but highly instructive work of the later Wittgenstein, who explained the way our species' ballyhooed rationality persistently breaks down "when doing philosophy."

What the heck has Livio said? That topic starts tomorrow.

Meanwhile, did Donald Trump actually say the various things major pundits alleged? Last week's reports went like this:
Tuesday, March 12: In a storm of critical paraphrase, we'll assess what the journalists said!"

Wednesday, March 13:
Mark Shields reported what Donald Trump said. Huckabee Sanders said different!

Thursday, March 14: One brave leader boldly spoke, bluntly condemning Nazis!

Friday, March 15: Did Donald Trump really say those things? It's all anthropology now!
Tomorrow, Mathematicians gone wild! Also, we'll sift basic facts about college admissions and college enrollments all through the course of the week.

37 comments:

  1. "Reason will tell you something is very, very wrong...He's not well,"

    Yes, Bob, elitist 'reason' tells the establishment elites that a politician who speaks his mind, unscripted, is not well. We know that, we understand, we're not surprised.

    "extremely limited, "college-admissions scandal.""

    Yes, Bob, we understand that you're annoyed by corruption scandals of the liberal elite. DNC emails, numerous Clinton scandals, and now college admissions. We understand.

    Protest all you want, Bob, but please keep in mind Shakespearean words: "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I get what the "elitist" are saying, but what the fuck is Trump trying to say? It's all mumbo jumbo. His tweet about GM looks like straight-up "socialism", but he keeps telling the rubes he's against "socialism" so, supposedly it isn't that.
      The country needs a gibberish translator to even get an understanding of what the doddering old fool is trying to say.

      Delete
    2. I don't read tweets, any tweets. Or very rarely anyway.

      It is my impression that tweets (as opposed to, say, blog posts) represent immediate raw reaction to whatever catches the eye.

      It okay to read them, I suppose, but in my opinion what is foolish here is brooding over them, trying to "get an understanding"...

      Delete
    3. Leftists' impulse is to deem their political enemies "insane" or otherwise unworthy and then execute them for the greater good. It's what they will always try to do. Fortunately we won't let them.

      Delete
    4. Let me be the first to congratulate you on not letting the Leftists do something you just accused them of trying to do that you made up out of whole cloth.

      The imaginary people who don't think you're a moron, must be vey proud of you.

      Delete
  2. "Trump's "condition" may be getting worse, but so is that of the mainstream press and much of the liberal world."

    Oh, well, that excuses Trump then. No need to worry about the 52 tweets he made this weekend, including retweet of White Supremacists.

    Somerby can continue his "water isn't really wet" diatribe about how misunderstood Trump is, while the rest of the country understands completely where he stands on the NZ killings and similar mass murders committed in his name.

    When will Somerby address Trump's use of the term "invasion" describe asylum seekers and immigrants? No one wants to argue exact statements vs gist paraphrase with Somerby when Trump daily shows exactly how he feels about immigrants and mass shooters (or murderers who drive cars into crowds).

    I thought it was bad when Somerby tried to excuse Roy Moore (because the mamas said it was OK). This defense of Trump's failure to condemn White Supremacy is wrong and the flimsy complaint that mainstream news put words in his mouth or made Trump seem like a callous racist cannot excuse the president's failure to show moral leadership, his repeated calls for violence (the recent tweet only the latest instance) and his abetting of the desires for race war on the alt-Right.

    Somerby is as big a crackpot as our president.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What was the retweet of White Supremacists?

      What is your basis for thinking the claim "Trump's "condition" may be getting worse, but so is that of the mainstream press and much of the liberal world." excuses Trump?

      Delete
    2. Somerby catalogues his last week of posts, each of them excusing Trump on the basis that Sanders said he condemns racism, so criticizing his poor response to Charlottesville (as all the journalists quoted did) is inaccurate. I think my reasoning about this is clear.

      Here is an article describing the President's retweets of White Supremacists on Sunday:

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/18/sunday-tweetstorm-trump-elevates-series-conspiracy-theories-theorists/?utm_term=.a60cc916fd28

      Trump has been retweeting outright White Supremacists with handles like "White Genocide" since well before the election and continuing throughout his presidency. Don Jr. does it too.

      Somerby has repeatedly offered Trump's supposed "mental illness" as a reason for his behavior, suggesting that if the press doesn't focus on that, it cannot criticize his behavior on any other basis. Somerby claims that the press is catering to Democrats by calling the president names such as racist because it "feels good" to liberals to hear others called such terms.

      Delete
    3. Question: are you afraid that if Trump won't condemn these "White Supremacists" enthusiastically enough, you will start sympathizing with them?

      If not, what do you care about these condemnations? What's the use of them?

      Perhaps you're confusing American president with a priest (the Pope?) whose role is to praise Virtue, and condemn Sin, no?

      Thanks.

      Delete
    4. There are no retweets from "White Supremacists" in that Washington Post article.

      Delete
    5. He's not excusing Trump. You're inventing that.

      Delete
    6. "If not, what do you care about these condemnations? What's the use of them?"

      Thank you for not trying to gaslight us into thinking Trump isn't a bigot. More like this, please.

      Delete
    7. @10:15A,

      I thought it was bad when Somerby tried to excuse Roy Moore (because the mamas said it was OK).

      You’ve been warned about telling this particular lie before. By me, actually. Moore, aka the Gadsden Mall Creeper, has been accused of inappropriate behavior with underage girls, including an accusation of sexual assault, none of which has TDH either excused or minimized, and all of which Moore has denied.

      Moore is apparently attracted to women much his junior. He married his wife when she was 24 and he was 38. The age gap may creep you out, but if the women he dated were over the age of 18 at the time, and they enjoyed his company of their own free will, then it’s none of your damn business. Doubly so, if the family of those women approved.

      Moore is still married (now for almost 35 years), his wife is still 14 years younger than he, it’s still none of your damn business, and that’s still TDH’s opinion.

      And I don’t know why you’re still lying about this.

      But you should stop.

      Delete
    8. My motto is that if you're old enough to vote at sixteen, you're old enough to date Roy Moore.

      Or something.

      Delete
    9. Two of the women accusing Roy Moore were 14 not 16 at the time he assaulted them. Now Roy Moore is talking about running for office again.

      Delete
    10. Deadrat,

      When Somerby discussed Moore, he repeatedly refused to look at the accusations of alleged wrongdoing against younger girls (ages 14) and instead focused on the "dating" of 18 and 19 year olds, as if that were all Moore was being accused of doing. His behavior with the 18 & 19 year olds (while he was considerably older) was out in the open and thus more accessible than the things he was accused of doing in private with the much younger girls. But Somerby discussed the matter as if that were all the behavior Moore was accused of. And he claimed that if the mothers of those girls considered it OK, how could it be wrong.

      There was also evidence in public of Moore stalking younger girls at the mall and even visiting one in high school and calling her to the office via P.A. system. There was the signed yearbook of a girl who he met at the diner where she worked well before age 18. So the behavior with the older girls was offered as evidence of his less public behavior with younger girls.

      If you want to argue also that a man's behavior with young girls below the age of consent is no one's damn business, you will be on shaky ground because such behavior is illegal and there is a duty to protect children from adult stalkers.

      I am not lying about what Somerby did. You can go back and read his several essays. He focuses only on the 18 year olds and ignores the younger girls as if they did not exist. Then he pretends that the accusations are only about the barely legal teens. As if people were upset only about them and not the 14 year olds, 15 year olds and 16 year olds he was following around (according to mall staff and his coworkers and the girls themselves).

      I am not lying about what Somerby said. I also believe that Moore did those things because his pattern of interest in much younger women supports the other accusations and because the women have corroborating evidence and because there do exist men like him despite the right's desire to rehabilitate him now that he is older and wishes to run for office. And I do not understand why Somerby went to such lengths to defend a conservative candidate for office, and if he wished to defend him, why he couldn't do so honestly by considering all of the accusations, not creating a straw man that people were only upset about the dating of 18 & 19 year olds because of the age gap, and not because he was being accused of molesting children.

      But you hang in there. You have the right to comment here even if no one cares about your opinions.

      Delete
    11. @11:52,

      When Somerby discussed Moore, he repeatedly refused to look at the accusations of alleged wrongdoing against younger girls (ages 14) and instead focused on the "dating" of 18 and 19 year olds, as if that were all Moore was being accused of doing.

      This is a lie. Here’s TDH from 12/4/17:

      Leigh Corfman accused Roy Moore of a very serious crime. Assuming her accusation is accurate, we're glad she did. We're glad she decided to push back against Moore's denials last week.

      Leigh Corfman accused Moore of a serious crime. But Gloria Deason didn’t.


      Corfman accused Moore of assaulting her when she was 14; Deason has said that she dated Moore when she was 18 and 19. TDH’s complaint is that the media’s concentrating on Moore’s legal, if creepy, dating habits distracts from the criminal allegations against Moore, not to mention his insane public record

      Here is TDH again on 12/5/17:

      …several women have made very serious accusations against Moore, accusing him of serious sexual misconduct in 1979.

      As he opened his segment that night. Lawrence [O’Donnell] didn't mention the fact that Moore stood accused of assaulting two teenage girls. He seemed to be more upset by the fact that Moore had dated teenage girls—and that he'd even married someone fourteen years younger!

      Again, TDH never disappeared the accusations against Moore of criminality; he complains about the media obsession with the large but legal age gap between Moore and some women (including the woman who has been his wife for over 30 years).

      So the behavior with the older girls was offered as evidence of his less public behavior with younger girls.

      So the legal behavior was offered as evidence of illegal behavior? What’s wrong with you?

      And that’s not a rhetorical question. Seriously, what’s wrong with you?

      If you want to argue also that a man's behavior with young girls below the age of consent is no one's damn business….

      Fuck you for implying that I have or would argue any such thing.

      I am not lying about what Somerby did. You can go back and read his several essays. He focuses only on the 18 year olds and ignores the younger girls as if they did not exist.

      You are lying. I have gone back and read several of his essays. I’ve even quoted some above. TDH is criticizing media figures for tut-tutting about Moore’s legal age-gap propensities. I’m sorry he didn’t write the blog entry you wanted. But he does not ignore the serious charges.

      I am not lying about what Somerby said.

      Yes, you are. As I’ve shown above with TDH’s own words.

      I also believe that Moore did those things because his pattern of interest in much younger women supports the other accusations

      Then you’re an idiot who doesn’t understand how evidence works.

      > and because the women have corroborating evidence

      Liar. Name one.

      None of the women making criminal complaints have corroborating evidence, which isn’t too surprising after all this time.

      and because there do exist men like him

      So because pedophiles exist, Moore must be one? Seriously, what’s wrong with you?

      And I do not understand why Somerby went to such lengths to defend a conservative candidate for office

      You had me at “not understand.” And you’re lying again. TDH didn’t defend Moore; he attacked the media.

      You have the right to comment here even if no one cares about your opinions.

      I don’t need your permission to comment here, and there’s one person who cares about my opinions, and that’s the one who responded to them.

      Delete
  3. "SANDERS: That's not at all what the president was stating, not—not then, not at any point. The president has been incredibly clear and consistently and repeatedly condemned hatred, bigotry, racism in all of its forms, whether it's in America or anyone else, and to say otherwise is simply untrue. April?"

    The President says something appalling and Sarah Huckabee Sanders walks it back and tries to claim that the President actually meant and said what he should have said in the first place -- but didn't. In other words, she lies about what Trump said and what he believes, while the President blatantly contradicts her in his tweets and follow-on statements.

    And now Somerby chooses to believe Sanders instead of the things we all heard the President say (or not say) about those marchers in Charlottesville.

    The President waited for days before reluctantly delivering a statement obviously written for him condemning neo-Nazi violence. The wait speaks volumes. So does his reluctance to deliver the statement. So does the fact that he could not speak from his own heart about abhorring violence. So does his return to invoking violence and use of eliminationist rhetoric against his enemies and immigrants.

    Somerby won't deal with any of this. He won't even deal with the lack of credibility of Sanders, who has repeatedly lied to save face for the President, to try and make him seem a tiny bit more presidential. But whatever she says is good enough for Somerby, since his main intent is to pillory the so-called mainstream press and not to discuss the fact that our president is a White Supremacist who says he doesn't see anything wrong with America First as a slogan or calling himself a Nationalist, or throwing paper towels at people who need hurricane aid or putting children in cages because their parents are fleeing death in Central America, or the many, many instances of racist behavior shown by Trump in business, on his TV shows, during his campaign and since his election.

    Somerby thinks even legitimate uses of the word "racist" are wrong because of the white backlash the term evokes among white voters, and because Somerby himself apparently cannot identify racist speech and behavior when anyone does it, including our President. Is it wrong to drive a car into a crowd of protesters because you don't want Jews to replace you? Somerby can't tell, because the word racist confuses him and the President says there are good people on both sides -- both inside the car and outside it, presumably.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you base this claim on "And now Somerby chooses to believe Sanders instead of the things we all heard the President say (or not say) about those marchers in Charlottesville." ?

      Delete
  4. “we'd say it's fairly clear that network policy is forcing them to speak about Trump's mental condition in euphemisms. “

    “Fairly” clear, is it?

    “President Trump is said to be questioning things he has previously said to be true ("Access Hollywood" tape, Obama's birthplace.) Psychiatrist Lance Dodes says this is a sign of mental illness. He joins Lawrence O'Donnell”
    (https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/psychiatrist-trump-s-mental-state-an-enormous-present-danger-1106524227640)

    'The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump': 27 Psychiatrists Assess | The Last Word | MSNBC
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nhoGIvOKJU

    Trump's mental health: 'The elephant in the room'
    https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/trump-s-mental-health-the-elephant-in-the-room-883814979800

    MSNBC star Mika Brzezinski questions Trump’s mental health: ‘He is not fit, possibly not even well’
    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/msnbc-star-mika-brzezinski-questions-trumps-mental-health-he-is-not-fit-possibly-not-even-well

    Trump Is 'Mentally Ill' Says Former Vermont Governor and Doctor Howard Dean
    'I’ve long believed the president is mentally ill,' Dean, who is a doctor, said in discussion hosted by MSNBC's Alex Witt
    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-is-mentally-ill-says-former-vermont-governor-howard-dean-1.6445032

    Ex-Bush Ethics Counsel: Trump Mentally Ill, Must Be Removed

    Read Newsmax: Ex-Bush Ethics Counsel: Trump Mentally Ill, Must Be Removed

    President Donald Trump is not well mentally and must be removed under the 25th Amendment, Richard Painter, the former chief ethics attorney for President Geroge W. Bush, told MSNBC

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/richard-painter-trump-mentally-ill/2019/02/19/id/903287/

    MSNBC's ‘Morning Joe’: Trump Mentally Ill, Has Dementia; Remove Him From Office
    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/msnbcs-morning-joe-trump-mentally-ill-has-dementia-remove-him-office

    This list is the result of a brief search. There is more...much more.

    Somerby hedges his bet by using the word “fairly”, and saying it is “fairly clear.” That is the phrase used by someone who, rather than describing a fact, is describing his own perceptions.

    Somerby could just acknowledge that the term “mentally ill” has been used over and over on MSNBC; thus there is no network policy forcing the hosts to speak in euphemisms. He could instead examine those discussions, critique them as much as he likes, but he should also take note of how these kinds of discussions are received by outlets such as Newsmax and Fox News, both of which ran stories about MSNBC’s labeling of Trump as mentally ill (as linked above).

    At least, that is what an honest media critic would do.

    ReplyDelete
  5. “Those reports will concern the lofty realm where our physicists, philosophers and mathematicians help us see how reflexively sub-rational we "rational animals" actually are.”

    One can’t help feeling that a criticism of “physicists, philosophers and mathematicians” is off target. These are academics, most of them toiling away obscurely in colleges and universities around the country. They have little political power. Power is in the hands of politicians and business interests, including the corporate owners of our media. But Somerby wants to focus instead on the perceived cultural (liberal?) elitism in academia, a critique that lines up nicely with right-wing critiques. This isn’t to say there isn’t elitism in academia, but this kind of critique is a distraction from the true forces driving our discourse.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I did not believe Trump when he said he condemned the white supremacists and neo-Nazis, because I, like Bob Somerby, believe that Trump is mentally ill, and that he makes constant false statements, which calls into question every single fucking thing this “President” says.

    ReplyDelete
  7. No sane person thinks Trump has a "condition" or that it is "getting worse." We have Trump-deranged leftists who were infuriated by their unexpected defeat in November 2016 and who cannot come to terms with reality.

    Trump is who he has always been, a person who says what he thinks and doesn't give two shits about political correctness. It worked for him, making him billions and winning him the most powerful position on earth.

    "It's getting worse" means "He refuses to be cowed by deranged leftist politicians and leftists in the media who talk the same way he talks behind closed doors."

    When all else fails bring out the putrid Soviet accusations of "insanity." Not going to work. Everyone sees it just like they did in 2016 and Trump will be reelected.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Russia?
      Where's the proof that Russia got all those bigots to vote for Trump? The Russia story is just the politically-correct reason Trump won the election. Corporate America (AKA the media) doesn't want to lose eyeballs by pointing out Right-wing bigotry, so they've spent 26 months trying to find some other excuse for Trump's election. Like Trump's businesses, their attempts are doomed to failure.

      Delete
    2. You have to look at class not race. Democrats need to appeal to voters on the basis of class. The Republicans have perfected talking to workers about class issues (disingenuously) and the Democrats have not (if they did, it would also be disingenuous as they are also in the pocket of the various industrial complexes). Class not race. These are the issues that are most popular and appeal to huge majorities of people who vote (of all races). Class issues are the appeal of Trump, not bigotry. You have to understand how unproductive it is to make race the issue. Not only is it simply wrong, it's offensive to the voters of the middle and lower class who are voting on class issues and it gives the right ammunition to distance these voters further from liberalism. Democrats need to learn how to talk to voters about class issues and make that the center issue. (It's why Obama won.)

      Delete
    3. Not a bug, it's a feature. The mission of modern American liberalism (and European 'social democracy', a-la Tony Blair) is to provide faithful service to global finance.

      Dividing the working class into waring 'identity' fractions while portraying "class struggle" as a wicked and threatening concept is their major strategy.

      Delete
    4. Brent Bump,
      The Trump voters burning Trump Tower to the ground after Trump put Wall Street in charge of the economy and the EPA is proof positive that your theory is correct.
      Also, their strong support of 5-year olds fleeing gang-ridden and war-torn countries, so that they can come to this country to get an economic chance has convinced me as well.

      We know how Trump won the presidency. It was every reason in the world, except that Trump voters were turned on by Trump's bigotry. OK, not every reason in the world, just any reason in the world except the bigotry.

      Delete
    5. "Trump is who he has always been, a person who says what he thinks and doesn't give two shits about political correctness. It worked for him, making him billions and winning him the most powerful position on earth.:

      I don't give a shit about political correctness, and instead of being a Right-wing hero, they bitch when I point out their bigotry.

      Delete
    6. Brent Bump,
      Interesting theory. Yet they cheered along corporations getting huge tax breaks, after those same corporations crashed the world's economy through fraud.
      Maybe you're correct it isn't race, it's class. And the Right is on the side of the upper class, not the working classes.

      Delete
    7. The Right being anti-PC is another made-up meme. Devin Nunes sued Twitter $250 million for NOT being politically correct, just yesterday.

      Delete
    8. Nothing says "class concerns" like insisting on a massive austerity campaign during the worst economic recession in 6 decades, as Republicans did from 2009 to 2012.
      Get the fuck out of here with your nonsense.

      Delete
    9. Brent Bump,
      Meh. That's some OK gaslighting, I guess. If I had my druthers, I'd much rather be gaslighted about Trump being anti-war, what with his budget proposal slashing social services and hugely increasing the military budget.

      Delete
  8. Anon @3:21 makes a point that ought to be inconvenient for Bob Somerby.

    Somerby has called Rachel Maddow “Tailgunner” and accused her of McCarthyism numerous times, usually in reference to her coverage of Bridgegate, or Carter Page, etc. And yet, she was reporting facts about ongoing legal matters, not making baseless charges against random innocent people.

    But Somerby keeps relentlessly charging Trump with mental illness, offering no proof of this, and he continually exhorts the press to discuss Trump’s mental illness, even though there is no possibility of ever proving this assertion. If that isn’t an example of McCarthyism on Somerby’s part, then what is?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Trump's not mentally ill. It just seems like it because he's a Republican.

    ReplyDelete
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