LOS ANGELES STORY: Meets a Manhattan mystery!

THURSDAY, AUGUST 23, 2018

Part 3—A mystery that's easily solved:
It's a bit like Rodney Dangerfield's boxing match—the famous fight at which the hockey game broke out.

In this case, a Los Angeles story was underway—and, to borrow from Woody Allen, a Manhattan mystery broke out!

The Los Angeles story of which we speak involves gigantic "achievement gaps." As you may recall, those achievement gaps look like this:
Average scores, Los Angeles Unified School District
Grade 8 math, 2017 Naep

White students: 298.28
Black students: 253.66
Hispanic students: 259.99
Asian-American students: 300.54
As judged by a very rough, though common-used, rule of thumb, those black kids are 4.5 years behind their white counterparts—at the end of eighth grade! That was our Los Angeles story. It's a story you'll never see discussed by your favorite corporate stars.

Last week, this Los Angeles story was discussed in the New York Times. In the course of that discussion, our Manhattan mystery broke out.

The Los Angeles story was discussed in this opinion column. Back east, most likely in Manhattan, someone had decided to put the column in print—and at one point, the ccolumn said this:
KAPLAN (8/15/18): I believed, even as a fifth grader, that education is a social contract and that Los Angeles was uniquely suited to carry it out. Los Angeles would surely accomplish what Louisiana could not.

I was wrong. Today Los Angeles and California as a whole have abandoned integration as the chief mechanism of school reform and embraced charter schools instead.
According to the Times identity line, the author teaches writing at Antioch University, Los Angeles. Within the context of the column, it seems clear that she is saying that "integration" should be "the chief mechanism of school reform" in L.A.

Hence our Manhattan mystery! The mystery shapes up like this:

Why would someone at the New York Times decide to publish a column advancing such a suggestion? We ask that question because student demographics within the Los Angeles public schools look exactly like this:
Student population, LAUSD
Latino students: 74.0%
White students: 9.8%
Black students: 8.4%
Asian-American students: 6.0%
That's a perfectly fine-looking mix to us. But who are you going to "integrate" there? And after you've accomplished this "integration," what is supposed to happen? How is that "integration" supposed to address those giant achievement gaps?

Our Los Angeles story is simple. Those punishing achievement gaps plainly suggest that there's room for major improvement in L.A.'s schools, even room for "reform."

Our Manhattan mystery is this:

Why would someone at the New York Times think it makes sense to see "integration" as the answer to this Los Angeles problem?
When we write about urban schools, is there any requirement—any expectation—that our work needs to make any sense?

As Moses says to the Holy Trinity in the old Paul Reiser joke:

As we really going to play some golf? Or are we just here to BLANK around?

Tomorrow: The indifference keeps rolling along

60 comments:

  1. The main problem with urban schools is not segregation but privatization.

    Is it a coincidence that the NY Times and Somerby are both focusing on problems with the LA Schools just at the point when the teacher's union is taking a strike vote?

    According to teachers:

    "Teachers are asking for smaller class sizes, reductions in standardized testing, a 2 percent bonus, 6.5 percent salary increases and a $500 stipend for materials and supplies, according to California News Wire Services. Teachers are also interested in expanding charter school accountability, spending more money on ethnic studies and bilingual education, and creating school climate and discipline plans, according to a recent open letter from the union.

    A social studies teacher in the LAUSD school district, Glenn Sacks, wrote in the Daily News that teachers often spend time on things like subbing, yard duty, administrative duties, and test proctoring, which is not an effective use of teaching professionals’ time, and added that “The insulting 2 percent ‘raise’ LAUSD has offered us doesn’t even keep up with current inflation.”

    ---end quote

    I can understand why the NY Times might support the plutocratic efforts to privatize school districts, but why is Somerby helping them? His recent claims that Hispanic kids in LA are doing poorly only play into the hands of those opposing teacher efforts to improve schooling.

    When some place like New York takes a sudden interest in schools on the West Coast, someone should be asking why? and why now? Is it too much to ask that Somerby do his media critic job and ask those kinds of questions too?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The NAEP is "standardized testing". Also, PISA scores just came out. Expect another rant about them, especially since Kevin Drum is talking about them.

      Delete
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  2. Somerby ignores the part of the New York Times sentence that says "...embraced charter schools instead". Why is Los Angeles embracing charter schools? Maybe Somerby should be writing about that.

    The involvement of monied interests in public education is a story of reform gone wrong. It is about profiteering and ideologues interfering in our children's education. It never should have happened in the first place, but financial pressures made schools vulnerable.

    But Somerby favors charter schools. So he doesn't say anything about the influence of billionaires on education, their steady incursion into a field where they do not belong. What happens when commercial interests take over schooling? Why are most teachers against it? What was the influence of private money on Common Core? What has Betsy DeVos been doing?

    Somerby is fixated on NAEP and opposing "integration" while important school-related issues go unaddressed. What if he were doing this to help the plutocrats, to distract liberals from issues that matter? Could he do any better job of keeping our focus away from holding charter schools accountable if he were being paid by someone for his efforts?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What has Betsy DeVos been doing?

      Just what any batshit movement conservative wingnut billionaire would do:

      **********
      According to the New York Times, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is looking at allowing schools to use the Student Support and Academic Enrichment grants—part of the $1 billion Every Student Succeeds Act of 2015—to buy firearms.
      ****************

      President Chickenshit hires only the best you know.

      Delete
    2. Trump and Obama are basically the same. The differences are dwarfed by the similarities when you look at it objectively.

      Delete
    3. Hey, yeah, Obama and Trump are both men, both human beings, both have two legs, two arms, one nose. They both uh, uh, uh...?

      Delete
    4. @3:33

      Did your daddy name you that so you'd grow up tough?

      Were you too slow a learner to be named "Sue"?

      Delete
    5. Here’s TDH on charter schools back on November 11, 2016:

      <quote>
      Let's establish the basic parameters of the current drama. In this corner, we aren't opposed to charter schools. We support their continued existence, especially in service to low-income kids.

      On balance, we think charter schools are part of a needed set of experiments. We aren't opposed to charter schools. We're simply opposed to ludicrous, scripted claims advanced on their behalf.
      </quote>

      Emphasis mine.

      What if he [TDH] were doing this to help plutocrats,….? Could he do any better j… if he were being paid by someone for his efforts?

      I don’t know. What if you could read for comprehension?

      Delete
    6. I don't see what you are quibbling about now. Somerby is saying he supports charter schools, especially for low income kids. Obama did too, as did Arne Duncan. But charter schools aren't working out as hoped. There is now data about them and they are not an improvement, especially in areas where there is little oversight.

      But to go back to Somerby...lately he has been very supportive of a number of conservative talking points, while claiming to be a liberal. Support for charter schools alone wouldn't indicate that he is working for plutocrats, but his ongoing support for one after another of the right's talking points does make a longtime reader suspicious.

      You think I have a problem with reading comprehension, I am beginning to think you are deliberately blind. There is a lot of evidence now that Somerby isn't anything like any liberal I know. I have left open the possibility that he is a misguided Bernie supporter with some odd economic views or a taste for revolution, but I don't actually think that's what's going on. I think he has turned conservative in his old age, but didn't bother to change his license plates.

      Deadrat, don't bother to tell me Somerby never said anything about license plates anywhere. You are being tedious. The point of discussing things with people who hold different views is to think about what they are saying, not insist that they must read and think about things exactly the way you do, or they have reading comprehension problems.

      Delete
    7. Huge deficits, huge debt, huge military, huge spending, non-stop war in the Middle East, un drained swamp, system that permits elections to be bought, huge health care costs for the average Cunt, Nafta, military industrial complex swimming in free money.

      You are fed token differences to excite your preferred villain or hero which keeps you eye off the big picture.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous on August 23, 2018 at 4:16 PM,

      I suspect that when you say I’m being tedious, what you really mean is that you’re fed up with my calling you out on your bullshit. It’s not that I think you have a problem with reading comprehension; it’s just that’s the most charitable conclusion possible. Otherwise you’re either a troll like the apparently-late-and-unlamented Mao or you’re a moral and intellectual idiot like David in Cal. And since I’m a charitable kind of guy, I’m gonna go with the fact that you simply don’t understand what you read.

      TDH says he’s in favor of charter schools when they’re part of necessary experiments to serve low-income kids. This is entirely consistent with liberal sensibilities. That charter schools have failed because they’ve been turned over with little oversight to right-wing grifters doesn’t mean that charter schools inevitably fail to serve students.

      You don’t have to think exactly the way I do. But if you constantly come to conclusions based on faulty claims, then you’ve got a problem. For instance, you can’t name a single conservative talking point that TDH supports. Not on tax cuts for the wealthy, not on the imagined dangers of immigration, not on voter suppression, not on fetusolatry, et cetera ad infinitum et ad nauseam.

      Now I’ve been wrong before. I think the last time was 1967. May. In the last two weeks of that month, if I recall correctly. So it’s possible that I’m wrong about you. The way to demonstrate that is to quote TDH in context taking an illiberal, rightard position. But you won’t be able to do that, mostly because TDH isn’t an advocate; he’s a scold about the failings of main-stream media.

      Take the issue of whether Don Jr committed a crime at Trump Tower. Faux News says absolutely not; MSNBC says absolutely so. TDH says it’s not so clear: legal experts differ, the law itself isn’t so specific, the FEC rulings aren’t dispositive, and court rulings are too few to be of guidance. And guess what, I’ve actually read the relevant portions of 18USC and 52USC and FEC rulings on the matter — which I’ll bet is more than you can say — and TDH is right. But he doesn’t agree with you in your ignorance, so you’ll say he’s mouthing conservative talking points and cannot a liberal.

      I’m not blind to TDH’s faults. I think he’s off base on the Giuliani “truth isn’t truth” matter. I don’t get the whole rock making thing, i don’t have a problem with newspapers and cable news programs reporting on frivolous stories, and I consistently ridicule TDH’s willful ignorance about science. But I understand what TDH writes, and I don’t think you do.

      You say you think TDH isn’t a liberal (or at least not like the ones you know), you think he might be a Bernie supporter, you think he’s turned conservative.

      Sorry, but you lost me at think.

      Delete
    9. @deadrat:
      I'm not anon 4:16, but you always seem to forget that Somerby doesn't just bash the media; he also bashes liberals. Things like "dumb, stupid, lazy, exude a moral squalor", etc. Things that sound like they came from Fox or Breitbart. Since he calls himself a liberal, one would think he might offer constructive criticism that he feels would help liberals back to political power, that is if he cares about liberal policy on important matters. Instead, he mocks and ridicules. If you or he find that helpful, ok. But it plays right into the hands of conservatives who say the same kinds of things.

      Delete
    10. So, I'm not allowed to have opinions without you calling them bullshit.

      I do understand what Somerby writes and I disagree with much of it. I wouldn't bother expressing my disagreement if he didn't label himself liberal. That offends my sense of truth.

      I will try quoting the parts I find offensive, to better illustrate my points.

      Delete
    11. It's true liberals are dumb, stupid, lazy, and exude a moral squalor. The truth hurts. Why do you want to be protected from him telling the truth? Why do you want the truth softened? It does not make one less liberal if they point out to other liberals the truth. Insisting so is dumb, stupid and lazy! Sigh. No balls these people. No brains. No balls.

      Delete
    12. Thanks, anon 6:26. Right on cue. I rest my case.

      Delete
    13. Anonymous on August 23, 2018 at 6:01 PM,

      OK, so you’re not Anonymous @4:16. God forbid that any of you have the common courtesy to adopt a nym.

      What’s your point? That TDH doesn’t bash Faux News enough? It took me a few minutes in the google to find TDH calling Faux ridiculous, bad, and misinforming.

      Is it that TDH also bashes MSNBC? Have you not figured out that TDH is a jeremiah? His criticism is constant and mostly valid: stop demonizing the other side, stop reporting on trivia, give voice to important issues, get your facts straight. You may think he’s wrong to emphasize these things, but don’t say this isn’t constructive advice.

      TDH says that MSNBC should be a whole lot different from Faux News. Does that really sound like it comes from Faux News or Breitbart?

      If you think TDH has a point but shouldn’t blog about it because it “plays into the hand of conservatives”, then I’m afraid I find that pathetic. If you don’t think TDH has a valid point, what are you doing here?

      Delete
    14. Anonymous on August 23, 2018 at 6:03 PM,

      You’re allowed to have any opinions you wish. How could I stop you from having opinions? But if you express them here and they’re bullshit, then you’re going to have to put up with me calling them bullshit.

      I’m sorry, but you consistently misrepresent what TDH writes. The most charitable judgment is that you simply don’t understand what TDH writes. Other conclusions are harsher.

      In case it matters — and why should it? — I don’t mind if you disagree with TDH. I disagree with him sometimes as well. I object to your ridiculous mindreading and foolish conclusions.

      Your sense of truth? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

      Sorry, I had a flashback. I blame it on the drugs.

      Sarcasm off, here. I promise. If you quote TDH in context to make your points, I would appreciate what you contribute. Hell, I might even agree with you.

      Delete
    15. 6:01

      “Since he (Somerby) calls himself a liberal…”

      Ah, the fevered imagination of a troll. And I wonder, what are you doing to help “liberals” back to “political power?”

      “But it plays right into the hands of conservatives who say the same kinds of things.”

      When have you ever seen Somerby in the news? I have a new acronym: Why don’t you just TAFFAARD?

      Leroy

      Delete
    16. "His criticism is constant and mostly valid: stop demonizing the other side, ..."

      Who is "the other side"? Somerby is a media critic. Are there "sides" to the media? If so, perhaps he could provide a roster of each team, oops, side.. That would be a valuable exercise for Bob, and for his readers.

      Delete
    17. The other side comprises the political opponents of the "liberal" side. So according to TDH, it's bad to brand Trump supporters as deplorable or to take pleasure in the misfortune of Republicans like McDonnell, the ex-gov of Virginia.

      Delete
    18. deadrat,
      This is a media criticism site. If there are "sides" to the media, Somerby needs to spell them out.
      Which "side" is the New York Times on?
      Which media "side" supports the removal of money in our representative democracy?

      BTW, you forgot "bring a pillow to a gunfight' in TDH's constant and mostly valid criticisms.

      Delete
    19. Somerby doesn’t need to do anything. But since you’re already on a last-name basis with him, why not write him, give him his marching orders, and see how that works out.

      As a rough rule of thumb (as TDH is fond of saying), one side is the propaganda arm of the regressive political apparat, and the other side isn’t. TDH disregards the former (presumably as hopeless) and excoriates the latter (which includes the New York Times).

      I don’t know what it meansto remove money in a representative democracy.

      I know what it means to bring a knife to a gun fight, but I don’t know what it means to bring a pillow. In any case, I didn’t realize I was in any kind of fight. Would it help if said that the criticisms seem valid to me?

      Delete
    20. "Somerby doesn’t need to do anything. "

      So, his decision to repeat Right-wing nonsense is not caused by duress. Good to know.

      Delete
  3. "We support the sensible use of charters. We even support the sensible widespreaduse of charters, where such widespread use can be done in a sensible manner."

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2018/07/breaking-david-leonhardt-handles-gaps.html?m=1

    Should every school in a school district become a charter school?

    It has always seemed odd to me that the same public agency (whether state or otherwise) operates the traditional public schools and approves the creation of charters. They are setting up some weird competition between the two types of schools. Charters get public money, but don't have to play by the same set of rules. Does this not potentially disadvantage and ultimately undermine traditional schools? Why not simply put more effort into improving the existing traditional schools?

    This is at least one of the main points that Kaplan is making. She is concerned that charter schools represent a threat to what she calls the "social contract" that public schooling was supposed to enshrine.

    ReplyDelete
  4. As I've posted before, my older daughter found herself in an untenable position in 4th grade in her public school. Fortunately we could afford to send her to private school for 3 years. Having an alternative option made a huge difference in her life.

    I'd like to see needy parents have some alternative option for their children. I don't see how someone who cares about the poor could oppose this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Charter schools are not private schools. They replace public schools. If your daughter had a problem in a charter school, you would remove her to a private school in the same way.

      I would hope that before you moved your child, you visited the school, met with her teacher and administrators (if necessary) to discuss ways of solving the problem. Most schools have more than one classroom at each grade level and it might have been possible for your daughter to switch to the other teacher, so she wouldn't have to leave friends and familiar surroundings, which is often disruptive to young kids.

      I'm glad her new school worked out well, but you might have had a similar result for less money and not taught your daughter to run from problems instead of solving them. Further, there are parents who shop for new schools every time some minor problem arises and they don't seem to care about the effect on their kids.

      Kids who must change schools (such as military kids) often have social support because many other kids are moving too. Those who move a lot because of parental employment have no such assistance and they have to learn how to fit in, repeatedly, and how to live without friends until they make new ones, and how to do the things other kids take for granted, all while learning new material in their classes (which may have already started, leaving them disoriented until they catch up). Sometimes there are problems with records following them, so they are misplaced in the wrong class until someone notices the mistake. Sometimes they are bullied. Often just ignored. That can have impacts that last a lifetime.

      So parental choice sounds great until you put it into action. Then it isn't necessarily the best solution.

      Delete
    2. Thanks for you thoughtful response,
      AnonymousAugust 23, 2018 at 3:24 PM. Yes, my wife met with the Principal, but there was nothing to be done. The Principal couldn't or wouldn't move her to another class.

      Delete
    3. Sorry to hear your child was suspended like that. Do you think this experience might color your views on discipline of minority children?

      Delete
    4. @David
      One assumes that charter schools are created because it is felt that the traditional public schools are failing. So, instead of fixing a failing school, you simply create a new one, a charter. And yet, not every student will get to attend a charter as long as there are a limited number of them. How then are you helping the students (500,000 of them in the case of LA) who can't attend a charter school? If every school in a school district were a charter, would outcomes improve or would they be identical to the case where no charters existed?

      Delete
    5. @3:40

      Teachers in LA are striking for greater accountability for charter schools. If charters are created but don't have the same oversight as public schools, they may wind up being worse than public schools and outcomes will be worse for kids. Advocates for kids tend to want to strengthen accountability while those who are on the business side (e.g., conservatives and those who sell products to schools or manage them) want less accountability because it lowers their costs.

      Look at the outcomes in Detroit when Betsy DeVos was in charge there, if you want to see a case study involving charters with little accountability.

      Delete
    6. Good question, 3:40 PM. Here are some possible answers

      1. It's better to help some schoolchildren, even if you can't help all of them.

      2. A charter school may not be absolutely better than the public school, but it might be better for certain types of students.

      3. When a child is in a very bad school situation, having an alternative available could be vital for that child.

      4. Competition generally leads to improvement. When public schools have to compete with charter schools to attract students, that puts more pressure on the public school to keep improving.

      Delete
    7. AnonymousAugust 23, 2018 at 3:48 PM - Betsy DeVos was never in charge of schools in Detroit. What are you referring to?

      Delete
    8. AnonymousAugust 23, 2018 at 3:40 PM - my daughter was never suspended. But, she was sometimes in a class with a disruptive student. Her experience does color my view of the importance of dealing with disruptive students for the sake of their classmates.

      And there's a class aspect to this problem. If disruption in class prevented my daughter from learning something at school, my wife and I could teach her what she missed. Less-educated parents could not as easily do this.

      Delete
    9. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/12/08/a-sobering-look-at-what-betsy-devos-did-to-education-in-michigan-and-what-she-might-do-as-secretary-of-education/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7af8987007ed

      Delete
    10. David the treasonous bastard is roughly about 8o years old. His daughter in 4th grade would have been roughly 10 years old. Just assuming David was in his 30's when his better half gave birth to this child, let's guess that David was somewhere between 35 and 45 years old when he unhappily had to place her in private school. That would be about 35 to 45 years ago, roughly. And this is what he is basing his opinion on.

      Delete
    11. Well done, mm! I don't think the impact of class disruptions has changed in 40 years.

      Delete
    12. 4:09 PM - your link says
      A yearlong Free Press investigation found that 20 years after Michigan’s charter school experiment began, Detroit’s charter schools have shown themselves to be only incrementally stronger, on average, than traditional public schools.

      I wish the charter schools in Detroit were a lot better the public schools, but it's hardly an embarrassment for DeVos to champion schools that are even a little bit better.

      Delete
    13. "I wish the charter schools in Detroit were a lot better the public schools,..."

      Then holding charter schools as accountable as we do public schools would be a move in the correct direction. DeVos isn't championing that, because it gets in the way of the grift.

      Delete
  5. Dick's tricks:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfUAzRMs_k&t=40s

    ReplyDelete
  6. To the extent that the news media doesn't discuss achievement gaps, it is more or less fair for Somerby to criticize them for it. (Although, to be honest, I get lots of hits from newspapers around the country and many online publications that mention the gaps. Typically, a newspaper in, say, Atlanta will mention the gaps for the local area, and not Los Angeles or elsewhere. )

    Unfortunately, simply noting that there are gaps isn't actually a discussion. You have to look at possible causes, which involves a certain amount of guesswork, and possible solutions, which can be speculative or imbued with political motives. The effectiveness of any attempted solution cannot be measured quickly; it might be years before the effects are known, and even then there are so many factors involved that it is hard to control for just one.

    It could also be the case that simply mentioning that blacks and Hispanics do much worse than whites on tests is a recipe for unscrupulous actors to pounce with their pet notions of reform.

    The most irritating thing about Somerby's education posts is not his constant mention of achievement gaps and his berating of the media for not covering them; that is completely justifiable. The irritating thing is his seeking out of education reporting or op-eds that mention "integration" in order to attack the idea and the authors, and by extension anyone holding similar views. In so doing, he calls into question the motives of many people, he ignores all other education reporting, and he refuses to progress beyond his preferred framework of not actually discussing achievement gaps in any depth. If he finds the public discussion of them lacking, then what's to stop him from having that discussion himself?

    ReplyDelete
  7. "In this case, a Los Angeles story was underway—and, to borrow from Woody Allen, a Manhattan mystery broke out!"

    Why not refer to Steve Martin here, author of Los Angeles Story. He is someone who was never accused of molesting a child, is arguably a better comedian and filmmaker, and a novelist and painter too.

    We reveal who we are through such choices.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, you certainly have revealed who you are. You do know the circumstances of the allegation against Allen and the results of the investigations.

      Don't you?

      Delete
    2. Yes, and I've seen the film Manhattan too.

      Delete
    3. Allen has a film Manhattan Murder Mystery on top of Manhattan. See that one if you haven't.

      Delete
  8. Somerby is aware, isn't he, that Manhattan isn't part of the Greater Los Angeles area?

    ReplyDelete
  9. While it is true that Hispanics make up the majority of students in LAUSD, and thus by sheer number are in a fairly similar numerical position that whites occupied in Topeka in 1954, it is also true that the poverty level of Hispanics is far higher than whites. Thus, they arguably still occupy a second-class status in the US, and thus, as per Kaplan's lament, the separate Hispanic schools are inherently unequal and thus fail to live up to the ruling in the Brown decision.

    Now, in the case of LA, maybe integration is no longer structurally or logistically possible, but this still represents a failure of our society to live up to the promise and the challenge of the Brown decision, just as Kaplan laments.

    ReplyDelete
  10. IMHO, and I think Bob might agree, the justification for the Brown decision was invalid, although the decision itself was correct.

    For example, at Cupertino High School, "Minority enrollment is 82% of the student body (majority Asian)" The students there get an excellent education despite (or because of) the shortage of white classmates. In fact, some of the Asian students would prefer to have no whites at their school. I don't think that's going to happen, but if Cupertino HS became 100% Asian there's no doubt that they would continue to provide outstanding education.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I would add that when the Brown v. Board of Education decision was written, Dunbar High School, an all-black high school in Washington D.C. was doing an excellent job of educating its students.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DinC has problems with Brown vs. Board of Education.
      Did anyone get the license plate number on the feather which just knocked me over?

      Delete
    2. Exactly, Anon 12:50. As a conservative, I am not interested in virtue-signaling. I am interested in what actually works for black children. The wrong justification for Brown v Bd. of Ed. has done much harm to black children. It causes many people to focus on integration, when the most important thing to focus on is how to best educate black children.

      Delete
    3. Agreed that "virtue" is not what your posts are "signaling".
      Everyone sees the Right-wing dog-whistle is your "signal".

      Delete
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  13. MY RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN RESTORED
    Hey guys, my name is John Carlos, am from London United Kindom, Life has being very difficult for me Since when my Wife left me and my Kids, She left for no reason. I and my kids had being dwelling in pains for almost two years now, Recently, A Friend of mine Directed me to this great spell caster named Dr Noble, he is a Powerful Spell caster, he helped me and before 48 hours, My Wife that left me came back and started begging for forgivness. What more can i say, Dr Noble showed me How powerful Hes Love spell is. I will drop Hes Email address along with this testimony of mine in case anyone want to contact him, There is His Email: (templeofjoyandprosperity1@gmail.com)
    Whats_App number or Call +2348145643630
    http://ineedmyexbackdrnoble.blogspot.com/2018/08/urgent-love-spell-to-fix-your-broken.html

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hello,

    I'm Dr Ogudugu, a real and genuine spell caster/Spiritual healer with years of experience in spell casting and an expert in all spells, i specialize exclusively in LOVE SPELL/GET REUNITE WITH EX LOVER, MONEY SPELL, POWERFUL MAGIC RING, ANY COURT CASES, FRUIT OF THE WOMB, HIV CURE, CURE FOR CANCER, HERPES, DIABETE, HERPERTITIS B, PARKINSON’S HERBAL CURE, BECOMING A MERMAID, BECOMING A VAMPIRE, SAVE CHILD BIRTH. They are all %100 Guaranteed QUICK Results, it most work. If you have any problem and you need a real and genuine spell caster to solve your problems, contact me now through my personal Email Address with problem case...Note-you can also Text/Call on WhatsApp.

    Contact me -
    Email: greatogudugu@gmail.com
    WhatsApp No: +27663492930

    ReplyDelete
  15. Greatest thanks to Dr Oyagu for his herbal drugs that he prepared for me and when i start using it in just 2weeks i was completely cured and that ended my HERPES SIMPLEX 1&2 DISEASE i am so happy and grateful to Dr Oyagu . after reading about him on a testimony of Jason Cash on a blogger. i knew suddenly Dr Oyagu was the right Doctor to cure my HERPES SIMPLEX 1&2 DISEASE. i discuss with Dr Oyagu and he prepared a herbal medicine for me and when it got sent to me in south korean . i used the herbal medicine and 2weeks and i went to check up again. after 15years of suffering from HERPES SIMPLEX 1&2 at last i am smiling once again. Dr Oyagu also has remedy to others disease like COLD SORES,HIV/AIDS,DIABETES.CANCER,HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND MANY MORE. I oblige everyone to contact this powerful herbalist Dr Oyagu and be free from your suffering. contact his WhatsApp line:+2348101755322 or his Email:Oyaguspellcaster@gmail.com

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  16. I'm 61 years old, I contracted hpv in 2011' I has be taking lot treatment for it and embarrassed some months ago the wart stated coming out seriously, I used lot recommendation because there was lot warts around my anus and was so . but today I'm totally happy I got the virus eliminated by using natural treatment from Dr Onokun herbal center after his treatment I got cured. all the warts went away' seriously believed Dr Onokun he have the cure for human papillomavirus because he has eliminated hpv been in my body since 2011, Dr Onokun make it possible for me. Here is Dr Onokun email:  dronokunherbalcure@gmail.com 

    ReplyDelete
  17. Thank you Thank You Very much Doctor Otonokpo for making my ex boyfriend come back to me. I am Cordelia Sandra from Brazil and i am putting this testimony here too because i want to share my testimony of how i was helped by Doctor Otonokpo within 48 hours of contacting him. Yes, it was last week my ex boyfriend returned to me after i contacted Doctor Otonokpo. My boyfriend was always going back to meet his ex girlfriend because he never really left her. Her name was Sophie. I didn't know how it happened one day after breakfast that i saw him looking at his ex girlfriend's picture on Facebook and I flared at him that he doesn't care about him and he was with me and still thinking about his ex although we have been dating for 6 months. He stormed at me and left the house and never returned. I was heartbroken and wanted him to come back. I was in a nightclub with friend one evening that I saw him with Sophie there, I was humiliated that night and I regretted going there only to see him there. I went online after some days and found Doctor Otonokpo and read about him and I contacted him to help me get him back. I must say that within 48 hours, my boyfriend came back to me and pleaded for leaving me. Is this how spell works so fast? Please, if you want help, contact Doctor Otonokpo too to help you at otonokpotemple@gmail.com
    Call/WhatsApp +2348114129781

    ReplyDelete