FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2023
Ruth Marcus listens well: We're not sure we've ever read a more worthwhile opinion column.
We're speaking of the latest column by Ruth Marcus for the Washington Post. The column hasn't appeared in print editions yet. Online, the headline says this:
A troubling split at my Thanksgiving table—and the nation’s
To what "troubling split" does Marcus refer? She refers to differences within her own Jewish family about what we have come to call the Israel-Hamas war.
Marcus herself, age 65, is inclined to tilt one way. Her daughters are more "pro-Palestinian." As Marcus notes, this is indeed a type of generational split which may be profoundly affecting our national politics.
That said, her column starts like this:
MARCUS (11/23/23): Our Thanksgiving table has never been a political battleground—not until this year...
This year is different. We are a Jewish family, so you might think the horror of the Hamas attack would bring us together. Anything but. Instead, in the interests of family harmony, the Thanksgiving table has been preemptively declared an Israel-free zone. Pass the corn pudding and drop the cease-fire talk. Tell Grandma not to discuss settlements.
I suspect we are not alone. The Oct. 7 attack exposed many painful realities, including the prevalence of antisemitism in our own country, especially on college campuses. A related one is the generational divide—broadly, for sure, but also within the American Jewish community—over support for Israel and the importance of Israel as a Jewish homeland.
That "generational divide" has been widely polled and widely reported, but Marcus' column brings it all back home.
Marcus herself grew up with one worldview, her daughters perhaps with another. Concerning that generational divide, Marcys offers this:
MARCUS: Really, how could it be otherwise? I was born in 1958, just 10 years after the establishment of Israel. The nation’s existence was new and tenuous; it was embattled, encircled by enemies committed to its destruction. It needed our support—our dimes diligently tucked into the cards we collected to plant trees in its fledgling forests.
My childhood memories are of the Six-Day War and the accompanying joy over access to the Western Wall; of the shock of the Yom Kippur War. I was walking back to synagogue to join my father for evening services that day when a neighbor stopped to ask: Had I heard the terrible news?
[...]
My children grew up in a different environment—more honest about the contours of the conflict, more complex in the nature of the political discussion, and more fraught. They have scarcely known an Israel without Netanyahu, which is to say an Israel whose aggressive settlement policy that has made a two-state solution increasingly unattainable, and an Israel that fails to treat Palestinians with fairness and dignity.
Growing up, Marcus was swimming in one point of view. Her daughters have grown up in a different time, involving some different realities.
None of this can direct us to the perfectly correct view about the current situation. There is no such perfect view or understanding—not about this complex situation, not about anything else.
That said, what makes this column so superb starts with the paragraph we've omitted. Here's the fuller statement by Marcus:
MARCUS: My childhood memories are of the Six-Day War and the accompanying joy over access to the Western Wall; of the shock of the Yom Kippur War. I was walking back to synagogue to join my father for evening services that day when a neighbor stopped to ask: Had I heard the terrible news?
And, I am obliged to confess, the narrative of Israel’s founding that Jewish children of my generation were offered in Hebrew school and on trips to Israel was deeply misleading at best, tinged with anti-Palestinian bias at worst. This account utterly failed to acknowledge the expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in 1948 or consider Palestinians’ legitimate claims to a homeland. The tenor of our rabbi’s sermons, the discussions in my childhood home, were that Israel could do no wrong.
My children grew up in a different environment—more honest about the contours of the conflict, more complex in the nature of the political discussion, and more fraught. They have scarcely known an Israel without Netanyahu, which is to say an Israel whose aggressive settlement policy that has made a two-state solution increasingly unattainable, and an Israel that fails to treat Palestinians with fairness and dignity.
It is, in short, an Israel that has made itself hard to love...
Has Israel "made itself hard to love?" That's a matter of opinion.
The fact that Marcus makes that claim doesn't mean that the claim is "true." Nor does it mean that Marcus has completely adopted her children's view of these matters. That passage continues as shown:
MARCUS: It is, in short, an Israel that has made itself hard to love. My love for Israel is strong enough to survive my exasperation with the policies of its current government. It might be unrealistic to expect the same of my daughters...
The rumination continues from there, in deeply instructive detail.
Have we ever read a more worthwhile, or more instructive, opinion column? We can't think of when we did.
Marcus has come to broaden her views concerning these matters, but she still stands apart from her daughters. And again—nothing Marcus says requires you, or anyone else, to share any of the views which get described in this column.
You don't have to agree with Marcus' views, or with those of her daughters. Concerning that, we'll offer these words of high praise:
Marcus seems to have let her children attempt to teach her well. Raised within one standard outlook, she has actually come to adjust her views, based in part on her daughters' attempts to "help her with their youth."
She says there is still a divide. She describes that divide as follows:
MARCUS: [W]e confront the events of Oct. 7 and its terrible aftermath, including the bloodshed in Gaza, from different baselines, clashing perspectives that have generated painful conversations, and tears on both sides.
I am disappointed that, as much as they recognize the horrors of the Holocaust and the “never again” imperative, they do not link that tragedy to the accompanying imperative of Israel as a Jewish homeland. I blame myself for having failed to instill that lesson, and for not having done a better job at convincing them of the interconnectedness of Judaism and Zionism. I worry that they underestimate the persistence of antisemitism and overestimate the willingness of Israel’s neighbors to tolerate a Jewish state.
In turn, they are disappointed at what they see as my reflexive tribalism and my deficit of empathy for the suffering of innocent Palestinians. For them, a deeply felt Jewish identity does not inexorably demand commitment to Israel; the two can be disaggregated.
Judaism teaches the duty to care for the stranger, my daughter reminded me, when I said our charitable contributions would go to ease suffering in Israel, not Gaza. Hadn’t I taught her better than that? My pride in having helped raise a caring person collides with my worry that she does not fully grasp the evils of the world in which we live.
There are "tears on both sides," Marcus reports. Painful though those tears seem to be, they don't seem to be "tears of rage," to quote the title of one of the most painfully insightful of all Dylan songs.
In yesterday's report, we posted lyrics from an iconic song we've often thought of lately. Are younger people sometimes aware of certain things their elders may not understand?
Younger people are often wrong. They often say the darndest things—but that's true of old fogies too.
But even as they may (or may not) overstate, younger people can sometimes help their elders see the world through a different and wider lens. We'll quote those lyrics once again:
And you of tender years
Can't know the fears
Your elders grew by.
And so please help them with your youth
They seek the truth
Before they can die.
Teach your parents well, the song goes on to say. Of course, for any such teaching to occur, those elders must be willing to listen.
What is the truth about this war? As always, there is no ultimate answer. There can only be the attempt to listen—to be respectful and fair.
During the song from which we're quoting, Voice Two asks these questions during the second verse:
Can you see? Will you care? Can you see we must be free to make a world we can live in?
We regard this as a beautiful column. There are still tears on both sides but, in our view, the columnist Marcus has answered those questions quite well.
Still coming: As heard on blue cable TV
First verse, Tears of Rage: Here's the first verse of Tears of Rage:
We carried you in our arms
On Independence Day
And now you throw us all aside
And put us all away
What dear daughter ’neath the sun
Could treat a father so
To wait upon him hand and foot
Yet always tell him,“No?”
The song describes a more painful type of family divide. For The Band's recording, click here.
Nice post.
ReplyDeleteFWIW at my Jewish family Thanksgiving there was barely a word about Israel. The host was the only other conservative presentAt one point, he and I agreed that, regardless of what Israel does, after a few years, the Palestinians will again attack Israel. We lamented that we could see no way to end the ongoing Palestinian attacks.
ReplyDeleteBTW I grew up with Israel. When Israel was founded we Jews imagined that Israel was unmixed advantage for all Jews. We believed that having a Jewish homeland would reduce antisemitism everywhere. Who knew that, for many people, Israel would become an excuse for more antisemitism?
ReplyDeleteIf you have never read a more worthwhile opinion column than something you found in WaPo, then you're an extremely unfortunate person, Bob.
It's a sad, very sad admission on your part.
Why?
DeletePoor Hector
DeleteSomerby has a fundamental misunderstanding of human behavior; the column he references suggests that an older generation was indoctrinated with nonsense that they are stuck with, while a younger generation was less indoctrinated and are therefore freer thinkers.
DeleteThe column is much more nuanced than that, of course. It's an older person who was indoctrinated but has since recognized the flaws in that indoctrination and points out many of those flaws in the column. At the same time, she doesn't dismiss it entirely, because there is a some of truth and wisdom in it, and she and worries that the younger generation who didn't live through some of the relevant history "underestimate the persistence of antisemitism and overestimate the willingness of Israel’s neighbors to tolerate a Jewish state."
DeleteThe column is not “nuanced”, you just fell for Marcus’ con.
Delete‘Living through history’ is a euphemism for experiencing trauma, it does not impart insight, it shades it.
Yeah, you're just so much smarter than the rest of us. We're all just marks, except you. Now, back on earth, the column is as nuanced as the limited format allows. She presents both sides and points out some of the potential flaws in each.
DeleteIf you found the column “nuanced”, which I highly doubt, then you got suckered. It was pretty straightforward, not requiring excess intelligence.
DeleteThe claim that there is significant variability in intelligence among normal humans is dubious, but if Charles Murray is your thing, more power to you. There’s one of you born every minute.
It’s ignorant to think that “smart” people can avoid being suckered.
Marcus is an old school neoliberal right winger that tends to push the establishment norms preferred by her corporate paymasters, she often relies on putting her finger in the wind to see which way it is blowing, but in this case norms are shifting, so she presents a con, a way to muddy the waters. It’s more likely that Marcus’ con suits you just fine, so you’re happy to falsely promote it as “nuanced”, instead of accurately pointing to its lack of clarity.
significant variation among normal humans?
DeleteThe terms "significant variation" and "normal" are contradictory.
Who said nuance requires "excess intelligence"? And which is it, "straightforward" or exhibiting "lack of clarity."
DeleteMutually exclusive is the hill you are dying on, a subset of excessive literalism. Your lack of reading comprehension is not a credible counterpoint. I can’t respond if your questions are incoherent, such as they, in fact, are.
DeleteHere is ultimately what the garbage Marcus puts out leads to, a shooting in Vermont:
https://youtu.be/G3lkD9jbYR0?si=t-SLt59kmYxcKAaE
Apologies for the faux indignant righteousness this will trigger. If we follow the logic of defending Israel’s outsized violent vengeance, one would have to defend this too.
i think you just type some words you think make you sound smart. they don't
DeleteSomerby cannot even say the words pro-Israel. He says”tilts ine way” instead so he won’t put any notions in anyone’s head. Because that’s how propaganda works.
ReplyDeleteIsrael was not wrong to defend itself, not then and not now.
ReplyDeleteSomerby’s deceptive presentation of Marcus’s essay is not clever—it is dishonest and manipulative.
None of my women have tears in their eyes.
DeleteSo propaganda works by NOT putting ideas in people’s heads. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteIt is the principle of never saying an opposing candidate’s name. To read Somerby you’d never know anyone supports Israel, like when quoted the pro-Palestinian side but not the pro-Israel statement in that PBS interview last week. Today he plays similar, gratuitous games with what Marcus said. Not everyone can get past the paywall to check on Somerby.
DeleteDoggy, I am with you on this one.But it is striking that Bob can endure this piece even when Marcus does not explain in the end how it’s really all the fault of blue tribe MSNBC watchers.
DeleteDogface, I will say this slowly so you can understand it.
DeleteYou do not tell people about things you do not want them to know about. And yes, that selective presentation is propagandizing, not informing.
I’ll say this even more slowly: Do you really think the notion that Marcus is pro-Israel was somehow hidden from a normally-intelligent reader?
DeleteYou are led to believe (by the song) that Marcus will be pro-Israel whereas her kids will be pro-Palestinian. That is the set up. Then Somerby puts back in the paragraphs where you find out that despite being pro-Israel in her youth, Marcus has come to be more pro-Palestinian. That is the twist. Somerby emphasizes that shift by concealing it (to raise a contrary expectation) and then revealing it, with the idea that if older pro-Israel folks just listen to their kids, they too will see that the Palestinians have a point. This is deceptive and manipulative, largely because Marcus herself did not present her views that way, and because someone who believes what you do and then switches views, is more persuasive than someone who believes differently from the get-go.
DeleteAnd yes, Marcus's entire essay was hidden from those who do not pay to go behind the newspaper paywall, as many of us do not. Extra care to be accurate should be taken by someone who is telling others about something they cannot themselves go check.
Dogface, you are an ignorant asshole. This manipulation by Somerby that you pretend you cannot see, if fully obvious to those who are not Somerby fanboys. My complaint is that it is also dishonest and propagandistic, which is how Somerby rolls since 2015.
Oh, I forgot: You’re a promoter of the crackpot conspiracy theory that Putin or some conservative billionaire pays Somerby to lure gullible liberals into voting for conservatives.
DeleteIt seems to be working on you.
DeleteYet no one has been persuaded. Something the fanboys should take note of.
DeleteSimilarly, no one has been persuaded by you. Something you should take note of.
DeleteI don’t attempt persuasion, so your claim is false and your advise is empty and meaningless.
DeleteHaving said that, most here are in agreement with me, it’s only the few fanboys that cling to their hero that are in conflict with me.
"I don’t attempt persuasion, so your claim is false" Even if it were the case that you're not attempting to persuade (doubtful), it wouldn't follow that my claim is false.
Delete"most here are in agreement with me." Good one. Most on here recognize you as an axe-grinding troll.
Your claim may not be literally false - or it may be, but your implication is false. Either way, there’s no evidence to support your claim. It’s just triggered bluster.
DeleteMost comments express notions that are aligned with what my comments express.
Majority does not necessarily make right, though. Present a coherent claim or point in good faith and it will be entertained; until then, keep on trolling.
ah ok, not literally false. just metaphorically? if most comments on here align with yours, it's probably because most of them are yours.
DeleteAt Quora you can read opinions of people living in Israel and Gaza. They are nothing like what Marcus or Somerby say here.
ReplyDeleteThe Brookings institute has a nice piece written in 2015 about the activities of the West Bank settlers entitled "Settler Terrorism: An American Problem". It is easily acessed. Torching homes, burning children to death, and shooting farmers by far right West Bank settlers is not something the armchair Israeli defenders on this site like to think about, even though the IDF was honest enough to recently call this activity, ongoing and escalating for years before 10/7, terrorist activity. The one thing settler/colonists have in common throughout history is the expulsion of the native population. Nothing new here. Labeling this territory " the homeland" of "the chosen people" apparently gives some sort of justification. The outrageous dehumanization of adversaries is hardly the exclusive activity of Arabs. Incidentally, it takes a lot of chutzpah to label your kin "the chosen people"- gives a lot of latitude to what you do to the unchosen. They all need to sit down and read a little Joseph Campbell, rather than act out in horrific fashion, based upon the fairy tales they choose to live by. Pathetic all around, and the Israelis, who self - labeled as colonists as far back as the late nineteenth century have their share of blood on their hands.
DeleteDIC, in an earlier post, took issue with the term apartheid as applied to the state of Israel. He said it is pejorative. Of course it is. But is it accurate? I am disinclined to take the word of a 70+ year old Californian, who despite vociferous defense of all that is Israeli, has never stated to have visited there. I'd rather go with someone who has, and knows a little bit about that term. After visiting Israel, the late Archbishop Desmond Tutu publicly declared it to be an apartheid state. Got that right.
First paragraph spelling "...accessed...".
DeleteAnother one-sided account of terrorism that entirely neglects the Palestinian provocation, which I posted last week, including a rundown of all of the Palestinian acts of terror in the West Bank, none of them reported here. Yes, Israelis fight back, but they are not the instigators of this violence which has occurred since the first Jewish people arrived in the Palestine Mandate, fully authorized to be there.
DeleteYes, there is blood enough to go around, but there are also repeated attempts at peace that have all been stymied by the Palestinians who do not want to live peacefully with Jews but want to wipe them off the face of the earth, by their own admission.
I am not going to argue over the word apartheid as long as the administration of Gaza has been nothing but attacks by Palestinians (both their Hamas military and rock-throwing dissidents). As described by people who live there, it is an ongoing cycle of attacks by Palestinians, crack-downs by Israel, increased security procedures and lockdowns for the residents, more attacks by Palestinians, more reprisals and security, and no loosening unless the attacks slow or stop. But the Palestinians always start up again and so there is relentless rocket attacks into Israel, teens being shot by Israeli security when they attack them, and more difficult living conditions for residents. The Palestinians know how to stop this because Israel loosens its precautions when the rockets stop, but that is always temporary because the extremists in Gaza do not really want peace, no matter how hard it is on the Palestinians who live there. This attack by Hamas was particularly brutal, but it is by no means the first attack. Hamas has not let up during the whole time Israel has retaliated. Because peace is not their goal.
Blaming Israel during this round of fighting is wrong. It is unjust and it is in no way factually true as presented in the US. People who live in Israel know better, but the gullible kids and progressives who gobble up these pro-Palestinian lies are not helping anything at all.
It is irrelevant what Tutu thought after a brief visit to Israel. David, if he has relatives in Israel, knows more about the situation than you do. Tutu is willing to use the Israel conflict to advance his own agenda. That doesn't make him any kind of expert on what is happening there.
Palestinians were unjustified in their violence back in the 1920s, continuing in 1948 and thereafter. Jews had the right to emigrate to the Mandate. This is as if Americans were to engage in extreme violence against Mexican or Latin American immigrants in the US, who now make up a large population throughout the southwestern states. Would our extremist militias be justified in trying to drive them out of our country (or to exterminate them from the planet as Islam calls for)? Simply because they decided that they have been dispossessed by Mexican Americans who are living on desirable land, many of whom have been living there since the 1800s?
These land claims are specious and do not justify upending peace negotiation after negotiation, to the point that Palestinians have several times rejected the two-state solution they are now saying they want. I fully expect that this current cease fire will be violated by Palestinians, because that is what has happened repeatedly before. I note the disproportionate release of hostages (50 israelis but 150 Palestinians). This is not good faith bargaining, but the pressure on the US and Israel to regain hostages is what Hamas has counted on. Yes, Netanyahu is an extremist jerk, but many Israelis are also tired of this cycle of violence and sympathize with his desire to get tough instead of tolerated more Gazan violence.
Somerby's mawkish misuse of a song taken out of context, suggesting that kids on college campuses know more than people who grew up with this ongoing crises, strikes me as offensive and very wrong.
1) 2022: "It is with great sadness...I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime." Michel Ben-Yair, former Attorney General of Israel.
Delete2023 "There is an apartheid state here [in which] two people are judged under two legal systems." Valid Pardo, former head of Mossad.
I assume that neither of these two are related to DIC.
You completely discredit yourself by claiming without any support that Desmond Tutu had an agenda, while DIC's relatives, whose agendas are completely unknown to you, are to be relied upon. That is comical.
2) Your Mexican border analogy conveniently neglects that the 1.5 million Arabs not located in border communities are legally discriminated against by Israeli law.
3) Likewise you conveniently ignore the longstanding unprovoked violence by far right wing settlers against Arab West Bank citizens that is well documented and, as stated, declared terrorist, by the IDF. You have no answer for that, perhaps because your media outlets ignore it. Rest assured that Palestinian farmers getting shot in the back by Israeli settlers gets significant airplay in the Arab press.
4) The acquisition of Palestinian and Egyptian land during the 1967 war by Israel was against international law. Israel kept that land. What "specious" land claims are you talking about? In 1948 when the UN partitioned Palestine in such a manner that Jewish colonists received roughly twice as much land per capita than Palestinian natives, is that where you object to "specious" land claims by the Palestinians?
5) Your other commentary suggests that those of us who raise these issues conveniently neglect the provocation by the Palestinians. This is false. Joining the cheering section of the "Israel can do no wrong" club serves no purpose as there are so many members that find themselves redundantly agreeing with each other here. Generally, they conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism, a mistake that is more easily made insofar as Netanyahu has declared Israel a "religious state", Specifically subserving Judaism. All the more reason to engage in apartheid. There are historians and scholars as well as many citizens in the Israeli community whose understanding of this conflict is far more balanced than yours are, but you will fastidiously avoid their commentaries as they do not serve your one-sided agenda.But go ahead and ramble on about how everything that happens to the Palestinians is their fault, and only occurs by Israeli reaction to their violence.
Of course Tutu had an agenda, to which he devoted his entire life.
DeleteWhy is it so hard for you to acknowledge that the Palestinians need to stop attacking Israel?
Religious Right-wingers; you can't live with them.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete8:42 You would do well to read the commentary that I was responding to before declaring that Desmond Tutu of course had an agenda. In context your statement is superfluous. Likewise, why do you assume that I have difficulty condemning terrorism? I've called 10/7 barbaric etc. previously. Do you want me to put up a lawn sign?
DeleteI want you to cut Israel slack in the face of outrageous barbaric violence against innocent Israelis (and apprently some Thais).
DeletePalestinian children help the Palestinian economy too. Would it be OK to say they should be killed because of that?
DeleteYou cannot claim to be fighting for a principled cause while committing indiscriminate mayhem against uninvolved bystanders, as HAMAS did. None of the Israelis killed by Hamas did anything personally to harm any of the Palestinians who participated in that attack. Killing innocents for what amounts to symbolic reasons should be unacceptable to any good decent person. That's why I do not consider the Palestinians to have any moral ground to do what they did.
Of course Israel is retaliating. It is the only thing that gets murderous Palestinians to stop their violence. Israel has learned how much force it takes to stop Palestinians from committing terrorist acts. If that loses the approval of credulous children in the US, so be it. Security of the Israeli people comes first.
Israelis are settler-colonialists. It's a dangerous lifestyle, being a settler-colonialist. Indigenous people have serious objections to settler-colonialism. In the US of A, back in the day, you could be scalped.
DeleteWhy are there so many pro-Palestinian trolls here recently? Why are they tirelessly working to portray terrorists as victims? Why do they hate Jews so much?
DeleteBecause the Jews are very successful and peaceful, according to David.
DeleteBut we do love you, Corby, because you're neither.
2:37 You are easily confused so perhaps simmer down. Hamas = Palestinians seems to be a popular schtick in these parts. I do not confuse the Israeli people with the aggressive Right wing settlers that have been engaging in terrorist activity against West Bank inhabitants for years, with random killing and thedriving farmers from their land. If you are having trouble with the word terrorist, you can take that up with the IDF. The oppressed Palestinians do not equate with Hamas, by the same token. Wiping Hamas from the face of the earth is fine by me: would give it a standing ovation. You have a particular confusion regarding criticizing the activities of the Israeli government and antisemitism. I take it that you would declare the adult children of Ruth Marcus self hating Jews or some such nonsensical thing, for understanding the world in its complexity far better than your black/white world view allows. The Israeli government is complicit here, advocating for Hamas, of all people, publicly, a few short years ago. Think about that.They are an occupying force over Palestinians and have laws that constitute apartheid. So get over yourself and understand that there is not enough empathy to go around here. Do some reading outside your suffocating silo.
DeletePalestinians have engaged in terror for years yet you don’t seem to notice. Palestinians are antisemites because their reason for opposing Israel is that it is Jewish.
DeleteFor decades academics (and others) in Israel have criticized the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the treatment of Arabs within Israel. Why don't you ask such people, Israeli citizens, why they don't seem to notice Palestinian aggression? What a bizarre accusation. The reason Ruth Marcus's Jewish children have a different take on this conflict than she does is because the Israel they have known all their adult lives is a substantially different one than she did, whether or not hers or their perceptions is entirely accurate, which is highly unlikely. So if you think that I should be further counseled that when Obama called the Palestinian lives (under Israeli occupation) miserable that he was projecting antisemitism, as does DIC, you are sadly mistaken. You appear to be hell bent on declaring this tragedy - encompassing far more than 10/7- the sole responsibility of Palestinians, a mindset that is simple minded and anhistoric
DeleteSomething is wrong when there is a rush to support Palestinians with no expression of synpathy for those killed and taken hostage on 10/7. That tells me this is a massive propaganda campaign by people with big bucks and no desire to understand American or Israeli interests. It doesn’t surprise me to find Somerby in the middle, doing his slimy bit.
DeleteAnyone who lives in Israel has experienced Palestinian violence, and no, they do not excuse it. Obama is trying to bothsides this issue. It isn’t his best moment. This trgedy would not be happening without the Hamas attack, but that is only the most recent Palestinian atrocity.
DeleteIsrael suffers from all that you would expect from a country that identifies itself as a religious entity. The homeland of the chosen people, as it were. As such, it engages in apartheid and and it’s laws penalize Arab citizens. If the US had separate laws for Christians and Jews and allowed small towns to exclude individuals from residency by vote of committee, based on their “cultural identity”, it would be rightly identified as having codified racism, and the commenters here that defend all that is Israel would be in apoplexy, particularly if they were Jewish US citizens.
DeleteThe atrocities committed by Hamas are not to be assigned to the teenagers and children who represent a large percentage of Palestinians. Their lives are tragic, however much you would like to dehumanize and/or ignore them, or worse, assign them guilt. Their world is under the siege of a more powerful state that regulates all aspects of their commerce and personal freedom. That is daily life for them. Those who empathize with both parties here are misled by propaganda in your world, a place where humanity is carefully doled out based upon criteria in accordance with your prejudices.
We can all be horrified by whatever misshapen version of the Muslim faith there is that allows people to act like rabid animals, and by the same token should be thoroughly unimpressed with those whose fantasy deity anoints them as chosen, thereby making more palatable their appropriation of other people’s land, contrary to international law. Both groups are wrong but both also have legitimate grievances. That does not make their grievances equal in weight by any means, but both carry some weight, contrary to your simple minded assertion that the Israelis are the only victims here.
Jews did not misappropriate anyone’s land, much less in violation of law. You are believing propaganda.
DeleteMost countries do not have a state religion.
DeleteThe 1967 acquisition of Palestinian and Egyptian land by war was against international law. It is hard to engage in discussion with commenters that are so stridently uneducated. Read up on this stuff.
DeleteIsrael has been declared by Netanyahu as a religious (Jewish) state. The homeland, so to speak, is not even the birthplace of Judaism. And no, other countries are not declared religious states.
DeleteState religions are bad.
DeleteA few days ago, I listed the many countries that have state religions. That list includes nearly all of the Muslim nations. It includes most of the scandinavian countries (Lutheran) and many of the Central and Latin American nations (Catholicism). It includes Great Britain (Anglican). Many Asian countries are Buddhist. This idea that Israel is doing something wrong by having a state religion is silly given that so many other countries also have a state religion.
DeleteThis strikes me as an attack on Judaism, when the Palestinians are just as religious and just as likely to have a state religion -- just a different one.
2:39 your claim is false, most of those countries you list do not have state religions, in fact only a few countries in the world do not permit religious freedom, dwindling as societies progress.
DeleteAn attack on Israel being a theocratic ethnostate is not an attack on Judaism, this is trivial.
Palestinians can no more justify a theocracy than any other people.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same singular god; it is storytelling at it’s most destructive impact.
Religiosity is on the decline because it produces unstable, miserable societies.
State religions are bad.
Deletehttps://www.worlddata.info/religions/state-religions.php
DeleteDavid, do you now understand that erecting a Jewish state in Palestine was a mistake?
ReplyDeleteAre we told how old her daughters are? I’ll bet they are not children. That leaves me wondering why Somerby offers high praise for “letting” one’s adult children speak? Why wouldn’t they speak on many topics?
ReplyDeleteSomerby says Marcus has learned from them, presumably to be more pro-Palestinian. That is an implied endorsement of pro-Palestinian views, since you don’t call it learning when someone acquires mistaken views. Why is Somerby so coy about expressing his own obvious support for Palestinians? Does he think it is more persuasive to spit on those who support Israel? That is all he has been doing here since 10/7.
David in Cal tells us what he believes. Somerby shits on Dershowitz and Ungar-Sargon and pretends this is about student passion while hinting that those supporting Palestine may be right or wrong, but hey, look at us all speaking stuff, including noble Marcus who doesn’t muzzle her adult children!
Are you deliberately misinterpreting because you're grinding your Somerby-hating axe, or are you just not very bright?
DeleteCalling people stupid is not an argument.
Deleteyeah, i suppose you're right. idiot
DeleteIt is a mistake for Palestinians to keep warring against Israel. They always lose because God wants them to stop.
ReplyDelete"No Arab country took in the Palestinians."
ReplyDeleteWtf, David? You ethnically cleanse indigenous people, and then blame others for not "taking" them? Which is itself an obvious lie, since just in Jordan there are well over 2 million Palestinian refugees.
Do you know what "hutzpah" means, David?
All of us of a certain age grew up with Israel. We donated money to plant trees there and aspired to live on a kibbutz. We also read about Anne Frank and understood what happened to her, unlike Somerby. Because we had relatives who were survivors, or listened closely to the visitors to our classrooms.
ReplyDeleteIf anything, those supporting Palestine do not have a personal horror of the brutality aimed at Jewish people, represented today by Hamas. 10/7 was not a demonstration but a sample of the genocide Islamic extremists working from Gaza wish to inflict on all Jewish people. Then they have the nerve to attribute their own genocidal motives to Israelis who are just seeking peace and security.
Religious extremists in Gaza believe dead pAlestinians are martyrs to their cause. They don’t care how many die. Meanwhile they continue to send rockets into Israel while complaining about reprisals. Someone who supports that is being played for a fool.
Israelis can do no wrong. Just ask the Palestinians killed and driven from their homes by far right wing West Bank Israeli settlers. This humanitarian disaster is two sided: the sporadic and recently horrific terrorist activity that cannot be justified, by Hamas, and the daily subjugation of Arabs by blockade and occupation committed by the state of Israel, also (and I do not use the word “equally”) morally wrong. To acknowledge the pain of only one side is ignorant or dishonest. Empathy does not have limits for a normal human being. The “all bad vs all good” motif of commenters here is hopefully due to ignorance rather than racism, and I say this as no fan myself of the Muslim religion with all of its negatives.
DeleteThe last thing that has been happening is anyone ignoring Palestinian pain. They have been so vocal in the US that their side is the only one you hear, nothing about what it is like for Israelis to live in fear of random Palestinian terrorism, including in the West Bank.
DeleteAs I pointed out weeks ago, this is not a contest to determine whose pain matters most. Hamas is unwilling to stop attacking Israel. Israel lets up on its sanctions whenever Hamas stops sending rockets into Israel. But then they start up again. Only one side has the power to stop the violence, and that is the Palestinians.
It’s time for Jewish Israelis to emigrate.
DeleteIt's time for you to go troll somewhere else.
DeleteIf Syria, Jordan, Egypt had taken in Palestinians they wouldn’t be still living in Gaza. Can you explain why those in Jordan are in camps instead of being assimilated?
ReplyDeleteWhy shouldn't people live in Gaza?
ReplyDeleteThese are propaganda terms: ethnic cleansing, indigenous people. There is no ethnic difference between Palestinians and other Arabs, nor between sephardic Jews and Arabs. This is sophistry.
ReplyDelete@ 4:14 PM
ReplyDeleteCan you explain why I would want to explain why your head is full of bullshit?
People who want to live in Gaza should stop throwing stones at Israelis and stop firing rockets from Gaza into Israel. I wonder if those who are pro-Palestinian have any idea what Palestinians do to provoke Israel.
ReplyDelete@4:20. Because Somerby wants you to learn that other people’s views are not necessarily bullshit. You sound like someone who repeats propaganda but cannot answer simple and obvious questions. Fucking troll.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you move to Gaza, Corby. So you can lecture people there face-to-face.
ReplyDelete@4:23 PM
ReplyDeleteYou can have your own views, but not your own facts.
There is a problem when you confuse your opinions with objectively verifiable facts.
ReplyDeleteI have my own facts. I am Corby.
ReplyDeleteSomerby has no idea what Tears of Rage meant to the author of that song. Clearly it means something to him, because he seems to use it as shorthand to avoid communicating with his readers.
ReplyDeleteSomerby has no daughter (or son) and he has no idea what a parent having difficulty with a child might feel. It is offensive that Somerby hauls these lyrics out to support some point of his own, that he refuses to clearly articulate. Meanwhile, he doesn't even name the author of the song or the artist performing the work at his link. Just as he gave no credit to Crosby Stills Nash and Young yesterday, pretending his two Al Gore ladies invented the song, not just the hidden harmonies they added to the lyric themselves to obscure whatever CSNY intended.
Perhaps Somerby borrowed these songs because he cannot write his own. If so, he should show more respect to those whose invention he so casually steals.
Why don't you just come out and say he's communicating in bad faith, and get it over with?
DeleteThis is about intellectual property, not just bad faith.
DeleteYou sure it's not about your obsession with attacking Somerby?
DeleteI have no problem with Bob quoting songs that resonate with him, but he tends to do the same ones and quotes them in dubious context.
DeleteSo let’s just note “Tears of Rage” is a Bob Dylan lyric that Richard Manuel put the music to, and that “Teach Your Children” is by Graham Nash. Bob feels the need to demean the tune (hippy!) even as he finds significance in it, what can one say, that’s the sad price of being Bob.
You prove my point. In yesterday's post, Bob did not describe Teach Your Children as a "hippy" song; he said it was a "hippy-era anthem", which is simply to identify when it was written.
DeleteSo your accusation that Bob demeaned it rests on a false premise.
don’t be obtuse, he demeaned it by taking it out of context, ignoring the creator’s intent and not acknowledging who wrote it
Deletenot everyone who grew up in the 60s was a hippie
Your cognitive decline is more apparent with each comment.
DeleteThe phrase 'hippy era' does not imply everyone alive then was a hippy, only that hippies first came to prominence.
It wasn’t an anthem, nor was it embraced by hippies. If anything the song tries to bridge the gap between teens and their parents by urging tolerance on both sides. It does not say parents should be taught by kids as Somerby implies. It says being a kid is hard, just like parenting is hard. Hippies were not “prominent.” They were a social phenomenon, like surfers.
DeleteCurious that a song that "does not say parents should be taught by kids" has the phrase "Teach your parents well."
DeleteIs English your first language?
No.
DeleteDo you really think CSNY were suggesting that children should teach their parents to hate Israel?
DeleteI don’t understand. When my English teacher is back in the office I’ll get back to you.
DeleteCSNY and Dylan were out to make a buck, get famous, and get laid; frankly, their music/lyrics are mediocre at best, if people still cling to them, it’s due to nostalgia. Having said that, the Somerby defender is being obtuse, blindly “standing by their man” with a confused sense of loyalty that would make even Trump blush.
DeleteDylan is a Nobel Laureate.
DeleteCorby is still in Iceland. Try being someone else.
ReplyDeleteI admit I’m not really Corby, but Corby could comment from Iceland.
ReplyDeleteThis is Corby, commenting from Iceland. Jewish people are intelligent and kind. I like them.
ReplyDelete@3:59 you seem to have overlooked the fact that Muslims ethnically cleansed 900,000 Jews,
ReplyDelete@8:17 That was after the big mistake of erecting a Jewish state in Palestine.
ReplyDelete@8:17 PM
ReplyDeleteMuslims did not ethnically cleanse 900,000 Jews. Most migrated voluntarily (just like David's quote @1:04 PM states).
In other cases Mossad's terrorist provocations made it impossible for them to stay (see Naeim Giladi).
Zionists needed cheap and loyal labor, and they got it, by hook or by crook.
We all understand now. Palestine is an unworthy home for Jewish people, and they should emigrate.
ReplyDeletestupid troll
DeleteThe Palestinians are bad neighbors. Move out!
DeletePalestinians need to stop their attacks on Israel.
DeleteHamas needs to stop attacking, Palestinians do not support Hamas; Hamas is supported by Russia/Qatar and even Netanyahu. Unfortunately, its been the Palestinians that have paid the price for Hamas; in response to their side suffering 1200 casualties, Israel has gone on to kill over 10,000 Palestinian civilians, half of whom are children.
DeleteHamas’ attack was reprehensible, but exponentially less so than Israel’s response, which does not even have majority support among Jews; Israel has been captured by right wing religious fanatics who immorally place their religion as supreme and above their humanity.
Israel uses disproportionate force to counter Hamas because that is the only way to get them to stop attacking. When Hamas is sending rockets into Israel, the issue is not religion but survival.
DeleteYou may have been captured by a destructive form of binary thinking.
DeleteAnything is possible.
You are most likely a good, moral, and decent person, but your stance on Israel’s vindictive violence is morally untenable.
Either that or you fell down a well and Lassie can’t get anyone’s attention.
DeleteAnd most Palestinians migrated voluntarily, because Arab nations promised they would get the land back after the war. Unfortunately for them, they keep losing the wats they start in order to push Israelis out.
ReplyDeleteWhy did the Palestinians take Thais hostage?
ReplyDeleteThe religion that Palestinians subscribe to treats women as third class citizens, condemns gay people to death and other things that violate western democratic values. Why should a so called progressive support them?
ReplyDeleteYou’re right. Jews should get out of the Middle East.
DeleteIsrael is a country and it has as much right to exist as any other nation in the Middle East.
DeleteIsrael’s right to exist ends when it engages in apartheid and operates as a theocratic ethnostate, as is the case with any country in the same circumstance. I’m old enough to remember apartheid ending in South Africa, and Mandela saying that their freedom won’t be complete without the freedom of the Palestinians.
DeleteMore pro-Palestinian buzzwords.
DeleteBlack people in South Africa didn't use violence to attain the end of apartheid there. Hamas are murderous scum. It is an insult to compare the Palestinians to Mandela's crew.
DeleteIs this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
DeleteCaught in a landslide, no escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see
Mandela made that comparison himself, Blacks did use violence in South Africa, Hamas are scum, a majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas.
DeleteYou are blinded by tears of rage.
The ANC did some bombings but it wasn't armed like Hamas and it didn't send rockets into white neighborhoods, much less 7000 rockets (fired by Hamas in the two weeks since Oct 7).
DeleteIf those 4 million Palestinians in Gaza do not support Hamas, why are they still in power there?
Anonymouse 8:57am, because they are not fans of the West and that makes them useful.
ReplyDeleteYou’re right. Jewish Israelis should emigrate to the West.
DeleteThis remark @10:31 is antisemitic.
DeleteIt’s friendly advice. Jews thrive in the West.
DeleteJews are thriving in Israel. Palestinians are not. I wonder what that means? Shouldn't you be urging Palestinians to go somewhere else, where terrorism is admired and no one cares what bad neighbors you are?
DeleteI don’t like Palestinians. I like Jews. Palestinians can stay in their substandard region for all I care. I hope Jews will emigrate to a decent region.
DeleteJews are thriving in Israel. At some pont they may lose patience and actually expell some Palestinians.
Delete
DeleteYes, if endlessly whining about "antisemites", and Hamas, and Iran, and Hezbollah, and what-not, while begging for American money, means "thriving" in your hasbara language, Corby.
Jews in Israel live in constant turmoil, Israel has been a failure.
DeleteOnly a minority of Jews even bother to live in Israel, wisely the majority of Jews live in the US, in relative peace and comfort.
The Jewish community is a great asset to the United States.
DeleteFirst, they shouldn’t have taken any hostages. Hostage-taking is bad. But why the Thais? Because they help the Israeli economy.
ReplyDeleteAnd that makes them enemies of Palestinians?
ReplyDeleteHow is Somerby helping the right wing and Donald Trump's candidacy with this ongoing pro-Palestinian thread, in which he hints that if a person is pro-Israel, they must not have learned enough from the children?
ReplyDeleteThe goal for Somerby is to help the right. The split among Democrats over Israel/Palestine is on on which there is disagreement, so harping on pro-Palestinian themes here helps drive a wedge between pro-Israel liberals and pro-Palestinian progressives. Just like Russia's funding of Hamas (via Iran and Qatar) has helped stir up trouble that Trump can exploit. Trump's base is firmly behind him regardless of what happens in Israel, but Biden's polls have taken a hit over this turmoil. Further, money allocated to Israel makes it that much harder to fund Ukraine, so Russia hopes the right can squeeze off the defense support the US has been giving to Ukraine and thereby help Russia win their war of aggression.
Do pro-Palestinian progressives love the Palestinian cause sufficiently to put Trump back in office? It may boil down to that.
Anonymouse 2:13om, so now your fellow liberals who don’t concur with you are de facto stumping for Putin.
DeleteWithout a doubt, every week Corby is sending her hard-earned troll-farm wages to this brilliant freedom-loving world leader:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE
Putin is a dork.
DeleteCecelia, just Somerby.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:56pm, the cause may be different, but who do you revile when he makes arguments like this?
Delete“Do pro-Palestinian progressives love the Palestinian cause sufficiently to put Trump back in office? It may boil down to that.”
Trump was chosen by God to protect Israel.
DeleteThen why is God punishing him?
DeleteGod’s ways are mysterious.
DeleteMarcus does not say her kids are correct, and even suggests She is disappointed in them. Israel is an issue that breaks up the party line on both sides. That said, I do tend to agree with you, and Bob is the sort of liberal who only votes Dem to cover his conscience, so he can feel superior and preach at other libs.
DeleteBiden's polls were taking a hit loooong before this turmoil.
DeletePolls mean nothing at this stage of the game. Voters will elect Biden because of his successful policies and bold leadership. And the different types of ice creams he orders. There is an electric optimism in America. People say he is old but he looks nor acts a day over 80. Polls were showing an incumbent 34 points behind and losing the Senate and the House. Everybody said it was time to throw in the cards and time to panic.
DeleteThe year? 2012
The candidate? Barack Obama
That shows clearly that Biden will win.
Biden negotiated with Gaza for a cease fire. This will help him the polls.
DeleteMy poll goes up and down all the time.
DeleteIn the end, I’ll vote for Biden.
if trump was chosen by god to protect israel, how did biden get in there? was satan just too powerful? and why would god need trump to protect israel? isn't sky daddy all-powerful?
DeleteHamas is holding up the second hostage release. Big surprise.
ReplyDeleteSteve M. at No More Mister Nice Blog suggests that some young voters think Trump is cool because he says what he wants and is a womanizer. So much for the wisdom Somerby suggest they have, that their parents should listen to, he says. They perhas think pro-Palestinian demonstrations are cool too, because they get to shout obscenities and bully the press. Somerby is choosing the wrong role models.
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse 8:00pm, Somerby isn’t choosing the wrong models.
DeleteBy affording anonymices a comment board, he’s giving you an opportunity to not only vilify ideological opponents, but to tell each other to shut up when you’re not on the same page, because that is all anonymouse tyrants do.
Take Cecelia's advice. If you're going to be a tyrant, the least you could do is take away women's reproductive autonomy.
DeleteVilifying political opponents…you mean like David in Cal calling Obama an antisemite? Like that?
Delete"Steve M. at No More Mister Nice Blog suggests that some young voters think Trump is cool because he says what he wants and is a womanizer. So much for the wisdom Somerby suggest they have, that their parents should listen to, he says. "
DeleteWhy?
Anonymouse 9:03am, David doesnt routinely disparage people. He made a judgment of Pres. Obama over things Obama has stated. I made one too over his same statement. I still think Obama is one of the most compelling pols of our history, but flawed in his thinking and his resilience on some things.
DeleteI’m not insisting that you concur or shut up lest you be at fault for catastrophe.
Flawed in his resilience? What do you mean?
DeleteOne has to presume that English is Cecelia’s second language, the constant (and unintentionally amusing) non sequiturs and malapropisms are indicative of such.
DeleteObama ran as a progressive, then governed as a neoliberal, much like Clinton; Obama is one of the least compelling politicians, some of the ways Obama failed, Biden has succeeded. Biden is not a compelling campaigner, but he’s a good politician, probably our best, most moral president since FDR. I look forward to voting for him and enjoying a second Biden term.
Anonymouse 1:36pm, I speak for everyone in saying that we would all run that speech up the mast and salute it, if you could just get the flagpole out of your butt.
DeleteIt feels good, let me enjoy myself.
DeleteWhy does Cecelia have to be so crude all the time?
DeleteObama inherited the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression and helped guide this country through it, and enacted health care reform, which is now widely popular, to the extent that republicans no longer run on a platform to abolish it. Two of the largest red states in the country, Florida and Texas, have the largest per capita number of Obama are enrollees. To state that he is one of the least compelling politicians is ludicrous.
DeleteIt’s unanimous. Jewish people should leave the Middle East.
ReplyDeleteI’m not an anonymous. I’m a unanimouse.
DeleteAll people should leave the Middle East. It was fertile land when first populated, but now it’s a desert, only made useful via technology that harms the overall viability of our planet.
DeleteOne type of media bias is reporting claims by Hamas and claims by Israel as equally credible.
ReplyDeleteVideo of Massive Terror Complex Under Al Shifa Hospital Makes Media Look Ridiculous
The Israel Defense Forces brought cameras into the tunnels under Al Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip this week and exposed not just Hamas's sprawling operations there but also the terrorist group's enablers in the media.
The footage, taken by Fox News as well as by the IDF itself, revealed a massive, 160-meter-long underground complex complete with bathrooms, a kitchen, and other air-conditioned rooms. It was clear evidence that Hamas hid behind the hospital's patients and staff while launching attacks against Israel—a war crime that justifies the IDF's takeover of the hospital last week, according to international law.
"160-meter-long" doesn't seem all that "massive".
DeleteAnd how does an underground bathrooms and kitchen are "clear evidence that Hamas hid behind the hospital's patients and staff while launching attacks"?
Better trolling please.
DeleteThat’s what she said.
DeleteDavid is correctly pointing out how some media outlets are stenographers for Israel and for example report about the “terror complex” that it turns out Israel itself built.
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/al-shifa-hospital-hamas-israel/
Only a fool thinks Hamas doesn’t use human shields. That’s what hostages are.
DeleteConflating Palestinians with Hamas is as inaccurate as conflating Americans with the KKK.
ReplyDeleteThis is not true. No one elected the KKK to govern Americans but the Palestinians elected Hamas and continue to tolerate their activities. If the Palestinians in Gaza did not approve of Hamas, it would be easy enough to interfere with their activities. Instead, the Palestinians blame Israel for misery that Hamas has caused them. I haven't seen any anti-Hamas demonstrations here is the US or in Gaza. All that rock-throwing is being aimed at Israelis, not Hamas.
ReplyDeleteA daughter waits on her father hand and foot but always tells him no? I find myself wondering what more he is asking of her.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt this song has special meaning for Somerby, but there are some things a daughter should not let a father do to her. And there is no mystery what those tears of rage are about.
You are freaking creepy.
DeleteThat’s shocking. I’ve never listened to that song, but I was thinking, maybe I should, just to follow the discussion. But now I’ll never listen to it.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:18pm, you don’t need to listen to any song or recitation of any work to follow the discussion here.
DeleteAll you need to do is to cry that it’s a misappropriation and desecration when Somerby quotes someone’s work in his blog, but immediately swallow whole a fellow anonymouse’s intimation that Tears of Rage is about incest.
Thanks. I won’t bother to listen to that song. I’ll remain flawed in my resilience.
DeleteSomerby doesn’t give proper credit to those he quotes. He was taught how to do it at Harvard but he thinks it is cute to just steal what he wants, muck like Trump.
DeleteNot giving credit for a quote is very different from stealing it.
DeleteTo steal a quote would be to take credit for having thought it up yourself, rather than simply using it without what you consider the proper attribution.
Try to think before you type.
He takes those quotes entirely out of context and attributes his own meanings to them, which is intellectual theft. Linking at the end of a an article, without ever mentioning the names of the authors, composers or performers, is not proper attribution (not solely my opinion). Somerby was taught how to attribute things properly at Harvard. He knows how this is done.
DeleteIt doesn't matter whether it doesn't bother you. What matters is whether the people who create care about this, and they do, because it is their art, their reputations, their income and their life's work. Somerby is behaving like a cretin when he mistreats the people he supposedly is affected by.
When Somerby quotes this stuff without proper attribution, undereducated people will think he made this up himself. There shouldn't be any doubt.
Anonymouse 5:35pm, of course you will.
DeleteCecelia, why was it necessary for you to write this comment?
DeleteAnonymouse 6:40pm, what really makes you mad, is that you’ve been the shining example of the pique and disappointment of the lyrics of that song, in your insistence that your younger tribal members don’t really get the Israel-Palestinian conflict and that this ignorance may work against everything their elders in the party have tried to accomplish.
DeleteSomerby gets that age old conflict exactly right and he’s a bigger person than me in that he compassionately gets you right too.
"When Somerby quotes this stuff without proper attribution, undereducated people will think he made this up himself."
DeleteOnly a nincompoop like you would think that.
Somerby makes it clear he's quoting the lyrics to an "iconic song", i.e. a song which is so well known it doesn't require an attribution. Don't attribute your own nincompoopery to the public at large.
That’s no excuse.
DeleteCecelia, I have adult kids, unlike Somerby. They have their own opinions just like anyone else. You don’t get a thing I’ve said, which is that romanticizing youth doesn’t make then right.
Delete“your younger tribal members don’t really get the Israel-Palestinian conflict and that this ignorance may work against everything their elders in the party have tried to accomplish. “
DeleteNonsense. But it indicates that Cecelia believes that Somerby doesn’t give a shit about the Palestinians. He just wants to show how Democrats(liberals/progressives) are failures.
Forget the fact that Somerby seems to support the Palestinian cause, and says that the young people may have something to say to their parents. But to Cecelia this means that Somerby thinks the young people don’t “understand” the conflict.
Funny, he has never indicated such a thing, and yet Cecelia somehow intuits this. It means that she thinks Somerby is doing nothing but performative virtue signaling to mock liberals. What a shithead she is describing.
My takeaway from this post is somebody had a bad Thanksgiving.
Deletemh, I sad that Somerby had highlighted the divide that often occurs between between young and old. That’s not the same as my assigning him a position based upon his age. He clearly is not trying to shush his juniors.
DeleteYour suggestion that by ruing the divide between young and old, Somerby would be revealing that he doesn’t care about the actual conflict in the region, that he just wants to make fun of liberals, is the usual illogical childish argumentation of anonymices, not me.
It’s anonymices who make a grand fuss over Bob’s references of song lyrics and poetry in order to negate the relevance of any point he is actually making on a subject. You routinely do that defection act AND actually call him a shithead.
Anonymose 8:30pm, the song lyrics don’t romanticize youth or revere old age.
DeleteAs usual, you’re the one who has misinterpreted the blog.
Somerby romanticizes youth, not CSNY.
DeleteHamas was elected with a minority vote, most Palestinians do not support Hamas, which does have the support of Netanyahu as well from other nefarious entities looking to exploit others and externalize their violent agendas.
ReplyDeletePalestinians overwhelmingly support the PLO/PNA which was progressing peace by working with Israel until both it’s leaders (Rabin and Arafat) were assassinated by right wing fanatics.
Since then, Palestinians have no agency, they are kept in concentration camps, kept oppressed by Israel’s right wing government.
KKK members indeed have been elected to govern Americans.
The comparison is apt, the point is true.
Palestinians have to be the hugest victims on the face of the earth if they cannot get rid of a leadership you say is so despised by those 4 million people in Gaza. Next you will blame Israel for Hamas.
ReplyDeleteToday Hamas released a 4-year old American girl, one of 17 hostages set free. Two hundred more remain captive. What kind of people would take a four-year old hostage in the first place?
ReplyDeleteBad bad people.
DeleteThere’s a new article in the LA Times written by a pollster with expertise in polling and poll based analysis of the electorate, he says:
ReplyDelete“It's also a safe bet that few people who voted for Trump or Biden in 2020 will change their minds. Out of 158 million who voted, some will switch sides, but switching is rare. What's far more likely to decide the election is who turns out and who stays home.”
Huh. Interesting.
I am Corby.
ReplyDeleteNo, Corby is still in Iceland waiting for lava.
DeleteI gave up on the lava and left Iceland this afternoon.
Delete