TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 2024
Why in the world would he do that? Has the bipartisan Senate border deal actually crashed and burned?
We can't say with perfect certainty, but so it may appear. Along the way, President Biden made little attempt to speak to the public about this highest profile of all current issues, and MSNBC's blue tribe tribunes have continued to focus on the possibly impossible dream of throwing Trump under the jail.
Ther were no fireside chats from the sitting American president. There was no Oval Office address.
No explainer-in-chief has been appointed. There has been no major attempt to explain current procedures to the public—and we saw additional footage on TV last night which made us wonder, all over again, if President Biden will be up to the challenge of conducting a vigorous campaign this year on behalf of his own policies and his own ideas.
As a political matter, red tribe voices own this general issue. And with our blue team refusing to take the field, the general issue is politically potent.
Below, we'll show you what Al Sharpton said on yesterday's Morning Joe—what he said about the "invasion" of northern cities by waves of migrants. First, though, consider how hard it is to articulate even the simplest facts about the way current laws and policies work.
In this morning's New York Times, reporter Angelo Fichera conducts a fact check about the proposed border deal. Below, you see the way he starts. Quite quickly, the language gets murky:
No, Border Deal Won’t ‘Allow’ 5,000 Unauthorized Immigrants a Day
Republican critics have quickly twisted one element of a bipartisan compromise bill unveiled on Sunday to misleadingly suggest that it permits 5,000 migrants to enter the country illegally every day.
The legislation, which links additional funding in military aid for Ukraine with immigration policy, would more aggressively tamp down on illegal crossings at the U.S. border with Mexico.
The claim has become a popular talking point, reflecting broader pushback by Republicans who have seized on the border security provisions in the $118.3 billion bill and derided them as too lax.
But the bill does not, in fact, authorize immigrants to cross the border illegally. Instead, among other provisions, it would give officials the authority to summarily remove migrants, with little recourse, after a certain number cross: an average of 5,000 encounters per day for a week, or 8,500 in a single day.
Question! As a matter of basic logic, would it even be possible to "permit" a bunch of people to engage in some action "illegally?"
Let's put it a different way! If a proposal did, in act, "authorize" immigrants to cross the border, then in what sense could it be said that they were doing so "illegally?"
This connects to a simple question, one we've never seen addressed or explained. If migrants have applied for asylum and have thereby been released into the country, can they accurately be described as "illegal immigrants?" Because that's what's they're called on Fox all day long and into the night, and it seems to us that this would be an inaccurate way to describe their status.
How does our current border system work? If you stopped a thousand people on the street, could even five such people answer basic questions about the laws and policy procedures which have produced the current situation?
We're quite sure that we wouldn't be able to do that. In fairness, neither would anyone else!
Our blue tribe's thought leaders spend their days discussing the best ways to frog-march Trump to jail. Over the course of the past few years, they've generally acted as if the southern border and its attendant problems don't even exist.
Meanwhile, red tribe voices rant and rail about Biden's failure to stem "the illegals." As this round-the-clock barrage occurs, Biden himself remain hidden away. He's barely said a word himself, and no alternate explainer has emerged.
That brings us to Reverend Sharpton. Why did he say the things he did? Looking through comments at certain blue sites, we see little sign that blue tribe commenters understand the lay of the land with respect to what's happening here.
That said, here's the first thing Sharpton said on yesterday's Morning Joe. He spoke with Senator Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) during the 7 o'clock hour. You can see him say it here:
SHARPTON (2/5/24): Senator Murphy, Al Sharpton. What is being done to get the public to really rise up in various states to say to their senators that they want to see the borders, the border issue resolved? I mean, you're getting migrants beating up policemen in the streets of New York. You're seeing an influx of migrants all over the country that frankly have people outraged.
Couldn't there be some kind of public pressure put in the next couple days in some of these senators' states saying, "Why are you allowing this to continue?"...I mean, we're looking every day at the invasion of migrants and they're playing a time game with politics on this?
Just like that, the term "invasion" jumped from red tribe rhetoric all the way over to blue. Later, during the 8 o'clock hour, Sharpton used the new term again, this time saying this:
"We're looking at cities being invaded—Democratic mayors, particularly black ones, being invaded."
Why has Sharpton made this rhetorical leap? If you've been watching red tribe cable, you may have a rough idea.
While our blue tribe city mice dream of throwing Trump in jail, the red tribe country mice have been playing tape of outraged black residents in major northern cities. Those black citizens have been voicing their anger at the way immigrants within their cities are literally being given cash in the form of prepaid debit cards, but also at the way the limited resources of their lower-income communities are being redirected to house and shelter migrants.
Our city mice keeping talking to one another. Here's the one song they know:
Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Jail!
While blue thought leaders sing that song, the industrious mice of the rival red tribe are beating our blue tribe's political brains out on their own cable net.
Our guess:
Sharpton is hearing from those angry black constituents. Many of them have now been saying that they won't vote blue this year.
He's also speaking on behalf of those overwhelmed and challenged black mayors. In comment threads, we rarely see a lot of signs that our tribe is aware of these problems, or that we actually care.
Biden is AWOL and Lawrence [HEART] jail! Black residents seem to be increasingly angry, and whatever the merits of granting a shot at asylum to good decent people, it isn't real hard to see why.
More black citizens seem to be saying that they may vote for Trump this year. No one can say that our landlocked blue cadres aren't working to earn our way out.
What a steaming pile of festering bullshit. Bob’s bottomless pit of compassion for one clearly evil white man going to jail is truly sickening balanced against his utter lack of concern for desperate people seeking asylum. Will Bob ever mention Republican reversal on the immigration bill?
ReplyDeleteBlack NIMBYISM is racist and assimilationist just like Sharpton is a token minority for white people to feel like ethnographers
ReplyDeleteThat’s why Somerby tells you what sharpton is saying. He hopes to shame liberals, because how dare they disagree with the black guy on TV?
DeleteBob thinks he found an Indian with his ear to the ground like some excited Hardy boy solving a mystery, but he is literally just witnessing the colonial capture of inner race jealousy
DeleteInter race jealousy
DeleteAnonymices, please. You’ve thrown down more race cards on this blog than Corby has pixels.
DeleteIn the city of Chicago under Mayor Richard J Daley Sr. (the Boss), there were about 500,000 Hispanic residents evenly split between Mexican Americans and Puerto Rican Latinos. The organizations providing community services used to approach the mayor for funding and if they were Mexican American, he would tell them that he would like to fund their project but he had already allocated all of the funds to the Puerto Rican organizations. If the Puerto Ricans approached, he would tell them he had given the money to the Mexican American groups already. The pitting of ethnic groups against each other by such bosses was part of politics.
DeleteToday, we see Somerby pitting Sharpton and black NYC residents against the hapless migrants, threatening to divert resources from the black community to the newcomers. This is a trick as old as time. Sharpton needs to join forces with the migrant advocacy groups to present a united front to the city and anyone else who might decide to use the migrants as an excuse to neglect the needs of other constituents. Unions learned that a long time ago, but so must community organizers.
Somerby, of course, has no truck with Sharpton or the migrants. He is trouble-making on behalf of the Republicans and thinks that liberals will have to choose between Sharpton and migrants, when the answeris "both needs must be met" and we will not be divided and conquered.
Anonymouse 7:23pm, divide and conquer is eternally your game plan. Always was and always will be.
DeleteLeave it to you to miss the point.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:58pm, I didn’t miss your point. I read your pointed instructions for Sharpton and his attitude toward the children not in his “house”. Not in “our” house.
DeleteNo, you missed it.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:41pm, “both needs must be met”.
DeleteI get it, but no one gets it more than Sharpton.
7:23
DeleteThank you for your insightful comment
This is like the "we need to help our veterans, not immigrants" shtick.
DeleteThe richest country in the history of mankind, could easily afford to do both.
Governments are supposed to serve the interests of their citizens.
DeleteIf you want to help foreigners, there are plenty of charities where you can send your money.
What if helping foreigners serves the interests of the government's citizens?
DeleteHelping foreigners can't serve interests of the citizens. But serving interests of the citizens might, accidentally, help some foreigners. Or not.
Delete10:05,
DeleteFuck Netanyahu, for sure.
If a TV liberal/Democrat/black guy like Sharpton says it, all liberals must nod their heads in agreement. Because Al’s take now legitimizes all the red tribe mouth-breathing, which means they must have a point. Anyone who doesn’t call it an invasion is living in a blue bubble. TV talking heads rule.
ReplyDeleteAnd remember: don’t try to explain or counter the idea that an unmanageable invasion is taking place. Those “angry black” constituents (whose? Sharpton’s?) must not be presented with counter arguments.
And remember: Biden is AWOL. Based on … what we’re hearing on TV.
Funny. Those black constituents who voted in South Carolina seemed to like Biden ok.
Also: “ Black residents seem to be increasingly angry, and whatever the merits of granting a shot at asylum to good decent people, it isn't real hard to see why.”
Not hard, eh? Why don’t you spell out why YOU think this is the case, Bob.
ReplyDeleteAl Sharpton is funded by Russia via Iran and Qatar.
I am Zorby.
DeleteAl Sharpton's middle name is Boris. I am Norby.
Genuine, genuine. But stop smearing Qatar, the site of an important American base.
DeleteBob asks, "If migrants have applied for asylum and have thereby been released into the country, can they accurately be described as "illegal immigrants?" "
ReplyDeleteThe real-world answer is "Yes". Here's why:
Most of these people would not qualify for asylum status if they went to their hearing. So, they simply disappear and live here without legal status.
So you don’t believe in innocent until proven guilty. Good to know.
Delete
DeleteIt doesn't even matter whether they qualify or not. Unauthorized border crossing is a crime. If you want to apply for asylum, you must apply at an official entry point.
"11 Years of Government Data Reveal That Immigrants Do Show Up for Court
DeleteDue Process and the Courts -- Immigration Courts
January 28, 2021
WASHINGTON—A new report released today by the American Immigration Council examines 11 years of government data on the rate at which immigrants appear for hearings in U.S. immigration court. The report, “Measuring In Absentia Removal in Immigration Court,” concludes that an overwhelming 83% of immigrants attend their immigration court hearings, and those who fail to appear in court often did not receive notice or faced hardship in getting to court."
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/11-years-government-data-reveal-immigrants-do-show-court
You guys just pull this stuff out of your asses. It took 30 seconds to find actual evidence about how many asylum applicants show up at their hearings.
After the 20 year mark on average college debt, which is trillions of dollars now, it's 95% non white people paying.
ReplyDeleteThe Democrats aren't fighting back enough right now against this horrible attack on equality. But it is the Republican movement that kills Black success in education the most. They oppose detracking, they gentrify with charter schools, and now they lock everyone into debt that's easier to pay off if your are from privilege.
The school system mirrors capitalism so well it's just another instrument of stigma and class and race sorting now.
I don't understand the statement about 95% non white people paying.
DeleteHere are some statistics on black vs white student debt and repayment rates. Money is the number one obstacle to degree completion for white and black college students.
https://sites.ed.gov/whblackinitiative/files/2016/11/Black-College-Graduates-and-the-Student-Debt-Gap.pdf
@3:34 You seem to be saying that the Republicans loaned as much as trillions of dollars to needy black students. You say It's the Republicans' fault if many of these borrowers are now having trouble paying back their loans.
DeleteWhat about the borrowers themselves? Do you believe blacks are incapable of agency? Are blacks not responsible for their own decisions about their own lives in your opinion? Do you think blacks are permanent children?
I will agree with you to some degree in shifting blame away from the borrowers. The colleges oversold the financial value of a college education. Imagine the unfortunate kids who borrow a lot of money to major in black studies. What lucrative job will that lead to?
Also, affirmative action often creates a mismatch between black students and their colleagues. As a result, the black graduation rate is quite low. So, there are a lot of blacks with no college degree but a high student loan debt.
When the typical white people pay off their debt it takes 20 years. It takes people without family college funds longer and those people are predominantly non white.
DeleteSo with price gouging in the college systems added to this unforgivable debt meme a lot of Black people are going on debt strikes. And it's creating unrest. In the white backgrounds too. It's quietly hurting a whole generation of people to price gouge the school system.
The reason things this complex happen at the same time as discrimination is that they are too complicated for the cable news advertising model of journalism to discuss. People need simple stereotypes. That's how you sell people advertising.
DeleteThere's a method to the manager side of how all corporations refuse to take responsibility. It's in their manuals, they turn down responsibility whenever possible to save money. And so a lot of complex race issues get erased simply because they aren't simple enough for the mechanical managerially elitists to respect.
DeleteArguing about feelings about Republicans or Democrats at this level of analysis is mostly a distraction. They're significantly different parties but the operating of capitalism is deeper than either can take claim of explaining.
DeleteThat said, resolving this issue is exactly why politics exists in the first place.
Republicans who don't like corporations are fooling themselves. Democrats who don't like them can choose a progressive. But still they're corporate adjacent simply for running in a two party system.
Rich people put polluting industry in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods then call it jobs. Then people get asthma driving to the next town for a better job. This is all systemic violence that is too subtle to be discussed in corporate media much.
DeleteDavid, you are making some unwarranted assumptions and confusing the situation for profit-making trade schools and 4-year colleges and universities. Minorities were ripped off by those profit-making schools and diploma mills, but many of those problems have been fixed, including debt forgiveness for those caught in scams targeting minority students. At legitimate four-year colleges and universities, the value of graduating is worth the money spent and a great deal more. However, the job situation for white and black graduates is not equal. Due to discrimination, black graduates have more difficulty being hired into jobs matching their educational level, earn less, are promoted less, and have less ability to make their degrees pay off, compared to white students equal in other respects. But the degree is still worth way more than the debt acquired.
DeleteBlack students pay off their debts more slowly because repayment schedules are typically based on income and expenses. Black students are permitted to make lower payments because they earn less money and have more financial obligations. No one pays off their debt before they are required to. Obama paid off his college loans only right before he began his campaign for president. Other expenses take priority for both white and black students. Boebert didn't pay off her debts until she was accused of using her campaign expense account to pay back taxes and she didn't get a GED until she decided to run for congress. And she's white.
Portraying education as a scam perpetrated on black people is wrong when it is the only means of advancement, especially for transitioning into the middle class. Going to college allows access to higher paying, more stable jobs, which provides the chance to buy a car and a house and acquire equity that can be used to send kids to college later on. Declaring that route a scam and implying that black students are being robbed and do not benefit from college is a disservice to them and inconsistent with statistics on the value of a college degree:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/184259/mean-earnings-by-educational-attainment-and-ethnic-group/
What kinda white nonsense is this. Intergenerational college funds are real things, sweetheart
DeleteThe moment David starts to criticize capitalism the neoliberal swoops in to gatekeep
DeleteThese multiple anti-capitalism anti-corporate messages are like a parody of progressive concerns. They are new on this blog and appear to be coming from a troll, or perhaps even a gpt bot. I do not understand what their purpose is, but the tone of negativity is similar to Somerby's own tone and visiting a so-called liberal blog suggests they are targeting liberal readers.
DeleteMesages that say that both parties are bad and that even the left is corrupt, are typically ways of suppressing votes, not getting someone to vote a particular way. Perhaps this troll campaign is aimed at encouraging Biden voters to stay home because Biden is insufficiently progressive or not going to overturn capitalism or something stupid like that.
If you are tempted to agree with this troll, please do not throw your vote away. Remember that we still need to defeat Trump because he will be much, much worse than any tool of capitalism who is not a narcissistic billionaire. There are degrees of evil in our world.
We need even lukewarm unenthusiastic votes because the alternative, Trump, will make a lot of people's lives hell and no one should want that.
Who hurt you?
Deletewhen the stock market traders told everyone to go to work and die from Corona together they were being sincere. Capitalism is also the model of media this blog criticizes. It's relevant to the history of the world and the priorities and perception of voters. Roosevelt ran on strong regulation of capitalism.
DeleteRepublicans won so often recently cause Democrats are not educated on big lobbies and their deceptions.
@4:20 In today's job world it's the reverse of what you said. Black graduates have LESS difficulty being hired into jobs matching their educational level." All organizations, corporations and non-profits and governmental, are desperately seeking to hire qualified blacks. The problem is that a much lower percentage of blacks are qualified. In many cases a white or Asian is apt to be more qualified. Bob often points out that on average blacks are around 3 years behand whites and 4 years behind Asians on average. That gap no doubt persists after graduation. This is reality.
DeleteThe real challenge IMO is for schools to improve the way they teach so that blacks won't be so far behind whites and Asians. A good first step is to have a choice of alternative schools, so parents can get their children out of schools that aren't working for them.
It's as simple as using a simple literacy test for honors classes instead of Scantron. That simple policy fix gets way more black students to college.
Delete@4:20 It's difficult or impossible to tease out why college grads earn more than non-grads. I once heard a college President run into the same statistical fallacy that you did.
DeleteThe fact that earnings go up as educational achievement goes up DOES NOT MEAN that the greater education was the CAUSE of the higher earnings. The kids who get into college are on average superior to those who don't. The ones who graduate are better than the one's who flunk out.
Comparing the earnings of people with different educational achievement is a comparison of people with different degrees of ability. Do college grads earn more because they're more able? Or, because they have a degree? Both are relevant factors. It's not easy to figure out how much credit each deserves.
Another common fallacy is ignoring the field of study. Some fields, like mine, pay more than some other fields.
David, I trust the statistics and the personal experiences of actual black people over your distorted perception that black people get preference over more qualified white people.
DeleteThe mistake in your understanding of Somerby's racial gaps is that these are means. There are many black students with scores above the mean and many below the mean. There are black students much smarter than you or anyone in your family. They are not the average, but they exist in the curve. Unless you know what an individual person's abilities are, you cannot make judgments about them, especially not based on their skin color.
Alternative schools have not been shown to close racial testing gaps.
@5:25 A scantron is just a form used to record answers to questions for machine scoring. It says nothing about whether literacy is being tested or not.
Delete"Another common fallacy is ignoring the field of study."
Precisely. There are studies that give people useful professions, generating high wages. In that case, paying off the debt will not be a problem.
And then there is all the "liberal arts" shit. "Women's studies", "AA studies", etc. Waste of time and money.
Liberal arts are the foundation of elementary school teaching. There are lots of jobs as teachers but you need a college degree and a teaching credential. Women's studies and AA studies prepare their majors to work in HR in corporations where they will do recruiting and make sure companies and contracts meet govt requirements, they also work in market research and advertising, where they develop plans for reaching specific demographic groups with targeted messages; and in political campaigns where they do the same, except to target voters. If they go on and acquire conflict resolution skills, they can be mediators for organizations with public exposure. Some with women's studies and AA studies majors go on to law school and work in civil rights, or some without also work in civil rights organizations doing advocacy. Corporations hire people with such degrees as mgmt trainers because they know how to avoid misunderstandings related to culture, reduce complaints and implement new programs.
DeleteLiberal arts are also: "academic subjects such as literature, philosophy, mathematics, and social and physical sciences as distinct from professional and technical subjects."
Philosophy majors go to law school, but some also get a masters degree and become ethicists for hospitals or corporations. Literature majors become writers and can make a shitload of money. Mathematicians and physical scientists are in demand in STEM jobs beyond established majors like computer science, so they are on the cutting edge of emerging fields where such majors don't yet exist. Or they become professors, which is a high paying, stable job that is very fun to do.
If you take on the extra debt to become a lawyer or physician, do well, your employer will generally pay off your student debt as a recruiting incentive.
I generally think that students should pursue whatever they are interested in, because that will be the most satisfying way to spend the remaining years of their lives. Doing a job you dislike, just to earn money, is my idea of hell, and it is unnecessary because there are jobs in fields that students cannot even imagine, and new jobs emerging in fields we don't know about yet. But college imparts skills for future learning (not just job training) and the ability to approach problems, communicate and coordinate with others, etc., so grads are in demand even when their job title doesn't match their major.
Scantron tests are used by the middle school testing that gatekeep honors classes years later in the education process. Forgive being a little rhetorical but it's really the symbol of testing worshipping I'm criticizing.
DeleteDe tracking means using simple enough tests for honors classes you don't have to use sophisticated models of forecasting. You just let students try to pass.
I'm against closing the doors to honors students just cause you got lower scores years ago. This is just prejudice. There's tons of schools who killed the tracking system and they graduate more people into college now.
DeleteThey challenge everyone with the honors curriculum not just a few savants and people who had testing tutors.
And this has knock on effects in reducing racism, nationalism, ableism later.
If standardized tests can't segregate the schools anymore that's a remarkably effective ways to improve schools.
DeleteWhy isn't that good enough? That's winning
Those students won
Mainstreaming everyone works great for average kids but not well for very smart kids who need more challenge. You refer to them as test-tutored, but there are actual gifted kids who need to work harder.
DeleteThis isn't hypothetical, literally students beat the bell curve every day in some high schools and just go into college. There are detracking success stories. The smart students like it too. They see it as getting input from more people's backgrounds in school. It's enriching.
DeleteThere's nothing bad that happens from this policy. It just reduces racism and gets people into college.
Smart students need harder work. The question isn’t whether they like their classes but whether they are learning how to meet a challenge when things no longer come easily to them.
DeleteLucy yanked the football away and Somerby expect Biden to make a speech about it? Then conplains that Biden isn't campaigning vigorously. There is no benefit to announcing to the American people that the Republicans are playing a game with border policy.
ReplyDeleteSomerby also doesn't seem to know the difference between presidential campaign appearances and speeches made to announce public policy or comment on events of national importance, as commander in chief. The later are reserved for rare and serious concerns. The former are made in states with primaries and focus upon reelection, not national concerns.
The border is neither a new nor a pressing issue. The Republicans suggested they might be amenable to revising border policy, but then refused to pass their bill (at Trump's insistence). To comment on that only plays into Trump's and the Republican's hands. Making a policy speech about the border, which is a political talking point for the Republicans, would be a misuse of Biden's podium, confuse people who haven't been paying attention and would amount to giving a speech to announce that no progress has been made. Biden knows better than to do something like that.
Somerby implies that Biden has not been giving speeches, but that is incorrect. Biden addressed the nation to announce our response to Hamas, for example. Today, Biden gave an address on the Emergency National Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, urging congress to pass it. Three days ago, Biden visited Superior, Wisc. His remarks and interactions with the audience are shown on Youtube (The White House). Biden has been conducting more frequent press briefings than Trump did during his term (as a much younger man than Biden). Trump went 300 days without a single press briefing (by his press secretary or himself), shutting out the press entirely.
https://theconversation.com/trump-white-house-goes-300-days-without-a-press-briefing-why-thats-unprecedented-130164
No one has suggested that Trump has greater energy than Biden, and he certainly is less conscientious in fulfilling the duties of the president. But Somerby's focus is on Biden's so-called energy level, not Trump's laziness and lack of interest in doing the job of president, not to mention his current lack of physical stamina, most evident on the golf course.
One cannot argue that Biden is energetic by comparing him to someone as lethargic as Trump, but comparing him to the requirements and duties of the office is totally fair and reveals a hard-working man doing the job fully with dedication and enthusiasm. That can hardly be said of Trump at any point in his life.
So, what is the point of Somerby's complaint? He is obviously campaigning against Biden and offering excuses for Trump, trying to generate sympathy for a fuck-up. Why would anyone who wants Biden to win write an essay like this one, especially when what he says is untrue?
The point is leaders of the "blue tribe" have focused so much on countering Trump, they neglect to tackle the intricate issues surrounding immigration policy and the impact on communities directly influenced by these policies.
DeleteThis oversight and failure to connect with the underlying issues could lead to disenchantment among voters, particularly among black citizens who have voiced their discontent with the effects of immigration on their communities.
"Why would anyone who wants Biden to win write an essay like this one"
DeleteThe intent isn't to undermine Biden but to highlight where communication and policy actions could be improved, especially on contentious issues like immigration. It is constructive criticism which will make Biden much stronger. Shielding him from constructive criticism will make him weaker. Although I know it's hard to take sometimes. But you're going to have buck up and stop showing this weakness in the loins that leads you to avoid criticisms and their substance. Be a man for once.
Somerby never makes concrete suggestions for improving anything. He only makes vague criticisms.
DeleteHehe. I get it. Funny.
DeleteImmigration is only an issue for Republicans. Somerby tries to make it appear as though blacks in NYC also care, but I doubt they do. Democrats feel sorry for immigrants being shipped around the country, but it is Republicans doing that, not our national immigration policy.
DeleteWhy create urgency around something that is no more important than other Republican culture war issues?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-mass-immigration-hurts-black-americans
DeleteYes, we know that your propaganda outlets are trying to make this a thing, but that doesn't make it true.
Delete"Immigration is only an issue for Republicans."
DeleteYour trolling is funny. Do you get paid for it? Are you from one of those British trolling firms hired by the DNC?
https://abc7ny.com/amp/officers-attacked-times-square-migrants-nypd/14387241/
DeleteCecilia - they are highly organized, well-funded professional spreaders of disinformation.
DeleteYou don't have to convince them that blacks in NYC also care about immigration. They are here to obscure the truth about that. They are posting here because blacks in NYC also care about immigration.
This right here, on the Howler every day, is high level information warfare, well funded by the highest levels of power. They are very well organized, very successful and very determined.
Anonymouse 8:41pm, they’re freaking automaton dumb asses.
DeleteY'all really spend your lives arguing about spam comments like you're solving international espionage
DeleteAnonymouse 9:06pm, ain’t “y’all”, I know you’re as honest and straight forward as a meth-head panhandler used car dealer.
DeleteLeaving a comment with no research is also spamming
DeleteTime for Cecelia to put away the bottle.
DeleteAnonymices, shouldn’t you be addressing Anonymouse 8:41pm, who actually takes you seriously?
DeleteI take you magnanimously. With all my heart.
Make those blue state infidels suffer!
No one knows what you’re talking about after a certain hour. You are embarrassing yourself now.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:00pm, Sharpton and company understand your game.
DeleteIt seems clear that Biden's policy is to let in as many migrants as possible, perhaps hoping that they will eventually become Democratic voters. Many influential Republicans also want to let in many migrants, in order to have low-paid labor. Therefore there is insufficient incentive in Washington to cut off the illegal immigration. It follows that no law can fix the problem. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, Biden doesn't need a bill to cut way down on illegal immigration. He could act right now to reinstate the many effective things Trump was doing that Biden discontinued.
I'm glad the current bill is apparently dead. My fear is that a some less bad version will pass. I think the Senate Republicans were foolish to cooperate in drafting this structure. It's a loser for the country and a political loser for the Republican Party.
No matter what facts we show you, you keep repeating the same lies about Biden's actions and intentions.
DeleteIt's tit for tat. Republicans don't want any immigration reform under Biden because then it takes it away as a campaign issue. Meanwhile, Democrats (at least the ones on here) are completely incapable of discussing any shortcomings of their strategy and supportive MSM outlets that echo it, they will always deflect to point out the latest dumb behavior on the right.
DeleteAs usual I must point out I am not saying "both sides same." Since that is the most common response. MSM democrat-leaning outlets are more fair and balanced. That does not negate my point.
The NY Times excerpt explains:
Delete"The legislation, which links additional funding in military aid for Ukraine with immigration policy, would more aggressively tamp down on illegal crossings at the U.S. border with Mexico."
There are both Republican and Democratic congress members who desperately want funding for Ukraine to be passed. Linking that funding to something Republicans have wanted -- the immigration changes -- seemed like a way to encourage congress to fund support for Ukraine. The main obstacle has not been Republican concerns about the bill, but Trump's insistence that the border continue to be a campaign issue for him, something that cannot happen if the left gives the right everything it has asked for in the border bill.
The problem now is that there is still no funding for Ukraine being passed, and that is upsetting to both Democrats and Republicans, but not to Trump (for obvious reasons) or the Putin-lovers on the right.
Somerby could have mentioned that himself, but he has been ignoring this aspect of the situation and today is pretending this is happening because Biden doesn't give enough speeches ('cause he's an old guy, hint hint hint).
"The legislation, which links additional funding in military aid for Ukraine with immigration policy, would more aggressively tamp down on illegal crossings at the U.S. border with Mexico."
DeleteAnd to be clear, the reason the military aid was linked was due to republican insistence that they be linked. Democrats completely surrendered on the immigration package and then trump pulled the rug out. I don't think repubs are dealing in good faith.
Biden is keeping in place a lot of Trump rules against immigrants
DeleteImmigration is a distraction the media is creating to make white people panic and be too scared to think of researching real issues
DeleteThe colonizing liberals want the economic boost of immigration cause they're capitalist. The colonizing Republicans want to just work people harder until they die.
DeleteBoth are a distraction from unionizing and building working class power.
You're fighting the immigrants for them
DeleteYou can't even vote at a corporate board meeting unless you're the son of some important owner, and yet you feel so powerful chasing down asylum seekers like runaway slaves getting sold down the river.
DeleteSuch a coincidence that conservatives want to deport poor people and also vote for unethical racists
DeleteConservative elites are laughing all the way to the bank with your donations to their absurd theater
DeleteAmerica doesn't really have conservatives. It has politicians who pretend to be that. But they're just salesmen for a few donors. That's what has to change in every party is that money is too influential in politics.
DeleteNeither liberals nor conservatives really talk about campaign finance reform.
What I'm starting to see is liberals think they can have capitalism working without greed..Then they blame the greed on everyone. Who let all these greedy people into my pure capitalism???
DeleteVoters are taught to criticize donors of the opposite party but not their own
DeleteYou can vote at a corporate board meeting if you own voting shares in that corporation.
DeleteA common fallacy is to imagine that capitalism causes greed. Greed is human. Socialism imagines that leaders can be selected who will run the country without greed. But, the usual reality is that Socialist leaders are given enormous amounts of power, which they use for their own benefit, to a considerable degree.
DeleteThe genius of capitalism is that competition moderates and channels the effect of the greed that was always there and will always be there.
Thanks for the explanation @3:53. From a conservative POV, aside from funding Ukraine, the so-called immigration reform actually is step backward in their opinion.
Delete"It seems clear that Biden's policy is to let in as many migrants as possible, perhaps hoping that they will eventually become Democratic voters."
DeleteWhat's your evidence for this claim? Someone on the internet demanded it?
Listen friend. If Biden were really interested in instant citizenship I would be ecstatic.
But Biden isn't a socialist. He's a capitalist liberal. He looks at the GDP go up from the economic effect of immigration and he is satisfied. He told unions they shouldn't strike.
This issue about immigration is nothing but media scare tactics to get you to be a good obedient consumer of commercial Cable Media and vote red instead of blue.
David, the Republicans defined the bill. It is all the stuff they asked for.
DeleteAmerica isn't even a democracy.
DeleteThe big parties are owned by the people who donate to them. The liberals are greedy nerds, the conservatives are greedy nerds. Regular people have been warped by propaganda.
So no, Biden is not a socialist. I wish he were but he's not.
I do wish that his cabinet gets reelected , they are approving unionization at higher rates. But I have a humanitarian view of migrants not only utilitarian economic.
There are no perfect parties and no perfect candidates, but nihilism is not a viable plan for defeating Trump.
DeleteI've done organizing work on campaign finance reform and jobs programs.
DeleteMatter of fact it does't occur to Democrats to say we are going to give immigrants jobs but that's what statistically will keep people focused on the good side of life.
The needle I'm trying to thread here is to get people to put down the baseball bat aimed at migrants and pick up a clipboard and do something about your own lives.
DeleteI'm not reassured that the parties are falling over each other to see who can say they want to be more dramatic about the border.
Your mistake @7:17 is considering Somerby to be any kind of Democrat. He is not. This immigration concern is coming from the right not the left. I think Sharpton probably has his own local political concerns with Mayor Adams and Somerby is using him to further his own agenda, which is Biden bashing.
DeleteThe only people who care about migrants as people are on the left.
DeleteAmerica has at best a center left presidency under Biden. It has some progressives. But it doesn't really have a left that you can see in power.
DeleteGiven that half of our citizens are not left at all, a center-left president who must govern on behalf of everyone seems appropriate.
DeleteThe black Panthers used to give free healthcare to people. They were very left wing. But McCarthyism destroyed the American understanding of Marx.
DeleteThe Democrats recently punched back against Trump with a conscious effort to consult with their progressive ranks and the economy is doing well generally, except for student and medical debt which everyone not just liberals and conservatives have to come up with a solution for.
So I am hoping we get campaign finance laws passed so people can have educated politicians and not ones who need big donors.
You can start it off by making donations yourself.
DeleteI donate 50 dollars a month to a working class lobby that is active in creating policy on campaign finance
DeleteWho made you the soccer coach of political campaigns telling everyone what to do?
DeleteBob has a very simple argument. Don't give up easy arguments to trump voters. Be able to explain your case convincingly. He uses examples of liberals being incorrect not to help Republicans but to help you make better arguments. He's a devils advocate showing the media so their jobs in a lazy way.
DeleteHe still carries a white middle class perspective but he renewed the 1960s and likes public school funding. He's a Democrat voter etc.
Don't kill the messenger
The media do*
DeleteHe remembers 1960s activism*
From a conservative POV, aside from funding Ukraine, the so-called immigration reform actually is step backward in their opinion.
DeleteSo called, David? What would you like to call it, you racist bastard?
He'd like to you idiot-moonbat.
Delete1:44,
DeleteIsn't part of the problem that trump voters aren't making good faith arguments?
How does listening to them (Bob's advice to us tribal Lefties) help?
7:45, you need to take remedial English and learn how to write an intelligible sentence, Boris.
DeleteMy name is Barack, idiot-moonbat. Not Boris. You hate me because I am a Negro, but I am only half Negro.
DeleteSomerby wants to discuss immigration policy and procedures but he says:
ReplyDelete"We're quite sure that we wouldn't be able to do that. "
Yet he sits around all day watching Fox News. The info that would make him educated on the topic of immigration exists on the internet. Anyone can read it. Even Somerby, but he would have to tear himself away from watching Gutfeld for a half hour or so.
And his comment section would too
DeleteIt’s a tough day for Bob. Another bit of “legal Trivia” suggests his poor, disordered pal doesn’t get to be king. Then Mrs. MAGA Crumbly goes down. How insane!
ReplyDelete"they've [blue media] generally acted as if the southern border and its attendant problems don't even exist."
ReplyDeleteThis is such a lie.
ReplyDeleteWhy not just build a wall along the border and end all this nonsense? Is there a reasonable objection to the wall?
Let's build the wall to keep out dangerous people with 800,000 slaves from the prisons getting 5 cents an hour.
DeletePeople aren't keen on bringing back the 90% top tax rate to pay for and maintain it. Is that a reasonable objection? Hell no.
DeleteOur border with Mexico is 1954 miles. Our border with Canada is 5525 miles. Existing fencing is 654 miles long (at various spots, not continuous). Trump says he built 400 miles of wall, but he mainly improved existing fencing and added 80 miles new fencing.
DeleteTrump's 30-foot tall bollards have been causing injuries among those trying to climb over. Near El Paso, "...with the thirty-foot-tall sections under Trump, traumatic injuries surged to a much greater degree than the earlier upticks—almost 460 percent between 2019 and 2021 compared to the prior three-year period."
"In another study, UC San Diego neurosurgeon Alexander Tenorio found that since 2019 there had been a record number of spinal injuries suffered at the section of the border wall nearest San Diego. “Now we’re seeing multiple-level fractures that require surgery, and patients who stay in the hospital and intensive care unit for longer periods,” Tenorio told me, adding that traumatic brain injuries have similarly increased.
“I’ve been pushing this evidence that it’s all due to the thirty-foot barriers because all data shows that once you get above twelve to thirteen feet of height, you start seeing these more severe injuries to the brain,” Tenorio said. This summer he testified about the physical toll of the heightened border wall during a congressional subcommittee hearing. “As a physician, of course, I can’t speak to what their intentions were for thirty-foot barriers,” he said. “The main thing now is what could we do about it to halt further height extensions.”
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/taller-border-wall-falls-injuries/#:~:text=These%20included%20sections%20built%20during,the%20prior%20three%2Dyear%20period.
DeleteSo, no reasonable objection to the wall. Build the wall, and all this shit will be over, immediately. And, of course, no one is interested.
The wall would be a statement to the world that the US hates Mexicans and hates everyone
DeleteTrump has a KKK agenda to create a large public works project for white jobs but he is too corrupt to even get it done
DeleteThe rise in nativism in the USA coincided with the rise in racism (genetics and eugenics) in the early 1900s. People were concerned that immigrants were polluting the blood of their nation, but they also believed that things like alcoholism, crime and sexual promiscuity were genetic and could be prevented by sterilizing people with the wrong family histories.
ReplyDeleteAround that time period, the earliest IQ tests were being used to sort out people who were inferior due to genetic intelligence. Abuses of testing occurred, such as administering tests to people who were not literate or who didn't read or speak English, then declaring them imbeciles when they couldn't answer the test questions.
Screening at Ellis Island was instituted and IQ tests were used to declare entire ethnicities of people inferior, including people from Eastern Europe, Italians and peasants from all over (who were non-literate). This is where Polish jokes came from, for example. Health screening also promoted the idea that immigrants were dirty and brought disease, even though no one sick was admitted (sick people were retained and treated at a hospital on Ellis Island, people with physical defects were sent back).
Part of the impetus for this restriction on previously unlimited immigration was to prevent immigrants from participating as Democrats in NYC politics (see the film Gangs of New York) and Boston and Chicago politics. The genetic pseudoscience provided the justification, but the rationale was political and Republican. Immigrants were welcome before then, as farmers and settlers, businessmen, laborers on the railroad and other civic projects, household servants, and were seen as a boon not a liability to our society.
So, what were the good old days with respect to immigration. Historians could argue that it was the times before we tried to restrict entry. Our current paranoia and police-state tactics are not helping anyone much, except as a Republican political issue again. Immigrants enter, assimilate, and become part of our culture, leading lives similar to everyone else and we benefit from their labor and their traditions. But suggesting an open border would be political suicide.
In Europe, where there is now a united EU comprised of different cultures, there has been a major push to encourage everyone to appreciate their differences and to see themselves as enriched by their neighbor countries. It hasn't hurt them as a united political entity, but the influx of immigrants from outside EU countries have not been similarly welcomed.
Meanwhile, there are 1.6 million American expats living in Mexico. They like it there, appreciate the cheaper cost of living, like the warmth of the people who have welcomed them, and appreciate the culture. They don't find them to be drug dealers or rapists or gang members, but neighbors. Many of the Americans who live permanently in Mexico do not bother to get permanent residency permits or become citizens. Quite a few don't pay their taxes. Mexico doesn't seem to have as repressive an attitude toward them as we do toward our Southern border immigrants.
Somerby used to urge us all to see each other as people, to empathize and understand the Others. I don't hear him saying that about immigrants and I find myself wondering why his concern only extends to Southerners who want to do away with abortion, and not the gentle, hard-working people who are fleeing poverty, natural disasters and crime in their own countries, looking only for a better life with us.
Truth
DeleteI would say we can create integration without assimilation into being a race culture
DeletePeople shouldn't have to assimilate into middle class white culture just to live in America. People should just be themselves.
DeleteI applaud you for your recital of context but I still think your argument works better with the word integration not assimilation
DeleteThe word assimilation implies a dominant culture absorbing a weak one
DeleteThe word integration is you are seeing enough variety every day that it doesn't scare you into hiding behind documentation status to win an argument
Honestly though great comment overall
DeleteDo you think you would enjoy living in France if you didn't know any French language?
DeleteThe wars against African independence left a big bruise on Islam including restrictive gender culture that is tied to old fashioned European sexism. So the colonizers played a dual role of pillaging Africa then shaming them for not governing with more nurturing receptivity. The third world debt to the financial system is an extension of colonialism into the world economy.
DeleteThe Abrahamic faiths all contain some message of peace and human development but constant warfare freezes the old bruises and pain into resentment politics
DeleteEuropean cultural education on how fundamentalist religion grows with colonialism could go hand in hand with the revival of pre colonial cultures that were erased by colonialism.
DeleteA religious person who can see where colonialism taught their region hate is a pretty independent person. That's what it takes for people to be free. It's not impossible but it's not exactly the easiest thing to explain.
Please spam this stuff somewhere else. It is OT and propagandistic and irrelevant to our discussion.
DeleteI’ll spam where I want to spam.
Delete8:53
DeleteI don't consider this an invitation for your spam
I research what I say
7:53 and 8:53 are gatekeeping whiners
DeleteBob's readers have his opinion that the random comment section of the blog belongs to them
DeleteWhat if French people actually learned another language rather than ramming their own down everyone's throat
DeleteFrench was the language of diplomacy for most of France’s existence. It is spoken as an official language in more countries in the world than any other language. Their attitude is not unreasonable.
DeleteFrench was violently imposed on the world through colonialism and violence
DeleteThe French were murdering people in Vietnam and Africa and now they want to complain about other people being rowdy
DeleteFrench was also imposed by literature and diplomacy and culture and by Napoleon who brought both positive and negative change. How many people did the Chinese murder in Vietnam, how many Africans murdered each other? Why is French still spoken in Africa after all that killing? Are things perhaps more complex than your simple-minded view?
DeleteYou got caught ignoring colonialism take the L
DeleteIf you studied colonialism you'd understand what to do about radical fundamentalists too
DeleteFrench colonialism was based on the idea people couldn't compare to France in civilization, while they raped Africa
DeleteCanada is killing disabled people and France is attacking Muslims. White people are gradually going crazy and we'll see more from people like Trump even when he's gone
DeleteLet's not pretend like name dropping France and Germany and Canada doesn't give arguments a certain sophistication.
DeleteI think that's a subtle way to telegraph class to people and it's snobby to know a lot about French culture. Whatever lovely things to say about France there are are dwarfed by the value of the performative name dropping it is to mention a white country.
Why not study Mexican history? Why is only France associated with fancy things?
Somerby spent a lot of time discussing Al Sharpton's role in the Tawana Brawley rape case. He didn't like Sharpton much then, but apparently Sharpton has been rehabilitated now that he is singing Somerby's song.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
Sharpton was wrong then. Now he’s right.
DeleteMaybe he’s wrong now too.
DeleteSomerby says Biden is AWOL but of course he is not. Then Somerby says:
ReplyDelete"Black residents seem to be increasingly angry, and whatever the merits of granting a shot at asylum to good decent people, it isn't real hard to see why."
This idea that black voters are abandoning the Democrats comes up during every election. Sharpton doesn't speak for black voters, so one guy's opinion is not exactly evidence of anything. But it is telling that Somerby is spouting Republican talking points here, in the guise of talking about the border.
Abbott has sent over 100,000 migrants from TX to large cities that are unprepared to deal with them. THAT is what is stressing the Democratic mayors, not immigration and not border policy. This is a Republican stunt, it is not legal and not humane. Cities are asking for relief because they do not have systems in place to cope with the influx. That is a Republican/Abbott problem, not an immigrant problem. Yes, we should deal with it, but it doesn't mean that black people must hate brown migrants and worry about being replaced or forgotten or whatever their fears are. Stoking hate is what Republicans do. Somerby apparently is joining them, blatantly and obviously. Thank God most Democrats do not react the way he and Sharpton are doing.
Very well said. However Bob is jumping on one comment here ( expect to see this in the next six or seven of his posts) as he loves to do. It’s doubtful Bob and Sharpton view is issue in the same way.
DeleteIf a group of large Northern cities can't handle 100,000 migrants, how in world can a few small towns near the border cope with that horde? They can't.
DeleteOur media haven't covered the problems migrants are causing in these small towns, so you didn't know about it. Are our media more concerned with problems in liberal cities than they are with problems in small conservative towns? Yes, they are.
There has been a big upsurge in illegal immigration during the Biden administration.
Deletehttps://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics
That's just a fact. You can believe it, or not.
Yes, and it has not been constant through the administration but has waxed and waned, and nothing Biden has done has caused the changes at the border. It is the result of events in the countries that these migrants are coming from.
DeleteShould Los Angeles base its weather planning on this week's rainstorms or should it consider the average amount of rainfall? Do we make national immigration policy based on a temporary influx having nothing to do with our nation?
Meanwhile, Sharpton's complaint is not due to increased migration at the border but due to the TX (Republican) stunt of sending migrants on buses and planes to Democratic cities, to cause trouble with their budgets and planning.
David, those small towns do not "cope" with the migrants. There is a network of immigration facilities and non-profit organizations that deal with the migrants, including relocation to areas prepared to help them. These facilities do not exist in the large blue cities that are nowhere near borders.
DeleteIt troubles me that you (1) have no imagination to picture what happens to migrants, (2) have never seen a movie about the migrant experience, (3) have made no effort to find out what happens when someone crosses the border by reading on the internet. Your assumptions may seem logical to you, but that doesn't make them reality.
With the recent stunt of sending militas and truck convoys to those border towns, residents there are complaining and saying things like "I never felt unsafe until these guys arrived." That is another mess the Republicans are stirring up at the border, sending right wing nutcase tourists to small towns with no facilities for them. Just like the truck convoy that blocked traffic in DC and then went away.
“”Meanwhile, Sharpton's complaint is not due to increased migration at the border but due to the TX (Republican) stunt of sending migrants on buses and planes to Democratic cities, to cause trouble with their budgets and planning.”
DeleteYou know…sanctuary cities.
Look at Cecelia gloat.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:50pm, look at you deflecting.
DeleteThe federal government can cut a check and take care of homelessness and asylum needs, and the media have an interest in spinning the truth away from that
DeleteSomeone told Americans the government is messing everything up and is supposed to fix it for free with an app. It's really annoying to live here.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:55pm, society in general has an interest in spinning away from that.
DeleteIt's only a specific political school that says government spending is evil
DeleteTip for Cecelia
DeletePeople will take you much more seriously if you can separate what you think should be true with what actually is true. You have to separate your own personal ideology from the facts. Just saying the government shouldn't spend money on this or that isn't a fact it's just your ideology. It pretty much can't be a fact.
Let yourself say it, there are things you don't know. There are things you don't know how afraid of to be. Fear and ignorance scare you more than anyone on the earth.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:27pm, it’s not the dawn of mankind. Sharpton and I know that you’re full of it.
DeleteTime to put the bottle away Cecelia.
DeleteSharpton and Cecelia both know the USA can more than afford to care for the citizens AND immigrants.
DeleteDon't get caught up in their game.
DeleteMoonbats want to be cared for. By the USA.
How quaint.
Hark!
DeleteWhat's that I hear?
The familiar sounds of small-government, free-market libertarians begging Daddy Government to please come save them?
Tis forever more...
Didn't the caring USA ask you to take your meds every day, moonbat?
DeleteThe House of Representatives has declined to impeach Alejandro Mayorkas.
ReplyDelete"Democrats in disarray" headline in 3...2...1...
DeleteSomerby complained that Biden hasn’t addressed the nation about border problems. Well, now he has, explaining how Trump blew up the bipartisan agreement because he wants to campaign on border issues. Hope this is what Somerby wanted, but it suggests Biden is not avoiding speaking as Somerby complained.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't really a border bill. Most of it went to funding never ending wars abroad that have nothing to do with the border or American citizens.
DeleteThere was no war in Ukraine before Russia attacked and no war in Gaza before Hamas attacked, so these are obviously not never-ending wars but newly begun ones. It was definitely a border bill in which Republicans got everything they asked for. Trump killed it to help out Putin and to stop the border problems from being addressed, so he can campaign on them. Tell the truth — others here already know.
DeleteRepublicans love Putin, because he’s a murderous dictator who stands up for traditional Christian values, while also poisoning his enemies. Republicans see a like-minded individual.
Delete"there was no war in Gaza"
DeleteThis is an interesting history of Gaza. You seen like an expert!
Are you going to sit here and pretend Gaza was left alone for years and couldn't get it together?
DeleteIt wasn't really a bill designed to allay the fears Republicans have about the border, because Republicans don't really care about the border.
DeleteI think there’s only one thing that everyone here can agree upon: The comment section sucks!
ReplyDeleteWhy are you so negative
DeleteAlso, the blog sucks.
DeleteSo edgy
DeleteWe can also all agree that the Right never makes good faith arguments.
DeleteWould anybody read Bob anymore if it wasn’t for the comment section?
DeleteWe can all agree 2024 Democrats are neocons that are further right than 2002 Republicans. Democrats are Republicans now. Bill Kristol and John Bolton are YUGE fans!
Delete