FRIDAY, MAY 18, 2018
It only takes one: On our daily and nightly cable entertainment spectacles, we liberals get to imagine the joy of seeing The Others on trial.
We also get to laugh about the foolishness of Don and Rudy's attacks. We do this because we may be slightly dumb. Consider part of what's happening.
We love to think about the way Manafort will spend the rest of his life in prison. Have we ever heard about the way a jury works?
If one juror decides the whole trial is a witch hunt driven by fake news from traitors within the deep state, then no conviction can be obtained. We have to assume that this is part of the strategy behind the ongoing attacks from twin terrors Don and Rudy.
Meanwhile, there was the New York Times yesterday, treating Rudy's latest claims like gospel. By night, the same reporters are on TV, helping our programs along.
Still and all, this is good entertainment. Nicolle laughs and laughs for an hour each day. Our next post will concern our new tribal love for her.
Also this: Coming soon to your TV machine, Real Barristers of Cable News!
Top-flight behind-the-scenes cable news fun! We'd say it works best at Bravo!
"We do this because we may be slightly dumb."
ReplyDeleteNo, we laugh because they are slightly dumb.
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Delete"We do this because we may be slightly dumb"
ReplyDeleteIt's been a while since I've seen a liberal who was only slightly dumb (present company excluded). A vast majority of you are outright zombies.
There brains (along with anything else of value) was stolen by Trump and given to the elites.
DeleteHo hum, just another day under Republican rule.
'What Happened', a recent book, explains how smart we are. And how free of blame we are for the place we find ourselves.
ReplyDeleteAnd it offers proof that we are 50% less racist than Trump voters.
WORD
Hillary was smart enough to put her name on her book. It is called "What Happened," by Hillary Clinton.
DeleteWhat exactly does Somerby mean when he talks about attacks? Is he talking about efforts to investigate and try wrongdoers? That isn't an attack -- it is justice and it is how our system operates. Is he talking about Trump's attacks on his own people? Is he talking about the Russian attacks on our political system?
ReplyDeleteSadly, no. He thinks the efforts to uncover what happened and bring traitors to justice are "attacks". This reveals a whole lot about who Somerby is these days. And it ain't pretty.
Somerby asks whether we know how juries work. Does he?
ReplyDeleteHe seems to think that a single biased juror can prevent justice. That is incorrect. First voir dire, during which attorneys for both sides and the judge ask prospective jurors about their attitudes, beliefs and opinions, is intended to prevent someone prejudiced and incapable of evaluating evidence from joining the jury in the first place. Second, if someone expresses bias during the trial, other jurors can complain and that person will be examined by the judge and can be removed. Third, the point of evidence is to convince even people with prior opinions that an individual is guilty. If there is insufficient evidence to do that, Mueller won't bring a case. Fourth, the grand jury has already reviewed evidence and determined it is sufficient to bring an indictment, and it too could have had Trump supporters on it, people who consider the process a witch hunt. Fifth, when someone is part of the legal procedures, they are less likely to consider them biased because they are involved and consider themselves to be fair. Sixth, if a hung jury results, Mueller will retry these people. He wouldn't have prosecuted them in the first place if he didn't consider them guilty.
So, despite Somerby's pessimism, these guys are going down. People may have some belief in Trump's witch hunt accusations but they don't feel the same toward Manafort or Page or Flynn. There will be considerably evidence and it will be convincing, especially if conservatives are actually the rational Others, differing in their views because they are reasonable people who simply have a different perspective on life.
And why couldn't it as easily go the other way? A jury full of disappointed Hillary and Bernie supporters who find Trump despicable? For the same reasons. Our jury system is designed to prevent bias from resulting in unfair decisions.
But bravo to Somerby for trying to undermine public faith in our justice system. We truly do need to protect our institutions from fascist attack, even when it comes from the lips of an aging pseudo-liberal like Somerby.
Cable hosts are entertainers and they may spend air time laughing, but we viewers are not laughing at all. We have not laughed since the election. We are sickened by what happened and we watch ongoing developments in horror, anger and despair. There is nothing funny about any of this to anyone who is liberal. We feel sad.
ReplyDeleteBill Gates yesterday was shown in an interview describing how Donald Trump twice asked him about the difference between HPV and HIV, and talked about setting up a commission to prevent vaccines (on RFK Jr's advice). Is this funny? Not to those with HIV. Not to those with children who might benefit from vaccines. Not to those who watch measles and whooping cough make a comeback and children die from preventable diseases. Not to anyone who lived through the 80s when HIV wiped out so many fine people.
Maybe Somerby finds all this funny because he is a comedian, or maybe he finds it funny because he is a jerk, and maybe he thinks everyone else is laughing because he doesn't know any liberals any more. Maybe he confuses the laughter of pundits who won't increase their viewership by scowling with the laughter of everyday people, liberals who are working hard to minimize the damage being done in real lives on the ground.
Somerby is not funny either. He is offensive these days.
Anonymous on 5/18/18 @1:49P: I'll grant you that TDH can get tiresome: he only has a couple of hobbyhorses, and those he rides hard. But it's not like his writing is obscure. What does he mean he talks about attacks? He told you exactly what he meant in the first sentence of the second paragraph: "Don and Rudy's attacks" on our entire system of government. To what end? TDH tells you that too: to convince enough people that the government is illegitimate so as to ensure at least one nullifier on any jury that Trump faces.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the investigators who are launching attacks. it's the investigated who are attacking the system set up to investigate. Get it now?
Your comments reveals a whole lot about what ain't pretty, but it's not TDH's claims.
Is it a fine line between laughing and debunking? Are they mutually exclusive?
DeleteAre you willfully excessively literal?
To clarify, some questions express no curiosity.
Deadrat, this article is headlined "Why the attacks go on and on" and then Somerby says: "we liberals get to imagine the joy of seeing The Others on trial.
DeleteThe first thing he mentions is how we liberals are enjoying what he has been calling The Chase, which has sucked all the oxygen from the room because of our single-minded pursuit of Trump. By juxtapositioning his first mention of attacks and the joy of putting The Others on trial, he makes clear the reference back to the attacks that go on and on.
He then segues to talk about Don and Rudy's attacks. So attack refers to both liberal behavior and the specific attacks by Trump and his supporters on the Mueller investigation. An implied similarity (aka false equivalency) of the kind Somerby loves to introduce for rhetorical purposes. It is OK if you missed it. Somerby doesn't take responsibility for saying many things directly, and this one is implied, but he has been chiding us for our attacks for months now.
Then he talks about the perversion of the justice system by Don and Rudy's efforts. I read this as him thinking we are laughing while Trump will go free because we are too stupid to understand that Don and Rudy's so-called attacks will sway juries. So I explained why they won't.
What you don't get is that this post needs to be read in the context of Somerby's ongoing criticism of liberals and their efforts to bring Trump to justice.
Of course the investigators are not launching attacks. We don't speak of criminal investigations as police attacks on criminals (to the extent that we have faith in protections of individual rights). But if you don't think of Trump as a criminal, then the liberal efforts to bring him to justice may appear to be a partisan political attack on Trump. Somerby has taken that approach repeatedly over past weeks, such as when he asserted Roy Moore's innocence. He has complained that liberals are focused only on taking down Trump, on The Chase, and are ignoring all other issues (as if Trump were not the source of nearly all issue-related problems these days).
Clearly this post can be read different ways. There is no need for you to abuse me over that. I have justification for my reading that is based on the things Somerby has written since Trump's election. I stand by it. That Somerby sees Trump as a politician under partisan attack is pretty clear and it isn't anything I've heard any liberal I know say. Pretending to be liberal when he is not is dirty pool. You can defend Somerby, but I think he is no friend to liberals if he ever was one, whatever his feelings about Al Gore.
2:55 you have to get yourself together girl. You a mess.
Delete"it's not like his writing is obscure"
DeleteExcept when he says "we liberals." He uses the word "we" to refer to himself, so it is laughable when he includes himself in any group called "liberal."
Anonymous on May 18, 2018 at 2:55 PM,
DeleteThis is argumentation (room 12A). If you want abuse, you’ll have to go back to the room along the corridor.
TDH has long frowned on indulging in glee at the misfortune of those we dislike, even if that misfortune has been brought on by the sufferers’ own malfeasance. Schadenfreude isn’t an attack; it’s an attitude.
You write
By juxtapositioning his first mention of attacks and the joy of putting The Others on trial, he makes clear the reference back to the attacks that go on and on.
Even supposing that you mean juxtaposing, this hardly parses in English. You continue
So attack refers to both liberal behavior and the specific attacks by Trump and his supporters on the Mueller investigation.
Well, no. Because English words have meanings, and an attack requires aggression. By the way, I immensely enjoyed the condescension (“It is OK if you missed it.”) from somebody who can’t tell his own inferences from an author’s implications. Well played! But as an exercise, you should go back and find out where TDH “asserted Roy Moore’s innocence.” If you re-read his entries (for comprehension, this time), you won’t be able to do it.
I’ll agree that this post (or any other) can be read different ways. But some of those ways aren’t reasonable. I’ll also agree that you think you’re justified in your reading, and I’m fairly sure that you’ll stand by your position no matter what I say. I wish twere otherwise, but I’ll try to carry on nonetheless.
Somerby is a jeremiah. He holds liberals (particularly “liberal” journalists) to impossibly high standards. It is OK if you missed that. (Oh, snap! Did you see what I did there?)
On a related note, I take it that your explanation of why the Trump attacks won’t sway juries is to be found here: May 18, 2018 at 1:59 PM. I can’t tell for sure because you’ve failed to have the common courtesy of adopting a nym. In any case, I found that essay adorable, in a Schoolhouse Rock kind of way. You may want to check the outcome of the 2016 federal case against the occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Some of the participants had pleaded guilty; some of the defendants essentially confessed on the stand. (Spoiler alert: all seven defendants were acquitted.)
@deadrat: I'm not the anon you're talking about, but I appreciate your defense of Somerby. You say he holds liberals to impossibly high standards. Impossible standards are by definition not possible, thus that is unfair of him. Liberals, like the conservatives he is so solicitous of, are only human. His blogging mimics the tone and argumentation of Breitbart and Daily Caller, and have the effect of discouraging or worse undermining liberal causes. And Somerby never actually promotes any liberal cause. His so-called "liberalism" is not discoverable in his blogging over the past 10 years at least.
DeleteAnd it's one thing to hold someone to a standard and quite another to put them down calling them "stupid, lazy, immoral" and other such witless epithets.
deadrat -- I agree with much of your comment. However I do not think that Somerby's standards for the liberal media are impossibly high. During Bob's (and my) youth, media like the New York Times exceeded Bob's standards. The major news shows on NBC, CBS and ABC met Bob's standards.
DeleteDeadrat, OJ was acquitted too but other murderers have still been convicted. Trump and his accomplices won't be tried in red small towns.
DeleteI have explained before about doxxing and cyberstalking. Too much hostility here. Last time I posted using a nym it took a short time to be called names, so no thanks. Focus on the words not the names. It shouldn't matter who is speaking.
Hey David, did you get your "I {heart} Mo Brooks" bumper sticker yet?
DeleteAnonymous May 18, 2018 at 9:54 PM,
DeleteYes, OJ was acquitted, but not through jury nullification, so I don’t see the relevance. And “red small towns”? Where do you think the Malheur case was tried?
I’m afraid I missed your explanation of “doxxing [sic] and cyberstalking,” but I’m also afraid you don’t understand how those things work. I’m not asking for your identity; I’m asking for an identifier tied only to your comments here. Nym is short for pseudonym. No one could trace a pseudonym without hacking the blogspot software or the blogspot servers, and if that happened, posting as Anonymous wouldn’t save you. Ditto for being called names.
I do focus on the words; it’s just that there are a lot of Anonymi posting words.
Do you really find much hostility here? I find it’s mostly trolls like Mao, commercials for spell casters, and people whining about Somerby’s refusal to write the blog the way they want. But then I don’t mind being called names that would hurt my feelings if I had any.
Hostility, yes. I was called a bitch in the Gore oppo thread @2:25. I get called similar stuff daily.
DeleteWhen you use a consistent nym, people search on it across websites, collect demo hints and put them together to figure out who you are so they can threaten you. It happened to me during the 2098 primaries. So I am careful now.
You have to know about gamergate. For me, I innocently commented about memory research and attracted Curio, who ultimately fired shots into someone's home and was put in jail. She contacted my employer and told them I was a satanist child molester. For posting what every psychologist knows about memory. So I am careful now. You really shouldn't pressure women to be more visible on the internet when the environment isn't benign for us.
Anonymous on May 18, 2018 at 9:18 PM
DeleteWhy are impossible standards “unfair”? Why shouldn’t they serve as goals to strive for?
TDH doesn’t talk about conservatives much, except as the subject of reporting that he finds substandard.
When TDH opines that journalists ought not comment on the propensity of Roy Moore (a.k.a. the Gadsden Mall Creeper) to date women (and marry one!) 14 years his junior, do you think he is being “solicitous” of Roy Moore?
Do you really think that TDH is similar in ‘tone and argumentation” to Bretibart? Have you read much Breitbart?
Do you have any evidence that TDH undermines liberal causes? Who do you think is reading this blog assiduously? Besides Mao and DAinCA, I mean.
Does TDH call people immoral? Please forgive me for not looking through all the google results, but the word seems to be more popular with his commenters. And if journalists are lazy — and many seem to be bone so — why shouldn’t TDH point that out?
The first Malheur trial was in Portland, 300 miles from the standoff. Many of the jurors were from outside Portland. One was accused of bias and removed during the trial.
DeleteYou may think of Oregon as a blue state but it has a red-blue split between urban and rural areas. So does California, a very blue state. Portland's motto is Keep Portland Weird, so you may find anti government sentiment coming from right and left there. Trump's guys won't be tried there.
Anonymous on May 19, 2018 at 12:02 AM,
DeleteWhen you use a consistent nym
Don’t. Use. A. Consistent. Nym. (He said through gritted teeth.) Or at least one not associated with sites that identify who you really are. I know all about gamergate, and the targets were well-known in the community and used their real names and real images. Suppose you called yourself (here and only here) AnnieMouse at url www.google.com. What do you suppose anyone could do?
I’m sorry you were threatened during the 2098 primaries. Damn! You will have thought they would have fixed things by then.
I don’t pressure women to be more visible on the internet. Nothing I’ve asked you to do requires identifying anything about you, including your sex. Which, by the way, I still don’t know and wouldn’t know even if you commented under the name AnnieMouse.
Do what makes you comfortable. You certainly don’t need my permission to do that. If you insist on Anonymous, I may bitch about it, but I promise never to call you one.
I am doing what makes me comfortable.
DeleteThe first Malheur trial was in Portland
DeleteThanks for making my point for me. You think maybe Trumpers can get their trials moved out of Washington, DC? How far do you think they'd have to go to get a Portland jury?
I am doing what makes me comfortable.
No excuse for rudeness and ignorance.
"the joy of seeing The Others on trial."
ReplyDeleteIn a rational assessment of the matter, we would say that it is not with "joy" but with sadness and grim determination that Trump and his lawbreaking minions receive the punishment they deserve for any crimes committed. Somerby is blurring lines by calling the Trump cabal "The Others", as if they were the same as the great unwashed masses of "other" voters who have thrown in their lot with Trump, those same voters that Somerby admonishes us to respect.
Thus, in Somerby's twisted world view, pushing back against political elites who are looting the country for personal gains and who very well may have colluded with foreign powers to rig an election becomes identical with disrespecting poor put-upon Republican voters.
Poppycock.
If the guilty are tried, I guess I hope they are found guilty. What really matters is these Trump freaks are going to ruin the Country and they must be stopped.,Bob’s sadism is largely a projection of his own angry and hateful side.
ReplyDeleteGreg,
DeleteBob’s sadism is largely a projection of his own angry and hateful side.
Impressive mind reading. Can you figure out what I’m thinking right now?
Yeah, sure, Bob. Liberals are only interested in the Mueller probe for pure partisan entertainment.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Mueller probe is just a witch hunt.
Come on, Bob. Say it. You've been implying it for months.
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