BREAKING: A remarkable statement in the Times!

MONDAY, AUGUST 6, 2018

Shear and Schmidt stampede:
On the front page of today's New York Times, Michael Shear and Michael Schmidt report on Donald J. Trump's recent statements about the meeting in Trump Tower with the Russkie lawyer.

We expect to discuss that meeting at length this week. For today, we'll only call attention to the remarkable highlighted statement:
SHEAR AND SCHMIDT (8/6/18): While the president tried again on Sunday to portray the Trump Tower meeting as routine, it is being examined as part of Mr. Mueller’s investigation into whether Mr. Trump’s campaign conspired with the Russians to undermine Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

It is illegal for a campaign to accept help from a foreign individual or government. The president and his son have maintained that the campaign did not ultimately receive any damaging materials about Mrs. Clinton as a result of the meeting. But some legal experts contend that by simply sitting for the meeting, Donald Trump Jr. broke the law.
"It is illegal for a campaign to accept help from a foreign individual or government?"

Do we really think that's true? Consider:

If the "help" in question takes the form of information, here's what the Times scribes have said:

It's illegal for a campaign to accept information from a foreign individual.

Could any sane person believe that? And by the way, just while we're at it—isn't that what Hillary did?

Alas! When we humans start killing the pig, our attention to detail goes by the board. Gathering in our tribal groups, we start making ridiculous statements—and everyone swears they make sense.

Over the July 29 weekend, we were struck by a similar statement by The Atlantic's Natasha Bertrand. Now the statement appears in a front-page report in the New York Times, waved into print by an unnamed editor.

Is it illegal for a campaign, or a candidate, to accept information from a foreign individual? Can any sane person really believe that? And isn't that what Hillary Clinton, perfectly sensibly, did?

More to come, all week.

51 comments:

  1. "Could any sane person believe that?"

    No, but lib-zombies are neither sane nor persons.

    All they hear is: "WE HATE THE DONALD", and then they turn and start stumbling blindly towards the sound...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trump is a liar and a thief.
      And Putin's bitch.

      Delete
    2. 10:57,
      Your deep, deep love for Establishment Elites is duly noted.

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  2. In order for today's post to make any sense, you have to ignore completely that Russia hacked the DNC computer and Hillary's campaign manager's personal accounts and made that information public via Wikileaks. You have to ignore that Russia created fake accounts on Facebook and other social media in order to help Donald Trump's election. You have to ignore that the computers of several state election officials were hacked by Russia. You have to ignore that money was funneled through the NRA into various Republican campaigns. You have to ignore the many and various ways in which Russia provided help to Trump's campaign.

    Without all of this, you might give the benefit of the doubt to this particular meeting, believing that perhaps nothing of value was provided to Trump's campaign and nothing of importance to it was discussed. But we DO know about this other stuff. We know about Trump's subsequent efforts to remove sanctions, the quid pro quo. We know about his coordination with Russia on timing of release of the emails. We know about his speeches where he alluded to the hacked emails. We have a much bigger context than the one Somerby wants to restrict us to here.

    So, who is Somerby trying to fool with this stuff? Only excessive literalism and a VERY restricted focus can make his complaint even remotely plausible. And why should we make that effort on behalf of the wrongdoers in Trump's entourage? Do they even deserve that kind of mental gymnastics? Why?

    For those who wonder why I think Somerby supports Trump, today's post is exhibit A. Here he wants us to keep a very open mind about what happened in that meeting, to the point of forgetting everything else we KNOW about what happened during the election. He wants us to visualize the possibility of innocence for these Republican wrongdoers and their Russian friends. That strikes me as supporting Trump, not furthering the interests of liberals as we try to figure out what happened in 2016 and correct the injustices, which were not to Trump's people but to Hillary, her campaign, and especially her numerous voters.

    It is not railroading these guys to consider what happened in the context of all that is known about that meeting. That is what the jury will do when they are finally brought to justice. Fairness doesn't require blindness.

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    1. anon 11:28 - As far as I can tell, the meeting with the Russians in the restaurant was meaningless. If a law was broken, please cite the statute or legal authority that shows it. That the "Russians" or some agent of the Russian government sent fake news on facebook, weren't there enough other domestic sources doing the same thing? My impression is that this was marginal. As far as the hacked emails, assuming Russian guilt, that may have impacted the election (like a lot of other things) - but the evidence of Trump campaign complicity that you cite is circumstantial, and I would say weak circumstantial evidence. One thing that more or less gets ignored now is the bizarre ineptitude that led to the DNC hack. Someone (Russians presumably) sent a phishing email to Podesta. Charles Delavan, an aide of Podesta, realized it was a phishing email and forwarded it to a DNC computer technician stating "This is a legitimate email." There was a typo - he meant to say "this is an illegitimate email." On top of that, the FBI discovered the hack, but instead of sending a top level team to raise the alarm with the DNC, an FBI agent named Adrian Hawkins called the DNC. He was transferred to the IT help desk and spoke to a DNC employee named Yared Tamene. Hawkins told Tamene that a group called "Dukes" had hacked the DNC network. Tamene thought the call probably was a prank. He googled "Dukes" and came up with nothing. Hawkins tried to call Tamene several more times, but Tamene never took the calls. The result of the above screw ups, was that the hackers had months to roam thru the DNC accounts. Another thing is the way the press treated the revelation of the emails - out of tens of thousands, there were a few that put the DNC in a bad light - some indicated favoritism of Clinton over Sanders - but big deal. There was no critical discussion (just like with this whole 'Russian' investigation) - that they had been illegally hacked, that we didn't know what the RNC's emails contained, that there should be some slack for what people say to each other in private, that in context there was nothing very meaningful in the emails etc. Maybe Mueller will come up with some evidence that Trump and the Russians plotted out the publication of the emails together somehow, but we don't know that. There were probably dozens of reasons that were deciding factors in Clinton's loss. But I don't think the obsession with the 'chase' is healthy or smart. And your idea that TDH is a 'Trump supporter' is silly. I can't stand Trump, but I still can be skeptical about why this restaurant meeting is of significant importance. TDH absolutely is not "pro-Trump." You are off the rails on that point. The way to solve the Trump problem is to vote him out of office. Impeachment (unlikely), aside from any other possible adverse consequences, will lead to President Pence - maybe worse than Trump.

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    2. If we want to read what it says at conservative websites, we can go there ourselves. You are repeating this stuff like a good little parrot.

      Unclear what meeting you are referring to, but the one causing the furor was at Trump Tower, not in a restaurant.

      Hacking someone is illegal -- doesn't matter how you did it. The emails were stolen property.

      If you refuse to believe anything reported in the news, you will never have to change your mind about Trump's guilt and whether this is a big deal or not. You can call that skepticism, but the word doesn't refer to refusing to accept evidence or change one's mind.

      It is convenient to decide that the so-called chase is unimportant, so you can ignore it. That doesn't mean these guys aren't going to jail, Trump included. They broke laws. You can minimize that but it doesn't change any facts of this situation that you don't care about it.

      Pence is as involved in this wrongdoing as anyone else. He will go down if they do. There isn't going to be any President Pence. In a fair world, we would have President Hillary Clinton, but we may have to settle for whichever Democrat wins in 2020 or President Speaker of the House (who will not be Ryan).

      That's why it is so important that Democrats vote in these midterms.

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    3. "The emails were stolen property"

      Yeah, like all those marbles taken from inside your head by your dembot management.

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    4. anon - 3:48 - it's a slow day at work, so I'll respond point by point.
      1. I'm not repeating anything seen by me on any right wing website. Good, bad or indifferent, stating my own views.
      2.I thought the meeting was in a restaurant - maybe one in the Trump Tower - if not, so what?
      3. I believe the hacking was illegal. Just is weird how it came about, thru massive ineptitude.
      4. Who said I don't believe anything reported in the news? I happen to believe a lot of what is reported in the news. Just I am skeptical about a certain portion of it. I am a fan of being skeptical - otherwise, you will wind up being a sap a lot of times.
      5. I'll be surprised if Trump goes to jail, or Pence, or if Trump gets impeached. I think all this stuff might help him more than hurt him. You say "they broke laws.." I'm a lawyer. What laws? what is the evidence? what are the relevant precedents?
      6. I hope there won't be a President Pence - but your giving an opinion that he too will 'go down' is without any apparent evidence - so your opinion doesn't carry any weight.
      7. Agreed, Dems should vote in the mid-term elections.

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    5. I am not an attorney so I am not trained to cite precedents and laws. However, I can say that Mueller has already gained guilty pleas from 5 members of Trump's administration and campaign. He has indictments of many others, ranging from the 13 Russians involved in hacking to additional individuals engaged in obstruction of justice or lying to the investigation or failure to report contacts with Russia. Others, like Michael Cohen, have agreed to cooperate and will make pleas and be sentenced later on.

      What are some of the laws. Obstruction of justice. Perjury. Misuse of campaign funds/violation of campaign financing laws. Violation of the emoluments clause (once that case proceeds). These are the ones most likely already proven. The more tenuous ones include money laundering, income tax evasion (by Trump, not Manafort), extortion, bank fraud, sexual assault (alleged already by 26 women). Ultimately we may see some others: treason, conspiracy to commit election fraud, violation of the oath of office, corruption in the form of conspiracy to commit fraud by using government office for personal enrichment (not sure what that's called) and so on.

      Mueller is in the process of collecting the evidence and it will be presented when the investigation reaches the stage where prosecution has enough evidence to go forward (or it becomes clear Trump can be exonerated, if appropriate).

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    6. "2.I thought the meeting was in a restaurant - maybe one in the Trump Tower - if not, so what?"

      Because it makes you sound like a fucking idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? The rest of what you wrote was garbage as well.

      Delete
    7. Belvoir, whatever you say, genius.

      Delete
  3. This point about "information" isn't anything of value comes right out of the Republican talking points. Which Somerby seems to have memorized.

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  4. "And isn't that what Hillary Clinton, perfectly sensibly, did?"

    No

    And here we see Somerby employing that Republican tactic of Whataboutism.

    What about Hillary? Why isn't she being prosecuted for all the collusion she did with Russia? Who says that all the time...can it be Satan (just kidding, can it be Trump)?

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  5. "The president and his son have maintained that the campaign did not ultimately receive any damaging materials about Mrs. Clinton as a result of the meeting. "

    Who still believes anything this president says? They have lied about everything else, why not this too?

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  6. "Is it illegal for a campaign, or a candidate, to accept information from a foreign individual? Can any sane person really believe that? And isn't that what Hillary Clinton, perfectly sensibly, did?"

    First of all, Somerby morphs the Times' word "help" into the word of his choice, "information."

    Second, in what way did Clinton "accept information from a foreign individual?" Is Somerby talking about Steele working with FusionGPS? Did Clinton's campaign even know about that? Did John Podesta and Chelsea and her husband have a meeting with any foreign individual in "Clinton Towers" Chappaqua where said foreign individual had promised dirt on Clinton's opponent in the larger context of potential coordinated efforts to swing the election, in which emails stolen from Trump's campaign figured prominently? Is Hillary's behavior in any way similar to Trump's in this regard?

    Third, how can Somerby be sure that only "information" was exchanged between the Trump campaign and foreign individuals?

    Fourth, has Somerby read the relevant federal statutes involved here? They are quite detailed and prohibitive. It's one thing for him to encourage a different perspective on this matter, which is fine, but it's another to ridicule the perspective he is trying to counter, by claiming that "no sane person" would hold that view.

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    1. The DNC, not Clinton's campaign, provided additional funding to continue the intelligence gathering of what became the Steele dossier. The info was collected by a private opposition research firm, not any foreign government. The original work was begun by a Republican opponent of Trump's during the primaries and abandoned when Trump became the nominee. The DNC took over that effort.

      The situation with Trump is that the meeting was ostensibly with people who told him they were representing Putin and the Russian government, not simply "foreign individuals" (whatever that means).

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    2. We don't need Sherlock Holmes here folks.

      The other side—the accurate perspective—isn’t that complicated. In 2016, Vladimir Putin’s regime mounted information warfare against the United States, in part to help Trump become president. While this attack was underway, the Trump crew tried to collude covertly with Moscow, sought to set up a secret communications channel with Putin’s office, and repeatedly denied in public that this assault was happening, providing cover to the Russian operation. Trump and his lieutenants aligned themselves with and assisted a foreign adversary, as it was attacking the United States. The evidence is rock-solid: They committed . That is the scandal.

      https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/06/trump-russia-scandal-media/

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    3. The evidence is rock-solid: They committed a profound act of betrayal

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    4. mm - I think what you say is hardly convincing - a lot of loaded language, not objective. Trump is guilty of a profound betrayal of reason and the English language, and a lot of bad policies - but this Russia thing is being blown way out of proportion (though admittedly I don't know what, if anything. the Mueller investigation will eventually turn up). I grew up with libs being accused of being soft on Communism. Now it's portions of the left that are ramping up the scare.

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    5. AC/MA: I don't consider Robert Mueller, former CIA Directors and FBI Directors as well as every current intelligence agency responsible for national security in this country, "portions of the left".

      There is an ongoing serious criminal investigation by a Special Counsel only because Trump fired the FBI Director after asking him for his loyalty and suggesting he go easy on Flynn. And then Trump invited - or rather was instructed by Putin - to have his goons into the Oval Office to yuck it up, while Trump excluded American media yet Pravda was let in. This actually really happened and we all saw it with our own eyes.

      Trump just had a 2 hour plus one on one meeting with Putin in Helsinki and to this day no one knows what actually was discussed, not even his own DNI. This isn't in any way imagined or being ramped up by "the left". Everyone saw it.

      Watch this past weeks Bill Maher Real Time show and you will see Maher documents a steady real movement of extreme right wing in our country to sympathy with Russia as Russia moved from communist to authoritarian oligarchy. No one is imagining this. Ask Rand Paul - on his way back from Moscow. Ask Dana Rohrbacher. Ask Maria Bartina who she's been cultivating in this country.

      The left is not "ramping up" any kind of a scare comparable to the slander of the treasonous right wing attacks on the Democratic party for being soft on communism.

      It is only to look objectively at what is going on. It is an objective truth that Russia is actively spreading disinformation in the US to weaken opposition to the extreme right wing in this country but getting us fighting amongst each other.

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    6. Well said and so true. I just wish Maher hadn't help some of these people along on his show over the years.

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    7. mm - Russian disinformation is a drop in the bucket compared to all the domestic disinformation. We are well able to be divided and fight with each other without the Russians - I don't think they add that much. Clinton was investigated for years by special counsels over basically nothing. Once they get going, looking into every cranny, with almost unlimited resources, they can find some dirt, like they have so far. I will reserve judgment about what he finally comes up with - speculation isn't evidence. Throughout Europe, and Trump is a manifestation of it, there is a move toward quasi-fascism. Putin isn't necessary for any such threat here. I am not anxious for us going to war against Russia. The coverage in the Times, CNN, MNBC is highly reductionist, and is largely for ratings and readers.

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    8. We are already at war with Russia. They launched a cyber-attack on our electoral system and are now hacking our electrical grid. Trump is doing nothing about it. That is a violation of his oath of office.

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    9. AC/MA: Neither you nor I know what Mueller's final report will reveal. Contrary to how prior unending witch hunts into the Clintons conducted by extremely partisan prosecutors, Mueller has been behaving ethically and professionally, so aren't getting daily leaks about a blow job. I am not a lawyer, but I am a very good judge of character and my reading of Mueller is he is of the highest character. I trust him to do a thorough investigation as he has been doing, uncovering extraordinary and unprecedented coordination of Russian illegal interference in our elections leading directly to Putin and Russian Government agencies. I will accept his final report as the last word. If he says trump was clean, then I will accept that. And I have no doubt that if he reports conspiracy on the part of the trump camp working with the Russian government, that you will shrug and move the line again and again.

      Make no mistake about it, what we know already from the Mueller indictments shines a very bright light on the importance the Russian government placed on stopping Hillary Clinton. There's a very good reason for that. Hillary was no fool.

      I have no doubt also that if Hillary's campaign had committed even a small fraction of the offenses already found in trump's entourage of beggars and thieves, there would already be a guillotine erected on the Capitol Steps, donated by the NY Times.

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    10. Leroy's Last-Call MonitorAugust 7, 2018 at 11:10 PM

      "The coverage in the Times, CNN, MNBC is highly reductionist, and is largely for ratings and readers."

      And so that Somerby would have something to blog about.

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  7. Somerby has recently stated that the question of whether Trump is being blackmailed is a good one.

    http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2018/07/tribal-snapshots-antoinettes-before-fall.html?m=1

    But in terms of the Trump Tower meeting,...'nothing to see here. Just "information". You're not sane to suggest illegality here, including possible evidence of blackmail.

    And libs, Hillary did it too, exactly the same thing! Why can't you give Trump some slack?'

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  8. Reading through the FEC guidelines for candidates, it seems pretty clear that accepting anything of benefit to the campaign from a foreign national is prohibited. The rules specifically mention goods and services and suggests that these be valued at the going market rate. When these are coordinated on behalf of the candidate and paid for the candidate by a foreign national, they are not permitted. That meeting is an example of such coordination and the work was clearly paid for by Russia (Russian nationals).

    Whether information can be considered a campaign contribution, the guidelines (a FEC publication for candidates) specifically mentions consultants (who provide information) and communications (which consist of giving information to target individuals):

    "When a committee, group or individual pays for a communication that is coordinated with a campaign or a candidate, the communication is either an in-kind contribution or, in some limited cases, a coordinated party expenditure by a party committee."

    Communications consist of information. Opposition research is provided by firms that work specifically with campaigns to provide information. Pollsters and similar research firms provide information as their service/product and paying them would be a forbidden in-kind contribution for a foreign national.

    This idea that "information" is not a contribution is incorrect and happens to be a talking point of Republicans defending Trump. Somerby brags about reading websites and hearing what the other side says. That does't mean the garbage on the other side needs to be repeated here, especially when it is disinformation intended to confuse the base and maintain their support for the President. This is what I mean when I say Somerby is "carrying water" for conservatives.

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    1. Reading through the FEC guidelines for candidates, it seems pretty clear that accepting anything of benefit to the campaign from a foreign national is prohibited.

      Assuming that your dangling participle refers to yourself, what’s “pretty clear” is that you didn’t do much reading, at least not for comprehension. Go here:

      https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/volunteer-activity/

      <quote>
      An individual may volunteer personal services to a campaign without making a contribution as long as the individual is not compensated by anyone for the services. Volunteer activity is not reportable.

      Although he or she may not make contributions or expenditures (including advances of personal funds), an individual who is a foreign national may participate in campaign activities as an uncompensated volunteer.
      </quote>

      That participation cannot be management. Now, it’s possible that you can find evidence that Trump or his apparatchiks paid the Russians for the information. They’re that dumb. But it’s likely the Russians gleefully turned over the information gratis.

      I also think you’ll have hard time showing that the information counts as something of value under Title 18 of the United States Code, given the recent Supreme Court decision that let McDonnell and Menendez off the hook.

      You’ll also find that “a communication” in FEC parlance is public electioneering. Go here:

      https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/coordinated-communications/

      Perhaps you can torture turning over stolen documents into oppo research and the thieves into “consultants”, but without evidence that the Trumpsters contracted with the thieves for their work, I doubt it.

      Among the many things you’re missing here is that the Russians weren’t working for Trump. He was (and is) working for them.

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    2. @deadrat:

      Do you recall that the handover of dirt that was to occur at that Trump Tower meeting was suggested by the Russians? Their involvement was more active than you suggest. And since Manafort wasn't paid as campaign manager, does that mean he wasn't "working for" Trump?

      And, since you are interested in perusing federal statutes, take a look at Title 11: Federal Elections (§110.20):

      https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=3a5e171a3be3892bca705a60560e7645&mc=true&node=se11.1.110_120&rgn=div8

      For example, it says
      "(i) Participation by
      nationals in decisions involving election-related activities. A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee." (Again, Russian "individuals" suggested they meet about dirt at the Trump Tower meeting which Don Jr was eager to attend).

      And this "Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section." (This includes the phrase "thing of value.")

      Plenty of smart lawyers not named Dershowitz find a problem with what the Trump campaign did. And we have yet to learn definitively the full extent of the coordination that was going on between Trump and Russia.

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    3. Sorry, I didn’t mean to suggest that the Russians were passive observers. They asked for the meeting and offered dirt on HRC. That Trumpsters would attend the meeting instead of calling the FBI is reprehensible, but that doesn’t mean that 11USC110 applies. As far as we know, the Russians didn’t direct the Trump campaign to use the material.

      “Contribution and donations” means money. A “thing of value” is something you’d pay for. If the Trumpsters paid the Russians for the dirt or if the information could be appraised, then you might have a point.

      Did Manafort work for Trump even though he didn’t get paid? The answer to that question isn’t enlightening. I think what you want to know is 1) Since Manafort didn’t get paid, did his stint as campaign manager constitute an “in kind” donation to the campaign? and 2) If the answer to 1) is no, could a foreign national have been campaign manager?

      For a definitive answer to 1), you’ll have to ask a lawyer who specializes in election law, but I think you’re allowed to donate your own time and effort to a campaign without consequences from campaign finance law. In fact, I think this happens all the time. The answer to 2) is no, regardless of the answer to 1). Foreign nationals, paid or not, cannot act in a managerial capacity in a campaign for federal office.

      I imagine that even lawyers named Dershowitz find a problem with the Trump campaign collusion with Russia. That’s different from lawyers thinking that the Trump Tower meeting was a criminal act. And of course, we don’t know the full extent of the Trump-Russia collusion. I’ll bet the Trump campaign, the Republican Party, and all its organs were awash in Russian money. And that includes the NRA. I’m hoping Muller tracks it all down. I certainly don’t have court-worthy evidence.

      Delete
  9. Here is something that has been bothering me about Somerby for quite a while now. He uses the term The Other to refer to Trump supporters, conservatives, non-liberals, sometimes Southern voters. He uses a term that has historically been applied to the "treatment as other" (othering) of stigmatized groups, such as Jews in Nazi Germany or African Americans in the US. By reversing this terminology and making conservatives the supposedly stigmatized group (despite their support for the alt-right and hatred of immigrants), he pretends they are victims of the same discrimination and mistreatment as these other historical groups, whose extreme suffering is acknowledged. He thereby reduces their historical suffering to the level of Trump's current base, a staggering non-equivalence and minimization of what was suffered by Jews in the Holocaust and African Americans under slavery and Jim Crow. It gives Trump supporters status as an afflicted minority, as victims of mistreatment.

    Trump supporters are not "The Other" in any real meaning of the word -- they are in power for one thing and do not have the power relationship implied by the term. Second, they are self-defined. We haven't put them into any other group for our purposes. They have done that themselves, proudly in many cases.

    By defining Trump supporters as The Other, Somerby implies that we are engaging in discrimination and stigmatization whenever we oppose them, criticize them or use ridicule against them. He ties our hands by using our own value of inclusivity against us, suggesting that when we are critical of Trump we are violating our own norms. That is a clever reversal but fundamentally false because Somerby pretends they are being attacked for their traits as people and not their political views and actions and beliefs, suggesting that we are merely being discriminatory, not expressing our own contrary views, opposing them as a political party. And we take this at face value and feel guilty, believing that Somerby is actually liberal, and try to be more accepting, while conservatives laugh at us.

    Why would a supposed liberal play this kind of game here? It undermines the ability of liberals to criticize opposing views that deserve to be challenged, by linking that action to colonial othering, which is patently ridiculous. We shouldn't have fallen for it, but more importantly, why is Somerby working against liberal interests by doing this?

    This is another example of why I believe Somerby supports Trump and has been working to undermine liberal politics.

    https://newnarratives.wordpress.com/issue-2-the-other/other-and-othering-2/

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    1. Well said. I still like to think Bob is just borderline disturbed. Sometimes people, who with some justification feel they have been abused or not given fair credit by the left will jump over to the other side.

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    2. Please, please tell me you’re a troll because I don’t want to believe that you’re this clueless. TDH refers to liberals labeling Trump supporters as “The Other.”

      Here’s a blog entry where TDH deplores Paul Krugman for writing a column making “sweeping, unpleasant generalization about the white working class.” TDH says that “Those People The Others are alike in Krugman’s fiery column,” a column he calls “rather bad, remarkably unintelligent.” (Emphasis mine.)

      The day after that entry, TDH writes another, about a column by Nicholas Kristof asking people not to lump together all Trump voters. TDH notes, “[W]e were struck by the zeal with which we liberals will fight for the right to bomb The Others.” TDH is against that bombing campaign.

      Two days later TDH laments about letters to the editor about Kristof’s column

      Throw away our reams of self-praise, which we tend to juxtapose with the insults we aim at The Others. Instead of listening to our self-praise, look at the other things we say and do. In our view, those three letters to the Times help display The Way We Are.

      They help display how dumb we liberals (frequently) are. They help display how much we love to demonize and stereotype The Others, preferably in very large groups, millions of Them at a time.


      Are you really so clueless that you think that TDH labels Trumpters as “The Other”?

      Please, please, tell me that you’re just a troll.

      Delete
    3. @deadrat:

      "Are you really so clueless that you think that TDH labels Trumpters as “The Other”?"

      "Although she's very good at hiding it, Rachel is all about throwing The Others in jail. "

      Somerby says this in a post ...4 days ago!...about Paul Manafort

      (BREAKING: The judge is shielding the Manafort jury!

      THURSDAY, AUGUST 2, 2018

      http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2018/08/breaking-judge-is-shielding-manafort.html?m=1)

      Delete
    4. You really are that clueless, aren’t you? Damn.

      TDH can’t stand Rachel Maddow. In very particular, he can’t stand her schadenfreude in the contemplation of jail time for the people that she considers “The Others.”

      “The Others” are Rachel Maddow’s Others. Just like in the blog entries I cited, “The Others” were those of Krugman, Kristof, and liberal writers of letters to the editor of The New York Times.

      TDH thinks tribal labeling of “Us” and “Them” leads to liberals and progressives losing elections. He’s against treating political opponents as “The Other.”

      Do you really not get this?

      Delete
    5. Supporting Civil Rights for people of color, leads way more to liberals and progressives losing elections, than Somerby's "Others" schtick.
      Missing that point is the object of Somerby's (and the media's) game.

      Delete
    6. Somerby tells us that we liberals are othering Trump supporters. He is gaslighting us.

      Why would he do that? None of the reasons make him look good.

      Delete
  10. Nice job debunking Bob in this thread, he is truly round the bend. I guess Bob couldn't come up with that piece delegitimizing Mueller, but he comes close here.
    What a nutcase.

    ReplyDelete
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