THE DANIEL DALE EXPERIENCE: The struggle to be human!

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2018

Interlude—Krugman, Brooks and Dale:
In this morning's New York Times, Paul Krugman and David Brooks discuss the same human problem.

They come at the problem from different perspectives. We'd say each of the two is right.

We'll start with Krugman's column. It ends as shown right here:
KRUGMAN (11/13/18): In Trumpworld, which is now indistinguishable from G.O.P.world, good and bad are defined solely by whether the interests of The Leader are served. Thus, Trump attacks and insults our closest allies while praising brutal dictators who flatter him (and declares neo-Nazis “very fine people”).

[...]

As with so much about the current political scene, it’s essential to realize and acknowledge that this is not a symmetric, both-sides-do-it situation. If you say something along the lines of “truth and virtue are now defined by partisanship,” you’re actually enabling the bad guys, because only one party thinks that way.

Democrats, being human, sometimes have biased views and engage in motivated reasoning. But they haven’t abandoned the whole notion of objective facts and nonpolitical goodness; Republicans have.

What all of this means is that what’s going on in America right now isn’t politics as usual. It’s much more existential than that. You have to be truly delusional to see the Republicans’ response to their party’s midterm setback as anything but an attempted power grab by a would-be authoritarian movement, which rejects any opposition or even criticism as illegitimate. Our democracy is still very much in danger.
If memory serves, Trump didn't exactly actually say that neo-Nazia, or even some neo-Nazis, are "very fine people."

If memory serves, that isn't what this disordered man actually said. If memory serves, this is one of the many incidents over the past four or five year which have been embellished within our own liberal tribe to create more convincing partisan stories.

(In the several decades before our tribe began behaving this way, the mainstream press corps behaved this way in its deadly, relentless chase after Clinton, Gore and then Clinton. Children are dead all over Iraq because the press corps behaved this way, with the career liberal world maintaining a deadly silence or aggressively taking part.)

If our memory is right about this matter, that somewhat embellished quotation attributed to Trump emerged from the "motivated reasoning" in which, as Krugman says, Democrats, being human, do in fact take part. (For the record, we regard Trump as deeply disordered. We assume that he's some version of "mentally ill.")

Krugman's attribution may have a touch of motivated reasoning to it. That said, we'd say that Krugman's overall point is accurate, as long as we draw a distinction between the "Republicans" who serve as party, corporate and media leaders and the rank-and-file "Republicans" who are simply gullible enough to believe the things they get told.

Our tribe can be gullible too! That said, we agree with Krugman's point if we're speaking about "Republicans" on the leadership level. On the leadership level, we'd say the current "Republican" leadership is sunk in a moral and intellectual morass which doesn't exist, to anything like the same extent, among the "Democrats" who serve as party leaders.

Krugman describes a deeply dangerous moral and intellectual morass. At the start of his own column, David Brooks describes a truly great 1957 film—a film which explores this destructive aspect of our deeply flawed human nature.

We include the hard-copy headline. The column starts like this:
BROOKS (11/13/18): The Struggle to Stay Human Amid the Fight

I watched Stanley Kubrick’s masterpiece “Paths of Glory” last weekend,
prompted by all the World War I centenary tributes. Set in the trenches near the end of the war, it’s a movie about a man who tries to maintain his integrity and his faith in humanity amid the stupidity, futility, cruelty and cynicism of war. It’s weirdly relevant today.

Kirk Douglas plays a French colonel named Dax who lives in the trenches and leads his men in battle. Far away in the palaces, pampered French generals order his exhausted men to take a nearly impregnable German position. One general hopes the assault will help him score political points. Another is promised a promotion. Something like 4,000 men are expected to die or be wounded for these objectives.

When the assault catastrophically fails, the generals look for scapegoats and decide to execute three enlisted men, more or less chosen at random, for alleged cowardice.

Colonel Dax is finally overcome with disgust and explodes at one of the generals: “You’re a degenerate, sadistic old man. You can go to hell!”
Very few movies explore human behavior in the way Paths of Glory does. Amazingly, the film was made when Kubrick was just 28. It was only his second feature film. After adjusting for its moral and intellectual greatness, it's one of his least remembered.

In the column which starts with Paths of Glory, Brooks doesn't point the finger at one party over the other. That said, his column discusses the same moral degredation to which Krugman's column refers.

"Today we face no horrors equal to the Great War," Brooks writes, "but there is the same loss of faith in progress, the reality of endless political trench warfare, the paranoid melodrama, the specter that we are all being dehumanized amid the fight."

We agree with that formulation. From there, as he closes his column, Brooks describes a disgraceful scene from late in Paths of Glory, a scene which portrays one of the most deeply terrible ways we humans can forfeit our decency.

In our view, it's constructive to see this matter described and discussed in the party-specific way Krugman chooses, but also in this second, more general manner. In our view, the struggle to be human is currently being lost all around the media world, not just Over There.

What in the world does this have to do with The Daniel Dale Experience, the topic we began discussing last week?

Manifestly, Dale is a good, decent person—a person who's wholly sincere. But to what extent is that enough?

That's the question we're currently asking. At some point, we'll get back on track.

Still coming: Dale cites an obvious "lie"

44 comments:

  1. "If memory serves, Trump didn't exactly actually say that neo-Nazia, or even some neo-Nazis, are "very fine people.""

    Duh. I never liked liberal demigod Krugman - for his neoliberal/globalist bullshit, but now the fella has turned into just a garden variety dembot.

    So much for your zombie death-cult luminaries, Bob.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Take the name calling out of Mao's comment and all you have left is "Duh".

      Delete
    2. Commenters here are being more disciplined in not responding to bought and paid for morons like David and Mao.

      You can see the results as those morons' posts get more desperate and provocative, trying anything to elicit a response.





























      oof

      Delete
    3. Ignoring trolls doesn't work. They are reinforced by the sight of their own words on the screen. Responses to the trolls are intended for lurkers who may be interested in the topic at hand. Past elections have shown that it isn't a good idea to let falsehoods stand -- they need to be addressed immediately. Kerry learned that the hard way with the swiftboaters.

      We have an influx now of bots and trolls from Russia or paid by the billionaire right and they have created a noise machine specifically targeting left blogs, including this one. Those who take the time to counter the myths and garbage they attempt to spread are engaging in campaign activity just as much as those who support their candidates in other ways.

      Mao and David always identify themselves, so you can skip them easily and just go on to the next comment, if this truly bothers you.

      Delete
    4. Ignoring does work, you fundamentally misunderstand, one - they are reinforced by responses, two - no TDH reader is swayed by David or Mao.

      Continue to respond to them if ignoring them truly bothers you, just be aware that all you are accomplishing is enabling them.

      Delete
    5. They are reinforced by seeing their own words on the screen. Ignoring them doesn't work because it cannot remove that reinforcement.

      Delete
  2. Trump said that the unite-the-right rally included some very fine people who were not neo-nazis or white nationalists. But who attends a neo nazi/white nationaist rally who is not a sympathizer with those views? Do we call them the nazi-curious? His attempt to evade responsibility for praising the alt-right makes no sense in the context of what happened. That group containing "some very fine people" was chanting anti-Jewish slogans and "blood and soil" (a translation of a Nazi slogan). What did those very fine non-nazis think was happening?

    I don't buy today's attempt at both-siderism from Somerby. I believe today's post is a thinly veiled attempt to defend Trump for supporting the alt-right, in all of its Nazi-loving glory.

    Somerby ignores the current bombings and the attack on a synagogue in Pittsburgh committed in Trump's name by similar alt-right sympathizers, no doubt previously part of the bunch who are very fine people, even though marching with the alt-right. Somerby ignores the wink and nod Trump has given to those who think the Reich will rise again. Because Somerby thinks that if Trump doesn't actually sew a swastika onto his shirt, he is not really in favor of the bad stuff those in the alt-Reich support. Trump, who wouldn't visit the graves of those who died in WWI to contain German ambition. We are all thinking Trump was afraid the rain would damage his hair but perhaps he didn't want to dishonor his father's nationalism by honoring those who fought against it in WWI. Trump may have felt genuinely conflicted.

    As Tevye said "You are right...and you are right...[how can they both be right?]...you are right too." If everybody is right, then nobody is wrong. And that is Somerby's point. To make everybody right so Trump cannot be wrong. And there are very fine people everywhere, even the ones who mail bombs and kill Jews. Kumbaya Somerby kumbaya.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So, protesting the destruction of a historical monument makes one a Nazi-lover, tiresome dembot?

      Your cult made you believe this garbade, right?

      Delete
    2. What is a garbade?

      Delete
    3. Mao, this was a "unite the right" rally, not a save our statues rally.

      Delete
    4. So, should I assume that you're unaware that it was a protest against the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee?

      Or should I assume that you are spewing hatred, just like every other dembot, with no regard for truth whatsoever?

      Tsk. I think I'll go with the second assumption... The odds are, like, 100 to 1...

      Delete
    5. It was billed as "unite the right" and its purpose was to bring together all of the alt-right groups to show their strength. The statue may have been why Charlottesville was picked, or an excuse, but it was a coming out party showing alliance with the neo-Nazi right across Europe. Go look at their own literature and statements, Mao.

      Do you think people came from across the country just to protest removal of a town square statue of Lee in Charlottesville? Get real.

      Name calling doesn't make your assertions true or false -- they stand on their own. The name calling just makes you seem like a 12 year old with a lot of pent-up angst about the changes in your body. If you knew how silly you sound, you would dial it down.

      Delete
    6. Commenters here are being more disciplined in not responding to bought and paid for morons like David and Mao.

      You can see the results as those morons' posts get more desperate and provocative, trying anything to elicit a response.





























      oy vey

      Delete
    7. Stop adding all this extra space. It hurts those trying to read on a cell phone.

      Delete
    8. So, everyone who came to protest the removal of the monument produced literature and made statements - is this your story, dembot?

      Delete
    9. And by the way:
      "Do you think people came from across the country just to protest removal of a town square statue of Lee in Charlottesville?"

      Yes. I don't know about "from across the country", but I certainly do believe that people came to protest zombies attacking the statue.

      You may not realize it, dembot, but lib-zombie PC is extremely annoying. To most people. To very fine people.

      Delete
    10. Mao Cheng JiNovember 13, 2018 at 1:20 PM

      And by the way:

      "I am















      literally



















      as dumb















      as nails.







      KC and The Sunshine Band Please Don't Go

      Delete
    11. MY NAME IS VICKY AND I AM FROM SAN DIEGO CALIFORNIA,I WANT TO SHARE A
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      CASTER.AND I ALSO WANT TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITIES TO WARN THOSE OUT THERE
      READING FAKE TESTIMONY ON SOCIAL NETWORK.BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN SCAMMED BY SO
      MANY FAKE SPELL CASTER. BE CAREFUL HERE BECAUSE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR
      EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX OR LOVER BACK, TESTIMONIES OF MOST
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      CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME
      YOUR EX NAME ADDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER
      AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM WEST AFRICA UNTIL I SAW A POST ABOUT DR
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      AFTER 2 DAYS I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR SO I SAID LET
      ME GIVE HIM A TRY SO I CALLED HIM AGAIN AND SEND MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY
      EX MOTHER NAME. BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS HE
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      REALLY LOVE MY HUSBAND AND WANT HIM BACK SO MUCH, THAT DAY I SAW MY HUSBAND
      WAS ONLINE ON FACEBOOK AND HE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCK BECAUSE HE
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      AGAIN HE SAID ARE YOU THERE? I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND HE SAID CAN WE SEE
      TOMORROW I SAID YES AND HE WENT OFF-LINE I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT WITH
      HIM AGAIN BUT HE WAS NO MORE ON LINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS
      WONDERING WHAT HE IS GOING TO SAY, BY 9.AM THE NEXT MORNING HE GAVE ME A
      MISS CALL I DECIDED NOT TO CALL BACK AS I WAS STILL ON SHOCK AGAIN HE
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      Delete
    12. PC IS annoying. It's why i'm not afraid to call out Conservatives as the bigots they have always been.
      And neither should anyone else.

      Delete
  3. Jim Vanderhei tried to pin Trump down about how his words in his rally were inciting violence among certain followers. Trump kept saying that his crowds expect him to say such things, they like it. He accepted no responsibility and it seemed that if the crowd wants it, it is right. Almost, there are my people and they demand it.

    Somerby seems to be arguing that it is liberal desire to see Trump as a nazi-sympathizer that is responsible for the reading of his statements as dog whistles to the right. It is not actually what Trump is saying. That is wishful thinking. They hear him loud and clear. And if Trump's statements are not designed to encourage the alt-right, what about the blatant white supremacists he surrounds himself with in his administration? How do you explain away folks like Bannon and Miller?

    Are we really to take Trump's statement that he is a Nationalist as anything other than White Nationalist? It has no other meaning in an age where striving toward nationhood is a done deal. Trump is naked in his desire to keep out inferior people, aligned with those whose goals are stated more blatantly in Europe. He would be a hypocrite to visit any grave in France and he perhaps knew it would send the wrong signal to his followers, very fine people among them. This disrespect is another dog whistle to the forces of evil he is rallying to his cause.

    Why is no one saying this? Trump the buffoon conceals Trump the racist xenophobe, but they are both the same person. And neither is fine.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Trump cheered Senate victory; so did supremacists

      Anderson Cooper 360
      As President Donald Trump calls himself "a nationalist," there are signs that his stance is inspiring white supremacists and other fringe groups who spread hate. CNN's Sara Sidner reports.

      Source: CNN

      Just watched it this morning on CNN.

      No, President Chickenshit didn't explicitly say that even some neo-Nazis, are "very fine people."

      The problem is, he didn't have to. Those were the only kind of people on the other side.

      Delete
    2. Ah yes, Macron, little globalist-bankers' lapdog, with 21% approval.

      "Macron rebukes" - lol.

      Delete
    3. The very first Nazi cabinet, appointed by the Nationalist Party president Hindenburg, was composed of eleven Nationalist Party leaders and only two NSDAP leaders (Hitler and Göring).

      Delete
    4. mm: Trump cheered Senate victory; so did supremacists

      Not only that. Consider the following horrifying fact: Trump eats bread; so do supremacists!

      Delete
    5. White bread, David. White bread. That's what nationalists eat.

      What the fuck are you still doing here, traitor? Shouldn't you be down at the border with your musket repelling the invasion?

      Delete
    6. And why don't you go and smuggle a bunch of underclass foreigners into the country, patriotic tourette-dembot.

      Delete
    7. "tourette dembot" = Someone not afraid of being too PC in calling Conservatives the pieces of shit they are.

      The only people who support political correctness more than the Left, are the Right when you tell them the truth about themselves.

      Delete
    8. As always, thanks for sharing your autistic feelings, butthurt dembot.

      Delete
    9. That's "artistic", shithead.

      Delete
  4. Condensed version of David Brooks' latest column:

    Now that Democrats have a little power, everyone needs to calm down a little. Let's recall the pre-WW1 gentility, the gentlemanly sporting spirit amongst the "educated classes".


    Or, as Senate Majority Leader McConnell said,

    “The Democrats in the House are going to have to decide just how much presidential harassment they think is good strategy. I’m not so sure it will work for them.”

    Bwahahahaha!!!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Shorter Krugman: How dare Republicans act just like Democrats have acted for decades!

    ReplyDelete
  6. “On the leadership level, we'd say the current "Republican" leadership is sunk in a moral and intellectual morass which doesn't exist, to anything like the same extent, among the "Democrats" who serve as party leaders.”

    This is new. I’ve never seen Somerby admit this ever before. Somerby probably has some reasons in his own mind why he feels this way. It would be nice to hear what they are.

    He also wants to ‘draw a distinction between the "Republicans" who serve as party, corporate and media leaders and the rank-and-file "Republicans" who are simply gullible enough to believe the things they get told.’

    That’s fine, but what about the non-gullible rank-and-file? Perhaps they are among the suburban, young, or female voters who defected to the Democrats this last election. So, they were “gettable”, precisely because they weren’t gullible. That leaves the rest of them clinging to a bunch of party, media, and corporate leaders who are far worse than anything on the other side.

    Ergo, the Democrats and mainstream media need to keep pointing out the moral and intellectual morass represented by the GOP. Maybe the remaining gullible GOP rank-and-file will finally get the message.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hmm. But perhaps he's not aware that those who are "sunk in a moral and intellectual morass", the worst R scumbags, they've left the "party" and joined the camarilla of the banksters' servants, the D "party". Yeah, your Bill Kristols, your Max Boots, your Joe Scarboroughs, the most appalling ones.

      Delete
    2. No question, that lots of manufacturing left the US and went to low wage countries in Asia and elsewhere. There is a big trade imbalance (seems to be increasing so far under Trump). Trump campaigned on reversing this, and has imposed tariffs and renegotiated NAFTA (though I'm not sure how doing this has or will have significant effect). I don't understand how 'globalism" and the current situation is the dems fault as opposed to the GOP; how Trump is hurting 'Globalists'; who are the 'Globalists' (investment bankers and George Soros?); or whether your position is based on some reasonable and plausible logic or not. Also, why are people who don't like Trump 'scumbags' as opposed to people who just disagree with you? Aren't there arguments both ways? Can you explain?

      Delete
  7. Should it perhaps be mentioned that within one week, Somerby approvingly quotes Andrew Sullivan and David Brooks, two conservative columnists who were remarkably strident in their support for the Iraq War? Brooks, a mainstream media “conservative” whose principal advice to Democrats is “why can’t you be more like conservatives.”

    Brooks misses the point of the Kubrick film, for what it’s worth. He is and has been an enabler of the power of oligarchs, and is given a prominent forum in the media that Somerby criticizes for catering to the oligarchs. But hey, “both sides” right?

    ReplyDelete
  8. "So, should I assume that you're unaware that it was a protest against the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee?"
    So, should I assume that you're unaware that Lee was a traitor responsible for the deaths of countless Americans?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Bob goes Imprecise!!!

    "If memory serves, this isn't what the disordered man
    actually said......."

    A) If memory serves..... When Bob is doing his job
    properly, no such lazy disclaimers are necessary.
    I may have this wrong, but let me condemn Krugman
    on moral grounds, because, really, it's not that
    important......

    B) Trump didn't exactly actually say that neo Nazis, or even
    some Neo Nazis, are very fine people.....

    So, what are we missing? Trump said some of the Mao's
    friends at the rally were very fine people, clearly many of
    them were neo Nazis and one killed a young woman at the
    rally. Good people on both sides, he said. Does Bob believe
    there were Trump supporters who were not white nationalists
    (there ARE such confusing people) but simply people who
    disagreed with Krugman? It's hard to tell, because Bob
    doesn't

    C) really, it's not that important.

    "Paths of Glory" is a wonderful film, but it's not a morally
    complex one. The viewer is never invited to see the point
    of view of the villains. Are the ghastly French Generals
    fighting for something important, and would there be
    terrible consequences if they simple acquiesced to
    the Germans? The movie is not really interested in such
    matters. As Pauline Kael pointed out, it would have been
    much harder to make such a film about WWII.

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
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