Last few issues concerning the Naep!

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2019

Plus, Giuliani Unhinged and Undone:
We've been reminded that Christmas will be observed on Christmas Day this year.

If Donald J. Trump is re-elected, we're reliably told that the holiday will be moved into the spring, where it will be conjoined with a new Robert E. Lee / Jackson Day. But at least for this year, the famous holiday will be observed next week, near the end of December.

With that in mind, operations have started to wind down on our sprawling campus. Concerning this week's discussion of the Naep, several questions must still be explored:

We need to explain the problems involved in making year-to-year, decade-to-decade comparisons involving the Grade 12 Naep. Beyond that, we need to explore a basic question:

Is there any possibility that Mississippi's surprising Grade 4 scores could be statistically bogus?

Also, one last point needs to be nailed down. That would concern the level of technical competence with which data from the Naep, the Pisa and the Timss are typically interpreted on the highest journalistic levels. This last topic will tell us a lot about "who we are" (in the anthropological sense) as we sit here, on the beach, awaiting Mister Trump's War.

Concerning the aforementioned Mister Trump, we note a description of the commander from Andrew Sullivan's most recent post. The description strikes us as apt:
SULLIVAN (12/20/19): The impeachment was inevitable because this president is so profoundly and uniquely unfit for the office he holds, so contemptuous of the constitutional democracy he took an oath to defend, and so corrupt in his core character that a crisis in the conflict between him and the rule of law was simply a matter of time. When you add to this a clear psychological deformation that can produce the astonishing, deluded letter he released this week in his own defense or the manic performance at his Michigan rally Wednesday night, it is staggering that it has taken this long. The man is clinically unwell, preternaturally corrupt, and instinctively hostile to the rule of law. In any other position, in any other field of life, he would have been fired years ago and urged to seek medical attention with respect to his mental health.
We'll disagree with Sullivan on one point. In our view, if a person is "clinically unwell" to the degree described in that passage, we'd say that trumps the additional claim that the person is also "corrupt."

We'd say that such a person is clinically unwell, full stop. At some point, a person who is mentally ill isn't responsible for his actions in the way the rest of us are.

That said, consider what Sullivan says in that passage. He says the reigning commander in chief is subject to "a psychological deformation" which leads him to produce "astonishing, deluded" claims and to engage in "manic performances."

He says the commander is "clinically unwell" to such an extent that, in any other field of endeavor, "he would have been fired years ago and urged to seek medical attention with respect to his mental health."

We can't call that wrong! Amazingly, though, the upper-end press corps still agrees, as it has done every step of the way, that it mustn't discuss this powerful person's apparent lack of mental health and his possible cognitive impairment.

Kevin Drum has asked this week if any human society has ever been able to come to terms with an oncoming environmental catastrophe. In its explicit refusal to discuss Donald J. Trump's psychological and cognitive health, the upper-end press corps has shown us that our species is strongly disinclined to confront at least one other type of visible disorder.

Rather plainly, the press corps plans to maintain this group silence right to the end of the game. Meanwhile, along came Giuliani this week, exhibiting his own craziest conduct to date.

Giuliani's performance was simply astounding. But this apparent craziness has been smoothed on cable too. Our multimillionaire TV stars simply aren't willing to go there. They've been told they mustn't discuss such matters, and their obedience skills are vast.

Future Anthropologists Huddled in Caves tell us this is simply the way our limited species was wired. They've discussed our species in the past tense, as they despondently do.

We'll finish our Naep reveries at some point next week. We'll also call your attention to two different ways Elizabeth Warren's ancestry issues were summarized yesterday—on the one hand, in the Washington Post, then too in the New York Times.

If Donald J. Trump is re-elected, will we eventually celebrate Christmas / Jackson / Lee Day? That's what we've been reliably told, though we can't swear the prediction is accurate.

At any rate, you can watch Giuliani's crazy behavior at this, the link we provided above. Most grotesquely, he's making his deeply crazy remarks in front of a bunch of students.

Is Giuliani crazy too? Well-mannered, obedient TV stars have been told that they must never ask.

99 comments:

  1. "The description strikes us as apt"

    Well, it's not really surprising, dear Bob: you are, after all, a liberal zombie.

    Obviously, like every other zombie, you must add your voice to the "Orange Man Bad" mantra, despite its self-evident stupidity: the best economy in decades, no wars, etc, etc, etc.

    But we do understand: if you don't chant the mantra with the rest of your zombie comrades, you'll be excommunicated from the cult, dear Bob. And we don't want that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You’re never surprised at the cynicism and anger when they’re bummed, but I thought he understood Trump better.

      If there’s going to a Baby Jesus in Trump’s second term, it’s going to Trump.

      Delete
    2. If there were an impeachment process here at the Daily Howler, at least some of us would have initiated proceedings against Somerby. He is no liberal. He may not even be a Democrat, for all we know. I personally don't believe he cares about black kids, except as a cudgel to beat liberals about the head and shoulders.

      Orange man is very very bad. Who on this earth would continue to wear orange make up long after the press made fun of it and people generally were mocking him about it? That suggests a pretty basic disconnect right there.

      Delete
    3. In this context, a howler is supposed to be a joke, not a cry of pain or outrage (and definitely not a monkey). It can refer to a falsehood so outrageous that it is laughable. But Somerby almost never talks about such things any more.

      Is it a howler that MS improved its NAEP scores to catch up with the rest of the nation, after lawsuits and an investment in teacher training? Somerby thinks this possibly "statistically bogus". Why? Because primarily black kids improved their scores, and everyone knows they are too stupid to learn? Look at those gaps?

      There is no howler here except Somerby and the idea that he ever was liberal. This is a man who gave up teaching and has chosen to remain in the South and has now decided that defending Trump and his ilk (including some very bad men) is worth his remaining time on this planet. It would be sad if it weren't such a howler.

      Delete
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  2. Sullivan says: “in any other field of endeavor, "he would have been fired years ago and urged to seek medical attention with respect to his mental health."

    The Democrats took the first step to firing Trump, ie impeachment. Good, right? Not so fast.

    Somerby thinks impeachment overturns the will of the voters, so he’s dead-set against it. (See previous TDH posts).

    But, at least Somerby believes Trump is guilty of abuses? Not so fast: “In our view, if a person is "clinically unwell" to the degree described in that passage, we'd say that trumps the additional claim that the person is also "corrupt." And: “a person who is mentally ill isn't responsible for his actions in the way the rest of us are.”

    So Somerby believes in...no action at all against a mentally ill person who is inflicting great damage to the country and is doing bad things (even if he isn’t responsible for them), other than an election, which that “mentally ill” person intends to cheat at, helped along by people like William Barr, whom Somerby has never called mentally ill.

    And now, Giuliani may be crazy too, and thus also not corrupt and not responsible for what he is doing! (This despite the fact that Somerby found Giuliani’s “truth isn’t truth” perfectly defensible.)

    What next? Are all the people who toady to Trump also mentally ill? That pretty much includes the entire GOP.

    ReplyDelete
  3. “Is there any possibility that Mississippi's surprising Grade 4 scores could be statistically bogus?”

    After years of citing the Naep as the gold standard, now he suggests the possibility that its results are capable of being statistically bogus, at least in the case of Mississippi.

    But if the results might be bogus in this case, why not other cases? Perhaps the rise in scores that Somerby has constantly touted are partially or in total statistically bogus.

    And if the results are indeed statistically bogus here, then that suggests much more caution when citing them in general. It might even invalidate or at least call into question citing the test as an accurate measure of student achievement, at least without some giant caveat.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "In our view, if a person is "clinically unwell" to the degree described in that passage, we'd say that trumps the additional claim that the person is also "corrupt.""

    This sentence shows a profound ignorance about the nature of mental illness. The mentally ill are no more likely to be corrupt than anyone else. Being mentally ill doesn't give anyone license to lie, cheat and steal. There are numerous ways to be mentally ill and most of them do not involve the kind of lying and corruption exhibited by Trump.

    Somerby is wrong to give Trump a pass on all of his wrongdoing simply by virtue of being mentally ill -- something of which he has never been diagnosed. I will agree that he can and perhaps does have serious mental and emotional problems, but without a competent professional diagnosis, describing these is just name-calling.

    Further, mental illness does not get criminals off the hook. There are many people incarcerated who have diagnosable and diagnosed mental illnesses of various kinds.

    It is wrong to attribute Trump's malfeasance to mental illness because that is a slander on the majority of mentally ill people who in no way behave like Trump. It is hard enough for mentally ill people to find jobs and live normal lives without someone like Somerby using his podium to create a mistaken image of mental illness that all mentally ill people will have to live down.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TDH sez:

      ”In our view, if a person is "clinically unwell" to the degree described in that passage, we'd say that trumps the additional claim that the person is also "corrupt.""
      (Emphasis mine.)

      You say:

      This sentence shows a profound ignorance about the nature of mental illness.

      Is your inability to read for comprehension an isolated problem, or is it a sign of a larger cognitive deficit? Seriously, I’d get that checked out.

      The mentally ill are no more likely to be corrupt than anyone else.

      As a general rule, this is probably true. But who says otherwise? Not TDH.

      Being mentally ill doesn't give anyone license to lie, cheat and steal.

      Of course not. But who says otherwise? Not TDH.

      There are numerous ways to be mentally ill and most of them do not involve the kind of lying and corruption exhibited by Trump.

      Of course. But who says otherwise? Not TDH.

      Further, mental illness does not get criminals off the hook.

      True. The insanity defense rarely works, and when it does, the acquitted is unlikely to escape incarceration of some type. But who says otherwise? Not TDH.

      What blog are you commenting on? It wouldn’t seem to be TDH.

      It is wrong to attribute Trump's malfeasance to mental illness because that is a slander on the majority of mentally ill people who in no way behave like Trump.

      And that would surely be wrong. But TDH is commenting on a person who does behave exactly like Trump because that person is Trump. Not on the majority of mentally ill people. On the President of the United States who is suffering from “a clear psychological deformation,” who is ”deluded,” and who is having “manic” episodes.

      Suppose you worked for a construction company, and the Chief Operating Officer starts to act out like Trump. Bear in mind that this man has the keys to storage facilities where the company keeps the high explosives. Are you really going to worry about whether the COO stole from petty cash?

      Delete
    2. You don't seem to know what the word "trumps" means in Somerby's sentence. When he says being mentally ill trumps being corrupt, he is saying that being ill takes precedence over it. He is saying that we should not worry about his corruption because his illness is worse.

      Then you use a slew of clinical terms as if they are true about Trump, who has never been diagnosed. Those words are "manic episode", "deluded". Your term "psychological deformation" is meaningless but it does sound pretty bad psychologically speaking. And then you proceed to excuse petty theft on the grounds that mental illness would be more concerning, thereby exhibiting the same behavior I was objecting to in Somerby's description.

      When someone commits a crime, the police do not administer any psychological tests before arresting him or her. The crime comes first. Mental status may come into consideration before the trial, but it takes a lot more than the idiocies of Trump's behavior to be declared incompetent to stand trial.

      You and Somerby may consider Trump mentally ill, but he has no evaluation by a professional to substantiate that. Your desire to set aside his corruption in order to deal with his oddness is just plain wrong. It doesn't happen in the real world and there is no basis for doing it in this situation either.

      You can disagree without calling me names and complaining that I can't read or am not on the same blog as you are. This is just annoying and doesn't help your case at all. It comes across as bullying. Why not drop it and talk to others here like a human being?

      Delete
    3. When he says being mentally ill trumps being corrupt, he is saying that being ill takes precedence over it.

      I’ll be damned! So I did know what the word *trumps* means. Whodathought?

      Then you use a slew of clinical terms as if they are true about Trump, who has never been diagnosed. Those words are "manic episode", "deluded". Your term "psychological deformation" is meaningless but it does sound pretty bad psychologically speaking.

      These are not my terms. They are Andrew Sullivan’s. Why can’t you get the simplest things straight? Do you see why I’m worried about your cognitive state?

      And then you proceed to excuse petty theft on the grounds that mental illness would be more concerning,….

      I’m not excusing anything. It’s an analogy to TDH’s narrative. If someone is dangerously deranged, then worrying about their dishonesty should be secondary to the possibility that they could hurt someone.

      When someone commits a crime, the police do not administer any psychological tests before arresting him or her.

      Thank you, Capt Obvious. But when someone commits a crime like menacing, all the while babbling about what are obviously delusions, the police don’t stop to write a ticket because the person is double parked. Do you get it yet? I hope so, because your seeming inability to handle analogies might be a symptom.

      You and Somerby may consider Trump mentally ill,….

      I don’t because I’m not competent to diagnose him even were I able to examine him. This has nothing to do with me. It has to do with your seeming inability to reason about what you read.

      Your desire to set aside his corruption in order to deal with his oddness is just plain wrong.

      This has nothing to do with me. TDH says that if Sullivan is willing to posit Trump’s manifest and serious mental disorder, then Sullivan should let that issue take precedence over discussions of Trump’s corruption. Are you following any of this?

      You can disagree without calling me names….

      I’m not calling you names. I’m saying you can’t think clearly. Which is evident in your every comment.

      It comes across as bullying.

      I’m commenting on your reasoning. I’m sorry you think that’s bullying.

      Why not drop it and talk to others here like a human being?

      I am a human being. I’m just not a very pleasant human being. Why not stop whining about the fact that I find issues with what you write and deal forthrightly with those issues?

      Delete
    4. deadrat,
      You're pretty cocky for a guy who just found out TDH isn't a media criticism blog.

      #slowontheuptake

      Delete
    5. You're pretty cocky for a guy who just found out TDH isn't a media criticism blog.

      Has it changed? Let’s check this blog entry:

      Also, one last point needs to be nailed down. That would concern the level of technical competence with which data from the Naep, the Pisa and the Timss are typically interpreted on the highest journalistic levels.

      we note a description of the commander from Andrew Sullivan’s most recent post

      (That would be the Andrew Sullivan who is, according to Wikipedia, “is a conservative political commentator, a former editor of The New Republic, and the author or editor of six books.”)

      But this apparent craziness [of Giuliani] has been smoothed on cable too. Our multimillionaire TV stars simply aren't willing to go there.

      We'll also call your attention to two different ways Elizabeth Warren's ancestry issues were summarized yesterday—on the one hand, in the Washington Post, then too in the New York Times.

      Is Giuliani crazy too? Well-mannered, obedient TV stars have been told that they must never ask.

      Yep, pretty much still is what it’s always said it is: “musings on the mainstream ‘press corps’ and the american discourse.”

      By the way, I love your .sig line, #slowontheuptake. Very apt for you.

      Delete
    6. Sorry deadrat. I had you confused with one of the other deadrats, who posted about TDH not being a media criticism site anymore.

      Delete
    7. Bob dutifully quotes Andrew Sullivan, because Bob doesn't want to miss out just in case Sullivan accidentally makes a good faith argument.
      In that way, Bob is like the media who quote Gingrich, McConnell, and the rest of the liars.

      Delete
  5. "Is Giuliani crazy too? Well-mannered, obedient TV stars have been told that they must never ask."

    There is a literature on this. People who join cults, who believe in delusional beliefs, are not crazy in any clinical sense. There are people who believe in alien abduction, people who think they themselves are mediums who can communicate with spirits in the spirit world. There are people who believe they will get their own planet in the after life and become gods. There are people who believe their dogs love them. Then there are the people who believe in organized delusional systems, such as White Supremacy, 9/11 birtherism, and whatever conspiracies Trump and his cohort believe in. In the rest of their lives, these people are not at all mentally ill. Believing delusional things doesn't make you crazy, although crazy people can and sometimes do believe delusional things. That isn't what makes them crazy. (Fallacy of affirming the consequent.)

    If Somerby were to do some reading about mental illness, he might stop throwing these terms around as if they exonerated Trump or his cronies.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Andrew Sullivan is a conservative. Why is it that Somerby only approvingly quotes conservatives these days? Even his favorite blogger, Kevin Drum, is a nominal moderate (and neanderthal when it comes to women's issues). Maybe Somerby thinks all of the Democratic candidates are terrible because he is not a Democrat? Time for this pretender to stop referring to "us liberals" and come out.

    ReplyDelete
  7. When Somerby says that Christmas will be combined with a Jackson/Lee holiday, is he mocking the idea that Trump is a White Supremacist? Does he think that Trump's tolerance of Miller is a big joke? Does he not care about the atrocities being committed against black and brown immigrants? Is the liberal concern over racist acts by Trump's administration all a big joke to Somerby?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you considered that this is bitter humor, of the laugh-so-you-don't-cry variety? Would you like an example from
      Alexander Solzhenitsyn's *Gulag Achipelago*, or would you just tell me that Solzhenitsyn thought Stalin was just a big joke?

      Delete
    2. There is an interesting parallel between the way deadrat and leroy work so hard to defend Somerby and the way Republicans work so hard to defend Trump.

      Delete
    3. “When Somerby says that Christmas will be combined with a Jackson/Lee holiday..”

      Christmas combined with a Sheila Jackson Lee Day is a very thoughtful idea.

      Delete
    4. The first thing Trump did upon taking office was to cancel the Harriet Tubman $20 bill. This is a very petty man who has never had a thoughtful thought in his life.

      Delete
    5. It depends upon whether you think it’s kind (or sensible) to kick presidents off of currency or paint them out of murals.

      Delete
    6. I'm willing to agree that Somerby may be bitter, but I don't see any humor in his remarks. The one about combining Christmas with Jackson/Lee day seems to be mocking liberals for their concerns about Trump's White Supremacist views. But it is mostly unfunny because a woman died in Charlottesville, run down by a White Supremacist, and because White Supremacists have been attacking people in churches and synagogues, and because the whole series of attacks on immigrants is motivated by that same White Supremacist world view. So the liberal concerns about White Supremacism aren't so much about statues but about what happens to real people at the hands of those "good people" who Trump enables to do bad things.

      So, you should be able to see why this is unfunny. And you should also be able to see the distance between liberals who care about this and Somerby, who in his bitterness doesn't seem to care about much of anything any more.

      Trump took Native American heritage month and made it into National American History and Founder's month. But Somerby thinks it is a big joke that Trump might make Christmas part of a Jackson/Lee holiday. What else hasn't this man defiled. And no, this just isn't funny, deadrat, you pathetic lump of coal in everyone's stocking.

      Delete
    7. Cecelia, Jackson was censured because he vetoed the funding and recharter of the 2nd National Bank of the US and refused to supply notes of the meeting discussing the veto to Congress as requested (and required by the Constitution). It is ironic that he would appear on any currency after such a move. He was also vehemently against paper money.

      Don't you think that joke has gone on long enough? It is time that women and minorities were brought back into the nation's history and their contributions made visible, along with those of white men.

      Delete
    8. “ What else hasn't this man defiled. And no, this just isn't funny, deadrat, you pathetic lump of coal in everyone's stocking.”

      Good grief, There was a week spent arguing that it’s important to teach children that Thanksgiving Day sucks, now there’s sturm und drang over a pretend holiday.

      Junior High girls have less angst than you guys.

      Can you not just take Christmas/Jackson/Lee Day...(Santa Claus wearing gray on a canon equipped sleigh) as a cheap shot against Trump and not about you?

      Delete
    9. Cecelia, a whole week and you still didn't get the point. What happened to the Indians sucked, but there is nothing wrong with Thanksgiving.

      Christmas/Jackson/Lee day wasn't a cheap shot against Trump. It is a cheap shot against liberals, who are the ones who want Lee to be deemphasized in our history in favor of invisible heroes like Harriet Tubman, who rescued black people from slavery at great personal risk, while Lee was a traitor to his nation.

      Trump is filth. If you voted for filth, there is something very wrong with you. It is that simple. Somerby argues that we should try to understand and appreciate the perspective of Trump's filthy followers. I think it is sufficient to beat them at the polls, track down their domestic terror operations, and send them back to their 3rd world culture where they are proudly declaiming that drunken illiteracy was good enough for them so it is good enough for everyone else (and don't let no elitist tell you otherwise).

      Delete
    10. Cecelia, would you really feel so comfortable here if Somerby were regularly taking cheap shots against Trump?

      What does Somerby say about Trump? He says he is mentally ill so there is no point talking about his sins. (Trump thereby gets a pass.) He says liberals are wrong for not understanding the concerns of "The Other" (e.g., Trump voters). He says Trump is going to win again because liberals have been behaving like liberals again. He advances arguments consistent with conservative talking points about why impeachment is wrong, why the evidence about Ukraine is bogus, and so on.

      This blog couldn't be more conservative-friendly if it were written by avowed conservatives. You won't hear liberal scolded so thoroughly and frequently over at Daily Kos!

      But we're supposed to think that Somerby is mocking Trump? As if (to quote those middle school girls).

      Delete
    11. Anon 3:08pm and 3:12pm, Trump was just impeached. Has that sunk in with you yet?

      Do you read TDH take on Trump? Has that sunk in with you yet?

      Why is there anger and bitterness here in the midst of success?

      If everyone of your political contrarians disappeared off the earth, including Somerby, you’d be at war with each other in three minutes.

      It’s inexplicable.

      Delete
    12. Impeachment is symbolic until the Senate votes to remove Trump.

      The anger and bitterness was attributed to Somerby, not to liberals.

      The discord here is caused by (1) conservative trolls, (2) whatever Mao is -- Russian trolls, (3) Bernie diehards trying to bait Hillary supporters, (4) Somerby's resident schizophrenic, (5) garden-variety sociopathic trolls, (6) Nazis and men's rights assholes. In between there is sometimes legitimate discussion and interesting contributions from those interested in education issues or actually talking about politics in a civil manner.

      You are in category A, Cecelia. You perhaps think you are being civil, but your attitude and snark put you among the trolls.

      Delete
    13. Sorry, that is category 1, not A.

      Delete
    14. Like I said, Anon 4:22pm, get rid of 1-6, install HRC as POTUS, and it would still turn into Lord of the Flies.

      Ten minutes. Tops. That's how you roll.

      Delete
    15. Yeah. Dembots, they are programmed for hate-mongering.

      Discovering and denouncing Enemies of The People, who don't repeat the exact talking point distributed by zombie HQ.

      ...not to forget 'Orange Man Bad', obviously; whoever their cult's Emmanuel Goldstein happens to be at the moment...

      Delete
    16. "Orange Man bad", unless you're a huge supporter of the Establishment Elites. Then it's "Donald the Great".

      Delete
    17. Anonymous Ignoramus on 12/22 @11:00A opines

      There is an interesting parallel between the way deadrat and leroy work so hard to defend Somerby and the way Republicans work so hard to defend Trump.

      You either have a low bar for interesting or don’t understand the concept of parallel or both.

      I have a hobby of pointing out the nonsense comments of your fellow Ignorami when their inability to think straight leads them to say foolish things about TDH.

      You think TDH ever “defended” Roy Moore? You don’t have to answer, but like that.

      TDH spouts a lot of nonsense about mathematics and physics, topics on which he seems willfully ignorant. I think TDH is on a fool’s errand to “understand” people who can square their political views with concentration camps for children on our southern border. His ranting about the NYT page A3 is ridiculous: the test of a newspaper isn’t whether it refrains from ever publishing fluff.

      Go ahead and find a single Republican parallel in their criticism of Trump.

      I’m the guy who says tone is hard to discern from plain text, so let me assure you this comment is dripping with contempt.

      Delete
    18. I think it is sufficient to beat them [Trump’s followers] at the polls, track down their domestic terror operations, and send them back to their 3rd world culture where they are proudly declaiming that drunken illiteracy was good enough for them so it is good enough for everyone else….

      That would be sufficient assuming that you’ve got a large enough majority on your side to overcome the Electoral College bias. If you don’t, then you’re shit out of luck according to TDH unless you can persuade enough of Trump’s followers to switch allegiance from fascism to democracy.

      Now, I think that’s a hopeless crusade because even though Republicans as replicants walk amongst as politically-aware humans, they’re not, and if they’re OK with Trump now, then there’s no changing their minds.

      But I could be wrong, and if I am, then TDH makes sense. I don’t think I’m wrong — who ever does? — but even so I can distinguish between my disagreement with the feasibility of TDH’s stance and thinking he’s one of “them.”

      Delete
    19. Anonymous @1:28P comments:

      I'm willing to agree that Somerby may be bitter, but I don't see any humor in his remarks. [because reasons] So, you should be able to see why this is unfunny.

      Well, I see why you think it’s unfunny. Which is OK. Humor is a subjective thing. People thought Hogan’s Heroes and The Producers were funny. I never saw the humor in those two efforts, and I don’t think TDH’s line about Jackson/Lee is all that amusing. But the difference between us is that I can understand the mechanism behind the attempt at humor without having to head for the fainting couch.

      And you should also be able to see the distance between liberals who care about this and Somerby,….

      Sorry, I know a lot of liberals with differing senses of humor and not one of them is such a triggered snowflake.

      And no, this just isn't funny, deadrat, you pathetic lump of coal in everyone's stocking.

      You know, that’s just about the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me in cyberspace. Merry Christmas to you, too.

      Delete
  8. "Kevin Drum has asked this week if any human society has ever been able to come to terms with an oncoming environmental catastrophe. "

    Actually Kevin Drum asks whether humans have ever shown the willingness to sacrifices for long term good or whether they are too short-sighted. In comments, people talked about WWII, the Civil War, various revolutions, and similar situations. At the time WWII was going on, no one knew how long the war might last, but they were willing to make sacrifices for the war effort. In Europe they continued to make sacrifices to rebuilt Europe after the war.

    But the best example, in my opinion, is that humans make sacrifices for the long term best interests of their children. They establish college funds at birth even though these will not be needed for several decades. They care about what their kids will inherit, an event at the end of their own lives. When needed, they can and do make extreme personal sacrifices to help their kids live, succeed and be happy. This is the norm, even though there are exceptions.

    The industrial revolution created an environmental catastrophe. People enacted rules and laws to reduce the damage so that industry and humans could coexist. The difference now is that the damage is to a planet instead of a village.

    Somerby seems to be focusing on Trump and generalizing to all of humanity from this one deviant monster. He doesn't look at the widespread voluntary efforts by businesses and individuals to reduce the impact of climate change. More people and corporations are working together, ignoring Trump, than Somerby gives us credit for (he sees none of this). California is only one state refusing to lower emission standards, for example.

    Kevin Drum and Somerby think it is cool to look at data and draw gloomy conclusions. I don't know what they think anyone will gain from that kind of thing. We do better when we not only work together but also encourage each other.

    ReplyDelete
  9. If Somerby thinks the NAEP scores for MS are wrong, that should have been his first issue, not one of the "last few issues" hinted at today.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Here is a better analysis of Andrew Sullivan's take on Donald Trump (from No More Mister Nice Blog):

    https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2019/12/andrew-sullivan-threads-needle-badly.html

    ReplyDelete
  11. Andrew Sullivan is mentally ill.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Sullivan says Trump is contemptuous of the constitutional democracy. That's a common charge. Yet, AFAIK Trump has done nothing that violates Constitution. OTOH Pelosi's ploy of impeaching Trump but not sending the impeachment to the Senate seems more like Constitutional violation than anything Trump has done.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AFAIK is your problem.

      Pelosi is waiting for McConnell to set the rules for the Senate trial. Everyone knows that and there is no violation of the constitution involved. This is just another Trump deflection, which you are dutifully parroting.

      Delete
    2. According to the Constitution, the House sets its own rules for impeachment and the Senate sets its own rules for the trial. Pelosi has no Constitutional right to weigh in on the procedures chosen by the Senate, just as McConnell has no say in the procedures chosen by the House.

      And, what will Pelosi do if McConnell simply does nothing? That's what he has indicated. Will she never send the impeachment to the Senate? That's not in the Constitution.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    4. "Pelosi's ploy of impeaching Trump..."

      Meh. I must say, Madam Pelosi (or whoever is animating her, pulling the strings) is doing everything just right, far beyond anyone's wildest expectations.

      Bets on Donald The Magnificent's reelection surged from 40 to 50+% in the last couple of months. The all-time high.

      Bets on zombie cult holding the House dropped from 75 to 68% in the last couple of months. Not yet as low as in early August, when they cooked up the "whistleblower" psyop, but it's getting there.

      And the stonewalling thing is making it even better. It's perfect.

      Delete
    5. Mao,
      You eft out the best part of that polling. 100% of likely Trump voters say they love bigotry more than they could ever love the United States of America.

      I can't believe those doing the poll had to ask.

      Delete
    6. Will she never send the impeachment to the Senate? That's not in the Constitution.

      Yes it is, David, you treasonous bastard. It's right after the Article that says a turtle faced corrupt Senate Leader may deny a sitting president the appointment of a SCOTUS a year before a national presidential election if said president is black and belongs to a different political than the turtle faced Senate Leader

      **********
      8: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
      **************

      Donald J Chickenshit, Acting President, has been violating this clause in the Constitution every fucking day since he swore on the bible to defend it. You treasonous jackass.

      Delete
  13. Oh, goody. Time for another

    *** Public Service Announcement ***

    reminding you that David in Cal is a moral and intellectual idiot, in fact this commentariat’s Village Idiot. You may safely ignore anything he has to say, as whatever he says is a regurgitation of the right-wing talking points that are As Far As He Knows about everything.

    Trump’s tenure is littered with acts of contempt for our constitutional democracy. (Note that the term includes more than the black letter of the Constitution.)

    Trump impounded money for more than 45 days in violation of the Supreme Court decision in Train v The City of New York.

    He used that money to encourage a foreign government to meddle in our election and give him a personal advantage.

    Trump regularly accepts patronage at his hotels and resorts from foreign governments in violation of the emoluments clause.

    Trump declared a bogus emergency to reallocate funds for his wall, when Congress had explicitly refused to fund the wall.

    Trump has blockaded all documentary and witness testimony into the investigation of his corruption. Even Nixon didn’t get away with this.

    And as for Pelosi refusing to appoint impeachment managers until she’s sure that an actual trial will take place in the Senate, that’s up to her, as the Constitution gives the House “the sole power of impeachment.”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Start on page 33 and read carefully from there.

      Delete
    2. The Mueller Report didn't even try to find a Republican who doesn't support treason, but only because Mueller wanted to issue his report this millennia.

      Delete
  14. Let me lay it down for you idiots.

    Impeachment will go nowhere in the Senate at which time Trump will claim a huge victory. Another failure like the Russiagate failure.

    Here's the deal: It's the ultimate case of taking one's eye off the ball. Democrat's eye is totally on Trump. But Trump is the opponent, not the ball. Trump absolutely rules Democrat's psyche and dictates their every thought and move. He has them totally out of rhythm and off their game which is why they keep losing and losing and losing - even to a crazy moron like Trump (who sadly is much smarter than Democratic leaders including those in the media and online). It's because their eye is on Trump.

    But the ball is the people. And not only do Democrats not have their eye on the people, they don't really like the people. This is at the heart of their losing strategy and their forthcoming election loss.

    Sullivan is right about Trump in 2016. He understood "globalized free trade was devastating communities and industries, that we needed serious investment in infrastructure, that Reaganomics was way out of date, and that half the country was stagnating and in crisis."

    Are those statements not true?

    Those are the issues that affect the people. That is the ball. That is the whole game. Focus on that and win. Focus on something else like Trump himself and his antics and bullshit and you get taken off your game and lose.

    Do you idiots really want to concentrate on Trump instead of concentrating on the failure of globalization?

    In a tennis match, you don't concentrate on your opponent. If you do, you lose. You concentrate on the ball. That is how you win. And by concentrating on their opponent, and by being inept and also corrupt, the Democrats get their ass handed to them.

    Concentrate on "half the country stagnating and in crisis", solve their problems, feel their pain, not some of the time but totally and relentlessly and you win.

    "Globalized free trade was devastating communities and industries, that we needed serious investment in infrastructure, that Reaganomics was way out of date, and that half the country was stagnating and in crisis." Are those statements not true? Are you even capable of reading them? It's much easier to make claims that dozens of millions of Americans are all smelly racists and Russian assets than to understand, accept and begin addressing those issues.

    This shit is hard and it's going to be hard for whoever picks up the baton from the current failed Democratic party. And I know you idiots are too dumb and full of misplaced passion and monomania to even understand. But after the forthcoming parade of electoral failures finally gets to you and you awake from your slumber and develop the guts to get over yourselves, all you gotta to is keep your eye on the ball and you will kick ass.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Globalized free trade was devastating communities and industries, that we needed serious investment in infrastructure, that Reaganomics was way out of date, and that half the country was stagnating and in crisis." Are those statements not true?"

      All true. Then we elected a guy who couldn't give a shit about any of that.

      1:12 PM,
      If Democrats lose elections because they have become just as beholden to corporate interests as the Republican Party, why do they lose elections to a party which supports corporate interests even more than they do? (Hint: economic anxiety and bigotry are two sides of the same coin).

      Also, the few Right-wingers who aren't bigots can vote for Elizabeth Warren to cure their economic anxiety. Problem solved.

      Delete
    2. But sir, Democrats are the ones that don't give a shit about those issues. Hillary didn't even mention them. Trump did. That's the point.

      As for the rest, I don't understand what you are saying.

      Delete
    3. "Democrats lose elections because they have become just as beholden to corporate interests as the Republican Party, why do they lose elections to a party which supports corporate interests even more than they do?"

      Because they don't even pretend to address the interests of voters (mentioned above)and Trump did.

      You people are dumb as rocks!

      Delete
    4. But of course they give a shit about it. "Globalized free trade" is all they care about.

      The zombie 'party' is nothing but a tool of global finance. Look who's financing them. Do you know what Soros Fund Management is?

      Delete
    5. "Globalized free trade" is all they care about.

      That's almost true. Hillary has a baguette in her pants for free trade as we all know. They are not ready to give that up. Hence all the Russia slight-of-hand and idiotic accusations of bigotry. That's how Trump beat them and will again unless they face this issue directly.

      Delete
    6. 1:35 - If you claim it is true that globalized free trade was devastating communities and industries, then you will understand why Clinton didn't appeal to many voters. She outspokenly defended and supported globalized free trade.

      It's not that hard to understand.

      Delete
    7. When Mao talks about Soros, he is talking code for Jews. All this talk about global conspiracy is anti-semitism. What is it about Somerby that attracts these people?

      Of course, Hillary was for free trade. She is also a capitalist. We are a capitalist nation. She was mainstream America. She lost because Russia and Trump colluded to rig the election -- 65 million people voted FOR her and against Trump.

      Delete
    8. It's not "almost" true, it's just true.

      And yes, they do face it directly. Their campaigns are funded by global finance, and they serve global finance. This is as direct as it can be.

      And when, by some freak accident, a decent politician gets elected as a D (like Dennis Kucinich, for example), they kick him out, by hook or by crook (redistricting, in Kucinich's case). No doubt they'll get rid of Gabbard too.

      They are not misguided, they are not stupid, they're simply a tool of global finance. Many individual Rs are too, but with Ds it's different, it's on a different level. It's institutional.

      Delete
    9. "Hillary was for free trade." This is a big issue and problem for Democrats that has to be addressed as free trade has not worked out for many Americans. Trump ran against free trade which was energizing to many and is most likely more important than unproven accusations of collusion. In many districts, the loss of manufacturing jobs is correlated to votes for Trump.

      Delete
    10. 3:00 do you disagree that globalized free trade devastated communities and industries?

      Delete
    11. All forms of economic organization have devastated specific communities and industries from time to time. Talk to the buggy whip manufacturers.

      Delete
    12. Well, the specific devastated communities in this particular economic organization are rather vast in number, have been suffering for quite a while now and need to be addressed politically. That was Sullivan's point and the reason Trump beat Clinton. Continued disregard for the huge number of devastated communities will further imperil Democrats. From time to time.

      Delete
    13. As Americans, we should be addressing these devastated communities that have resulted from this economic organization which has made a very small number of our fellow countrymen very rich while devastating entire community after entire community all across the country leaving a trail of poverty and suicide and drug addiction and despair and depression and. devastation. It should be at the top of our list of priorities. Addressing said devastation. That has resulted from our economic organization. Which happens from time to time.

      Delete
    14. With all this societal devastation one wonders if the bloody economic organization was even necessary to begin with. What was the point of the economic organization? The one that devastated specific communities all across the country. Kind of like buggy whip manufacturers. From time to time.

      Delete
    15. From time to time, political candidates address specific communities that have been devastated by economic organizations that these communities didn't really have a say in or understand. Which gives the candidate a tremendous advantage over opponents that not only don't address the devastated communities but actually continue to support the economic organization that caused the devastation while at the same time labelling tens of millions of members of these devastated communities "racists".

      It seems like that happens from time to time. Like buggy whip manufacturers.

      Delete
    16. Like buggy whip manufacturers, hundreds of American communities have been devastated by a failed economic organization that has created vast income inequality and declining relative wages and job loss for the racist workers without college degrees in said devastated communities which litter the countrysides of the richest country in the history of the world.

      This happens from time to time.

      Delete
    17. (and the workers are from time to time, like buggy whip manufacturers, anti-semitic.)

      Delete
    18. It was obvious Trump voters had deep, deep concerns about the rigged economy, and were not at all turned-on by his bigotry. That's why they torched all his properties. after he handed the economy to Wall Street.

      Delete
    19. "Because they don't even pretend to address the interests of voters (mentioned above)and Trump did."

      If that's true, Warren will win the 2020 Presidency in a landslide. So what are you whining about, sport?

      Delete
    20. Warren won't win the presidency in a landslide but someone else will. And they will be focused on issues that affect all Americans. And you will be very happy. Despite your vast ignorance and immaturity.

      Now run along and go masturbate.

      Delete
    21. "Now run along and go masturbate."

      Have you heard, it's Liberals not Conservatives, who like to tell other people what they should do. LOL.

      Delete
    22. It's like every Right-wing accusation is really a confession. Except, without the "it's almost like" part.

      Delete
    23. The landslide victor will be a Democrat. And you will be very happy. Despite your vast ignorance and immaturity.

      Now run along and go masturbate some more.

      Delete
    24. ”It's like every Right-wing accusation is really a confession.”

      Please stop linking to the spam posts about voodooing your husband into staying home.

      Your obvious inability to think logically has caused you to encourage these grifters.

      Delete
    25. "Please stop linking to the spam posts about voodooing your husband into staying home."

      Those are Mao's best posts.

      Delete
    26. Hahaha!!!


      (No offense to you, Mao.)

      Delete
  15. It is interesting to see what a different reality some people are living in.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's interesting to see people end sentences with prepositions.

      Delete
    2. Not from California are you. Watch out -- Somerby might call you pompous or elitist.

      Delete
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