THE ROLE OF MISTAKEN BELIEF: People believe the darnedest things!

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2020

Many beliefs "don't make sense:"  What did the late Herman Cain believe when he went to Trump's Tulsa event?

Trump's Tulsa event was held indoors. Herman Cain wasn't wearing a mask, and he wasn't "social distancing." In the weeks which followed the Tulsa event, he was diagnosed with Covid-19 and he died. 

No one knows where and how Cain contracted the virus. But what in the world was Herman Cain thinking—what in the world  did he think or believe—when he decided to go to the Tulsa event?

There's no way to answer your thoughtful question. But Cain was hardly alone. 

In fairness, most Trump supporters had enough sense to stay away from the Tulsa event. The sparse attendance was an embarrassment to the Trump campaign.

That said, thousands of people did show up, and we know that at least one attendee has died. Meanwhile, attendees had to sign a waiver pledging that they wouldn't sue the commander-in-chief if they contracted Covid-9 at his Tulsa event. 

The commander didn't mingle with the masses at the Tulsa event. What in the world were those people thinking when they went to this event?

Last week, Jim Acosta, CNN's "big galoot," finally did the right thing. Breaking every rule in the book, he asked at least three (3) Trump supporters why they went to a recent Trump rally without the help of a mask.

The rally was held up in Michigan. To review the answers the three people gave, you can visit Monday's report—but the second respondent said this:

ACOSTA: Sir, please tell me. Why are you not wearing a mask?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because there's no Covid. It's a fake pandemic created to destroy the United States of America.

ACOSTA: But the president said to Bob Woodward that there is a virus, the coronavirus, and it is deadly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's his opinion. The truth is, is that CDC said only 10,000 people die from Covid. The other 192,000 have 2.6 or 2.8 other mortalities.

In our view, that man is in the grip of several mistaken beliefs. 

Last Thursday night, Don Lemon played the videotape of Acosta's three interviews. After the exchanges were aired, Lemon and his incredulous guests worked through their standard progressions.

"I don't really get it," Lemon said, puzzled by a respondent who said he was putting his faith in the Lord. A bit later, he angrily moralized:

LEMON (9/10/20): Kirsten, I'm going to get to you, but I wonder if I should get—bring my family out of a hot spot there in Louisiana to have a life, because they have a life.

Guess what? We social distance. We wear masks and we keep moving. But my mom has been trapped in the house since March. And it's heartbreaking, because there are these people, like these folks right here, who don't care about anybody but themselves.

Jim Acosta's three respondents  "don't care about anybody but themselves?" Which part of "I think the pandemic is fake" didn't this cable news star understand?

Finally, Lemon threw to Kirsten Powers. In our view, Powers has long been sharper than the average cable news bear. 

Powers didn't get it either. To her, none of it made any sense:

LEMON: [Trump's] not downplaying the virus. He's pretending the pandemic is over.

POWERS: Yes. I mean, and this, it's really—it is a tragedy on so many levels, but it is particularly sad to watch these people who believe him. 

[...]

And, you know, it was interesting listening to that man who said, "The good Lord is going to protect me, and I have to go on with my life." 

I've heard some version of this from various Trump supporters. And yet, when the caravan is coming, allegedly, the good Lord is not going to protect them. When antifa is coming, the good Lord is not going to protect them, right? None of it makes sense.

Trump does seem to be  spreading the notion that the pandemic is pretty much over. 

In our view, it is sad, or something like it, to watch the various people who believe Trump's various  claims. That said, none of Acosta's three respondents stated that particular point as a part of their answer.

Powers then described a logical contradiction for which she could cite no specific example. But she was certainly right on one score:

The things we humans say and believe quite frequently don't make sense. Indeed, that has been true for a very long time within the American discourse.  

Vast amounts of our modern discourse have been driven by false or mistaken belief. Examples:

Was Barack Obama born in Kenya? It seems rather clear that he wasn't, but millions of people seemed to believe that he actually was. With Greta Van Susteren serving as his caddy,  Donald J. Trump pimped that notion on Fox for years.

Is the theory of  climate change really a hoax? Is it a hoax invented by the Chinese? We'd score those as  mistaken beliefs. But Trump and others have pushed such claims, and many people believe them. 

Indeed, the second of Acosta's three respondents said he believes that Covid-19 is itself a hoax! He seems to be taking his beliefs from the lunatic QAnon crowd.

In the politics of the past three or four decades, many false and mistaken beliefs have come from sources on the right. But other false and mistaken beliefs have come from the mainstream press:

Did Al Gore said he invented the Internet? Do we "now know" that Gennifer Flowers was telling the truth all along?

These claims were pushed by upper-end stars at the New York Times and the Washington Post. Many people believed those claims. We'd score them as false beliefs. 

(As first lady, did Hillary Clinton engage in seances? That came from top journalists too!)

Our world is clogged with mistaken belief which arrives from the right. That said, our own self-impressed liberal/progressive tribe is rich with false belief too.

Anthropologists have explained all this, though they've only done so in the future. They've said that we humans are really "the tribal animal." We're the animal which invents and repeats pleasing tribal tales.

These experts say that our own liberal tribe is currently sunk in false, mistaken and extremely shaky belief. They say that people in the other tribe can sometimes  see this about our tribe, but that we ourselves pretty much can't.

They say that we (self-described) humans are wired that way. It's the way things have always been.

What happens when we humans try to create true belief? Tomorrow, we'll look in on two New York Times stars as they try to handle some data. On Friday, we'll take you to the origin point of the modern liberal framework:

It all began with a flat misstatement in the New York Times. On line, to this very day, the misstatement stands uncorrected!

Future Anthropologists Huddled in Caves, a collection of highly credentialed scholars, report to us from the future through the mysterious nocturnal submissions the haters refer to as dreams. These despondent experts moan about our own tribe's current conduct.

On Friday, we'll start sharing their claims. It all began in the Times, they insist, as weeping is heard in their caves.

Tomorrow: Douthat and Leonhardt tried


54 comments:

  1. "But what in the world was Herman Cain thinking—what in the world did he think or believe—when he decided to go to the Tulsa event?

    There's no way to answer your thoughtful question."

    Meh. It's a silly question, dear Bob, and the answer is perfectly obvious: Mr Cain wanted to go to the event, and he knew that masks don't make any difference.

    "Is the theory of climate change really a hoax?"

    Climate is changing all the time, dear Bob. Everyone knows that.

    And so, what is this "theory of climate change" you speak of, dear Bob? Is there The Official Theory every Faithful is required to Believe?

    "Indeed, the second of Acosta's three respondents said he believes that Covid-19 is itself a hoax!"

    Meh. They hysteria created around it by your liberal cult certainly is, dear Bob. Everyone outside your zombie cult knows it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
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  2. “Did Al Gore said he invented the Internet? Do we "now know" that Gennifer Flowers was telling the truth all along?”

    Put these alongside the “mistaken” beliefs held by trump supporters, and many in the GOP: Covid is a hoax; global warming is a hoax.

    The difference: these “mistaken” beliefs are being pushed by the GOP and the president, whereas the Gore/Internet or Gennifer Flowers stuff was being pushed by the media, not by Democrats. The so-called liberal media was doing it to undermine Clinton and Gore.

    Democrats knew what Gore had said, and didn’t believe the media’s lies, and Democrats were highly skeptical of Flowers.

    So Somerby is engaging in a false equivalence here.

    ReplyDelete
  3. “So Somerby is engaging in a false equivalence here.”

    Somerby is not arguing that false beliefs are all equivalent in their outlandishness, their effect on society, or that the tendency to embrace them is equally distributed among the pop.

    He’s saying that at varying levels, humanity does incline itself to believe crap.

    Especially, if it’s fun and convenient.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nothing says "fun" like the deaths of a million people worldwide.

      I'm starting to believe Trump really did see people celebrating on 9/11/2001, but I doubt they were Muslims.

      Delete
    2. Not just humanity. There was a bot here the other day, believing it's more than just bigotry that explains Trump's election in 2016.

      Delete
    3. Life didn’t keep a lot of people out of the streets.


      Delete
    4. Cecelia, what you just said makes no sense.@1:40

      Also, you are not the Somerby-whisperer and your idea of what Somerby meant is not any more valid than anyone else's.

      mh is making an important point. You reduced Somerby to a platitude.

      I disagree that people, as a species, have a tendency to believe crap. If you believe too much incorrect stuff, nature has a way of correcting your errors, as it is demonstrably doing with covid.

      I believe that the internet has opened the door to way more crap than people are used to seeing and hearing and that people do not have filters and reality-monitoring to evaluate such a flood of crap yet, but it will come or we will disappear from the Earth because the function of knowledge is to protect us and wrong knowledge won't do that.

      Don't confuse Somerby with an anthropologist -- he is a major source of crap himself these days.

      For example, Somerby says:

      "Meanwhile, attendees had to sign a waiver pledging that they wouldn't sue the commander-in-chief if they contracted Covid-9 at his Tulsa event."

      I'll bet you any amount of money that the waiver was for Covid-19 NOT Covid-9. Even Trump's campaign wouldn't be stupid enough to get the name of the disease wrong in a waiver of liability for it.

      Delete
    5. Anonymouse 3:08, why are you comparing what is likely a typo to what Somerby is saying about human inclinations.

      Typos may be crap (and I should know..,). but they aren’t lies, logical fallacies, or conspiracy theories.

      I don’t know how I’ve reduced Somerby to being platitudinous when he has spent years talking about this part of the human condition and the fact that our cultural “gatekeepers” have abandoned their posts.

      We just spent a week watching the media report about disappearing mail trucks.

      It doesn’t matter how often TDH says that the right shovels crap with their hands and feet, the very fact that he brings up the point that our intelligentsia has sold out to storyline and that this has started to affect the thinking of the members of his own party is just too much for you.

      I don’t know why you put yourself through it.

      Delete
    6. @cecelia, Trump said, without coercion, on February 7, that he knew the virus was serious and that he deliberately downplayed it. That is not a media Storyline; those are Trump’s own words. He held rallies after that date. And continues to hold them.

      Delete
    7. The only way you can conclude that human beings would evolve a behavior that is counter-productive to survival is if you don't believe in evolution. I wouldn't put it past you, but short of that, the way that people think tends to support their success in their environment, not work against it as Somerby claims. Somerby is an idiot when it comes to understanding psychology, which means he is an idiot about people and how they behave.

      Delete
    8. "Somerby is not arguing that false beliefs are all equivalent" that is a strawman fallacy.

      Saying that "at varying levels, humanity does incline itself to believe crap" is like saying humans poop at varying levels, it is a statement devoid of any usefulness or meaning.

      When your level of discourse is strawman-ing and vapidness, it is time to sit one out.

      Delete
    9. “ Jim Acosta's three respondents "don't care about anybody but themselves?" Which part of "I think the pandemic is fake" didn't this cable news star understand?”

      mh, which part of this point didn’t you get?

      Delete
    10. "He held rallies after that date. And continues to hold them."

      And what of it, dear mh?

      Your zombie cult has been holding non-stop mass-riots all over the country for months now. Any objections to that? Or is it perfectly fine as far as you're concerned?

      Delete
    11. Anonymouse 5:26 pm, that is laughable.

      With that logic you wouldn’t have a quarrel with any sort of supremacy - racial, male, female, in between...

      Just because denial can be taken to the point of self destruction does not mean that it is not a necessary (to an initial point) mechanism of our species.


      Delete
    12. Cecelia, that is Don Lemon’s view, not a general media narrative.

      At any rate, why do you think that person believes the virus is a hoax? Because Fox News, the GOP, and the president keep telling him that? The same people he votes into office and goes to for “information?” At some point, believing those sources unquestioningly ultimately does show a lack of concern for others, when those sources are promoting a lie. More people died than should have.

      Delete
    13. “ When your level of discourse is strawman-ing and vapidness, it is time to sit one out.”

      That’s interesting. So my saying that Somerby has not colored the whole of humanity in the same hue, but has made distinctions, is what’s vapid.

      Not stark enough for you.

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    14. "non-stop mass-riots all over the country for months now" is demonstrably false (and would suggest Trump's utter incompetency).

      If you cared about others on a societal level, you could not possibly think the pandemic is fake. I doubt that particular person is being honest, he is being performative, he is playing a role, living out a fantasy.

      Republicans only care about themselves as a principle. It is not a bug, it is a feature, Republicans are functioning as intended. This is the "self interest" "personal responsibility" Milton Friedman/Reagan garbage they have been operating under for decades. The point to it all is that corporations maintain their power to keep labor in check.

      Delete
    15. Correct, the notion that humanity has distinctions is vapid. It is like saying our eyes see more than one color. Big wow, as we used to say.

      Delete
    16. 1:38

      Bigotry may inform Trump's support, but it does not fully explain his election - bigots were going to vote for Trump anyway.

      Delete
    17. "He’s saying that at varying levels, humanity does incline itself to believe crap."

      This is the vapid statement you made. It is empty, meaningless, largely because of the phrase "varying levels" which can mean from 0 to 100%. You can tack "varying levels" on any sentence and it will be just as vapid.

      People like to go to dog races at varying levels. People will eat bugs at varying levels. At varying levels, people cry at the movies.

      See how that works. Somerby is the master of this sort of statement-denial combination. Emulating him makes you a troll.

      Delete
    18. I realize the only distinction you'd tolerate is the stuff of comic book heroes or villains. Einsteins or clods.

      Just as agreeing with the blogger on his blog makes me a troll, this sort of reasoning is deep stuff.

      Delete
    19. You throw out words instead of arguments. That isn't reasoning of any kind. You are a troll because you behave like a troll. Hit and run quips, never a serious discussion with anyone. You are only here to amuse yourself (in the style of the dark triad: narcissism, sociopathy, Machiavellianism) and make trouble. I'd ask who funds you, but I'm sure you have no trouble "borrowing" money from your "friends."

      Delete
    20. I don’t know how to respond to what you must consider to be analysis ala Anonymouse 6:43pm or to personal comments on my character, such as yours.

      Why would I bother with that?

      As to your last non-question- Al Gore.

      Delete
    21. "As to your last non-question- Al Gore."

      Good one, Mao.

      Delete
    22. 7:04,
      Forty-six months later, those reasons are still a secret.

      Delete
  4. "Jim Acosta's three respondents "don't care about anybody but themselves?" Which part of "I think the pandemic is fake" didn't this cable news star understand?"

    This is inherent in their unwillingness to stay home or wear a mask. Protecting others is important, whether you believe God will protect you or not.

    There is a fundamental stupidity being expressed by these people. It is that if they don't believe in something, they don't have to do it when the government or social custom requires that you do it.

    You may not believe in speed limits, since you are capable of driving safely based on judgment of weather conditions and traffic, but you are required to do it and will get a ticket despite your reasons for disbelieving in slowing down.

    This is a matter of the public good and there are both rules and laws about mask wearing. It isn't a matter of personal opinion.

    These people are wrong in their beliefs. Somerby thinks it matters what they believe. It doesn't. It only matters that they are disobeying both custom and law when they refuse to wear a mask or social distance. That makes them selfish, anti-social people, no matter what they believe about covid.

    So, when Don Lemon or Jim Acosta or any other reporter calls them selfish, instead of referring to their specific reasons, they are correct, and they are also correct to ignore the reasons, which appear to be numerous and all incorrect.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "That said, our own self-impressed liberal/progressive tribe is rich with false belief too."

    And yet Somerby has not listed one single false belief held by liberal/progressive people. If there are so many, it should be possible to come up with examples, as he did today with both the press and the right.

    You don't get to label liberals/progressives as holding wrong, tribal beliefs without such examples. That is just name-calling.

    A decade ago, when the right became immersed in wrong belief, the left labeled itself the reality party -- not to assert that its beliefs were always correct, but to pledge that science and research would be the foundation for their beliefs. They pledge not to lie and to test knowledge against better sources than wishful thinking. That's why so many on the left were shocked by Trump's casual disregard for truth, his willingness to lie with impunity. And even more shocked that Republicans didn't care that their candidate lied. It shouldn't be surprising that a party which does not hold truth as a value gets so many beliefs wrong.

    The false equivalence is between a group that deliberately lies and a group that strives for fact and will change its beliefs to fit facts when confronted with truth.

    Somerby thinks that when a reporter mistakes a detail in a news report, or omits a detail that the right thinks is important, that means that liberals believe false things just like conservatives do. But there is a lot of difference between complaining about Breonna Taylor's death and believing that covid is a hoax, that Hillary runs a pedophile ring along with Tom Hanks and that elections can be rigged by the deep state. The right isn't getting a few facts wrong, they are believing in motivated lies concocted by party leaders to manipulate their votes. Those are the acts of evil people who are duping those who gave up thinking for lent. That is not what is happening on the left at all.

    That's why I believe that Somerby is part of the right-wing effort to sway votes toward Trump. No one honestly looking at the two parties with any objectivity could characterize the left as Somerby has been doing. I think Somerby is selling his own bill of goods and getting paid for it, and he should be ashamed of himself for helping the forces of darkness, especially now that people are dying because of Trump's ambition and Republican greed.

    ReplyDelete
  6. “ That is not what is happening on the left at all.

    That's why I believe that Somerby is part of the right-wing effort to sway votes toward Trump. No one honestly looking at the two parties with any objectivity could characterize the left as Somerby has been doing. I think Somerby is selling his own bill of goods and getting paid for it, and he should be ashamed of himself for helping the forces of darkness, especially now that people are dying because of Trump's ambition and Republican greed.”


    ahem.., Exhibit A....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you are going to claim that I am incorrect about this, you'll need some evidence. I've been providing mine for months now.

      Delete
    2. All on the Left are like this.
      And all on the Right are like Mao.

      Congratulations, Cecelia.

      Delete
    3. You put words in my mouth and then “congratulate” me for them.

      That’s Anonymices.

      Delete
    4. Somerby does not work. Who funds TDH?

      Delete
    5. Somerby is probably on social security. He may have a small pension from his school days, maybe a 401K too. It is enough for someone with only a pear tree to support.

      Delete
  7. Jake Winkman, if you are Anonymouse 3:23pm, you should know that accusations are not evidence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somerby's words, day in and day out, are the evidence. All you need to do is connect the dots.

      Delete
    2. "Oy"

      Your smug certainty aside, most conclusions are not reached through one method of reasoning; the theory that Somerby is ultimately an advocate for Republicans is "perfectly" reasonable and highly probable, indeed there are some of the left who became so frustrated with the Democratic establishment that they became Trump supporters.

      Notably Somerby has little to no support from or sway with liberals, yet he is supported by those on the right.




      Delete
    3. Yeah, the right just flocks to this site. All three of us. Obviously, Republicans would be paying Somerby to convince their ranks to vote Trump. It would have to be a Stephen Miller idea.

      Perhaps the occasional lurker comes by and is persuaded to vote for the sociopath ticket.

      It's so subtle it's scary. Double oy.

      Delete
    4. Cecelia
      David in Cal (who seems to be MIA lately)
      Leroy
      AC/MA
      several nameless trolls, some incredibly racist and others sexist, who come out when the topic is right (e.g., they'll be back when Somerby defends Rittenhouse)

      Thats far more conservatives than you would expect at a liberal blog

      liberals:

      deadrat (although you wouldn't suspect it most days)
      myself
      Jake Winkman
      mh
      Corby
      hardindr (hasn't been around lately)
      several nameless people who may be the same person or different people
      someone who reliably points out that Trump's appeal is to racists
      someone who daily points out how many people Trump has killed to date

      independents
      whoever posts all the spam

      I still think that's a lot of conservatives for a supposedly liberal blog

      Delete
    5. I think it says it all that aside from deadrat, you've labeled liberals as being conservatives simply because they don't share your view of Somerby.

      Delete
    6. Cecelia is alright with me. Her pretending to care about looted businesses, earlier this Summer, gave me hours of entertainment. That was some good shtick, while it lasted.

      Delete
    7. Somerby is expressing conservative talking points, so people who agree with him are people to whom those talking points make sense and seem reasonable -- conservatives.

      Someone is not a liberal just because they say they are. The whole point of the current Russian disinformation campaign is to sow discord on the left. Liberals are supporting Biden -- no cracks in our determination to get rid of Trump. You guys are wasting your time here.

      Delete
    8. Cecelia
      David in Cal (who seems to be MIA lately)
      Leroy
      AC/MA
      several nameless trolls, some incredibly racist and others sexist, who come out when the topic is right (e.g., they'll be back when Somerby defends Rittenhouse)


      David in sunny California is hunkered down working on his herd mentality.

      Delete


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    ..........

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  9. HAVING A Long and Thicker PENIS gives you a 100% guarantee when meeting your girlfriend or wife and as well makes her respect you more as the real man for being able to satisfy her sexual needs. waste no more time, get in contact with Doctor Aziba for his herbal product to help you get the actual size deserved for your woman and make her happy like every other women out there, Doctor Aziba product is 100% Vegans and guarantee with no side effects Contact Doctor Aziba via whatsApp: +2348100368288 or mail him: PRIESTAZIBASOLUTIONCENTER@GMAIL.COM












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  10. Happiness is all i see now, i was herpes sicker for 6 years but i thank God for directing my footsteps to Dr Emu, he gave me instructions and i followed and in 2 weeks i was completely cured using his medicine, I am now Herpes Negative Contact Dr Emu for more information, He also has other cure to other ailment, HIV AIDS, CANCER, DIABETES, HEART DISEASE, HEPATITIS B/C And also restore broken relationships such as Ex HUSBAND, Ex WIFE, BROKEN MARRIAGES, Any kind of Problem in any relationship can be restore back in 24hours, Just Email: emutemple@gmail.com  Whatsapp or call: +2347012841542

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  11. How to Get Your Husband Back "I suggest you read my amazing testimony"
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    My name is Emily Sarah am from Tx,USA. My husband left me for another woman, This was just 3 years of our marriage. The most painful thing is that I was pregnant with our second baby. I wanted him back. I did everything within my reach to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so badly because of the love I had for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back , I had no choice than to try it. I messaged the spell caster called dr unity, and he assured me there was no problem and that everything will be okay before 11 hours. He cast the spell and surprisingly 11 hours later my husband called me. I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that had happened He wanted me to return to him. He also said he loved me so much. I was so happy and went to him that was how we started living together happily again.thanks to dr unity . if you are here and your Lover is turning you down, or your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore, contact Dr.Unity for help now..Here his contact,
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  12. I just got my ex husband back through the help of Dr OSOFO love spells Experts!..My husband left me for another woman, This was just 2 years of our marriage. The most painful thing is that I was pregnant with our second baby. I wanted him back. I did everything within my reach to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so badly because of the love I had for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back , I had no choice than to try it. I messaged the spell caster call Dr OSOFO and he assured me there was no problem and that everything will be okay before 11 hours. He cast the spell and surprisingly 9 hours later my husband called me. I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that had happened He wanted me to return to him. He also said he loved me so much. I was so happy andent to him that was how we started living together happily again.thanks to man, do not cry anymore, contact Dr.OSOFO for help now..Here his contact, WhatsApp him: +2349065749952 {or} Email him at: ( osofo.48hoursolutioncenter@gmail.com )  

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  14. Herbal medicine is 100% guaranteed to cure Penis Enlargement and long lasting The main reason why lots of people are finding it difficult to Enlarge penis and last long during xxx is because they so believe in medical report and drugs made of chemicals which cause damages to the body system. Dr Aziba herbal Herbal Product helped me Enlarge my penis and also save me my marriage of not being able to perform, so I'm recommending fellow m to contact Dr Aziba WhatsApp via +2348100368288 or Email : priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com for Natural Herbal Penis Enlargement Product








    Herbal medicine is 100% guaranteed to cure Penis Enlargement and long lasting The main reason why lots of people are finding it difficult to Enlarge penis and last long during xxx is because they so believe in medical report and drugs made of chemicals which cause damages to the body system. Dr Aziba herbal Herbal Product helped me Enlarge my penis and also save me my marriage of not being able to perform, so I'm recommending fellow m to contact Dr Aziba WhatsApp via +2348100368288 or Email : priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com for Natural Herbal Penis Enlargement Product


















    Herbal medicine is 100% guaranteed to cure Penis Enlargement and long lasting The main reason why lots of people are finding it difficult to Enlarge penis and last long during xxx is because they so believe in medical report and drugs made of chemicals which cause damages to the body system. Dr Aziba herbal Herbal Product helped me Enlarge my penis and also save me my marriage of not being able to perform, so I'm recommending fellow m to contact Dr Aziba WhatsApp via +2348100368288 or Email : priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com for Natural Herbal Penis Enlargement Product

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