FRIDAY, MAY 12, 2023
And also, concerning our tribe: Yesterday morning, on Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough voiced his puzzlement over one part of Wednesday night's town hall.
He said he was shocked by the audience:
SCARBOROUGH (5/11/23): I've got to say, the most shocking part was an audience who cheered on a president who tried to overturn democracy, an audience who mocked and ridiculed the woman who a jury of her peers, of Donald Trump's peers, found had been sexually assaulted. Those Americans there last night turned that into a punchline...
I could go on—I just could go on and on...On every front, you could go piece by piece by piece to talk about how breathtakingly dangerous what we saw was last night, this virus of lies that has been loosed on the American people.
But what we saw last night was—it was a propagandist, and it was a propagandist spewing lies repeatedly, over and over and over again, and an audience, an American audience, lapping it up.
We agree with the bulk of what Scarborough said. That said, it might be worthwhile to get clear about what lies behind some of that behavior.
For starters, we'll take a guess:
The audience laughed it up about E. Jean Carroll because they don't believe that the sexual assault ever took place. Trump has told them the whole thing's a hoax, a lie, and we'll guess that they believe that.
Also, they don't believe that the New York City jury was "a jury of his peers." They think the jury was composed of blue tribe Trump-haters. (There is, of course, an element of truth to the supposition that it's easier to get a verdict about some particular public figure in one locale rather than in some other.)
The dangerous state of affairs to which Scarborough refers has been in development for decades. It isn't derived from the crazily disordered behavior of Donald J. Trump alone.
The behavior of that audience surprised many observers. But that's the kind of thing which results from the creation of a public discourse in which we all retreat to our own tribe's silos to hear only the stories we like, with very large profits and salaries resulting when news orgs can keep tribals happy.
Our invention of 24-hour, partisan media is a dangerous type of invention. That audience struck us as extremely unwise, but they're also our neighbors and friends.
Also, they're our fellow citizens, and our highly self-impressed blue tribe has reams of blind spots too.
No single individual created our current array of heavily partisan "news orgs." But it's hard to run a large, diverse nation under such an epistemic burden. The wages of that "democratization" were on display Wednesday night.
Along somewhat similar lines: Last week, in the Washington Post, Meckler and Clement reported on an extensive survey concerning Americans' views on various transgender issues.
Headline included, their report began like this:
Most Americans support anti-trans policies favored by GOP, poll shows
Clear majorities of Americans support restrictions affecting transgender children, a Washington Post-KFF poll finds, offering political jet fuel for Republicans in state legislatures and Congress who are pushing measures restricting curriculum, sports participation and medical care.
Most Americans don’t believe it’s even possible to be a gender that differs from that assigned at birth. A 57 percent majority of adults said a person’s gender is determined from the start, with 43 percent saying it can differ.
That's the way the report began. Later, the reporters discussed a topic concerning which we've cited survey data before:
There is also wide support for limits on classroom conversation about gender identity with younger children. More than 3 in 4 adults said it was inappropriate to discuss trans identity with students in kindergarten through third grade, and nearly as many said the same for fourth and fifth grades.
It was a different story, though, for older students. People were roughly divided when asked about middle-schoolers, and nearly 2 in 3 supported discussion of trans identity in high school.
"More than 3 in 4 adults said it was inappropriate to discuss trans identity with students in kindergarten through third grade?"
Our own occasionally feckless tribe has spent a lot of time, within the past year, using this issue as a way to say that Ron DeSantis is a hideous demon transphobe. Wrapped up in our own delusions and in our vastly high self-regard, we may be just a trifle clueless about the way Others think.
For ourselves, we'd say such discussions in grades K-3 aren't inappropriate, assuming we decided to answer so fuzzy a question at all. (We have no idea what kinds of "discussions" are at issue here.)
That said, huddled together inside our silos, listening to the corporate scribes who are paid to please us on cable TV, many people in our tribe may be a trifle clueless about what's actually going on in the wider world, where more than 3 in 4 adults said they agree with DeSantis' original stance.
We like to call such Others names, and it's everyone's right to do that. That said, we're often extremely sure of ourselves. Also, we're often somewhat clueless, and our tribunes are sometimes a bit dishonest, or perhaps just dishonest-adjacent.
Many people just don't like us much. We rarely show any real sign of wanting to find out why.
(We could be wrong, but Claire McCaskill recently seemed to flip on this particular K-3 question. It seemed to us that our tribe's basic stance had possibly taken a 90-degree turn. We'll explain what we mean next week.)
I’ve always thought that the K-3 rule was entirely sensible. Just leave little kids alone.ReplyDelete
And no, that doesn’t mean avoid issues of gender confusion, or that everyone should vote for Donald Trump.
As predicted, DeSantis/Florida already expanded the law to K-12.Delete
Tell my minor kid he or she can be a boy or a girl and we're going to have a problem. Well, you are.ReplyDelete
Treats on the internet by transient trolls are soooo scary.Delete
Threats are bad, too.Delete
I have no problem with a K-3 rule, but I don't quite think that's happening anywhere.Delete
I just want kids to have fun at that age and not be concerned about sex or gender. Let them do what they want to do instinctively and just shut up about it.
I think most people agree with this -- including most liberals. But most liberals that I know are afraid to go against the Righteous Mob. So they stay quiet.
Just look how Bob gets attacked merely by bringing this up!
The people who chant "Let's Go Brandon" in public settings, are very concerned with the things children might hear.
Now, pull my other finger.
Gender is a social construct, with little utility.Delete
In reality, there are as many genders as there are people.
A woman is whoever identifies as a woman.
Gender’s only useful function is to identify groups that are being oppressed, in order to facilitate those groups obtaining rights to diminish the oppression.
Republicans are busy reinstating gender-based dress codes so the priviled and the oppressed will be more obvious to all. If you let girls wear pants, next thing they’ll want to play sports.Delete
The K-3 rule was almost immediately adjusted to be K-12, and it was written vaguely enough to accomplish it’s true intent, which is to have a chilling effect, so teachers will avoid mentioning sex and gender in positive ways that would be a benefit to their students.Delete
In order for kids to have fun, they need to be assured they won’t be bullied, harassed, and oppressed about how they instinctively feel about sex and gender.
Right wingers are people who are obsessed with dominance, mostly as a result of unresolved childhood trauma, often from sexual abuse. This abuse/trauma is cyclical and generational. In order to break the chain of generational abuse, it is vital that kids be educated about the true non binary nature of human beings.
The second amendment is evil.ReplyDelete
The people who chant "Let's Go Brandon" in public settings, are very concerned with the things children might hear.ReplyDelete
Now, pull my other finger.
They will not be able to discuss the true biography of Trump in Florida, as the bulk of it will violate standards of decency.ReplyDelete
Puerto Rico is evil.ReplyDelete
Republicans should support statehood for Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia.Delete
Speaking as a lib Dem, I would be utterly applauded if my President called names the way the still viable Trump does. If one did, I believe their would be mass defections in support for him or her. My President went on Fox News and answered questions from their leading star.ReplyDelete
Bob thinks the 24 hour news station is a central problem in our discourse. But he only reviews the one on the right, the most watched one, about ten percent of the time. His blog suggests someone being paid off by a Right wing sugar daddy, since his approach to critiquing media is partisan and makes no sense. He claims “we” status mostly to pretend he included himself among the flawed, but he will never even admits a mistake.
That Trump could fill a studio with the chronically not very bright who enjoy his debasing others and probably think it is gutsy to lie to get what you want should not be much of a surprise to Trump or anyone else. That many good people have been conditioned to hate the left so totally and effectively that they remain in support of Trump is awful, but not solved by sloughing their last of character on others. If you accused our own David in Ca of being capable of supporting what he now supports ten years ago he would have accused you of insulting him.
No one knows how this will play out or resolve itself. But endless capitulation and self directed scorn seems an unsafe bet for a good outcome.
Did you mean appalled instead of applauded? It makes more sense that way.Delete
Defund the Supreme Court.ReplyDelete
Do we have any reason to believe discussions of transsexualism came up a lot in grade school before the Right made it an issue?ReplyDelete
I'm sure there are some flaky teachers somewhere who bring it up, but not many. These horror stories are almost all manufactured. The rest are embroidered.
Now I do know of classrooms where kids are made to apologize to the indigenous peoples for taking their land where the school sits, but that's another issue.
Thanks.that is helpful. I would disagree with both policies.Delete
What is the harm in such an apology?Delete
We live in a giant spiral galaxy.ReplyDelete
Nazis didn’t like leftists either, Somerby. Were we supposed to go find out why? Is that what would have turned it all around?ReplyDelete
What a fucking moron Somerby is.
Like almost every Right-winger, Bob is an asshole, not a moron.Delete
Why not both?Delete
Somerby always comes across with a blaming tone, even when the left was uninvolved. We on the left didn’t choose Trump’s audience, the moderator, the format or the questions. But we are somehow blamed for being Dems instead of righties. Do we not have the right to choose our party without being blamed for the downfall of the world. What does Somerby mean when he calls the town hall “Democratization”? It was a televised Trump rally, especially after Collins gave up.ReplyDelete
Trump is the problem, not his audience and not CNN.ReplyDelete
"Many people don't like us much....." Says Bobby in a rare moment of introspection.ReplyDelete
“Our own occasionally feckless tribe has spent a lot of time, within the past year, using this issue as a way to say that Ron DeSantis is a hideous demon transphobe.”ReplyDelete
The issue of K-3 isn’t what makes DeSantis a transphobe.
DeSantis is a transphobe because he doesn’t like transgender people and wants them disappeared.
His K-3 and now K-12 ban reflects his transphobia.
As to that poll, and that Washington Post article:
The headline reads:
“Most Americans support anti-trans policies favored by GOP, poll shows”
Here are some actual results from the poll:
* 71% of adults support laws banning discrimination against trans people by medical professionals.
* 72% of adults support laws banning discrimination against trans people from getting health insurance.
* 69% of adults support laws banning discrimination against transgender people in K-12 schools.
* 73% of adults support laws banning discrimination against transgender people at colleges and universities.
* 73% of adults support laws banning discrimination against transgender people at their jobs and workplaces.
* 74% of adults support laws banning discrimination against transgender people in housing.
* 65% of adults support laws banning discrimination against transgender people in the U.S. military.
The article is garbage, and so is Somerby. He should go write for the fucking Washington post.
Here is a discussion that you will never hear about from BS:Delete
“A WaPo Poll Found That Significant Majorities Support Pro-Trans Policies, But Reported The Exact Opposite”
5 sec on Google finds other polls that demonstrate wide spread support for trans people among adults.Delete
There’s also a recent usatoday poll that shows wide spread support for wokeness.
Somerby routinely puts his thumb on the scale in order to advance his empty goal of manufacturing ignorance.
Republicans should defund Puerto Rico.ReplyDelete
Sorry, but Bob keeps assuming that there are rational reasons why people believe things that are not true. I don't have neighbors or friends who think that the sun comes up in the west no matter what you show them. They just have to be outvoted.ReplyDelete
Almost everyone agrees that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Most believe it moves across the southern sky, but some believe it moves across the northern sky.Delete
It'll be interesting to see if the Republican Party's strategy of calling the United States a bunch of deadbeats who can't pay their bills will be an electoral winner.ReplyDelete
It would be helpful when discussing trans issues for the author to inform people that be it body parts or chromosomes God is often a shit technician that screws up her work. So people are not always born a man or a woman and to believe so is moronic.ReplyDelete
Are you sure she screwed up her work? Maybe the result is just what she intended.Delete
If you truly believe this @9:01, why are you (and religious people in general) not more tolerant of trans people?Delete
9:01 is expressing tolerance, indeed saying that these people are not mistakes is a positive notion.Delete
Yes, but denying them health care is not.Delete
Health care should be available to all, equally.Delete
To have a system otherwise, is not just immoral, but counterproductive to having a thriving, healthy, and happy society.
Gender affirming health care for minors is vital, and the only surgery allowed is for top surgery, which requires a protocol of consultations with doctors and psychologists; however, top surgery for minors that is not gender affirming - breast reduction and enhancement - has no protocol, is routine, and receives no criticism from right wingers.Delete
Daily Kos is speculating that CNN firing Don Lemon was part of the deal CNN made to get Trump to appear at his town hall.ReplyDelete
"How badly did Donald Trump's CNN Town Hall fail? In the same format on the same network, President Biden drew more viewers than Trump."Delete
Why then is CNN so avidly courting Republican viewers?
"CNN should come to Trump towns to talk to non-Trump voters, who have been threatened and harassed into silence, before they lecture Americans about "staying in your silo."Delete
Progressives/leftists stop watching advertiser-based corporate cable news years ago, when New Media started burgeoning on platforms like YouTube.Delete
Advertising, marketing, and public relations are right wing tools used to keep the masses ignorant while right wing elites rob them blind, as pioneered by right winger Edward Bernays - who’s “philosophy” has been highly influential with our “local hero” Somerby.
"A former Trump White House adviser is shedding light on his questionable behavior toward young women who worked around him during his time in office.
According to The Daily Beast, Alyssa Farah Griffin — the former director of strategic communications for the Trump administration — is sharing her firsthand experience regarding things she'd personally seen during her time working in the West Wing.
Griffin, who now appears as a co-host on ABC's "The View," hopes her accounts will make other women think twice before working with Trump.
“Listen, the man’s the former commander-in-chief, he’s currently far and away the Republican frontrunner for president, and I think the American public needs to know who Donald Trump is,” Griffin explained.
“I saw behavior and engagement with very young junior female staffers from the former president that made me uncomfortable,” she said.
In fact, Griffin even went a step further describing the former president's behavior as “an open secret, open discussion in the West Wing.”
She added, “The way I was brought up, the way that I’ve behaved professionally is it is my duty to report that. So I took it to my direct report, which was the then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. He seemed very aware of the issue and said he was going to handle it.”
According to Griffin, no one took action to address Trump's behavior. While she acknowledged that she couldn't “say that definitively,” she also emphasized that the former president does have a behavioral pattern.
“It’s a pattern. It was visible. It didn’t take a genius to see it. It was reported, I don’t know if it was handled, but this is a man who does not respect women,” she continued. “It’s a man who objectified women.”
Weighing in on the case involving E. Jean Carroll, Griffin suggested that the allegations were not surprising given the former president's alleged history of similar behavior.
“We’ve heard it in his own words countless times. And I thought it was important to state it yet again after the E. Jean Carroll decision, because he’s now been found liable by a jury of his peers for predatory behavior. And if I could help protect any woman who might think about working around him, think about being around him, I just wanted to share that.”
I think Somerby's idea about tribes is silly.There are two main political parties that people affiliate with in order to vote in elections. Describing all the rest of peoples social and demographic similarities and differences as "tribes" when people don't think of themselves that way is just confusing and unhelpful. At best, Somerby seems to be saying that people have a propensity to affiliate with others in groups that help form their identities, but welcome to Social Psychology (which Somerby has never mentioned). The possible ways that people can affiliate are endless, not red or blue.ReplyDelete
Somerby has created an artificial language of his own for talking about people's differences, but it doesn't correspond to anything meaningful in real life. For example, women in Trump's administration are now describing his inappropriate behavior with young staffers and complaining that nothing was done about their reports while he was president. They are not surprised by the E. Jean Carroll verdict. Are those female administrators red or feminist or objecting to modern #MeToo attitudes about male privilege? Are they woke? Or are they fed up with Trump's lack of respect for half of his base? What tribe are these women?
Somerby will not support their concerns. He dislikes women and will probably think they are piling on an unfair trial result, since Trump is just doing what has been done for millions of years, when you're a star and own a casting couch. And that's all Somerby talk of tribes means to him. That red tribe that deserves to be heeded, doesn't include the women who worked in Trump's White House.
By Tribes or tribal, Bob is suggesting people take a position agreeing the prescribed take of whatever group they roughly identify without any further consideration. I think that is fair as fair as it goes. But are most people really like that? Do they hold to a straight party ballot on all issues? I'm not sure. But I do know Bob seems to only identify tribalism as a problem when he is talking about the left tribe.ReplyDelete
What ever happened to AM radio?ReplyDelete