WEDNESDAY, JULY 5, 2023
Also, one way to avoid going broke: We won't be posting for the rest of the week and possibly for a while longer.
Yes, it's a surgical procedure! We expect to be back next week.
Meanwhile, we apologize for the way we've wandered the countryside in the course of examining the Mississippi miracle. A fair amount of dislocation was caused by the medical situation being addressed today.
Apology given, we add this:
No one ever went broke doubting the accuracy and competence of feel-good press corps reports concerning "Schools That Work." The Mississippi miracle is the latest in a string of such feel-good reports, dating back fifty years.
We applaud the efforts people have made in Mississippi to improve the state's public schools. That said, there's zero excuse for the journalism about those efforts offered by the Associated Press, then by the New York Times.
We regret that we haven't had a chance to walk you back through the Michelle Rhee chapter in this fifty-year story. Believe it or not, there is a Mississippi connection to the Rhee years in D.C. We may look back through the Rhee story upon our return.
Mississippi is full of good, decent kids. Our mainstream press corps is full of people who love love love love love love love that "Schools That Work" Storyline.
Repeatedly, they bring the Storyline forward again. Our "education experts," such as they are, rarely step up to elucidate or to complain.=.
That state is full of good, decent kids. They and their very good, decent parents deserve much better than this.
Gaming the System with Grade Retention: The Politics of Reading Crisis Pt. 3 https://radicalscholarship.com/2023/07/05/gaming-the-system-with-grade-retention-the-politics-of-reading-crisis-pt-3/
ReplyDeleteI highly recommend this paper by Dr. Thomas for its review of the history of the Science of Reading movement:
Deletehttps://nepc.colorado.edu/libraries/pdf.js/web/viewer.html?file=https://nepc.colorado.edu/sites/default/files/publications/PB%20Thomas_0.pdf
In his paper, he makes the following recommendations:
"End narrowly prescriptive non-research-based policies and programs such as:
o Grade retention based on reading performance.
o High-stakes reading testing at Grade 3.
o Mandates and bans that require or prohibit specific instructional practices, such
as systematic phonics and the three-cueing approach.
o A “one-size-fits-all” approach to dyslexia and struggling readers."
I have mixed feelings about ending the retention and testing implemented in MS because at least this testing focuses attention on the individual students who are not learning to read using existing approaches. The retention of 71% of black students is draconian, but allowing students to move through the grades without learning to read strikes me as worse. It seems to me that this was the alternative for black kids in MS.
I have read several accounts of the lack of training in reading instruction preexisting this legislation too. If teachers were poorly trained, a mandate that they receive more and better training strikes me as a step in the right direction, even if it comes along with a phonics mandate. The insistence that reading specialists work with retained students, seems like a way for individual students who are struggling to read to receive more individualized instruction.
I am curious about Dr. Thomas's reaction to these aspects of the MS legislative mandate. It is always difficult to know what is actually happening in the classroom for black students, but their improvement in scores seems encouraging, not a reason to knock the MS efforts.
"We applaud the efforts people have made in Mississippi to improve the state's public schools. That said, there's zero excuse for the journalism about those efforts offered by the Associated Press, then by the New York Times."
ReplyDeleteYou do not "applaud" efforts by accusing people of cheating without evidence.
“You do not "applaud" efforts by accusing people of cheating without evidence.”
ReplyDeleteBut anonymices do applaud vicious and false accusations against Somerby. Such as the one you just made.
Fuck off
DeleteFirst Somerby says this on May 30, 2023 (and subsequently):
Delete"We're speaking about deliberate cheating on standardized tests in the public schools, yielding those "miracle" stories. And yes, we're talking about outright "cheating"—not about milder conduct which might be described as "test prep," or even as "teaching to the test."
Then he said this in the same essay:
"This has no direct connection to the alleged "Mississippi miracle:"
We are not suggesting that some such cheating has been involved in the improved statewide Naep scores in Grade 4 reading in the state of Mississippi.
We make no such suggestion. We know of zero reason—none at all—to say that any such cheating has been involved in those large test score gains, which the Associated Press discussed in this May 17 report. "
Then he said this:
"Over the course of the past fifty years, major news orgs have routinely thrilled to heartwarming claims of miraculous test score gains.
Everybody loves the story of the little, low-performing school or school system which could! Everybody loves the story of the underperforming school which found a way to produce miraculous gains...
Our journalists have always loved those stories. Our experts have kept their traps shut.
Routinely, such stories have turned out to be bogus. But nothing cools the desire to believe in The Low-Income Grade School Which Could.
It seems to us that a similar type of gullibility may be surrounding those "heartening" claims about the AP's "Mississippi miracle." It seems to us that the AP report blew right past a certain reform in Mississippi which may have created a situation in which that pleasing rise in Grade 4 scores may not quite be what it seems.
Again, we know of zero reason to think that anyone in Mississippi has actually done something wrong. But oh, what kind of journalism is this which goes from bad to briefly aware, and then tilts back toward worse?"
So, which is it? Did MS cheat or didn't it? According to Somerby, these journalist produce bogus reports all the time. He also admits that he has no evidence of cheating in MS. But those journalists are always reporting bogus results!
He concludes with this:
"In this case, the cheating had been going on forever. Somehow, it had gone undiscussed!"
So, I repeat, you do not applaud efforts by accusing people of cheating without evidence.
These are Somerby's own words, Cecelia. If anyone has been vicious here, it is Somerby, all while maintaining plausible deniability in case anyone points out that he has NO FUCKING EVIDENCE that anyone cheated in MS, and thus no reason to call for the press to remain skeptical about their results.
Anonymouse 11:04am, you know why you’re so confused by the easily discernible difference between teachers changing answers on a test from how a high rate of retention may affect test scores?
DeleteYou WANT to be confused.
anon 11:01 - he goes out of his way to say that he isn't claiming Mississippi's results were due to the type of fraud that happened elsewhere. His thing is that the media always grabs these feel-good stories instead of devoting real attention to what's going on in the schools, and the Mississippi "miracle" is another example of that. Whether TDH is right or not on that point - I don't have a strong conviction. But it would be better in my opinion if you showed a greater ability to show some objectivity and instead of misreading things, seemingly because of your bias.
DeleteWhy is it wrong to feel good when students make progress? Why would a former teacher work so hard to deny that this every happens?
DeleteI have not been misreading Somerby. He has presented a series of specious statistical criticisms, none of which have merit (and I say this as someone who has taught college-level stats), in order to convince readers that MS is lying about its results. I'm supposed to stand by silently while Somerby tries to hoodwink his readers, for political purposes.
I am not the confused one around here. Somerby does not deserve your knee-jerk defense of his disinformation. I am surprised that you would go so far out on a limb over something you know nothing about.
"Gaming the system" means cheating.
Delete“ how a high rate of retention may affect test scores”
DeleteThis is speculation on the part of Somerby. He offers no data or research that establishes a factual basis for this assertion. In fact, the data tends to disprove this notion.
These Somerby defenders are the same ones that defend Trump when he engages in corrupt behavior but is careful to avoid explicitly implicating himself.
DeleteWhen it’s their “hero” suddenly notions like context and implication are foreign to them. Suddenly their capabilities to comprehend ends with excessive literalism. Worse, they get coy about it, acting as if the accuser is to blame, they clutch their pearls, shocked someone would suggest these critiques when after all Somerby never literally said MS cheated.
“Why is it wrong to feel good when students make progress? Why would a former teacher work so hard to deny that this every happens? “
DeleteBecause it’s … not really progress?
And yet Somerby has provided no evidence to support his belief that there was no progress. Who do you believe -- NAEP or Somerby? Remember that Somerby himself said the test was cheat-proof. And Somerby has provided no evidence that retention caused the higher scores, nor has he addressed the criticisms of that theory raised here in comments.
DeleteRetention has been going on for over 100 years, but these score gains have only been evident after the implementation of new procedures and training in the MS schools. That should tell you something about Somerby's theory.
Good health Bob!
ReplyDeletePerhaps when Somerby recovers his health, he will find a new leisure activity and stop writing garbage here.
DeleteGuess what? You're not required to read him! YOU can find a new leisure activity.
DeleteAnd guess what. You are not required to read any comment posted by anybody either. YOU can let people say what they want in their comments, because that is what makes this a free country. Who calls himself Dogface anyway?
DeleteIf you would give your name, instead of hiding behind "Anonymous," I could know to pass over your comments.
DeleteDogface, giving a name to blind faith does not redeem blind faith.
DeleteI have a dream, that one day I’ll be judged by the content of my comment, not by my colorful name, or lack thereof.
Your dream has come true.
Delete"Our mainstream press corps is full of people who love love love love love love love that "Schools That Work" Storyline."
ReplyDeleteMost of the kids being retained are black in a state that was the most segregated in the nation. The NAEP is nonpolitical. Both black and white scores on it have increased. That is evidence too, that cannot be argued away by claiming kids were retained or the test was "gamed". The kids who were tested are reading at the level reported, however they got there and whatever their age in grade level.
The complaint about retention and NAEP scores appears to be (quoting from P.L. Thomas's work):
"(1) removing students likely to score low from the testing pool (students retained in 3rd grade would not be in their peer testing pool in 4th grade) and
(2) creating a population of students to be tested when at least one year biologically older than the pool being testing (once those retained in 3rd grade are promoted to 4th grade)."
The NAEP is given at intervals, not every year. The students who were removed via retention in 2022 would be replaced by students previously retained in 2021 and now in 4th grade, since the retention policy has affected NAEP since at least 2002. Those new fourth graders are identifiable by their older ages. As mh showed, their scores as a group do not inflate the NAEP results but lower them, because the older students have a lower mean than the younger ones on the 2022 NAEP.
In his examination of the MS Miracle, Somerby himself showed that scores for black students had increased, not just those for white students. According to P.L. Thomas, 71% of black students were retained in MS (2018-2019). Those kids didn't take the NAEP. The ones retained in 2021 did. Although they are being retained, they are also producing gains in NAEP testing (disaggregating black students from white).
It is unclear to me why such gains do not represent actual learning. I do not believe that kids learn simply by getting older -- they require exposure to material and instruction for that. I also do not understand why the scores "fading" in 8th grade testing represents a failure to learn in 4th grade, as P.L. Thomas asserts. The 8th grade NAEP test has different kinds of questions and tests comprehension of more difficult material. The failure to further develop reading skills in 4th through 7th grades is a distinct question from acquiring 3rd grade level ability to read.
I am concerned that such a large percentage of black kids are being retained (which suggests they are not learning to read by 3rd grade). That racial imbalance suggests a neglect of black kids in terms of resources and instruction in K-3rd grades that should be specifically addressed as a racial inequity.
The politicization of reading policy has surely interfered with efforts to teach all kids to read. This isn't simply a matter of disagreement about the best approach, but it is coupled with efforts to defund public schools and substitute segregated, political, religious instruction for white kids while addressing the needs of black kids via retention, perhaps without mandated specialized teaching.
This isn't about whether there is a miracle or not. It is about using our children as political hostages instead of helping ALL children to achieve their maximum potential in a supportive learning environment.
Does anyone imagine that when 71% of black students are retained, that the kids don't notice who is being held back and who is not? There are several reasons why black kids might drop out in high school, that have nothing to do with whether retention in 3rd grade helps kids learn to read better. MS had little desire to educate its black children historically and little seems to have changed in that regard. Address racism and poverty and the black reading gap will diminish.
I believe that reading instruction should be left to reading specialists and experts, NOT politicians. Somerby hates Michelle Rhee. I can't wait to hear a rehash of her 50 year old crimes. If conservatives were not financially vested in alternative teaching approaches, we might think they had the welfare of students in mind, but this is ultimately about money and political power. Needless to say, it shouldn't be.
ReplyDeletehttps://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2023/02/michelle-rhee-is-back.html
Which experts? Are there not experts with varying recommendations?
DeleteAlso, how do people establish their expertise? By academic degrees or by having had long success at teaching kids to read?
Academic credentials, because academics have already studied the methods of people who have had long success at teaching kids to read, because that's what they do. Also they study methods based on new discoveries about how people's minds work while reading and how people think. And they study how to teach, regardless of content, and how to manage a class full of children.
DeleteA person who knows a variety of methods will be better able to figure out how to meet the needs of individual children who vary.
@10:18 Your answer sounds reasonable, but I am not so sure. Set reading aside. In many other areas, there is a difference of opinion between the people actually working in the area and the credentialed experts. IMO the reason is the goal of each group.
DeleteA person manufacturing and selling widgets wants to sell more widgets. If a competitor finds an improvement, the person will eagerly copy that improvement. He doesn't want credit for the improvement. He wants to sell more widgets.
OTOH the expert wants credit for advancing the field. An expert will not be rewarded for simply saying the the current methods are fine.
I suspect a similar dynamic applies to the teaching of reading. An expert who simply says, "Continue to use phonics" will not get publishable papers or speaking engagements or consulting gigs. The expert has to come up with something new and differen
...new and different and complicated.
DeleteYes, quacks always have better products than trained researchers, especially in medicine. You go to it, David.
DeleteDavid’s lack of insight about human nature exposes his own tortured human nature which leads to his odd and nonsensical claims.
DeleteOne more word out of you and I'm gonna shadowban ya.
DeleteIf I were mm I would try to think a little bit more before I post.
ReplyDeleteSo that would make you “hmm”.
DeleteIs this comment a rabbit or a duck?
DeleteBob has hunkered down in Mississippi because the real news of the day is very troubling and fearful. But beyond that, he has encouraged or signed off on so much of what Trump and his enablers have done even he can't keep a steady hand applying lipstick to the pig in question.
ReplyDeleteAt best he could say, these crimes of Trump's being exposed and indicted could lead to a response on the Right that puts Trump in the White House once again. That is quite possible, but I still hold out enough hope for the US that it is highly unlikely.
In one paragraph today Bob says everything he has blabbered about now for two weeks.
The latest injunction against the Biden White House to cease their Orwellian, neo Macarthyite regime of censorship and free speech suppression is a good first step taking our country back from these fascists.
ReplyDeleteThe Biden administration didn't violate the First Amendment.
DeleteThe Trump appointee that rendered the judgement has been thoroughly lambasted by legal scholars, so LOL. And speaking of the executive branch and the law, here is a pair of numbers to consider for the years from 1970-2020. Number of indictments resulting in convictions. Republican: 124. Democrat: 3. The party of " law and order" that is your pride and joy has an unusual way of demonstrating that. But you don't care about their track record or what it signifies.
DeleteRight wingers don't deserve free speech. Because of bigotry. Or something.
DeleteMany legal scholars have laughed and said the Biden White House would never censor opposition to COVID-19 vaccines; opposition to
DeleteCOVID-19 masking and lockdowns; opposition to the lab-leak theory of COVID-19; opposition to the validity of the 2020 election; opposition to President Biden’s policies; statements that the Hunter Biden laptop story was true; and opposition to policies of the government officials in power.
It's not like the first amendment is that big a deal.
DeletePeople don't have the right to scream fire in a burning theater unless the government declares that it is actually burning.
Americans don't have the right to be wrong.
DeleteAnymore.
According to fascist Democrats.
The Trump appointed a judge who rendered the judgment made up all the facts.
DeleteIt is interesting that generations will look back at this time from 2016 to 2023 as a time the American political class went through an insane bout of neo McCarthy hysteria and mass censorship. And we all lived through it!
DeleteIt's good that they are caught and it is all out in the open now. Because it's very very important that we hang on to our right to free speech.
I guess at this point Democrats are just waiting for talking points.
DeleteHa. Sorry Mao. The sick lies of you and your leader will catch up with you.
DeleteDemocrats can know they took part in something historical.
Delete@7:18 Regardless of whether the 1st Amendment applies to government pressure on media outlets, would you not agree that it's in the public interest to have full access to news? E.g., shouldn't the Biden laptop's validity have been known by the public? Shouldn't the strong possibility that covid came from a lab leak have been known? Shouldn't US support for Gain-of-Function research in the Wuhan Lab have been known?
DeleteThe current incarnation of Democrats have been comfortable with smothering other's first amendment rights.
DeleteThey got a small whiff of the power of censorship, thought they wouldn't get caught and en masse got absolutely sloshed on it. Just blitzed.
It's good they got caught. Now we can all consider together as a country how we are going to address the right to free speech in these new times.
It's good to have a clear example from the Biden White House on what not to do and the seductive power of censorship in the age of social media.
What happened to Mao? Did I miss his polite goodbye or a cuss-out and door slamming?
DeletePeople who are spreading disinformation are not part of protected speech, especially when it costs lives. 1.1 million people died of covid. Disinformation is akin to enemy propaganda during the world wars. It harms the nation. I believe it should fall under disallowed speech, like crying fire in a crowded theater. That too is disinformation that causes people to panic and behave against their safety.
DeleteI do not believe that baseless conspiracy theories deserve to be protected speech either. Unlike you, I trust the government to know what is disinformation or propaganda and what is controversy.
What is the difference between speculation about where covid originated and a conspiracy theory. The latter attributes covid to deliberate acts by someone like Bill Gates or Fauci, which is ridiculous and may cause harm to innocent individuals. The attempts to harm Biden via political propaganda are obvious. Circulating Hunter's dick pics has no public value and violates his privacy. That YOU would advocate for this shows where you are coming from David.
Are you aware of DeSantis's efforts to avoid public accountability in FL? Why haven't you written about that if this issue of "public interest" concerns you?
Cecelia, Mao lives down the corridor from you at the troll farm. Go ask him yourself.
DeleteThe Democrats were sloshed on the power of censorship and were asking Facebook and Twitter to take down posts that were pure and simple political speech. Not disinformation. It was a very sad display for our country. We will look back at this time as a dark time when the Democrats in power became inebriated with the power to censor and didn't think they would get caught. But we will all learn from it and move on. We have to legislate these important issues. Who decides information? How? Trump could become president and get in trouble and declare any evidence against him disinformation. Or whoever. Even though the Democrats will go down in history as the party who turned their back on the first amendment, we need not judge at this point. We need just fix these issues in a bipartisan way and remember that we're all capable of extreme greed and lust for power . we've all gotten caught cheating at some time or another. There's no need to label Democrats the party of cheaters.
DeleteThe public value of the Hunter Biden shots was to show tha the White House had the power to ask for them to be removed. This is a power no one else has. You and I for example.
DeleteIt's a really bad idea to trust the government with information. It's one of the worst ideas anyone in the world has ever had.
DeleteThey should have been removed, no matter who asked.
DeleteDick pics of relatives of people in office are not political speech.
DeleteAnonymouse 11:59am, meh…
Delete"They should have been removed, no matter who asked."
DeleteWe don't have a direct line to inside of Twitter like Biden does.
Jill was literally asking to have posts removed that had pictures of rooms whose curtains she didn't like.
Fauci was hiding information that made him look bad.
DeleteNo he wasn’t.
DeleteFauci’s research had nothing to do with covid.
DeleteFauci colluded with others to cover up the Government’s involvement in “gain of function” research at the Wuhan lab in China, which may have resulted in the creation of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Delete
The gain of function research had nothing to do with covid and could not have caused it. He did not collude or hide it. It was published research. You guys are idiots who will believe anything.
DeleteSounds like you've been reading state approved information. 🥰
DeleteThat's makes it all the more curious why Fauci would lie about and censor people telling the truth about it.
DeleteAll of this triggered nonsense is false, it’s easy to laugh at 5:57, but it’s sad too, how someone reaches such a wounded state.
DeleteThe injunction will most likely be removed on appeal, primarily due to its poor reasoning and lack of legal validity.
Regardless, the judge’s injunction has enormous carve outs that even contradict other aspects of his own ruling:
“The Biden administration may continue to inform social networks about posts involving criminal activity or criminal conspiracies, national security threats, extortion, criminal efforts to suppress voting, illegal campaign contributions, cyberattacks against election infrastructure, foreign attempts to influence elections, threats to public safety and security, and posts intending to mislead voters about voting requirements and procedures.
The US can also exercise "permissible public government speech promoting government policies or views on matters of public concern," communicate with social networks "in an effort to detect, prevent, or mitigate malicious cyber activity," and "communicat[e] with social-media companies about deleting, removing, suppressing, or reducing posts on social-media platforms that are not protected free speech by the Free Speech Clause in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution."
These exceptions such as “threats to public safety” and “criminal activity” and “national security threats” are broad and vague, and easily include the examples the judge gave of “coercion”. The judge’s ruling, to be frank, is a laughable embarrassment for right wingers.
There’s no evidence of a lab leak, therefore it’s rated by experts as “low confidence”. (If anything, a US lab leak is more likely, there are anecdotal reports of people with Covid symptoms in the US as early as 10/19)
Yes anyone can ask Twitter to remove photos, they do, and it happens all the time; revenge porn is criminal activity.
Elon Musk has been working with Modi to suppress free speech in India, in order to maintain fascistic power there, so, as usual, right wing nonsense comes with the attendant hypocrisy.
Right wingers generally fail to understand that the 1st Amendment has to do with *government* restricting *protected speech*, so, constitutionally, you can’t just say anything you want at anytime, and non governmental entities can censor you as they like.
Wake me when a right winger makes a valid point.
July 6, 2023 at 1:21 PM
DeleteThe public value of the Hunter Biden shots was to show tha the White House had the power to ask for them to be removed. This is a power no one else has. You and I for example.
You are an idiot. Who occupied the White House at the time?
You can come out from under your bed now.
That is not very nice! Isn't the question who contacted Twitter directly demanding they be removed?
Delete5:02 I guess you misunderstood or misread the coercion part. But yes those carve outs are great. And yes when you read the injunction you get a real insight into the problem and how difficult it is and how it is not a partisan issue at all. Far from it. It is a bipartisan issue and addressing it is not or should not be looked at as laying blame on either one. It is very very important for all of us to iron this out. What is disinformation? Who makes that decision? How is it measured? People have the right to be wrong and to be as completely crazy as they want in what they say. This has to be discussed in a serious way and legislated. It's a serious serious issue.
DeleteAsk some of those J6 convicts how they feel about disinformation.
DeleteIt has gotten to the point when a segment of our population questions "what is disinformation?", as if there are such a things as alternative facts. Suggesting the use of what have proven to be ineffective treatments for COVID or that the vaccine is ineffective or more dangerous than the virus are all falsehoods that are dangerous to segments of the public who like to latch on to conspiracy theories. The facts surrounding the origins of COVID and what role research funded by the US may have played has complexity that is not honestly addressed by partisan sound bites and can be debated in good faith although the consensus generally at this time is that it was community originated. In any event the Trump administration had brilliantly cut off funding that paid the monitor of the Chinese research. Putting out pornographic imagery of a private citizen obtained by rummaging through his computer has nothing to do with the first amendment and irrespective that Hunter Biden is a bad actor, he can litigate against the purveyor of that garbage, hopefully successfully. The idea that historians will mark this as a time in which fascist Democrats usurped the rights of citizens in this country is a far right wing wet dream.
DeleteYes!
Delete7:20 one of the problems you’re apparently having is that you misunderstand the “coercion” part and how it is contradicted by the exemptions. If genuine, this problem is not innate to your nature, but a product of your experiences that were less than optimal, and if so, I offer my sympathies and hope for healing.
DeleteThe injunction is poorly written and poorly reasoned, it’s not a serious document, it’s a rant from a right wing loon.
Private entities, such as social media, can promote or delete any legal material they want. It is good for society that in cases where an entity promotes things that are criminal or threats to public safety, there is an institution that can provide a corrective service.
Even in cases that involve an individual or a corporation, there are remedies, for example, when E Jean Carroll successfully sued Trump, or when Fox News was sued by Dominion and had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars.
‘What is truth” can be an interesting philosophical exploration, but in that context the question bears no role in policy or legislation. What we do have is science, where we study subjects applying the scientific method, which has been shown to accurately map and predict reality.
Our society has long had systems and institutions that provide guardrails, gate keeping, audits, checks and balances; however, it has always been a battle with right wingers who want unfettered engagement with behavior that results in them attaining and maintaining dominance over others.
These notions have long been part of our discourse, and even litigated, for example, we have the Chevron doctrine that recognizes expertise is required to make decisions that affect society. Sadly, even though Chevron was once hailed by even right wingers, in recent times it has been rolled back by an extremist right wing Supreme Court.
Such is the mockery right wingers make of society.
Then why did the Biden White House censor information that later turned out to be true?
Delete"What we do have is science, where we study subjects applying the scientific method, which has been shown to accurately map and predict reality."
DeleteThat didn't do us any good when we believed the power structures who all said the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
That is an example of "systems and institutions" censoring something that is true, denying people their right to free speech. Wouldn't you agree?
It is true that Biden had a laptop. None of the rest of what is said by the right about Hunter Biden is true. It is a lame attempt to distract attention from Trump's crimes.
DeleteThe issue is that the reports about it were real, but those reports were censored by our government. Our government said that it was Russian disinformation. Which it wasn't.
DeleteThe issue is the people whom we trusted to protect us from disinformation did the opposite. They censored true information claiming it was something it wasn't.
"It is true that Biden had a laptop."
DeleteThat means it is disinformation to say that he didn't. Which is exactly what the govt did.
What government, asshole? Trump's?
DeleteNot Trump's. The FBI and CIA part of our government.
DeleteThey wrote a letter saying it was Russian disinformation. This was at the behest of the Biden Campaign according to testimony.
But yes, when the Democrats took over after Trump was when the censorship activities went infatuate and a pernicious lunacy took over the highest levels of power.
DeleteHistory will never forget it.
The FBI and CIA wrote a letter? The guys who were working for Trump wrote a letter? No shit, Boris! And censorship too? Oh my gosh. However will Vladimir be able to do his ratfucking if people are alert to it now? Big problem for Vlad.
DeleteSorry but you're not really on the right track. You haven't availed yourself to the facts.
DeleteDon't feel bad. The Democrats aren't the only party in history to immorally violate our country's deepest principles.
DeleteIt doesn't mean they're still not a damn fine party.
Sorry, I was trying to understand your bullshit claim.
DeleteCheck with Rudy, I think he's about to turn rat on your treasonous orange hero. It's ok, don't worry, there are plenty of dumb Americans who will believe your bullshit.
No big deal, just tell Vlad better luck next time. You can't win them all.
DeleteDemocrats did censor speech, according to reports.
DeleteBy Democrats do you mean the father who asked that his son’s dick not be spread all over the internet by a Chinese funded associate of Steve Bannon?
DeleteIf the laptop was in someone else’s hands, it is truthful to say Dems didn’t have it.
DeleteScientists were silenced.
DeleteBy Trump and DeSantis.
DeleteThe Hunter Laptop fiasco has been going on for so long that if anyone thought that there was substance to it they are surely disappointed and embarrassed by their naivete by now. How many APBs have been put out for whistleblower's informants at this point? Almost as embarrassing as roughly a dozen republican forays, each sequentially exonerating Clinton in the Bengazi raid. But let's not underestimate congressional republican resolve to string this out until November 2024. And of course if Trump is the nominee there will be plenty of attempted Russian interference in that election, insofar as Biden has been involved in supporting Ukraine while Trump applauded Putin for invading a sovereign country. At a certain point Trump can be considered a proxy for all those misguided souls whose allegiance to this country and its values are so easily manipulated as to call into question their so called patriotism.
DeleteThe hunter laptop story is something that people have the first amendment right to speak about. The FBI censored the story. They got caught. Which is good because what they did was wrong.
DeleteThe substance to the Hunter Biden laptop story is the FBI misled social-media companies into believing the Hunter Biden laptop story was Russian disinformation.
Delete12:27. Your version of reality is not supported by fact. The FBI was concerned that the hard drive material, whose chain of custody could not be verified, but included serial liars such as Steve Bannon and Rudy Giulliani, could very well have been manipulated by the Russians who had a well established track record of manipulating the public using social media prior to Trump's election, and favoring him. Mark Zuckerberg via Facebook had played a role in allowing false Russian content to favor Trump over Clinton, tilting the election towards Trump, along with the FBI's James Comey. There is no disputing these facts. Given this history , the FBI was dubious of the hard drive material. The white House likewise warned Zuckerberg that this material would become public. Given that Rudy and Bannon had had their hands on it the material was considered potentially dirty by Zuckerberg who had already been burned by dishonest agents working in favor of Trump. What censoring of Facebook material occurred was done by Facebook.
DeleteSo no, the FBI nor the White House censored anything. Show us where the FBI or White House specifically ordered the suppression of information within the domain of social media or news organizations in general. That constitutes censorship. Did not happen, has not been reported as such, so quit your whining. You got a presidency out of such media manipulation by Russia and the FBI, so be happy for that and shut the hell up with your nonsense.
DeleteUnamhused,
DeleteThe FBI coerced social media companies to suppress the laptop story. The dispositive question is “whether the State has exercised coercive power or has provided such significant encouragement that the choice must in law be deemed to be that of the State.”
Let's leave aside for a minute the excuses the FBI gave after they were caught and ask ourselves if the FBI used meetings and communications with social-media companies to pressure them to take down, reduce, and suppress the free speech of American citizens? Did they flag posts and provide information on the type of posts they wanted suppressed? Did they follow up with directives to the social-media companies to provide them with information as to action the company had taken with regard to the flagged post?
I do want to thank you again for sharing uncritically the excuses the FBI has given us after they were caught but let's ask ourselves these heterodox types of questions for now.
Would that be amenable?
I would be more than willing to discuss Dr Fauci and the federal agency where he was director for 38 years that funded research at the Wuhan lab in Wuhan.
DeletePerhaps you can assemble the excuses he made after he was caught suppressing that information.
mm - the FBI censored the laptop story because it could have impacted Biden's election chances.
DeleteAny subsequent stories they made up after getting caught are false.
3:23 AM, I eagerly look forward to Rudy the Rat explaining everything.
DeleteThese comments are not on topic. Trolls come here and write garbage comments to derail discussion. If you cannot stay on topic, go away.
DeleteThe Biden White House has been caught violating millions of our citizen's most precious, bedrock constitutional rights. They had a system set up where they could basically suppress anything they wanted and boy oh boy did they ever use it. Would you like to go into specific details of case after case?
DeleteWe can start with the laptop story if you want. Tucker Biden left a laptop in a repair shop with all sorts of incriminating evidence on it including evidence that questions whether or not the president himself was performing influence pedaling operations with foreign countries like China.
DeleteBecause this makes the president look bad the FBI ended number of other security agencies went about pretending like it was Russia distance but they knew that was a lie. I can walk you through all the details one by one by one if you would like.
Isn't it interesting that the FBI thought that Trump was colluding with Russia and did this big investigation into it and it turned out to be completely false?
DeleteAnd then they thought that Russia was giving bounties in Afghanistan, right the very week that Trump was about to leave Afghanistan all of a sudden they found that Russia was giving bounties there. And that turned out to be false. Isn't that weird?
And then this Hunter might laptop they thought it was Russian disinformation! They sent out a big letter and the story about the laptop was censored based on what the letter said about Russian disinformation. And that turned out to be completely. false.
In July of 2016 the Clinton campaign was trying to tie Trump to Russia in some weird cockamamie story that turned out to be completely false?
Bringing Russia into these sticky controversies seems to be the only play they know! And they seem to be wrong about it every time. Isn't that strange?
We can skip over the laptop story though if you want. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of other stories of blatant outright censorship on the part of the Biden White House and the FBI.
DeleteWe can start with another aspect of the case if you want. But strap yourself in because there are so so many stories of blatant censorship.
If there's some confusion over the content that Dr. Jill Biden's office had censored, I can go over this exact specifics for you if you would like.
DeleteSo many social media companies were getting so many calls from so many different departments inside the Biden White House, they had to plead with the White House to set up some kind of structured and streamlined system for processing their non-stop censorship requests
DeleteThese are right wing trolls spreading disinformation. These comments are not on topic and they are annoying to those who might wish to talk about what Somerby posted.
DeleteAnd of course the government holds complete power over the tech companies. Over and over out in public, in front of everyone the Biden White House was constantly threatening the tech companies with antitrust legislation and other legislation if they didn't agree to their daily censorship requests. We know now from emails that inside the tech companies, they knew it was total bs. They knew it wasn't Russia causing their unconstitutional censorship requests. It was purely political. It's all very much out in the open. It's not debatable. They've been caught red-handed.
DeleteThe orgy of unconstitutional censorship that took over the Biden White House, like a madness or a plague, is not up for debate.
DeleteAll the facts are in evidence and not even the Biden White House has disputed them.
It's over. They have been caught. They have been caught red-handed. All we can do now is move on as a country. If you want to pretend it didn't happen, I can see why.
Right wing comments like this convince no one and are a waste of time for you to type and us to read. Please go do something more useful with your time.
Delete9:57
DeleteLet's count all the times Russia has been brought in to these controversies. The summer of 2016 before Trump was elected the Clinton campaign made accusations tire him to Russia that turned out to be fall the FBI started big investigation based on a dossier the Clinton campaign gave them the all of that turned out to be false. The laptop all of these really smart guys thought it was Russian dis information and they all turned out to be completely and totally wrong about. The Afghanistan bounties that Russia was giving, there's that one. That turned out to be completely false. What else? Why always russia? They should mix it up and blame Portugal every so often.
You think that the laptop was Russian disinformation?
DeleteIt's funny that Democrats usual propagandists all really haven't gotten the memo on this one so there's not as much pushback as usual or the pushback is really broad like this person here today can really just claim oh you're a right-wing troll without addressing the substance of the accusations at all. They're little robots and they haven't been instructed on what to say yet.
DeleteAnd it's hard to come up with an excuse as you can't really blame Russia on this one. And they're caught so red-handed. We have all of the emails. There's just simply no debate about it. So what can they really say?
It has to be kind of embarrassing for a political party you support to get caught red-handed throwing the first amendment in the trash. It's not the greatest look.
DeleteAnd what can you say? "No they did not do that. You are a troll." I guess that's all you can really say. But you're forgetting that we have all their emails. They are caught red-handed.
DeleteIt's hard to create disinformation to spin getting caught creating disinformation to spin.
DeleteIs the claim that the FBI and deep state are working glove in hand to protect women’s right to choose been proven yet?
DeleteAsking for a Right-winger pretending they care absolutely it individual freedom.
Oops. That should read “working hand in glove with the Democratic Party”.
DeleteAnonymous regrets the error.
Fortunately for the Democratic Party, there is no such thing as a Republican who believes in freedom.
Delete10:31,
DeleteIt’s all been proven outside the court of law.
Inside the courtroom under oath it’s as confusing as John Dunham’s case of amnesia.
Democrat voters need, to be very critical of any attempts by their party leaders and other Federal actors to censor speech through corporate entities.
DeleteMany are now vocally supporting the system of targeted suppression of conservative ideas that has been uncovered.
What on Earth has happened to my party?
The position of Biden voters is as clear as it is fascist: Half of the country are racists and we are perfectly fine with and support a system for stripping them of their fundamental rights.
DeleteI hope you really believe they are all racists and have the receipts to prove it.
DeleteNow that you are on record supporting a system for actively denying their constitutional rights as citizens, you are going to have a lot of explaining to do over the next 50 years.
Turns out the Democratic Party isn’t Communist at all. It was always another Right-wing accusation that is really a confession.
DeleteHave you played the “Karl Marx or modern Republican quote” game?
It’s almost impossible to tell them apart.
12:21,
DeleteDo you think the irony is lost on anyone that Democrats are treating Republicans like 2nd class citizens, while Republicans treat women like 2nd class citizens?
I’ll pay for the first two abortions of any freedom-loving Republican who calls out Democrats for taking away their rights.
DeleteDemocrats were caught coercing social media giants to suppress speech they didn't like.
Delete11:58 "What on earth has happened to my party?" Absolutely nothing. It is the same one that has forever been denying: climate change, the science behind vaccinations, women's rights to control their bodies, the inappropriateness of eighteen year olds to purchase assault weapons, dissemination of knowledge via widespread book banning, worker's rights to assemble and unionize, the legitimacy of gays to marry and previously to enter the armed services, the legitimacy of the black community's complaints regarding police brutality targeted at their race, the appropriate funding of public education by diverting funds to private and charter schools, the worsening shortcomings of pay to play health care and absurd pharmaceutical costs, the seriousness of right wing extreme groups, including their activity on January 6th, and the abject failure of Republican tax policy to manage anything other than line the pockets of the wealthy and big business. That is , I assume that you are talking about the Republican party, because if you are pretending to have some kind of allegiance to the Democratic party, you are an unconvincing failure of a troll. And judging from your comments, likely a Russian sympathizer in the Trump mold. In which case your first amendment commentary is all the more ludicrous, if that is even possible. Your favorite party has had more than ample time to build a case, if there was one, against Joe Biden, but all that they have to show for years of effort, including that made by conveniently disappearing witnesses, is what we all knew: that Hunter Biden is a dirtbag. So, having failed at anything more than that, you manufacture a new grievance, that Biden and the DEEP STATE have been engaged in an all out assault on the first amendment; in other words, that he acts like Ron DeSantis. Only he hasn't engaged in war on a company for having the temerity to publicly disagree with him. But you throw that up and hope that it will stick, in the same way that after years of failing to implicate Clinton in Bengazi the republicans were left to complain about her text messages right up until the end of that election. Good luck with that, because you certainly have not built a case for it in these comments. But you and the most corrupt and ignorant version of a Republican congress in history have your playbook, and nothing else of substance to do in the service of their constituents, so by all means waste our time with this drivel, right up until November 2024.
DeleteI'm a Democrat. I've never voted for a Republican. Or given money to one.
DeleteAnd here you are claiming to be a Democrat and not pushing back against the system of censorship they've been caught building and using.
That's what I mean what happened!? You don't care that Democrats are censoring their enemies and leading us into never-ending wars. Why?
Just for the record, unamused, you are claiming that the Democrats in the White House we're not caught systematically censoring other people? is that what you were claiming?
DeleteThere is no evidence that the White House was involved as opposed to individuals, such as the Biden family, and there is no evidence that anything systematic was going on. The idea that there was censorship (which is something institutions do, not people) is ridiculous.
DeleteWhat is the justification for posting dick pics of Hunter Biden (who is not part of the government or running for any office) online, as was done by Steve Bannon's Chinese associate? Now these guys want to hide behind "free speech" after engaging in revenge porn against the son of a political opponent?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/02/hunter-biden-threatens-to-sue-steve-bannon-and-exiled-mogul-guo-wengui/
Hunter Biden's lawyer says he has proof that the same people who planned J6 are behind the conspiracy theories over Hunter Biden's laptop. This is a political smear that traces back to the right wing, as are the various trolls here whining about censorship.
Deletehttps://www.rawstory.com/hunter-biden-laptop-lies-fabricated-tech-proof/
Republican Riggleman said to Jim Acosta:
Delete"He went on to say that Congress should know that whatever data is in the public domain "has no relation to any forensic copy attached to a Hunter Biden laptop. And it looks like, to us, that most of the data is curated. It's almost like a mixtape of multiple data sources that's gone through the hands of 30 or 40 people."
Rudy Giuliani has been the source of a lot of the allegations involving the Bidens and Ukraine. It was just last month that Raw Story connected Giuliani to a document Rep. James Comer (R-KY) is using to claim that there was a bribery scheme involving the Bidens. Comer and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) went so far as to claim that there were 15 tapes that existed that would prove the bribery scandal. Only a few weeks later, Giuliani claimed that the person who had the tapes had been killed and alleged "mysterious circumstances."
Giuliani didn't say the person's name but claimed she was the late wife of a former CEO of Burisma, who also died of mysterious circumstances. According to the Fox website, the person who made the tapes was male, and Giuliani claimed that the tapes were made by that dead CEO. The only problem is that the man Giuliani referenced died in 2011, before either Biden was involved. Now Giuliani is claiming that the "wife" of that CEO, who had the tapes, was killed."
This is a manufactured fraud and Hunter Biden's legal staff can prove it.
Is it "censorship" when an individual who is being attacked requests that fraudulent info be taken off of a social media source? No one has the right to engage in libel without recourse -- libel is not protected speech. Hunter Biden is suing and he has the right to protect himself from this maliciousness, as does Joe Biden and Jill Biden.
DeleteThe right wing seems to have gone bonkers. It has no restraint any more, engaging in illegal acts with impunity. And then we have these trolls here trying to muddy the water and pretend like there are individual freedom issues involved -- Biden has the right to the same freedoms as everyone else, which includes not being targeted by crooks who will do anything to win a partisan battle.
Here is an example of the lies that right wing trolls will tell in order to promote their agenda:
Delete"I'm a Democrat. I've never voted for a Republican. Or given money to one.
And here you are claiming to be a Democrat and not pushing back against the system of censorship they've been caught building and using.
That's what I mean what happened!? You don't care that Democrats are censoring their enemies and leading us into never-ending wars. Why?"
Lie #1 is that any of these guys are Democrats. Everything that follows that statement is right wing boilerplate trolling. Are lies protected as free speech? They are not moral and they are not part of legitimate campaign activity. It used to be that when lies were exposed, the person lying took a political hit. Now people have become cynical and expect it (of both sides), but the left doesn't lie like these trolls do.
The right wing lost its sense of shame back in 2015 (or before, when some Republicans defended Nixon's wrong doing and when they followed a crud like Newt Gingrich -- remember when he served divorce papers on his wife while she was in the hospital for cancer treatment?).
These are horrible people who are paid to come here and tell lies. If they aren't on troll farms, they are being paid by Russia -- the guys who invaded Ukraine and started the latest endless war.
Republicans own these trolls. Remember that when those of you who are actually Democrats go to the polls.
DeleteIf you truly love something, you welcome criticism of it because it is an avenue to make that thing stronger.
DeleteThis idea is either not understood by today's useful idiots or not embraced because they are MSM/Corporate complex fake liberals and it is not in their interest to allow thought or discussion to exist outside of the approved box.
In short, please find the latest idiotic comments from an easy target like Marjorie Taylor Greene and talk about those. That's safe.
"These are horrible people who are paid to come here and tell lies. If they aren't on troll farms, they are being paid by Russia"
DeleteReally? Did Russia issue the ruling against the Biden White House based on false evidence Russia gave them too?
Are you referring to the unconstitutional ruling by the single Trump appointed judge, soon to be overturned for violation of the WH's 1st amendment protections? That ruling?
DeleteBiden v Missouri . Are you disputing the evidence the judge used? Why? You are disputing his decision? On what grounds?
DeleteWatching corporate Democrats is like watching someone slowly go insane.
DeleteAre you stupid or can't you read, Boris? Unconstitutional violation of 1st amendment protections, trollboy. Go read the appeal.
Delete8:54 see 11:41, 11:44, and 11:51. You're well on your way to becoming an over-exaggerated parody of a right wing troll. And 8:15 smells about as authentic a Rudy Giulliani's flop sweat hair color.
DeleteThe Biden White House already agreed that every single bit of evidence presented was real. We are getting their case in front of the judge and lost.
DeleteThe appeal will be a most welcome situation for everyone involved. Believe me I will be there in the front row. If you have a copy of the appeal though, please share it!
You're still operating on fumes. Fumes from the last 7 years of a Democratic party completely drunk on propaganda. Just plastered.
You still think you can just make things up, just say things and they will turn out to be true. Not in this case Jack. This one is over and there ain't no appealing or there ain't no overturning this one. Everyone in the world is waiting for the Democrats to get up and explain themselves. Explain the evidence that you agreed was all legitimate and tell us how that is you expressing your first amendment rights. Maybe they will make a compelling argument. If they do, that is great. But they won't, because they cannot.
The whole world cannot wait for them to make this argument. That's what you don't understand.You don't understand that this case is lost, it's over, they will get nowhere on appeal, the evidence is all there for everyone to see and if you want to pretend like it didn't happen, that's on you. But the rest of the world is going to, don't mind us, stay in reality not in fantasyland.The sooner you recognize it the less stupid you will look.
But I will be here to watch you suffer as the appeals fail and you become forced to face reality.
Breaking news: look up Gal Luft. You guys hang out? LMAO.
DeleteFeel free to crawl back under your rock. The whole world is waiting.
DeleteI would say that you've been badly played but I suspect it's a bit more complicated than that. You must think we are as gullible as MAGAs. It doesn't work that way. Find a more ignorant audience, whoever is the opposite of MENSA, and play that broken record of yours to them. You will be more and more laughable over the coming days when the connections among these Hunter Biden's laptop people clarify, as well as their connections to the Comers and Jordan's of the Republican party further discredit those clowns.
DeleteThe involvement of Giulliani and Bannon in the chain of custody of the hard drive or copies of such would have constituted massive red flags to any but the most gullible MAGAs or conversely, their involvement would have abetted trolls that market lies, of which you are undoubtedly the latter.Sad and pathetic trolls like yourself are a danger to our democracy.
DeleteSad and pathetic trolls who don't support censorship are a danger to our democracy?
DeleteThe issue is the laptop story was censored.
The issue is gullible partisans and intellectual and moral giants like yourself alike were all prevented from even knowing there were red flags.
The laptop story was made up by Republicans to embarrass Biden. Why should it be treated as real?
DeleteBecause you are retarded.
DeleteThe next Right-wing argument made in good faith, will be the first.
DeleteNo worries. The Biden White House is all about protecting the reproductive rights of women, so you can still vote for Biden and the Democrats if protecting the rights of citizens is most important to you.
DeleteIf you hate women more than you love citizen's rights, vote Republican. They got you covered.
“Jill was literally asking to have posts removed that had pictures of rooms whose curtains she didn't like.”
ReplyDeleteSo? Completely understandable.
That’s made up but look how readily you believe it.
DeleteAnonymouse 3:10pm, “…readily believe it”?
DeleteI’d do it.
Apparently the curtains don’t match the carpet.
DeleteRight. Don’t be putting up pictures like that. Seriously.
DeleteSince the legitimacy of the statement about Jill Biden has been questioned, and I couldn't verify by Googling it, perhaps a legitimate outlet can be referenced, preferably with first party quotations, not some heresay on infowars.
DeleteVery important follow up research, I hope you can determine the truth and rest easy. This is way bigger than supressing discussion about the origins of COVID-19!
DeleteDemocrats became fascist Republicans of the worst kind. Sad to watch.
DeleteIt's a slippery slope. First you ban discussion that asks whether the vaccine is necessary. Obviously it is necessary. People don't blink an eye.
DeleteNow you ban discussions reporting potential side effects or risks of taking the vaccine. People think to themselves, yeah, there may be some side effects or risks but we can't have people talking about that or we won't achieve immunity on a large scale. Ban that too.
Well now they feel they have their ticket. They ban discussion about the origins of the virus. About conflicts of interest that Fauci may have had. And so on. Pretty soon it's anything deemed fringe. Banned. Censored. That's not enough? Okay let's silence the voices permanently, anyone that dared speak out. Let's extend that to anyone that referenced them or quoted them. And so on.
Disinformation about public health causes unnecessary deaths. That is a legitimate reason to ban certain speech, as much as banning those who shout fire when there is none.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:49, if you were in a crowded theater and shouted fire because you saw the smoke from four hunched down, out of sight, teenagers surreptitiously smoking cigarettes in the back row, would this be the same scenario as the SCOTUS example?
Delete4:49
DeleteThe Biden White House and other agencies were censoring information that turned out to be true!
So the fire in a crowded movie house analogy is not applicable.
THE LAPTOP EVERYONE KNOWS AS HUNTER BIDEN’S APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN DELETED STARTING FEBRUARY 15, 2019
DeleteJuly 8, 2023/101 Comments/in 2020 Presidential Election, Cybersecurity, emptywheel, Hunter Biden /by emptywheel
How did that exciting post turn out?
DeleteCecelia, warning people about a real fire is ok. Knowingly calling fire when there is none is not ok. Disinformation is not people with good intentions being wrong. Those liars at Fox knew the truth. So does Bannon & Guo. There is no Biden crime family, no govt censorship. These ate deliberate political lies. So is the anti-Fauci crap. If you don’t know that, I pity you.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:39pm, but lighted cigarettes are not a fire in the sense that the person sounding the alarm would have meant it. This person saw smoke, thought the theater was on fire, and shouted out a warning. This may have started a stampede in which people were hurt, but the intentions were to help, not to harm.
DeleteThat is not the same scenario as the the classic SCOTUS example of harmful speech.
There were experts and non experts who disagreed with the CDC based upon their perceptions of things. That is not “hate speech” or incitement to violence or any other intentional incitement to harm. In some cases those people turned out to be correct as to certain claims about the efficacy of the vaccines.
Even if they were not correct, they should not be squelched. In a democratic society we value freedom to express ideas and opinions. The fact that there are people who may be swayed to act in a way that is not in their interest is not reason “enough” to shut down speech. It’s the impetus to conversation, argumentation, and analysis among adults.
I understand that private entities can do business with who they wish, but it’s not in the interest of any of us to encourage and promote censorship of this sort of speech.
The quote “I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to my death your right to say it” is a statement that happens to be a simultaneous defense of my right to say why I think you’re wrong.
You think the covid disinformation campaign is good faith. It isn’t.
DeleteThe right has been talking about censorship and freedom for decades while it engages in making women 2nd class citizens, disenfranchising black voters, terrorizing and committing political violence and even insurrection. There are too many lies to take your concerns seriously.
DeleteAnonymouse 10:45pm, KKK members marching in the town square is not a “good faith” movement either and in a way that far more objectively true than your political pronouncements upon people who dissed the vaccine or who didn’t vote for Hillary. .
DeleteHowever, there was a time when the ACLU defended the right of the odious KKK to march in the town square holding abhorrent placards.
Now, anonymouse liberals would argue that this promoted hate, violence, fear, PTSD, etc and must be shut down rather than used as an opportunity to counter, teach, and expose.
Now you have no fear of the same treatment from political groups, business, the media, any more than Victorians feared being hampered via push back from “libertines”.
You are the authoritarians and the barbarians you used to denounce.
Yes, Cecelia, we've come a long way. Nowadays, nazis are invited to speak at republican conventions. Nothing controversial there.
DeleteAnonymouse 9:06am, anonymices haven’t come very far at all.
DeleteYou’ve remained the sort of people who call others Nazis even as you act like Nazis.
"The GOP's purported informant who had all the dirt on Hunter Biden, who went missing, has been found. It turned out he is now charged with being an unregistered foreign agent for China and an international arms trafficker while violating U.S. sanctions on Iran and lying to investigators."
DeleteDaily Kos
One way or another, no one on the planet is surprised.
Deleteyou really are a wormy little coward Cecelia.
DeleteAfter condemning Nazism, Paul Gosar to share stage with members of Austrian party founded by Nazis
The Arizona Republican will attend a Conservative Political Action Conference hosted by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán
Sen. Tommy Tuberville refuses to agree white nationalists are racist
DeleteCollege Republicans Convention to Host White Nationalist Nick Fuentes
DeleteThe national convention is laying out the red carpet for a whole host of far-right speakers, with Nick Fuentes at the very top.
Anonymouse 10:02am, if the AG of TN requested the medical records of all homosexuals being treated by Vanderbilt mental health services, because of claims of conversion therapy being practiced on children ( or even consenting adults…) would you automatically assume persecution of gay folks?
DeleteAnonymouse 9:59am, how am I a coward for not agreeing with you about the importance of free speech because Paul Gosar will purportedly share the stage with an Austrian Nazi? Better a Ukrainian one?
DeleteHow many logical fallacies and bad guys are you going pull out of your butt in order to negate the principle of free speech?
I'll tell you why you're a coward when you say what you mean to say instead of this bullshit:
DeleteCeceliaJuly 11, 2023 at 9:50 AM
One way or another, no one on the planet is surprised.
Anonymouse 1:22pm, my remark is the damn truth. Of course it would follow in your head to find that cowardly.
DeleteThis is not a free speech issue. Voters have the right to know which Republicans are cozy with which Nazis and White Supremacists. And the Biden family has the right to contact Twitter and ask them to stop circulating Hunter's dick pics without claiming that it is somehow GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech. And now we are finding out that the same Chinese agents who have been persecuting Hunter are unregistered agents of China engaging in arms trafficking and violating of sanctions against Iran and for being an unregistered agent of China in dealings with US politicians. That is heavy duty crime, including the libeling of the president's son (and the President) for political gain. But you go ahead and whine about free speech for your Nazi friends.
DeleteThere are exceptions to free speech rights, including (1) fraud is not protected speech, (2) libel is not protected speech, (3) incitement of riot and hate crimes is not protected speech, (4) conspiracy to engage in insurrection and sedition is not protected speech, and so on.
DeleteHunter Biden is not a member of the government. He is a private citizen. The so-called whistleblower is a Chinese agent, not someone with actual knowledge about any acts by Hunter Biden. He is engaging in political ratfucking and that is not protected speech either, since it is criminal behavior.
This Hunter Biden hunting frenzy on the right is just as crazy as pizzagate (aka frazzledrip) or the accusations that the Clintons had people murdered. You are too smart for this Cecelia.
Sane people judge political candidates based on their resumes and past accomplishments and their platforms of programs and policies they will enact once elected. The rest of this nonsense is noise meant to confuse the feeble-minded. That's why the education levels are so much higher in the Democratic party compared to the Republicans. Only very stupid people follow conspiracy theories, especially the crazy ones proposed by the right wing.
Anyone who isn't a bigot, or isn't perfectly fine with bigotry, left the Republican party over two dozen years ago.
DeleteOne way or another, no one on the planet is surprised.
DeleteWhat is the damn truth about that, Cecelia? Can you speak straight for once in your damn life?
Surprised about what? What the fuck are you implying?
It'll be interesting to see how Kevin Drum throws shade on this:
ReplyDelete"Another huge month of private-sector job gains: ADP reports employers added 497,000 jobs in June, more than double economists' estimates.
Even Fox Business: 'Well, that's not recessionary at all!'"
With neoliberals like Somerby and Drum, narrative always trumps truth.
DeleteBoth suffer from wounds that have not only made them sad lost souls, but also uninteresting with respect to political discourse.
Somerby and Drum have blogs where they express their thoughts and allow others a forum in which to reply.
DeleteIf there is a “lost soul” in this dynamic it’s your banshee butt.
A graph is no substitute for meaningful analysis.
DeleteWishing you an uneventful surgery that is successful and a speedy recovery, Bob.
ReplyDeleteI haven’t heard anything about possible cheating in Mississippi test scores in over 48 hours. Anybody holding?
ReplyDeleteAs comment no. 100, let me summarize a month-and-a-half of Somerby's posts:
ReplyDelete"The media overhypes NAEP results for MS fourth-graders. Although these results seem promising, MS's third-grade retention policies make comparison to other state's results problematic."
Now let me summarize the on-topic comments:
"Somerby is a right-wing turd."
This is what statistical discussion apparently sounds like to someone with no statistics background.
Delete"The city of Baltimore is full of great kids!"
ReplyDelete"Baltimore police arrested a 17-year-old male on weapons charges on Friday in connection with a mass shooting at a neighborhood block party in the Maryland city, but they did not charge the suspect with murder and said their investigation was ongoing.
The teenage suspect, whom the Baltimore Police Department did not name, is being charged with possession of a firearm by a minor, assault weapon possession, reckless endangerment and carrying a handgun in a vehicle."
Police said that casings from at least 12 guns were recovered. What kind of block party did those shooters think they were attending?
The New York Times announced Monday that it plans to shutter its sports desk, relying instead on the Athletic, the subscription sports website it purchased last year, for most sports coverage. The Times will offer jobs elsewhere in the newsroom to current sports staffers, the company said, and plans to form a new team on its business desk focused on the business of sports.
ReplyDeleteThe plan comes amid a reorganization at the Athletic, which is losing money and recently announced layoffs, and will be met with resistance from Times sports staffers, who wrote a letter to company executives over the weekend demanding input into the section’s future. Executive editor Josepn Kahn was scheduled to meet with the staff this morning.
One other fact: the Times sports division is unionized and the Athletic isn't.
Delete"Mississippi is full of good, decent kids. Our mainstream press corps is full of people who love love love love love love love that "Schools That Work" Storyline."
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldn't anyone love it when the schools manage to help young people learn? Somerby has never explained that part.
He hasn't shown that the report is incorrect, that kids in MS have not improved their reading scores. He seems to think it is wrong for journalists to like to report it when schools do something well. But he never says what is wrong with that.
Usually the complaint goes the other way -- people complain that there is too much emphasis on bad news and not enough good news reported by journalists.
Somerby spent 6 weeks complaining that the media had reported a good news story, working very hard to discredit the accomplishments in MS but coming up empty-handed. Why?