SATURDAY: Does the American project "belong to the ages?"

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2024

On balance, is Marc Thiessen right? This very morning, at 6 o'clock, there we sat, watching the first hour of the "cable news" program, Fox & Friends Weekend.

The three regular friends were all present. We'd say that two are "true believers." On balance, we wouldn't grant Cain that excuse.

Fox & Friends Weekend, regular co-hosts
Rachel Campos-Duffy: At age 52, true believer by way of a form of conservative Catholicism. 
Pete Hegseth: At age 44, true believer by way of a meritorious Army National Guard career.
Will Cain: At age 49, too smart to be fully sincere about the various presentations with which he plays along. Or at least, so it seems here.

Those would be our assessments of the personnel. 

Concerning the program itself, it's a fairly obvious propaganda program. It seems to have been designed to advance corporate messaging and to enhance corporate profits by dint of the way it panders to the preconceptions of a tribal audience.

In yesterday morning's report, we showed you some of the pseudo-journalism which emanates from this Potemkin news program. This morning, as we watched the friends, a famous statement kept coming to mind:

Now he belongs to the ages.

Apparently, so said Secretary Stanton as he stood at the deathbed of President Lincoln. In the contemporary context, is the American experiment on the verge of "belonging to the ages?" It is possible that we've moved down a long, winding road to a location "now too much for us"--to a place from which there will be no coming back?

In the coming week, we'll explore some of the ways our own nation, such as it was, has been transformed into two warring tribes. Along the way in the past dozen years, we're quoted statements by three major anthropologists describing the muddle we're in.

More than a decade ago, we started with Norman O. Brown, who made this opaque statement as part of a Phi Beta Kappa Address way back in May 1960. As the great professor spoke, Candidates Kennedy and Nixon were out there on the trail:

BROWN (5/31/60): I sometimes think I see that societies originate in the discovery of some secret, some mystery; and expand with the progressive publication of their secret; and end in exhaustion when there is no longer any secret, when the mystery has been divulged, that is to say profaned...

And so there comes a time—I believe we are in such a time—when civilization has to be renewed by the discovery of some new mysteries, by the undemocratic but sovereign power of the imagination, by the undemocratic power which makes poets the unacknowledged legislators of all mankind, the power which makes all things new.

We have no idea what he was talking about, and neither did anyone else. That said, Brown seemed to think, even then, that some essential "secret" at the heart of the American experiment was being profaned in such a way that our society was destined to end in exhaustion.

As can be seen in this lengthy New York Times obituary, Brown was very hot at the time. He's almost never mentioned today. At roughly that same time, Professor Brabender was describing another part of the process to which we the American humans have succumbed in this day:

Where I come from, we only talk so long. After that, we start to hit.

We only talk so long! That was Professor Brabender's telling observation about the highly imperfect wiring with which us the humans are saddled. 

Decades earlier, Edward Cummings, in a bitterly caustic poem, had described key parts of the process out of which our contemporary propaganda programming has emerged. We often think of these scientific observations when we watch today' "cable news" shows:

Humanity I Love You

Humanity i love you
because you would rather black the boots of
success than enquire whose soul dangles from his
watch-chain
which would be embarrassing for both
parties and because you
unflinchingly applaud all
songs containing the words country home and
mother
when sung at the old howard
Humanity i love you because
when you’re hard up you pawn your
intelligence to buy a drink
and when
you’re flush pride keeps
you from the pawn shop and
because you are continually committing
nuisances but more
especially in your own house
Humanity i love you because you
are perpetually putting the secret of
life in your pants
and forgetting
it’s there and sitting down

on it

The professor's observations were offered in the form of a caustic anti-war poem, which continues on briefly from there. 

Small world! At the time, our own father was already working at the Old Howard, the vaudeville house where Cummings later said he heard the favorite joke which inspired his unconventional approach to poetry.

(John Wilkes Booth had played an earlier version of the Howard, though that was well before our father's time. In his autobiography, Harpo Speaks, Harpo Marx said he got his first unintentional laugh while on stage at the Howard, during our father's tenure.)

Professor Cummings was angry. In this analysis, he prophetically described some of the human behaviors which have brought us to the present state of affairs. Most notably, the great observer of us the humans said this about the basic wiring with which we seem to be saddled:

you would rather black the boots of success than enquire whose soul dangles from his watch-chain 

To some extent, so it seems to go on programs like Fox & Friends Weekend. So too on the weekday properties of that propaganda franchise, Fox & Friends First and Fox & Friends, whose performers have been churning the agitprop since 1998

Meanwhile, how about this observation?

you are perpetually putting the secret of life in your pants and forgetting it’s there

That may explain why high-end news orgs like the New York Times agree that this destructive pseudo-journalistic behavior must never be reported or discussed.

On those Fox News Channel programs, the various collections of friends churn the mandated propaganda. The fuller secrets of life are routinely "placed in their pants."

Red America's TV viewers are asked to hear only a carefully culled selection of the world's basic facts. In fairness, similar conduct can often be observed within the "cable news" TV shows aimed at our own Blue America.

As November 5 approaches, a basic question exists. Few of us in Blue America ever ask questions like this in a serious way:

How in the world did we get to this place? Is it possible that there's something different we could have done—those of us over here in our tribe?

In our view, Blue America's role in the present decline began in the mid-1960s. For today, we'll restrict ourselves to a tease concerning a recent dispute. 

For the record, Candidate Trump has made a million disordered remarks. Yesterday afternoon, we showed you his latest Truth Social post, in which he erupted again.

That said, we the humans seem to be wired in a fairly obvious way:

We prefer to tell the simplest possible story as we drive our tribal narratives forward. With that in mind, we're going to suggest that Marc Thiessen may have a basic point pretty much right in his new column for the Washington Post.

(On balance, he may also have it pretty much wrong.)

Tomorrow, we'll show you what we mean. When we do, we'll include a new, basic point about What Candidate Trump Is Widely Said To Have Said. 

This point had never occurred to us until the past few days. Also, we've seen no evidence that it ever occurred to anyone else.

Donald J. Trump gets it wrong all the time. At this site, we've long assumed that he's (clinically) disordered in a destructive way.

That said, does our side ever get anything wrong? Are we mere humans too?

In the larger sense, is the American project on the verge of "belonging to the ages?" How did we ever get to this place? Was there anything we could have done?

Three anthropologists tried to inform us.  We'll suggest that it didn't quite work.

Tomorrow: Thiessen speaks

131 comments:

  1. People with meretorious military service tend not to support Trump, for obvious reasons. Somerby's characterization of Hegseth as a true believer by virtue of National Guard military service suggests that Somerby is not keeping up with what is happening in this election.

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  2. I always flinch when Somerby uses the word Potemkin, since he seems to believe it only refers to something fake. Historically, Potemkin was a Russian general who supposedly built fake villiages to show Catherine the Great (who was also his lover) that progress had been made in settling a territory she was touring. It is sometimes presented as a romantic gesture, and is also controversial, since there is also evidence the villages were real. The term does not refer to the government or some authority presenting fake evidence to the people, nor does it refer to any old kind of lying. There is a context to the story that Somerby generally ignores.

    As wikipedia says: "The term has also come to be used to describe an elaborate facade designed to hide an undesirable reality." I don't believe it applies at all to Fox News. They are exactly what they present themselves as, a conservative news station with stories for conservative viewers, although not especially Trump supporters these days. What you see is what you get.

    Somerby's blog might be described as a Potemkin liberal blog, since he is not particularly liberal and what is being hidden when he calls himself such is undesirable to liberals.

    Somerby may not be thinking about his word choices much these days. It seems likely he didn't think about the meaning of the word Potemkin but just applied it as a negative adjective because it sounds like something bad. On the other hand, Somerby isn't good at finding metaphors or allusions and rarely considers whether they fit the situation. But it is still grating when he does it.

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  3. "In the contemporary context, is the American experiment on the verge of "belonging to the ages?" "

    My reaction to this, as it has been every time Somerby has said this, is that Somerby is doing nothing to prevent the demise of our democratic system, that he is hastening that death along with his support for the right wing agenda. It may be that we need to defend our democracy by standing up against those trying to meddle with our election system. If so, Somerby has done nothing whatsoever to help that cause and indeed has allied himself with the forces working to bring us down. That makes his warning a form of gloating, not a wake-up call.

    If we want to preserve our democracy, it is imperative that Trump not be put back into office. Somerby has acknowledged that, but then he attacks Harris over trivialities at every opportunity. To my knowledge, he has never urged others here to vote for Harris.

    Instead, Somerby lazily quotes Gutfeld and other Republicans on Fox, while occasionally taking time out to attack some liberal opinion writer or cable host. Somerby is not among the voices calling Trump fascist or decrying his plans for governing, as nearly every other Democrat has been doing. Somerby calls Trump crazy and leaves it at that, while opposing the criminal trials of Trump's misbehavior, the investigations and impeachments of Trump for wrongdoing. It is hard to see any daylight between Somerby's activities here and those of other conservative supporting Trump.

    This is not how someone trying to preserve our democracy behaves. It is how someone trying to subvert our democracy and replace it with an authoritarian regime behaves. And this may be Somerby's goal -- to convince people that democracy is unworkable and that we should embrace rule by a daddy figure who will clean up the border and replace the divisive media with a reliable source of propaganda. And then Somerby quotes a fascist poet or two to seal the deal (e.e. cummings, who Somerby mislabels "Edward", was a big admirer of Joseph McCarthy and a Republican himself).

    Somerby's essay today is offensive, especially when he equates the assassinated Lincoln with the hit-job being perpetrated on our elections by the Republicans, and sighs over the inevitability of our "experiment's" demise. Somerby needs to go back and read what really happened in Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, or any of the other fascist heavens on earth he urges us toward. This essay today is an abomination, just like Trump and his fascist buddies.

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    1. "It is hard to see any daylight between Somerby's activities here and those of other conservative supporting Trump."

      From Bob's post today:

      "For the record, Candidate Trump has made a million disordered remarks."

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    2. Yes, Hector, he says that, and then he attacks Harris and promotes Trump by quoting and linking to pro-Trump talking points and materials. Just as he does today by touting Thiessen's opinion piece.

      These pro forma acknowledgments that Trump is disordered are the equivalent of the "good and decent person" he calls someone before attacking them. They are empty phrases that mean nothing to Somerby, or else he would behave differently. Would someone be slagging Harris in the days before the election if they truly believed that Trump is disordered?

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    3. @12:54 complains that Bob is not trying to preserve our democracy. I agree. IMO Bob's purpose is to present views that are realistic and accurate. When truth conflicts with preserving democracy, Bob opts for truth.

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    4. Bob can't handle the truth.

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    5. For years, Somerby has pissed off the wrong (right) person or persons. Anonymices aren’t writing these redundant and endless screeds every day…over and over… for nothing. Bob doesn't twitch an eyelash or stop for less than a rare trip or a power outage. Anonymices should demand a retirement package.

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    6. David, the truth is that Trump is disordered. That’s a truth that Bob utters almost daily. But here you are, every day, excusing and explaining Trump’s disorder away. So, apparently, you are unable to process his truth. Why?

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    7. The comments are redundant because Somerby's essays are redundant. And what does Brabender have to do with anything today?

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    8. "disordered"

      How damning.

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    9. Anonymouse 3:06pm, well, then go to another blog. It would be obvious to any casual reader that Bob is not going to be shaking things up now and again. This isn’t Instapundit, with 100k readers. The fact that anonymices put so much time and energy into this place reveals that they’re part of an organized effort.

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    10. “These pro forma acknowledgments that Trump is disordered”

      A pro forma statement is in some sense required, either by politeness or the form or circumstances in which it is made. It could also be called obligatory.

      For example, at a funeral people will generally say nice things about the deceased they may not entirely mean. Or if there’s only one candidate for an office, a pro forma election will still be held.

      It’s not clear to me why Bob is obligated or required in any way to say that Trump has a disordered mind. An ad-free blogger is free to express his genuine opinion.

      But then you say, well, he can’t mean what he says about Trump because he ‘attacks’ and ‘slags’ Harris. I think a more accurate term for his negative statements about Harris is ‘criticism’, which is both measured and specific, and in most cases deserved.

      I loathe Trump but can also acknowledge Harris' weaknesses and errors.

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    11. In this case, Somerby's statements are pro forma in order to maintain his cover as some sort of liberal. He does express his real opinions too, but then they are confusing and contradictory, something he makes no effort to clarify. His point here is to spread right wing talking points, which he does each and every day.

      A liberal who genuinely wants Harris to win this election will not engage in "criticism" but will focus on her strengths and urge others to vote for her too. Somerby never does that. The only positive thing he has ever said about Harris is that she has a great smile.

      You say that you loathe Trump but you do not spend any time opposing him here, nor have you advocated for Harris. If you are going to be counted among Trump opposition or Harris support, you need to walk the walk, not just say so.

      The point of a campaign is to urge other people to vote for a specific candidate. You don't do that by analyzing in great detail all of your preferred candidate's most trivial faults. You do it by focusing on strengths and listing reasons for NOT voting for opposition candidates. Somerby has certainly called Trump crazy, disordered, etc., but I don't recall him ever saying outright "Do not vote for Trump if you care about our democracy." Today he is joining Theissen, who think Harris went to far calling Trump a fascist. Just like Somerby thought the impeachment was wrong because it negated the will of the voters, and the insurrection investigation was biased (because the Republicans mostly refused to participate). Calling Trump a fascist, when he has promised to do a bunch of fascist things, is a bridge too far for Somerby. But he still won't tell his readers to go vote for Harris, because of her many strengths.

      And we're supposed to accept Somerby as a liberal who supports Harris? Does Somerby take us for fools? Apparently so, and you too.

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    12. "You say that you loathe Trump but you do not spend any time opposing him here"

      I do almost nothing else here other than oppose Trump. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

      "The point of a campaign is to urge other people to vote for a specific candidate."

      True. But Bob is not a part of the Harris campaign. He is an observer expressing his opinions (as am I).

      "And we're supposed to accept Somerby as a liberal who supports Harris?"

      Somerby doesn't fit your definition of a liberal, but he fits mine.

      "Does Somerby take us for fools?"

      If he knew you, he well might.

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    13. It seems to me that this is an election where taking a neutral stance (being an observer, sitting on a fence) is not a good idea.

      What part of your definition of liberal does Somerby fit? I really want to know.

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    14. I don't think these Anons are "liberals" at all; I think they'd more accurately call themselves "progressives." Liberals tend to be broad-minded and inclusive; progressives tend to be narrow-minded and exclusive, quick to name call the racists, sexists, etc., that they see everywhere they look. Liberals seek to welcome more people into the tent; progressives seek to throw people out.

      If Harris loses, I'm going to blame progressives who try to throw people such as Hector and Somerby out of the tent.

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    15. Supporting racists and sexist against name-calling by so-called progressives doesn't make someone liberal. You have to be inside the tent before you can be thrown out. What is liberal about Somerby? What liberal attitude does Somerby share that is not also a Republican attitude? Remember that they too hate being called racist and sexist.

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    16. Somerby joined progressives by supporting the pro-Palestinian demonstrators on college campuses. Democrats are split on that. I think liberals were more aligned with Israel whereas progressives were more aligned with Arab states on that issue. It surprised me when Somerby took that position as strongly as he did. I think he did it to split the Democrats and to support the pro-Russia element, which would be a right-wing tactic, not liberal.

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    17. I guess I'll withdraw 'liberal' from my definition of Somerby and replace it with 'centrist Democrat'. Maybe that can end all the fussin' and feudin' about something we can never know.

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    18. I think it’s completely sound and safe to say that Bob Somerby is not in the employ of Russia.

      And why is it that Bob is always immediately linked to the Palestinian cause as his entry into campus unrest, but nothing is ever said about the Vietnam protests that were much more immediate in that era?

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    19. Like Trump, Somerby protested the war by getting a deferment. Cecelia says things confidently without evidence, just like every other right winger.

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  4. Somerby's odd use of quotes is increasingly resembling Trump's dementia, displayed during his talks, in which he goes off on tangents that mean nothing to anyone and have no relevance at all to what is on the teleprompter (or in Somerby's case, the prompt he has chosen for his daily poop on the things liberals care about).

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  5. Here is how Somerby supports Harris:

    "We prefer to tell the simplest possible story as we drive our tribal narratives forward. With that in mind, we're going to suggest that Marc Thiessen may have a basic point pretty much right in his new column for the Washington Post."

    When you visit the Washington Post, which has refused to endorse Harris and is also behind a paywall, so it is hard for non-subscribers to appreciate Somerby's knock on Harris, you find this headline:

    "Harris’s closing argument is dishonest, desperate and hypocritical..."

    Thiessen has written a series of other pro-Trump opinion pieces in previous weeks.

    What kind of liberal does this? What kind of person who believes our democracy is dying, supports it by slagging the pro-democracy candidate and pushing a fascist (yes, that is what he is) like Trump, the embodied threat to our elections and system of governance?

    As we swing into the last days before the election, Somerby is letting it all hang out. His cover was blown a long time ago. This makes it obvious who and what he is.

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    1. "One of Timothy Snyder’s rules for resisting authoritarians is that “most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given.” People surrender preemptively much more often than you might expect."

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  6. Part one -- BrabenderOctober 26, 2024 at 1:28 PM

    My comment about Brabender has now been deleted twice. I will try once more, by breaking it into two parts:

    1. Brabender is not a professor. He is a baseball player.
    2. Hitting anything except the baseball is not allowed and the player doing it will be tossed out of the game.
    3. The quote Somerby keeps pulling out of context may have been about hitting a baseball with a bat, not hitting other players.
    4. I am not going to find the book and check, but it may be that Somerby is misrepresenting the quote in order to suggest that talking doesn't work to resolve disputes and that people hit when talking quickly breaks down.

    Somerby is tricksy enough to have been misusing this quote for years now. In any case, it is neither true of humanity nor of baseball players in general. People hit to exert power over others, not as an alternative to talking over conflicts. Diplomacy works in nearly all situations and only a very few result in armed conflict, much fewer as we've developed international organizations and our economies have become more globally intertwined.

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    1. Brabender Part 2 was deleted. It may be because I quoted part of post at Rawstory. Here is the link:

      https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-2669484976/

      It is about the MAGA hat wearer who refused to take his hat off while casting his vote at his polling place. Advertising candidates is not allowed there, as everyone who has ever voted before knows.

      The MAGA was asked to remove his hat and grudgingly did so, cast his vote, then put his hat back on while still in the polling place. The poll worker asked him to remove it again. He did so and then turned around and repeatedly punched the 69-year old poll worker.

      My comment then pointed out that it is the right, not the left, who uses political violence to achieve its goals. Poll workers have been inundated by right wing threats, including graphic death threats.

      I then pointed out that it is not all of humanity who engages in instrumental violence like this, but a subset who is using violence to bully people into subservience. This is how Trump, MAGA, and dictators worldwide operate, not how humanity is in general. Generalizing this behavior to the left and everyone else is wrong, a lie that tends to excuse what these people are doing. We cannot let them succeed.

      That's why I have already voted for Harris. I hope you will too.

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    2. I'm voting for Marianne Williamson. I love her!

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    3. Marianne Williamson is not a candidate, not on the ballot. You may have to write her in if you really want to vote for her and aren't just trying to annoy the libs by sabotaging Harris.

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    4. You're not smart.

      1. "Professor" is a nickname with an honored history in our national pasttime. (It is sometimes rendered as "Perfesser".) It has been applied to a number of players across the game's long tenure.

      2. Hitting anything other than the ball will indeed get a player ejected from the game. Nevertheless, hitting, spiking, targeting with chin-high fastballs, brawling, and other violations of the formal rules are very much a part of baseball lore.

      3. The Brabender quote "may have been about hitting a baseball"? Haw.

      4. If you're not going to bother looking it up, why would you think your analysis of the quote is worth anything?

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    5. I will agree that I am not a baseball expert, but that has little to do with intelligence and much to do with gender.

      I looked up the Brabender quote the first time Somerby posted it, years back. It had nothing to do with what he was discussing then either. I know enough to say that baseball isn't hockey, nor is it boxing much less MMA. There's no crying in baseball and no hitting either.

      I didn't analyze the quote other than to say it made no sense in the context Somerby was discussing. It still doesn't. Did you look it up? If not, why not? I'll bet your reasons are similar to mine.

      Delete

  7. "In the larger sense, is the American project on the verge of "belonging to the ages?" "

    What we have now is a globalist American empire, and it's a relatively recent development.

    American republic was the original "project", and, if Candidate Trump is elected, he might be able, with a bit of luck, redirect America to becoming a republic again.

    One can hope.

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    1. The objective of electing Trump is to stop the bleeding caused by a party that is defined solely by mental illness. The hope is that after that, norms broken by Democrats who were already losing their sanity but went completely fascist over Trump can be repaired by public servants who are either Republicans or members of a new party that replaces the insane one.

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    2. The objective of electing Harris is to stop the bleeding of a party defined solely by Trump's mental illness. The hope is that after, norms and actual laws broken by Trump and his minions who went mad with greed and self-interest along with Trump can be repaired by public servants who are already in jobs they have been doing well, supervised by Democrats like Biden and Harris, who have restored the country to normalcy after the disruptions of covid and Trump's ineffective governance.

      FTFY

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  8. "Brown was very hot at the time. He's almost never mentioned today."

    I tried reading Brown back when Somerby first mentioned him, years ago. His writing is incomprehensible. He comes across like a new-age, drug-addled hippie. He makes no sense at all, which also means you can project anything you want onto his writing. That may be why Somerby keeps quoting him every few years.

    Most people who finish reading a book go on to another book. They don't necessarily read new books, but they tend to read books that are new to them. Judging by what Somerby quotes, he reads the same set of about 20 books, over and over and over. He returns to them as if he were locked in a cell with only the 20 or so volumes left there by the previous tennant. And he quotes them, whether they are relevant or not, never explaining what parallel he sees in what he has quoted and what he is discussing.

    That is a very bizarre way of handling literary references. I don't think I've seen anyone deal with quotes the way Somerby does -- it is as if he were using a random quote generator to inflate his word count for someone who is incapable of reading the English language. And his use of the Illiad is no better. Perhaps these daily essays are not meant to convey ideas but are coded text used to send messages to someone else, who uses them with a key to decipher the hidden message. There is no surface value to anything Somerby writes.

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  9. "We prefer to tell the simplest possible story as we drive our tribal narratives forward. With that in mind, we're going to suggest that Marc Thiessen may have a basic point pretty much right in his new column for the Washington Post. (On balance, he may also have it pretty much wrong.)"

    Drivel.

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    1. Clearly Somerby is demanding more complicated stories, but how exactly will telling them help us save our democracy? The more complex the story, the fewer people will follow it. Trump tells really simple-minded stories. Is Somerby advocating that approach for the Dems? How will that help anything?

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    2. Bob's aims are ultimately not political. He wants us to think more rationally.

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    3. And that makes him a liberal, how?

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  10. Why is Somerby so fascinated by Lincoln's death? He returns to it over and over.

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    1. Anonymouse 3:13pm, and he makes mention of what was going on during Lincoln’s presidency too.

      It’s a puzzle.

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    2. Yes, and he doesn't explain the relevance. Why is he obsessed like that?

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    3. Anonymouse 3:28pm, if you don’t know the relevance of Lincoln and his era to Bob then you’re new here. Read up when internet archive comes back online.

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    4. You are wrong about that. I've been here as long as you have, but Somerby never explains what his personal fetishes have to do with any subject he has raised.

      Is our democracy dying because someone in favor of slavery is shooting it with a silver bullet? Is it Trump doing that? Is Somerby in favor of that death or opposed to it. He seems to be relishing it, glorying in it, and he isn't telling us what to do differently at all. He is just saying we are all doomed for being humans, and that sounds like Trump's message, except Trump says he can save us, whereas Somerby is saying no one can save us. And why Lincoln? Why not JFK or Bobby?

      Ask your Russian friends at the troll farm who those guys were and think before answering.

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    5. Anonymouse 3:54pm, so you needed someone to explain Bob’s frequent referencing of Lincoln, until you were told to try reading him. In response to that you’ve launched excessive literalism and into your own exposition as to why he has said this or that and why this or that is inadequate.

      My guess is if George Soros or his son read your stuff today, Digby would be getting a complete dressing down.

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    6. I have read him. Did you miss the part where I said that. Now I am asking myself why I bothered engaging with you and I have no good answer, so good bye.

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    7. Anonymouse 4:23pm, like you’re going somewhere.

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    8. See, this is the kind of comment that makes people here dislike you. Did your mother never teach you to play nice?

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    9. I get Ceceliac disease. Read too much of her and you end up cramped up in pain.

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    10. Anonymouse 5:42pm, why do you guys turn into scolding ninny hypocrites when you’re getting your butt handed to you due to your brainless over-reaching.

      No one has called you f-face here. Where are your sensibilities when that happens to others?

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    11. Your quips aren’t handing any butts to anyone.

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    12. Anonymouse 6:34pm, where were you when Somerby was labeled a pedophile yesterday?

      It’s my hope that he read that and …as a START… is in contact with his internet provider and Blogger.

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    13. What does that have to do with your nasty remarks?

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    14. Anonymouse 6:53pm, I’d say it shows your hypocrisy, but you aren’t hypocritical, you’re malign.

      Delete
  11. Trump did a free wheeling three hours with Rogan yesterday and then a two hour Michigan rally.

    Over in Harris land, her campaign workers were abusing babies in strollers, and fortunately were caught on video and identified.

    Inside the Beyonce event attended by Kamala, a group of abortion doctors entered in single file to wild cheers for killing babies. A person in the crowd had a seizure and the dystopian group of psychotics in white coats looked around waiting for a member of the crowd to help the fallen attendee.

    On Bill Maher's show, Van Jones admitted that the Democrat party has driven out normal people and all that remains are deranged women who scream at babies and cross-dressing men.

    All the joy.


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    1. Anonymouse 3:27pm, when they’re not screaming at babies in strollers, they’re here screaming at Bob and his readers who don’t think he’s a Putin-puppet.

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    2. What are you talking about? What did the babies do?

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    3. I watched most of the Trump Rogan interview. As a campaign event it was very successful.

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    4. I am glad that you are happy that Trump will lose by fewer vote, but he is still going to lose.

      Delete
    5. Well, @4:23 we'll know in less than two weeks. At the moment the average of polls has Trump slightly ahead in every battleground state. He even has a 0.1% lead in the nationwide popular vote.
      https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024/battleground-states
      https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris

      Delete
    6. "Trump supporters in Traverse City, Michigan got tired of the former president keeping them waiting for hours behind schedule for his rally — and many walked out before he arrived.

      The exodus was first flagged by CBS News' Ed O'Keefe, who posted video footage of the restless crowd and some heading for the exits.

      "Trump’s decision to spend hours with @joerogan not going over well with Michiganders, some of whom are leaving as they learn the former president is still More than an hour away."

      I have been reading that Trump is nearly always late to his rallies and that attendees are kept waiting for hours. I don't know how many voters that will lose him, but I also think it reflects badly on someone who wants to be president, that they can't get their act together in order to be on time to their own scheduled events.

      Delete
    7. First, there was only one baby involved, not "babies". Second, she did yell at the child, but the child did not react in any way, wasn't crying or responding at all. Third, she has not been identified as a Democratic party operative -- that seems to be unconfirmed speculation at this point. Fourth, she continued her conversation with the father and the child was still not crying or concerned. Fifth, it was so noisy that a lot of yelling was going on, which may be why the child didn't feel yelled at and was not crying or concerned. Sixth, given the way the woman was dressed, it seems unlikely she had any official function with the campaign.

      It is not possible to make out what the woman said to the child. The woman laughed after shouting, so the interaction could have been a joke or a prank or even meant to entertain the child. It was a strange interaction, but it didn't seem abusive as Cecelia suggests, judging by the child's reaction. The dad and a bystander were upset by her approaching the child. More info is needed, but apparently Cecelia and the right is running with their negative interpretation.

      Delete
    8. At the moment Kamila is behind in the polls and behind in momentum. Nevertheless I can thing of some ways that she might win
      1. Some huge blunder by Trump
      2. Some devastating facts about Trump that were previously unknown. The "October surprise"
      3. Superior "get out the vote" effort
      4. Use her financial advantage to drown the swing states in effective ads.
      5. Perhaps the polls are wrong, and Kamala is actually ahead right now.

      Delete
    9. OTOH Trump might win by a bigger margin than the polls indicate. At the moment he is winning the race for favorable publicity, e.g. the McDonald's stunt, the Joe Rogan interview, and the coming rally in Madison Square Garden. These things are barely reflected in current polls.

      Delete
    10. Harris could stop obsessing over demonizing Trump come out with a stronger message defending Biden's record: low unemployment, border under control, record high stock market.

      Delete
    11. Good point @7:55. Harris is running on a contradictory message: "Biden did everything right and I am an agent of change."

      She should have gone one way or the other. Either
      "Biden did things right and I will continue these effective policies" or
      "Biden did some things that worked out badly. Having learned from his experience I will fix these things."

      Delete
    12. I watched Trump’s gibberish and word salad non responses to questions. As campaign events, they were very successful. But then, I’ve never seen a Trump appearance that seemed unsuccessful to me. Sighed, dumbass in cal.

      Delete
    13. The Trump-Rogan interview is looking like a home run for Trump
      Trump’s episode of the Joe Rogan Experience has now amassed over 20-million views on YouTube in 20 hours since its release – making it one of the most viral episodes in the popular podcast’s history.

      The episode’s massive viewership dwarfs his average audience, which on tops out at around a couple millions views on YouTube. The Trump episode is trending to be one of the show’s most viewed episodes ever.

      Delete
    14. David, it was viewed a lot. But what did Trump say? Gibberish? Anything worthwhile? Did Rogan ask any worthwhile questions? I mean, I’m sure you’re glad that Trump gets an audience, but he is a lunatic, and that doesn’t bother you. Hitler got big audiences too, by the way.

      Delete
    15. Rogan was laughing at Trump. His young audience won’t have missed that.

      Delete
    16. David in Cal,
      Aren't you glad that Rogan's 2 hour and 45 minute interview with Trump is over?
      Now, Rogan can go back to obsessing about Jeffrey Epstein nonstop. On the other hand, completely forgetting Jeffrey Epstein's existence for almost 3 hours was probably good for Rogan's psyche.

      Delete
    17. Rogan is a kind interviewer. He makes his guests look good. He would have done the same for Kamala if she had been his guest.

      Rogan asked some of the standard questions, like Trump's claim that he really didn't lose in 2020. Trump had answers prepared, although they were not terribly convincing.

      But, what I think will affect the election is that Trump came across as a well-informed, reasonable, calm human being. Also, they came across as buddy-buddy. In fact, they do have some interests in common. At one point, Rogan praised Trump's comic time. Rogan acknowledged that Trump is a skilled stand-up comedian. They both have an interest in show business. And, the both a big, big wrestling fans.

      I'm sure Trump gained votes, but how many? If this podcast eventually reaches 30 million viewers, what percentage will vote for Trump because of this podcast? I'd be surprised if as many of 1% of them will switch to voting for Trump. Since there are around 150 million voters, 1% of 30 million is only 0.2% of the electorate.

      Delete
    18. Is Rogan is a kind interviewer?
      Or, more likely, is Rogan too stupid to know when he's being lied to?

      Delete
    19. Trump's disdain for Republican voters is easily the best thing about him.

      Delete
    20. David, I have no idea why I try to get you to reconsider anything, but why do you think Bob keeps saying Trump is “disordered” and/or “mentally ill” and you refuse to accept that, even when you say you admire his truth-telling? And what do you think he means when he worries about the end of democracy in connection with Trump’s potential reelection? You seem completely blasé about it. Those are not trivial concerns. All you seem to want to do is quote poll numbers showing how close the race is. Don’t you think that fact kind of bothers Bob?

      Delete
    21. Fair question, Why?. First of all, I have no doubt that Bob is telling the truth, as he sees it, when he calls Trump mentally ill. But, Bob doesn't actually know whether Trump is mentally ill, nor do I. We're not psychiatrists and we haven't had an opportunity to evaluate Trump's mentality. One basic difference is that Bob tends to look at words and I tend to look actions.

      I'm blasé about Trump's sanity because he actually was President for 4 years and IMO things went pretty well during that period. Look at world peace, inflation, illegal immigration.

      For me, antisemitism is a big issue. I'm horrified at the way some top universities go along with antisemitic demonstrations and actions. I'm not sure how much of this is affected by the President, but it wasn't happening when Trump was President. And, Trump promised to give greater protection to Jews. Since his close family includes several Jews, I tend to think Trump will really do more to fight antisemitism.

      Delete
    22. Your memory is failing you. The COVID pandemic was so mishandled by Trump that Kaiser published a paper estimating 250,000 excess deaths due to his mismanagement, an estimate that paralleled another, the Lancet study indicating that 40% of US deaths were avoidable if not for Trump's failure. This was his Katrina and in part responsible for a miserable 31% approval rating by Harris polling in 2020, after the American public booted him out of office.

      Delete
    23. "I'm blaze about Trump's sanity..." Well said.You own it. I've never encountered a Trump cultist so refreshing in his candor as to state the unthinkable. Moronically bizarre.

      Delete
    24. And, Trump promised to give greater protection to Jews.

      Who's your big daddy, Dickhead?

      Republicans always love to deflect attention from their own extreme radical fascist agenda by pointing to something going on on college campuses. This is a tried a true trick.

      Dickhead in Cal must have forgotten about the massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh that happened under Bid Daddy's personal protection on October 27, 2018.

      What motivated Robert Bowers, the perpetrator of this act of hate?

      ...... He claimed Jews were aiding members of Central American caravans moving toward the United States border and referred to those migrants as "invaders".[14] Shortly before the attack, he posted on Gab that "HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I'm going in."[18][91][63] According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, "the mention of 'optics' references a disagreement that has raged within the white nationalist movement since the Unite the Right rally in 2017 about how best to get their message across to the general public".[92]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting

      I wonder where Bowers got the idea about the caravans invading our country.

      Look at world peace, inflation, illegal immigration.

      Who's your big daddy, Dickhead? Border crossings were spiking under Trump until Covid shut everything down and his "wall" is a fucking joke. Mexico paid not a nickel. Unemployment was about 19% when Trump left office. What caused the inflation, Dickhead? You think it had anything to do with the vast sums of money Trump handed out through the Cares Act and various other mechanisms used by the Federal government in response to the economic hardships brought on by Covid?

      I really hate your repeated dishonesty on these issues.


      And that motherfucker looked the American people in eye and lied his corrupt ass off about Covid, you ass. How the fuck can anyone give him a pass on that?

      Delete
    25. David in Cal,
      Re: Trump's mental state
      It's like the the old adage, "Nothing is certain but death, taxes, and that there is no such thing as a Republican voter who cares about anything other than bigotry and white supremacy."

      Delete
  12. "Watching MSNBC is like tuning into an insane asylum"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clearly you've never experienced whan an insane asylum or even a psych ward is like.

      Delete
    2. Clearly all anonymices have.

      Delete
    3. What does a gratuitous derogatory remark like this contribute to discussion, Cecelia?

      Delete
    4. Anonymouse 5:05pm, what makes my comment particularly good is that it’s correct. Anonymices are more thanlikely to be a Ringling Brothers Circus of psychiatric evals and sessions, medications, therapy groups, and yearly hospitalizations.

      Come off it- where are your fragile sensibilities when “fanboys” are cussed out and insulted?

      Delete
    5. Funny, actual studies show better mental health among blue states than red.

      Delete
    6. Anonymouse 6:33pm, you constantly tell us how brilliant you are and then you make comments like this. What does that have to do with screwed-up anonymices in any part of the country?

      Delete
    7. Deflect deflect deflect

      Delete
    8. Anonymouse 6:57pm, you brought up blue states and now can’t answer a direct question as to blue states. Deflecting is you.

      Delete
    9. You didn’t ask any question.

      Delete
    10. Watching Right-wingers is like watching a bunch of bigots whining and crying about how minorities have it better than them.

      Delete
  13. Abortion doctors do not kill "babies" but save women. It takes courage to practice as an ob/gyn these days, especially in a red state. That is what the applause was for. Courage.

    If you know someone who has seizures, you may understand that intervening, especially medically, may not be what is needed. Typically, you wait for the seizure to end and then talk to the person about how they want to handle it. Sending someone with a seizure disorder to the emergency room every time they have one is an unnecessary and disruptive interruption to their life (also may be expensive to them).

    Van Jones sounds like he wasn't making much sense. Who screams at babies in any political party?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This story about the baby is another manufactured story generated and spread by the right to smear Harris by pretending her staff did something improper.

      Delete
  14. Breaking News -- Another Republican is telling lies!

    "According to several recent reports, Tim Sheehy lied about his military service.

    On the campaign trail, Sheehy claimed he had a gunshot wound in his arm from combat. But according to the New York Times, public records, and firsthand accounts—including a Navy SEAL who served with Sheehy—his gunshot wound was from accidentally shooting himself in the arm in Glacier National Park.
    Days later, NBC News released another bombshell report stating Sheehy lied about being “medically discharged” from the Navy."

    If you live in Montana, I hope you will be voting for Tester. If you live elsewhere, ask yourself why so many Republicans think it is OK to tell these campaign whoppers.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Thiesen mischaracterizes the Mueller report and Trump did say he would use the military so MT is full of it as he usually is. As to whether Harris should literally quote Trump? I see no reason why not but I doubt it would matter much.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thiesen probably didn't even read the Mueller report. People are always lying about what it says.

      Delete
    2. Including bill barr.

      Delete
    3. I believe that was debunked - that Barr lied about the Mueller Report.

      Delete
  16. Here is the racist part of Trump's anti-immigration policy:

    "Elon Musk Launched His Career Working Illegally
    October 26, 2024 at 4:28 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard [Political Wire]

    “Long before he became one of Donald Trump’s biggest donors and campaign surrogates, South African-born Elon Musk worked illegally in the United States as he launched his entrepreneurial career after ditching a graduate studies program in California,” the Washington Post reports.

    “Musk in recent months has amplified the Republican presidential candidate’s claims that “open borders” and undocumented immigrants are destroying America, broadcasting those views to more than 200 million followers on the site formerly known as Twitter, which Musk bought in 2022 and later renamed X.”

    “What Musk has not publicly disclosed is that he did not have the legal right to work while building the company that became Zip2, which sold for about $300 million in 1999.”

    Like Musk, Melania worked illegally in the US before using her relationship with Trump to leverage a visa. That doesn't seem to have ever bothered Trump, based on his immigration attitudes. Trump wants immigrants who are white, who come from good countries not shithole countries (his word). This is about race, not about legality and not about people coming here who were not born here. Republicans know this and Somerby does too. That's why an elderly recluse in Baltimore, far from any American border, is so very worried about more immigrants coming here, to the point that it is his main criticism of Kamala Harris -- that she didn't talk about the border enough.

    But no one cares about actual immigration policies or even procedures that let white people work in the US illegally, simply by doing so (skipping their return flight on a tourist or student visa). This is about keeping out people with dark skin. And that is racism.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Try telling that to the illegal Poles in Chicago!

      Delete
    2. How many are being repatriated? None, I’ll bet.

      Delete
    3. Elon Musk?
      Lock that mother-fucker up.

      Delete
  17. "In a recent post on his Truth Social platform, Donald Trump issued an ominous message to his political opponents, warning that if he wins the 2024 election, he intends to pursue mass arrests and severe legal action against anyone he believes is involved in “cheating” or “skullduggery” in U.S. elections. This list extends beyond traditional candidates to include lawyers, political donors, election officials, and “illegal voters."

    Given that Trump hasn't mastered the concept of evidence, I think political activists are right to be concerned about whether Trump will take reprisals against ordinary people active in their communities during this election. The way to stay safe from such politically motivated persecution is to make sure Trump doesn't get elected again. Otherwise we are all going to be contributing to legal defense funds for our fellow Democratic organizers and helping those in trouble in the new administration. I think Democrats have legitimate fears about this, no matter how innocuous and legal our organizing efforts have been.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I voted for Trump this morning. When Trump is done I'll probably go back to voting Independent.

      Delete
    2. It is good to know who to hold responsible.

      Delete
    3. Trump runs his mouth but has always appeared to have a distaste for following through with holding deserving people accountable.

      Not so for the Democrats who never got over Hillary's loss and have been on a fascist quest to imprison or murder him.

      Delete
    4. In your dreams. Trump is a crook.

      Delete
    5. I wonder what Harris will do after her political career ends in a week and a half.

      Delete
    6. She will continue her term as Vice President.

      Delete
    7. I believe the Supreme Court has shown us the way. Biden has absolute immunity when he orders DOJ to arrest Trump immediately and cancel the election.

      Delete
    8. RE: Democrats worried about Trump locking up his enemies
      Did they forget about the 2nd Amendment?

      Delete
  18. Trump was just endorsed by Muslim Imams at his rally in Michigan, and the Arab mayors of Dearborn Heights and Hamtramck.

    What the hell is going on?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. economic anxiety

      Delete
    2. Trump's support for Israel is stronger than Harris's so why do so many Muslims support him? Perhaps it's because Trump is seen as better at creating peace, which is good for Israelis and Muslims. Or, maybe it's because Islam is a misogynistic religion

      Delete
    3. Were they wearing t-shirts that read "Muslims for Trump"? You can buy a lot these days, as Trump proved when he bought himself some black supporters and some pretend union workers. Trump is trying to draw votes away from Harris in order to make swing state results a little closer (to enhance the steal).

      Delete
    4. "Or, maybe it's because Islam is a misogynistic religion."
      It's all relative. In comparison with the current GOP, Islam is the religion of feminism.

      Delete
  19. Why shouldn't someone pawn their intelligence to buy a drink. Drink makes you stupid anyway, so you aren't going to need that intelligence while drinking. And drinking in moderation is a harmless pleasure, a stress reliever and source of social interaction with friends. So what is "Edward"'s beef? Does Somerby not drink? "Pawn" means you get that intelligence back again, presumably when you sober up. Sounds like "Edward" is a killjoy and prude.

    Some things sound smart but really aren't when you think about them. Does Somerby ever think about things?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to the new CNN poll, just 16% of voters said they were better off financially than a year ago, 49% said worse off, 35% said “about the same".

      Delete
    2. People who have been told repeatedly that they are worse off will repeat that when asked.

      Delete
    3. People aren't happy about the Dem party's performance, to put it mildly.

      Delete
    4. I don't like him and am not voting for him but I will be perfectly fine with another Trump presidency. It doesn't affect my life that much either way.

      Delete
    5. 9:07,
      49% of voters? That's a lot of "Fuck Your Feelings" t-shirts we're going to need to give out.

      Delete
    6. This reminds me of the huge majority of voters who want abortion on demand.

      Delete
    7. 10:39 That's a lot of "Fuck Your Feelings" t-shirts we're going to need to give out.

      Delete
    8. 9:22 Good for you. Not the part about it not affecting your life. The part about your not giving a crap about how it would affect others. Because other people may have pensions and profit sharing plans that will be affected by a Trump planned economic policy that has been uniformly lambasted as wrongheaded by economists, most recently 23 Nobel laureates. And although you may not have any money at risk, future generations will have to deal with the national debt incurred by a clown who skyrocketed it by 8 trillion dollars his first term, when he could actually speak in full sentences. The American taxpayer was largely responsible for whatever success Trump had economically , via direct payments to citizens during Covid, or farmers to keep them afloat in the turmoil he placed them in with his tariff policy. It turns out that a businessman with a record of six bankruptcies, a reputation of not paying his contractors, and an inability to get a loan from any US bank prior to his political career has the kind of simple minded bad ideas that would be expected from an old progressively demented man.

      Delete
  20. Hopefully, the Right won't throw another childish temper tantrum in D.C., because black people's votes are definitely going to be counted in the 2024 Presidential election.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I was sitting amongst a group of old white guys like DIC when one of them extolled Musk stating that he is the modern era's Einstein. Of course he is, if you are uneducated, but it got me to wondering, what would have happened if Einstein was found to have had private conversations with Hitler during the war? Here we had a candidate and his major benefactor communicating with our enemy, as private citizens, with Putin now engaged in a misinformation campaign using social media owned by Musk. Nothing to look at here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://youtu.be/yuBe93FMiJc?t=21

      Delete
  22. Cryptocurrency prices have suddenly surged. People ask if now is the best time to invest? before jumping into conclusion i think you should take a look at things first. BTC price is gearing for a massive move upwards, even though the crypto market has been recording many downturns this 2024, the instrument seems to hold its ground. Investors who bought early are still in profit despite the recent price crash and they also earn by trading. There has been a lot of interest in BTC trading, many investors and newbies are actively engaging in the trade on platforms where they can accumulate more profit. We should follow the way of earning more regardless of the current market (bulls or bears), which is trading. Buy the dip now and trade, I have been able to recover all my lost crypto/funds and made $10,000-$20,000 profits not just by buying the dip but implementing trades with signals supplied by my broker Mr Bernie Doran, his trading signals and strategies are 100% accurate . He can be reached on Gmail : Berniedoransignals@gmail.com or WhatsApp : +1(424)285-0682

    ReplyDelete