How bad does elite reporting get?

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2023

Consider the case of George Santos: Is there really any such thing as a "compulsive / pathological liar?"

You hear those twin terms thrown around all the time. But is some such psychiatric syndrome actually known or believed to exist?

We've been wondering about that question for the obvious reason. The lunacy of many of George Santos' claims has us wondering about what can explain his behavior.

Is Santos some sort of "compulsive liar?" Do such people even exist? The leading authority on the topic offers the following overview at the start of a much longer discussion. In general, it seems to align with what we've read at other more specialized sites:

Pathological lying

Pathological lying, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is a chronic behavior in which the person habitually or compulsively lies. These lies often serve no obvious purpose other than to paint oneself as a hero or victim, depending on the circumstance. Pathological lying has been defined as: "a persistent, pervasive, and often compulsive pattern of excessive lying behavior that leads to clinically significant impairment of functioning in social, occupational, or other areas; causes marked distress; poses a risk to the self or others; and occurs for longer than six months." Others have defined pathological lying as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view..."

It was first described in the medical literature in 1890 by G. Stanley Hall and in 1891 by Anton Delbrück. There is still much controversy in the fields of psychology and psychiatry about whether or not pathological lying is a unique disorder or merely a symptom of other disorders. A widely agreed-upon description of or diagnostic criteria for pathological lying behaviour does not exist, resulting in controversy regarding what it truly means to be a pathological liar. 

[...]

Pathological lying is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, although only as a symptom of other disorders such as antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders, not as a stand-alone diagnosis. 

Is there any such thing as a "pathological liar?" According to that account, the syndrome isn't listed in the DSM "as a stand-alone diagnosis." It is, however, included therein "as a symptom of other disorders."

That leaves us wondering what a qualified medical specialist might say about the long-standing, extremely strange behavior of Santos, our most widely discussed member of Congress. Inevitably, we had seen no such discussion in the upper-end mainstream press or on our favorite "cable news" programs, despite the endless hours our cable stars waste clucking about his conduct.

Yesterday, the Washington Post attempted to report on this question, or it may be that the Washington Post just pretended to do so. We were attracted to the report by the unintentionally childish way the report was headlined on the seemingly endless front page of the Post's devolving web site:

What made George Santos lie so much? Experts weigh in on his deception.
We asked lie experts to weigh in on George Santos and compare him with convicted fabulists such as Bernie Madoff and Elizabeth Holmes. 

Seriously though, folks! According to that sub-headline, the Post had asked an array of "lie experts" to help them assess the behavior of America's best-known member of Congress.

The Post had consulted a bunch of "lie experts!" Was the Post presenting a real report, or were they just pretending? 

The assignment had gone to Roxanne Roberts, a good, decent person who isn't a medical journalist or even a science writer. That same leading authority offers this overview:

Roxanne M. Roberts (born 1954 in Minneapolis, Minnesota) is a style writer for The Washington Post. She was co-author of "The Reliable Source" column with Amy Argetsinger, the paper's daily chronicle of Washington D.C.'s notables and society events. She is a regular panelist on the NPR quiz show Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me!

In 2000, Roberts appeared on the "In" list in Washingtonian magazine...

Roberts is a good person. It isn't her fault that she isn't a medical journalist; we aren't medical journalists either. Very few people are, but major newspapers like the Post used to employ some such people.

That said, Roberts' report was predictably thin and pointless. She quoted zero medical specialists as she gossip-columned her way through the pointless pseudo-report.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but our upper-end journalism is very weak. The Washington Post in particular is visibly falling apart.

For extra credit only: Tucker Carlson tangentially tackled this topic last night. For Mediaite's report on the clown show which ensued, you can just click here.


29 comments:


  1. tl;dr
    "Is there really any such thing as a "compulsive / pathological liar?""

    No idea. But there's definitely such thing as a "politician". Mr Santos is an inexperienced one; he lies a little, his lies are naive, unprofessional. The experienced ones lie better, lie more.

    ...much more, dear Bob, much more...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh how insightful!!

      Delete
    2. If you don't read the article, you cannot comment on it.

      Delete
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  2. One thing Bob ( one of many) doesn’t
    get is that Santos is a good news story.
    The built in mystery ( who IS this
    fruitcake?) would hold your attention
    even if the divide in Congress was
    not razor thin.

    ReplyDelete
  3. "You hear those twin terms thrown around all the time. But is some such psychiatric syndrome actually known or believed to exist?"

    Does it matter? Of course it doesn't. Lying for any reason is socially destructive and not acceptable behavior. It doesn't matter whether someone is doing it because they are a sociopath or because they are schizophrenic or simply not in close touch with reality, or narcissistically fond of self-aggrandizement. The lie and the context must be evaluated in its own right and no diagnostic label excuses such lying, especially when crimes are involved.

    Somerby seems to think that if you can attach a label to someone then they are absolved of their wrongdoing. That isn't the purpose of psychiatry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you substitute the word drunk or consider someone a drug abuser, does that do any better at absolving someone of crimes? I don't think so. Leniency comes at sentencing time, not when deciding whether someone's actions are against the law, and surely the harm done to others must also be considered.

      Delete
  4. "Is there any such thing as a "pathological liar?" According to that account, the syndrome isn't listed in the DSM "as a stand-alone diagnosis." It is, however, included therein "as a symptom of other disorders.""

    This is a controversy about how to classify pathological lying. It doesn't mean that anyone thinks such lying doesn't happen. Of course there are people who lie like this. We just don't know what causes them to do it and how to classify such a disorder for insurance purposes (because that is what the DSM is for).

    ReplyDelete
  5. Somerby isn't going to get a definitive explanation from a lie expert. They will say that there are various reasons why people tell lies, but they will not have examined Santos (and more than Bandy Lee examine Trump) so they cannot say why Santos himself told so many lies. One lie expert is Paul Ekman, a clinical psychologist who wrote a good book called "Telling Lies." Somerby should read it -- it is a trade book intended for the general public.

    Santos has benefitted materially from his lies. That makes him an instrumental liar, someone who gets something from his lies, who tells them for a reason. That makes him not in the same category as those who tell lies for no personal benefit except to look better than they are. All people, including those who are not pathological liars, will tells lies to escape trouble, to look better, to get something they want. A huge number of people inflate their resumes. Somerby is not qualified to diagnose Santos as pathological under these circumstances, nor can one do that with Trump, even though his lies are easily uncovered. No one has the power to punish him for telling his lies and that makes a difference.

    It is time for Somerby to stop offering psychiatric excuses for Republicans. These guys know they are doing something wrong and they should be held accountable for their actions. Letting them off the hook by calling them crazy is, as Somerby puts it, unhelpful behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Reporters are not to blame for Santos's lying.

    ReplyDelete
  7. IMO Santos lied so much because he could get away with it. Same reason Donald Trump, Joseph Biden and Adam Schiff lied so much. Remember when Harry Reid was proud of lying about Mitt Romney supposedly not paying taxes. Reid said, "They can call it whatever they want. Romney didn't win did he?"

    Except Schiff got a well-deserved comeuppance by being removed from the Foreign Affairs Committee, and properly so.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Biden & Schiff don’t lie the way Trump & Santos do. Putting them in the same sentence doesn’t make them equivalent.

      Delete
    2. Schiff is one of the world's biggest lying scumbags. He's the worst out of the four.

      Delete
    3. At worst, Schiff climbs to second worst of five, if you add David in Cal to the mix.

      Delete
  8. Humans, broadly speaking, aren’t naturally right wing, it’s the result of unresolved trauma, typically childhood trauma. Trauma and the resultant urge for dominance, shifts things like lying from being problematic traits to weapons. There are few more powerful weapons of oppression than storytelling (lying).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Americans can only be left-wing today by ignoring real-world consequences.

      E.g., liberals want affordable housing for the less wealthy. Many liberals support rent control, even though rent control inevitably results in fewer affordable housing units.

      Liberals want to reduce the number of black murder victims. They support various moves that weaken police protection, even though weaker police protection results in an increase in black murder victims. One can see the horrific results in many cities right now.

      Liberal want to see fewer people shot to death. They support widespread restrictions on legal gun use, even though criminals will ignore these laws.

      Liberals want poor black children to do better academically. They support Head Start even though studies show that Head Start produces no lasting academic gains. Nor do liberal actively work to reform Head Start into something that will produce lasting academic gains.

      Delete
    2. These assertions are not factually correct. They are right wing disinformation.

      Delete
    3. @7:56, I assume you're well-intentioned, but look at some facts
      "Head Start Earns an F: No Lasting Impact for Children by First Grade" https://www.heritage.org/education/report/head-start-earns-f-no-lasting-impact-children-first-grade

      "How Rent Control Makes Housing Less Affordable" https://freopp.org/rent-control-paper-f565f84517c5

      Delete
    4. Quoting the source of your disinformation is unhelpful. Head start produces non-academic benefits long term, such as graduating and staying out of jail.

      Delete
    5. Google "Head Start and Outcomes" and you will find an abundance of studies regarding preschool intervention and long term outcomes. Cherry picking the results of a right wing think tank's efforts while ignoring the large amount of work done elsewhere is a form of dishonesty that DIC is well acquainted with.To pretend publicly that the Heritage Foundation is definitive here when the facts are so easily accessible is b.s. and would be embarrassing to an honest person.

      Delete
    6. The Heritage Foundation?
      Was the Ku Klux Klan not available?

      Delete
    7. The one good thing David in Cal has brought to TDH over theses many years, is his spot-on recitation that policing gets worse if you try to hold the police accountable for their actions. If it wasn't for DinC, many TDH readers would never have known the police are running a protection racket.

      Delete
    8. Republicans like DIC like mass shootings. That is why they support the sale of automatic weapons to teenagers and are lock step with the demands of gun lobbyists. That is why they support for the sale of guns without requiring permits, as is the newest GOP talking point in F!orida. That is why they are a rarified breed of phoney godless assholes despite their thoughts and prayers every time schoolchildren are mass murdered thanks to their craven bullshit arguments about criminals disobeying the law.

      Delete
  9. Reporters do not need to be experts in every field of expertise they cover.

    If Somerby is going to criticize Roberts, he needs to come up with something she actually did wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "Roberts is a good person. It isn't her fault that she isn't a medical journalist; we aren't medical journalists either. "

    That is an understatement -- Somerby has no medical expertise and no journalistic expertise either. So on what basis can he criticize Roberts? None, expect that he seems to have a thing about female journalists and cannot resist calling them underqualified, even when he himself cannot find anything wrong with their work, as is the case today.

    ReplyDelete
  11. It is against the ethics of the psychiatric profession to diagnose someone remotely, via the media, and without examination. That is partly why Bandy Lee lost her license to practice. This is why you won't get any mental health professionals to diagnose Santos and explain what kind of pathological liar he might be -- without having the chance to examine him (which they will not get from him -- he isn't crazy enough to allow that without a court order).

    ReplyDelete
  12. The media should report on Santos. He is the latest in a large and rapidly growing list of Republicans who are either delusional, or saddled with severe personality disorders, or maybe just liars, grifters and con artists. The cumulative effect of the reporting is a valuable public service, to reveal the debased and sociopathic state of the Republican Party. Non-Republicans need to know this. Republicans may be ashamed about their party, but I wouldn’t count on it. The media just has to keep reporting so the rest of us can see.

    It is immaterial whether Santos or Trump or Republican x, y,z…ad infinitum are lying, delusional, or whatever. These types of people find a welcoming home in the Republican Party, and that is what the public needs to know, not some pointless and ultimately inconclusive debate among “experts” about the “true” psychological nature of Santos’ or Trump’s behavior.

    Somerby is just naturally pissed off that the media is again able to report shameful and destructive behavior from yet another Republican. In Somerby’s foolish world, it’s called “clucking” and “bad elite reporting.”

    Good job, GOP.

    ReplyDelete
  13. By the way, from “Psychology Today”:

    “Why Pathological Liars Keep Lying”

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-nature-deception/202203/why-pathological-liars-keep-lying

    The author is a PhD in psychology.

    ReplyDelete
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