What have they done with the real Kevin Drum?

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2017

Childish scribe does it again:
What have they done with the real Kevin Drum? You know? The one who used to be bright?

We asked the important question last week and actually got a reply. In our view, the answer was so childish and so silly that we haven't been able to bring ourselves to comment upon it.

According to Drum, the real Kevin Drum died on November 8. A new Kevin Drum has taken his place. This self-serving answer is morally gross in an array of ways.

Can we talk? Kevin Drum sat out the several decades of war which led to November 8. One day later, he apparently decided it was time for a new Kevin Drum to stage an heroic new fight.

The way he's chosen to fight is unintelligent, silly, dumb. Consider the latest post in this ridiculous street-fighting line. It appeared beneath this street-fighting headline:

"We Need to Agree On a Set of Rules For Calling Something a Lie"

Jesus H. Trump! The English language assembled that "set of rules" way back in the annals of time.

When can we fiery pseudos say that Trump has "lied?" In his latest silly attempt to outfit himself with powerful bombs, Drum has a particular type of instance in mind.

He starts with Trump's ridiculous recent assertion, in which he said that news orgs are now refusing to report terrorist attacks. Let's quote Trump with a bit of precision:

“Radical Islamic terrorists are determined to strike our homeland, as they did on 9/11, as they did from Boston to Orlando to San Bernardino and all across Europe. All over Europe it’s happening. It’s gotten to a point where it’s not even being reported, and in many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn’t want to report it.”

As with many statements by Trump, his claim was so vaguely worded that it's a bit hard to paraphrase. When his press secretary pretended to offer examples of this offense on the part of the press, he committed his latest inane, giant fail.

It was Trump's latest ridiculous statement! Wanting to know if he can say that Trump "lied," Drum posed this silly, dumb question:
DRUM (2/6/17): So here's a good question: If someone says something with no evidence, is it a lie? Please don't try to evade the question with a knowing reference to On Bullshit, either. Let's assume—because I'm a charitable guy—that Trump isn't affirmatively aware that there are no terrorist attacks that the media has ignored, and is deliberately saying the opposite. Let's assume, instead, that he just doesn't know, and said it because it sounded good.

Is that a lie?
That question, which is ambiguously worded, is dumb in a wide range of ways. (Regarding the ambiguity, did Drum's malefactor offer no evidence? Or did it turn out that his malefactor actually had no evidence?)

However we may resolve that point, Drum's question is dumb in several ways. Let's get started:

Drum already knows the answer:

Drum is a native speaker of English. He has spoken English his entire life. At least theoretically, this means that he already knows "what to call" a bit of behavior like the behavior he describes.

Newsflash! There are many unflattering things you can say about behavior like that. For ourselves, as a general matter, we wouldn't start with "lie."

Drum's question has little application to the real world:

Is the behavior Drum described a lie? Even as a theoretical matter, the question is basically dumb. But out here in the actual world, the answer is unlikely to matter. Here's why:

When Trump makes his next ridiculous statement, Drum will have no way of knowing whether Trump has made his statement "with no evidence." He'll also have no way of knowing whether Donald J. Trump believed that he had any evidence.

There will be no way to know these things. For that reason, a theoretical answer to Drum's question will have no real-world applications.

Trump makes ridiculous statements all the time. Given our assessment of Trump, his next ridiculous statement could stem from various causes:

It's our impression that Trump will say X, Y or Z even though he knows that X, Y or Z is false. (By tradition, this is a straightforward "lie.")

It's our impression that Trump will say A, B or C when he doesn't have any idea whether his statement is accurate. (By tradition, that is "reckless" behavior. By tradition, many other unflattering terms may apply.)

It's our impression that Trump may tend to believe a lot of crazy claims. The next time he makes a ridiculous statement, it may be some crazy thing he has heard somewhere and really believes to be true.

Alas! The next time Trump makes a crazy statement, Kevin Drum will have no way of knowing which category the statement belongs to. Unfortunately, people like Drum can't get a simple point like this through their thick tribal heads.

It doesn't even matter whether it's a "lie:"

People like Drum will typically be working from a strange, Trump-like conception. It will seem to them that it's bold to say that somebody "lied," and that no other accusation, description or charge could possibly be effective.

Such thoughts should carry a label saying "mental age 2." Ther are many ways to call a crazy statement a crazy statement without feeling the need to start an argument through the use of our favored bomb, "lie."

Donald J. Trump makes ridiculous statements pretty much all the time. Sometimes he makes sweeping claims which fly in the face of established facts. Sometimes he makes sweeping claims—claims which transparently seem to be false—in the absence of any apparent evidence.

Sometimes he makes inflammatory statements which are so vaguely worded that it's hard to establish what he actually said.

(To this day, have you ever seen a competent paraphrase of what Trump said on June 16, 2015 about all those "rapists?" We haven't! Nor have we seen any liberal "intellectual leader" who seems to be aware of this interpretive problem, or of the best way to describe such sweeping insinuations.)

Increasingly, our hapless team knows only two words; we know the words "racist" and "liar." The use of either term is an almost surefire way to start a debate you're destined to lose, except in the minds of other tribals who are even dumber than you are.

The Conways and the McEnanys are thrilled when we take out our bombs. We need to learn to use our words. There are many more words than those two.

Let's repeat a basic complaint. Drum's childish attempts to define the term "lie" are the work of a man who sat out the 25 years of war which sent Trump to the White House.

On November 8, he decided to fight. Someone should tell him to stop.

Like many others, he's ducked this game his whole adult life. He brings few skills to this fight.

Coming: More on the lunacy of Kellyanne Conway, against whom Drum wants to unloose his most favoritest bomb

34 comments:

  1. Trump's statement is so vaguely worded that one can interpret it various ways. My interpretation is that Trump was saying that the media give less attention to Islamic terrorist attacks than they ought to. This is a pure opinion, which is neither true nor false, It certainly isn't a lie. FWIW I think that the media do give less attention to Islamic terrorist attacks than they ought to. One bit of evidence is that many who rely on the mainstream media are unaware of the true magnitude of Islamic terrorism worldwide.

    Almost seven out 10 Democrats believe Islam “encourages violence… about the same as other religions,” according to a new CBS poll.
    The trusting attitude towards Islam is revealed in the February 2017 poll follows 17 tumultuous years of attacks against Americans motivated or shaped by Islamic ideology throughout the United States—from the 9/11 atrocity to the Pulse nightclub attack in Florida committed by an observant, orthodox Muslim man from a Muslim family.

    Merely one-in-seven Democrats believe that Islam is more violent than other religions, such as Christianity, Mormonism, Judaism, and Buddhism. One-in-ten Democrats believe that Islam is less violent that other religions, according to the poll of 1,019 adults, which was taken Feb. 1 and Feb. 2.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/05/cbs-poll-two-thirds-of-democrats-say-islam-christianity-equally-violent/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You should see how the media papered over the bankers fraud which crashed the world's economy.
      You'd almost think something that definitely happened, didn't.

      Delete
    2. "...vaguely worded...."

      Let's see.
      This is the exact quote.

      "You've seen what happened in Paris and Nice. All over Europe, it's happening. It's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported, and in many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it. They have their reasons, and you understand that."

      * "It's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported..."

      That sounds pretty specific. Give us one example that hasn't been reported.

      Pretty funny since the Bastard President roaming the halls of the WH in his bathrobe has not once mentioned the Canadian attack killing 6 Muslims in a Mosque by a white nationalist.

      "...the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it..."

      That doesn't sound very vague. He is making a specific allegation attacking the media.

      "...They have their reasons, and you understand that..."

      Typical chickenshit baseless attack made by a fucking chickenshit coward. Let him face the media and defend that chickenshit cowardly charge.

      David, I can see you're in love with the madman.

      Delete
    3. Hello, I am Theresa Williams After being in relationship with Anderson for years, he broke up with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back but I am the type that never believed in spell, I had no choice than to try it, I mailed the spell caster, and he told me there was no problem that everything will be okay before three days, that my ex will return to me before three days, he cast the spell and surprisingly in the second day, it was around 4 pm. My ex called me, I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that happened that he wanted me to return to him, that he loves me so much. I was so happy and went to him that was how we started living together happily again. Since then, I have made promise that anybody I know that have a relationship problem, I would be of help to such person by referring him or her to the only real and powerful spell caster who helped me with my own problem. email: drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com you can email him if you need his assistance in your relationship or any other Case.

      1) Love Spells
      2) Lost Love Spells
      3) Divorce Spells
      4) Marriage Spells
      5) Binding Spell.
      6) Breakup Spells
      7) Banish a past Lover
      8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
      9) want to satisfy your lover
      Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
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      Delete
  2. Is there a need to paraphrase Trump's presidential bid announcement? It was not long or unclear:

    "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

    There were many responses in the press to Trump's statement, generally they pointed out that non citizens have lower crime rates and much lower sex crime rates than US citizens, for example:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/?utm_term=.62a2a3f29ed8

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/donald-trump-mexicans-119849

    Trump, in further statements, doubled down on his inaccurate theory of Mexico sending us rapists, at one point, reaching exasperation from those pointing out he was wrong, he bizarrely exclaimed:

    "Well, somebody's doing the raping, Don! I mean somebody's doing it! Who's doing the raping? Who's doing the raping?"

    (Trump reminds me of this Madtv sketch about OJ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umUXVRU_neM

    )

    Here is McEnany's weak and low integrity response to Trump's statement:

    "that's different than saying all 11 million illegal immigrants are in fact rapists"

    then she brought up a single case of an illegal immigrant committing a crime to support Trump's goal of deporting all illegal immigrants and building a wall.

    ReplyDelete
  3. For a supposed philosophy student, this guy sure is weak in rhetoric. He doesn't have a clue how much ad hominem attacks weaken an argument.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I don't know if Ad hominem hurts or helps, but it is certainly the order of the day here, and, with more sadness than rancor, it is impossible to escape the fact Bob Somerby is an idiot.

    What Kevin Drum and everyone else who should be allowed to drive a car has long since come to realize is that Donald Trump has dragged the Presidency of the United States far outside the realm of civilized discourse between normal and rational human beings. It is a very dangerous situation. To worry about weather Donald Trump should be called a liar, indeed, to bogart the point with haughty superiority is comic yet unlike a traffic accident, the strong impulse is to look away.
    Is that a halfway decent person's concern in this daily nightmare we are living? Well, his statements are "vaguely worded." His statements are vague because they are not connected to anything in the known universe. That hardly means he isn't deliberately misleading people or (Horrors!!) lying his gargantuan keister off.
    Big news organizations, with big finical concerns, are struggling with this and more and more coming to the obvious conclusions Kevin Drum has found. It's actually not really a big deal, because Donald Trumps lies are not exactly like typical lies, or the typical subterfuge that is politics. They are admonishments to kiss his ass. He more or less grabs his genitals and screams "I've got your common decency right here!!" Such men don't not care about truth and lies. The people who vote for them do not not care about truth and lies.
    And really, neither does Bob Somerby. He has some strange score to settle with evil wise guy liberals, and those who check back in from time to time to see this car accident get nothing but this kind of garbage. And YES, yes, soon enough we will look away for good. I promise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That'll be the day.

      Delete
    2. Tell you what, think of a handle, post, and you'll never hear from me again.

      Delete
    3. Stop being daft. You'll never not come back. It's a fact and it doesn't have anything to do with me or a handle. I'll point it out on one of your subsequent, blathering posts.

      Delete
    4. Greg, buck up man. You're acting like a woman again.

      Delete
    5. Greg, Somerby has called this whole situation. The reason why Trump will be carrot top in chief for the next 8 years is because of the laziness, snobbishness, density and lack of skill that the press and the liberal press has shown over the past 25 years. People hate liberals so much. They hate you, they hate Bob, they hate me they hate us all so deeply. the New York Times etc. has no credibility with these people and Bob has described the reasons why! I don't like his tone either But he called it man. And now, it's too late. Were cooked and we're now ruled by orangutans. Don't try to blame it on Bob. He f'n called it all along.

      Delete
    6. As a Bernie voter whose second choice was Trump, Bob has been right all along. It couldn't have been spelled out any better. The mainstream Democratic left has taken a turn for the stupid and has nothing in common with liberalism.

      Delete
    7. Greg, are you saying the new York Times and the journalists that carried out the war on Gore "cared about lies"? They did the lying! The invention of whitewater was a lie, started by the so-called liberal New York times. And now all of a sudden it's Trump and his supporters that are the ones that don't care about lies. Get off your high horse, will you? It's too late now. The game is lost. Trumps lies are shows of power. There was a good article about it in the New York Times called "beyond lying: Donald trumps authoritarian reality". You should read it instead of watching your stupid, darling Rachel who is one of the idiots who helped get us here.

      Delete
    8. 2:39,
      They are losers, new technology passed them by, they felt entitled because they were from a society that at one time led the way in human progress.
      Instead of facing those facts, they attended AM Radio/ Fox News/ Rush Limbaugh madrassas, where they were radicalized to hate liberals.
      They are still losers, they just don't realize it yet.

      Delete
    9. Robert - they are using twitter and Reddit to bypass traditional mediums. It's not like they are Luddites. It's true they have been radicalized to hate liberals. I think one of the points being made here is that liberals make it easier for the propagandists to radicalize these constituencies by having their head in the sand and acting like smug, superior dicks. I.e. Acting like losers and losing big time as they lost the election and will contrite to lose and get pummeled. Liberals are literallly losers as you know.

      Delete
    10. "acting like smug, superior dicks"
      Ouch. That'll teach me for not kicking a poor person.
      ----------
      As for liberal losers, sure, but what to do?
      I say, give the Conservatives what they want and what they vote for.
      Government out of business: No more LLCs. Why should the government limit your liabilities? That's just the government messing with the free market.
      Corporate bankruptcy? Pshaw!

      Immigration Reform And Tough on crime: Shut the borders (immigration reform). Any business hiring an illegal immigrant is shut down and the owner imprisoned (tough on crime). Let the the farm owners investment rot on the vine.
      BTW, I pick fruit for $50/ hour plus benefits and two half-hour breaks a day.

      And why does the government want everyone to own a home? Maybe that's the problem. Kill the mortgage interest subsidy, and get the government out of home ownership.

      Don't even get me started on farm and fuel subsidies for rural farmers.

      That's the long-term solution. Give them what they want. Hard. And then Harder.
      The rest of us get ear plugs, so we don't have to hear the whining about how life is so much harder for them.
      These assholes have to learn that just because they don't get a check from the government that says "For Welfare" in the memo field, they are exactly the "takers" they have been bitching about for decades.

      What's your plan?

      Delete
    11. Would you think about what you are saying for a minute sil vous plait? It doesn't matter what our plans are - that's the entire point. We, by being dicks and unfocused and yes, sorry to burst your bubble, dumb, don't have any right or authority to have a plan. You realize this no? No one cares what our plans are. That's your plan? Great. Go tell it to a dog because he's the only one who will listen or care. WE are the ones who are assholes now. WE are the ones who "have to learn". Plan? You have a plan for people who have taken complete power. That doesn't make any sense. They have a plan for you sweetiie. They have lessons to teach you and they are the ones with all the power and that means theirs is the only plan that matters. Have you ever read Reddit/the donald or Brietbart comments. Check it out and you will see for what we have wrought and for what we are in store.

      Delete
    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    13. When the going gets tough, 2:03 AM crawls under the bed and hides.

      The commenters on Reddit and Breitbart are morons who think Conservatives are going to shit all over their enemies and rain down glory on the commenters. They will be sorely disappointed when they find out they aren't wealthy enough for Conservatives to give two shits about.
      The people you are afraid of have no power.

      In the next U.S. Civil War, we won't make the same mistakes as last time and let the losers think they won.
      People think I'm a pacifist because I wasn't stupid enough to support W's Great Iraq Clusterfuck. They'd be shocked to learn this "pacifist" would have turned the South into the North's parking lot.

      Delete
  5. Bob, I've tried to stick with you, but you've finally lost me.

    You're kinda being an ass.

    I'll try back in a few months. Maybe you'll have stopped perseverating about the "lie" thing.

    But, I think you've kind of descended into self-parody.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Somerby, you thought it would be more fun to support Bernie than Hillary. You are as responsible for Trump's election as Drum us, who took a similar stance, unable to find any "enthusiasm" for that woman running for office against Trump.

    You are both responsible for the situation we find ourselves in today. Drum, less so, because California was never in any doubt during the election.

    We are now dealing with a wannabe dictator. Whether he is telling deliberate or accidental lies is not important. Stopping him is.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Drum dubiously equivocated on a few things, but was pretty solid in the Clinton Camp. Bob was generally more conserned with Rachel Maddow than Trump.

      Delete
    2. Dave the Guitar PlayerFebruary 9, 2017 at 12:49 PM

      What is with you people? You come to a blog about the media and criticize the writer about his (apparent) opinions about politicians and ignore his comments about the media. I don't care whether Bob voted for Trump or not. Does it make sense for journalists to decide whether a politician is lying if that decision (by definition) requires the journalist to "know" the knowledge and/or motivation of the politician? The answer has nothing to do with whether Bob supported Hillary enough.

      Delete
    3. People are scapegoating as a way to deal with their confusion about this horrible matter. Yea, it's Bob's fault.

      Delete
    4. "What is with you people? You come to a blog about the media and criticize the writer about his (apparent) opinions about politicians and ignore his comments about the media."

      Bob doesn't seem to understand that corporations own "the media", and only hire talking heads which will toe the company line and report in a way in which is in the best interest of ownership.
      To be amazed that anyone buys it is one thing, to be amazed that it's happening (as Bob does) is something else entirely.

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
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    4) Marriage Spells
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    7) Banish a past Lover
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    ReplyDelete
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  13. Good day,,,,
    Read my testimony!!! Getting ex back after a breakup. Am Cora L. Sanchez 30 from UK, my boyfriend of a 2year just broke up with me and am 28 weeks pregnant. I have cried my self to sleep most of the nights and don’t seem to concentrate during lectures sometimes I stay awake almost all night thinking about him and start to cry all over again. Because of this I end up not having energy for my next day’s classes, my attendance has dropped and am always in uni and on time. Generally he is a very nice guy, he ended it because he said we were arguing a lot and not getting along. He is right we’ve been arguing during the pregnancy a lot. After the break up I kept ringing him and telling him I will change. I am in love with this guy and he is the best guy I have ever been with. I’m still hurt and in disbelief when he said he didn’t have any romantic feelings towards me anymore that hurt me faster than a lethal syringe. He texts me now and then mainly to check up on how am doing with the pregnancy, he is supportive with it but it’s not fair on me, him texting me as I just want to grieve the pain and not have any stress due to the pregnancy. i was really upset and i needed help, so i searched for help online and I came across a website that suggested that Dr Ahmed can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and he told me what to do and i did it then he did a spell for me. 22 hours later, my boyfriend came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my boyfriend are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Ahmed. as it is a place to resolve marriage/relationship issues, do you want to be sure if your spouse is being faithful to you or Do you want your Ex to come back to you Contact.: E-mail: Ahmedutimate@gmail.com or call/Whats-app: +2348160153829 save your crumbling home and change of grades its 100% safe. I suggest you contact him. He will not disappoint you.

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  14. My mouth is full of testimonies, Am Mrs Susan Morgan. my husband left home for two years to south Africa for a tourist, where he meant this Lady and he was bewitch by the girl my husband refuse to come back home again, i cry day and night looking for who to help me, i read a news paper about a powerful spell caster called DR Ekpiku and i contacted the spell caster to help me get my lover back to me and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods we fight for me.. he told me by mid-night when all the spirit is at rest he will cast a spell to reunite my lover back to me. and he did in less than 3 days my husband came back to me and started crying that i should forgive him, i,m so happy for what this spell caster did for me and my husband..email: Ekpikuspelltemple@live.com
    (1)If you want your ex back.
    (2) if you always have bad dreams.
    (3)if You want to be promoted in your office.or if you have a place to work and you need help
    (5)If you want a child.
    (6)[You want to be rich.

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