USING OUR WORDS: Why do we have so many words?

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2017

Part 2—Corn semi-redefines:
Back in 1997, we started calling David Corn "the most polite person in Washington."

Our jest was tied to Corn's reaction to an award-winning piece about "educational standards" in the Baltimore Sunday Sun. In our experience, David Corn is a very good guy, just as he appears to be on your TV machine.

A few years later, in 2004, Corn made a decision we would regard as unwise. He decided to semi-reinvent a well-known term, perhaps in service to political warfare.

The well-known term in question was the well-known and famous term "lie." Corn described his semi-reinvention in the opening pages of his book, The Lies of George W. Bush.

At the time, the notion that Bush was a very big liar had gained wide currency within our liberal tribe. In the year before Corn's book appeared, Joe Conason had published a book called Big Lies. In a slightly more tongue-in-cheek vein, Al Franken—not yet Senator Franken—had published Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them in that very same year.

In retrospect, Bush seems like a cross between Mr. Rogers and the young George Washington when compared to the current president, Donald J. Trump. Just since becoming president, Donald J. Trump has issued a blizzard of wild and unsupported claims, including some which seem transparently false.

At least in terms of volume, this blizzard of peculiar statements dwarfs the lying, or alleged lying, with which we were concerned in the age of George W. Bush.

How many "lies" did that earlier president tell? We can't exactly tell you. But in the early pages of his book, Corn outlined a decision we would regard as unwise:

He said he was taking a new approach to the very concept of "lying" and "lies."

Corn's recasting of these familiar old terms went on for several pages. First, he offered a list of "lies" told by other modern presidents. He even quoted Professor Bok as she defined the term "lie:"
CORN (page 5): [T]here are many varieties of presidential lies...But what can be considered a lie? Sissela Bok, the author of Lying: Moral Choices in Public and Private Life, defines it simply as "an intentionally misleading message in the form of a statement." Intentionally? That may get Reagan off the hook—or any other president who truly believes his own spin.
It's hard to believe that we had to turn to Professor Bok to access such a mundane definition of such a well-known term. Truth to tell, professors don't know more about such everyday matters than the average shlub on the street.

That said, yes! As every school child is likely to know, a person "who truly believes" a statement he makes won't normally be accused of telling a "lie" if the statement turns out to be false. As a general matter, you have to know your statement is false to be accused of a "lie."

(For the record: In saying that Reagan may have truly believed his own "spin," it can be imagined that Corn indulged in some spin of his own.)

In that passage, Corn turned to "a Swedish-born American philosopher and ethicist, the daughter of two Nobel Prize winners," to tell us something everyone knows about the traditional meaning of the famous term, "lie." You can't blame Bok for Corn's behavior. But when writers do such things, we advise you to check your wallets, even when they're good guys.

Corn told us something we already knew. He then proceeded to offer something resembling a redefinition:
CORN (continuing directly): Intentionally? That may get Reagan off the hook—or any other president who truly believes his own spin. But because presidential lies matter more than most—they can lead to wars, decide elections, break or make vital policy decisions—I would propose a slightly different standard for White House occupants.
Uh-oh! Corn was proposing a "slight" change in the way we apply a well-known term to acertain class of people. In this passage, he continued his conceptual coup d'etat:
CORN (continuing directly): I would propose a slightly different standard for White House occupants. If a president issues a statement, he or she has an obligation to ensure the remark is truthful. The same applies to a presidential candidate who, after all, is seeking an office that comes with the ultimate power. It is not enough for a president or White House contender to believe what he is saying is true; he should know it to be true—within reasonable standards...

Commanders-in-chief and presidential candidates do commit mistakes and misspeak. Given the amount of information they are expected to possess, this is only natural. Not every error or verbal miscue is a lie. But a president has a duty to acknowledge and correct any significant misstatement he or she utters—especially if that slip has somehow worked to his advantage. An untruth that might have been spoken accidentally becomes a lit if a president and his aides permit it to stand.
Few people would disagree with the bulk of Corn's statements. To wit:

"Within reasonable standards," presidents should make a serious effort to ensure that their statements are accurate.

"Within reasonable standards," a president should correct significant misstatements once he or she has learned that his or her statement was false.

Few people would disagree with those high-minded judgments. But uh-oh! Corn was offering these obvious thoughts as justification for something resembling a change in the English language, a well-known institution and means of exchange accepted all over the world.

From this point forward, Corn would employ "a slightly different standard" for saying that Bush had "lied." This is a great way to fire the base. It may also be a great way to lose future arguments.

You can read the rest of Corn's presentation to consider his full reinvention. But is it a good idea to change the "standard" according to which we will say that someone has lied?

A cynic would tell you that such an approach might help an author sell books. We can imagine the difference in sales between two identical books which have these different titles.

Actual title in bold:

The Significant Misstatements of George W. Bush
The Lies of George W. Bush

How about comparative sales of these identical books?

Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
Significant Misstatements and the Significant Misstaters Who Make Them

A cynic would say that Corn's approach is a good way to sell books. Manifestly, it's also a good way to stir up the liberal base.

Unfortunately, that cynic might also say this—Corn's redefined "standard" for dropping L-bombs may be a good way to lose arguments. But we'll leave that claim for another day. For today, let's consider the source of the traditional uses of our best-known words.

Our language gives us many ways to talk about bogus statements. We can talk about falsehoods, misstatements and lies. We can talk about statements which are false, and about statements which are misleading.

We can talk about facts which are accurate but "selective." We can talk about claims which are false, but also about claims which are unsupported or unfounded.

Is "dissembling" the same thing as lying? How about embellishing, embroidering or exaggerating? Is suggesting the same thing as saying? Our language has a wide array of terms which are used to discuss inaccurate statements. So does every other developed language across the vast span of the globe.

Why does our language have so many words? Because millions of people, down through the millennia, have found it useful to observe the distinctions which were captured in the development of all those words!

Millions of people, over thousands of years, decided that there is a difference between a statement which is misleading and a statement which is false. The traditional use of these terms is a product of the ages.

In the past few weeks, we the liberals have been eager to drop powerful bombs on Donald J. Trump. We slept in the woods for twenty-five years. Now we're extremely upset.

We're eager to drop powerful bombs on the head of Donald J. Trump. Because our eagerness outpaces our discipline and our intelligence, we've taken a wide array of bogus claims and dismissed them all as "lies."

When we do this, we make ourselves feel good. If we do this in the title of a book, we may well sell extra copies.

We also set up conversations in which our thrilling claims are easily dismissed or defeated. Because we aren't very smart and we aren't very disciplined, we've been happily losing debates this way over the past many years.

Except in our own weak minds, where we win these debates very time!

Tomorrow: McEnany rolls

54 comments:

  1. I skipped this post. It is a waste of my time to read and a bigger waste for you to write.

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  2. Marquess of Queensberry Rules do not exist in these matters. Tribal fighting is very much winner take all. All the hand-wringing over declaring what is or isn't a lie, per Queensberry, will lead to never calling anything a lie unless it was self confessed as such, perhaps on a deathbed notarized statement. After being beaten with a baseball bat do you actually feel better knowing you didn't hit below the belt?

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    1. Battling to preserve some consensus about what is true isn't tribal fighting. It is preservation of knowledge essential to optimal functioning in the real world. Manipulation of reality in order to control people is tribal, besides being evil. Trump's behavior transcends politics. We are fighting to preserve our democracy, which rests upon an educated populace prepared to behave like responsible citizens. Trump and his appointees are working to undermine that, for their own benefit. We need to resist.

      If Somerby thinks this is just about Republicans and Democrats struggling for political power, he is very wrong. It stopped being about that when Trump got involved, way back during the Republican primaries.

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    2. You prove his point. You believe your opinion defines what is True. Trump's obvious exaggerations and unsupported assertions are minor concerns that you assign disproportionate importance. You use dramatic language like "evil" and "preserve our democracy" and "resist" which exposes your loss of objectivity, so comments like yours, which are pots and pans banging rants and not arguments, are dismissed.

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    3. You are trolling at a liberal blog. I am done wasting time on you.

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    4. That fellow is an institution here at TDH. He has trolled on Mqs. d'Q since time immemorial.

      Thinks it's pretty clever, as douches generally do.

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    5. I think 2:45 has a point.

      Are these major concerns or minor concerns?

      Those already pushing for the impeachment of Trump are trying to make just about EVERY thing into a MAJOR concern. Their hair is always on fire. Examples

      1. Did you see his Christmas card?
      2. He went up the stairs instead of waiting for his wife.
      3. Did you read this tweet? or that tweet?

      I mean really? Really? It is like many on the left do not care about the horrible policies he is likely to enact - they are just filled with hate for the leader of the other tribe (and also for the other tribe).

      I noted with some anger that while Corn called out the lies Bush told about his tax cuts that he instead rushed to defend Obama's arguments for extending the tax cuts and making most of them permanent.

      A lot of the outrage about that policy in retrospect seems to have been phony. Just playin' the rubes.

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    6. Dr. T

      Those minor points are not the reason anyone is suggesting Trump should be impeached.

      Here are some of the reasons:
      1. Failure to divest and separate his business interests from his presidency.
      2. The EO, which violates the 1st Amendment of the Constitution by targeting Muslims for differential treatment.
      3. His receipt of emoluments in the form of payments to his Washington DC Hotel from foreign governments.
      4. His negotiation and receipt of special favors from foreign governments that benefit his business interests, including approval of permits for development.

      I would add his failure to receive intelligence briefings in any form, but I'm not sure what statute covers that except dereliction of duty of the office of president and failure to protect national security.

      Then there is general incompetence, as evidence by his failure to fill a large number of vacant government positions while having also fired the previous employees, so no one is doing the work of the government. It is traditional to leave the old staff in place until the new staff comes in, but Trump has fired the old people without appointing new ones yet. That constitutes mismanagement in my opinion. He recklessly believes government can function without staff because he doesn't know what these people do and thinks govt is overstaffed, but he is risking the wellbeing of citizens to test his opinion.

      The stuff about his Christmas card is nothing. There are good reasons why liberals are concerned about Trump.

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    7. You can't claim that targeting countries that operate under Islamist law, populated with Islamists who could not be adequately vetted or assimilated because of their Islamist beliefs is the same as "targeting Muslims." Everyone understands this including every president who "targeted Muslims" under your definition.

      Asking a prospective immigrant if he believes in honor killing or murdering gays is our right and anyone who opposes these measures and would rather we blindfold ourselves to realities should be ignored. So should anyone like Bill deBlasio who thinks drunk drivers should be spared from deportation. Talk about reckless and failure to protect citizens.

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  3. Somerby says: "Truth to tell, professors don't know more about such everyday matters than the average shlub on the street."

    He needs to read "Telling Lies" by Paul Ekman, a professor who studies deception. It would open his eyes to how much the average person doesn't know about lying, starting the who lies and how much.

    I agree with trittico. Somerby is trying to convince us that Trump shouldn't be called a liar because it wastes political capital and mainly pleases us while alienating potential allies. I think that is totally wrongheaded.

    Corn's statements are correct. A President (or candidate for that office) has a greater burden to ensure his statements are correct. Trump tells blatant lies so frequently that most of what he says is false. That is abnormal in daily life and especially so for a president. It doesn't pleasure us to point this out -- it scares and demoralizes us. But we should not stop calling the president a liar until he stops telling so many lies. This is unacceptable behavior in a president.

    The repetitiveness of Somerby's posts makes it not worth reading but in this case, he is on the wrong track, over and over again.

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    1. "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky."

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    2. If you have any evidence Clinton ever had intercourse with Monica Lewinsky, please present it.

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  4. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose. -Frederick Douglass

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  5. "Intentionally? That may get Reagan off the hook—or any other president who truly believes his own spin."

    NO, that's delusional, which is perhaps more dangerous than mere lying.

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  6. "In retrospect, Bush seems like a cross between Mr. Rogers and the young George Washington when compared to the current president, Donald J. Trump."

    Conservatives like Instapundit maintain that this is part of a long-term pattern. Each new Republican candidate or President is the devil, compared to the more reasonable Republicans in the past. Thus Bush, who was often called "Bushitler", is now a positive role model. Romney is also now a good guy.

    If Instapundit's theory is correct, at some future time, a Republican candidate will be identified as the spawn of Satan, compared to the reasonable and sane Donald J. Trump. Anyone want to put money into a pool about when this will happen?

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    1. What happened during GW Bush's terms: (1) 9/11 attack, which might have been prevented had Bush paid attention to his briefers "Bin Laden Determined to Attack in US"; (2) Iraq war started based on lies about WMD with no connection whatsoever to Al Qaeda; (3) people died during Katrina due to mismanagement by FEMA under Bush appointee lacking experience; (4) banking system collapsed causing major recession due to failure of govt to heed warnings and exercise oversight, blind eye to bank malfeasance. And this leaves out the less major stuff. As I recall Bush was pretty bad in an objective sense, not in comparison to '41 whose main sin was being a Republican. No one considers G.W. a positive role model in retrospect.

      Trump is a different story. Where comparing Bush to Hitler was a metaphor, the comparisons are more literal with Trump.

      I was around recently and I do not remember Romney being called spawn of Satan, other than by some anti-Mormon crazies -- not Democrats.

      I guarantee that no one will consider Trump sane and reasonable at any time in the future. Not even Republicans, is my bet.

      I do continually wonder where Republicans get the constant stream of nonsense that churns out of conservative sites. Some of it is very imaginative, much of it is funny, and yet it is swallowed whole cloth by true believers like you, David, with no critical thinking whatsoever.

      It only took a Google search to find out that Bushitler was repeated far more times by conservative websites than by Democrats, and that no one called Romney Satan except a bizarre anti-Mormon cult. Don't you even bother to look this stuff up before posting it verbatim from these other sites?

      Just like Trump, who didn't bother to google Frederick Douglass before commending him on his good work and increasing visibility in the civil rights movement! That was Bushesque, but unlike Bush, Trump is an actual bigot and perhaps intends these slights of (1) the meaning of the Holocaust, (2) MLK, (3) Black History month, and the year has just begun.

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    2. If I had meant that Romney was literally called the "spawn of Satan", that description would have been in quotation marks. I only meant that he was called a very bad person. Sorry for the confusion.

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    3. So, as long as Democrats criticized Romney, your argument is correct? Not quite. According to your proposed theory, Romney was demonized worse than Bush and made Bush look good in comparison. That didn't happen.

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    4. "I guarantee that no one will consider Trump sane and reasonable at any time in the future. Not even Republicans, is my bet."

      That is a sign of the lack of self awareness in Trump Derangement Syndrome. You can't conceive of anyone considering reasonable a man who has been in the public eye for decades, succeeding in dealing with people.

      McCain had Alzheimers and Bush was a sociopath. Ho hum.

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    5. McCain doesn't have Alzheimers. I think perhaps you do. Reagan had Alzheimer's, as confirmed by Nancy Reagan and his physicians. Trump is the sociopath.

      We seem to have at least 1 new troll since the inauguration, perhaps several. Why does Somerby merit this when he just spends days on end splitting hairs about what makes a lie a lie. You aren't even trying to be provocative. Just wasting time and space here.

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    6. I have noticed that in campaigns. Romney, at least in the blogosphere was heavily demonized. I thought that was way over the top. Not that he would have been a good President, or is even an exceptionally good person, but probably also NOT the "worst person in the world".

      Also during this campaign when people talked about how awful Trump is, I sorta wondered, and asked them - do you think Cruz is any better? Or Christie? Or Giuliani? Or Jeb?

      No matter who won the nomination that person was very likely to be cast as a racist and a misogynist and a homophobe, or some other form of a terrible, horrible, awful, no good very bad person who should be shipped to Australia. In some ways, perhaps, Trump made this easy - his speech about Mexicans and "grab them by ..." come to mind.

      Enough of the voters however in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania were not impressed enough by these smears to defeat him.

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    7. There are the adjectives, and then there is the evidence. None of those previous candidates had video of the candidate confessing to sexual assault (bragging about it). Objectively, Trump had no experience and many dubious problems in his business dealings. Pictures of him engaging socially with organized crime bosses, his bankruptcies and lawsuits, etc. You didn't have to depend on those adjectives used during campaigns to realize that Trump was not a good candidate.

      I have no idea why voters anywhere dismissed this evidence of Trump's deficiencies. It another one of the many things I will never understand in life.

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    8. “I’m a Leninist,” Steve Bannon told a writer for The Daily Beast, in late 2013. “Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal, too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”

      That is the guy, white nationalist, alt-right, conspiracy nut case that the Bastard President elevated to a principal seat on the NSC.

      Sure, he's not fucking nuts.

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    9. 4:33 the polls such that they are showed a large number of Trump voters didn't think he was a good candidate per se. To help you understand voting the lesser of two evils, consider all the Democrats who called their Senators and begged them not to remove an impeached president who had conducted himself in a way that compromised him enough to lie to the nation on video. Some of us will never understand the ability to dismiss this because those actions proved him compromisable and unfit. That took place in office and was lied about, not on a bus between two men neither of which expected to contend for the presidency. They felt free to talk this way because even the younger had enough experience with real life to know that it's what men do when women aren't listening. Describing it as a confession to sexual assault wouldn't fly even if the word "let" wasn't part of the remarks. The lack of political and government experience is a more serious critique but you should be able to understand a voter thinking about that as a positive. There are ample additional flaws that were dismissed but when the alternative is considered not hard to understand.

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    10. It's a big myth that voters, collectively, are smart.

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    11. 5:27 the election showed that Trump won because voters did not go out and vote (79K in three states, specifically) in the most razor thin of margins. The polls now show Trump is the least popular president in history at this point in his term, a point in which new presidents usually enjoy inflated popularity. Bill Clinton was not compromised or made unfit by his ten blowjobs at the mouth of an ambitious Lorelei. Indeed Clinton is one of the most popular and respected presidents. When Trump boasted about his vile behavior on the bus he had in fact already been a presidential candidate, was considering running, and was also married at the time. Marriage means nothing to Trump as indicated by his comments on the bus - he tried to "fuck" a married woman - and by his rape of his ex wife. Trump is apparently troubled by sexual issues, indeed one of his good friends is Jeffery Epstein, a convicted sex offender and host of sex parties that catered young girls to rich men and about whom Trump said "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." Trump voters are no more bothered by his lack of experience than by his sexual deviancy, they do not care about democracy or even government, they are the most ironic of self serving types as Trump will bring most of them misery in the end. Looks like a positive outcome of Trump may be that people are energized to counter him and finally vote in elections.

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  7. As someone old enough to have engaged in the civil rights movements of the 60's and 70's, I notice the black and women activists now are angrier and more divisive now, after those movements had largely achieved what they set out to do.

    There is a disconnect between the emotion of the current activists and reality and it's curious. Something else is at work that has made these people maladjusted to a reality that includes different viewpoints and they find protesting an opportunity to let out emotions. They cling to and protect lies around their declared causes to support the emotion they want to express.

    I'm convinced those emotions come from something other than a fight for rights. They are more intense than when those rights were not even secured. Some people say this behavior is inevitable in a person who has had too much indulgence and deference and some people say the result of broken homes and abandonment. Either way the extreme reactions we see to Trump, who a rational person wouldn't see as terribly radical or dangerous, are evidence of a form of serious mental illness and a mind unequipped to deal with not getting one's way or a reality that doesn't resemble the one in their imagination that fuels the rage.

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    1. "The Nyborgs are insane. They just like protesting."

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    2. There was more anger and violence in the 60s than now. That undermines your theory.

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    3. The enraged reaction is explained by the feeling of the rug getting pulled out when a victory appeared inevitable. Some of us got a taste of that entitlement when we were called racist or sexist for voting for Bernie and arguably had the nomination stolen from us.

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    4. ...arguably had the nomination stolen from us.

      In your dreams. She easily kicked his ass. He was essentially out of it by March, but hung around till the convention damaging her every step of the way.

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    5. Nothing you say makes any sense or has any relation to truth. Tensions were much higher in the 60's, much more violent times. Trump is seen by most rational people as dangerous, his policies are damaging to all but the few people in his cabal. Trump is a clown. You are easily convinced by a con, but honestly nobody cares what your views are. Trump is in fact the least popular president in history at this point in his term.

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    6. Anon 2:16 is right. Women are scared. They are scared at what a madman like Trump might do. They are scared at what the big boys will do with their toys. There is no semblance of security anymore. Trump is unpredictable and has made the future unpredictable.

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    7. Trump won white women.

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  8. A major population of Americans thinks Trump's EO was incompletely considered and disastrously rolled out, but that Gorsuch should have a hearing and confirmation. You wouldn't know that by how these subjects are covered by the media.

    We have always had the gadflies and bloggers at the ideological polar extremes but when the major media join them as happened today with the New York Times referring to a "stolen seat," it's a dangerous development. The country is being torn apart and the hell of it is there have been no major shifts or developments to warrant that at this point in history.

    The extremist staffers at the New York Times are calling for unprecedented, scorched earth behavior on the part of government institutions. This is after reporting months earlier that what they are using to justify the behavior is business as usual and was promoted as pragmatic and "essential" by Joe Biden.

    "But in a speech on the Senate floor in June 1992, Mr. Biden, then the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said there should be a different standard for a Supreme Court vacancy “that would occur in the full throes of an election year.” The president should follow the example of “a majority of his predecessors” and delay naming a replacement, Mr. Biden said. If he goes forward before then, the Senate should wait to consider the nomination.

    “Some will criticize such a decision and say that it was nothing more than an attempt to save a seat on the court in hopes that a Democrat will be permitted to fill it, but that would not be our intention,” Mr. Biden said at the time. “It would be our pragmatic conclusion that once the political season is underway, and it is, action on a Supreme Court nomination must be put off until after the election campaign is over.

    “That is what is fair to the nominee and essential to the process. Otherwise, it seems to me,” he added, “we will be in deep trouble as an institution.”

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    1. Trump has already filed to begin his reelection campaign. That makes an "election year" four years long now. When Merrick Garland was nominated, it was a full year from the beginning of the next presidential term. It was only the "throes of an election year" because elections now go on for several years instead of the 3-6 months they used to take. They should have considered Merrick Garland.

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    2. anon 3:06, you are taking Biden's speech out of context. At the time he gave it, it was later in the election cycle, there were no Supreme Court openings or prospective openings, and Biden said nominations should be delayed until after the election, not until after a new president was sworn in. McConnell and the GOP were completely cynical, and stonewalling Obama and Merrick was sickeningly below the belt. It's all getting ugly - as could certainly have been expected after witnessing the Trump campaign.

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  9. Bob is apparently setting up a "slam dunk" Tenet-style case of Democratics losing arguments because they called Trump a liar.

    Maybe so, but perhaps he is embellishing a bit.

    Here is Kayleigh defending against accusations of Trump lying, and doing a poor job and indeed losing the argument:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE0gpLns6zQ

    Here is Kayleigh adopting a much demurred tone from previous panels she has been cast on, she defends debunked studies quite poorly and her whining about lying is largely ignored:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJrMcKeZAM

    Gallup has Trump at 43% approval and 51% disapproval. Trump is losing the argument.

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  10. It might not be mental illness but a strategic loser. Loud visible fights over an inevitable means the winner will enjoy a more significant boost when they prevail and the losers will have to persist under an aura of loser.

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    1. I think this troll does not speak English as a native language.

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    2. I'm sorry, is that a problem here?

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  11. My life is devastated! I’m going through hell right now or from the past one month.One month ago,i broke up with my bf.We both were completely in love.But i started having some issues with myself.My mood swings were a lot to handle for him an that point i just felt the need to break up and so i did.And i hurt him to the core which i never wanted to.He kept on begging me but i didn’t hear.Later on he started avoiding me and kind of did everything as you said in your video.it felt bad.I always loved him but i had to break up.I regret breaking up so much.But after that he said no to me.He said he’ll never come back as he cannot put faith in me.I have tried my level best but he is adamant that he cannot trust me.Even though after i realised what i did.I changed myself completely.I dealt with my mood swings and now i don’t get any.He cannot trust me.what should i do?I love himand he does too but he says he don’t have that much courage to come back. one day in my office going through the internet i saw a post of a lady giving testimony on how she got her husband back,i also come across a blog site on how to reunite and get your ex back with a love spell it was really amazing to see this so i copy his email id on http://happyspelltemple.webs.com/ i explain my situation to him and gave him all the details he requested from me, he give me 3 days assurance that my boyfriend will come back after the spell i was so overwal to hear that so i just keep calm and follow up his order coz i really love my boyfriend and want him back. on the third day after the spell as he promise me, my ex call me also show up in my office begging me to forgive him and accept him back with out no delay, i lift him up with a kiss and was so very happy to have him back all my happiness was from Dr happy he is indeed a true man a father and a god sent. plz contact Dr happy on his email id direct at happylovespell2@gmail.com or call his mobile number on +2348133873774

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  12. Hello, i am Jessica Wayne from TX, USA. Life without my husband was a real mess for me and my children I am so happy to get my Ex back through the help of Dr Noble the spell caster . My greatest surprise was that 48 hours after the Doctor prepared the spell for me, my husband who has abandoned me for 4 years suddenly called me unexpectedly and am so happy that we have come to become one again through the help of Dr Noble and am so happy to be with my husband once again. Dr Noble is a very wonderful spell caster, you can contact him if you need his assistant because i know he can also help you. contact him through his email: templeofjoyandprosperity@gmail.com +2349039520524 immediately

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  13. Real And Urgent Spell Caster Reviews To Solve Your Relationship Problem Dr Goodluck..
    My mind, for some reason, wont let go of my memory's of My husband after i found out my Husband of 9years had been living a double life and we separated months ago because of him cheating I was totally frustrated and did not know how to bring him back home because i love him so much and have tried all my possible best all to no avail, as i was browsing on the internet i came across a post on YouTube about Dr Goodluck who help people with their relationship and marriage problem by the powers of love spells, at first I doubted if such thing ever exists but decided to give it a try, when I contacted him i told him everything and he told me that everything will be fine that my husband is going to come back to me, And he told me all i will need to provide him with and i did and he told me that he is going to cast a returning spell so that my husband will come back, he helped me cast a spell and guarantee me that my husband will come back to me and within 17hours, to my greatest surprise, my husband came back to me and started apologizing, now he has stopped going out with women and he is with me for good and for real. if you have any problem contact Dr Goodluck he is real and always ready to solve your problem, email him on goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com and you can also whatapp him or call with his mobile +2349059610309 and i promise you that he is going to help you with any problem OKay...

    +2349059610309
    goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com
    http://goodluck05spellcaster.yolasite.com

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  14. My ex and I were together for 5 years. We lived together and were engaged. We went on a trip with friends and his family and had a nasty fight and broke up. We both moved out of our home and with our parents. We decided to go no contact for a month and 2 weeks in he started dating a girl and took her on a trip to California ( where we’ve gone the last 2 years on my bday) on my birthday weekend! After battling it out thru emails and a few meetings we finally came to see each other all of last week, i love him so much and i was so desperate to have him back coz i new that girl was not the right person for him so i have to save my relationship and reunite with me ex again so i try all i could to bring him back but all to avail i have be in contact with so many spell caster who only too my money and still nothing good work out of it, i ws so confuse and devastated one day trying to search on facebook, i come across a wonderful testimony of a lady on how a spell caster who she contacted also for love spell help her and bring her husband back to her with-in less day 2 days after the spell i was so fill with joy coz this lady meant my day and i regain my hope back so i directly and desperately email http://happyspelltemple.webs.com/ coz i love my ex so much and i want him back all to my self so with-in 5 min, Dr happy email me back with hope and told me that i have found solution in him that i should worried no more so i did all he ask of me and he gave me assured and guarantee that my ex will come back so i believed and was so gifted all to my surprise after the spell my ex call, come to my working beg and apology for his mistake,and he said sorry for the nasty break up that he was inconsiderate of my feelings nt in tend to hurt me. i can testify with the power love spell of Dr happy me and my ex are happily married now thank you Dr happy i will for ever be grateful to you and keep sharing your testimony if you need help or love spell fine it difficult to get back with your ex, email happylovespell2@gmail.com or call his mobile number on +2348133873774

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  15. Hello Every One Out Here
    I'm from New Jersey USA. Getting back your husband after a divorce, break up. My husband and I have been through every top reason for divorce; financial struggles, bankruptcy, stressful jobs, becoming parents when we weren't ready (neither one of us would give our kids back just the amount of stress is overwhelming) we fought ALL the time over anything and everything. I threatened divorce all the time. One day after a fight I said I was done and filling. He told me he wasn't in love with me any more. After a day or two of cooling off I realized that divorce is not what I wanted. No, our marriage was not healthy but we had so much going against us an neither one of us were trying. I begged for him to forgive me and that I didn't mean it. He told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me any more. Those words hurt and I believed him. After a month or two he also backed out of the divorce and didn't want to leave me. We also saw THREE different couples counsellors who did not help us at all. (Maybe just bad luck) we still have our moments but not as bad as before. We BOTH read a book called "Love and Respect" i read a great testimony of him that he help many to fight against their divorce marriage and broken relationship so i email him straight ahead at solutionoflovespelltemple@hotmail.com and explain the fight between me and my husband, so he gave me assurance and guarantee that my husband will come back again and forgive me just 2 days after the spell. so that was how Dr. Ogbefi help me out on my divorce problem with my husband he is really good and real man of his words plz if you need any help like my, advise goes to Dr. Ogbefi at solutionoflovespelltemple@hotmail.com, call or And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. Ogbefi

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  16. My name is Doris melody am from USA, After 15 years relationship with my Husband, he changed suddenly and stopped contacting me regularly, he would come up with excuses of not seeing me all the time. He stopped answering my calls and my sms and he stopped seeing me regularly. I then started catching him with different girls several times but every time he would say that he love me and that he needed some time to think about our relationship.But cannot stop thinking about him so i decided to go online and i saw so many good talk about this spell caster and i contact him and explain my problems to him.He cast a love spell for me which i use and after 2 day, my Husband came back to me and started contacting me regularly and we moved in together after a few months and he was more open to me than before and he started spending more time with me than his friends. We eventually got married and we now have been married happily for 1 years with. Ever since Dr.Aluebor helped me, my partner is very stable, faithful and closer to me than before.You can also contact this spell caster and get your relationship and any kind of problem okay his email<Alueborhomeofsolution@gmail.com
    Alueborhomeofsolution@gmail.com

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  17. Why I am writing this testimony is because I made a promise that whosoever that helps me out of my relationship predicament deserves to be known even more by the world. I am 37 years of age, my husband had a very powerful love spell on him that a female he knows put on him and I wanted it removed as this caused serious problems in our marriage and he left me for her. It seemed nothing on earth can bring our paths together forever, I felt really bad because I love him so dearly. I had sleepless nights because I missed my hubby’s touch and care. I seldom visit this webpage but anytime I do, I see two or more positive reviews about a man named dregbo and his mysterious and miraculous works that saves relationships and marriages, this got me curious. Also, I normally see other several reviews, although I learn't that there are lots of scammers out there but I contacted egbo because I was convinced by a testifier I contacted, that dregbo spell is the big deal. I gave him a chance out of my doubting spirit but to my greatest surprise my husband called me 2 days after dregbo did his prayer and cast out the spell on him in my hubby’s behalf, now he is so sorry for all the pains he has made me pass through, he wanted to be back home. Presently our love is more than that of Romeo and Juliet, he takes too good care of me now, 100% than before. I know there are others out there, I say if you find dregbosolutioncenter@gmail.com then your problem is as well solved. Lydia Ryan W. from California. you can thank me also through my emaill address also after you give try of egbo.lydia092015@yahoo.com. egbo also told me that he can help with any of the following problem below.
    (1) you want your ex back.
    (2) You always have nightmares.
    (3) To be promoted in your office
    (4) Do you want a child.
    (5) Do you want to be rich.
    (6) want to keep your husband / wife to be only yours forever.
    (7) are you in need of financial assistance.
    8) Do you want to be in control of you marriage
    9) Will you be attracted to people
    10) The absence of children
    11) have a husband / WIFE
    12) cure for any disease.
    Contact baba today and you'll be glad you did. E-mail: dregbosolutioncenter@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hello, I am Theresa Williams After being in relationship with Anderson for years, he broke up with me, I did everything possible to bring him back but all was in vain, I wanted him back so much because of the love I have for him, I begged him with everything, I made promises but he refused. I explained my problem to my friend and she suggested that I should rather contact a spell caster that could help me cast a spell to bring him back but I am the type that never believed in spell, I had no choice than to try it, I mailed the spell caster, and he told me there was no problem that everything will be okay before three days, that my ex will return to me before three days, he cast the spell and surprisingly in the second day, it was around 4 pm. My ex called me, I was so surprised, I answered the call and all he said was that he was so sorry for everything that happened that he wanted me to return to him, that he loves me so much. I was so happy and went to him that was how we started living together happily again. Since then, I have made promise that anybody I know that have a relationship problem, I would be of help to such person by referring him or her to the only real and powerful spell caster who helped me with my own problem. email: drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com you can email him if you need his assistance in your relationship or any other Case.

    1) Love Spells
    2) Lost Love Spells
    3) Divorce Spells
    4) Marriage Spells
    5) Binding Spell.
    6) Breakup Spells
    7) Banish a past Lover
    8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
    9) want to satisfy your lover
    Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
    through drogunduspellcaster@gmail.com

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  19. How I Got My Ex Husband Back..Am so excited share my testimony of a real spell caster who brought my husband back to me. My husband and I have been married for about 5 yrs now. We were happily married with two kids, a boy and a girl. 3 months ago, I started to notice some strange behavior from him and a few weeks later I found out that my husband is seeing someone else. He started coming home late from work, he hardly care about me or the kids anymore, Sometimes he goes out and doesn't even come back home for about 2-3 days. I did all I could to rectify this problem but all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. One faithful day As I was browsing through the internet, I came across a testimony that suggested that Dr osasuyi can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and told him my problems and he told me what to do and i did it and he did a spell for me. 48 hours later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr osasuyi Powerful Love Spell that really works. If you have any problem contact him and i guarantee you that he will help you. He will not disappoint you. Email him at: (drosasuyi@gmail.com).OR you can rich him on his phone number +2347053161101.My Name are Helen Albert,i am from united state.



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  20. Hello Every One Out Here
    I'm from New Jersey USA. Getting back your husband after a divorce, break up. My husband and I have been through every top reason for divorce; financial struggles, bankruptcy, stressful jobs, becoming parents when we weren't ready (neither one of us would give our kids back just the amount of stress is overwhelming) we fought ALL the time over anything and everything. I threatened divorce all the time. One day after a fight I said I was done and filling. He told me he wasn't in love with me any more. After a day or two of cooling off I realized that divorce is not what I wanted. No, our marriage was not healthy but we had so much going against us an neither one of us were trying. I begged for him to forgive me and that I didn't mean it. He told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me any more. Those words hurt and I believed him. After a month or two he also backed out of the divorce and didn't want to leave me. We also saw THREE different couples counsellors who did not help us at all. (Maybe just bad luck) we still have our moments but not as bad as before. We BOTH read a book called "Love and Respect" i read a great testimony of him that he help many to fight against their divorce marriage and broken relationship so i email him straight ahead at solutionoflovespelltemple@hotmail.com and explain the fight between me and my husband, so he gave me assurance and guarantee that my husband will come back again and forgive me just 2 days after the spell. so that was how Dr. Ogbefi help me out on my divorce problem with my husband he is really good and real man of his words plz if you need any help like my, advise goes to Dr. Ogbefi at solutionoflovespelltemple@hotmail.com, call or And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. Ogbefi

    ReplyDelete
  21. My mouth is full of testimonies, Am Mrs Susan. my husband left home for two years to south Africa for a tourist, where he meant this Lady and he was bewitch by the girl my husband refuse to come back home again, i cry day and night looking for who to help me, i read a news paper about a powerful spell caster called DR Ekpiku and i contacted the spell caster to help me get my lover back to me and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods we fight for me.. he told me by mid-night when all the spirit is at rest he will cast a spell to reunite my lover back to me. and he did in less than 3 days my husband came back to me and started crying that i should forgive him, i,m so happy for what this spell caster did for me and my husband..email: Ekpikuspelltemple@live.com
    (1)If you want your ex back.
    (2) if you always have bad dreams.
    (3)if You want to be promoted in your office.or if you have a place to work and you need help
    (5)If you want a child.
    (6)[You want to be rich.

    ReplyDelete