Quickly, our tribe fought back: In yesterday's report, we described two recent events in which a fleeing man was shot and killed by a law enforcement officer.
One event, in Atlanta, quickly became world famous. The other event, in San Diego, was almost completely ignored.
And indeed, when Catherine Herridge posed a recent question to Donald J. Trump, she seemed to voice concern about one of these shooting deaths, but not about the other.
Two men had been shot and killed. Could it be that only one of these people mattered? We're sure that isn't what Herridge thinks, but this is what she said:
HERRIDGE (7/14/20): Let's talk about George Floyd. You said George Floyd's death was a terrible thing.That's what Herridge said. Working from the current numbers at the Washington Post's Fatal Force site, she seemed to be concerned about the 1,304 African-Americans who have been shot and killed by police since the start of 2015, as is completely appropriate.
TRUMP: Terrible.
HERRIDGE: Why are African-Americans still dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country?
She didn't seem to be concerned about the 3,630 people of other "races" and ethnicities who have been shot and killed by police during that period. As of today, that includes 2500 "white" people, 910 Hispanics and 220 people of other ethnicities/races.
All those people were shot and killed. All those people died.
Based on her question, Herridge didn't seem to be concerned about all those other people who died. We're sure that isn't her real point of view, but we're going by what she said.
In fairness, the general impulse Herridge displayed has been quite widespread in recent months, and in recent years, as a certain Storyline has seized control of the upper-end press corps.
As this Storyline has advanced, many journalists, perhaps including Herridge, have possibly failed to rely on the basic journalistic skills which help produce clear discourse.
Consider the March 13 shooting death of 25-year-old Breonna Taylor, a completely innocent person who lost her life during a botched "no-knock" police raid.
In the past few months, the shooting death of this innocent person has gained nationwide attention, as is completely appropriate. But because of the way the event is being reported and discussed, certain misperceptions may perhaps arise.
On June 16, to cite one example, John Yang interviewed Andrea Ritchie, a Barnard College "researcher-in-residence," for the PBS NewsHour. Absent further attempts at explanation, this peculiar exchange occurred:
YANG (6/16/20): Louisville has banned—in reaction to this, banned no-knock warrants. They called it Breonna's Law. How effective do you think that will be?For the fuller exchange, see our earlier report. No further context or explanation was offered—and presentations of this type can create misperceptions.
RITCHIE: I think it's good that we're stepping back to look at how those police officers came to be at her door and looking to interrupt one of the mechanisms that has resulted in her death and also in the death of—I can name five other black women killed by no-knock warrants, Tarika Wilson, Kathryn Johnston, Alberta Spruill, Aiyana Stanley-Jones.
In this instance, while Ritchie was able to name those five names, many other names went unmentioned. To cite one example, the so-called Pecan Park raid wasn't cited or discussed.
What in the world was the Pecan Park raid? The leading authority on that event reports what happened as shown:
On January 28, 2019, in the Pecan Park area in the East End district of Houston, Houston Police Department (HPD) officers initiated a no-knock raid on a house, killing the two homeowners, a married husband and wife: Dennis Wayne Tuttle and Rhogena Ann Nicholas. They were ages 59 and 58, respectively. Five HPD officers sustained injuries.This incident was remarkably similar to the later incident in which Taylor, a wholly innocent person, lost her life.
St. John Barned-Smith and Keri Blakinger of the Houston Chronicle described the event as "one of the worst [scandals] to hit HPD in years."
[...]
The officers expected to find illegal drugs at the house, but the informant stated to have been the source of the complaint could not be found, and no drugs were present. Later information showed that one of the officers had lied so he could get a warrant for the no-knock raid. 54-year old Gerald Goines, named in court documents related to the case, was accused of making false statements on the affidavit.
After the officers entered the home they shot a dog owned by the couple. According to the HPD's version, Tuttle was armed and engaged the officers, while Nicholas was unarmed and apparently shot when reaching for a wounded officer's shotgun.
[...]
Tuttle sustained up to nine bullet wounds. His head and neck; his chest; his left-side shoulder, forearm, hand, thigh, and buttock; and his right wrist were affected by gunshots. Other injuries include "minor blunt force" ones hitting his left ear, extremity wounds, bullet grazing on the right forearm, neck lacerations possibly caused by a necklace, and upper left-side abdomen abrasions.
Nicholas sustained two bullet wounds, with other injuries tentatively attributed to bullet fragments. Nicholas had been hit in the thigh and chest, and fragments may have affected the right-side leg and thigh.
In that later incident, Taylor's boyfriend fired on police when they burst into Taylor's apartment in the middle of the night. The exchange of gunfire ended with Taylor, an innocent person, dead.
In last year's incident in Houston, two such people died.
Last year's disastrously bungled "no-knock" raid received wide coverage in Houston, but little attention anywhere else. By way of contrast, this year's disastrously bungled "no-knock" raid is being discussed nationwide, as is completely appropriate.
Along the way, people like Ritchie and Yang, along with NewsHour anchor Judy Woodruff, may be creating a type of false impression in many people's minds. If you scrunch your eyes a certain way, the journalists may almost seem to be in thrall to prevailing Storyline.
In the pursuit of Storyline, they almost seem to be walking away from the use of their basic journalistic skills.
Today, we're going to show you what Donald Trump said in response to Herridge's somewhat peculiar question. As he commonly does, he scolded Herridge for having asked the question at all. But in one of history's rarest events, the persistently muddled commander-in-chief actually made a perfectly accurate statement:
HERRIDGE (7/14/20): Let's talk about George Floyd. You said George Floyd's death was a terrible thing.Trump told Herridge that she had asked a "terrible" question. For ourselves, we'd say that she asked a rather peculiar question, one that could easily lead to certain misperceptions.
TRUMP: Terrible.
HERRIDGE: Why are African-Americans still dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country?
TRUMP: And so are white people. So are white people. What a terrible question to ask. So are white people. More white people, by the way. More white people.
(If we were Herridge's supervisor, we would definitely be concerned with the question she asked. We'd be concerned that she was working from pure Storyline, in a way which might tend to obscure certain larger facts.)
That said, credit where due! In one of history's rarest events, Donald J. Trump responded to Herridge by making an accurate statement!
The commander said that even more white people are "still dying at the hands of law enforcement." Though he didn't try to quantify further, he made a perfectly accurate statement! How often do you see that?
Having said that, we'll add this:
Trump had made an accurate statement, but he hadn't made every accurate statement. On that perfectly reasonable basis, our fiery liberal/progressive/woke tribe began fighting back, sometimes in ways which were perhaps overwrought and misleading.
Our sachems almost seemed to be angry to hear Trump make an accurate statement! Tomorrow, we'll look at what one analyst said, and we'll continue to ask a basic question:
What should upper-end journalists do? What should they do to avoid the misperceptions which may emerge from devotion to pure Storyline?
Tomorrow: Additional accurate statements
From Political Wire by Taegan Goddard:
ReplyDelete"Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler (D) was tear gassed by the U.S. government late Wednesday as he stood at a fence guarding a federal courthouse during another night of protest against the presence of federal agents sent by President Trump to quell unrest in the city, the AP reports.
Wheeler “appeared slightly dazed and coughed as he put on a pair of goggles someone handed him and drank water. He didn’t leave his spot at the front, however, and continued to take gas.”
Lord this is funny.
Delete"Lord this is funny."
DeleteFor conservatives, it is all about "owning" the libs.
Trump thinks that if he gives that to his base, they will vote for him, even if he is also putting their lives at risk, destroying the economy, handing over the country to Russia, and taking away all freedoms except the one about owning guns (unless you're a protester in Portland, in which case you cannot walk down a street without being kidnapped).
But as long as he teargasses liberal mayors, his brain-dead supporters will vote for him, unless their local post office is too messed up to deliver their absentee ballots, or they are sick that week in Nov.
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.........
"The officers expected to find illegal drugs at the house, but the informant stated to have been the source of the complaint could not be found, and no drugs were present. Later information showed that one of the officers had lied so he could get a warrant for the no-knock raid. 54-year old Gerald Goines, named in court documents related to the case, was accused of making false statements on the affidavit."
ReplyDeleteThis is the kind of thing that gets African Americans shot. But more than that, every encounter with police has the potential to become a fatality these days, for white and black people, but I suspect that it is easier to get such false warrants when the target is black than when white.
Further, the phenomenon of swatting, where someone calls and reports a hostage situation at someone's house (often a celebrity but also political targets), has resulted in injury and death to the victims because of excessive force and use of violence by police.
This does need to be addressed, but the larger issue of racism won't be solved by focusing on white people are targets, only as perpetrators of racist acts. White people are sometimes resistant to that focus, as Somerby and Trump have both demonstrated with their responses to Herridge's question. The question isn't whether Trump's answer was accurate or not, but whether Trump understood that the question was about racism, as Somerby did. Somerby then complains that a focus on racism is storyline, as opposed to an important social issue. I am having a hard time not seeing that as racist in itself. And, of course, Somerby's apparent lack of concern about racism shows that he is not much of a liberal. No one expects Trump to be liberal, but Somerby keeps claiming to be one. I find that claim to be inaccurate.
1,200 deaths yesterday in the US.
ReplyDelete1 in Germany.
We should praise Trump.
The 1,200 deaths are the fault of Democrats.
DeleteI could be wrong, but I don't believe Trump is a Democrat this year.
DeleteThink about what Debbie Wasserman Trump, Trump's niece, said on the campaign trail:
Delete"A teacher of pronunciation will more offend people by speaking without the aspirate, of a "uman being,", despite of the laws of grammar, than if he, a "human being," hate a "human being" in spite of my uncle. As if any enemy could be more hurtful than the hatred with which he is incensed against him, or could wound more deeply him whom he persecutes than he wounds his own soul by his enmity."
So, you're saying incoherence runs in the family?
DeleteNo.
DeleteAre you sure?
Delete1. No such person as Debbie Wasserman Trump.
Delete2. A line from a text about teaching bilingual speakers pronunciation intermixed with a line lifted from the Confessions of St. Augustine.
3. Attributed to Trump's niece as if she were writing gibberish about Trump in her book.
Better trolling please.
That seems like sublime trolling to me.
DeleteDon't encourage him. It is still trolling.
Delete"he made a perfectly accurate statement"
ReplyDeleteTrump's statement wasn't accurate in the sense that black and white people die at the hands of the police for different reasons.
White people are killed by police when they are homeless or mentally ill or have a disability that interferes with communication (are deaf or autistic). Black people are killed by police when police become fearful about a perceived lack of cooperation, or as a result of their fear mistake a small object for a weapon (e.g. a cell phone or toy for a gun or knife). In inordinate number of police shoot a fleeing suspect in the back, something that is illegal in CA, if not in other places, and was why that Bils case made the news.
It is those different reasons for being stopped, harshly treated, mistreated or even killed, that makes the black experience qualitatively different than what white people experience (unless they too are in a despised category, such as homeless).
I cannot understand why Somerby has lately become so narrowly focused on numbers that he is entirely missing the big picture in both the covid situation and in police reform. It is as if he has a cognitive deficit himself in which only numbers matter, and they MUST be treated in a particular way, or it is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is a kind of adult autism or OCD, in my opinion. Most people avoid dealing with numbers but Somerby is fixated on them, as if getting the numbers right will make the virus disappear or solve racial tensions.
That's one way to look at it. Another way is that reasoned discourse based on hard evidence requires accuracy in both the numbers and in he analysis of those numbers. If the numbers are off, the analysis is suspect. Even when the numbers are accurate, the analysis can be skewed. In order to answer Somerby's question about what do about "media story line," in other words bending the evidence to support a particular story, we need to make sure we have our facts straight. Failing that, we can hardly expect to make progress. I don't see how all the above s incompatible with addressing racism. Indeed, fudging numbers, weighing the scales, even if it pleases true believers, inevitably undermines the cause of addressing racism. Racism is real -- poor policing is real -- and so is the distorting effect of propaganda, and that goes for both sides.
Delete11:19
DeleteWhat is the liberal propaganda supposed to be? What is the propaganda from the other side, and has Somerby ever discussed it?
Please state concisely, and with specific examples from Somerby, what Somerby means by “storyline.”
Otherwise, any discussion here is futile.
Here's a white person murdered by police when police become fearful about a perceived lack of cooperation, or as a result of their fear mistake a small object for a weapon (e.g. a cell phone or toy for a gun or knife):
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&bpctr=1595520978
The killing of Shaver was just as bad and insane as the killing of Floyd. And it wasn't racism. There are many other examples. And in the case of Michael Brown and Rayshard Brooks, it wasn't a perceived lack of cooperation, it was a lack of cooperation (putting it mildly).
DeleteSo the plot thickens.
How did you happen to be present for both the Brown and Brooks killings?
DeleteNo. I live in Belgium.
DeleteAre you claiming there was not a lack of cooperation of the part of Brooks and Brown?
DeleteI am saying that I wasn't there and neither was @12:11, by his own admission, so how does he know whether there was a lack of cooperation or a perceived lack of cooperation, or what?
DeleteIt used to be a joke that when someone was roughed up by police, that they were "resisting arrest" or "interfering with an officer in the performance of his duty". Not so much of a joke when someone is African American and they are killed as a result of such police excesses.
If you aren't there, you don't know what really happened.
How do you know the earth is round? Have to seen it from outer space?
DeleteHave you read the Justice Department report on Brown?
Regardless, the original claim it is only black people that are killed by police when police become fearful about a perceived lack of cooperation, etc. is false.
DeleteNo one has ever made that claim, that ONLY black people are killed by police when police become fearful about a perceived lack of cooperation. However, psychologists have demonstrated that white people tend to equate being black with violence and are more likely to feel fearful even under innocent circumstances. There is a classic study in which guns and tools were shown to subjects and they were asked to classify the objects as either a gun or a tool. One group was first shown white faces then did the task. The other group was first shown black faces then did the task. The group shown black faces first wrongly classified the tools as guns with significantly higher frequency. This same kind of bias likely operates when a cop faces a black suspect and leads to mistaken shootings with greater frequency.
DeleteSomerby's claim that because white people are also shot, there can be no racial bias against black people, is ridiculous. His claim that the press never mentions the white shootings is flatly wrong.
I didn't see where Somerby claimed there can be no racial bias against black people because white people are also shot. Where was that?
Delete"white people tend to equate being black with violence and are more likely to feel fearful even under innocent circumstances."
DeleteI'm white. That is true of me. (the only time I have been robbed at gunpoint and had a gun put to my head it was by three black men.)
@2:13 Did you miss his entire essay about how the press never mentions that white people get shot by police too? Somerby claimed that the fact that white people get shot too is an "accurate" response to a question about black killings at the hands of police. In other words, he endorsed (by calling "accurate") Trump's response to that question about bias against blacks. I have called Trump's answer non-responsive but Somerby thinks it has merit. That answer to such a question means that the existence of white shootings answers and moots the question of black shootings.
DeleteThat's a really shitty, baseless accusation. Shame on you.
Delete@2:38
DeleteIt is exactly that.
Like discussions of most things, the discussion about whether police are more likely to kill innocent blacks, or blacks in general, or 'people of color' than they do similarly situated whites is largely simplistic. According anon 11:06, 'white people' are killed by police when they are homeless, mentally ill, or disabled; while on the other hand, blacks are killed when they are "perceived" by police as not cooperating, or when police misperceive a small object, like a cell phone or toy gun, as a "weapon." I assume you mean these only as examples. There are surely many other circumstances when these events occur. I would suggest that, unfortunate as the incidents are, not that many blacks are killed by police (far more are killed by other blacks for example) - so if blacks are justified in fearing for their lives nowadays from being killed by a cop, when only a tiny percentage of their encounters lead to them being killed, why aren't cops justified in "perceiving" that some blacks are resisting arrest, when a disproportionate number of murders, and crimes in general, are committed by blacks (not that this justifies bias against all blacks, the large majority of whom don't commit violent crimes)?
DeletePeople of all races tend to kill others of the same race more often than those who are not of their race. That means whites are most often killed by whites. There are still more white murders than black ones. If you are asking why crime stats are skewed, it is because of all the things that go along with being lower SES, which black people are disproportionately because of historical factors and racism. Those lower NAEP scores translate into minimum wage jobs, which in turn create stresses due to poverty, which result in domestic violence and neighborhood violence, drug use, alcoholism, more crimes of all types, and so on. This is basic sociology. But this is also true of poor and disadvantaged white people and there are more of them than there are black people. So, when you control for all of these factors and blacks are still being treated differently by cops, then there is a demonstrable racial bias over and above these other demographic differences. Because there is no greater tendency toward crime among black people, controlling for poverty, education level, SES, etc., there is no justification for cops treating black people different than they would poor white people in a bad neighborhood who are involved with drugs or crime, etc. This idea, which you seem to be repeating, that blacks are more prone to crime, is wrong once you control for the fact that more black people live in poverty and lack education and have poor health and disabilities and so on.
DeleteIt seems to be very hard to budge the idea that black people are criminals, once it is lodged in someone's head, because every black crime in the media seems to reinforce that belief, but statistics do not support that bias. Cops are supposed to know that, not act out their biases.
Police should not be killing anyone except in self defense. Shooting someone who is sleeping in a car (or their own bed) or running away with back turned, should be prosecuted. That is what BLM is about and I cannot understand why so many folks here are not understanding this.
All lives matter?
Delete“Police should not be killing anyone except in self defense. Shooting someone who is sleeping in a car (or their own bed) or running away with back turned, should be prosecuted. That is what BLM is about and I cannot understand why so many folks here are not understanding this.”
DeleteI think everyone can just move on now since this statement so accurately paraphrases Somerby’s take on how the media’s narrative had limited discourse.
"Police should not be killing anyone except in self defense"
DeleteThe police and everyone else know that. Every police shooting, most certainly if it resulted in death, is investigated.
Shit happens, of course, and always will happen, but that certainly doesn't justify the BLM, a hate-mongering militant 'movement' with racist motto.
BLM's support for equality for black people, is bridge too far for Mao.
DeleteThe Establishment must be skimping on the paychecks, if even Mao is suffering from "economic anxiousness". LOL.
Brave defender of Somerby who shall remain Anonymous 11:19 says “Racism is real.”
ReplyDeleteIs that supposed to be Somerby’s view, or is it only 11:19’s?
Here is what Somerby said about “racism:”
“In truth, we think the term [racism] has been applied so promiscuously in recent years that it has largely ceased to have any meaning at all.
In our view, the term has become a largely meaningless tribal insult.”
http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2019/08/is-donald-j-trump-racist-race-baiter.html
Somerby was discussing a Kevin Drum post, where Drum was offering his definitions of racism and white supremacy. Somerby disagreed, but never offered his own definitions.
Somerby is saying that when liberals object to racism, it is really only a virtue-signaling tribal insult directed at conservatives.
He doesn’t conceive of the notion that liberals are merely saying “racism is bad”. He is the one who asserts that what they really mean is “only conservatives are racist.”
All of his blogging about this has to be understood in this context.
mh,
Delete"Brave Anonymous Defender" here -- I am speaking for myself when I say racism is real (as is bad policing and the abuse of facts known as propaganda). But I am not mounting the sort of broad media critique or analysis of human "tribal" tendencies that Somerby is trying to do, so I tend to read the statements you cite in that context. Is it possible for "racism," the term, to lose its meaning from misuse? It's possible, I think, especially if the discussion melts down into name-calling. But even if the epithet racism or racist ends up being misused and abused, and even when Somerby feels compelled to call that out, I seriously doubt that he believes racism doesn't exist, do you? If we can find places in TDH where he says such a thing, then I will stand corrected. You can certainly argue that the things he says lead you infer that he dismisses racism, although I would disagree.
P.S. My "not so brave" decision to remain anonymous is based on the sort of character assassination that seems to go on here, in which those who give their names are derided and insulted. Who needs it. I'm not looking at you, mh, when I say that, but others who post here, well, I think you know the sort of attacks I mean.
"I seriously doubt that he believes racism doesn't exist, do you?"
DeleteI am not mh. However, I believe that the current discussion over Trump's response to Herridge's question is being discussed by Somerby as if he didn't believe racism existed. I cannot see any way in which Somerby's essay would be different if he truly didn't believe in racism. If he does believe racism exists, I believe he wouldn't have written this essay about Trump's accurate statement, and I believe he would talk about racism differently.
In my experience, the people who object that white lives don't matter because no one mentions white shootings while discussing racism against black people, tend to be white supremacists. I wonder why Somerby would deliberately mimic the responses of such people (including Trump), if he believes in the existence of racism.
"I seriously doubt that he believes racism doesn't exist, do you?"
DeleteAnd to add to not mh’s point, I am not a mind reader. I don’t know what Somerby believes unless he states it unequivocally. How about you, 11:19, 12:49?
Delete‘“The real question you have to ask yourself is, why are whites or blacks being killed unjustifiably by police...why police are killing anyone if it is not justified?"’
Al Sharpton
‘
Somerby is talking about narrative and storyline and the zealotry that makes it suspect for anyone, let alone professional truth-seekers to utter the obvious unless they are Al Sharpton.
P.S. My "not so brave" decision to remain anonymous is based on the sort of character assassination that seems to go on here, in which those who give their names are derided and insulted. Who needs it. I'm not looking at you, mh, when I say that, but others who post here, well, I think you know the sort of attacks I mean.
DeleteThis intrigues me. Using the provided nym Anonymous is not what make you anonymous. The inability of other commenters to discern your personal information provides that cloak. You could use a google ID (or manufacture another nym if you feared that a google ID would prove insecure), and no one here would be the wiser.
I don't know whether you include me under the rubric "others who post here." You wouldn't be alone if you did. But I trust it hasn't escaped your notice that the Anonymous nym doesn't stop me from excoriating the logic of some who use that nym. Is there really some difference between someone posting an insult under one of your Anonymous comments, and someone addressing that insult to you by a nym unique to you?
And why would you care what personal insult got thrown your way by someone who doesn't know you personally?
The only thing that hiding behind Anonymous does is make it slightly harder for other commenters to follow a thread.
When another commenter here used a Google ID, you went to that person's background info and used it to mock her, calling her "professor". Corby used a nym and you started calling others who were not Corby by that name, as if it were something bad. You didn't behave well and it is no surprise that no one wants to play your little games with you.
DeleteDon't pretend I doxed Corby. She used her name as her ID, and she put her information in the link from her ID, where she identified herself as a professor. I didn't broadcast the school where she teaches or any other of her life's details that are available online. All this assuming, of course, that the commenter commenting as Corby is actually the person so named.
DeleteSince when did "professor" become a term of abuse? You're certainly correct that I mocked her argumentation as so lacking that it failed to rise to the level expected of a professor at an institution of higher learning. But then, it does.
And how do you know that others posting Anonymous comments as absurd as Corby's weren't actually Corby herself? She herself admits that she sometimes posts as Anonymous.
In any case "pulling a Corby" is a bad thing. It's a combination of mind reading, failure to consider evidence, and a disregard of basic logic. And it's Corby's stock in trade. As I've told Corby herself several times, "If you don't want to be called ridiculous, stop posting ridiculous things."
Nothing I've posted reveals anything about Corby that could affect her life outside cyberspace. So get off the fainting couch. Others here are waiting in line for it.
Don't like my behavior? Too bad. As the man says, I've had complaints about it before, but it just seems to get worse. Heed my mantra -- this is a new political age, and the time for politesse is over.
Don't wanna "play" with me? Just try to imagine how much this pains me. But before you take your ball and go home, try answering my question: why would anyone care what personal insult got thrown their way by someone who doesn't know them personally?
Appreciate the confession. This is why people won't use a 'nym here.
DeleteThat was not a "confession." Your disapproval of my comments does not make them transgressions. If you don't understand my question, that's fine, and I'm sure you'll understand my contempt at your failure. Notice that your refusal to use a nym didn't stop me from contemning you.
DeleteFrom Digby's Blog:
ReplyDelete"The urban disorder Trump saw in New York the 1970s is central to how he sees the world now. It feeds his Bronsonesque sense of self and purpose. He has introduced federal police in Portland hoping to provoke a violent response from protesters that will, in turn, justify a violent crackdown and activate “vigilante conservatism” among his base voters. Next comes New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, all cities run by “liberal Democrats.”
The important thing now is that protesters not give Trump what he so clearly wants. Continue to oppose police violence without giving his internal security forces the justification Trump wants for his proposed crackdown."
This is what liberals are worrying about these days. Somerby is worried about whether death figures are accurate and whether Trump is getting credit for saying something right about police shootings.
Lawyers Guns & Money blog, which actually engages in media criticism, has an interesting discussion of the origins and nature of "cancel culture":
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/07/the-fundamental-incoherence-of-cancel-culture
In his essay about whether Trump is a race-baiter, (http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2019/08/is-donald-j-trump-racist-race-baiter.html) Somerby says, yeah, it’s fairly obvious, but then thinks the term “racism” has been rendered meaningless. But if Trump is obviously a race-baiter, then the term “racism” can’t truly be meaningless, can it?
ReplyDeleteHe isn’t sure the 63 million Trump voters see Trump as a race-baiter, and yet he obviously is. So what does that tell you?
Somerby prefers to believe that trump is mentally ill, and hence, without beliefs of any kind, including racist ones, as if mental illness (and especially “sociopathy”) preclude someone from being racist. Contemplate that for a minute.
Think about all this in light of Mary Trump’s recent book, where she clearly states that Trump is a racist.
Apart from the fact that this post hasn’t aged well, it is incoherent.
It simultaneously acknowledges and disavows the idea that Trump is a race-baiter and questions the idea that his race-baiting has any appeal at all, even to a subset of those 63 million voters.
At the very least, one comes away thinking that “racism” may be real, but may not be a serious problem, and maybe it’s just liberal whining and bad faith after all.
mh, Somerby is saying that Trump will use whatever maneuver he thinks will work.
DeleteThat Trump doesn’t harbor a particular animus toward nonwhites in the way that David Duke does, because all people, no matter their demographics, are solely a means to an end with Trump. He will appeal to whatever works, whether it’s a race-baiting appeal or an appeal to patriotism, whatever trope he thinks will persuade you. There’s no personal feelings involved because everyone and thing is a utility to be used. He cares for no one, but Trump.
Somerby’s view of Trump makes yours look benevolent.
Scientific racism does not exist.
DeleteStereotyping does exist. Also known as 'profiling'.
All living creatures (including humyns) are constantly observing and assessing their surroundings, looking, unconsciously for the most part, for patterns that may indicate danger.
What you call "race" could be one of those patterns, depending on specifics of the environment.
You zombies call it 'racism', but in reality it's a perfectly normal biological function.
"That Trump doesn’t harbor a particular animus toward nonwhites in the way that David Duke does, because all people, no matter their demographics, are solely a means to an end with Trump. He will appeal to whatever works, whether it’s a race-baiting appeal or an appeal to patriotism, whatever trope he thinks will persuade you. There’s no personal feelings involved because everyone and thing is a utility to be used. He cares for no one, but Trump."
DeleteCecelia, this interpretation of Trump is contradicted by the info in Mary Trump's book about him. I believe she probably knows him better than you do.
So you think this my view of Trump that I’m expressing?
DeleteYes, because someone who knew him has said that he is racist, having observed him as part of her own family. That is more convincing than your opinion.
DeleteThis isn’t my opinion. I voted for Trump.
DeleteI it’s Somerby who thinks that Trump is a sociopath.
If you are saying that this is Somerby's opinion, then the same reasoning applies. Somerby doesn't know Trump as well as members of his family do -- so I believe what Mary Trump said about Trump's bigotry, not what you attribute to Somerby. If you are quoting Somerby, put some quote marks around the part that is his words. If you are paraphrasing him, say so.
DeleteIf you voted for Trump, you owe us all a huge apology, especially those of us who have lost our jobs or loved ones to covid.
So now I’m supposed to convince you that Somerby’s take on Trump is correct, when my explanation was offered up to mh as an argument that Somerby is NOT saying that Trump is less culpable fof his mindset, but as an argument that Trump is so freaking disordered that he shouldn’t be anywhere near the nuclear codes or the WH Easter Egg hunt.
DeleteYou manage to make likely-voters consider that and you’re close to winning the whole shooting match.
But where’s the fun in seeing the obvious when this only relates to Trump in that the game is to discredit Somerby because he sings off-key.
sheesh.
You don't change the minds of "likely voters" by commenting on blogs. You do it by actual campaigning. But I expect that anyone who isn't motivated entirely by self-interest is already a Democrat. The rest of the people will be convinced to vote against Trump by what is happening in their own lives. Enough people are sick or unemployed to shift the balance to Biden. People like you vote their self interest, not based on whether they think Trump is crazy or not. He was clearly crazy and an awful person in 2016 and Republicans didn't care. They won't care if he is crazy now -- they just care about whether he will do things to improve their perceived self interest.
DeleteYour comment strikes me as an example of concern trolling. We obviously don't need you to tell us how to win this upcoming election.
Anonymous 6:33pm, in the wise and wonderful mindset of telling me that all this is none my business (so shut-up, Ceil) let me return the favor by saying that Somerby is talking about the media, a guild that does have a microphone to all and sundry sorts, and he’s saying it to people who might want to make an impression on all and sundry. Who may start agitating for that.
DeleteTherefore, he certainly isn’t talking to you, huh?
Cece - are you going to vote for Trump again? Do you feel his reaction to COVID has exacerbated its impact on America?
DeleteYes, I am.
DeleteYes, he made mistakes that exacerbated things in the sense that they were mistakes.
I'm glad to see you acknowledge his gruesome fumbles and the swath death they have wrought and will be wreaking on ordinary Americans for God knows how long. That's is hard for people of all persuasions to do about a candidate they like.
DeleteI always understood where Trump supporters were coming from in terms of shaking up the system snd the corruption of Democrats but also always thought it was a mistake because of competency issues. Unfortunately, I was right. His incompetency will have really done a number on American when it is all said and done with. But maybe it will lead you to the goal of totally upending the elites. Ie. destroy the country in order to save it.
Or sumpthin’.
Delete9:11,
DeleteThat the entire Republican Party can't do basic math is just as big a problem.
“And to add to not mh’s point, I am not a mind reader. I don’t know what Somerby believes unless he states it unequivocally.”
ReplyDeleteWell, you’re acting like a mind reader.
You’ve taken Somerby’s opinion that the word racism has been thrown around so willy-nilly as to have trivialized a harmful phenomenon, as being some preposterous declaration that such a mindset no longer exists, let alone being one that must be challenged.
You can only judge what Somerby thinks by his words. His words are evidence enough of what he thinks about racism.
DeleteAnonymouse 5:28pm, but you’re not using sound judgment with such an asinine claim.
DeleteYou’re acting like a kid throwing poo because TDH criticizes some of your thinking.
Grow up.
Grown up.
TDH doesn't criticize any of my thinking because he doesn't respond to anything in the comment section.
DeleteBeing against racism isn't one of the strongly held values of conservatives, but liberals do care about it. You shouldn't come to a liberal blog and then chastise commenters here because they care about something that you do not.
Anonymouse 6:28 pm, this isn’t about how I feel about racism, it’s about the wisdom of what TDH has posted on his blog.
DeleteThe blogger has allowed everyone to comment on what he writes. He has placed no impediments on that. I am free to disagree with anyone with whom I disagree. So are you.
However, I don’t want to sound harsh. Sorry.
Our Cecelia should feel free to comment on this blog or any other blog that catches her fancy. That she's here may annoy some Anonymi. The fact that she can point out how ill-prepared some Anonymi are for a political debate should embarrass them. But Anonymi's personal discomfort with another commenter pointing out their inadequacy is not grounds to disinvite her, even were anyone but the blogger charged with such authority.
ReplyDeleteOur Cecelia has admitted voting for Trump. She has observed caged children at our border, extraordinary rendition in our cities, treason, science denial, and grift and incompetence on an extravagant scale, and she's admitted to planning to vote for Trump again.
She walks amongst us as human, right down to apologizing for her rather mild words that she fears might "sound harsh" as she hopes to see harshness inflicted on us all again.
She uses the nym Cecelia, but her name is legion.
Dimmy, please, Dimmy why you do this to me Dimmy.
DeleteWhat kind of person deliberately votes for a president they know to be impaired? This is important -- the future of our country is at stake. Yet you have admitted that you are going to vote for Trump, a man who has been shown repeatedly to be dysfunctional.
DeleteThe reason, obviously, is that he is letting his Republican cronies loot the country and you are hoping to get some of that windfall. You are either benefiting through the stock market or through some business, and you do not give a damn about the people dying or the damage done to our National Parks, to the constitution and our personal freedoms, to our ecology, to our schools, to health care for everyone (you've apparently got yours though), and so on.
It is naked self interest, because there is absolutely nothing else that Trump guarantees for his supporters and the man is an idiot who is manifestly incompetent to be president.
So you may think your little quips here are funny or clever, but realize that this is what many others here think of you.
11:56,
DeleteYou're underselling the delight Right-wingers have in being cruel to others.
No, no, understand our Dixey is voting for trump because he is emptying the swamp. don't you get it?
DeleteThe New York Times reported this week that the president urged his ambassador to the U.K. to try to get British officials to steer a lucrative golf tournament to the Trump Turnberry resort in Scotland, one of the president's struggling businesses.
... complaints were raised with the State Department’s Office of the Inspector General last fall. The article added, "The findings were submitted in February, and the complaints are expected to be included, according to one of the investigators. It is not clear why the review has not been made public."
This is a thread worth pulling on. What were those findings? Where's the report? What did the State Department's inspector general conclude? How much of it covers the British Open mess?
Well, that's a little bit of a problem now, cause see,
NBC News added yesterday than an IG report "was completed and marked classified as of May; an unclassified version has yet to be released."
And while there's plenty of ambiguities about the nature of the report, it also puts a new light on Trump's decision in May to fire the State Department's inspector general -- late on a Friday night, when he often does things he hopes others won't notice.
When zombies hate you this much, sistah, you may want to go and get yourself a S&W. Just sayin'...
DeleteAww, they just always enjoy sounding like a combination of Alec Baldwin/Jonathan Edwards/Evita castigating their lingerie laundress.
DeleteI can’t count that out. sheesh.
DeleteProbably best just to read the blog.
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ReplyDelete