The essence of partisan warfare: As you may have noticed, "cable news" has become almost wholly partisan.
This brings us to an amazingly tired old question—what did Donald J. Trump actually say about what happened in Charlottesville?
Before we address that question, we'll establish a more recent point. Here's what former NFL player Jack Brewer actually said last night, at the GOP convention:
BREWER (8/26/20): Are you going to allow the media to lie to you by falsely claiming that he said there are very fine white supremacists in Charlottesville? He didn't say that. It's a lie.We're disinclined to regulate "lies." But according to Brewer, Donald J. Trump didn't say that there were "very fine white supremacists in Charlottesville."
Thanks to our own moral greatness, you can see the actual words Brewer actually said.
We didn't paraphrase what he said. We showed you what he actually said. Sadly, people on our corporate blue team hate it when people say things like that.
On MSNBC, Rachel, Joy and Nicolle immediately swung into action, seeming to contradict what the "journeyman" player had said. (We were watching live.)
MSNBC no longer transcribes its programs, and it has cut way back on video production. For those reason, we can't show you what these corporate hirelings said, though we'll characterize their comments below.
We can show you what Yamiche Alcindor instantly said.
Alcindor works for the PBS NewsHour, allegedly one of our brightest news orgs. She was at the New York Times before that.
Brewer had made a disallowed claim. Quickly, Alcindor tweeted this attempt at a rebuttal:
ALCINDOR (8/26/20): Jack Brewer, former NFL player, just said it was a lie that President Trump said "very fine people" go to Nazi rallies.That's what Alcindor said. Staff at New York magazine thought it deserved wider airing.
Trump after the events in Charlottesville where Nazis gathered and one killed a protester: "But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides."
As you can see, Alcindor did a very poor job recording what Brewer had said.
That sort of thing is par for the course. She then provided the standard "blue tribe" clip from Trump's remarks about Charlottesville—the one statement on the subject we're allowed to hear.
(The rules: We aren't told what he seemed to be talking about when he made that statement. We aren't allowed to hear the various other things he said at that same press event.)
Alcindor provided the one line our sachems like to repeat. She didn't repeat the following comment, made in the same press event from which her clip was taken:
TRUMP (8/15/17): I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.Yes, that's what the commander said when he was asked to clarify his meaning that day. The commander said he wasn't talking about the neo-Nazis or the white nationalists. The commander said the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists "should be condemned totally."
That's what Brewer was talking about last night. In all likelihood, he was also referring to this statement, made at that same press event:
TRUMP: I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.At that point, Trump was reminding reporters that he had already condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists in an earlier statement about the events in Charlottesville.
At that same August 15 press event, he said this about his earlier (written) statement:
TRUMP: Saturday, we condemned in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America.The commander said that too! (In fairness, he may have been talking about the killing of Heather Heyer at that point.)
At another point, he referred to "neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them," describing them as "rough, bad people." These are the things he said that day, the things you must never hear.
We aren't trying to tell you what was, or is, in Donald J. Trump's heart. Our own basic assumption is that Donald J. Trump is some version of a sociopath, though that's a point that corporate players like Alcindor have agreed they must never discuss.
We aren't telling you what was in his heart; we're simply showing you what he said at the press event from which Alcindor chose to repeat our failing, utterly hapless tribe's one favorite single sentence.
We liberals! We love that sentence with all our hearts. We love the way it makes us feel when we get to repeat it.
It helps define us as the very good people, arrayed against those who are very bad. As with tribal justice warriors dating to the dawn of time, we love the way it makes us feel when we get to define ourselves like that.
It's pathetic and sad that this manifest bullshit is still a point of dispute. The fact that it is helps us see the essence of tribalized warfare, as conducted since the dawn of time among us war-inclined "rational animals."
If we were Alcindor's employer, we'd be embarrassed today. Employers of Rachel, Joy and Nicolle have proven the fact that they're beyond any embarrassment.
(For reasons no one has explained, they stopped transcribing their programs back on July 13. In fairness, if we were producing the type of program they produce, we'd want to make it harder to critique our corporate dreckwork too.
Last night, Joy started by telling the world that Brewer had been a"journeyman" NFL player. In tribal warfare, the other guy must always be denigrated.
The ladies proceeded to recite our tribe's one favorite quote, while disappearing all the clarifications Trump offered at that same event. Might we quote the commander again?
TRUMP (8/15/17): I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.Yes, that's what he actually said. Compare that, if you will, to Alcindor's pseudo-report.
Our pitiful corporate tribe is badly fallen. They live to pleasure themselves, and to pleasure us.
That said, all our news orgs are corrupted now. It's pathetic that this low-IQ gong-show keeps arising, but it always will.
Final repetition:
We aren't telling you what Trump really believed that day, or what he feels today. We're just telling you what he said on the day in question.
Alcindor and The Cable News Three pretended to do that very same thing. Instead of making a real attempt, they fed you the treat they knew you would like.
This is the work of a failing nation. It's a nation in which things are visibly falling apart.
"Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee."
ReplyDeleteThose with an unhealthy preoccupation with losers. If you look at Trump's business career, you can see why many of the Lee/ loser fans support Trump.
"This is the work of a failing nation."
ReplyDeleteNah, dear Bob, the nation is fine. This is the work of your liberal-hitlerian cult. But of course you, dear Bob, a card-carrying member, have no courage to admit it.
Sad.
Trump said: "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally."
ReplyDeleteIf he believes this, then why didn't he condemn them? And why does he retweet them? And why does he appoint them to positions in his administration? And why do his tweets contain dog whistles and shout outs to them? And why does he surround himself with them at his rallies (back when there were rallies)? These are not the actions of someone who believes that white supremacists should be condemned. They are the actions of someone who longs to come out of the closet as a white supremacist himself, like his daddy Fred did.
That paraphrase is a straw man. People in the media have been quoting Trump, not putting those words in his mouth. This is the right pretending that Trump is a victim of unfair quoting, just as Somerby is doing again, when he says they cropped off the part where Trump was just supporting bigots who celebrate the loss of the Civil War.
ReplyDelete"Our pitiful corporate tribe is badly fallen. They live to pleasure themselves, and to pleasure us."
ReplyDeleteThis is a crude statement in which Somerby implies that the media exists to masturbate, much like when he talked about Rachel stuffing cash in her pants. This isn't cute or funny, just ugly language from an ugly man.
Somerby, this isn't how you find your better self.
No, he used an innuendo as a metaphor to convey crass behavior. That’s what people do as a way to subtly illustrate such a point.
DeleteIn a arena where coarse language is routine, you have an odd tipping point.
I don't like being told that I am masturbating when I watch the cable news I like. It implies that the only reason I like it is because I feel good watching what I agree with. That is Somerby's whole premise and he sells everyone here short and is wrong about why people watch what they choose. His assertion is insulting. And there is nothing subtle about it.
DeleteIt’s interesting that I could launch an explicit explanation of why the symbolism is the opposite of masturbation and you wouldn’t blink an eye at the topic or the vernacula.
Delete"... you have an odd tipping point."
DeleteLook who's talking.
Quote me where I’ve lectured anyone about language or metaphors, Bob.
DeleteCecelia no like hoomans petting no no parts, only like touching part goes bang bang into dark semi-hoomans.
DeleteSomerby does not like protestors lighting fires, but is silent on cops and Republicans shooting bullets into the backs of blacks and into the head and crowds of protestors.
Every day, Bob posts, then his commenters reinforce his point. He's talking not about what Trump thinks, but the actual words he said vs what liberal news outlets SAY he said.
ReplyDeleteWhat "liberal news outlets?"
DeleteBob's usually citing corporate media, like the NY Times, CNN, FOX, etc.
5:32 so Trump has not said and dog-whistled racist things? That is what news outlets say. Maybe it is a "spanish thing", idk.
Delete“Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.”
ReplyDeleteWell, Trump was correct here at least. From Wikipedia:
“The Unite the Right rally was a white supremacist and neo-Nazi rally that took place in Charlottesville, Virginia, from August 11 to 12, 2017. Protesters were members of the far-right and included self-identified members of the alt-right, neo-Confederates, neo-fascists, white nationalists, neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and various right-wing militias. The marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans and carried weapons, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols, the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus Vult crosses, flags, and other symbols of various past and present anti-Muslim and antisemitic groups. The organizers' stated goals included unifying the American white nationalist movement and opposing the proposed removal of the statue of General Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville's former Lee Park.”
But here’s the thing: the rally was specifically a rally of neo-Nazis, etc. It existed for no other purpose. And yes, they also “wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.”
So when trump says there were fine people on the “Unite the Right” side, he is saying there were fine people in this collection of exclusively alt-right Nazi, white supremacist folks.
And that is the inconvenient fact that Trump and Brewer and Somerby don’t want you to know.
Trump and maybe Brewer I understand.
But Somerby?
So there was no possibly that locals with a lineage of Confederate antecedents, or merely of picnics in the park, might have wanted to keep that space as it has been since their birth? People who weren’t members of the tiki torch crowd?
DeleteActually, there were locals who are active in community groups that were debating such changes. As big media gets wind and becomes involved they are drowned out by incoming political activists, extremist groups, and media hyperbole.
It wouldn’t kill you to make such distinctions even when it isn’t politically expedient. You can tell these locals that you think that it’s time to move on from their lore into a broader horizon.
You may be surprised how eager they are to relinquish the past with the right approach.
It won’t gain political talking points or media ratings, but that’s Bob’s point.
Cecelia, no, no possibility at all. This was a unite the right, white supremacist rally, not a save the statue rally, not that someone couldn't be a member of both categories.
DeleteBob Somerby is wrong.
No, long before the outside extremist groups became involved the locals were debating changes.
Delete"outside extremist groups"
DeleteYou mean ALEC?
No. Never heard of it.
DeleteShe means militias and Boogaloo Bois.
DeleteOur Cecelia sez:
DeleteActually, there were locals who are active in community groups that were debating such changes. ... You can tell these locals that you think that it’s time to move on from their lore into a broader horizon. You may be surprised how eager they are to relinquish the past with the right approach.
That's adorable! Or it would be if you weren't a living, commenting example of it's exact opposite.
You think that 150 years after a bunch of traitors and slavers decided to form a more perfecter union in the name of white supremacy, their ancestors just want to picnic in the park only-incidentally in the shadow of monuments to treason and slavery? That all anyone has to do is tell this crowd that it's time to move on from their "lore" that they and their family going back generations may be losers but at least they're white losers?
Yeah, I'd be surprised if they "relinquished the past" in the face of sweet reason because opposition to the beliefs they cling to produces nothing but a harder clutching of those beliefs. A trail of lynching, bombing, discrimination, and voter suppression from then to now is littered with the evidence.
You know that it's still called the Edmund Pettus Bridge, proudly named for the man who spent a decade in the US Senate representing Alabama, right?. A brief search in the google reveals that Pettus spent four years fighting for the Lost Cause and rising to the rank of general, despite having a talent for being captured. After the Civil War, he became an ardent supporter of racial equality and civil rights.
I'm just fuckin' with ya. After the Civil War, Pettus served as the Grand Dragon of the Alabama KKK. I'm sure he was in White Supremacist Heaven smiling down at his eponymous bridge during the Civil War era re-enactment on March 7, 1965. It'll take the concurrence of the Alabama legislature to change the name of the bridge.
The 2020 session of the legislature adjourned sine die last May 18, but they're scheduled to return in February or March of next year. Assuming they're all not dead of COVID-19, how about you and I head on down to Montgomery (capital of 'Bama now, and of the Confederacy then) and lobby them to change the name? I'm sure they'll be eager to relinquish the past with the right approach.
“She means militias and Boogaloo Bois.”
DeleteExactly.
Oh, deadrat, you’re the most angry militant here,
DeleteThe only reason you show up is because Somerby’s broad analysis expands your field of targets.
There may be groups without violent intentions, but Trump was talking about the both sides that were present, which were peaceful protestors and violent bigots.
Delete"Somerby’s broad analysis expands your field of targets. "
DeleteAre we supposed to pretend this makes any sense?
People are saying Trump University has deep discounts on their ESL classes, I hear they are beautiful classes, some of them are quite young.
Whaddya doing, our Cecelia? Channeling the professor?
DeleteHow did you distinguish between anger and disgust?
How do you figure I'm "militant"? What does that mean to you?
And I've repeatedly admitted why I'm here -- to listen to the sound of my own voice. Believe it or don't, Ripley. Max nixt to me.
How about our field trip to the Alabama legislature to croon the sweet reason to them that they're yearning to hear? Are you in? 'Cause I'm not going alone with this attitude.
No, long before the outside extremist groups became involved the locals were debating changes.
DeleteWhat does that have to do with the price of soybeans in China, Dixie?
The Facts
The Charlottesville City Council in February 2017 had voted to remove a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee that had stood in the city since 1924, but opponents quickly sued in court to block the decision. In June 2017, the City Council voted to give Lee Park, where the statue stood, a new name — Emancipation Park. (In 2018, the park was renamed yet again to Market Street Park.)
The city’s actions inspired a group of neo-Nazis, white supremacists and related groups to schedule the “Unite the Right” rally for the weekend of Aug. 12, 2017, in Charlottesville. There is little dispute over the makeup of the groups associated with the rally. A well-known white nationalist, Richard Spencer, was involved; former Ku Klux Klan head David Duke was a scheduled speaker. “Charlottesville prepares for a white nationalist rally on Saturday,” a Washington Post headline read.
…
Suddenly, a militia group associated with the Patriot movement announced it was also going to hold an event called 1Team1Fight Unity in Charlottesville on Saturday, Aug. 12, rescheduling an event that has been planned for Greenville, S.C., 370 miles away. Other militia groups also made plans to attend.
On the night of Aug. 11, the neo-Nazi and white-supremacist groups marched on the campus of the University of Virginia, carrying flaming torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/very-fine-people-charlottesville-who-were-they-2/
************
So which of those neo-Nazis, white nationalists, KKK members and antigovernment militia who were actually the only ones there were the "very fine people" Donald J Chickenshit imagined he saw?
This article mentions local people who sued over the removal of a Robert E. Lee statute before the other extremist groups got involved.
DeleteThere were also what was described as locals protesting in the park when the tiki torch carrying group was over at the UVA campus.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/amp/charlottesville-virginia-violence-timeline/2305769/
This article mentions local people who sued over the removal of a Robert E. Lee statute before the other extremist groups got involved.
DeleteWe're discussing the events of August 11-12 and the cowardly dishonest words spoken by Donald J Chickenshit, Acting President, in the wake of those specific events, yes? Quit moving the goal posts by bringing up the Confederate dead enders whose elected representatives decided in a democratic manner to remove the statue of the traitor to our Union.
How did I move the goal posts when you replied to something I wrote to mh?
DeleteHow did I move the goal posts when you replied to something I wrote to mh?
DeleteWe're discussing the events of August 11-12 and the cowardly dishonest words spoken by Donald J Chickenshit, Acting President, in the wake of those specific events, yes?
That is the subject TDH has raised in his article. No one is denying the lawsuit filed in March. But it has fuck all to do with anything related to what the lying sack of shit said in August.
Be clear, Dixie. These neo Nazis, white nationalists/supremacists, KKK members and right wing militia groups are an important segment of Donald J Chickenshit's coalition.
He was too cowardly to honestly and forthrightly condemn them immediately after the tragic events. His initial statement was praised by David Duke. So cut the shit.
There were also what was described as locals protesting in the park when the tiki torch carrying group was over at the UVA campus.
Bullshit.
Read the blog. Trump did condemn them.
DeleteI understand Somerby in being disconcerted that we’ve moved beyond the ACLU suing for the right of free speech for neo-Nazis to protest, to being down with Antifa suiting up to bust their heads.
And we’re even less reasonably disposed to the notion that there is anything in between.
Trump did condemn them.
DeleteChrist, you're dense.
He condemned them 3 days later when the shit was hitting the fan. Find me the imaginary "very fine people" - you know, the history buffs who simply want to honor a traitor to our Union - in the group of neo Nazis, white nationalists/supremacists, KKK members and right wing militia groups that your racist president thinks he saw on August 11/12. That is the fucking issue, Dixie. Your president is a lying sack of shit coward.
"Whaddya doing, our Cecelia? Channeling the professor?"
DeleteWhile I do acknowledge your courageous stance of being at peace with your own flaws, I recognize that you are here to kick people in the nuts.
If you can do that by calmly upbraiding the unreasonable folks, you'll do it. If you can do it by angrily upbraiding reasonable people. you'll do it.
Either way, you are here to kick people in the nuts.
mm, find you what? You're right. I couldn't.
DeleteWhile I do acknowledge your courageous stance of being at peace with your own flaws....
DeleteAt least I recognize them. Too bad a little of that hasn't rubbed off on you.
I recognize that you are here to kick people in the nuts.
An er, interesting sexualization of my standard of discourse. You might want to talk to the professor about your need to do this.
If you can do that by calmly upbraiding the unreasonable folks, you'll do it. If you can do it by angrily upbraiding reasonable people. you'll do it.
I see you're talking about my attitude. As the man wrote, “I don’t mind if you don’t like my manners. They’re pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings.”
Either way, you are here to kick people in the nuts.
That makes you immune, no? So what's your problem?
I've told you why I'm here. You don't want to accept my word for that? Fine. Any comments on the substance of what I write?
(So I guess this means our trip next year to Montgomery is off. As they say south of the Mason-Dixon line, quelle déception.)
“ Either way, you are here to kick people in the nuts.
DeleteThat makes you immune, no? So what's your problem?”
This imakes a good point. I don’t know anything about you and you don’t know anything about me.
I could very well be a man writing from the pokey.
I don’t mind the not being human thing, or being called racist, the usual stuff. but DO knock off the “our Cecelia”
It causes me to hear you in Hannibal Lector’s voice.
Why do you always forget to explain that Rachel’s owner are NBC and your tribal buddy from the GE club.
ReplyDeleteThat it is they who write and edit her script and who are as conservative and tribal as any one.
MSNBC and FOX all the rest enjoy stoking tribalism.
It deflects Most people from seeing what those of us who see through the fog of identity See.
That it is class that truly divides.
If it were not so you Robert would be able to call out your Boston Irish policeman tribe for harboring shitty cops who alas make the honest cops look bad not can’t
Call them out because of ....tribalism.
You dear Robert are stuck in the south side of Boston.
And please spare me the “Bob calls out Irish bigots” nonsense, he called out Jack Welch” and Chris Matthews”.
As I said it’s class warfare and those two Not
Shanty but lace Curtin
And Bob is sooo shanty he would never call his own class out.
To shanty lace curtain is from mars.
Try to suggest solutions for a change
Btw I still waiting on your Al Gore 2000 election treatise
I have up on you a long time ago
I truly am sorry
Why does this one particular statement matter when there is an ongoing stream of support for white supremacists coming from Trump?
ReplyDeleteAlcindor criticized Madison Cawthorn, a paralyzed young man, because he struggled to stand for the flag. I personally found his act kind of schmaltzy. It was a takeoff on something FDR did, and not a particularly good one IMHO.
ReplyDeleteAlcindor had a different criticism. She saw Cawthorn's act as a criticism of blackw who kneel for the flag. She tweeted, ‘It was a direct rebuke of actions by ppl - including black athletes who are currently sitting out games - protesting police brutality.’
"Not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee."
ReplyDeleteSo "those people" were divided between white supremacists and neo-Nazis and people who really like statues of Robert E Lee, which includes Trump by his own admission.
If you know the facts, there is no distinction between those two groups regarding white-supremacy.
By Lee's own words, Robert E. Lee was a self-confessed white-supremacist. He was also a slaver and traitor to his country. Trump is a admitted admirer of Robert E. Lee, a white-supremacist, and wants him to be honored.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"By Lee's own words, Robert E. Lee was a self-confessed white-supremacist."
DeleteSo was Thomas Jefferson, dear dembot. And Goeorge Washington. And Abraham Lincoln. And (arguably) FDR. And everyone else, until recently.
Also, the World Health Organization (The Science!) was considering homosexuality a mental disorder until 1990 or so.
And what of it, dear dembot? What is your point?
Humyn history didn't start the day the liberal cult erased all common sense, decency, and logic from your brain, replacing it with Orange Man Bad.
Brewer states that the “liberal media” falsely claimed that Trump stated that there are very fine white supremacists. A lazy reader would assume that this piece of propaganda is an accurate quote lifted from the monolithic liberal media. Of course it is not. And of course instead of exposing this garbage talk for what it is, Somerby accepts it to make his tired point. And given that Brewer’s statement is false, Somerby’s criticism is baseless, without any foundation.
ReplyDeleteFrom Digby's Blog:
ReplyDelete"In case you weren’t already aware of the Trump strategy for November:
“The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who’s best on public safety and law and order.” — Kellyanne Conway
The fact that the man who is already in the White House is fomenting violence as she speaks is supposed to go unnoticed by the American people, I guess.
Basically, Trump is ginning up violence in order to scare people into voting for him to … stop the violence? Ok."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteA Right-winger asking what's so bad about white supremacy is too on brand.
DeletePolls released today show a 14-15% lead for Biden over Trump. Questions were asked as recently as yesterday. These two polls show a convention bounce for Biden (up from 9% lead) but no bounce so far for Trump. They also show no effect of recent rioting, at least nationwide.
ReplyDeleteThere is no basis for the hair-pulling of concern trolls.
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