STARTING TOMORROW: Songs sung blue!

MONDAY, MAY 8, 2023

Naked and afraid: Last fall, on October 19, Donald J. Trump sat for a deposition as part of the rape / defamation lawsuit brought against him by E. Jean Carroll.

Trump was questioned by Roberta Kaplan, an attorney representing Carroll.

Last Friday, 48 minutes of minutes of videotaped excerpts were made available for public perusal. After watching the tape, we'd say that Trump was struggling to remain as low-key and inoffensive as possible, though he did succumb, along the way, to several startling lapses.

Last Friday afternoon, MNBC'S Nicolle Wallace invited four of her "favorite reporters and friends" to review those videotaped excerpts on Deadline: White House. 

This segment in question occurred at the start of the program's 5 o'clock hour. When the program returned from commercial break, this piece of videotape appeared:

KAPLAN: "When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything, grab them by the [BLEEP], you can do anything." That's what you said, correct?

TRUMP: Well, historically, that's true with stars.

KAPLAN: It's true with stars, that they can grab women by the [BLEEP]?

TRUMP: Well, that's what—if you look over the last million years, I guess that's been largely true. Not always, but largely true. Unfortunately or fortunately.

KAPLAN: You consider yourself to be a star?

TRUMP: I think you can say that, yeah.

With that cold open, the 5 o'clock hour began. 

In that exchange, Kaplan was quoting a statement Trump had made, apparently in private, in 2005. It was a well-known part of the very well-known "Access Hollywood tape," which became public eleven years later, in October 2016.

The 5 o'clock hour of Deadline: White House began with that piece of tape. At that point, Wallace appeared—and when she did, she offered this interpretation of what Trump had said:

WALLACE (continuing directly from above): Hi, everyone. It is 5 o'clock in New York. This is the front-runner for the Republican nomination for president, who thinks, as of today, that he is a star, and that stars can do that.

Say what? Is that really what Trump said on that tape? Does Wallace think he said that?

It almost sounded like Wallace thought that Trump had reaffirmed his right to grab women by the [BLEEP]. She seemed to think that Trump told Kaplan, during his deposition, 1) that yes, he is a star, and 2) that stars still get to do that.

Is that what Wallace thought Trump said? Here you see her fuller statement as the segment began:

WALLACE (5/5/23): Hi, everyone. It is 5 o'clock in New York. This is the front-runner for the Republican nomination for president, who thinks, as of today, that he is a star and that stars can do that.

It's part of the newly released deposition of the disgraced, twice-impeached, once-indicted ex-president, doubling down, under oath, and now in front of the entire country and world, on comments he first made, as far as we know, on the Access Hollywood tape about where you can grab women.

According to Wallace, Trump had "doubled down" on his earlier comments from the Access Hollywood tape. She seemed to think that Trump had said that—because he is a star—it would still be an acceptable norm for him to behave in that way.

Did Nicolle Wallace really think that that's what Trump had said? Did she really think that Trump had told attorney Kaplan that, even "as of today," he has some sort of right to do that? He can do that because he's a star?

At this point, we'll be honest:

It would never have occurred to us to think that Trump had said that. Nor did Kaplan ever ask him if that's what he meant by the statement in question—or if she did, that exchange wasn't included in the excerpts from the deposition which were made public.

Question:

Had Donald J. Trump really "doubled down" on what he said in 2005? Had he really said that he retains some sort of right to behave in the manner described—in a manner which, under prevailing law, would be a criminal assault in almost all jurisdictions?

It wouldn't have occurred to us that that was what he'd said! But by the time this Deadline: White House segment was done, four of Wallace's favorite reporters and friends had explicitly agreed with her interpretation—and by ten minutes past the hour, Wallace even seemed to say that Trump wasn't even denying the charges Carroll had made!

He wasn't even denying her charges? After playing a carefully edited bit of tape, Wallace insanely said this:

WALLACE: I wonder, Maya [Wiley]. Again, this jury is going to hear him say that today, he thinks he's a star and can carry out the act of grabbing women between the legs. He's saying, "She loved what I did to her." I mean, it is really anything but a denial of the physical conduct that she alleges.

Ten minutes into the lengthy segment, Wallace had reached this very strange point.

According to Wallace, Trump wasn't even denying the charges brought by Carroll. According to Wallace, Trump had said this on the videotape:

"She loved what I did to her."

That's the crazy thing Wallace said after watching a carefully edited bit of tape. (As a courtesy to all involved, we aren't saying "doctored.")

Briefly, let's be honest:

Cable news, as it now exists, is built around crazy statements. It's also built around absurd or highly tendentious interpretations agreed to by one and all.

In effect, it's an endless succession of tribal rallies—of songs sung blue or red.

Of the major players in this disordered world, Tucker Carlson had long been most disordered. In our view, he had been most disordered by far.

At least for now, Tucker Carlson is gone.

Does that leave Wallace as the least reliable narrator in the realm of cable news? In fairness, there are many mornings when the hosts and sidekicks on Morning Joe don't seem to be far behind.

Of one thing you can be sure—whatever assessment Wallace makes, her ever-shifting arrays of favorites are almost surely going to agree with her. On Friday, a rare exception occurred:

On Friday, Wallace's claim that Trump wasn't even denying Carroll's charges was so baldly absurd—was so patently crazy—that Wiley didn't second the emotion, and no one else returned to the crazy claim. 

But make no mistake! As the Deadline bandwagon rolls along, with Morning Joe serving as an approximation, Donald J. Trump seems to be ascending in national polls. 

This afternoon, we'll look at the latest horrific numbers. This morning, the Morning Joe gang—two co-hosts, one sidekick, three additional guests—wondered why the voters seem to be tilting that way. 

It didn't seem to occur to the Morning Joe gang that, when people refuse to vote the blue way, some of those voters are refusing became of their loathing for them. It never occurs to players like these that the problem may be them.

All this week, we'll sift through the claim five people made on Deadline: White House last Friday—the claim that Trump had doubled down on his Access Hollywood statement. 

Along the way, we'll look at some other songs sung blue—at a few other doctored claims to which our tribunes cling like drowning people clinging to rafts, or like children lost in the woods.

To us, they seem like children lost in the woods, naked and afraid.  They just keep singing their songs sung blue! 

Does democracy in their hands, along with progressive interests?

Tomorrow: Had Donald J. Trump "doubled down" on his claim? On Deadline: White House (and virtually nowhere else), everyone said he had!

Fuller disclosures: Naked and afraid? For the background on our literary reference, you can just click this.

To watch the Deadline segment in question, let the Internet Archive help you! To start, you should just click here.

109 comments:

  1. "According to Wallace, Trump had "doubled down" on his earlier comments from the Access Hollywood tape. She seemed to think that Trump had said that—because he is a star—it would still be an acceptable norm for him to behave in that way."

    Not only does Wallace think that, but so do I. I don't think there is any other way to interpret it, even if Trump was supposedly trying to be inoffensive (according to Somerby's mind-reading).

    And no, that Access Hollywood tape wasn't private, because both Trump and Billy Bush were wearings mics and being videoed. Otherwise, we would have no recording of the conversation.

    Throughout the election, Trump was protected by various people who kept his off-camera statements out of the campaign from his many Apprentice shows. And in addition to his payoffs to women about his affairs, but he also made his staff sign NDAs. Somerby pretends that Trump's privacy was invaded but any other candidates would have to answer to a great deal more of his behavior.

    There are so many other things Trump could have said when confronted by that video of himself and Bush. There are the kinds of things a good, decent person would have said. And yes, he did double down on it. There is something wrong with Somerby that he thinks he can call that into question.

    And then there is this: "The oldest hominins are thought to have appeared as early as 7 million B.C.E. The earliest species of the Homo genus appeared around 2 million to 1.5 million B.C.E. Current evidence supports modern Homo sapiens appearing around 190,000 B.C.E."

    Modern humans have not been on earth for a million years and no one is concerned with mating habits of our ape-like ancestors. This is the man who was formerly president of the US. Surely he can hold himself to higher standards of sexual behavior than pre-human apes.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Trump never said on this tape that he liked to grab women by the pussy. He never "admitted" to it or even implied that he did it or that it was ok to do so.

      All he said was that when you're a big star they let you do things like that -- which is actually true by the way. Plus, does anyone actually think he was being serious there? It was an obvious joke-- an obvious 2-bit Howard Stern routine.

      I'm glad that Bob has actually LISTENED to the tape itself. Not many people have, apparently.

      Delete
    2. He did admit to kissing them, without asking them.

      “I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p*ssy. You can do anything."

      That was also quoted in the deposition. The jury will have to decide if that was merely locker room talk.

      Delete
    3. Sorry but your post is obviously FALSE to the extent it’s impossible to believe you actually believe it. He absolutely did say that (It’s like a magnet, I just start kissing them, when you’re famous they let you do it, etc.). So the question becomes, was it the ascendence of Trump that told you it was O.K. to bold face fib out anything? Or is your disregard of others an extension of your own lack of self respect?

      Delete
    4. @12:14 Ironically, you are claiming that Trump was fibbing when he said that to Billy Bush. I think the Billy Bush version is the real Trump. I think Trump lied during his deposition.

      Delete
    5. Again, there are not 25 women who have accused Trump of raping them or grabbing them by the pussy. And Trump never admitted or said that he grabs women by the pussy. He said they LET YOU DO IT if you're a big star.

      Big difference. So Bob's entirely correct here.

      Delete
    6. In his deposition, Trump said that if you are a star you can commit rape, and when asked if he was a star, he said yes. That is damning testimony.

      Delete
  2. "Donald J. Trump seems to be ascending in national polls. "

    Republican voters look beyond the fact a self-admitted sexual predator is a rapist, and can see the bigotry in his heart.

    ReplyDelete
  3. "Did Nicolle Wallace really think that that's what Trump had said? Did she really think that Trump had told attorney Kaplan that, even "as of today," he has some sort of right to do that? He can do that because he's a star?

    At this point, we'll be honest:

    It would never have occurred to us to think that Trump had said that. Nor did Kaplan ever ask him if that's what he meant by the statement in question—or if she did, that exchange wasn't included in the excerpts from the deposition which were made public."

    How many chances does Trump get to rewrite his statements before Somerby will accept that Trump actually said what he said and meant it?

    For the record, there were no caveman "stars".

    Somerby never says what he thinks Trump meant by his statements, if he didn't mean what EVERYONE has attributed to him, what he actually said. What is the alternative interpretation? I think Somerby hasn't said because there is no other way to look at Trump's statement, especially in the light of his repeated behavior with 25+ women (and those are just the ones who have come forward).

    We are not idiots. If there were one or two or even five women accusing Trump, he might get some benefit of the doubt. But 25 women? Somerby cannot make up any circumstances that would have resulted in that large number of women, in the absence of bad behavior by Trump.

    Yes, Trump was bragging. But why would he brag about such a specific thing? And when Trump brags that he has a gold toilet, he has one. When he bragged about his classified documents, he had them to show his friends. When Trump bragged about having all the best words, surely he was doubling down on his own statements, of which he is very proud. So, unless Somerby can come up with an innocuous interpretation of Trump's statement to Bush, that is the albatross around Trump's neck.

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    1. You really hit the key point here. Bob thinks he can hector his rubes into believing Trump is not saying what he obviously IS saying with a lot of feigned disbelief, but conspicuously does not explain what he thinks Trump DID say. He can’t really do that without dwelling on the fact that Trump is a ghastly slob, and that Bob himself is one sick puppy.,

      Delete
    2. “We’ll be honest, it would never have occurred to us to think Trump had said that.”
      Bob has come to express himself in strange ways. Could an honest person, at this point, be shocked by anything Trump says? Why would Bob simply say, “Trump didn’t say that?”
      He needs to couch his denial in his imagined, utterly fake virtue.,

      Delete
    3. What "25 women" have accused Trump of either grabbing them by the pussy or raping them somewhere, or engaging in a failed zipless fuck incident?

      There are none other than her. That and her "I'm a shy young girl from Indiana" routine on the stand, and her tearing up at tough questioning, makes me suspicious about all of this.

      Delete
    4. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/us/politics/trump-accused-sexual-misconduct.html

      Delete
    5. https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

      Delete
    6. There are not 25 women who have accused Trump of raping them or grabbing them by the pussy. That's just completely false.

      Look, Trump never admitted or said that he grabs women by the pussy. He said they LET YOU DO IT if you're a big star.

      So Bob's entirely correct here -- Trump has never admitted to anything --except maybe grabbing them and kissing them, supposedly, which he obviously wasn't being serious about if you have half a brain.

      You don't have to like Trump to see this, either.

      Delete
    7. Politics is all comedy nowadays.
      Even the Mueller Report joked that Trump hadn't colluded with Russia.

      Delete
    8. Lonely troll is trolling for attention, poor baby! Hi baby. Hope you're doing ok!!! Sorry, you're so lonely you have to troll for attention. It'll get better!

      Delete
  4. The second amendment is evil.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "and by ten minutes past the hour, Wallace even seemed to say that Trump wasn't even denying the charges Carroll had made!"

    What does Somerby think it means that Trump and his attorney have offered no defense?

    We all know that Trump has denied everything and called Carroll a liar. That is the defamation part of this trial. He went a great deal further than that, attacking her in various ways. Trump thinks that a strong offense is the best defense, so he engaged in bullying to try to suppress her accusations. That too is creating sympathy for Carroll, who obviously could have dropped the whole effort years ago.

    Carroll is a star too. Does she get to grab Trump by the crotch? If you think about why not, then you will understand Trump's motives better. Cossetted baby Trump gets to feel like a star, like a caveman, like a he-man, just by kissing them and being unable to stop. Has Somerby forgotten that part of his conversation with Bush?

    ""You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful -- I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait," Trump says on the tape, which was played for the jury."

    That sounds like a confession to me. Why would Somerby leave that part of the video out of his discussion today?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because Bob is a dishonest weirdo.,

      Delete
    2. Where on that video does Trump admit or even say that he grabs women by the pussy? He says he grabs 'em and kisses them, which apparently there are not too many cases of because you'd definitely be hearing about them all now for sure.

      Look, I hate Trump, but only Bob has been actually listening to this tape, sadly. And he's right.

      Delete
    3. If you haven't heard the complaints against Trump, you aren't listening.

      Do you really not understand that grabbing women and kissing them are sexual assault?

      Delete
    4. What's wrong with being sexy?

      Delete
    5. Rape is violence, not sex.

      Delete
  6. "That's the crazy thing Wallace said after watching a carefully edited bit of tape. (As a courtesy to all involved, we aren't saying "doctored.")"

    Doctored means changed. Excerpted means you don't change the tape, you just play a limited part of it. Unless Somerby has evidence that Wallace changed the tape, he needs to be careful what he says here. Hinting or implying that an MSNBC cable news host "doctored" the tape, which has been widely heard since it came out before Trump's election, shows the depths Somerby would sink to to defend Trump from the indefensible.

    Here is the Billy Bush transcript:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html

    Here is the deposition released to the public:

    https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/01/trump-deposition.pdf

    In Trump's deposition, he says that he "swooned" her and there is some discussion of what the word swoon meant, then he says:

    TRUMP: Well, sort of that's what
    she said I did to her.· She fainted with great
    emotion. She actually indicated that she loved
    it. Okay? She loved it until commercial
    break. [he is discussing Carroll's interview with Anderson Cooper] In fact, I think she said it was sexy,
    didn't she?· She said it was very sexy to be
    raped. Didn't she say that?

    MS. KAPLAN:

    Q. So, sir, I just want to confirm: It's
    your testimony that E. Jean Carroll said that she
    loved being sexually assaulted by you?

    A. Well, based on her interview with
    Anderson Cooper, I believe that's what took place.
    And we can define that. You'll have to show that.
    I'm sure you're going to show that. But she was
    interviewed by Anderson Cooper, and I think she said
    that rape was sexy -- which it's not, by the way.
    But I think she said that rape was sexy, and it
    was -- she actually said things that were very
    strange, and then she was a different person after
    the -- when he said "We'll take a break right now.
    We're going to take a break right now," he didn't
    like what she was saying.· He was very upset with
    what -- and then she came back, and she was a much
    different woman in the second half, so to speak.

    This is what Donald Trump said in his deposition. It goes on like that and Trump's meaning is clear. This is what Trump said about Carroll. I don't know what tape Somerby is referring to (video of his deposition?) and he doesn't exactly say. The idea that Wallace would doctor Trump's deposition is ludicrous. Somerby is pathetically grasping at straws. One wonders why Somerby is so invested in Trump's innocence.

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    1. It is pretty typical of a narcissist that Trump would think that every woman must love every attention he shows them. When men assault women, they often excuse it by saying "she wanted me."

      Delete
    2. In case anyone is wondering whether Somerby really meant the video was doctored, when he denied saying so, here is what he says just a few paragraphs later:

      "Along the way, we'll look at some other songs sung blue—at a few other doctored claims to which our tribunes cling like drowning people clinging to rafts, or like children lost in the woods."

      That song sung blue (Neil Diamond's phrase) is about depression, not political Democrats.

      Delete
    3. Do children lost in the woods behave like people clinging to rafts? I don't think so.

      Delete
    4. Has anyone ever asked Trump if he's been approached by a woman in a zipless fuck situation -- or grabbed even -- which is what everyone is accusing him of doing? His answer of course would be yes.

      Delete
    5. 12:11, getting a little horny for that spray tanned organge ass?

      Delete
    6. Trump claimed that he was approached by various famous women, including Madonna. The women themselves said that was a bunch of lies. Several said they had never met Trump.

      Delete
    7. trump literally stalked Princess Diana, and then boasted that he could have nailed her.

      Delete
    8. "The women themselves said that was a bunch of lies. Several said they had never met Trump."

      You think anyone now would admit that they wanted Trump back then? And you know women did.

      Come on.

      Delete
    9. Stormy wanted to be on the Apprentice. Melania wanted to be a citizen. Ivana wanted to be a businesswoman and run a casino. Marla wanted to replace Ivana. None of these women wanted a philandering slob like Trump. He had to make up stories about women who wanted him. Yes, that’s sad but Trump didn’t treat women with warmth or affection or respect.

      Delete
  7. Here is some more from Trump's deposition, in which he directly contradicts what he told Billy Bush:

    Q. Have you ever kissed a woman without her consent?
    A. Well, I don't -- I can't think of any
    complaints.· But no. I mean, I don't think so.
    I think it's an inappropriate question, but I don't think so.
    Q. Have you ever touched a woman on her
    breast or her buttocks or any other sexual part
    without her consent?
    THE WITNESS: Well, I will tell you no,
    but you may have some people like your client
    that lie.

    BY MS. KAPLAN:
    Q. Have you ever pressured a woman to engage
    in sex with you?
    A. The answer is no. But you may have some
    people like your client who are willing to lie...

    ReplyDelete
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    1. No one gets the fact that he wasn't being serious on that tape? I mean, come on. He thinks he's Howard Stern.

      Are you people here for real? And I hate Trump!

      Delete
    2. It is mind-reading to pretend you know whether he was being serious or not. That's why you have to look at his other behavior. Ivana, in her book written after their divorce, accused Trump of raping her. Stormy Daniels says she went into the bathroom and came out to find Trump sitting naked on the bed. She says she went along with the sex to avoid a confrontation with him. And then there are the numerous other accusations of being grabbed in a public place and kissed (women refer to it as Trump shoving his tongue down their throats) and other accusations of rape and grabbing (described as painful). In that larger context, his remarks seem likely to be serious boasting.

      And then you have to consider the fact that Trump has no sense of humor in general, and certainly no sense of humor about himself. He doesn't make jokes, and not that kind of joke. His jokes are more likely to be put-downs of other people.

      Yes, powerful, wealthy, famous men can come to believe they can do whatever they want. That doesn't make it right. That's why we are having this trial.

      Delete
    3. Let’s see, 12:13. Somerby’s assertion is that Trump is deranged, like, he really believed he won the election, so you can’t call him a liar. Going with this idea, perhaps Trump deluded himself into thinking it was ok to grab women by the genitals, and then did it.

      Delete
    4. What other accusations of rape or "pussy grabbing" have there been of Trump? Few if any.

      And do you honestly believe Carroll's bit about "Indiana" and how she was raised 50 years earlier? A tough NYC advice columnist about sex and relationships? And those tears?

      Come on. And Trump can be kind of funny sometimes too. I hate the guy, but he can often be quite humorous in a smart-ass way.

      Delete
    5. Few? How many is just enough?

      Delete
    6. 1:40: shall we see what the jury thinks?

      Delete
    7. Even Bill Barr joked that Trump hadn't committed treason. Barr can be quite the cut-up, when he wants to be.
      And I don't even like Barr.

      Delete
    8. This trial is about rape and defamation not treason.

      Delete
    9. My comment was about joking in politics, not a trial in court.

      Delete
  8. "To us, they seem like children lost in the woods, naked and afraid."

    Naked and Afraid is a reality TV show where they put a couple with survival skills into the woods alone and expect them to get to a pick-up points some days later. Then they receive a score for their efforts.

    This has nothing to do with children. It is also questionable how "afraid" they might be when they have a camera operator filming them and a production crew that can pull them out at any time.

    Somerby grabs phrases because of the individual words in them, not the overall meaning. Why did he grab the word "naked" today? Does Somerby perhaps feel like he is watching Trump scramble to survive his own bad behavior?

    ReplyDelete
  9. "It didn't seem to occur to the Morning Joe gang that, when people refuse to vote the blue way, some of those voters are refusing became of their loathing for them."

    This is enormously silly. Does Somerby really think that voters cannot tell the difference between candidates and talks show hosts?

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    1. Well, at least here Bob is admitted that the right mindset doesn’t have much to do with anything except hatred.,

      Delete
    2. Reasonable people are often offended at the egotistical self-righteousness of too many progressives now. So yes, it is a turn off.

      Stridency and blind unreasonableness is INDEED a turn off. I know many liberals who can't stand all of the name-calling on MSNBC now, and the constant white-bashing and kneejerk cartoonishness. I can only imagine how others must feel.

      And look at their declining ratings. That's proof. Also, how come no one on MSNBC ever DISAGREES with anyone on there? It's a big echo chamber of righteousness all the time.

      Delete
    3. "echo chambers" is why they're losing viewers.
      People don't want to hear people who agree with them. If they did, Facebook's business model would have bankrupted themselves years ago.

      Delete
    4. Fox News is proof that Republicans hate echo chambers.

      Hahahahahaha….sorry, I cracked myself up.

      Delete
    5. Shows where people shout at each other do not lead to understanding of anything. A panel where each guest has some specific expertise to contribute is helpful to viewers.

      The type of show where people talk over each other and insult each other was the main format of the right wing. That kind of conflict may be entertaining but it isn't informative. I get it that you are mourning Limbaugh, but listening to people argue is annoying to those of us who don't need to see aggressions acted out on TV and might actually want to learn something about a topic.

      Delete
  10. Nicolle Wallace says some important things in the transcript of her show. I don't think Somerby was really listening to her at all.

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    1. Apparently she didn't listen too closely to the original tape. Besides Bob here, I don't think most people did.

      Delete
    2. You know what, 12:37? The jury gets to decide this case. Let’s see what they think.

      Delete
  11. Republicans should support statehood for Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Again, the key takeaway here is that Bob makes no attempt to contextualize what Trump had said, as he often has in recent years with Trump’s garbage. He just tries to brazen out a silly claim that Trump didn’t say what he obviously did say. And Nicolle Wallace? She’s just not his type.,

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    1. Trump never said he grabs women by the pussy.

      How many women have accused him of doing so? You'd think there'd be lots if so.

      Look, I hate Trump. But let's be accurate here, ok? I like how Bob is trying to be.

      Delete
    2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations

      Delete
    3. 12:38 its unclear if your straw man fallacy is due to you genuinely suffering from excessive literalism or bad faith arguing; Trump, in the deposition, was claiming that people are ok with sexual assault if it’s committed by a “star”, and directly proceeded to clarify that he was in fact such a “star”.

      If you watch the tape, Trump was serious, not joking, which is unsurprising given the context of a legal deposition.

      Delete
    4. "Trump, in the deposition, was claiming that people are ok with sexual assault if it’s committed by a “star”, and directly proceeded to clarify that he was in fact such a “star”."

      Trump never said they were ok with sexual assault. People are putting words in his mouth. He said women let rich men do it. Which means CONSENT.

      Get it? Big difference, and that was his point. They "let you do it." And that's not even him "admitting" that he does it, which he never did in that tape.

      Bob's right. The tape does not say what people think it does. Or want it to say.

      Delete
    5. No, letting a man do something is not consent.

      Delete
  13. “It didn't seem to occur to the Morning Joe gang that, when people refuse to vote the blue way, some of those voters are refusing became of their loathing for them. “

    I don’t see any loathing of voters from anything Somerby quotes from Morning Joe or Nicolle Wallace.

    While Republicans go around calling Democrats and liberals pedophiles, the MSNBC hosts are talking about the behavior of one man, Donald Trump. It doesn’t seem to be a reciprocal loathing here.

    Ultimately, the important question is what did the jury think Trump meant? He didn’t testify, so they are left to interpret, possibly in ways that are quite similar to Wallace.

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    1. MSNBC went through a period a while back where they called everyone a pedophile. Bob in fact wrote about it here -- and to much condemnation.

      Now they call everyone a "racist."

      Delete
    2. 12:22, I think you're a little confused. You're thinking of RT. (Russian Television)

      Delete
    3. Bob constantly mentioned how Laurence O'Donnell was always calling Judge Roy Moore and others "a pedophile," for one. Which he wasn't.

      Nor was Jeffrey Epstein, which Bob was brave enough to mention once or twice as well.

      Delete
    4. 12:32: Moore was accused of sexual misconduct with an underage girl. A number of prominent people called him a pedophile.

      Epstein was also accused of sexually abusing 14 year old girls.

      You did not provide a link to a Somerby post, but more than that, you have only suggested that two specific people were called pedophiles who were credibly accused of sexual misconduct. Meanwhile, my assertion stands, that Republicans are calling ALL liberals pedophiles.

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    5. Anyone who thinks calling Republicans "racists" will shame them into ceasing their minority voter suppression tactics, woefully misunderstands how Republicans think.

      Delete
    6. 1:31 if calling out racist Republicans has no impact on them, why do they whine so much about it?

      Somerby fanboys are the biggest fucking morons on the planet, with all due respect.

      Delete
    7. 1:31,
      It's part of their victimization fetish.
      The Right are the "snowflakes" they warned us about.

      Delete
    8. "12:32: Moore was accused of sexual misconduct with an underage girl. A number of prominent people called him a pedophile.

      Epstein was also accused of sexually abusing 14 year old girls."

      That's not pedophilia. O'Donnell also said over and over that there were something like "nine accusers" when it was more like two. Bob mentioned that as well, and to great hatred here.

      And actually, I think the Epstein victims were older. The one woman had to admit that she was wrong about her age at the time when faced with written proof. It was more like 16 or 17.

      Delete
    9. In Epstein’s case it was human trafficking. You can quibble over the age at which underage girls are not children but they are still against the law. When pedophiles invented a new word to disguise what they were doing, it didn’t fool anyone.

      Delete
    10. No, there were more than 2.

      Delete
    11. There was the one he rolled around on a blanket with in their underwear (who was 14) and the one whose yearbook he signed, around the same age, and the 16 year old he offered a ride home to who he tried to rape (she said), and the 14-15 year old who called security because he was stalking them at he mall and they considered him icky, and the 15 year old whose school he visited so he could call her out of class in order to ask her out. Yes there were also a few 17-18 year olds (Moore was 34), but that doesn’t excuse the younger girls.

      Trying to minimize what these guys did is evil.

      Delete
  14. "Wallace even seemed to say that Trump wasn't even denying the charges Carroll had made!"

    What does "seemed to say" mean? Did she say that or didn't she?

    Trump repeatedly denied the charges, calling them a hoax and calling Carroll a liar. I doubt Wallace "seemed to say" any such thing. But Trump declined to mount a defense. He isn't legally required to. But from Trump's deposition it should be obvious why they wouldn't let him testify in his own behalf. He accuses Kaplan of being a political operative!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Gee, another Trump post. Here at the Howler, it’s Trump Trump Trump all the time.

    I could be wrong, but there are probably a lot of stories being covered that aren’t about Trump.

    It would seem Somerby is obsessed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not with Trump, with Wallace.,

      Delete
    2. No, 11:42, his target today is Wallace. But he has written an enormous number of posts about Trump that have nothing to do with her.

      Delete
    3. I know. But we must admit (“I know it’s shitty but we can’t refuse to accept the situation” said the soldier in “Full Metal Jacket”) that Bob doesn’t care much about truth or keeping people honest, his original goal with blog. He’s driven by a hatred of left journalism, the pointy heads who made him feel picked on in College.

      Delete
    4. Bob's responding to the fact that on MSNBC it's always Trump Trump Trump.

      Delete
    5. It isn’t, 12:24. Debt ceiling…mass shootings…economy… war in Ukraine. It’s all reported on MSNBC. But it is his favorite topic, so naturally, he ignores all that.

      Delete
    6. Somerby fanboys say that MSNBC is losing viewers, has low ratings, isn’t relevant.

      Where do these morons get the courage to post their unbelievably stupid comments?

      Delete
    7. Bob’s “Trump Trump Trump” is not only a false claim he is fully aware is false, it’s also due to the fact that Trump is largely indefensible without lying and misrepresenting stuff, like today.

      Delete
  16. Somerby focuses on two MSNBC hosts who were previously Republicans and accuses them of loathing people who don’t vote blue.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Bob is the only person ANYWHERE who is actually talking about what Trump said on that tape. Trump never “admitted” to grabbing women by the pussy, he merely said that when you’re a big star they let you do things like that.

    Questions: is this true; and who else has ever accused Trump of actual rape? Or even grabbing them by the pussy?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shut up Mao.

      Delete
    2. See BusinessInsider.com The 26 Women Accusing Trump of Sexual Misconduct

      Delete
    3. Trump admits in the tape that he doesn’t wait to start kissing them:

      “I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p*ssy. You can do anything."

      That was also quoted in the deposition. The jury will have to decide if that was merely locker room talk.

      Delete
    4. Of course it's true, it's been true for millions of years, ever since the Hollywood Walk of Fame got it's first star. Chickenshit looked a little rancid in that deposition video though.

      Delete
    5. Trump admits to kissing them --which was just an obvious jokey riff on his part. But he never said he "grabbed 'em by the pussy." He said they LET you do that when you're a star.

      How many women have accused him of grabbing them by the pussy? Besides Carroll, I'm not aware of any.

      Delete
    6. Thieves believe that everyone steals. Liars believe that everyone lies. Rapists believe that everyone rapes (or would if they could). Weinstein got caught. Epstein got caught. Cosby got caught.

      In past times, a man who raped a woman would be lynched by his community. Women were protected by the male members of their families. A man who seduced a woman would be forced to marry her.

      Delete
    7. @12:28 he also admits to this:

      "I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it.

      Unknown: Whoa.

      Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married.

      Unknown: That’s huge news.

      Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.

      She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —

      I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look."

      But in his deposition he says:

      " Q. Have you ever kissed a woman without her consent?
      A. Well, I don't -- I can't think of any
      complaints.· But no. I mean, I don't think so.
      I think it's an inappropriate question, but I don't think so.
      Q. Have you ever touched a woman on her
      breast or her buttocks or any other sexual part
      without her consent?
      THE WITNESS: Well, I will tell you no,
      but you may have some people like your client
      that lie.
      BY MS. KAPLAN:
      Q. Have you ever pressured a woman to engage
      in sex with you?
      A. The answer is no. But you may have some
      people like your client who are willing to lie.

      The first excerpt shows his candid remarks to a friend. The second excerpt shows Trump trying to give answers that will get him out of trouble. Which do you think are more honest?

      Do men engage in "jokey riffs" about assaulting women? If you watch the video with Billy Bush and notice the way the actress walks off with them, they have their hands on her. She doesn't seem to object, but that makes a mockery of Trump's deposition statement that he doesn't fondle women.

      Delete
    8. I’m more than shocked by the blatant vulgarity in some of these posts.

      The least anonynomices could do is to use the French term for the p-word, which is “pousai”.

      Delete
    9. Yes, this is all such a big joke. This man is the former president and he was going around saying and doing this stuff.

      Delete
    10. Was Trump joking during his deposition, or with Billy Bush, 12:28? Somerby keeps saying he’s deranged, so what should anyone believe, you included?

      Delete
    11. Trump's joke about how he had a better healthcare program than Obama, still cracks me up.

      Delete
    12. "If you watch the video with Billy Bush and notice the way the actress walks off with them, they have their hands on her. She doesn't seem to object, but that makes a mockery of Trump's deposition statement that he doesn't fondle women."

      Where are they fondling her? Gimme a break.

      And Trump was clearly being smart-ass jocular in that tape.

      Trump's bad enough -- why all the need to invent more? That's my gripe with MSNBC.

      Delete
    13. Because you keep normalizing Trump and calling him jocular.

      Delete
    14. 6:24,
      The U.S. killed Osama bin Laden for pulling an April Fool's prank on the U.S. in the month of September. And that isn't even a crime.

      Delete
  18. Defund the Supreme Court.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Take it up with the Federalist Society.

      Delete
    2. anon 11:53, you've repeated this call to defund the Supreme Court numerous times, somewhat annoyingly. Because of your harping on this so much, and in order to shut you up, I'm going to defund the Supreme Court, next week. I hope that makes you happy.

      Delete
    3. It ought to be defunded, at least until we find out what the hell is going on.

      Delete
    4. Thank you, AC/MA.

      Delete
    5. AC/ MA,
      While you're at it, please make all elections publicly funded.
      Thanks in advance.

      Delete
    6. anon 1:39 I'll try, but that's a big ask.

      Delete
    7. AC/ MA,
      Not as big an ask as locating the Republican voter who isn't a bigot.

      Delete
  19. We live in a giant spiral galaxy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. anon 4:25, so true. What you say, and in such a succinct manner, really puts things in the proper perspective.

      Delete