TWO SILOS: When is a salad more like a meringue?

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2024

Enlightenment values must die: Candidate Trump was waxing poetic out on the campaign trail.

It happened yesterday, in Detroit. As far as we know, no one has yet discerned what he may have been talking about in the highlighted passages shown below.

As anyone can see from the videotape, his rumination proceeded as shown. For the record, and in full fairness, the candidate seemed to mean "rockets" when he referred to "engines:"

TRUMP (10/10/24): And then all of a sudden, you hear that [manufacturers are] leaving Milwaukee, or they’re leaving wherever they may be located. It’s very sad to see it. And it’s so simple. 

I mean, you know, this isn’t like Elon with his rocket ships that land within twelve inches on the moon where they wanted to land. Or he gets the engines back. That was the first I realized. I said, “Who the hell did that?” I saw engines about three, four years ago. These things were coming—cylinders, no wings, no nothing. And they’re coming down very slowly, landing on a raft in the middle of the ocean someplace with a circle. Boom.

Reminded me of the Biden circles that he used to have, right? He’d have eight circles, and he couldn’t fill them up. But then I heard he beat us with the popular vote. I don’t know. I don’t know. Couldn’t fill up the eight circles. 

I always loved those circles. They were so beautiful. They were so beautiful to look at. In fact, the person that did them—that was the best thing about his—the level of that circle was great. But they couldn’t get people, so they used to have the press stand in those circles because they couldn’t get the people. 

Then I heard we lost. Oh, we lost. No, we’re never gonna let that happen again. But we’ve been abused by other countries. We’ve been abused by our own politicians, really, more than other countries.

So spoke the major party nominee who may well win this race.

As far as we know, no one has figured out what those "eight circles" were. With that, we offer an instant warning:

Below, we'll show you the previous inexplicable comment by Trump which was cited on the front page of Monday's New York Times. In that case, it was obvious, and a matter of record, what the candidate was talking about—except atop the front page of Blue America's paper of record.

That said, what was the candidate talking about yesterday in Detroit? We don't have the slightest idea at this time! Then too, and in a slightly similar vein, there was the front-page "Political Memo" about Candidate Harris which we cited at the start of the week. 

As we noted on Monday, the lengthy, front page political memo was written by Rebecca Davis O'Brien. O'Brien is a Harvard graduate—and as we noted on Monday, we tended to agree with her basic points.

On the whole, we agreed with her basic points—but then, she kept on going! Right at the end of paragraph 5, O'Brien was now saying this:

POLITICAL MEMO
Harris Has a Lot of Strengths. Giving Interviews Isn’t One of Them.

[...]

In her dizzying ascent to the top of the Democratic ticket, Ms. Harris has proved to be a disciplined and effective debater and a tireless campaigner, nimble and energetic in rallies. But one-on-one televised interviews with journalists have long been a weakness in her political arsenal. She often winds her way slowly toward an answer, leaning on jargon and rehearsed turns of phrase, using language that is sometimes derided as “word salad” but might be better described as a meringue.

According to this lengthy front-page memo, Candidate Harris is sometimes derided for her "word salad." But according to the New York Times, the alleged "word salad" in question is really more like "a meringue!"

Question! Did anyone reading this lengthy memo have any idea what that meant? As published, the memo makes no attempt to explain. 

Perhaps O'Brien wrote it that way, or perhaps the published form of her memo was the work of some unnamed editor. But in the face of such manifestations, we recall the prophetic words of Hector, son of King Priam, as recorded at the dawn of the West, way back in the Iliad:

Sacred Troy must die.

Sacred Troy must die, the noble prince told his generous wife. As every Greek citizen knew for generations after that, his statement proved to be prophetic.

For ourselves, we were somewhat puzzled by O'Brien's lengthy memo. We agreed with her basic assessments, but the memo spun downhill from there.

In fairness, part of the word salad v. meringue critique was perfectly accurate. At that time, Candidate Harris was in fact being derided—was being mocked and derided around the clock—for her alleged "word salad."

Around the clock, from morning till night, she was being derided in that specific way on the Fox News Channel. As published, O'Brien's laborious memo doesn't cite that high-profile source of derision—but it soon echoed what was occurring on Fox without ever citing a source:

These days, when Ms. Harris gives an interview, she hews to a set of well-rehearsed talking points, at times swimming in a sea of excess verbiage. Her first answer is often the most unsteady, a discursive journey to the point at hand. Like all politicians, she sometimes answers the question she would prefer to address, rather than the one actually asked of her—but not always artfully.

She tends to muddy clear ideas with words or phrases that do not have a precise meaning. On Wednesday night, in response to a question about how the federal government could encourage the building of affordable housing despite stringent local regulations, she used the word “holistic” three times in the space of one long sentence:

“For example, some of the work is going to be through what we do in terms of giving benefits and assistance to state and local governments around transit dollars, and looking holistically at the connection between that and housing, and looking holistically at the incentives we in the federal government can create for local and state governments to actually engage in planning in a holistic manner that includes prioritizing affordable housing for working people.”

Shocking, isn't it? As part of the meringue which wasn't really a salad, Candidate Harris had used "holistic" three separate times "in the space of one long sentence!"

In our view, that presentation by Harris wasn't the most perfectly crafted statement we'd ever seen a candidate make.  At the same time, and under the circumstances, we wouldn't necessarily say that this merited front-page treatment in the Times—and for the record, this:

At that time, the monkeys on the Fox News Channel were playing the tape of that very same statement pretty much around the clock. They were playing tape of that very statement as part of their relentless derision campaign. 

Was O'Brien taking dictation from this "cable news" channel? Frankly, we began to wonder—and then, continuing directly, her memo moved on to this:

She relies on rhetorical touchstones: In many ways. Let’s be clear. And when she is asked about her economic agenda, in particular, she tends to begin with a familiar windup: I grew up in a middle-class family.

“I think we can’t and we shouldn’t aspire to have an economy that just allows people to get by,” she said on Wednesday night. “People want to do more than just get by. They want to get ahead. And I come from the middle class.”

Seriously? During her interviews, Harris employs such locutions as In many ways and even Let’s be clear? Can any serious person really explain how this could be part of any journalistic analysis, let alone a lengthy analysis on the front page of Blue America's paper of record?

We said we found this memo to be especially strange "under the circumstances." The principal circumstance to which we refer is the circumstance in which Harris is running against Candidate Donald J. Trump, whose bizarre behaviors, in his interviews and in his speeches, had gone largely unexamined at that time within this famous newspaper.

Now, Candidate Harris was being frisked within an inch of her life! We'll admit that we found ourselves asking such questions as these:

Did it really make sense to give such prominence to this lengthy memo so late in this White House campaign? 

Would it have been possible to publish a pair of his-and-her memos? His-and-her memos which examined the interview styles of each of the two nominees?

We'll admit that we wondered about such things. Having made that admission, we must quickly add this:

Whether about Candidate Harris or Candidate Trump, there is no excuse for publishing a murky journalistic stew which contrasts an alleged "word salad" with an unexplained "meringue." The American discourse has died on the vine when we the people are fed such gruel by an experienced, highly "educated" journalist (or by her editor) at our nation's most famous newspaper.

When is a salad more like a meringue? According to our best reckoning, only The Shadow knows! 

In fairness, the Times proceeded to drop a stand-alone bomb on Candidate Trump this Monday morning. In print editions, the profile appeared atop the front page. It appeared beneath this headline:

Trump’s Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Age

Coming amazingly late in the game, this was a highly unflattering profile of the candidate's speeches. In our view, it adopted a framework we'd describe as tapioca, even as it touched upon a decade of highly unusual conduct:

As you can see in the headline, this profile of Candidate Trump adopted the framework of advanced age. Candidate Trump may be in a familiar type of decline, like Candidate Biden before him. 

In full fairness, it may be true! It may be true that Candidate Trump is experiencing some sort of age-related cognitive decline.

That said, the larger problem with his behavior has long preceded some such possible state of affairs. It involves the possible sociopathy first warned against, in great volume and in great detail, back in 2017.

This possible sociopathy has manifested itself through a decade of crazy factual claims, accompanied by an angry attraction to violence and a highly unusual apparent disregard for standard democratic norms: 

Also, through a decade of false or unsupported factual claims—highly inflammatory factual claims which the candidate has kept repeating in the face of relentless correction.

The Times has largely chosen to avoid establishing this major anomaly as a fundamental news topic.  When it finally offered Monday's report, it took the safest approach to establishing a framework, focusing on what Candidate Trump has perhaps been like "lately."

As he ages, is this candidate experiencing some sort of cognitive decline? That's certainly possible. But in 2017, dozens of medical and psychological specialists described his psychological condition as "dangerous"—and they explicitly said that his apparent clinical disorders would only get worse.

From the start, the New York Times has taken a dive on that possibility and on those behaviors. Now, it fills its front page with lengthy analyses in which we learn that the other candidate uses such terms as "Let’s be clear" when she sits for an interview. She does it all the time!

A dirty little secret seems to be lurking here. That secret involves a basic question about human intellectual and moral capability. 

Are we humans up to the task of playing this game? In the end, are we wired for the challenging task of maintaining Enlightenment values?

If you've watched the Fox News Channel lately, you may be starting to see the shape of an answer to that question. 

That said, the New York Times has decided that what happens on the Fox News Channel will stay on the Fox News Channel.  The spotless minds of Times subscribers won't be encumbered with any of that. 

(For better or worse, the corporate suits at MSNBC have made the same decision.)

We'll set aside for another day the early example in Monday's report which the Times somehow failed to fact-check. For now, we'll leave you with this:

The New York Times is a newspaper which is willing to let us know when an alleged word salad is actually more like a meringue. It's a paper which almost seems to be taking dictation from Fox without ever identifying the detractors to whom it alludes—which actually goes to its front page to tell us that one nominee is inclined to say such things as these:

In many ways. Let’s be clear.

One of the nominees does that! The other nominee has been parading about bare naked for years, repeating highly inflammatory claims in the face of endless correction, with his endless array of crazy statements generally going unmentioned.

Sacred Troy must die, Hector prophetically said. In the face of to the so-called "democratization of media"—as we see what our tribe's Harvard grads are actually like—we can't help asking if that's also true of "our democracy," imperfect as it has been.

Putin says we aren't going to make it. There's no word salad there.

He's a classic pre-Enlightenment strongman. Could it be that this strongman is right?


54 comments:

  1. Somerby is no clearer than Trump when he talks about sacred Troy. Those of us who have heard him ramble about Troy for decades may recognize his reference, but that is not what Trump is doing now. Further, several of us here have complained about Somerby's highly personal references to obscure things found only in his own head, because they do not communicate well.

    A speech is a public communication (so is a blog). It is not a journal or diary where a person can muse and engage in private, personal stream-of-consciousness rambling. Trump is making a case for why he should be elected again. But he treats his appearances as if they are personal exhibitions, almost performance art, with meanings that only he can grasp because he has made no effort to fill in the listeners. Somerby does that too, a lot, but he used to be better than he is now.

    The deterioration with age is the concerning part. So is this self-indulgence in the face of electoral urgency. Trump is losing in the polls yet he behaves in this odd way that cannot do anything to help his election chances. That makes no sense at all. Somerby should understand the urgency of this election to our country's prosperity, yet he continues to launch unfair criticisms against Harris while advancing the right's talking points -- but even worse, he ignores the hugely important issues of this election in order to focus on trivialities.

    No one gets what Somerby means about sacred Troy, any more than they get what Trump is talking about (despite attempts to guess that have no way of confirming their truth). To his credit, Somerby is not advancing FEMA disinformation, but neither is he debunking any of it.

    Kamala Harris is not dispensing word salad or meringue. Trump is the person doing that. Trump is not part of sacred Troy -- he is one of the Greeks on the beach. Calling for the death of Democrats is not a good look, even for someone as batshit as Somerby has become.

    Maybe Somerby thinks of himself like Hamlet, pretending madness in order to say things he feels uncomfortable saying outright. No one cares enough, at this point, to wonder why he is acting like such an asshole at a crucial point in our political life. It is time for his loved ones to gently detach his hands from his keyboard and lead him to an assisted living facility. The same is true of Trump, except he is more likely to be put on house arrest or a minimal security prison. These musings are not helping anyone, not even the authors themselves. Trump is around the bend, and Somerby is leading the way with a soggy brain that cannot recognize a cogent sentence unless someone else has written it.

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  2. "Putin says we aren't going to make it. There's no word salad there.

    He's a classic pre-Enlightenment strongman. Could it be that this strongman is right?"

    Maybe Somerby should encourage Trump to call Putin up and ask him about it.

    Somerby is using veiled language, as usual, but today it sounds like he is calling for the overthrow of our country (Troy, which although sacred must die, Somerby says). Harris is the only one making sense at her rallies and in her now numerous interviews. Somerby is sick. If anyone cares about him, they should be helping him, not leaving him to make such a fool of himself daily.

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    1. "Troy, which although sacred must die, Somerby says."

      Somerby does not say this, Hector does. Somerby quotes and adverts to it. And when Hector speaks this, he is saying it is fated to happen, not that it should.

      Physician, heal thyself.

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    2. He also wonders if our democracy will die. The fall of Troy presumably makes him think about this. Does he think this will happen because Trump might win? Do you agree with this scenario, Hector?

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    3. Prescience is not among my many gifts.

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    4. The Enlightenment was in 1685. It is already dead and gone. Today we have a modern democracy and modern values that have superseded the Enlightenment (which was participated in by elites in that time period). Today we have a popular culture that transmits values to people. They are perhaps an extenson of Enlightenment thinking but also uniquely different and appropriate for our current culture. This doom and gloom of Somerby's about Troy and 1685 is ridiculous and inappropriate, but it does give him something to threaten and hand-wave about, for those who do not realize that the Enlightenment wasn't that wonderful and is no longer what we are living in.

      Trump is a horrible person by anyone's values. People who vote for him don't want good values, they want the illusion of strength and control. Trump cannot give anyone that, not even himself. That is sad, but it is also why our society will suffer if he is elected. It is time for voters to grow up, take a real look at the candidates, and do what is right for our people.

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    5. "Prescience is not among my many gifts."

      Nor is humility, apparently.

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  3. This is the eight circles reference:

    http://www.apdi.info/trump-heading-jersey-shore-rally-mega-crowd-weekend-110127648.html

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    1. In other words - during Covid, Biden's crowds were so empty it was only 8 circles (people sitting in socially-distanced circles).

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    2. It is helpful if you quote the relevant part:

      "Trump campaign senior adviser Jason Miller said the “tens of thousands” expected attendees would be a notable contrast to the number that typically show up for President Joe Biden’s political events, which Miller described as being only “eight circles, two of which are empty.”

      A person who is speaking to others must keep in mind their own message (what they want to say) along with what listeners will understand (their frame of reference). That includes such questions as "what do they already know" and "what will this mean to them". You adjust your own communication to the understanding of listeners by filling in contextand explaining things they are unlikely to already know. This process of evaluation takes place in the frontal lobes. Unfortunately, this is the area that shrinks in old age, that is damaged with diseases such as certain types of dementia, Parkinsons, and brain injury.

      Trump obviously cannot do this at all. It requires an act of imagination about what is in the minds of others, that Trump cannot do. It may be that he has never had much practice thinking about others, given his narcissism, or it may just be related to encroaching dementia. But if he tells a story about 8 rings and cannot understand that his audience hasn't heard that story and won't know what he means, then he is failing to communicate by taking other people's perspectives. That shows impairment, since most normal people do this automatically when telling stories and speaking, and especially teaching. Only young children do not do this routinely while speaking.

      Even if he had a valid reference from something Miller said, he is still showing signs of dementia when he fails to provide the context to understand his references.

      Somerby is doing this too -- failing to communicate by grabbing obscure references that he doesn't explain to his audience. It is a symptom, not a charming idiosyncracy. It is a cause for concern and it sounds crazy because it IS abnormal and reflects frontal lobe malfunctioning that is problematic given that judgment of various types also resides in that brain area. Trump needs treatment, not election to a demanding job in which the nation depends on his competence. Trump is mentally incompetent.

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    3. Totally! I just wanted Somberby to know I figured out what those "eight circles" were.

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    4. Girlfriend be gaslighting hard this morning!

      "It is a symptom, not a charming idiosyncracy. It is a cause for concern and it sounds crazy because it IS abnormal and reflects frontal lobe malfunctioning that is problematic given that judgment of various types also resides in that brain area. Trump needs treatment, not election to a demanding job in which the nation depends on his competence. Trump is mentally incompetent."

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    5. To gaslight is to try to convince a person that what they know to be false is true.

      The paragraph above may be overdone, but the diagnosis of its last sentence rings true.

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  4. Perhaps Somerby is thinking that if he writes his own word salad here (and yet is accepted as normal) and Harris is accused of word salad (when she has not spoken anything like it), then Trump's actual word salad might pass for normal, especially among his followers. This may all just be part of sane-washing Trump.

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    1. So spot on. I think you should write this up and submit it to the editors of the Journal of Post-Modern Gibberish.

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    2. anon 11:36, you need a good sane washing yourself.

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    3. So, you think Trump makes sense? He doesn’t.

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    4. It's possible for Trump not to make sense, and 11:26 not to make sense, both at the same time.

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    5. But, unless 11:26 is also offering Grade A bigotry, no Republican will vote for them for any political office.
      Don't blame me. I don't make the rules. I just notice them.

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  5. SpaceX rockets are powered by fully reusable engines called Raptors, which are circular in shape. For each launch, over 30 Raptors are arranged in a circular pattern at the rocket’s base, forming a circle of circles when viewed from below.

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  6. Why are Harris's interviews being described using food analogies? It seems inappropriate and vaguely sexist.

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    1. Why has it taken so long to call Trump’s talks word salad?

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    2. Maybe you should have set your alarm clock.

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    3. When you din’t understand, just keep your mouth shut Cecelia.

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    4. Anonymouse 5:03pm, perhaps you should walk that out as an example. .

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    5. Meanwhile, Republicans have nominated a rapist to be their Presidential nominee, yet again.
      You can't make this stuff up.

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  7. I get the meringue metaphor--but it's stupid and has no place in a journalistic report. A salad is made up of tiny fragments thrown together without order or coherence. A meringue has the appearance of orderly structure but it is mostly air, an empty confection.

    Too clever by more than half.

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    1. I’d typify Trump’s riffs as being what you’d get if Don Rickles and George Burns had a baby.

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    2. The above is from me. I guess I hit something.

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    3. Gracie Allen more like.

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    4. Anonymouse 5:01pm, no, she was endearing.

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    5. Anonymouse 5:13pm, as crazy as a fox.

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    6. "I’d typify Trump’s riffs as being what you’d get if Don Rickles and George Burns had a baby"

      How about Don Rickles and Johnny Friendly?

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    7. Burns and Allen comedy doesn't translate - it may have been funny in the 50's but not today.

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    8. I find this movie clip with Gracie Allen and Eleanor Powell utterly charming. Of course I have old fashioned tastes. Can some younger folks please share their reaction?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN3aETNaThI&ab_channel=AirborneSergeant

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    9. Ditsy women are not funny these days.

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    10. Trump is like a cross between a rapist and Steven Miller.

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    11. Gracie's lamb chop joke is a favorite of mine.

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  8. Harris would have done no interviews at all this week if she could have. She only did high-profile but friendly interviews this week because of her polling. (It can't be comfortable to be neck and neck with Trump.) And those interviews didn't go super well. So her campaign and the people influencing it will spend this weekend planning what the next moves will be. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do. They have so little to work with when it comes to Harris. She is a really poor communicator which must hamstring them awfully. It's kind of like Sarah Palin all over again. It's one hell of a political pickle.

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    1. Your reality is so different than everyone else’s.

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    2. Absolutely! Partisan media sources are not going to tell you the truth about this.

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    3. Right-wingers would rather not point out that Harris gave high profile interviews this week, but they do so begrudgingly because everyone can see they were 100% wrong (feature, not bug) about her refusing to give interviews.

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  9. Today in Colorado, Trump promised to wield the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 against migrants. It's the same act that was used to justify imprisonment of Japanese-Americans during World War Two.

    He further railed against "the enemy from within" and "all the scum we have to deal with that hates our country."

    There's no more room to pretend he's not a fascist.

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    1. And earlier he promised that he would become a dictator who would initiate a bloodbath and he said Nazis were "very fine people". So I agree with you we should be very worried about a fascist takeover. Very worried.

      After what he said today in Colorado, there's truly no more room to pretend Trump is not a fascist.

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    2. It's scary to think about how many Japanese Trump, a convicted felon who organized a coup that tried to overthrow the government, will actually kill.

      I'm so scared just thinking about it.

      After what he said in Colorado, I can only look at Trump as dangerous and immoral, which undermines his credibility.

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    3. 5:50, but I am so worried about those migrant workers stealing my dog and eating him. I don't know what to do. What do you suggest, Boris?

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    4. A vote for Harris is a vote against the bloody execution of Japanese people at the hands of a convicted felon.
      He said so in Colorado.

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    5. Trump will collude with Putin to rape Japanese-Americans and commit felonies against pornstars in a fascist bloodbath takeover of the government. He detailed his plans recently in Colorado. I don't know about you but to me that's the reason to vote for Harris.

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    6. Last night in Colorado Trump pledged to falsify Japanese American business rape records to hide payments he made to Putin's pornstar campaign manager who held meetings in Trump Tower that included plans to email Hillary Clinton's polling data to a Russian bank where hackers were engineering a fascist bloodbath to overthrow a duly elected certified result.

      So Harris should be voted for, seems like.

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    7. 9:29,
      Once the mainstream media made the collective decision to disappear the bigotry of Republican voters as the reason Trump won the 2016 Presidential election, stories like Russiagate were inevitable.

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