CONWAYISM AND BABEL: On Day Two, Cooper got it right!


Part 4—Yesterday's efforts by Todd:
To appearances, Conwayism, which leads us to Babel, can almost look like a form of mental illness.

Chuck Todd confronted the strange condition on yesterday's Meet the Press. For the full transcript, click here.

Back in October, Todd had weirdly punched through a journalistic fourth wall. In decidedly non-journalistic fashion, he'd weirdly vouched for Kellyanne Conway, weirdly declaring that she "is a very good person."

For background, just click here.

Yesterday, that "very good person" was accusing Todd, again and again, of all sorts of deliberate misconduct. Mainly, though, the very good person was refusing to answer a fairly basic question.

At the top of yesterday's program, Todd played tape of Trump press secretary Sean Spicer making the following statement about the Trump inauguration:

"This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe."

Todd then showed several photographs—photos which seemed to show that Spicer's statement was wrong, at least in the "in person" part. He showed the pair of photographs two separate times.

Based on the photos which Todd displayed, it seemed fairly clear that Obama's 2009 inauguration had been watched, in person, by a much larger crowd. On this basis, Todd kept asking Conway why Spicer had made his claim, which Todd said was "provably false."

Again and again and again and again, Conway refused to answer.

Todd kept asking; Conway kept ducking. For the record, here's the first way Todd asked this basic question:
TODD (1/22/17): And joining me now is the counselor to President Trump, Kellyanne Conway.

Ms. Conway, welcome to the White House North Lawn, which will become a familiar place for you, I think. Let me begin with this question:

The presidency is about choices, so I'm curious why President Trump chose yesterday to send out his press secretary to essentially litigate a provable falsehood when it comes to a small and petty thing like inaugural crowd size.

I guess my question to you is, Why do that?
To watch the whole interview, click here.

In our view, Todd has already made several journalistic mistakes. Somewhat weirdly, he has also welcomed Conway to the White House, a somewhat weird piece of behavior Conway chose not to exploit.

That said, Todd had asked Conway a rather basic question. He'd said that Spicer's claim about crowd size was "provably false." Assuming facts not in evidence, he'd then asked Conway why Trump told Spicer to make the false claim.

Despite a bit of embroidery, Todd's question was fairly clear. For the record, this was the first, rambling example of Conway's refusal to answer:
CONWAY (continuing directly): Chuck, the president did many things yesterday and the day before that are very meaningful to America. He signed executive orders to stop Obamacare and all of its problems. Many people have lost their—millions of people have lost their insurance, their doctors, their plans.

So that stops right now. He's going to replace it with something much more free market and patient-centric in nature.

And on this matter of crowd size, I mean, for me, I think the most quantifiable points of interest for Americans should be what just happened a few months ago that brought him here, the 31 of 50 states he won, the 2600 counties, the 200 counties that went for President Obama that now went to President Trump, and the fact that 29-30 million women voted for Donald Trump for president. They should be respected. Somebody should cover their voices as well.

I'm about things that are quantifiable and important, I don't think that—I don't think ultimately presidents are judged by crowd sizes at their inauguration. I think they're judged by their accomplishments. And we know that President Obama and his accomplishments, that there's a lot of unfinished business there.

And on this matter of crowd size, I think it is, I think it is a symbol for the unfair and incomplete treatment that this president often receives. I'm very heartened to see Nielsen just came out with the ratings, 31 million people watching the inauguration. President Obama had 20.5 million watching his second inauguration four short years ago.

So we know people are also watching the inauguration on different screens and in different modes and that there was—I mean, for me, there was a prediction of a downpour of rain, I think, that deterred many people from coming.

But no question, there were hundreds of thousands of people out on the mall—
Has Trump's inauguration really been watched, "in person," by the largest crowd in history? Conway wandered the countryside, failing to answer.

So far, Conway had said nothing which spoke to Todd's actual question. Finally, Todd broke in:
TODD: All right, Kellyanne, let me stop you here because you make a very reasonable and rational case for why crowd sizes don't matter. Then explain— You did not answer the question.

Why did the president send out his press secretary, who is not just the spokesperson for Donald Trump, he could be—he is also, serves as the spokesperson for all of America at times. He speaks for all of the country at times.

Why put him out there, for the very first time, in front of that podium, to utter a provable falsehood? It's a small thing. But the first time he confronts the public, it's a falsehood?
Had Trump been watched, "in person," by the largest crowd in history? It seems quite clear that he was not—that Spicer's claim actually was "a provable falsehood."

As she wandered the countryside, Conway had failed to address this point. And as the interview continued, she refused to address this point again and again and again.

Again and again, Todd broke in on Conway's rambling remarks, reminding her, again and again, that she hadn't answered his question. By our count, he told her that she had failed to answer his question at least nine additional times.

Conway simply kept refusing to address Todd's rather basic question. As she did, she displayed a remarkable aspect of Conwayism:

The Conwayist must be willing to take offense at everything which happens around her, to the point where she may appear to be borderline mentally ill.

Conway declared herself offended by Todd again and again. Again and again, she took offense at his minor word choices, just as she'd done one week before when interviewed by Anderson Cooper.

She took offense at factual mistakes made by other journalists. She complained that Todd was being "overly dramatic."

She complained about Obamacare. She complained about "the devastation and destruction in our schools."

She complained that Todd was laughing at her. She took offense at the way Todd was referring to "our president" and "our press secretary." She complained about the way the Trump campaign had been covered by the press.

She complained about the Democrats' failure to confirm Mike Pompeo as CIA head, which was threatening "the peaceful transfer of power." She claimed that "lies have been told about [Trump's] relationship and his respect for the intelligence community."

She complained about the fact that BuzzFeed released "a dossier of junk and lies and fake news," then took offense at BuzzFeed's alleged reasons for "releas[ing] the dossier." Last week, speaking with Cooper, she had taken offense at the very use of the word "dossier," a troubling Frenchified term.

These are only some of the points concerning which Conway took offense during her endless session with Todd. Again and again and again and again, she took offense at everything around her—past, present and future.

That said, make no mistake! As she kept reacting to the latest forms of disrespect and offense, she also kept refusing to address Todd's question. Why had Spicer made a provably false statement? Again and again and again and again, Conway refused to reply.

If you watch the tape of this interview, you're seeing Full-Tilt Conwayism in action. You're also seeing a person whose partisan craziness has become so absurdly intense that she may seem to be in the grip of some form of illness.

It's a basic tenet of Conwayism! The Conwayist must truly believe, or must at least seem to believe, in her own constant sense of grievance. At all times, she must truly believe that she's being treated with disrespect. She must truly believe the relentless claims which emerge from her paranoia.

Unless we assume that she's simply being disingenuous, Kellyanne Conway doesn't seem entirely "well." This raises a basic question—how should journalists like Todd deal with Conwayism?

Last week, Cooper dealt with Conway very poorly on Day One. During a 25-minute interview, he chased her around the countryside, taking every piece of bait he was offered.

He contested her every point. Again and again and again and again, he let himself be distracted from the basic questions at hand.

On Day Two, Cooper did much better. He presented a full segment in which he calmly reviewed Conway's various bogus claims from the night before.

Yesterday, in his own Day One, Todd performed more skillfully than Cooper had done. In our view, he did make a series of minor journalistic mistakes. But rather than chase Conway around as Cooper had done, he kept returning to his one basic question:

Why had Spicer made a claim which seems to be "provably false?"

He asked the question again and again. Again and again and again and again, an angry, aggrieved, offended Conway just kept refusing to answer.

Could Kellyanne Conway be "mentally ill" in some sort of way? Or is she simply crazy?

We don't know, but people like Cooper and Todd have to learn how to deal with Conwayism. It's an offshoot of Trumpism which leads us directly to Babel.

Yesterday, Conway may have seemed borderline nuts. She took offense, again and again, at virtually everything Todd said and did. Scarily, she actually seemed to believe the ridiculous things she kept saying.

She's been this way for decades now. The press corps, and the liberal world, have persistently averted their gaze from Conway, and from a host of other ridiculous people just like her.

As recently as last October, Todd was reacting to this Babel by calling Conway "a very good person." This is one of the crazy ways we got to our current place.


  1. It might be that journalists should give Conway a quota of three refusals and then state that she appears to have no intention of answering the question posed. Nine refusals seems extreme and it is clearly a waste of time to let her choose her own topics and wander all over the map like that.

  2. Dave the Guitar PlayerJanuary 23, 2017 at 12:50 PM

    Unfortunately, Conway got what she wanted from the interview. She had the opportunity to make a series of statements that she wanted the public to hear. She basically used Todd's program as a forum to spread her version of events. Perhaps journalist should refuse to accept her as a source of information from the Trump administration, citing her refusal to address the questions presented to her. The press are under no obligation to allow her (or for that matter, President Trump) a platform to speak if they are not willing to address reasonable questions posed to them.

    1. Yes, but will the guild learn and change their behavior? I do not think that is likely.

  3. Accusing women of mental illness has always been a good standby strategy when you need them to do what you want and all else fails.

    1. It seems more like Conway is mocking the mentally ill with her manic behavior and pretended inability to control her stream of thought and produce a coherent response.

    2. Anon 2:06. You are probably joking or trolling, but I'll bite. TDH has also speculated that Trump is mentally ill. I think in both the cases he is over-speculating. More accurately, Trump and Conway are both cynical demagogues. But you are guilty of poor logic. That TDH said Conway may be mentally ill and that Conway is a woman, doesn't lead to the conclusion that he said that about her because she was a women.

    3. ou're right AC/MA but I practice the logic of the left. If the target is a minority or a female, then the criticisms must be considered in a historical context. If there is a history of a harmful stereotype, all members of that minority must be spared from equal criticism to the white or male on the same question. Forever. Your rightwing logic is racist and sexist.

  4. Spicer and Conway didn't handle it right. They should have mocked and laughed at reporters who were trying to make an issue out of whether the inauguration crowd was the biggest ever or 2nd biggest. I understand that the media are arrayed against Trump, but this is ridiculous. The new Aministration is involved in enormous issues, such as health insurance, pollution, war, the deficit, trade, discrimination, etc. Anyone who's focused on the crowd being only the 2nd biggest is suffering from TDS.

    1. Trump threw a party and no one showed up. That isn't the press's fault. And the crowd wasn't the 2nd biggest either. Spicer brought it up himself, not the reporters.

    2. D in C, I wouldn't endorse the above impolitic response to your post, but you are being really stupid and dishonest here. The press had the right to note that the crowd for Trump was a lot smaller that it was for Obama. Trump is the one who made this into an issue by first calling the press liars for stating something that is true, then sending his press secretary out there to accuse the press of lying when they told the truth, the Conway's demented spiel. We shouldn't have to argue over something so obvious. What is wrong with you? Are you that dense? or that dishonest?

    3. President Trump used his first full day in office on Saturday to unleash a remarkably bitter attack on the news media, falsely accusing journalists of both inventing a rift between him and intelligence agencies and deliberately understating the size of his inauguration crowd.

      This is not true, or, at least, it's spin. Trump did many, many things on his first day in office. He used only a tiny part of his first day in office to berate the media about those two items.

    4. Rubbish. Trump and Conway know this crap is manna from heaven to the dopes and dupes who voted for him, and if they can create enough doubt about what's left of the mainstream media they can get away with anything. The most disgraceful part of all this is the way that the Reinces, Ryans and Rubios are falling into line.

    5. DinC,
      Trump went to the CIA and whined about the press lying about the inaugural crowd's size that afternoon.

    6. D in C, you are doing the same thing Conway did, misdirecting and not simply admitting the obvious. Also, no one is contending that Trump didn't do anything else on his first day in office. The fact is that this bizarre distortion of reality did occur on his first day in office. How can you justify Trump's North Korean-style refusal to abide by western civilization's norms for acknowledging truth and reality?

    7. AD/MA - I wish Trump had acknowledged that the turnout for Obama's inauguration was probably larger than for his. Sticking with his false boast was wrong.

      Unfortunately, politicians mostly don't acknowledge their false statements and other sins. E.g. AFAIK
      -- Hillary never acknowledged or apologized for getting Presidential questions in advance
      -- Hillary never apologized for having someone in her campaign foment violence at Trump rallies.
      -- Obama never apologized for assuring us that under ACA you could keep your insurance and keep your doctor, and that costs would reduce by $2500 per family.

    8. Oh, I get it, Dave. The politician you obviously voted for because he was going to be such a "change" turns out to be just another liar like every other politician.

      And of course, that bothers you not one little bit because after all, he's "your" little liar and you are soooo proud of him!

    9. irishguy -- I expect Trump to lie as much as Obama and the Clintons did. We've already seen Trump's bizarre insistance on exaggeration. Everything is "terrific". His cabinet has the "highest average IQ". He will stop various bad things "right now".

      The difference is that the media will harp on President Trump's lies, whereas they ignored or downplayed President Obama's. E.g., in his farewell address Mr. Obama falsely said the US was the only country that required IDs to vote. Other than the right-wing media, has anyone covered it? Will any reporter demand that Obama apologize for this false statement and correct it? I don't think so.

    10. Yes, I get it, David. Lies are perfectly OK as long as a Republican is doing it.

      But your notion that "the press" let Obama skate for eight years? You really need to stop listening to the little Rush Limbaugh that exists in your head.

      And Poor Donald! Always the victim of those meanies in the media, isn't he?

    11. You're a fucking liar David.
      President Obama did not say that.

      Here is the quote that has your panties in a wad.

      "We are the only country in the advanced democracies that makes it harder to vote, rather than easier."

      Do you deny that your party is systematically instituting policy to suppress the vote of minorities?
      Voter ID laws are just one weapon being used by your undemocratic party to suppress.

    12. Oh, and this:

      " . . . in his farewell address Mr. Obama falsely said the US was the only country that required IDs to vote."

      He said no such thing. He repeated something he often said and stated that the U.S. is the only advanced democracy that is trying to make it harder for people to vote. And that is not limited to the GOP movement for state-issued photo IDs.

      So the next time you want to accuse anyone else of lying, try doing it without telling a lie yourself, OK?

    13. The Politifact ratings showed that Hillary Clinton lied less than anyone except Sanders during the campaign primaries. Trump lied the most of any candidate. His statements were 75% lies.

      It is wrong to say you expect Trump to lie as much as Clinton. You need to say you expect him to lie as little as she did, but he has already shown he cannot do that.

    14. I'm afraid you're wrong, mm. Obama was referring to voter ID. In all other ways it's becoming easier to vote. Voting used to be confined to a single day. Now one gets several days. Absentee ballots used to be a pain in the neck to get. Now they're very convenient. Registration is a lot easier with the motor voter law.

    15. David, you either got you're head in the sand or you are deliberately ignoring the many, many attempts in GOP-controlled state legislatures to restrict voting in areas that tend to vote Democratic.

      I'll go with "deliberately ignorinng" because you are a proven liar who, when caught in a lie, doubles down on it rather than have the scintilla of integrity it takes to admit you were lying.

      Just like your hero.

      Intelligent people know what Trump is up to when he spends his very first full day in office lashing out at the "lying media" telling people not to believe them or their own lying eyes and ears.

      You? You just lap it up like the good puppy dog that you are.

    16. You're a joke DinC.

      You come here and misquote President Obama in order to prove he lied. Do you not see the irony of coming to TDH to do that?

      The president did not say what you claimed he said. And you and simply lying to say,

      "In all other ways it's becoming easier to vote."

      To give just one example:

      after the Supreme Court ruled that part of the Voting Rights Act was unconstitutional, the state “requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices. Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans… Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist.”

      Your odious Bastard President started this bullshit by standing in front of the CIA wall of stars and using it as a political prop to whine like a little pre-school child about his war with the media. Defaming the heroes on that wall by lying about the size of the crowd attending his inauguration.

      What do you want the media to do? Roll over and pretend his lies don't matter?

    17. And here we go, Bastard President injecting more poison into the body politic:

      "With no evidence to support the claim, President Donald Trump told congressional leaders that he lost the popular vote due to up to five million fraudulent votes, the Washington Post reports. Trump reportedly made the claim during a Monday night reception with congressional leaders."

      "Despite the Trump campaign's frequent insistence that voter fraud cost it the popular vote, no evidence has supported any of the claim. Post-election analysis found little to no fraud during the election, which saw Hillary Clinton win the popular vote by 2.8 million. Prior to the election, the Trump campaign suggested that Democrats, particularly in inner cities would commit voter fraud, and encouraged supporters to "monitor" those polls, a suggestion some interpreted as implying voter intimidation." ......

    18. I personally think it's unlikely that there were 5 million fraudulent votes. Trump cannot prove the claim. Nor can anyone disprove it. Fraudulent votes are naturally kept secret. So, the fact that post-election analysis found little to no fraud does NOT prove that there really was little to no fraud. There is no way to really know how much voter fraud there is.

      People who aren't blinded by TDS understand Trump's comment to mean that he thinks there was a lot of voter fraud. In this opinion, he may or may not be correct.

      P.S. to mm -- that North Carolina decision you quoted was about their voter identification law. Your example doesn't contradict what I said. It supports my point that voter ID is what people, including Obama, are talking about when they discuss making it harder to vote.

    19. You're a fucking liar David.

      First you deliberately post a false quote attributed to President Obama in a misguided attempt to defend the Bastard President who is an open fire hydrant of lies. You then dishonestly use the false quote to claim the President lied. This is precisely the very thing Somerby has been writing about for years. He even wrote a fucking book about it.

      Read the decision. The law passed in NC attacked minority voting in 5 different ways.

      the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans…

    20. Here's a direct quote from the decision, written by Judge Diana Gribbon Motz:

      ...The evidence in this case establishes that, at least in part, race motivated the North Carolina legislature. Thus, we do not ask whether the State has an interest in preventing voter fraud—it does—or whether a photo ID requirement constitutes one way to serve that interest—it may—but whether the legislature would have enacted SL 2013-381’s photo ID requirement if it had no disproportionate impact on African American voters. The record evidence establishes that it would not have....

    21. Dave the Guitar PlayerJanuary 24, 2017 at 12:57 PM

      DinC - You know full well that no amount of proof that there was no voter fraud would be sufficient for you to admit that Trump is/was flat-out wrong. Please stop pretending that voter fraud may or may not be true.

  5. Is it really that hard to stay on point to get a question answered?

    Conway's "Alternative Facts" statement made everyone laugh, and once they start laughing, it's over.

    1. Amen. And no one is calling Kellyanne a political genius any more.

    2. She not only put a president in the White House but Donald Trump. Like it or not, genius.

  6. I still can't get out of my head the sound of Rachel Maddow saying, "The great Kellyanne Conway."

    More than once. And then fawning all over her.

    But did her fans notice?

    1. That stomach-turning, insecure sycophant calls everyone great.

  7. Let's treat David in California with compassion. He could be mentally ill.

    1. As Freud said, we are all mentally ill. Some of us make a better bargain with our subconscious than others do.

  8. Wasn't Conway plying her trade for Ted Cruz last year -- and dissing Trump at every opportunity? And of course she's been a fixture of the RW political establishment for quite a while now. Seems to me the broadcast media guys should be better able to undercut her propaganda by this time. Are they just perpetually ill-prepared? Or are they worried that it could create awkwardnesses at the next Washington social gathering?

  9. mm accurately quoted the AP: "With no evidence to support the claim, President Donald Trump told congressional leaders that he lost the popular vote due to up to five million fraudulent votes..."

    But, the AP was either mistaken or lying. There is evidence to support the claim. A study by professors from Old Dominion and James Mason Universities concluded that as many as 2.8 million illegals voted in the 2008 and 2010 elections, and the illegal immigrant population has continued to grow.

    One may disagree with this study, but it's just false to say there's "no evidence."|

    1. There's no evidence, dickhead.

      Secondly, it is outrageous that this Bastard President, now president of the entire country, rather than trying to unite is focused on disparaging Secretary Clinton's tremendous accomplishment and also the majority of the country that voted for Secretary Clinton.

      Even the author of that bullshit study says so.

      (It is interesting that you only quote the high end estimate from that dubious and academically challenged study and neglect to mention the low end estimate. Were you mistaken or just lying?)

      The authors give a range of between 33,000 nationally on the low end and 2.8 million on the high end.

      33,000 to 2.8 million.
      That's quite a range.

      1. This post is not intended to make a specific claim on my part concerning how many non-citizens voted in 2016. It has a much narrower aim. My goal was to show that an extrapolation from my coauthored work on the 2008 election to the 2016 election did not support the arguments some seemed to be making that the entire popular vote margin for Clinton was due to illegal votes by non-citizens. In this post I do my own calculation of that extrapolation for the purpose of demonstrating that this extrapolation would not support that claim.

      Jesse Richman
      Associate Professor of Political Science, Geography, and International Studies, Old Dominion University

  10. The illegal voters elected a Republican Congress, plus Republican governors and legislatures in most states, while they voted for Hillary.

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  19. I found out, that taking herbal treatment is the best to get rid of hpv as soon as i feel the symptoms of hpv is appearing, i took the healing process by contacting Dr onokun for natural treatment it works wonders, amazingly ever since I had the herbal treatment i have not feel these horrible disease anymore and my doc told me the virus is gone, i am glad i finally got cured out from this horrible disease. every hpv or herpes patients should also get in touch with this herbalist Dr to get ride of these disease forever his email address; 

  20. A big Thanks to you doctor   Just confirm am completely cure free from hsv with the help of his wonderful herbs medicine, may God continue to bless you and your wonderful herbs medicine thanks so much Dr Abubaka anyone looking for any herbs medicine should kindly contact Dr Abubaka  to place your order for his lovely herbs medicine Via email: or WhatsApp: +2348075551672

  21. Happiness is all i see now I never thought that I will be cured from HERPES virus again. I have been suffering from a deadly disease (HERPES) for the past 3 years now, I had spent a lot of money going from one places to another, from churches to churches, hospitals have been my home every day residence. Constant checks up have been my hobby not until this faithful day, I was searching through the internet, I saw a testimony on how DR agaba helped someone in curing his HERPES disease, quickly I copied his email which is just to give him a test I spoke to him, he asked me to do some certain things which I did, he told me that he is going to provide the herbal cure to me, which he did, then he asked me to go for medical checkup after some days after using the herbal cure, behold I was free from the deadly disease, he only asked me to post the testimony through the whole world, faithfully am doing it now, please brothers and sisters, he is great, I owe him in return. if you are having a similar problem just email him on : or WhatApp: +2349074536486