COMING: Did the Times deliver a bombshell report?


Everyone certainly said so:
On Thursday night, did the New York Times deliver its latest "bombshell"—its latest "bombshell report?"

We refer to the news report which topped the paper's front page the next morning.

To read that news report, click here. In hard copy, the report appeared beneath these front-page headlines:
President Relented After the White House Counsel Threatened to Resign
That news report, by Schmidt and Haberman, appeared online Thursday night. By now, it has been described as a "bombshell" at least three million times.

More cautious pundits have called it "explosive." That said, we have two questions:

Was that front-page report in the New York Times a genuine bombshell report? Was it even a sound news report?

Starting Monday, we plan to examine those questions. For now, we'll recommend the opening segment of last evening's Last Word.

Lawrence's guest was Michael Wolff. He's the somewhat slippery, unreliable author of Fire and Fury, the current bombshell best-seller.

For the first twelve minutes of Lawrence's program, Wolff offered his take on the Times' bombshell report. In our view, Wolff's statements are well worth considering. You can watch the Last Word interview here.

Was Schmidt's report a bombshell report? Was it even a competent, sound news report?

We think each question is well worth exploring. Monday morning, we'll start.

Some bombshells may be unreliable: For the last four minutes of Lawrence's interview, he questioned Wolff about the claim that Donald J. Trump has been getting it on with his U.N. ambassador.

Wolff triggered that exciting rumor one week ago, in a pair of public forums. We will assume that his slippery remarks also triggered additional sales of his best-selling book.


  1. Today’s entire post is nothing but a tease. Somerby questions whether Trump tried to fire Mueller, but provides no evidence. He also calls Wolff slimy etc, again with no evidence. I suppose he is going to complain about sourcing but he didn’t say anything substantive today. Guess we’re suposed to take on faith that this is fake news, just like Trump claims. Good thing Somerby has Trump’s back. On Monday, more defense of Nassar.

    1. "Somerby questions whether Trump tried to fire Mueller...." Your reading comprehension is somewhat deficient.

    2. Either that or Somerby is questioning whether the news reported is important enough to be considered a "bombshell". I think it is, because it is pretty strong evidence of obstruction of justice.

      Given that Somerby dumps a lot of doubt on the report without saying exactly what his criticism is, the reader is free to draw whatever conclusion he or she wants to.

      You cannot call someone's reading comprehension deficient when what Somerby has said is ambiguous. As if your reading were the only possible conclusion and everyone else is wrong.

      Somerby says: "Was it even a sound news report? "

      That means he is questioning the truth of the report. That means he is questioning whether Trump tried to fire Mueller, which is the content of the report.

    3. 12:37 - stop acting like a stupid faggot loser.

    4. What he's saying here is that - all bullshit wording aside - even if Donald The Greatest did discuss firing Mueller with his counsel (and why wouldn't he?), and then decided against it, that's nowhere near any 'bombshell'.

      It's about as much a 'bombshell' as reporting that Donald The Greatest took a dump yesterday.

    5. It is a bombshell because it shows Trump guilty of obstruction, not because it is so typical of our idiot president.

    6. "Today’s entire post is nothing but a tease."

      Perhaps that is why the first word in the title is "Coming:".

    7. 1:08 you can get some clues about what he is trying to say from the Wolff interview with O'Donnell where Wolff criticizes the NYT report not by questioning the claim that Trump tried to fire Mueller but by saying Trump tries to fire everyone 10 times a day. He implies that it's an overblown a claim.

    8. At this point, the public doesn't know that Trump tries to fire everyone 10 times a day, so that too is news.

      This won't get him off the obstruction of justice hook because why would he even care what Mueller is doing enough to almost fire hin if he weren't involved in the Russia business? Trying to fire Mueller is obstruction, no matter who else he tries to fire every day.

      But I doubt that will be Somerby's argument. Somerby will claim Trump is innocent of all speculation because the N.Y. Times didn't name its sources. He probably thinks Trump didn't have an affair with Stormy Daniels either.

      Somerby cannot base his criticism of the Times' sourcing on something Wolff said when everything Wolff has written is supposedly hearsay and unreliable.

      Somerby would never have approved of Deep Throat or Woodward or Bernstein. The whole story of Watergate wouldn't have emerged because the first stories wouldn't have been printed and the whole unraveling by the press would never have happened. Maybe then we would never have gotten Ronald Reagan as president and we wouldn't be where we are with Trump, another damned celebrity president who presents a façade of competence while deteriorating behind the scenes. Maybe that's Somerby's point.

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  2. I would love to know if any of the Times's sources actually heard Trump issue a direct order to fire Mueller. If none of their sources directly witnessed the alleged firing, then the headline is essentially based on a rumor.

    Note that the article itself makes some weaker allegations, such as Trump wanting to fire Mueller. This version is hardly newsworthy. Trump has made no secret of the fact that he would like to get rid of Mueller.

    1. The speculation is that the main source is Trump's attorney, McGahn. That would mean that yes, he did in fact hear Trump issue a direct order to fire Mueller.

      Many of the people who are routinely leaking this kind of information about Trump are doing so in order to try to control Trump's actions when he is reportedly too headstrong to listen to reason. This is their way of coercing Trump into behaving in a less self-destructive way.

      The amount of leaking is unprecedented. That suggests it is instrumental, in the sense that it is designed to accomplish some goal. Initially, the goals involved jockeying for power among Trump's advisors, who were split into factions. Now that Kelly has that under control, the leaking is for other purposes -- you have to ask yourself what interest is being served by each leak. Sometimes it is CYA -- Gahn comes off well in this story because he talked Trump out of doing something rash.

      Palmer Report speculates that Gahn has been interviewed by Mueller. He also pretty routinely suggests that Trump's staff know he is going down and that they want to avoid being taken down with him. So some of these leaks may be self-serving in that way.

      Does anyone really think this report is unlikely to be true? It is entirely consistent with everything we know to date about Trump and how he operates.

    2. Your points are interesting, in at least they convey some knowledge of the facts. But then you come up with this:

      "That suggests..."

      See, that's the kind of wishy-washy thinking that Somerby deplores. It's the whole point behind this website.

      I appreciate the sharing of information, that happens a lot here. But the site is mainly constructed around mainstream media criticism. When will you get used to that fact? And start a weblog? I'd check it out. You're a passable writer.


    3. "That suggests" could be paraphrased as "People are leaking for their own reasons" which seems pretty uncontroversial to me.

      There are no blogs, including this one, that don't contain the authors' opinions. Somerby isn't confining himself to facts either.

      Why should comments only contain facts? No good reason.

    4. Leroy, I disagree that Somerby's purpose is mostly criticism of the mainstream media. That is one aspect of it, and may have been the original impetus for the blog, but you can't ignore the criticisms of liberal thought and politics that he routinely engages in, like his blasting of what the right-wing calls "identity politics."

    5. 6:32, thanks for your thoughtful reply. Some people are hung up on Bob's lumping of “liberals” with the views of those reporting the news, but that’s a long-time hook, and admittedly perhaps outdated, with the explosion of alternative news sources.

      I am curious about your specific take on Bob's criticism of liberal thought. And whether or not it's justified. I know – the Republicans are absolutely shameless, and have a massive advantage in “launching the propaganda” with Fox, Rush et al, not to mention voter suppression and on and on. But the fact is, we're losing in the arena of ideas, despite liberal ideas being very mainstream.

      What of “liberal” MSM reporting? Could it be that it sucks, in terms of informing viewers? I don't watch it, so I ask you, how often is Bernie Sanders, reportedly the most popular politician in America, invited to air his views?

      Looking forward to your reply. Sorry for my late one.


  3. Somerby no doubt will suggest on Monday that no newspaper reports should ever be based on anonymous sources, even multiple ones. That is something that has never been a journalistic standard or requirement since the beginning of newspapers.

    Newspapers can be sued for libel. That is the citizen's protection against what is printed. Journalists try to get it right. Insisting that there be no protection for sources means it will be impossible to do any investigative journalism at all, that newspapers will no longer perform a muckraking function, no longer be able to keep the powerful in check.

    Or maybe he'll say something else on Monday. Who knows? That's the problem with this stupid waste of space tease he insists on writing periodically.

  4. Wolff never named the person having the affair with Trump. People speculated it might be Haley. That's on them, not him.

  5. Here is BooMan's take on things:

    "It's already clear to me from watching Jonathan Turley defend the president against obstruction of justice charges that the criminal defense for Donald Trump is going to rely on the fact that a person who doesn't know right from wrong doesn't necessarily have criminal intent if they do wrong. Turley, for example, blandly explained that the way that Trump acted towards Mueller isn't much different from how he acts against any number of officials who he fires or threatens to fire. He's always pissed off. He wants to fire John Kelly and Don McGahn and Jeff Sessions, but he doesn't. He's always doing improper things that violate norms, so it's not necessarily true that his intent is to intimidate career FBI officers into not testifying against him when he names them publicly and sends his goons after them. "

  6. Joseph Cannon speculates that McGahn leaked that story to the NY Times in order to prevent Donald Trump from lying under oath and denying any attempt to fire Mueller when Mueller interviews Trump down the road. Trump tends to deny the most blatantly obvious things. If he denies something like this under oath, he will subject himself to perjury, so revealing this to the NY Times preempts Trump's attempt to lie and protects him from a perjury prosecution. It makes a sort of sense.

  7. "Was that front-page report in the New York Times a genuine bombshell report? Was it even a sound news report?"

    No, obviously it's not a news report. Just their usual goebbelsian shit, no more no less.

    1. A prime characterstic of being a Russian bot like "Mao" is to ignore facts and stick to Kremlin propoganda.

    2. Uh oh...Trump may be about to lose his 'populist' cred with his zombie fanbots here:

      Will Trump end NAFTA? Trump's ag secretary says not to worry

      By Catherine Boudreau, Helena Bottemiller Evich | Jan 26, 2018

  8. Kevin Drum lists only 3 blogs by women and oddly Digby is missing.

    1. It was an oversight, apparently. He added her now.

  9. "Wolff triggered that exciting rumor one week ago, in a pair of public forums. We will assume that his slippery remarks also triggered additional sales of his best-selling book."

    Well, at least you're getting somewhat closer to the truth of what the mainstream press corps is all about--PROFITS for plutocrats. All activity --every word spoken or printed-- has only that concern in mind.

  10. Kevin Drum's blog list brings out two things:
    1. Many of us moved from the blogs we liked to the blogs that were commentable. Disquis has had a bad influence on the blogging community. That is true for me certainly.
    2. Several people lamented that Echidne wasn't on the list either. Drum did add Digby but he apparently doesn't read women much. And he didn't notice that they were missing. What does that say about his view of the world?

    Personally, I like Sky Dancing, TalkLeft and the Confluence. Leaving off TalkLeft is about as bad as overlooking Digby.

    Oddly, in the comments discussion, people don't seem to be aware that Andrew Sullivan started out at The New Republic.

    Kevin Drum doesn't seem to read 538 or David Neiwert or Boing Boing or any of the conspiracy blogs. Hard to call him a true wonk.

    But the whole discussion did make me feel old.

  11. Maureen Dowd is back again, writing another column ostensibly pro Melania but using it as a cover to once again attack Hillary.

    In comments, people questioned her belief that Biden was not permitted to run (instead of making his own decision) and that Bernie would have won. No one believes that except die-hard bros.

    Elsewhere there is a long discussion of left-wing misogyny and its encouragement by the Bernie campaign in 2016. The worst is at HuffPo:

    Note that the complaint against Clinton's campaign is that the abuser was ultimately hired by another entity that the national campaign had no control over. The complaint against Sanders' campaign is that they permitted a culture of misogyny that was never addressed and they never did anything about any abuser except deny that any allegations were true. Bernie denies there was any sexism on his campaign in response to this column too.

    Talk about false equivalence!

    Anyone who supported Clinton during the 2008 or 2016 campaigns knows how they were treated by the bros in blog comments. Sexist harassment was a campaign tool used against anyone daring to say anything enthusiastic or positive about Clinton in public.

    Now MoDo pretends Bernie was blameless while Clinton permitted sexual abuse. Gack!!! When is the NY Times going to finally get rid of this woman?

    Melania is not a victim. She holds political views similar to Trump's. She married him willingly, knowing who and what he is. She turned a blind eye to his earlier infidelities. It doesn't matter where she sleeps now or how she feels about him. She is useless as a First Lady (just as her husband is useless as President). The press should leave her alone and let her live her life, just as it ignores what is happening with Barron. MoDo doesn't know whether Melania attended the Holocaust Museum to tick off her husband or to show respect to some personal relation, and it doesn't matter. The Holocaust Museum is not a prop in the Trump's personal drama. It is an important memorial to Jewish people and shouldn't be used as a prop in MoDo's assault on the Clintons. In her haste to give deliberate offense, MoDo has given inadvertent offense to people who do not deserve additional affront. MoDo should be ashamed, but she won't be.

  12. Probably Somerby is going to quibble over the difference between conflicting NY Times and Post reports that McGahn stood up to Trump and refused to fire Mueller or that McGahn never said anything directly to Trump and Trump just changed his mind somehow or never said anything when McGahn didn't obey Trump's order.

    The bombshell part is that Trump ordered Mueller to be fired. It doesn't matter how that wasn't carried through. What matters is the intent to obstruct justice evidenced by the order. That order appears in both versions of the story.

    How then can Somerby claim this isn't a bombshell report?

    Personally, I don't care whether McGahn talked Trump out of this rash action, whether he just engaged in passive disobedience and Trump chose not to push it, or whether McGahn did give Trump an ultimatum. How Mueller escaped firing doesn't matter. Trump's order matters.

  13. Somerby needs to read this:

    It will explain the wrongness of his current campaigns against identity politics, his insistence that women's complaints about earning less than men are incorrect, his belief that tribes shouldn't exist, his channeling of David Brooks and those so-called anthropologists he has invented to give his ideas heft.

    I don't know whether Somerby has been reading Jordan Peterson, but if he has, he needs to read an effective critique of his pernicious right-wing attack on respect for identity.

    Misguided Bernie supporters need this too. They need to understand where their worship of Chomsky intersects with the alt-Right. They need to read about how this has been corrupted into an attack that supports conservative and right wing interests. Because they are headed down the wrong path with some truly noxious fellow travelers.

    1. Cited in the comments are these two sources:

      I am a cognitive/experimental psychologist and Jordan Peterson is a careerist and the newest Dinesh D'Souza. The only way members of a profession can protect the public from charlatans is to issue critiques like these. It is up to the public to read them and use their brains. He is a blot on my field (thankfully he is clinical and doesn't claim to be a scientist).

    2. 5:48, your link actually does a pretty good job of pointing out weaknesses in some of Peterson's assertions. Of course, it chooses the weakest ones to dispute. But it's an impressive effort.

      I cannot resist quoting one howler from your cite: "...I don't believe trans activists do in fact presume that group identity is paramount. As you'd expect with a list of 71 genders, they seem to think people tend to be unique..."

      Of course, this statement precisely says that group identity is paramount, as long as you have the right groups. The real opposite belief is that there are 330 million Americans and each of them is a unique individual. They are unique because of enormous number of different characteristics, not just nationality and gender, not even inclouding 71 different genders.

    3. Peterson is expecting that the opposite of collectivist identity must be no identity at all, not the slightly less collectivist but still group identified identities typical of most Americans, of which sexual identity is a small part.

      We think of ourselves as parents, musicians, fish enthusiasts, romance readers, world travelers, redheads, dog owners, snow boarders, millenials, blog readers, Bronco fans who like sushi, not merely Dems or Trans activists. Petersen is a jerk.

  14. Thanks for that link 5:48. I will read the entire thing later, when I have more time, but I was tickled by something early on. Conor Friedersdorf of the Atlantic (and many others) complained that interviewer Cathy Newman frequently inaccurately "restated" something Peterson had said so as to make it seem as if his view is offensive, hostile, or absurd. The cited article disputes that assertion. Yet, the cited article inaccurately restates something Peterson said, so as to make it absurd.

    Peterson said both Mao and left wing activists share a fundamental philosophy:
    "The first thing is that their philosophy presumes that group identity is paramount. That’s the fundamental philosophy that drove the Soviet Union and Maoist China. And it’s the fundamental philosophy of the left-wing activists. It’s identity politics. It doesn’t matter who you are as an individual, it matters who you are in terms of your group identity."

    Your cited article extends what Peterson actually said into something he didn't say:
    "Peterson merely said that [Trans activists and Mao Tse Tung] are the same in every important respect"
    (italics added)

    1. Irregardless of whether or not Peterson is misinterpreted or not, he is a crackpot and it's no mystery why you are offering an outlier article in the alt-left Atlantic magazine to support your obsessive confirmation bias.

      Also, "you're too busy" to read a relatively short article but not too busy to grab the first thing you can grab from it to troll here.

    2. David and Peterson are both confusing individualism vs collectivism with the source of identity formation, a process that occurs in early childhood. A person can consider himself African American, for example, and be either individualist or collectivist.

      That is what Peterson misunderstands in his stupid analogy. Since he has psych training I have to assume this is deliberate and thus intended to manipulate by equating trans people with Mao, a historical villain. That is ugly.

  15. Anon 9:15 "We think of ourselves as parents, musicians, fish enthusiasts, romance readers, world travelers, redheads, dog owners, snow boarders, millenials, blog readers, Bronco fans who like sushi, not merely Dems or Trans activists."

    I don't. Yes, I am parent, a musician, a 75-year old, an actuary, etc., but that is not how I think of myself. I think of myself as me. Another person would all those characteristics would still not be the same as me. And, I think of others the same way -- as individuals, not as a collection of group memberships.

    Anon 8:54 I have now read the entire article. Given that I disagree with its thesis, I think it's pretty well done. The writer put a big effort into it and did identify some areas where Peterson's position was not as strong.

    Note that I didn't bring in the Atlantic magazine. It was the cited article that did so. I don't think that article was an outlier. On the contrary, I have seen quite a few articles that made the same points about that Channel 4 interview.

    1. The problem was not the interviewer. It was Peterson's intellectual dishonesty.

    2. "I think of myself as me."

      Now, that's a bit much, I think, although I can understand it as a reaction to liberal-totalitarian categorization of human beings.

      No man is an island. Obviously, only a zombie would identify with its whole 'race', ethnic group, gender, or generation (as assigned by liberal commissars), but you probably do identify with your friends, neighbors, family. People you've known for a long time, with shared memories and interests.

      Here's what Kurt Vonnegut wrote about it, back in the 70s:

    3. Крайне важноJanuary 29, 2018 at 10:34 AM

      One troll taking issue with another troll to earn a couple more kopeks from "The Agency."

      Very clever, comrade.

    4. What is this "USA", you speak of Mao?

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  24. i am ERIC BRUNT by name. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my wife after three(3) years of marriage just because another Man had a spell on her and she left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster on this address have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a man had a spell on my wife and he told me that he will help me and after 3 days that i will have my wife back. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my wife. Thanks for helping me Dr Larry contact him on email: Dr Larry TEMPLE.. or Whats-app +1(424)-261-8520

    i am ERIC BRUNT by name. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my wife after three(3) years of marriage just because another Man had a spell on her and she left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster on this address have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a man had a spell on my wife and he told me that he will help me and after 3 days that i will have my wife back. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my wife. Thanks for helping me Dr Larry contact him on email: Dr Larry TEMPLE.. or Whats-app +1(424)-261-8520

  25. hello,
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