THE PLATONIST FILE: Digest of reports!

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2018

New chapter starts tomorrow:
Friend, do you know what a Platonist is? How well were Rebecca Goldstein and Jim Holt able to explain the puzzling "doctrine" of Platonism?

Tomorrow, we start our "incompleteness file"—our reports on the efforts by Goldstein and Holt to explain Kurt Godel's "incompleteness theorems."

Those reports start tomorrow. For today, we offer these links to last week's reports from the Platonist file:
Tuesday, September 11: You might be a Platonist if...! A timeless lack of clarity.

Wednesday, September 12:: Attempts to explain 2 + 2! The world of our greatest logicians.

Thursday, September 13: Goldstein tries to explain what Godel believed. Professor takes Platonist challenge!

Friday, September 14: What makes 17 a prime? When mathematicians wander.
For links to our earlier reports from the Godel file, you can just click here.

Tomorrow, we start the incompleteness file. With what degree of clarity did Holt explain Godel's theorems?

25 comments:

  1. Even TDH has given up trying to defend the indefensible.
    Better late than never, Bob.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Give him time. There may be a reason his new chapter starts tomorrow and not today.

      Delete
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  2. "Tomorrow", we start the incompleteness file."

    Kiss today goodbye and point me toward tomorrow.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwk0Sh3id4w

      Delete
    2. I can point you to a fat coward: Trump.

      Delete
  3. Doesn't the incompleteness theorem stand on its own merits. Why does it matter whether Godel was a Platonist or not? It shouldn't change the value of his work. Would it matter to Watson & Crick's discovery of DNA that they were Christians, or not?

    Why is Somerby stuck on examining Platonism? Hardly anyone checked that box on the last census.

    ReplyDelete
  4. A somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7WGqBZnCPM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Einstein showed that a very small amount of mass can be converted into a very large amount of energy

      Bob showed that a very small amount of math can be converted into a very large amount of inanity.

      Delete
  5. It's not clear that Somerby has ever read Gödel. He mocks Goldstein's attempts to explain "mathematical Platonism", saying they make no sense, but offers no logical objections. He does not address the issue of whether Goldstein has accurately described Gödel's own thoughts about this. (Goldstein's book came out in 2005, so Somerby has had 13 years to study Gödel).

    Ultimately, Somerby is doing nothing different than he has been doing for years: mocking pointy-headed egghead "ranking" professors and academics who in his view have no common sense, who utter nonsense and get praised by the "guild" for their nonsense, and who, apparently along with the non-right-wing "mainstream press", caused the downfall of our discourse and the rise of Trump.

    Just a couple of years ago, Somerby went through this same exercise when he critiqued a number of "Einstein made easy" books and concluded the same thing: they were all full of shit. He never wondered if he simply failed to understand the material because his intellectual capacity was too limited. And if his interest was piqued by Einstein's physics or Gödel's mathematical logic, then why not study the source material? To fully understand either of the two, you would have to learn some fairly technical science and mathematics. But it is easier to mock than to learn. And it's more fun.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "With what degree of clarity did Holt explain Godel's theorems?"

    If Holt only wrote a chapter (based on a book review) and Goldstein wrote a whole book, why pick on Holt's explanation instead of Goldstein's?

    How about this one:

    https://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the link, @6:59. I don't like it. Two naive errors:

      Everyone knows Euclid's five postulates are true

      Not really. Euclid's postulate describe an abstract system. They do closely represent geometry on an actual flat surface. But, they do not work for geometry on the outside of sphere, where, e.g., there are no parallel lines.

      Gödel proved that there are ALWAYS more things that are true than you can prove. Any system of logic or numbers that mathematicians ever came up with will always rest on at least a few unprovable assumptions.

      Godel's incompleteness does not dispute the need for a mathematical system to be based on unproven assumptions. It actually shows that within any mathematical system based on a (sufficiently rich) set of assumptions, there are statements in this system that are true, but which cannot be proven within that system.

      Delete
    2. "All reasoning ultimately traces back to faith in something that you cannot prove."

      Faith is a loaded word, and shouldn't be used in scientific endeavors. If something isn’t proved, then it’s unproven, simple as that. Empirical evidence is the only real way for scientific discovery, through peer review, for science to move forward.

      “In the history of the universe we also see the introduction of information, some 3.5 billion years ago (Or was it longer? Was information somehow present at the beginning?). It came in the form of the Genetic code, which is symbolic and immaterial.”

      Ya makin’ me want to hollah. The genetic “code” is immaterial? That statement alone is enough to discredit anything Marshall has to say.

      “If you know Gödel’s theorem, you know that all logical systems must rely on something outside the system. So according to Gödel’s Incompleteness theorem, the Infidels cannot be correct. If the universe is logical, it has an outside cause.”

      So Marshall is a determinist? Nice to know. As a famous bumper sticker proclaimed, “God’s in control, why worry?”

      Infidels? I’m smelling something unpleasant, like burning at the stake.

      Marshall projects the human construct of mathematics, which does have real value in evaluating real natural phenomena, into the leap of “faith” that somehow, the universe is a result of an “outside cause.” Mathematics is symbolic, and only representative of reality, just as with fractal equations. Mathematics helps us deal with reality as it exists, but it’s not reality itself.

      “So you can have atheism or you can have science – but you can’t have both.” Mkay.

      “Infidels.” Can’t get over that. Too precious. Jesus godamn mother-fucking christ. Bob’s posts are more better than that, and he ain’t sayin’ anything.

      Leroy

      Delete
    3. Well put, Leroy. Marshall goes wrong when he writes:

      Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem applies not just to math, but to everything that is subject to the laws of logic. Incompleteness is true in math; it’s equally true in science or language or philosophy.

      NO! Godel's result does not apply in science or language or philosophy. I don't even think it's a useful metaphor. The Incompleteness Theorem applies only in very special mathematical constructs.

      Marshall reminds me of those who try to apply Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle to areas outside of its proper domain. Perhaps some of those comparisons are useful metaphors, perhaps not, but Heisenberg Uncertainty itself does not apply to other areas.

      Delete
    4. Why do the mash potato when you can do the cut and paste?

      Fallacies of illicit transference

      Delete
  7. So the Incompleteness Theorem doesn't mean that you can go on and on and never get to the point? Then what's Bob's excuse?

    ReplyDelete
  8. http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2018/09/kavanaugh-is-creep-and-ford-is.html

    Here is a point I haven't seen made elsewhere. The Republicans knew Ford's allegations were coming and tried to innoculate Kavanaugh from them, in the ways described by The Rude Pundit. How did they know that if the assault never happened? Since they weren't blindsided, Kavanaugh must have told them something. What?

    ReplyDelete
  9. http://upyernoz.blogspot.com/2018/09/once-they-get-out-high-school-yearbooks.html

    What Judge and Kavanaugh wrote in their yearbooks -- this is relevant to the believability of the Supreme Court nominee and his accuser.

    ReplyDelete
  10. http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/cradle-of-filth/12758/

    If Ford shouldn't be automatically believed because she is a woman, Kavanaugh shouldn't be automatically believed because he is a man.

    Why isn't the FBI being allowed to investigate this allegation as part of its vetting of Kavanaugh?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @10:37 Professor Helena Kraemer has written several works with Ford and vouches for her. Kraemer is a top-notch bio-statistician, who my wife knows slightly. Kraemer's commendation of Ford speaks well for her.

      Delete
  11. Good day everybody my name is Mrs Caroline Gilli am here to share with you my life experience on how a great man called Dr Alexzander saved me and my marriage.I have been Married & Barren for for 5 years i had no child. i have never been pregnant i was a subject of laughter from my Friends & neighbors, i almost lost my marriage because of this issue.i was so confused that i did not know what to do until i came across this great Dr online and i contacted him at once i was scared weather it was going to work because i never believed things like this before, so i decided to give it a try and i did all what Dr Alexzander asked of me and today to my greatest surprise i took in the first time and i gave birth to a bouncing baby boy and now my marriage that was about crashing before is now restored. my husband now love and want me better, Am so happy for everything that have been happening in my life since i met this Dr Alexzander.
    I want to tell all the women/men out there who have a similar situation like mine,that the world is not over YET they should dry up their tears and contact this great man and their problem will be gone or are you also having other problems you can also contact Dr Alexzander, here is how you can contact him alexzanderhightemple@gmail.com or contact him via his whatsapp phone number +2348075823891.
    Thank Dr Alexzander for everything you did in my marriage.
    Thanks
    Caroline Grilli

    ReplyDelete

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    or
    call/whatsapp:+2349057261346

    ReplyDelete
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