FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2021
Raps, propaganda and war: We were first "taught" (exposed to) the poem as a mere high school student at America's Aragon High.
The school sits on the Alameda de las Pulgas (the road of the fleas) in San Mateo, California. Our exposure occurred in the last few years before drugs fully hit.
(Altamont finally happened in December 1969.)
At present, we think of the poem every morning as we scan the major newspapers. For the record, the once-famous poem's once-famous title is drawn from a line from Horace.
The leading authority on Horace explains that line in the manner shown below. Headline included:
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" is a line from the Odes (III.2.13) by the Roman lyric poet Horace. The line translates: "It is sweet and fitting to die for the homeland." The Latin word patria (homeland), literally meaning the country of one's fathers (in Latin, patres) or ancestors, is the source of the French word for a country, patrie, and of the English word "patriot" (one who loves his country).
Horace's line was quoted in the title of a poem by Wilfred Owen, "Dulce et Decorum est", published in 1921, describing soldiers' horrific experiences in World War I. Owen's poem, which calls Horace's line "the old Lie", essentially ended the line's straightforward uncritical use. Before 1920, the phrase had tended to appear in memorials and monuments to the fallen; after 1921, it tended to decry propaganda and war.
We were exposed to Owen's poem—to "Dulce et Decorum est"—when we were still in high school. It's with us every day at this point.
According to the leading authority, the Owen poem changed the way the line from Horace was typically used. After the poem's publication, the famous line upon which the poem is based tended to be used "to decry propaganda and war."
So says the leading authority. Sadly, we offer this:
If it's propaganda and war you enjoy today, you should turn on MSNBC (but also CNN). We especially refer to the horrific corporate channel's ongoing ugly, repulsive treatment of the Rittenhouse trial.
Full disclosure! A bit of irony appears when the leading authority on Owen's poem reports the poem's provenance,
The poem was a bitter commentary on the price a nation or tribal group may pay when that nation or tribal group longs for the greatness of war.
According to the leading authority, the poem was once influential, even "renowned." Its sentiments are almost wholly unknown today.
At any rate, this is the way the leading authority describes the poem's creation:
"Dulce et Decorum est" is a poem written by Wilfred Owen during World War I, and published posthumously in 1920. The Latin title is taken from Ode 3.2 (Valor) of the Roman poet Horace and means "it is sweet and fitting". It is followed by pro patria mori, which means "to die for one's country".
One of Owen's most renowned works, the poem is known for its horrific imagery and condemnation of war. It was drafted at Craiglockhart in the first half of October 1917 and later revised, probably at Scarborough but possibly Ripon, between January and March 1918. The earliest surviving manuscript is dated 8 October 1917 and addressed to his mother, Susan Owen, with the message: "Here is a gas poem done yesterday (which is not private, but not final)."
It was "one of Owen's most renowned works." Cue the sardonic laughter!
At any rate, the leading authority tells us that Owen's bitter anti-propaganda poem was "probably revised at Scarborough." To all intents and purposes, that's precisely our point!
Our badly failing liberal world is increasingly sunk in propaganda and tribal war. This is especially true when we conduct our increasingly disgraceful "raps on race."
As Mead and Baldwin may have shown, it's never been easy to discuss issues of race. By way of contrast, it's very easy—extremely easy—to memorize propaganda.
We've been appalled, in the past few weeks, by the propagandistic presentations our tribal tribunes have offered. On Wednesday, November 10, for example, Joe Scarborough offered this:
SCARBOROUGH (11/10/21): We have a 17-year-old kid, underage, said he bought an AR-15 because he thought it was cool. He drove across state—had his mother drive him across state lines. He appointed himself a militia member. He goes around and he ends up unloading, what, 60 rounds?
We were watching Morning Joe when the cable star made that presentation. He made other gruesome misstatements during that propagandistic segment, but we're able to quote this part of his presentation because a different cable news host finally played the videotape on Monday of this week.
Inevitably, that other cable news host immediately launched one of his own trademark rants. Immediately after playing that tape, he ranted about it as shown:
UNNAMED CABLE NEWS HOST (11/15/21): Of all the people, you could find to comment on a killing, it's interesting who they chose. But just listen to the words—consider how totally dishonest the summary you just heard is. Virtually every word is a lie.
The summary was "totally dishonest?" "Virtually every word [was] a lie?"
That assessment may be accurate! It's also possible that Scarborough actually believed his howling misstatements—howling misstatements our own blue tribe's propaganda machine has churned again and again and again.
No, Kenosha! Kyle Rittenhouse's mother didn't drive him to Kenosha that day or that night. That has been clear for a very long time—unless you're watching Our Channel.
Rittenhouse did "cross state lines" when he came to Kenosha that day—but that's because he lives roughly one mile across the state line in Aurora, Illinois. The vaguely criminal-sounding claim is endlessly recited by our tribunes. Though it has a wonderfully criminal feel, it's also completely irrelevant.
Did Rittenhouse "appoint himself a militia member?" We have no idea what that claim is even supposed to mean, but it serves the tribal purpose. Meanwhile, Scarborough outdid the rest of the tribe with the ugly, vile and ridiculous claim that Rittenhouse "end[ed] up unloading, what, like 60 rounds" that night.
He'd pulled that number right out of his ascot. In this report, the New York Times seems to count eight shots fired.
In a perfect world, that would be eight rounds too many, of course. But we don't live in a perfect world, as the conduct of people like Scarborough makes increasingly clear.
Back in the day, propagandists of this stripe urged others to march off to war. As he relates in his once-famous poem, Owen trudged along behind the carts filled with the dying and the dead.
(Also, see the famous scene in Gone With the Wind of Atlanta's dying and dead.)
Corporate multimillionaire stars like Scarborough engage in such conduct today. They recite their points to excite their tribe—and to send a teenager to jail.
(They may not know that their claims are misleading and false. It isn't part of their culture to check.)
We thought of Owen's bitter words when we watched Scarborough behave that way that morning. He made other statements which were even more ridiculous.
(His performance of racial greatness left no script behind. Pathetically, he even went back to play the old "he was carrying Skittles" card!)
We thought of Owen's bitter words when we watched Scarborough propagandize. So too as we watched Claire McCaskill the very next day, or as we watched William Cornell Brooks, or as we read Robin Givhan's remarkable statements this week.
People have always behaved in such ways; some behave this way today. As for our own inexcusable tribe, we're currently Building Balkanization Better as our tribunes engages in this ugly misconduct and the silly children of our tribe reward them for their behavior.
By the way, who was the unnamed cable host who played the tape of Scarborough? That unnamed host was Tucker Carlson. This forces us to offer a simple truth:
Despite his trademark rants, Carlson's coverage of the Rittenhouse trial has been vastly more accurate and informative than the coverage being churned on our own cable channels. It's hard to have sufficient contempt for the behavior of our own corporate tools.
They do this to send a teenager to jail—and to pleasure you and yours. To extend separation and war.
"Dulce et Decorum est" was a bitter complaint about propaganda and war. It's hard to have sufficient contempt for the behavior of the figureheads who mislead us night after night.
McCaskill? Brooks? Givhan? That stupid brainwashed kid at Slate? "Ardent for some desperate glory," there's nothing they won't memorize and say for love of propaganda.
Setting those trademark rants to the side, the basic coverage at Fox has been much more informative. We expect to explore this state of affairs next week.
Disconsolate experts keep telling us that this ugly, evil state of affairs simply isn't going to change. Nor will we stop cheering our Caesars as they parade about on TV, performing these new raps on race.
Next week: Information v. faux
What Owen saw: The wages of propaganda are death. This remains true today:
In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning...
As always, thank you for documenting these new liberal atrocities, dear Bob.
Even though it's a small, tiny portion of the totality of liberal atrocities.
"If it's propaganda and war you enjoy today, you should turn on MSNBC (but also CNN). " [CNN? Where Bill Maher was lauded yesterday?]ReplyDelete
We are not in a war. We are attempting to build a civil society in which the voices of all people are heard and the needs of all are met.
These war images raised by Somerby are majorly inappropriate. They are unhelpful in the midst of this ongoing effort in the midst of pandemic. When Somerby mentions Wilfred Owen, he attempts to legitimize what Rittenhouse did, which was a major breach of civil behavior, and Somerby issues a call to arms that will encourage conservatives to think that their grievances excuse domestic terrorism of the type committed by Rittenhouse (who was not shot, not even endangered, while he shot others at will).
Conservatives eschew demonstrations in favor of strong arm tactics and violence, up to and including domestic terrorism. Where the left marches with signs, the right rolls trucks over protesters and issues death threats to public officials. That isn't war, unless Somerby considers this a war against our civil authorities.
Somerby's theme is not only offensive because it co-opts heroism in battle to excuse law-breaking and attacks on neighbors, but it encourages greater intolerance against fellow citizens and an abandonment of due process for force.
It is tempting to compare this time to the increasing frustration and violence of the 60s and 70s, but those were trying to advance unselfish causes. They were not power plays and attacks on fellow citizens, as today's violence is. Somerby seeks to legitimize conservative violence by disguising it as "war" when this is nothing more than authoritarian intimidation of others in a democracy where everyone's vote and voice must count.
I consider that treason, not war. Somerby is not a glorious soldier in Rittenhouse's army. These are sickening sociopathic acts encouraged by cynical power-seekers who cannot gain power by consent of the governed but only by force.
And Somerby is cheering this on by disguising what is happening as decorous when it is in fact malignant evil. Somerby should be ashamed of himself. Nothing justifies an assault on our democracy, not even Rittenhouse's pretense at aiding the wounded by bringing a gun to a riot in order to shoot protesters and rioters. Shame on Somerby!
"Our badly failing liberal world is increasingly sunk in propaganda and tribal war. This is especially true when we conduct our increasingly disgraceful "raps on race.""ReplyDelete
Where was the violence in Mead and Baldwin's conversation? Why is "war" any kind of metaphor for such a discussion?
Somerby has gone over the bend. His mental health is in serious question today.
Look who's talking.Delete
Bob wants us to believe this is just a troubled teenager who likes car dealerships and wants to protect them. Rittenhouse has ties to reactionary white nationalist groups, allied to the former president this blog pretends to dislike.ReplyDelete
I wonder if he believes a Syrian kid in ISIS who blows up buses just has strong opinions about public transit systems.
"The poem was a bitter commentary on the price a nation or tribal group may pay when that nation or tribal group longs for the greatness of war. "ReplyDelete
Neither the poem itself, nor any literary critic, mentions "tribal groups" in its analysis of Owens' work.
Somerby seeks to extend a poem about a nationalistic war in which Germany sought to extend its boundaries and gain access to colonies, to the social conflict between conservatives who are resisting change and liberals who seek it.
Conservatives wish to legitimize use of force whereas liberals seek change within our system of government. This is not a conflict between "tribal groups" nor is it legitimate to attempt to overthrow legal elections and obstruct legislative process via use of force, as Trump and his followers did.
If there is any fight here, it is to preserve democracy from the onslaught of conservative power-seekers who realize they cannot win through elections and are now using other means to maintain rule by their minority over the much larger group of citizens in our nation. That isn't tribal. It is treason. And Somerby has made it very clear who he stands with, and it isn't us liberals.
"One of Owen's most renowned works, the poem is known for its horrific imagery and condemnation of war."ReplyDelete
I have yet to hear Somerby condemn what Rittenhouse did.
I don't know which fighting guru Bob Somerby trained with in the mountains, but usually you don't travel a mile, toward a riot, in self defense.ReplyDelete
"Rittenhouse did "cross state lines" when he came to Kenosha that day—but that's because he lives roughly one mile across the state line in Aurora, Illinois. "ReplyDelete
Somerby keeps pretending that Kenosha is also right next to the state border when it is not. Kenosha is 19 miles from the state border and 20 miles from Antioch. This is how Somerby puts his own thumb on the scales while pretending that others are being dishonest.
Let's call Bob's nursing home that he writes this blog from and ask them to open a window, get some fresh air to his beautiful mind.Delete
"Inevitably, that other cable news host immediately launched one of his own trademark rants. Immediately after playing that tape, he ranted about it as shown:"ReplyDelete
This is most likely Tucker Carlson. Why is Somerby being so coy about naming him? We all know that he watches the guy. Does that mean that Carlson's info is any better than Scarborough's? Because Carlson catches trivial errors in one host's presentation, does that justify the major lies Carlson routinely tells on his show? And is this why Somerby doesn't name him? You cannot use a liar to impeach a liar, but Somerby sure tries.
Does it matter whether Rittenhouse's mother or his sister drove him to Kenosha? Does it matter whether he got the gun from his friends in Kenosha or took it with him from Antioch? His mother says she didn't know where he was during those two days. Is that any better than driving him to Kenosha to stay with friends?
All of this subterfuge to avoid dealing with what Rittenhouse did in Kenosha.
"Meanwhile, Scarborough outdid the rest of the tribe with the ugly, vile and ridiculous claim that Rittenhouse "end[ed] up unloading, what, like 60 rounds" that night."ReplyDelete
According to PolitiFact, Rittenhouse's gun had a magazine holding 30 rounds. How many people does Rittenhouse have to shoot and kill before Somerby will admit that he did something wrong? Does Scarborough's overestimate of the rounds change what Rittenhouse did?
The (Republican) creators of South Park parodied the defense's logic very well here. In their show, hunters can't kill endangered species unless it's self defense. So they shout "It's coming right for us!" whenever they want to fire their guns.ReplyDelete
"In a perfect world, that would be eight rounds too many, of course. But we don't live in a perfect world, as the conduct of people like Scarborough makes increasingly clear."ReplyDelete
Rittenhouse shot 3 people, but it is Scarborough's conduct that is wrong?
Somerby implies that we can only criticize what Rittenhouse did "in a perfect world", as if it is extreme or unreasonable to expect that 17 year olds will not use AR-15s to shoot at anyone.
Scarborough talks off the top of his head. People who do that will get details wrong, compared to those who publish written news reports or make scripted statements. It would be better if he got all of the details correct, but no one can do that accurately from memory, especially day after day. So, I don't consider Somerby's attack on Scarborough to be an example of propaganda or malfeasance.
I do consider Somerby's failure to acknowledge Rittenhouse's violence as abhorrent to be a major fault and an indication of where Somerby's political sympathies actually lie. The right has closed ranks around Rittenhouse, is approving of his violence and thereby encouraging such acts to occur again, as foolish teens try to gain attention and inclusion in alt-right groups by committing violent acts. This is much the way criminal gangs in urban areas commit killings to gain gang affiliation and status among peers. In the latter case, this is acknowledged as crime. But why is it not similarly recognized as crime when some white boy on the right does it? Somerby doesn't know and doesn't care.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
Talk about howling logical fallacies! Somerby says that war is justified by propaganda, and wishes to conclude that because propaganda is used to justify or criticize Rittenhouse's behavior, this must be war too. That is the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent and it is wrong, since obviously propaganda can be used to promote lots of things that are not war, including religion, politics, and even family values.ReplyDelete
Propositional logic, another course Somerby no doubt earned a gentleman's D in at Harvard.
"Affirming the consequent is the action of taking a true statement P-->Q, to Q, and invalidly concluding its converse Q-->P, to P. The name affirming the consequent derives from using the consequent, Q, of P-->Q to Q, to conclude the antecedent P. " Wikipedia
In this case, war is P and propaganda is Q.
"Setting those trademark rants to the side, the basic coverage at Fox has been much more informative. We expect to explore this state of affairs next week."ReplyDelete
This sentence brings to mind a different poem than those written by Wilfred Owens:
Somerby and Fox, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G!
Somerby is finally letting his freak flag fly! How can someone who calls Tucker Fucking Carlson "informative" be any kind of liberal?
Most likely Bob is just an overwhelmed Boomer.Delete
There's also the possibility he hates something about himself, regrets not accomplishing more in life, etc. And saying nice things about conservatives is his way of taking out that pain on the world.
If only that young woman had not mocked him, or if that black male had not intimidated him.Delete
Which young woman? There have been so many...Delete
The one that laughed at his awkward suggestion.Delete
Yes, the one who resembled Rachel Maddow. Or maybe he now thinks all of the women who rejected him were lesbians?Delete
"McCaskill? Brooks? Givhan?"ReplyDelete
As predicted, Somerby fails to explain why he called Givhan insane, ugly, cruel. Slime and run. That's Somerby's modus.
"Nor will we stop cheering our Caesars as they parade about on TV, performing these new raps on race."ReplyDelete
Actually, the rap on race which Somerby quoted was from 1970, 50 years ago. That's how far back he had to go to find something to illustrate his complaints.
What is the new rap on race? No conservative is willing to talk about race. Obama was the last major figure I remember who was willing to talk about the necessity for such a discussion. Republicans run from it. Somerby wants to pretend that race doesn't exist. No rap there. So what is he referring to?
This is Somerby's version of cancel culture. He seems to want to ban any discussion of race between two or more people -- no rapping allowed. Or else liberals will be called ugly, cruel, and other negative things until they let Rittenhouse off for taking a gun to his political enemies.
"How can someone who calls Tucker Fucking Carlson "informative"..."ReplyDelete
Racism is helluva drug.
"In all my dreams before my helpless sightReplyDelete
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning..."
Interesting that Somerby grabs this quote. It is about the lingering flashback of a comrade in arms who is dying before his eyes. Vivid in its violence.
Does Rittenhouse see the choking, guttering last breaths of the two men he killed? He may be too busy drinking with the Proud Boys to realize what he did when he took someone's life to join a militia.
It horrifies me that Somerby would choose such a quote to further his political purposes. Even death has no meaning for Somerby, and that reveals his affinity with Republicans more than anything he says here.
List of people this blog considers intelligent:ReplyDelete
A pumpkin wearing glasses
A man in Klan robes who is holding a dictionary
Heh, apparently 12 randomly selected citizens feel that self-defense against 'mostly peaceful' rioters is still permissible, dear Bob.ReplyDelete
We're curious: is this going to alter your pessimistic predictions of upcoming collapse? Please enlighten, dear Bob.
You see how well it worked? Russians should have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms.Delete
Those Rittenhouse shootings were the only acts of violence against persons occurring at that riot. Compared to Rittenhouse, the "rioters" were mostly peaceful.Delete
The Rittenhouse case is like the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. Both were clear cases of self-defense, and the defendants were duly acquitted. But, the media reported lie after lie after lie. The also omitted fact after fact after fact. They had a narrative and stuck to it. We simply do not have a reliable media. That's a tragedy.ReplyDelete
Remember these words when more young men start bringing automatic weapons to protests in order to shoot those exercising free speech. Two of the men Rittenhouse killed were unarmed. Remember that, David.Delete
I find myself wondering why Kyle did nothing to put out any of those burning cars. Two were apparently set on fire and the rest caught fire from them until the whole lot burned down. Why did those young men form a bucket brigade to help the owner save some of the very valuable cars? Or any other bystanders, recruited from the militias to guard businesses? What were they doing, besides stalking protesters?Delete
Micah X. Johnson was a clear case of self-defense, but he was murdered by a terrorist mob.
"On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, shooting and killing five officers and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded. Johnson was an Army Reserve Afghan War veteran and was angry over police shootings of Black men. The shooting happened at the end of a protest against the police killings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, which had occurred in the preceding days.Delete
Following the shooting, Johnson fled inside a building on the campus of El Centro College. Police followed him there, and a standoff ensued. In the early hours of July 8, police killed Johnson with a bomb attached to a remote control bomb disposal robot. It was the first time U.S. law enforcement had used a robot to kill a suspect.
The shooting was the deadliest incident for U.S. law enforcement since the September 11, 2001 attacks, surpassing two related March 2009 shootings in Oakland, California, and a November 2009 ambush shooting in Lakewood, Washington, which had each resulted in the death of four police officers and the shooting deaths of both suspects." Wikipedia
Unlike Rittenhouse, he wasn't allowed to leave the scene without police harassment.Delete
There should be a statue of him in every town square. My understanding is the NRA is, thankfully, working on making that happen.
That kind of editorializing by supposed straight reporting "news" organizations is what David is referring to.
It isn't editorializing if that is factually what happened. Note that the comment is about Johnson, not Rittenhouse.Delete
Finding Zimmerman and Rittenhouse not guilty indicates a political agenda, as quite clearly they are both guilty. Zimmerman essentially admitted as much after the trial, Rittenhouse will surely follow suit. One has to embrace an incredibly high level of credulity to avoid realizing these fools never reasonably feared for their safety. Morons like David buy into the lies Somerby and his fellow right wingers spread about witnesses seeing Zimmerman being pummeled, but it is not true, that was not the testimony.Delete
Vile as right wingers like Somerby and David are, society must understand why they misbehave and seek to rectify.
I've seen nothing about Johnson that would keep me from believing he felt his life was in danger from the police.Delete
Do you have anything that proves otherwise?
Both Somerby and Joe Scarborough can exercise their free speech without feeling frightened that someone will kill them. But people can no longer protest in public places without worrying about punks like Rittenhouse, manipulated by the alt-right into shooting unarmed people because he was frightened in a place he deliberately sought out, with a deadly weapon.ReplyDelete
How long before miscreants start threatening Joe and Mika? How long before Somerby feels unsafe sitting under his pear tree and buys an AR-15? All because Somerby doesn't think anyone belongs in jail, no matter how many people they kill, assuming they are white. I've never heard Somerby argue the self-defense rights of Michael Brown.
Somerby might call this disrespectful of The Other, but I find it funny:ReplyDelete
"It was hot; iron cast skillet hot. And God was at a cookout going crazy on the deviled eggs. Maybe because they had paprika sprinkled on the top, or maybe he was trying to prove something to the devil by eating all of the eggs named after him, but at one point, onlookers began chanting “Go! Go! Go!” as God began stuffing his face. In total, he ate some 126 deviled eggs. The crowd went nuts, God waved them off like a champion does then he wandered out into an open patch of land and vomited.
Thus, Florida was born.
Ever since that day, Florida and Texas have been in a full-on fight to determine which is the most deplorable state, and ever since electing Florida congressman Matt Gaetz, Florida has been winning. Like winning winning."
From The Root, about Matt Gaetz offering Kyle Rittenhouse an intern job in congress. This is how the right regards the seriousness of taking another person's life because they were exercising free speech.
Whoa, not just individual deplorables, but whole states are deplorables now. Nice.
We love it when adorables get shrill.
FYI, being a Russian speaker, you may not be aware that the word "shrill" is gendered and mainly used to describe annoying women. Did you intend to slur commenters by implying that they are female? Do you consider being female such a bad thing that it is used as a slur against men you may dislike? Similarly, the term adorable is generally used only with babies, kittens, and women. It makes your use of the word shrill seem pretty deliberate.Delete
Florida Man is an ongoing joke in our culture because of the incredibly boneheaded things people in Florida do. Texas too, now that it has joined the death cult.
I'd hate to have you lose 50% of your tiny audience without knowing what you did wrong linguistically.
Florida has different reporting rules about crime news than other places, that's why they're in the news so often.Delete
Also, they're incredibly overworked for the little pay that the Brahmin class gives them to be their servants.
Maybe we could get alternatives to Manchin, but I doubt calling the red state voters we need to do it literal poop is the inspiring angle that does it.
How do "different reporting rules" cause people to do stupider things?Delete
Vomit isn't poop, in most states besides Florida.
Well Democrat vomit expert, here's your answer.Delete
In other states, reporters often file a request for an arrest record and wait days for its arrival. In Florida, this process is streamlined — journalists have access to daily booking records, so they can get started building their stories almost immediately.
This type of access over the years has also made journalists aware that there’s a wealth of potential crime stories coming out of Florida
You can't be this ignorant and a liberal snob. Pick a struggle sweetheart.Delete
Getting news a little faster doesn't change the weird and stupid things that happen in Florida. Not sure who @10:14 is talking to or about. I think he just likes to call people snobs and sweetheart -- never mind making sense.Delete
There are stories similar to Florida in every state. You read about Florida because of the laws I just described.Delete
May God have mercy on your stupid pigshit brain
We would be thrilled to hear our dear adorables naming more deplorable states in the union. Kansas? Idaho? Don't be shy, dears, please, let it out.Delete
Mao do everybody a favor, go to Las Vegas and get laid. You must be ugly as hell to live on this blog.Delete
"There’s a lot of talk about the “culture war” and how the so-called woke left is ruining the country with its calls for diversity and inclusion. But there’s another war going on and it’s the real kind, being waged with guns and bullets. Don’t kid yourself. Vigilantism in the name of “gun rights” and “self-defense” is now legal and it’s open season on America’s streets." https://digbysblog.net/2021/11/19/rittenhouse-walks/
Maybe this is the war Somerby is talking about, but somehow I doubt it.
As the right celebrates the Rittenhouse verdict, let's remember another self-defense situation that took place on the streets during a demonstration (from Digby):ReplyDelete
"You may recall another very similar case in Portland, Oregon, last year when Michael Reinoehl, an armed antifa supporter, got into a beef with Aaron Danielson, a supporter of the far-right group Patriot Prayer. In this case, the leftist shot and killed the MAGA supporter and Trump, according to his own account of events on Fox News, personally ordered U.S. marshals to hunt Reinoehl down:
Now we sent in the U.S. marshals for the killer, the man that killed the young man in the street. Two and a half days went by, and I put out, “When are you going to go get him?” And the U.S. marshals went in to get him, and in a short period of time, they ended in a gunfight. This guy was a violent criminal, and the U.S. marshals killed him. And I’ll tell you something — that’s the way it has to be. There has to be retribution when you have crime like this.
According to this rundown of the events by the New York Times, it’s clear that Reinoehl was unarmed at the time of his death and that marshals opened fire without warning as he walked to his car. It was an extrajudicial execution, apparently ordered by the president of the United States"
So, these self-defense rights are available to boys like Rittenhouse, but not to those on the left or to black men or minorities. So, don't try to exercise any of these self-defense rights unless you also have that good ole white privilege and aren't a commie (i.e., not a Republican).
"The right-wing congressman [Madison Cawthorn] posted a video shortly after the Rittenhouse verdict in which he called the jury's decision a victory for freedom.ReplyDelete
"Kyle Rittenhouse is not guilty, my friends!" he said. "You have a right to defend yourself! Be armed, be dangerous, and be moral!"
Cawthorn also posted a text message on the video offering Rittenhouse an internship at his office."
"You can even apply for membership[ in the post-tribal human race."ReplyDelete
So now Somerby gets to decide who is a human being and who isn't? That's a slippery slope -- ask anyone classified as a subhuman drag upon the state by the Nazis.
The Rectification of Names blog discusses Rittenhouse's many lies (before the verdict was handed down today):ReplyDelete
"From a headline, now gone, in The New York Times continuing updates page on the Rittenhouse trial:
Kyle Rittenhouse, who styled himself a medic, said he is now studying nursing.
As the report clarifies, he was lying both times. When he and his friend Dominick joined the crowd on the night of the shootings and he told people he was making it up. He doesn't even have a high school diploma—he dropped out of school three years ago, and I can't find any suggestion online that he earned a GED (he was taking online GED courses in June). Not that being a high school dropout makes you a bad person! But habitual lying does make you a liar.
By the same token he is not studying nursing at Arizona State University, as he testified under oath:
Jay Thorne, a spokesman for the university, said in an email that Mr. Rittenhouse had enrolled in an online program that allows students to take classes before seeking admission to the university. The online program is not affiliated with the university’s nursing school or any other degree program, he said. The session in which Mr. Rittenhouse is enrolled began on Oct. 13.
What he started doing a month ago is pretty clear: taking advantage of Arizona's alternative high school equivalency program, the College Credit Pathway, which can give you a diploma for passing 25 credits' worth of 100-level courses from, say, ASU Online's Universal Learner Courses, $25 to enroll, and you only pay ($400) if you pass."
And the article goes on...
I find this an interesting comment to that thread:Delete
"Point of information: It's not an "automatic weapon". It's strictly semi-auto. Although you can pull the trigger fast enough as to make very little difference.
I point this out not to be needlessly pedantic, but because the reich wing gun nuts will seize on that mistake and use it to dismiss any points we make.
As for the rest of your comment, the judge (Who I think is a frikkin' lunatic) wouldn't allow into evidence Rittenhouse's pre shooting statements that he WANTED to shoot people. He's a sociopath."
The use of minor errors to discredit bigger statements is exactly what Somerby does here.
And of course he wanted to shoot people. That is obvious in all of his actions. For example, after he had shot one person, he went on shooting people.
It's good that dembots know that "automatic weapon" is a lie.Delete
...and what about "crossed state lines", dear dembot? Is crossing state lines somehow unseemly in the US of A nowadays? Does "crossed state lines" discredit bigger statements, whatever those might be?
According to Somerby, a lie must be a deliberate falsehood told with full knowledge of the truth in order to deceive someone. If someone doesn't know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic, they are not telling any kind of lie.Delete
Crossing state lines with a weapon is unseemly and even illegal depending on the state. But the point is that Rittenhouse went to some effort to go to a place with a weapon (even if it came from a friend's house) to shoot people. Kenosha is still 20 miles from Antioch.
Who's crossing state lines with a weapon? Is it you, dear dembot? Because it certainly wasn't young Mister Rittenhouse.Delete
So, another lie. Oh, dear...
I’d like to know if there’s being any investigation into why NBC News had a freelance MSNBC employee following the jurors’ bus so intently that he ran a red light in keeping up with it and was stopped by the police.ReplyDelete
The investigation I heard showed that the freelance (which means not an employee of MSNBC) journalist was not targeting jurors.Delete
Here is MSNBC's statement:
"NBC News denied that a freelancer was attempting to contact jurors from the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, seemingly contradicting Judge Bruce Schroeder after he banned MSNBC from the courthouse Thursday over the alleged incident.
While NBC News told Fox News Digital that the man was indeed a freelance MSNBC employee, it denied that he intended to photograph or contact jurors in the explosive case.
"Last night, a freelancer received a traffic citation. While the traffic violation took place near the jury van, the freelancer never contacted or intended to contact the jurors during deliberations, and never photographed or intended to photograph them. We regret the incident and will fully cooperate with the authorities on any investigation," an NBC spokesperson told Fox News Digital. "
The windows of the bus were covered, so there was no opportunity for taking photos. The only actual fact here, beyond MSNBC's statement, is that he was ticketed for running a red light. That happens where I live, even in the absence of highly publicized trials. For all anyone knows, he could have been trying to get out of the ticket after running a light for unrelated reasons (inattention, being late, going too fast to stop).
What do you think could be going on, Cecelia?
It would've been interesting if MSNBC admitted that they attempted to intimidate the jury, dear dembot.Delete
Their non-denial denial, on the other hand, is simply boring, and there's no reason whatsoever to waste so many pixels reproducing it.
How would his actions in any way intimidate the jury when they couldn't see him because the bus windows were covered?Delete
MSNBC exists to collect and disseminate news. If this freelancer (which means he was not employed by MSNBC) did anything at all, it was most likely in support of those activities. Their denial was an actual full denial, not a non-denial denial.
Plus, the journalist was stopped a block behind the bus, not following it, just on the same street.Delete
Anonymouse 7:09pm, the man told the police that he had been following the bus and had been instructed to do it by a supervisor.Delete
Yes, no one ever tried to get out of a ticket before.Delete
Let’s see what he’s trying to get out of.Delete
A ticket. Can't you read?Delete
Storm shelters are less concrete than you.Delete
@Corby 6:43 PMDelete
Let us quote Matt Taibbi for you:
"...Police stopped a man named James Morrison who was apparently following a jury bus, and said he was acting at the direction of a New York-based MSNBC producer named Irene Byon. Even if all you’re after is a post-verdict interview, if a jury gets the slightest whiff that the press is searching out their names and addresses, that’s clear intimidation. People will worry about the safety of their spouses and children as they’re deliberating. Not that it matters to anyone but the defense, prosecution, judge, jury, and taxpayers, but you’re also putting the trial at risk. I’ve covered plenty of celebrity trials, from Michael Jackson to the Enron defendants, and know the identifying-jurors practice isn’t unheard of. However, in a powder-keg case like this, it’s bonkers to play it any way but straight."
Hope this helps.
The man obviously lied about his connection with MSNBC. He may have lied about other things in order to evade a ticket.Delete
Taibbi is exaggerating about the concern of jurors. The windows in the bus were covered and no one on that bus (except the driver) would have noticed that a car that was a block behind the bus seemed to be going the same direction. This is specious and it assumes motives not in evidence on the part of the man who was stopped for running the light.
And here you post speculation by Taibbi as if it were true. Taibbi isn't Morrison. He wasn't there and he doesn't know Morrison. The rest is surmise without facts.
Dembot, MSNBC did not deny that James Morrison was following the jury bus, at the direction of an MSNBC producer.Delete
That's why the statement 5:00 PM dembot quoted is a non-denial denial. And that's all there is to it. Sorry.
Here is a black writer's view of the Rittenhouse verdict:ReplyDelete
I don’t know what’s going on, that’s why I hope it’s being investigated.ReplyDelete
We know what NBC says this guy was not doing. So what was he doing, NBC? That’s the question, rather than what I think he was doing.
It doesn’t matter if the windows of the bus were darkened. The jurors would exit it at some point.
Word is the freelance journalist followed the jury to protect a used car lot, and provide medical attention.Delete
"Word is the freelance journalist followed the jury to protect a used car lot, and provide medical attention."Delete
That makes sense. Good to hear it was nothing nefarious.
If the guy were successful at doing something, it was obviously in service of those who supported this Rittenhouse verdict, so why are you worried about it? If he wasn't supporting a not-guilty verdict, he obviously failed at whatever it was. Either way, you should be happy.Delete
Anonymouse, then you must be scared to death.Delete
I don't see how you reach that conclusion from anything anyone has said here. Do you imagine we are out looting and setting cars on fire?Delete
Cecelia, we had our own wannabe cop loser high school dropout kid who took an AR-15 to the King Sooper and killed innocent store clerks and shoppers. This is no different. Ours will be convicted of murder because he didn't choose a demonstration as the venue to do his killing. Why should that make any difference, you should ask yourself?Delete
Of all the things to investigate and learn about in the world, this is what interests you?Delete
You are a lost soul without a moral compass.
No, Anonymouse 7:15pm, this comment is indicative of that. It speaks volumes that you didn’t noice.Delete
“If the guy were successful at doing something, it was obviously in service of those who supported this Rittenhouse verdict, so why are you worried about it? If he wasn't supporting a not-guilty verdict, he obviously failed at whatever it was. Either way, you should be happy.”
Ok 7:29 you get to the bottom of whatever that guy was doing, never let anyone say you are not a productive member of society.Delete
Btw a guy in a Ford truck ran a red light in Toledo yesterday, if you could look into that when you are done with the journalist case.
Anonymouse8:02pm, sure,thing, Mr. Todd.Delete
Meanwhile the Democratic Party-led House okayed a $2 Trillion bill designed to help the people of this country.Delete
Womp-womp. Just when the Right thought today would be a day to celebrate.
Anonymouse 8:23pm, see any anonymices, celebrating here today?Delete
You weren't invited to the celebrations, for obvious reasons.Delete
I hope you enjoyed it though you were obviously partying by yourself.Delete
All your pals were here mucking around in their usual recriminations.
No, liberals everywhere have joined hands and raised a toast to the House which passed BBB today! That surely outweighs the dubious victory of letting a stone cold killer go free that you are considering good news.Delete
Right. We’ve seen the joy and gladness here all day.Delete
This verdict is an injustice -- one among many. In contrast BBB represents an important accomplishment for everyone who will benefit.Delete
The comments here would have been the same, regardless of what else may be happening on other topics. Nothing about BBB changes the fact that Rittenhouse murdered two men and was let off by a bigoted, incompetent judge. You should be weeping over that Cecelia, if you love justice. But you don't. Like most conservatives, you only care about yourself.
You’re going to have characterize a great many people, including the jurors, as only caring about themselves.Delete
It might be a better idea to consider that the jury deliberated on this for four days. It wasn’t a flip—only caring about themselves decision— just because your silly self doesn’t agree with them.
He was found not guilty, because he "felt" his life was in danger.ReplyDelete
This trial should be the final nail in the coffin for the argument that feelings don't matter.
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