RED AND BLUE BLUE CHRISTMAS: Two other provisions involve "plain texts!"

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 22, 2023

The 14th amendment doesn't: Later today, we'll show you part of what you missed on the Fox News Channel last night.

Here's a spoiler alert:

Our journalistic culture is thoroughly broken when the material in question can appear as part of a prime time show on a major "news channel." Also, when the rest of the journalistic world averts its eyes, gazes away, agrees to say and do nothing.

Our red tribe "journalistic" elite is hopeless, disordered, deranged. That said, is our blue tribe journalistic elite really that much better?

That question popped into our heads when we watched today's Morning Joe—specifically, when we watched an extremely lengthy, taped account of Donald Trump's legal entanglements. 

Our youthful analysts wrung their hands, then tore madly at their hair, as this lengthy tape played. They were filled with despair at our blue tribe's deep investment in this dead-end train of thought—at the lack of interest in all other topics our blue tribe elite displays. 

That said, we thought Donny Deutsch offered a deeply insightful set of remarks after this lengthy tape played. We'll bring that material to you when videotape becomes available—and no, that won't be today.

Alas! Within our failing journalistic order, our red and blue elites are thoroughly segregated at this point in time. Hannity still screeches on Fox every night—but the late Alan Colmes is long, long gone, replaced by a red tribe studio audience which applauds every pronouncement.

Our professors have nothing to say about this. With that, we return to yesterday's question about the judgment which came down, on Tuesday afternoon, from Colorado's Supreme Court.

For yesterday's report, click here.

Should Donald J. Trump be barred from the Colorado ballot? Presumably, the U.S. Supreme Court will rule on that remarkable question—but how is the matter being reviewed by blue journalistic elites?

Yesterday, we showed you a set of blue tribe observers making a certain statement. They referred to the simple, clear language, to the plain text, found in this, the relevant part of the 14th amendment:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

That's the provision which led to Candidate Trump's banishment from the Colorado ballot. One liberal journalist after another has described the "simple language," the "plain text," of that newly famous passage.

In fact, the relevant language in that passage isn't simple or plain at all.  It's a comment on the analytical skills we bring to our failing national discourse that so many blue tribe journalists have rushed to describe it that way.

In fairness, let's be fair! When the 14th amendment was written, there would have been little uncertainty about the relevant part of that provision.

The passage in question says that a person couldn't hold certain federal offices if he had "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against [the Constitution of the United States]." 

That was very plain language—back then. Here's what it plainly meant:

The United States had recently emerged from the Civil War. A federal fort had been fired upon. Various states had then declared that they were leaving the union.

Those states had declared themselves a new nation, with a whole new name and a new Constitution. They had assembled an army to help them in that undertaking. That army had fought for four years against the army of the United States, in a bloody war whose mortality rates were unknown in previous history.

With that as the historical backdrop, let the word go forth to the nations:

In 1866 and 1868, it wasn't hard to know what the authors of the 14th amendment had in mind when they referred to people who had had "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the United States. 

What rebellion did the authors have in mind? It would have been amazingly obvious at that point in time. 

In that sense, the passage plainly was a "plain text"—at that point in time. 

That actually was a plain bit of text at the time—but is it a plain text today? We'd say the answer is plainly no. This is why we say that:

As of 1868, everyone would have known what "insurrection or rebellion" the authors had in mind. For better or worse, the authors provided no further definition of terms—no further explanation which could be used, moved forward, to determine whether some future erstwhile candidate had engaged in prohibited conduct.

This leads us to Candidate Trump. Has he engaged in an "insurrection or rebellion" against the United States?

Josh Marshall is very sharp—and he's a blue tribe voter. That said, it's as we showed you yesterday. After referring to the amendment's "plain text," Josh went on to say this as part of the analysis we posted:

For myself, I’m equivocal about the whole idea [of barring Trump from the ballot]...I’m not totally sure the disqualification provision applies to his set of facts. I have some small questions about whether this passage applies to presidents. I have bigger questions about whether the passage’s “insurrection” matches Trump’s insurrection.

Josh Marshall is very smart, and here's one way you can tell:

He says that he's not sure whether Trump engaged in an "insurrection" which fits within the meaning of the 14th amendment's language. He isn't sure whether Trump did that—and the 14th amendment offers no guidance as to what that crucial term should be understood to mean.

In fairness to Donald J. Trump, let's take note of this:

He didn't claim to be starting a new nation in the aftermath of the 2020 election. He didn't state that Mar-a-Lago and West Palm Beach were seceding the union. 

He didn't assemble an army in any straightforward sense of the term. He didn't fire on any federal forts. He didn't write a new Constitution or march on Gettysburg.

In our view, what he did do was insane, but was it an "insurrection or rebellion" within the meaning of the 14th amendment? Because he's smart, Josh Marshall says he isn't sure. 

For ourselves, we wouldn't necessarily say that Trump engaged in an "insurrection" at all—and the rather slapdash 14th amendment offered no guidance as to what future generations should take that term to mean in any future cases.

Because he's smart, Josh Marshall said he isn't sure that Trump engaged in an insurrection of the type envisioned by the 14rh amendment. And yet, in the same passage we quoted, Josh started by referring to the amendment's "plain text!"

In fact, there's nothing simple, clear or plain about that part of the 14th amendment! As a way of illustrating that point, let's compare that passage to two other parts of the Constitution which bar people from the ballot.

In the past few days, many blue tribe pundits and journalists have referred to this part of the Constitution:  

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

There! It's quite conventional to bar people from the ballot on a constitutional basis, these self-assured savants have said.

Plainly, that assertion is true. The difference would be this:

That passage does involve a "plain text." It involves a "plain text" because everyone agrees on the way we determine a candidate's age.

Imaginably, a candidate could come along whose birthdate was in dispute. But as a general matter, everyone will agree whether erstwhile Candidate A really has, or actually hasn't, attained that required age.

We all agree on what it means to say that someone has "attained to the Age of thirty five Years." But, as Josh's post makes clear, we don't all agree, in any way, or what the terms "insurrection or rebellion" might plausibly mean in the current context. 

One passage does involve a plain text. The other passage doesn't. While we're at it, let's consider another passage in the Constitution which describes the way a federal office holder can be barred from office:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

There! There's another way a person can be barred from holding future office! But in that case, the Constitution provides a clear direction as to who will render the disqualification, and as to the process by which the judgment will be reached.

The Constitution gives the Senate a lot of leeway concerning the basis on which it can decide to convict an impeached office holder. But in this case, we're at least told who will make the decision—who will decide that a person can't run for any future office. 

The 14th amendment offers no such guidance. It doesn't tell us who will decide that the erstwhile candidate has engaged in a "rebellion." Nor does it try to define what a "rebellion" is.

Should Trump be barred from the Colorado ballot? We regard Trump as deeply disordered, but our inclination would be to say no.

That said, we aren't here to argue that point today. We're only here to say this:

There is nothing simple, clear or plain about the relevant constitutional text. 

Back in 1866 and 1868, it would have been perfectly clear who was being barred from holding federal office. Everyone would have known what "insurrection or rebellion" was being discussed.

In that sense, the relevant part of the 14th amendment actually was a "plain text"—at that point in time. That said, it isn't a "plain text" today. This is a point Josh helps make clear when he says that he himself isn't sure if Trump engaged in an "insurrection" as intended by that text.

Should Trump be barred from the ballot? You can argue it flat or round. After that, you can deal with the consequences, with the reactions.

You can argue it either way. Our point today is this:

No, that actually isn't a simple / clear / plain text. The fact that so many blue tribe leaders rushed to say that it was helps us see how limited our analytical skills really are.

It also showed that, as sacred Chekhov said, "the most complicated and difficult part is only just beginning" as we try to assemble a workable and intelligent red-and-blue public discourse.

In truth, that's a rather fuzzy text. It leaves us to handle the hard part.

No professor is going to step forward to help us sift that point. When it comes to our failing discourse, they walked off their posts a long time ago, nor is there any sign that they have any plans to come back.

Meanwhile, Elvis warned of a blue, blue Christmas. Did you watch red cable last night?

This afternoon: What the red tribe offered last night

Still coming: What Donny Deutsch said


116 comments:

  1. I'm sure that psycho bitch will be weighing in soon.

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    1. Merry Christmas to you, too!

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    2. 11:18, it’s not nice to call Cecelia that, even if it’s accurate.

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  2. Great. Bob now tells us the part of constitution he doesn’t like so we don’t have to pay attention to it. Cry me a river, well regulated militia breath.
    Bob says he would necessarily say Trump participated in an insurrection. Well, people are in jail now who have been convicted of that very crime who say they took their guidance from Trump.
    At least Bob has stopped calling the Colorado judgement “insane.” So the originalist theory should be tested by the Supreme Court. If they reject the 14th Amendment perhaps it should be repealed. Kind of looks like a win win to me.

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    1. He previously objected to impeachment, because “our system shouldn’t run on impeachment”, as if the impeachments of trump were just run of the mill political machinations, and ignoring the fact that impeachment is an original part of the constitution that serves to oust an unfit president.

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    2. And, like everybody else, he ignores that Impeachment along party lines began with Bill Clinton.

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    3. No, impeachment of Andrew Johnson, a Democrat, was also along party lines for opposing reconstruction plans and policies of radical Republicans.

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  3. This CO decision as well as the umpteen criminal charges are a double edged sword. I think my attitude is pretty typical for conservatives. I see them as instances of corruption by various Democrats They don’t make me like Trump, but the do make it essential that these corrupt Democrats be defeated at the polls. Therefore I expect a highly motivated Republican effort in November.

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    1. DiC - Could you specify? Which Democrats, exactly, do you see as corrupt, and what have they done that demonstrates their corruption?

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    2. Sorry - that was by Dogface George.

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    3. Obviously David regards Court rulings that go against his views not just incorrect but corrupt. This is the core
      of the pious vanity that allows the MAGA head to lie and lie again. As Jim Jordon put it “winning is all that matters.” Small, stupid men like Dave and Jim have all but ruined the Country.

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    4. I think David may be suggesting that it is corrupt to try to hold Trump accountable for his actions.

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    5. George - the Special Prosecutor Jack Smith is seeking to "get" Trump any way he can and as quickly as he can. He is not trying to be fair IMO. He wants to prevent Trump from being re-elected President.

      The NY prosecutors are not hiding that that their goal is to get Trump, rather than to conduct a fair investigation IMO.

      The people in the FBI who decided to conduct an unprecedented raid on Mar a Lago, even while negotiations to return the material were going on, were trying to "get Trump" IMO.

      Obviously the four Democrat partisans on the CO Supreme Court had no interest in fairness. Even the other 3 Democrats on that Court disagreed with them.

      IMO a key word is "unprecedented'." What we see in all these cases, as well as others, is prosecutions that are unprecedented. That's the "tell" that these are efforts to get Trump, rather than normal investigations.

      As I said yesterday, "unprecedented" is the opposite of how they should behave. To prevent someone from running for President is an incredibly strong action. It's what we see in Russia and in banana republics. So radical an action should have the strongest possible basis. Instead, many of the actions seem be based on novel theories never before applied.

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    6. The plaintiffs in the lawsuit decided by the CO Supreme Court include Republicans not just Democrats. There are some Republicans who do not think Trump should serve as president after committing an insurrection.

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    7. No, I'm serious, DiC. If you make public accusations that certain people are corrupt, don't you think you should say who, exactly, you're accusing, and what, exactly, they have done?

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    8. David says: "George - the Special Prosecutor Jack Smith is seeking to "get" Trump any way he can and as quickly as he can."

      That is his specific job. He is a prosecutor. Investigators (who do try to be fair and unbiased) collect evidence and give it to the prosecutor who brings the legal case against the person charged by a grand jury. The prosecutor tries to prove the case against the charged person, as definitively and expeditiously (quickly) as possible.

      We have an adversarial court system. The prosecutor tries to prove guilt while the defense attorney(s) hired by the charged person tries to show that the prosecutor has not made his case by mounting a defense against the charges.

      It is very silly to claim that Smith is not trying to be fair. It is even sillier to claim that he doesn't want to see Trump reelected, when his actual goal is to convict Trump of charges that could result in Trump going to jail. This isn't about the election, it is about what Trump did to the country and its people and holding Trump to account for his crimes (this is a criminal proceeding).

      If Jack Smith were Biden's campaign manager, you could say he doesn't want to see Trump reelected. Smith is a special counsel working for the Department of Justice specifically to prosecute the cases against Donald Jessica Trump. Of course he wants to see him found guilty.

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    9. It is unprecedented that a president leaving office would deliberately steal and then withhold documents from the national archives, even after being issued a subpoena for the return of those documents. But it goes beyond that because there is evidence that Trump shared highly classified documents with people who lacked the security clearance to view them or hear about the info they contained. THAT is the unprecedented part, not the prosecution for that theft, nor the efforts to retrieve the documents, not all of which have been returned even after the raid on Mar a Lago.

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    10. This discussion illustrates why it is impossible to talk to Trump supporters. Their view of what Trump did and why it is important (or not) is so skewed that there is no common ground for any discussion. How can David think it was OK for Trump to steal and display classified info after leaving the presidency, much less OK to foment a plot to stay in office and an attack on the sitting Congress when it tried to certify the election result? How can David think it is OK for Trump to do any of the fraudulent and dishonest things he has done, from sexually assaulting and then defaming E. Jean Carroll to defrauding students at Trump University, to the proven tax and business fraud of the Trump Organization, to his cheating at golf. All of those things would disqualify Trump as a candidate for most reasonable people, because they show a lack of character that makes him unfit for the job. But not for David or the other MAGAts. So there is really nothing to talk about with these people.

      I suspect that if I were to meet Somerby, I would be unable to find a basis for discussion with him either.

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    11. I guess where we differ might be in what it is we consider "unprecedented." You seem to think that it is the investigations/prosecutions which are unprecedented (although the Clintons might disagree). I think it is the alleged crimes which are unprecedented.

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    12. Actually, now that I think about it - what do you think of the Hunter Biden prosecution, DiC? The alleged crimes are low-level tax avoidance and a trivial gun offense, yet we have both a special counsel appointed to prosecute a private citizen AND a House committee investigation to boot. Are you troubled that these "unprecedented" investigations may be "corrupt," or do you see corruption only on the Democratic side?

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    13. And does it complicate your feelings of Democratic corruption that Hunter Biden is being prosecuted so relentlessly by a Justice Department that falls under the executive control of his Dad?

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    14. Violent state Zionism poisoned David's mind.

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    15. BTW - Jack Smith is not a Democrat. Does that complicate your theory of Democratic corruption at all?

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    16. George
      1. Jack Smith was a known hit man" when he was appointed.
      2. It was obvious years ago that VP Biden's Ukraine policy was influenced by money paid to Hunter.
      3. George, the media you follow says Hunter was prosecuted relentlessly. The conservative media says that the Government bent over backwards to not investigate and prosecute him. Conservative media point out that due to prosecutorial delays, the statute of limitations has run on some of Hunter's alleged crimes.

      I am not interested in looking debating Hunter. It would amount to a battle of snippets on either side. The situation is that the two media sides give very different pictures of Hunter's investigation and prosecution. Anyone who wants to see all the arguments can easily use Google to find both sides.

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    17. 1. No.
      2. No.
      3. How many years of investigation will it take to be satisfactory?

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    18. @David 10:26 PM,
      you've forgotten the amazing super-chutzpah plea deal he "negotiated" with the government. With no jail time and immunity forever.

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    19. Prosecuting war crimes is being a "hit man"? Now we see how David feels about international law. Conservative media is wrong.

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    20. David,
      Hunter Biden not paying taxes makes him smart.
      Do you think we should charge smart people for doing smart things? Isn't that just punishing success?

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    21. Trump was recorded pressuring two Michigan GOP canvassers not to certify 2020 election results, report says
      The Detroit News reviewed recordings of a Nov. 17, 2020, phone call in which Trump personally pressured the two officials not to certify the election results.

      Clear unambiguous slam dunk evidence of Donald J Chickenshit violating election law.

      Magat-head DiC will politely ignore and reprise his aggrieve conservative act. Fuck him, he's not worth talking to.

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    22. David will never quit Trump because David loves Trump's bigotry.
      Think of David as the typical Republican voter.

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    23. DiC - You strike me as pretty reasonable, but I wonder about your accusation that Jack Smith is a known “hit man.” I don’t even know what you mean by that - do you mean anything other than that he’s a career prosecutor? And if so, do you have any evidence to support your accusation?

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  4. Yawn. How about this: deep state operators are scared shitless, and they are trying to prevent Donald J Trump from running, by hook or by crook. Full stop. This has nothing whatsoever to do with any amendments, plain language or not.

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    1. Biden is polling very poorly so they must be very desperate.

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    2. The bluster of the reactionary liar and A Holes have lost you the popular vote in 7 out of the last 8 Presidential Elections. Bullshit from idiots like you two won’t get you over the top next year either.

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    3. Sure, Biden could still pull out a win. It's looking pretty bad though. People don't like him. No one should be surprised.

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    4. @12:44 PM
      I don't know. I didn't think they would run Biden in 2020, but they did. To run him in 2024 seems completely insane, but hey, it looks like they don't care about the public sentiment at all. Just getting the vote-count. So, how he's polling is irrelevant.

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    5. Anyone but Trump includes Biden. People do like him, they just worry about his age. So would Trump supporters worry about Trump's age if they had even a small shred of common sense -- but they don't. Dems will rally around Biden when it becomes clear that no one else will be running and Trump must be stopped. And they will win, because there are more people aganst Trump than there are MAGAts, no matter how rabid or recommitted to Trump they are.

      You guys should be happy Newsom isn't running. He is more leftist than Biden and has a more charismatic and energetic persona, so he would be a formidable opponent who can and would enact more progressive measures than Biden has done. The right doesn't know when it has it good.

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    6. I don't see any evidence that people like Biden. Why would someone like him?

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    7. Biden is nothing. Do you really think he's making any decisions? The vote will be about the general direction: more foreign wars and imperial projects with (inevitably) lower standard of living vs. revival of the American economy.

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    8. I don't see any reason to consider the race for the presidency as a popularity contest, although people vote for many reasons, including looks, gender, what their spouses do, etc.

      These attacks on Biden by right wing trolls are transparent. Whatever criterion one applies to Biden, Trump fails massively. The main concern of those who vote for Biden is not going to be his appeal but the need to stop Trump. Meanwhile, the economy and our society are both doing fine under Biden's leadership.

      What is it about Somerby that attracts so many right wing trolls and fanboys?

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    9. It's because he is funded by Russia via Iran and Qatar.

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    10. "Whatever criterion one applies to Biden, Trump fails massively."

      Not on war.

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    11. Maybe 2:00 pm is right. It comes down to war. Vote for Biden if you are for tons and tons more war. Vote for Trump as a need to stop our war machine.

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    12. In fact, if Trump is incapacitated and Haley becomes the nominee, then the current imperial management is probably the better choice. Still horrible, but probably, judging by Haley's rhetoric, the lesser evil.

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    13. The only war we were in was in Afghanistan, and it was Biden, not Trump, who got us out of that war.

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    14. Yeah, right. What's you opinion of the shining new Domino Theory©?

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    15. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrQ0RzCXsAEgWfJ?format=png&name=900x900

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    16. "Yeah, right."

      Yes, that's right. The only war we were or are in was in Afghanistan. Trump said he'd get us out; Biden got us out.

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    17. As far as your Domino Theory, I think the proper response is to massively arm Ukraine so that Ukraine can attrit Russia's military capabilities. Unfortunately, this proper response is being threatened by Republicans.

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    18. My point exactly. Wars and massive, bloody and expensive imperial projects, with lower standard of living vs. reviving American economy.

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    19. Massively arming Ukraine is "a war we are in", financially speaking.

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    20. There's much more to it than just "arming" of course. Blowing up pipelines. Creating conditions for new massive alliances, like Russia-China-Iran, for example. Destroying the EU, economically and politically. Undermining the dollar. It's huge thing.

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    21. There’s a huge difference between providing arms to a country so it can defend itself and providing soldiers that come home in body bags.

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    22. I don't want to live in a country where the President doesn't want to fuck his own daughter.
      I am a Republican voter.

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  5. "Also, when the rest of the journalistic world averts its eyes, gazes away, agrees to say and do nothing."

    It is not the job of the media to be policing other media. Journalists report news. It is not news when Fox reports disinformation.

    The solution for Somerby should be to debunk the incorrect info on Fox (and elsewhere as appropriate) and avoid reading news media that are nothing but partisan propaganda mills, as Fox News clearly is. Attacking the mainstream media (which does a reasonable job) as if it were responsible for Fox and other right wing outlets, is just an excuse for making the competent media seem somehow deficient. That is Somerby goal, not correcting anything that appears on Fox (much of which he dutifully repeats here so liberals who might have missed it get exposed to bad info).

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    1. I wouldn't say "nothing but partisan propaganda mills." However, IMO all the media are partisan to some degree. That's tragic. It means that we have no source that's guaranteed reliable. It means that one must read media on both sides to have any hope of getting a complete picture of what's going on. Reading only one side, even the New York Times, gives a partial picture.

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    2. This is a tautology: reading only one side gives a partial picture to the extent that one side is only part of the available media. But are partisan propaganda mills actually media in the same sense as the NY Times? I don't think so. There is the matter of motive. The NY Times is trying to be a newspaper. Fox News is trying to get Trump and other Republicans elected to office. That makes them not-media but an organ of the Republican party.

      I think it is important to consider the goals and purposes of the media you consume. For example, Somerby says he is a liberal blogger musing on the "mainstream "press corps" and the american discourse" but that isn't what he does here. Today he is not focused on media but is arguing that the CO supreme court should not have disallowed Trump from its state ballot for being an insurrectionist. A person actually musing about the mainstream media would be examining the coverage of this important issue, not writing an essay about how Trump shouldn't have been stricken due to the wording of the 14th Amendment. That is something a partisan does, and a right wing one at that.

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    3. Yes, Bob gave up his role as a critic of the political press long ago; he likes fulsome preaching at liberals much more.
      David gives us his blanket dismissal of the Press, feigning objectivity, but when Fox lies are to his liking he’s happy to climb aboard the ship of fools.

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    4. However, IMO all the media are partisan to some degree. That's tragic. It means that we have no source that's guaranteed reliable.

      Fact of the matter is, a return to those good Walter Cronkite days that DiC yearns for would mean a fucking circus clown conman like Donald J Chickenshit would be laughed off the stage and his sorry ass corrupt kicked back to Queens ripping off morons at his corrupt university.

      But you see how this works now? As long as people like DiC have FoxNOOZ and right wing hate radio pumping out bullshit 24/7, and fascist billionaire funding right wing "think" tanks to plaster the walls with their bullshit, DiC has cover to claim he just can't trust anybody. Bwahahaha!!!

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    5. Off the meds again, 11:05 AM?

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    6. Somerby yearns for Cronkite too. @11:05 makes sense to me.

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  6. DiC - PCE down to 2.6% YoY! I guess Biden's Inflation Reduction Act is having its intended effect.

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    1. David — vote for Biden.

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    2. Next year Powell will cut the rates, to give the incumbent a boost, and the inflation rates will get up again. So, you may want to start getting excited about the gdp while ignoring the inflation.

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    3. The Fed is saying that it may gradually increase interest rates over the coming year to achieve its goal of 2.0% inflation. The point is not to give any incumbent a boost but to meet monetary goals.

      https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/banking/advice/fed-holds-rates-steady-with-cuts-expected-in-2024-heres-what-that-means-for-your-money/

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    4. CNET is the expert in finances now?

      https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/fed-likely-hold-rates-steady-signal-couple-cuts-2024-2023-12-13/

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    5. "Next year Powell will cut the rates, to give the incumbent a boost"

      Jay Powell is a Republican.

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    6. I don't know if he is, but so is Liz Cheney. So what.

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    7. Spoken like the Trump-loving Republican that you are. The point is that even a never-Trump Republican is not working to elect Democrats, so your comment makes no sense.

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    8. If you think I'm a "Trump-loving Republican," then you have such serious reading comprehension problems that I cannot possibly help you.

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    9. @4:12 PM
      I believe the word-salad @3:44 PM was a reply to my @2:04 PM

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    10. And, BTW, it was Trump who first appointed Powell to be chairman of the fed. There's no reason whatsoever - other than your fevered imagination - to think that Powell is a never-Trump Republican.

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    11. You can have your Powell. The point is, if Trump is the nominee, the fed will definitely cut the rate next year, to give the incumbent a boost. There is no doubt about it.

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    12. 4:15 persuades me I misread the point of 3:44, so I apologize - and it makes me embarrassed that I made a crack about your reading comprehension skills and your fevered imagination. Sorry!

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    13. I think the fed will cut rates next year, probably on about three occasions, but not to help Biden. Rates were raised to contain inflation; inflation is contained; rates should now come down to facilitate GDP growth.

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    14. Whatever is done in the election year, it's all about the election, and nothing else.

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    15. George, you're dealing with Weirdo Mao. It's like arguing with a broken record that keeps saying everything is a conspiracy. When you show him how he's wrong, he just doubles down, with no evidence for his tinfoil-hat claims

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    16. Correction: The rates were raised because labor had leverage over capital. Slowing down the economy to take that leverage back from labor to and give it to business owners, is why the fed raised interest rate.
      Raising taxes (if there is too much money in the economy), or enforcing anti-trust/ anti-monopoly regulations is how you lower inflation.

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    17. And the internet is no better than a fax machine.

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    18. George - I appreciate you bringing economic facts into the discussion. However, it is not yet established that inflation is contained. We appear to be moving closer and closer toward the goal of 2 per cent, but there is no guarantee that trend will continue. We hope the trend continues, but time will tell.

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    19. There are no guarantees in life about anything. Worrying about that is immobilizing and prevents happiness.

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  7. "Back in 1866 and 1868, it would have been perfectly clear who was being barred from holding federal office. Everyone would have known what "insurrection or rebellion" was being discussed.

    In that sense, the relevant part of the 14th amendment actually was a "plain text"—at that point in time. That said, it isn't a "plain text" today."

    Somerby today ignores the comment posted yesterday about this subject. It contained a discussion by the justices, excerpted from the CO decision, that examined the intent of those who enacted the 14th Amendment, including who was meant to be encompassed by it.

    Given that the justices debated this point and wrote about their reasoning as well as the evidence from the framers of the Amendment, Somerby's speculation is moot and his objection has no weight at all. It does reflect right wing efforts to protect Trump, but it only works by ignoring what the decision itself said.

    When Somerby disappears the info that answers his own questions/objections, he is being dishonest. If we could find that discussion in the decision (see pages 75-79), so could Somerby. So it is a matter of motivation and Somerby is clearly only motivated to defend Trump and not to defend our Constitution or our government from insurrection by anti-democratic, autocratic, dictator-wannabees.

    It is a joke when Somerby calls for a red/blue discourse without even bothering to read the decision handed down by the court in CO.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. It is as if Bob wrote, “ you can’t use standards used to regulate muskets for controlling the use of AK47s. But Bob would never write that because his good friends and neighbors do that all the time, no matter how many children have been slaughtered.

      Delete
  8. "Should Trump be barred from the Colorado ballot? We regard Trump as deeply disordered, but our inclination would be to say no."

    This is all you need to know about Somerby. But I suppose that if our nation allows deeply disordered people to buy firearms, it would allow them to serve in important offices too, including the presidency. Why not?

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    1. The trouble is that the decision isn't made by our entire nation. It's made by certain individuals.

      Suppose that 5of the Republicans oj the Supreme Court believed that the Democratic policies were so bad that they could only be promulgated by deeply disordered people. Suppose these five unelected Republicans on the Supreme Court decided that the entire Democratic Party program gave such excessive power to the government that it amounted to an insurrection. And, based on that reasoning, suppose the Supreme Court prohibited any Republican from running for President. That would obviously be appalling.

      That thought experiment should give a taste about how I feel about the CO Supreme Court action..

      Delete
    2. DiC - Suppose five Supreme Court justices stopped the vote and handed the presidency to the Republican. Would you find that appalling?

      Delete
    3. I think Trump and his accomplices have forfeited the right to hold public office through their own actions. It isn’t any number of justices deciding an election or giving anyone anything. The justices would be applying the law in a manner that should be equal for all.When a bank robber gets caught, you don’t blame the police or the courts for putting him in jail.

      There are no laws that would permit your nightmare scenarios now, but who knows what might hapen if Trump becomes dictator for a day.

      We have 9 justices issuing public decisions as a check on abuse of power. If we do not pursue Trump’s insurrection, there is no check on Trump’s presidential abuse of power.

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    4. David, you say, “prohibit any Republican”. Is that what you mean?

      Delete
    5. DinC: "a taste about how I feel"

      How you feel is not a great way to evaluate whether the law has been enforced correctly. Anyway, MAGA has strong recommendations about the proper value to be placed on "your feelings."

      Delete
    6. I hope everyone has come to the realization that DiC is not here to engage in an intellectually honest manner.

      2. It was obvious years ago that VP Biden's Ukraine policy was influenced by money paid to Hunter.

      DiC wrote that, pulled it straight out of his fascist loving ass, and you will never convince him otherwise. It is futile to try to debunk every piece of bullshit he boldly and confidently asserts here. One can go mad even trying.

      That is why it just saves a lot of time for me to just tell DiC to go fuck himself. He is not an honest man.

      Delete
    7. DiC is outrageous fascist and not a nice man.

      I ♥ Joe. Joe is a highly ethical leader with American interests at heart.

      I smell my fingers now. My finger smells funny.

      I am Corby.

      Delete
    8. DiC - Suppose five Supreme Court justices stopped the vote and handed the presidency to the Republican. Would you find that appalling?

      Three current Supreme Court justices assisted the legal team of then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush in the Florida ballot-recount battle that came down to a single vote at the Supreme Court.


      Chief Justice John Roberts

      Roberts flew to Florida in November 2000 to assist Bush’s legal team. He helped prepare the lawyer who presented Bush’s case to the Florida state Supreme Court and offered advice throughout.

      Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      He was also in private practice in 2000 and helped the Bush legal team. He wrote on a 2018 Senate questionnaire that his work related to recounts in Volusia County, Florida.

      Judge Amy Coney Barrett

      Barrett wrote on the questionnaire she submitted to the Senate for her Supreme Court confirmation review, “One significant case on which I provided research and briefing assistance was Bush v. Gore.” She said the law firm where she was working at the time represented Bush and that she had gone down to Florida “for about a week at the outset of the litigation” when the dispute was in the Florida courts. She said she had not continued on the case after she returned to Washington.

      During her hearings this week, she told senators she could not recall specifics of her involvement.

      “I did work on Bush v. Gore,” she said on Wednesday. “I did work on behalf of the Republican side. To be totally honest, I can’t remember exactly what piece of the case it was. There were a number of challenges.”

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    9. "The trouble is that the decision isn't made by our entire nation. It's made by certain individuals."

      Are you referring to the HUGE tax breaks Trump gave to corporations and the rich, which "economically anxious" Republican voters--who aren't just a shit pile of bigots (hat tip mainstream media)--cheered along?

      Delete
    10. Trump gave, Biden didn't take.

      Delete
  9. "Our red tribe 'journalistic' elite is hopeless, disordered, deranged."

    I wonder how much Putin pays Somerby to trash Fox News and the rest of the right-wing echo machine?

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    1. Ah but Doggie, you ignore the inevitable square up, where he goes on to claim the Left Media is pretty much the same. That is: everyone is guilty so nobody is guilty.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, George, don't you see the logic: Somerby criticizes both left and right, therefore he's obviously getting money from Putin. Case closed.

      Delete
    3. Somerby presents right wing memes at a liberal blog. If he were criticizing the right he would do it at a conservative blog. His criticism of the left is more constant.

      I think today’s essay is aimed at Gutfield not Fox.

      Delete
    4. He criticizes Fox sometimes and MSNBC. He criticizes liberals, but not conservatives.

      Delete
    5. 6:35,
      Remind us again of the times Somerby wrote how we shouldn't follow the law because it makes Left-wingers sad.

      Delete
  10. "It leaves us to handle the hard part," says Somerby, and this is correct. That is what the courts do, and the Colorado decision is well argued and appealable. We can only hope that SCOTUS argues with as much good faith and legal diligence, whatever they decide. There are many difficult questions in seeking to apply the 14th Amendment to these facts. But whether Trump engaged in insurrection should not be one of them. For all the differences from the Civil War that Somerby cites, the facts today are not ambiguous, notwithstanding that today's insurrectionists will forever deny this. They already reject the validity of any constitutional basis for denying them power, whether legal or electoral. It is probably vain to hope that legal concessions can forestall the full playing out of their insurrectionism. If so, abstaining from available legal means to impede their success, in the hope of avoiding certain consequences, would probably be short-sighted, if not suicidal. The worst consequence would be enabling the insurrection to succeed without putting up the best possible fight.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Our nation allows deeply disordered people like me to comment on blogs. I am not Corby.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, Somerby could censor you (and your ilk) out of the comments if he wanted to. It is Somerby who believes in free speech here, not "our nation." Other blogs do keep you guys out using the moderation tools provided by Disquis and blogspot.

      If you become too annoying, even Somerby's patience may be exhausted.

      Delete
    2. The sooner the better. But I'm still not Corby.

      Delete
  12. I just had a Marie Callander’s Spaghetti and Meatballs Bowl for lunch. It was pretty good.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I wish they still had the Restaurants. Great chicken pot pie. Also;,Trump is a lowlife crazy scumbag and if you like him you are too:?

      Delete
    2. Trump is amazingly bad.

      Delete
  13. Jewish people should emigrate from Israel.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Jewish people have suffered a lot to be in Israel and they are not going to leave any time soon. You need to persuade those in Gaza to stop attacking them and live as peaceful neighbors.

      Delete
    2. There is no reason to stay in Israel. To heck with Israel. Give it to the Arabs.

      Delete
    3. Please please don't throw me in the briar patch.

      Delete
  14. Quaker in a BasementDecember 23, 2023 at 2:47 AM

    "Has he engaged in an 'insurrection or rebellion' against the United States?"

    The judges of Colorado courts took pains to examine that question carefully. They helpfully provided a detailed account of the reasons they answered the question in the affirmative.

    But so what? What does Josh Marshall think?

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  15. Quaker in a BasementDecember 23, 2023 at 3:03 AM

    Were the authors of the 14th Amendment referring to the recently concluded conflict when they spoke of "insurrection or rebellion"? Undoubtedly.

    Did they phrase the amendment to prohibit anyone who joined the Confederacy from holding office? Surpirse! They didn't!

    One of the fundamentals of Constitutional analysis is that the choice of words in composing the text of the document must be credited with meaning. If the amendment says "insurrection" it means any insurrection, not just the one most contemporaneous with the passage of the amendement.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Suppose there’s a robbery. Then the legislature makes robbery illegal. Are they trying to ban future robberies? Of course not. They’re only condemning the past robbery. I am Korbi.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No. They are trying to get Trump off the ballot.

      I am Corby.

      Delete