THE 77 PERCENT CONFUSION: Hey, rubes!

FRIDAY, APRIL 18, 2014

Interlude—Joan Walsh toys with the masses: With a 7-year-old relative suddenly in town, our hours are limited today and tomorrow.

For that reason, we’ll postpone our review of Maddow and Hartmann’s seminars concerning the gender wage gap. Instead, we’ll consider the new piece by Joan Walsh at Salon.

Our basic question:

Do you think Walsh is sincere in the things she says in her piece? Or do you think this tribal leader is simply conning us the rubes, as plutocrats and commissars have done down through the ages?

We find it hard to believe that Walsh is being straightforward in her piece. With red-faced anger on loan from Chris Matthews, the reinvented “cable news” star starts her piece like this:
WALSH (4/17/14): Lazy Beltway pundits have discovered a new Obama scandal: The president is telling his base the truth about how Republicans are making their lives worse, and he must be stopped.

[...]

Slate’s John Dickerson has topped them all, however, with “Obama trolls the GOP,” his Thursday column accusing the president of lying about the wage gap between men and women in order to win votes.
Walsh is angry, very angry, at Slate’s lazy Beltway pundit. According to Walsh, that pundit has accused the president of “lying about the wage gap.”

Can we talk?

In his piece at Slate, Dickerson doesn’t use the word “lying.” Walsh’s use of the famously inflammatory term is a slippery initial technique designed to get readers worked up.

Just for the record:

With regard to Obama’s recent statements about the gender wage gap, this is what Dickerson wrote at Slate. The L-word never appears:
DICKERSON (4/16/14): CBS's Major Garrett writes in National Journal about a new version of the “stray voltage” theory of communication in which the president purposefully overstates his case knowing that it will create controversy. Garrett describes it this way: “Controversy sparks attention, attention provokes conversation, and conversation embeds previously unknown or marginalized ideas in the public consciousness.”

The issue last week was the pay gap between men and women. The president issued executive orders to address the disparity, and Democrats pushed legislation in Congress. In making the case, the president and White House advisers used a figure they knew to be imprecise and controversial—a Census Bureau statistic that the median wages of working women in America are 77 percent of median wages earned by men.
According to Dickerson, Obama “purposefully overstated his case.” He “used a figure he knew to be imprecise.”

We wouldn’t put it exactly that way; “imprecise” seems like the wrong word. But it’s hard to argue that Dickerson’s statements are actually wrong.

Walsh doesn’t want Salonists to know that. So she dropped a quick L-bomb, hoping to get us worked up.

Much like her wealthier patron Matthews, the reinvented Walsh is almost fiendishly disingenuous these days. For today, let’s note what she is willing to tell you about the familiar statistic Obama used in his State of the Union Address and then again last week.

How much is Walsh willing to let the rubes know? Not a whole heck of a lot! This is her account of Obama’s use of that statistic:
WALSH: [T]he essence of Dickerson’s argument is of a piece with the lazy “grievance” meme spreading among his peers: Obama is doing something wrong by telling a component of his coalition, in this case women, that Republican policies are hurting them. In other words, telling the truth while also, yes, practicing politics.

We can certainly debate which number we should use when debating pay equity, but the notion that Obama is deliberately lying to create “stray voltage” by choosing the wrong number seems cynical or worse. Dickerson relies on a Major Garrett column that relies on an older Major Garrett column in which White House adviser David Plouffe explained his theory of “stray voltage”—how any controversy, even ones that seem to hurt Obama, can be put to good political use when “stray voltage” from said outrage sparks the ire of Obama’s base.

Supposedly, the controversy around the White House continuing to use the Census Bureau figure—that women make 77 cents to a man’s dollar—even though other studies find a smaller gap, cements the impression that Republicans oppose measures to close the gap, and may create “stray voltage” to galvanize women voters in 2014 and 2016. Oliphant likewise relies on the pay-gap flap, and the Democrats’ embrace of the doomed Paycheck Fairness Act, as an example of unfair “grievance politics.”

But Republicans do oppose virtually all measures that might close the gap. It’s not just the Paycheck Fairness Act; take the minimum wage. Republicans (and others) say that 77 percent figure exaggerates the pay gap between equally qualified men and women, because women are clustered in low-wage fields. Raising the minimum wage would be a great way to get at that particular pay-gap widener, since two thirds of minimum wage workers are women. But of course, Republicans oppose not only the Paycheck Fairness Act, but an increase in the minimum wage as well.

[...]

So let me make sure I understand. Telling your voters, accurately, that Republicans are trying to make it harder for them to vote, and are blocking action on pay equity, the minimum wage and immigration reform is unfair “grievance politics”?
In such ways, the plutocrats and the commissars have always worked to keep the rubes dumbed down.

After getting us riled with her L-bomb, Walsh says Dickerson is accusing the president of “doing something wrong” by “telling the truth” about Republican policies.

That’s a sad, absurd account of what Dickerson actually said. Obviously, Walsh understands that.

With regard to the gender wage gap, Walsh makes it sound like there are several competing numbers floating around and that “we can debate which number we should use,” presumably in good faith.

She says the White House has “continued to use the Census Bureau figure...even though other studies find a smaller gap.”

That pretty much isn’t the case. Here’s why:

The 77 cent figure is perfectly accurate if you explain what it measures. It’s meant to compare average annual income among women to average annual income among men.

That’s what the famous statistic is supposed to measure. Put to that use, the figure is perfectly accurate, or was in 2009.

That said, the Census Bureau statistic isn’t meant to measure discrimination; it isn’t meant to measure pay “for the same or equal work.” But that’s the way the White House and Obama have persistently used it. For an example, click here.

Presumably, Walsh understands all that. Like people of her type through the annals of time, she just doesn’t think it’s good for average people to understand that.

Walsh is carefully parceling out the things you’re permitted to know. In fairness, people who worm their way into ruling castes have always behaved in this manner.

There’s nothing wrong with that famous Census Bureau statistic until you misapply it. Similarly, there’s nothing wrong with the famous Cal Ripken statistic—2632 consecutive games!—until you say that’s the number of games in which he hit a home run.

It’s fairly obvious that Obama has “purposefully overstated his case” by the use of that famous statistic. A person can judge that conduct however he or she likes.

Obama has overstated his case; surely, Walsh understands that. Like ruling castes through the annals of time, she just doesn’t want you to know.

People like Walsh have always believed that they’re the best judge of which things the average folk should be allowed to know.

We think such conduct is very low. That said, you can judge the work of this climber in whatever way you choose.

We’d just prefer that you understand the matters on which Walsh wants to rile and deceive you. People like Walsh never want their lessers, the rubes, to accomplish such tasks.

Irony of the fortnight: In her autobiography, What’s the Matter with White People (real title!), Walsh portrays [name of relative withheld] as a very honest person.

59 comments:

  1. Democrats have been little better than Republicans at fixing women's employment problems. The idea that this focus on the wage gap is an attempt to tell voters how Republicans have failed them is ludicrous. There is no will in either party to address this issue.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

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  2. Omg - new nefarious numbering!! We need a leader of intellect who can uncover the motives behind the sinister way BOB numbers his posts!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We can only guess how many "epilogues" this series will produce.

      Delete
    2. I agree. It's beyond the pale and shines a light on the ridiculousness of blighted bloggers core premise about powerful media.

      I was merely listening to Tyranny And Mutation and enjoying my morning Dunkaroos until I saw his sneaky, lying numbering at which time I snorted milk out of my nose in disgust.
      Meanwhile, his stupid fans will defend it.

      Delete
    3. Is the number of wage gap posts between 17 and 117 yet?

      Aren't those the size of Maddow's clown shoes?

      Delete
    4. Speaking of numbering:

      "That’s what the famous statistic is supposed to measure. Put to that use, the figure is perfectly accurate, or was in 2009."

      So did BOB miss 2010, 2011, and 2012 because he is scripted and lazy, like Matoko Rich?

      Is he disappearing them because, like Maddow, he is misleading rubes into thinking the figure is old and probably outdated?

      Or is he leaving them out because the figures from more recent years, like the ones from years preceding it may not "represent a real societal problem."

      KZ

      Delete
    5. I'm on your side big time KZ. Your work here is paying off.

      Delete
  3. I get it Bob. You don't like Obama because he had the temerity to win the 2008 nomination over your preferred candidate. And he did so unfair and not square with such media powerhouses like Chris Matthews clearly in his corner.

    But please, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and even good buddy Al Gore said the same things Obama is saying about the "wage gap" in virtually the same words.

    Only now is the guy saying it "overstating"?

    Or are we only interested in bashing Walsh today?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In the post above, "Anonymous" dedicated zero words to Joan Walsh's allegation that Dickerson lied; zero words to Dickerson's article and zero words to Bob's argument.

      Delete
    2. In the post above, "John Maxwell" dedicated zero words to Joan Walsh's allegation that Dickerson lied; zero words to Dickerson's article and zero words to Bob's argument.

      Delete
    3. John, it doesn't matter what issue Somerby is addressing or how he is addressing it on any given day.

      It is only useful to him to beat his favorite targets with, especially Maddow and Walsh.

      I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him rush to the defense of the Nevada rancher.

      Delete
    4. Politicians can say whatever they like. Ranchers can claim whatever they want to believe. Journalists are supposed to provide a clear and unbiased accounting of what was said and (hopefully) information that can be used by the readers to understand the issues presented. When Maddow and Walsh fail at their chosen profession, they become a "target" of this blog. As soon as they stop calling themselves journalists, they can become simply political hacks and will no longer be the subject of this blog.

      Delete
  4. If this problem really exists--and I'm willing to believe that it does--why does it need to be overstated? And isn't Walsh just begging media types to play along?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is not being overstated, and yes, it does exist.

      Delete
    2. Explain. Don't just type that it's overstated.

      Delete
  5. This if off-topic - but here is the deepest truth about America that has been true from 1776 - (from Salon).

    Good old white boys are only willing to obey laws other good old white boys are comfortable with.

    As a failed Angry White Male - blogger pretty much subscribes to this position and is peeling off his "liberal" credentials little by little and before long he'll shows up on stage at a Ted Nugent concert.

    "It’s tempting to write this reaction off as a matter of idiocy married to identity politics. Bundy is a white guy in a cowboy hat wielding guns, which reads as “one of us” to many on the right, so they refuse to accept that he’s a bad guy no matter how much he threatens violence against federal officers simply for enforcing a law that applies to everyone. And no doubt that is part of what’s going on here. But really, what’s going on runs deeper than a knee-jerk desire on the part of the right to believe every white guy in a cowboy hat is a good guy. This is the logical extension of a push that’s grown in recent years from conservatives to argue that they, and only they, have special rights to simply disregard any law they don’t want to follow. And unfortunately that’s an argument that may be making headway this year in the Supreme Court."

    ReplyDelete
  6. All of HB's arguments about paycheck fairness are included in this article by Phyllis Schafley, the woman who defeated the ERA back in the day by telling people the law would require unisex bathrooms.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/facts-and-fallacies-about-paycheck-fairness-117959/

    Now she says that if women receive the same pay as men, they won't be able to find husbands who make more money than they do, which accounts for the decline in the marriage rate.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jesus F, I haven't commented in this thread until now and already I'm being attacked! Guess I struck a nerve. Yay!

      Anon at 11:17 is, of course, making an implicit ad hominem attack. Phyllis Schlafely is bad! Her arguments are the same as HB's! Therefore HB is obviously full of it! Logic!

      First off, just because someone is conservative doesn't mean they're always wrong. Tribalistic boneheads such as Anon 11:17 seem to have an awful lot of trouble with this concept. And even if she was wrong what point does a 40-year-old argument have to do with current debate--besides nothing I mean?

      I have previously offered multiple sources explaining why the wage gap claim about women getting paid less for the same work to the tune of 23% less is bunk. Anon at 11:17 is trying to hold me responsible for one I DID NOT CITE.

      Really, Anon 11:17, if this is the best you can do, are you not implicitly admitting to being a raging ass clown? Hint: The answer is yes!

      Delete
    2. Schlafley has been funded by insurance corporations in her efforts. What is your excuse?

      Delete
    3. My dear raging little ass clown,

      I need no excuse. I am merely expressing my honest opinion.

      But thank you for yet another ad hominem attack.

      So much anger. So little intelligence. How deliciously pathetic.

      Delete
    4. No discussion is possible with someone who confuses stereotypes with reality and buys into conservative propaganda. But lots of Men's rights sites would love to hear your "opinions".

      Delete
    5. If no discussion is possible then why don't you do us all a favor and shut up?

      Delete
    6. A sexist is a special kind of bigot. You can hold your views but you will be seen for what you are by others. Sexist.

      Delete
    7. A person who cannot support his or her claims by citing evidence but who instead must resort to tossing ad hominems while claiming to be the one fighting bigotry is a very special kind of asshole indeed.

      If women were getting paid on 77 cents on the dollar versus men for doing the same work THERE WOULD BE A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE. For example male sanitation workers would make $20 and hour while women working alongside them would be making $15.44. Same deal would be true with law enforcement officers, secretaries, waiters, bus drivers, etc., etc. etc. If feminist claims were correct THIS WOULD BE TRUE VIRTUALLY EVERYWHERE YOU LOOKED. That is, THERE WOULD BE A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE.

      You can call me a bigot if that's what it takes to salve your understandably desperate ego. But, if you really want impress people with your intelligence (ROTFL), you'd make some effort to substantiate your claims.

      Question: Why have you not substantiated your claims?

      Delete
    8. Also, please explain why a sexist is, according to you, "a very special kind of bigot"? You mean being a sexist is worse than being a racist, an anti-Semite or a homophobe? How exactly? I think women are just as good as men and, alas, no better. i support reproductive freedom. . I mean, you really need to explain yourself.

      Delete
    9. "A person who cannot support his or her claims by citing evidence but who instead must resort to tossing ad hominems while claiming to be the one fighting bigotry is a very special kind of asshole indeed."

      Wow. Heironymous finally understands why Somerby has become "a very special kind of asshole indeed."

      Delete
    10. Hating half the population is surely different than hating a perhaps unfamiliar minority group. The scale of discrimination practiced against women is larger than most racial or ethnic bigotry, short of genocide (but even that is practiced against female children in some cultures, and domestic violence is arguably comparable).

      I have nothing to say to someone like HB who thinks his casual bigotry is just another opinion that can be debated by reasonable people. It is hate and I have no more time for it. There are plenty of websites that will welcome his contributions, assuming he can stomach the kinds of men he will find there.

      Delete
  7. We've had two uncounted "preludes" four parts, and two interludes, and Bob ran out of things to say the first time. So he repeats them daily.

    His rubes must really been dumb not to understand the same argument the first time.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Seven years old. That's a splendiferous age.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The irony of the fortnight is that they may get entrusted to older relatives with very loose screws.

      Delete
  9. Picking up where we left off yesterday....

    OMB (Bone Simple Versus Bone Stupid)

    BS vs BS

    Part Heraclitus

    BOB picks his philosophers well:

    "How much less do women get paid for doing the same or equal work? It isn’t easy to answer that question.

    It’s a little bit like Heraclitus’ river. You’ll never see that important question answered the same way twice!"

    Consider dipping your intellectual tootsies in the river of BOB rhetoric just in yesterday's post:

    First Dip

    "But no one who actually works in this field claims that this is a measure of how much women get paid, as compared to men, for doing the same work.

    That said, partisans constantly make that claim."

    Second Dip

    That said, no one claims that the shortfall is as large as 23 cents on the dollar. No one claims that women get paid 77 percent as much “for the same or equal work.”

    Third Dip

    "You may hear President Obama imply that women get shortchanged that much. ...You may hear Rachel Maddow imply that."

    Fourth Dip

    "Repeat: No expert claims that women only get paid 77 percent as much for doing the same work."

    Fifth Dip

    "Katie McDonough correctly wrote that “the pay gap is real...women do get paid less than men for doing the same work as their male peers.”"

    Sixth Dip

    "Instead, the proselytizers often take over when this topic gets discussed. As they teach you what to think about the wage gap, they may routinely fail...They may report... they may pretend or suggest that they’re reporting the difference in pay “for the same or equal work.”

    We wonder if Heraclitus made his observation after stepping into the flow of a stream of bullshit.

    Nobody working in bullshit says he did. Some constantly claim he did. Nobody claims he did. Some imply he did. Another correctly says he did. No experts says he did. Preachers may teach you he may have.

    And so it flows.

    KZ

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And let us rejoice and be glad that Bob is finally off tulip bulbs, the Lord of the Flies, and perhaps even Salem Witch Trials -- though time will tell.

      Now he has poor Heraclitus to beat to a further death, as Bob continues to dip his tootsies into the same river over and over and over.

      Delete
  10. OMB (Don't let BOB teach a 7 or 77 year old how to count)

    "The 77 cent figure is perfectly accurate if you explain what it measures. It’s meant to compare average annual income among women to average annual income among men."

    No BOB. No matter how many times you may try and misinform your own rubes on this topic, that is not what that statistic is meant to compare.

    When you get the basic premise incorrect, the chunks in the stream may differ when they flow by, but they are still all bullshit.

    KZ


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  11. Note how Obama escapes blame. Walsh wrote, "Obama is...telling...women, that Republican policies are hurting them." Why blame the Republicans? Gender discrimination is already illegal. If employers are flagrantly violating gender discrimination laws, shouldn't that reflect badly on the President?

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    Replies
    1. "If employers are flagrantly violating gender discrimination laws, shouldn't that reflect badly on the President?"

      That question is utterly mind-boggling in its stupidity.

      Delete
    2. Anon 2:08
      You are forgetting Republican Catch 22:
      "Everything reflects badly on the President, if his name is Obama."

      Delete
  12. The Howler has not one speck of evidence that Walsh does not believe what she is saying, but he doesn't have the integrity not to call her a liar -- OK, imply it -- for his rubes here. Or the guts to say it out loud. Walsh sometimes appears on the Matthews show, after all, and is even pleasant to her host, so the end justifies the means. No evidence is necessary.

    Actually, he knows perfectly well that he has tried to turn a molehill of an officially published, historically non-controversial statistic into a mountain for the sole purpose in the beginning of using it to attack Maddow. God, blinding the rage must been seeing her on "Meet the frickin' Press." Now, Walsh has given him the opening to launch a new assault on someone else he seems to despise for reasons that have nothing to do with high principles.

    Once having crossed the Rubicon onto the dark side of the right-wing noise machine, however, and not having the basic human ability to say "my bad," he will fight to the death and pretend to himself and his followers that it is an exercise in maintaining progressive integrity. Of course, since he knows the genesis of his daily line here was, in fact, an injudicious, poorly thought-out tangent to feed an insatiable personal hatred of Maddow, that means that by now he is actually the liar who knows what he is saying is bullshit.

    Over the years, we have had here valuable, real-time critiques of Dowd, Collins, Matthews, Russert, Brian Williams, David Gregory and many others in the big-time press, including Maddow (on her Susan Rice knowledge gap, for example) and the new Matthews. The recurring series on so-called education reform has been invaluable, too. It is a shame to see this site descend into daily exercises of feckless hostility to a rotating panel of designated targets.

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    1. Urban, I will note that even his recent, seemingly endless, series on education quickly turned into personal attacks on the author (Amanda Ripley) he took issue with.

      It's never enough for him any more to air his disagreements in an adult fashion without throwing around deeply personal insults.

      And he wonders why the "American discourse" has slipped.


      Delete
    2. The evidence, dear Legend, is giving somebody the benefit of the doubt. If somebody makes a string of incorrect statements, and YET, is presumably smart enough to know better. Then out of the choice of "really dishonest" or "really stupid" figuring that they are dishonest is to give them the benefit of the doubt.

      Or was in NOT somehow demonstrated that she was "really wrong"?

      See, Somerby himself demonstrates why people like Walsh will not challenge the liberal conventional wisdom. Why they will instead make all kinds of disinegenuous arguments in defense of it.

      If she did, then swarms of true believers would be swarming all over her.

      Then again, considering that it's the internet, that may be happening anyway.

      Delete
  13. "There’s nothing wrong with that famous Census Bureau statistic until you misapply it. Similarly, there’s nothing wrong with the famous Cal Ripken statistic—2632 consecutive games!—until you say that’s the number of games in which he hit a home run."

    There is nothing wrong with this analogy unless you compare it to the wage gap statistic. Then is is a swinging K at an off speed pitch in the dirt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just another example of Somerby typing up a "brilliant" thought without bothering to think it through deeply enough to realize how stupid it is.

      Delete
  14. I could say thatBob Somerby is a cynical and manipulative liar. This is trolling. I've decided against it, but the Daily Howler has not.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Walsh and Salon are loathsome and disgusting, but also of little relevance other than providing insight into a contemptible mindset (modern progressive) that other "progressive" outlets conceal better but most TDH readers already understand. But I enjoy TDH's attention to Walsh and Salon nonetheless.

    ReplyDelete

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  17. I would just like to mention a fact - that Cal Ripken DID break Hank Aaron's record.

    The record which never gets talked about.

    ReplyDelete
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  20. "Can we talk? In his piece at Slate, Dickerson doesn’t use the word “lying.”"
    Somerby

    Can we laugh?

    "Liar" not good close enough?

    "Walsh’s use of the famously inflammatory term is a slippery initial technique designed to get readers worked up."
    Somerby

    Never mind that her "initial" technique was the third issue she raised. after BOBo disappeared the first two. What is the difference between slippery and slimey? And what else does Sr. Slimer Somerby disappear?

    When he starts his quote of Dickerson to show Walsh falsely represents his piece, he disappears the opening lines of the paragraph:
    "This is trolling. I've decided against it, but the White House has not."
    Is anyone more fundamentally hypocritical than Slimer?

    Oh, and two more things Dickerson's piece says Slimer let slip through his crack "reportage."

    "Obama’s twist is a new, higher order of deception: creating the controversy for the purposes of milking it" and "I could say that Barack Obama is a cynical and manipulative liar."

    ReplyDelete
  21. I dislike hyperbole so don't mind Walsh being called out for it. But you bend over backwards to dismiss Dickerson for the same. He just uses blander, less blunt words such as "imprecise" which you concede is, uh, imprecise, rather than "lying," to convey the same, overstated meaning.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi! Mark you are a great blogger and put out a excellent issue in our mind. state minimum wage FLSA.net is indicate the rights of workers and reporting of the particular labor law to protect the rules of employers and employees, according to the federal and local law. We are update latest version of the law labor act that declared by the state.

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  23. How To Get Your husband Back & Avoid Divorce,Love Spells That Really Work Fast


    My Name is Vicky Lorimer, I am From United Kingdom.i am hear to give testimony of how i got back my husband, we got married for more than 9 years and have gotten two kids. thing were going well with us and we are always happy. until one day my husband started to behave in a way i could not understand, i was very confused by the way he treat me and the kids. later that month he did not come home again and he called me that he want a divorce, i asked him what have i done wrong to deserve this from him, all he was saying is that he want a divorce that he hate me and do not want to see me again in his life, i was mad and also frustrated do not know what to do,i was sick for more than 2 weeks because of the divorce. i love him so much he was everything to me without him my life is incomplete. i told my sister and she told me to contact a spell caster, i never believe in all this spell casting of a thing. i just want to try if something will come out of it. i contacted Dr Brave for the return of my husband to me, they told me that my husband have been taken by another woman, that she cast a spell on him that is why he hate me and also want us to divorce. then they told me that they have to cast a spell on him that will make him return to me and the kids, they casted the spell and after a week my husband called me and he told me that i should forgive him, he started to apologize on phone and said that he still love me that he did not know what happen to him that he left me. it was the spell that Dr Brave casted on him that make him to come back to me today,me and my family are now happy again today. thank you Dr Brave for what you have done for me i would have been nothing today if not for your great spell. i want you my friends who are passing through all this kind of love problem of getting back their husband, wife , or ex boyfriend and girlfriend to contact bravespellcaster@gmail.com. and you will see that your problem will be solved without any delay.

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  24. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony...

    I am Malissa Delh by name, currently living in New jersey city, USA. I am a widow at the moment with three kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in June 2014 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, I was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender who gave me a loan of $85,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral , no credit check, no co signer with just 2% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule, please contact Mr James Lewis. He doesn't know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about him and also i want God to bless him more.You can contact him through his email: lewisloancompany@yahoo.com

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