Did Suey Park get mugged by Salon?

THURSDAY, APRIL 3, 2014

Bob Dylan’s most famous statement: “Never trust anyone under 30,” Bob Dylan once famously said.

(We may not be quoting precisely.)

We thought of Dylan’s famous statement when we read this interview with Suey Park, who may have proven a bit too young for Salon’s aging youth brigade.

First, a bit of background: Park is the 23-year-old Asian-American woman who started a land war in Asia last week concerning Stephen Colbert.

For what it’s worth, we tend to agree with Park’s basic reaction. On balance, we don’t think it’s a great idea to do the kind of comedy Colbert did in the instance in question.

We wouldn’t send Colbert to prison, at least not yet. But on balance, mountains of historical pain are involved in the mocking portrayals of racial or ethnic groups.

On balance, we don’t think male comedians should adopt falsetto voices for women. On balance, we don’t think it’s a good idea to keep tossing the sounds of ethnic stereotypes around, even in support of an alleged good cause.

To us, that tends to keep destructive imagery in the air, in everyone’s heads. And you don’t exactly know why all those people are laughing, or why they’re laughing so hard.

Last week, Park made everyone mad. She called for Colbert’s surrender to the revolutionary masses.

Needless to say, Salon went nuts. This morning, Salon’s Prachi Gupta posted a long, extremely rambling interview with Park.

Gupta is one of the top mental purity cops at the revamped Salon site. And uh-oh! Early on in the interview, Park even gave her some lip!

From that point on, the interview becomes extremely rambling. We watched a tape of Park last week where she didn’t sound like that at all.

We’re just saying! But it did make us wonder if Park was being told, in an age-old way, to get off Gupta’s lawn.

Suey, don’t mess with the purity cops! Also, as Dylan said so long ago:

Never trust anyone over 20! Especially if the cadre in question gets to edit your words.

One legacy of Mike Seeger: In Chronicles: Volume I, Bob Dylan paid an astonishing tribute to Mike Seeger, who has since passed away.

Essentially, Dylan said he knew he would have to write his own songs after seeing Seeger sing in Alan Lomax’s loft in Greenwich Village. Dylan said he knew he could never perform the traditional songs as well as Seeger did:

“The thought occurred to me that maybe I’d have to write my own folk songs, the ones Mike didn’t know.” (page 71)

For decades, Seeger was our favorite performer of any kind. It was never easy to explain why. But one of the things we liked was this—he always sang the women’s voices straight. Many men can’t or won’t do that, singers as well as comedians.

To watch Seeger sing Lady of Carlisle, click here, move to 3:30. (Warning: Archaic social arrangements!) Seeger never condescended to his female characters. He never rolled his eyes. He never went to falsetto:

Down in Carlisle there lived a lady
Being most beautiful and gay.
She was determined to live a lady,
No man on earth could her betray.


Dylan went on to write his own songs, several of which caught on.

To see Roscoe Holcomb in Lomax’s loft, click here. For Clarence Ashley (with Doc Watson), click this. This is said to be the first videotape of Watson.

Those tapes are from the New York City of the early Mad Men years. Watching Seeger in that room gave Dylan a different idea.

75 comments:

  1. Just as few women like the Three Stooges brand of humor, I don't know any woman who likes drag humor or falsetto. Colbert believes that because his character is a parody, anything that crosses a line can be attributed to those he mocks, his character, and thus he need never take responsibility for the content of his act. I agree fully with this criticism.

    I remember when he was invited to perform for the correspondent's dinner and conservatives were not sure whether he was actually conservative or liberal. That ambiguity makes it hard to parse his intentions but I do not think it should provide cover for giving offense in ways that someone genuinely expressing such views would not be permitted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many of my good friends are women and a goodly number count the Stooges themselves among their personal favorites in the humor genre. And my better half thinks Les Cages Aux Folles and Priscilla Queen of the Desert rivals the Lady Killers as tops in cinematic comedy.

      Delete
    2. Oh, well that makes everything OK then.

      Delete
  2. Colbert was wrong, Park was and is right, but evidently racism at the expense of Asians is fine for lots and lots of people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You do realize Park says whiteness will always be the enemy in the Salon interview. If that's not racism, Idk what is.

      Delete
  3. I love you Bob, but this post was nonsensical.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If Park's tweet had first appeared in Salon, don't you think this post would have been remarkably different? Like White Belly Dancers Redux?

      Delete
  4. Oh. My. Gawd!

    First off, can anybody provide a link to anything Bob Dylan ever said that even remotely resembles the words Somerby puts in his mouth? I sure can't find it. But I do see that the famous Jack Weinberger quote: "Don't trust anyone OVER 30" has been frequently misattributed to Dylan . . . and others.

    But that is a side issue.

    Why does Somerby disappear the context in which Colbert -- in character -- offered his alleged slur before he chooses sides?

    For the sake of those who don't know, Colbert was mocking the newly announced "Washington Redskins Original Americans Foundation" which seeks to sugarcoat a nickname that is clearly a racial slur by announcing that he established the "Ching-Chong Ding-Dong Foundation for Senitivity to Orientals or Whatever."

    In context, his point was clearly made. Unfortunately, a staffer posted this on the Colbert Report twitter account out of all context and without further explanation, and that is what Park saw.

    "Who would have thought that a means of communication limited to 140 characters would ever create misunderstandings." Colbert famously declared on Monday, his first opportunity to set the record straight.

    Bob should also note that as Colbert turned lemons into lemonade on Monday ("CNN even took a break from their Malaysian airliner coverage to report spotting what they thought was the wreckage of my show off the coast of Australia,: Classic!), he also included a very Malala moment.

    He noted that some of his fans, reacting angrily to #CancelColbert, had been attacking Park viciously.

    He called for those attacks to stop.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somerby didn't disappear that context. He said Colbert, in the name of serving a higher purpose, repeated slurs that are best not kept alive in people's minds. I saw Colbert's show on Monday and he spent most of his time defending his own choices, not Park, in my opinion. You have chosen to repeat his offensive remarks and now you are doing the same thing Colbert was criticized for doing and that Somerby objected to. Not showing much sensitivity there yourself -- is that intentional? Or do you think it is OK to repeat a slur as long as you can attack Somerby in the process?

      Classy trolling. Everyone said "don't trust anyone over 30" back in the 60s so you'll have a hard time proving Dylan never said it.

      Delete
    2. Good lordy, how can we discuss this in vacuum without knowing what we are talking about?

      Incidentally, Colbert's "slur" was supposed to be offensive to demonstrate how offensive "Washington Redskins Original Americans Foundation" is.

      Are Bob and all his fans this irony challenged? If so, no wonder he failed as a comedian.

      Or is this all just another excuse for him to whine some more about Salon?

      Delete
    3. Interesting. Somerby didn't disappear the context, but 6:31 needs the smelling salts and fainting couch because of the commenters supplied it.

      Delete
    4. @"are Bob and all his fans this irony challenged?"

      Can't say about ALL his fans, but the man? A striplng of at least six decades slamming Prachi Gupta for shouting GOML (such a tired internetticism ought by now to have its own acronym)? Who on balance has decided that Colbert's humor is a bad idea bc throwing around stereotypes is so negative and we all know how women dislike the Stooges?

      I haven't been to the Howler for years, but it's good to see Bob's added Salon to his obligatory Rachel hate. Karachi Gupta deserves calling out for making a young Asian woman look so cu--er, sound so rambling and disjoi--

      --BIRD!

      #cancelmontypythontheywereneverfunnyonbalance

      X

      Delete
    5. Prachi Gupta. Autocorrect needs to go to diversity training.

      Delete
  5. For a more thoughtful analysis of this issue, try this:

    http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/01/snyder-wins-how-cancelcolbert-drowned-out-native-voice-154270

    ReplyDelete
  6. For those who did not understand, Somerby is implying that Suey Park's interview was heavily edited by Salon's Prachi Gupta. The rest of the references are suggesting there may be an age-related divide or sensitivity about how the topic is received, as expressed by Dylan back in the day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, I tried to find a bio of Gupta and ran across this one penned, in non-flattering terms, by Somerby himself last June:

      "Prachi Gupta graduated from college (Pitt) in 2009. For two years, she worked for Deloitte Consulting. After a year as a freelance writer, she hired on at Salon last August as an “entertainment news blogger.”

      So . . . she graduated from college in 2009. That makes her somewhere around 27 years old, which seems to be confirmed by the photos of her at Salon.

      Yeah, that's some "age-related divide" between her and the 23-year-old Park.

      Delete
  7. Who is "Mike Seeger"?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Pete Seeger's brother, also a well-known singer and musicologist, brother to Peggy Seeger who married Ewan McColl and was also a folksinger.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Has anyone located the Bob Dylan quote yet? Or is Somerby making it up?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Bob doesn't like Colbert because Colbert is funnier than Bob.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I thought it was because Colbert wrote a bestseller lauding Poles.

      Delete
  11. "On balance, we don’t think it’s a great idea to do the kind of comedy Colbert did in the instance in question."

    So now TDH is playing at being the comedy police as well as musing on mainstream "press corps?" Is TDH's post on Salon's coverage of Comedy Central really musing on the mainstream press or is it just Bob's excuse to criticize popular liberals?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're very stupid.

      Delete
    2. Who died and made you Chris Christie?

      Delete
  12. Are you suggesting that Salon must have heavily edited Park's interview to make her sound worse?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 6:07 certainly said that Bob "implied" that, whatever that means.

      I do want to know what Bob meant by saying that Park got "mugged" by Salon.

      It seems to me to be a pretty straightforward Q&A. But of course, it didn't "sound" like the one and only time Somerby actually heard Park.

      Delete
  13. It wasn't Dylan who said "Never trust anyone over 30." At least not first. It was Jack Weinberg, the guy held for hours by campus police during the Berkeley student uprising of 1964.
    And he wasn't being entirely serious

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to Bob, the quote was "Never trust anyone under 30" as best he could remember.

      I'm not sure he got either the quote or the source right.

      Delete
    2. People Bob's age at best remember how much better things were when they were forever young.

      Delete
    3. "forever young" is from a different generation

      Delete
  14. Well, you sure sent me off on a tangent. BTY, Bob . . . You seem to have started to attract a pretty vicious breed in here. Maybe you need to think about putting some street lights up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Will you come back more often from your tangents if he does?

      Delete
  15. We love it when Bob covers these Asian tigers.

    ReplyDelete
  16. After watching the HuffPost interview with Park and then reading the Salon interview, that is exactly how she sounds. She is more concise with HuffPost, if only because they weren't letting her go off on random tangents or talk over the interviewer. I'll admit that Colbert's original joke was in poor taste, even considering the context. Park, however, is almost completely full of crap. She blatantly lies in the interview with HuffPost about being an activist for Native Americans, link below:

    http://i.imgur.com/oyg7SzX.png

    She's full of it and all of this was a way for her to gain publicity.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course, Colbert's joke was in "poor taste"! That's the point!

      Delete
    2. Interesting. As an undergraduate student, Park was on the frontlines to remove a mascot offensive to Native Americans that had been removed years before she set foot on the campus.

      A new twist on the classic, "Some of my best friends are . . ." defense.

      Delete
  17. "Let Asia assemble your phones"

    I think Bob Zimmerman said that.

    I'll dream Christie didn't call her stupid if you dream he didn't call her a liar.

    Bob Somerby said that.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Did anyone win the land war Park started in Asia? Or did it simply end in a declared truce that we will have to police another half century?

    ReplyDelete
  19. "From that point on, the interview becomes extremely rambling. We watched a tape of Park last week where she didn’t sound like that at all."

    It would have been nice for Somerby to provide a link, or at the very least name the source of this "tape" so that his readers could also view it and see how much it bolsters his case against Salon.

    Whatever that case may be. He says Gupta is guilty of mugging. But he doesn't say how. He only says Park didn't sound like that at all in this mysterious "tape."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did Christie call Kelly a "liar?" Did Gore say he "invented" the internet? Did Zernike say Mastro described Kelly "frequently" crying?

      Does BOB ask questions in headlines to seem innocent of what he implies? Is someone a troll on a troll blog?

      These are questions which, if technically false cannot be journalistically disproven if we just don't know. But many come here for a different way of thinking they could not have thought of on their own. Or so they suggest when they are not intimidated by those who threaten our democracy.

      KZ

      (Looking forward to fresh postings on week old Maddow
      clowning)

      Delete
    2. Do you recall the recent and exhaustive search through Newsweek and Rolling Stone profiles in which Bob concluded that Rachel Maddow is a liar because she didn't sound at all in one like she did in the other?

      I think it had to do with the critical issue of Maddow's proficiency on the gun range. Or it could have been about black and white TVs were no longer around in 1980, and you certainly can't buy one now on the Internet, no matter how much you have to drink.

      Delete
    3. Or could it be that she tells ridiculous stories about herself, a trait she perhaps picked up from her family.

      Delete
    4. Right. The evidence of Maddow and her family's ridiculousness is that she didn't sound at all the same from one story to the next, written by different authors years apart.

      And the evidence that Park was mugged and edited is that she didn't sound at all the same from some alleged tape Somerby saw to the Q&A in Salon.

      I just love Bob Logic.

      Delete
  20. On balance, we don't think satirists should say racist things when they mock racists. On balance, we don't thin satirists should talk about eatin Irish children either. On balance, we have no clue about satire.

    On balance, Bob seems to be getting worse every time i tune in (which is less and less frequently).

    Although, on balance perhaps he's doing a satire of himself?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When will it dawn on Bob that a 23-year-old female got more attention in one weekend with one tweet about Colbert than he's gotten in years of blogging about Maureen Dowd and Rachel Maddow?

      Delete
  21. Park is a lunatic. White Ally Industrial Complex is funny, though. Colbert was and is brilliant. Was Sid Caesar racist for mimicking the sounds of a foreign tongue, by the way?

    ReplyDelete
  22. I watch Colbert.
    His bit about "Ching chong ding dong" reminded me of the old Jerry Lewis bit, minus the buck teeth and comic eyeglasses.

    Of course, Colbert was nowhere as offensive as the Lewis "Jap", and times and perceptions DO change.
    Ethnic jokes were a weekly feature of the old Steve Allen show, but are gone from TV today.

    The Colbert bit was a satire of Washington Redskins owner Daniel Snyder's "inability" to change the team's name, so instead he started a charity for Native Americans.

    As far as the Washington Redskins, I am a DC native, and grew up without hearing a negative connotation attached to the word redskin (except in '50's "oaters".)

    I have lived in Arizona for the past 38 years, and I have never heard the term "dirty redskin", or Native Americans negatively referred to as "redskins."

    Of course, on the range, seldom is heard a discouraging word.

    The point is, what at one time was a racial slur is now simply archaic, and hence has lost whatever power that it once possessed as a racial slur.

    But, hey, it's fun to get riled up, and our favorite talking heads get paid the big bucks to push our hot buttons.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You might not consider the term "redskin" to be a slur, but can you understand how a Native American might? As well as the usurpating and even mocking of their sacred rights and symbols reduced to sports "cheers"?


      Delete
    2. The question is not, "can we understand if Native Americans MIGHT consider 'redskin' a slur?"

      Of course we can ENVISION such a circumstance.

      Just because you or I can can IMAGINE Native Americans being offended by a word does not make it so.

      The proper question is "DO Native Americans consider "redskin" to be a racist slur?"

      The evidence is that most Native Americans DO NOT consider "redskin" to be racist.

      Evidence is they DO resent the Atlanta Brave's "tomahawk chop" and they DO resent the Cleveland Indian's grinning "Chief Wahoo" cheering on his tribe of athletes.

      But most Native Americans are able to separate these white man's actions into distinct categories, something our presumptive liberals seem unable to accomplish.

      Delete
    3. You don't have to "imagine" or "envision" anything. There has been quite a movement for quite some time to remove ALL offensive Native American nicknames and chants and dances and warpaint, and sacred signs and symbols from U.S. sporting events, and it has been quite successful.

      "The evidence is that most Native Americans DO NOT consider "redskin" to be racist."

      Is this a joke? "Redskins" has for years been cited as the MOST offensive nickname.

      Why not be truthfuL? YOU don't find it offensive, so you will disappear all evidence that anyone does, and on top of that, presume to speak for "most Native Americans."

      It is now time for the version of "some my best friends are . . ." defense. Please tell us all about your Native American ancestry, and how since you aren't offended by Redskin, nobody should be.


      Delete
    4. AnonymousApril 5, 2014 at 10:27 AM
      "You don't have to "imagine" or "envision" anything. There has been quite a movement for quite some time to remove ALL offensive Native American nicknames and chants and dances and warpaint, and sacred signs and symbols from U.S. sporting events, and it has been quite successful."



      So? Some ACTIVISTS have had success by beating the drum loudly for decades. That doesn’t PROVE a groundswell of opinion or resentment.
      By that logic, most Americans would be Tea Partiers.

      "The evidence is that most Native Americans DO NOT consider "redskin" to be racist."


      Is this a joke? "Redskins" has for years been cited as the MOST offensive nickname.
"

      Really? Who calls it the MOST offensive slur? You?

      More offensive than what OTHER terms used to refer to Native Americans?
      Alcoholic? Blackout? (drunkenness), Big Red? (obesity), Blanket Ass?, Bow Bender?, cherryn*gg*r?, sandn*gg*r?, Chief?, Cochise?, Tonto?, Hatchet-packer?, Tomahawk chucker? (Remember spear chucker?), Tee-Pee creeper?, Radish?, Apple? (Think Oreo Cookie!), Buffalo Jockey? Squaw? Believe me, there are WORSE than those out there.
      (How do you make a hippo as fat as a Pima? Force feed it!)

      "Why not be truthfuL?
      YOU don't find it offensive, so you will disappear all evidence that anyone does, and on top of that, presume to speak for "most Native Americans."

      I see. But of course, Anon, YOU would NEVER presume to speak for "most Native Americans."

      "It is now time for the version of "some my best friends are . . ." defense."

      That’s a cheap shot and pure sophistry, Anon.
      I may not have socialized with Native Americans, but I had them as neighbors, co-workers, customers, caregivers, shop owners, bosses, employees, rodeo employees, instructors, students, etc. for decades.

      "Please tell us all about your Native American ancestry, and how since you aren't offended by Redskin, nobody should be.
"

      “The Indian activist Suzan Shown Harjo, who has filed a lawsuit seeking to strip the “Redskins” trademark from the football team, said the (2004 Annenberg) poll neglected to ask some crucial questions.
      “Are you a tribal person? What is your nation? What is your tribe? Would you say you are culturally or socially or politically native?” Harjo asked. Those without such connections CANNOT REPRESENT native opinions, she said.”

      So there you have it. A Native American says ONLY Native Americans can represent native opinions. That’s also YOUR argument, Anon, and it's a two-way street.

      Are you Native American, Anon? If so, what is your census number?

      BTW. Some Americans of Irish descent demand that Notre Dame University change the name of it’s athletic teams because the term “Fighting Irish” perpetuates the stereotype that all Irish are drunken brawlers.

      Is that a valid case of “ethnic slurs”?

      Delete
    5. Notre Dame had one or two Irish fellows involved in the naming of its team, which I suspect was not the case with Native Americans and the Washington team.

      And you may not have socialized with Native Americans, but you were surrounded by them for decades, so naturally that gives your estimation of their feelings some weight! Let's just post every slur on them you can Google, to show how much you care!

      Delete
    6. Yes, gravy, "redskins" isn't so bad because you can think of worse.

      Unfortunately, you can't think of any professional sports teams bearing those names.

      Delete
  23. suey park is absolutely insane she should be ashamed that she grabbed onto someone who is actually famous and talented just for self promotion the solace I gather from this is that park and her supporters are now the laughing stalk of the globe

    ReplyDelete
  24. Dylan ' s most famous quote? 'Mike' Seeger? This us about as accurate ad your article.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hi
    Nice one! I like the outfit of the characters. Wish i could do the same thing too but im not that techie.i like the outfit of “from farmer to warden”.. really interesting

    ReplyDelete
  26. Finally, I got what I was looking for. Don’t have enough words to thank you that you choose this particular topic to write about. Feeling really satisfied after reading

    ReplyDelete
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