LOATHING THE OTHERS WELL: Now they've even got Kevin Drum!

FRIDAY, JULY 1, 2016

Part 4—Learning to loathe by the millions:
If we were running Essex University, we might be concerned about our young philosophy lecturer, if only for reasons of possible liability.

We'd guess that he's just an undergrown lad who has read too many books. That said, we'd be concerned by the eliminationist fervor which suffused his heartfelt piece about "my own personal hell," a personal hell caused by the existence of all other Britons.

At best, Tom Whyman is just overwrought; at worst, he could be disturbed. But that's the way a university administrator might react to his deeply peculiar essay in last Sunday's New York Times. On a journalistic basis, we'll stick with our initial assessment:

Only the New York Times would publish such ridiculous work--work designed, among other things, to help us learn to loathe our 80-something neighbors. No one but the New York Times would see the merit in ridiculous work like Whyman's.

That said, the New York Times adores the general sentiment which lay behind Whyman's piece. This morning, the paper is at it again, publishing this op-ed column in which an apparently 33-34-year-old assistant professor of creative writing describes the hate he observed at a recent Trump event.

To our ear, some of the events he describes sound perhaps a bit "creative." Having said that, we'll also quickly note that everything is possible.

Below, we'll link you to a pair of reports in which left-leaning writers described a very different tone at two other Trump events. Reports of this type don't find their way to the New York Times.

Without any doubt, a certain number of lost souls are supporting Candidate Trump. The trick is to make its seem like all Trump supporters are evil—all, or maybe just most!

Increasingly, we liberals seem to love the hate that's involved in this sick undertaking. How widely does this impulse toward pseudo-lib loathing extend?

Let's just state the problem this way—now they've even got Kevin Drum! We refer to the puzzling blog post which appeared on June 2. We've puzzled about it all month.

Drum's post was designed to help us learn to loathe the white working-class—rather, to loathe whites who lack college degrees.

Tens of millions of people fit that description. Reproducing an underwhelming graphic, Drum expressed his view of this large group in this indelicate way:
DRUM (6/2/16): Donald Trump's core support is, famously, concentrated among whites with high school degrees or less. Via Ronald Brownstein, here's how these folks feel about cultural change:

[Graphic appears]

No surprise here. They're a little bit sexist, a little bit homophobic, a little bit racist, and a little bit xenophobic. In other words, perfect for Trump.
For what it's worth, we keep reading that Trump's support isn't disproportionately based in the working class. Whatever the truth of that may be, that isn't the current point.

In the passage shown above, Drum dismissed the white working class with a series of our tribe's favorite bombs. Basically, he was helping us learn to think of millions of people as evil.

Upon what data did he base this ugly expression of loathing? Sad! Drum was working from a graphic presented by the Atlantic's Ron Brownstein. It showed responses to some fairly fuzzy questions about six social issues.

In Brownstein's graphic, responses from less educated whites were compared to responses from more educated white. (More specifically, we're discussing whites with a high school degree or less versus whites with a college degree.)

On all six questions, responses by the two groups were more much alike than different. Until you read Drum's post.

Let's be fair! In each case, less-educated whites gave the answer Drum prefers less often than their better-educated peers. But in no case did a majority of lower-educated whites give the "wrong" answer to the question. And in every case, a substantial number of better-educated whites gave the wrong answer too!

(Because someone died and made Drum God, he was able to define the official "wrong" answers, the answers which marked respondents as racist/sexist/xenophobic etcetera and so on.)

To what extent did responses from the two groups overlap? In the first question, respondents were asked if they think "society has become too soft and feminine," whatever that was supposed to mean.

Ignore the fuzziness of the question; most people offered an answer! Forty-seven percent of less educated whites gave the wrong answer to that question—but so did 31 percent of our own more laudable cohort!

To Drum, this seems to mean that less educated whites are sexist, more educated whites are not.

(You'll hide behind the words "a little bit." Needless to say, you'll be hiding.)

For another example, consider the sixth and final question, in which respondents were asked if they "favor banning Muslims entering the United States." On that question, 32 percent of Them gave the wrong answer—but so did 19 percent of Us!

On this question, the overlap between responses by the two groups was very strong. No matter! To Drum, those responses got Them tagged as "xenophobic," while nothing was said about Us. This is a perfect school for loathing, a textbook school of hate.

We've described this type of "thinking" before. In this type of thinking, we take a difference in degree and present it as a difference in kind. If 32 percent of The Others give the wrong answer to some question, that ends up meaning that all The Others did.

Did a whole bunch of Us give the wrong answer too? That's deftly disappeared.

This is textbook group loathing, in which a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind. In this particular case, please note what else got disappeared:

In Brownstein's original piece, he offered some words of caution. In the bulk of his text, he had compared responses by two groups—less educated whites and their more educated white peers.

There was more similarity than difference in the responses to all six questions. But uh-oh! Brownstein was straight enough to include this bit of nuance:

"[M]any African Americans and Hispanics also hold culturally traditional views on questions like these."

Interesting! It isn't just (a minority of) less-educated whites who give the wrong responses! According to Brownstein, many blacks and Hispanics hold the wrong views too!

Connecting this to Drum's mandate from God, this means that blacks and Hispanics are "a little bit sexist, a little bit homophobic, a little bit racist, and a little bit xenophobic" too! If you like to loathe, especially in groups!

Many blacks and Hispanics hold the wrong views too! But so what? Quite typically, Drum completely skipped this fact, and Brownstein offered no data about the way blacks and Hispanics responded to the six questions at issue. We got to drop bombs on the white working-class while giving our teammates a pass!

(Over the past dozen years, this sort of thing has been quite typical when we "liberals" bring The Others to heel in this way.)

The "liberal" world has run on this loathing for at least fifty years. On a political basis, it's massively self-defeating. Judged on the merits, it's a triumph of hate over smarts.

In part because of our tribal love for this kind of loathing, Trump may yet reach the White House. If he does, the Times will commission some fiery assistant professors to tell Us all about Them.

Currently semi-planned for tomorrow: A very-special Philosopher's Fourth!

Yet to come on some other bright day: Should we hate the working class of loathsome Sunderland, England?

They voted strongly in favor of Leave. Should we loathe Them too?

Our advice: Be sure to read the part of this Times report where we learn that they can't afford to swim in that EU-financed pool or to attend that college.

Are you sure we should loathe them too? If they sent their kids to Whyman's school, he'd call them his personal hell!

53 comments:

  1. I'm so confused.

    When Drum notices that some statistical number of poll respondents makes broad generalizations about the Other, he's being tribal.

    When Somerby notices that Drum notices, he is accurately assessing the minds of millions of "pseudo-libs."

    Is the burden of being so much more intelligent than the rest of us difficult for you?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I'm so confused."

      Yep.

      Delete
    2. Joe, perhaps reading is too much of a task for you. Do you have any spring cleaning todo instead? Perhaps you could play with some cherry bombs or some M80s in the spirit of the holiday?

      Delete
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      Delete
    4. Anon 3:22. Sorry for the delayed response. I was practicing my withering sarcasm in hopes that one day I shall be worthy to swap Algonquin-calibre bon mots with clever fellows like you.

      Delete
    5. Hey Joe (that could be a song),
      The reason you're confused is that you are taking the results of the poll as significant. Sorry to say, but the criticism of your reading prowess is on the money. Whether these poll numbers actually show a significant difference was a major point of the post.

      Delete
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  2. Somerby is critiquing an article by ONE "pseudo-lib", and is being very specific about his reasons for doing so. When he speaks of pseudo-libs generally, it is based not on this single article but, as he says, on similar behavior that has been going on for the past 50 years, examples of which he provides on this blog on nearly a daily basis.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shorter version: Somerby is swinging a the lowest hanging pinata and calling it liberal snobbery while conflating "pseudo-libs" to mean ALL Liberals "on a daily basis. Another libsplaining what Somerby really means.

      That whooshing sound you heard was Joe's point sailing over your head.

      Delete
    2. Look over there, Joe, said Kevin's momJuly 2, 2016 at 2:20 PM

      "Joe's point?"

      Is a big thing, certainly, if you're mostly concerned with trying to forget what you've seen about the way the widely-read, well-compensated Kevin Drum's happy to manipulate you.

      Delete
    3. "well-compensated" seems to be the problem Bob and some of his non-imaginary fans have with "others" like Drum. The money they get must be for purposes of manipulating.

      Sadly "any" is synonymous with "well" when it comes to Bob's concept of a writer's compensation.

      Delete
    4. 1:28,

      Do you even recognize when you are exhibiting "slippery dishonesty?"

      You not only changed "generally" to "ALL," which was obvious, and (I think) your point, but one has to admire your craft when you shifted "pseudo-libs" to "Liberals." (I especially like the capital-L.)

      Good work. The Times may hire you soon, but the real question is, are you young enough?

      Delete
  3. It's awful for Republicans to refer to Hillary Clinton with misogynistic slurs. But, it's admirable for Democrats to seriously assert that Trump is another Adolph Hitler.

    It’s been said that if liberals didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have any standards at all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More wingnut PC from the resident tribal wingnut.

      Delete
  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
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  5. Bob has, alas, shown time and time again that when real racism crops up, he isn't really bothered by it. So why should he care
    if Drum thinks Trump supporters are racist?

    ReplyDelete
  6. I don't know what privileged little world you grew up in, Bob, but imbecilic bullies like the Trump supporters described in Tom Whyman's account are like Morrissey's "Ringleaders of the Tormenters." For generations they have made (American) public school life a special kind of hell for anyone who didn't fit into the little world they ruled. You're welcome to feel sorry for these aging clowns and think liberals should bend over backwards to treat them fairly, but don't expect many of us to rally to the cause. And they'd probably beat you up too, just for acting too "smart." Or did you escape by being the class clown yourself?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wrongly answering a vague question is all it takes to make one a racist. You are a racist, if you think "Believe the government has paid too much attention to minorities", according to Drum and (implicitly) according to Ronald Brownstein.

    OTOH, supporting policies that harm blacks doesn't interest these pundits. Immigration holds wages down for low-paid blacks. Opposing school vouchers keeps many black children in failing schools. And, high minimum wages, even for teen-agers, keep many blacks out of the workforce.

    With friends like Drum and Brownstein, poor American blacks don't need any enemies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More wingnut PC from the tribalist citing Prof. Otto Yerass. Your concern about "low-paid" blacks is noted.

      Delete
    2. A study of the influx of the Marielitos in Miami on wages showed no long-term impact. After a brief and temporary decrease, wages went up across the board after the boat-lift.

      There are empirical studies of these topics and they generally don't support what conservatives claim. It seems like "common sense" that immigration should effect jobs, but reality is different and doesn't support the common wisdom of people like David, and of Trump supporters who oppose immigration. In CA in particular, immigration has had a strong and positive impact on business and workers alike, whether immigrants or not.

      Delete
    3. Are you sure, 6:56? Here's an article from the Sacramento Bee:

      The Numbers Crunch: Unemployment is down, but not for blacks and Hispanics

      Even with economic recovery, jobless rates are still much higher for African Americans and Latinos.

      In California, unemployment is actually up for blacks and Hispanics from 2007....

      In many states, the jobless rate for African Americans is still at or near double digits, and in 20 states, including California, the rate is at least double that for whites, according to the Economic Policy Institute...

      California’s overall jobless rate was 5.8 percent in the fourth quarter, but that included 10.9 percent for blacks, 7.2 percent among Hispanics, 4.4 percent for whites and 4.1 percent for Asians, according to the study.


      Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/foon-rhee/article61326407.html#storylink=cpy

      Delete
    4. What does this have to do with immigration?

      Delete
  8. The minimum wage hurts the working poor, tax breaks for billionaires helps them. Only in the self-serving weird, wacky world of conservatism.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure 12:37, workers who were getting less than minimum wage, and who don't lose their jobs, will benefit from an increase in minimum wage. But, what about all the kids who can't get hired at all?

      Sen. Bernie Sanders says the real unemployment rate for black youths is 51%. If the minimum wage is raised, even fewer of these kids will be hired. Tha's why a high minimum wage hurts black youth.

      Delete
    2. More concern trolling and Breitbart PC from the resident bigot. Bernie Sanders? Puleeze!

      Delete
    3. David, your theory to the side, the long-term trend in real dollar minimum wage (down) is correlated with trends in median incomes and after-transfers poverty & it's negatively correlated with trends in top-1% incomes and corporate profits.

      In short, that pseudo-intellectual libertarian capitalist let-them-eat-theory bullshit won't wash.

      Delete
    4. Shouldn't kids be in school instead of working? Studies show that kids who work while high school age do worse in school and have worse outcomes as a result of their concurrent employment. It is better if kids study and do well in school and leave work for later, especially when they are working to buy kid-type luxury items instead of out of economic necessity. Benefits of working teens are far outweighed by negative effects on school performance, but an unexpected outcome is that kids who work in entry level jobs acquire poor work habits and bad attitudes about employment. This is the opposite of what people think happens when kids work. So fewer kids should be hired, especially when those kids may be tempted to drop out -- a choice that will depress their income for the rest of their lives.

      Delete
  9. "No one but the New York Times would see the merit in ridiculous work like Whyman's."

    Google the title of Whyman's piece and see who thinks it merits the same criticism as Bob. He doesn't even make the first page, of course.

    We see Stormy Fronts blowing in Bob. Make sure those analysts are wearing their Pajamas.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Why does Somerby have a cadre of trolls who voice the same old criticisms every time he posts anything? What motivates them and why are they here? How trivial, washed up, or wrong-headed can he be if someone is willing to dedicate such effort to opposing him?

    The louder the troll voices, the more I believe he is on to something worth thinking about.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And it even seemed new in 1998-99 when the internets were young.

      Delete
    2. And the War to End All Gore was just beginning?

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
  12. Bob has a point. The anti-Trump posts on Facebook almost always point out the scripted line that his supporters are made up of less educated whites, while we progressive Bernie supporters have reached a much higher level of education. Liberals have dog whistles, too.
    Of course, many Bern lovers also abandon PC and flog the stupid ones as racist, sexist, homophobic hate-mongers falling for the same speechifying that brought Mussolini and Hitler to power.
    Even middle class Brits are thrown into the mix as having the same mind set as Trumpies. Proof: They don't want open borders with the EU anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  13. At the risk of sounding Marxian, isn't concern over white male dominance being under siege just another flavor of economic angst?

    What's the demographic of TCM? It's one of my favorite channels when I tire of crackers and rednecks hunting Bigfoot or building cabins in Alaska or wrestling gators in the bayou. Why do I love TCM? My favorite movies are of the pre-1950 film-noir variety. Why are they still so comforting after dozens of viewings? Could it be that white men were so definitely in charge back then and relations with blacks and browns remained nicely cordial as long as they kept shining the shoes and pouring the drinks. Ah, the good old days. Keep the femme fatales under control with a slap in the mouth chased with a big wet kiss, and white men ruled in America -- until it all began to fall apart in the damn sixties.

    For further reading, see Nancy Isenberg's "White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America." I haven't learned so much about yahoos and shit kickers since my last visit to ancestry.com.

    Gatsby believed in the green light, but then it began to flicker....

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  18. HOW TO RESTORE YOUR BROKEN MARRIAGE
    Life is all about good and bad experience...i was hurting REAL bad when my husband left me but now i can't really believe that i am with my Ex-Husband again and With this little short time and just want to use it in thanking the great man that brought joy back to my life within 48 hours by bringing back my lover. Yes it was true that i had some difficulties with my lover but today i am back here to tell the world that Dr.goodluck brought my lover back to me. I have always heard of love spell but i never had an idea of how effective it can be. Well my time is up just contact Dr.goodluck at his email goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com and you can also whatapp him or call with his mobile +2349059610309. To enable you have a taste of his great work.

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  19. Hi everyone, I'm so excited my husband is back after he have left me for another woman, My husband and I have been married for about 7 yrs now. We were happily married with two kids, a boy and a girl. 3 months ago, I started to notice some strange behavior from him and a few weeks later I found out that my husband is seeing someone. He started coming home late from work, he hardly care about me or the kids anymore, Sometimes he goes out and doesn't even come back home for about 2-3 days. I did all I could to rectify this problem but all to no avail. I became very worried and needed help. As I was browsing through the internet one day, I came across a website that suggested that Dr Unity can help solve marital problems, restore broken relationships and so on. So, I felt I should give him a try. I contacted him and and told him my problems and he told me what to do and i did it and he did a spell for me. 24 hours later, my husband came to me and apologized for the wrongs he did and promise never to do it again. Ever since then, everything has returned back to normal. I and my family are living together happily again.. All thanks to Dr Unity.If you have any problem contact him and i guarantee you that he will help you. He will not disappoint you. Email him at: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com or call him on: +2348072370762..I am Donna Murray by name and I reside here in United States..Contact Dr.Unity for help via email: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com .

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  20. My Husband divorce me for no reason, Thanks to Dr happy for bringing back my husband,and brought me great joy to my family once again, My name is crystal . i live in USA New Jersey, I`m happily married to a lovely and caring husband,with three kids A very big problem occurred in my family 2 weeks ago,between me and my husband so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he did not love me anymore So he packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through several pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(happylovespell2@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who did not call me for the past seven {2}weeks,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit Dr happy ,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr happy for bringing back my husband,and brought great joy to my family once again. { happylovespell2@gmail.com }, Thanks you Dr happy, i will always be testifying about your good work. also call him on +2348133873774.your spell is really a 100% Guarantee sure and safe

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  21. My Husband divorce me for no reason, Thanks to Dr happy for bringing back my husband,and brought me great joy to my family once again, My name is crystal . i live in USA New Jersey, I`m happily married to a lovely and caring husband,with three kids A very big problem occurred in my family 2 weeks ago,between me and my husband so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he did not love me anymore So he packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through several pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(happylovespell2@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who did not call me for the past seven {2}weeks,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit Dr happy ,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr happy for bringing back my husband,and brought great joy to my family once again. { happylovespell2@gmail.com }, Thanks you Dr happy, i will always be testifying about your good work. also call him on +2348133873774.your spell is really a 100% Guarantee sure and safe

    ReplyDelete
  22. HOW TO RESTORE YOUR BROKEN MARRIAGE
    I will start by saying to all that have experience heart break and also can't do without their lover should please stop here and read up my story, So as you will know how to go solving or getting your ex back...Am writing this article to appreciate the good work of Dr GOODLUCK that helped me recently to bring back my fiance. My fiance broke up with me last three month because he thought i was cheating on him, so for the past three month now i have trying to plead with him but he still say the same thing that he does not want us to come back again that he can not trust me so i came in contact with Dr GOODLUCK, who told me that my lover is going to come back to me if i work with him so i did what he ask me to do,after that he will call me that within 17 hours that my lover is going to come back to me,can you believe that my lover is back to me ,he now love me more than before i am so happy, spell is good when you meet Dr GOODLUCK if you need his help contact him at his email goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com and you can also whatapp him or call with his mobile +2349059610309 and i promise that he is going to help you with any problem OKay...

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  23. Best and genuine spell caster online to save your marriage and relationship
    save your marriage if it is heading for divorce now Hello everyone! Life without my lover was a real disaster for me,What on Earth will i do to thank Dr.Ewan for his help. Are you having a hard time searching for a way to get your ex partner back, look no further, this was how i got mine back you can get yours today. My husband and I have been through every top reason for divorce; financial struggles, bankruptcy, stressful jobs, becoming parents when we weren’t ready (neither one of us would give our kids back just the amount of stress is overwhelming) we fought ALL the time over anything and everything. I threatened divorce all the time. One day after a fight I said I was done and filling. He told me he wasn’t in love with me anymore. After a day or two of cooling off I realized that divorce is not what I wanted. No, our marriage was not healthy but we had so much going against us an neither one of us were trying. I begged for him to forgive me and that I didn’t mean it. He told me he loved me but wasn’t in love with me anymore. Those words hurt and I believed him.One day i was online for tutorials, as i was browsing i saw a review about a spell caster who could solve my problem, i have heard about spell casting, and magic, i said i should give it a try i contacted the spell caster his name is Dr Ewan of {covenantsolutiontemple@gmail.com}, i contacted him and he told me not to worry that all he had to do for me is a love spell, he did it and told me that i should give my husband 48 hours and that he would realize him self, i waited anxiously and one the second day of casting the spell, he came to me and told me he was sorry for the wrong he did to me, he has agreed to send me to school and we are happy. Thank you Dr Ewan you are the best. If you have any marital problem, winning of lottery and many other problems you can contact him on his email,{COVENANTSOLUTIONTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM} or call his mobile number +2347052958531, he is a good and kind man. Thanks. ELIZABETH STRONG you can also call or text me for questions or anything +17015667707. contact him Via whatsapp+2349057353987.

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  24. Best Online Spell Caster Reviwes
    Dont let relationship problem cause you heart break, Life is all about good and bad experience...i was hurting REAL bad when my husband left me but now i can't really believe that i am with my Ex-Husband again and With this little short time and just want to use it in thanking the great man that brought joy back to my life within 48 hours by bringing back my lover. Yes it was true that i had some difficulties with my lover but today i am back here to tell the world that Dr.goodluck brought my lover back to me. I have always heard of love spell but i never had an idea of how effective it can be. Well my time is up just contact Dr.goodluck at his email goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com and you can also whatapp him or call with his mobile +2349059610309. To enable you have a taste of his great work.

    goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com
    http://goodluck05spellcaster.yolasite.com

    ReplyDelete
  25. How to Save Your Marriage And Stop Divorce
    I visited a forum here on the internet on the 15TH OF MAY 2015, And i saw a marvelous testimony of this powerful and great spell caster called DR. GOODLUCK on the forum..I never believed it, because i never heard nor learnt anything about spells before.. Not a soul would have been able to influence me about magical spells, not until DR. GOODLUCK did it for me and restored my marriage of 8 years back to me and brought my wife back to me in just 17hours just as i read on the internet..i was truly astonished and shocked when my wife knelt down begging for forgiveness and for me to accept her back.. I am really short of expressions, and i don't know how much to convey my appreciation to you DR. GOODLUCK you are a God sent to me and my entire family.. And now i am a joyful man once again.. here is his Email: goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com and you can also whatapp him or call with his mobile +2349059610309..You can also contact him for the following.

    help in casting spell to win LOTTERY (LOTTERY spell)
    He can help in Saving Marriage And Stop Divorce
    He can help cure HIV
    Help in getting Love back
    Finding your Soul Mate for life
    and so many more

    goodluck05spellcaster@gmail.com
    http://goodluck05spellcaster.yolasite.com

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  26. My name is Naomi Struttgard, I am here to testify to the good work of the RealPowerfulSpells professionals. 4 years ago, my husband left home, he never returned, no phone calls, no letters, no emails, no sign of him anywhere. my daughter got sick with multiple sclerosis, things were so tough for me. I had lost hope, 2 years ago, i met a psychic, he said he would help me,i paid over $6800 and still nothing happened, i lost hope completely, my daughter's situation got worse each day.last month, i saw a posting concerning the good works of the RealPowerfulSpells, i gave them a try...she never ask me for money, for all three spells (Bring Lover back, Healing spell and Career spells). In a matter of weeks, my husband called me and told me he was sorry and that he wants to come back to me and that he would explain everything when he comes back, three days later, i got a new job with a loan and finance company, right now, my daughter's condition is getting better each day and i trust she would be well in a matter of days.I want to thank the RealPowerfulSpells Professionals for their efforts and for bringing my life back to normal and so close to perfection.My name is Naomi Struttgard, i live in Indonesia, for more information, you can contact realpowerfulspells@hotmail.com

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  27. Hello I am Brenda, I'm out here to spreed this good news to the entire world on how I got my ex lover back.I was going crazy when my love left me for another woman last month, But when i meet a friend that introduce me to prophet Williams the great messenger to the oracle that he serve,I narrated my problem to prophet Williams about how my ex husband left me and also how i needed to get a job in a very big company. He only said to me that i have come to the right place were i will be getting my heart desire without any side effect.He told me what i needed to do,After it was been done,In the next 48 hours ,My husband called me on the phone and was saying sorry for living me before now and also in the next one week after my husband returned home ,I was called for an interview in my desired company were i needed to work as the manager..I am so happy and overwhelmed that i have to tell this to the entire world to contact prophet Williams at the following email address and get all your problem solve..No problem is too big for him to solve..Contact him direct on email: prophetwilliamsspiritualtemple@gmail.com
    and get your problems solve like me..... ONCE AGAIN HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS: prophetwilliamsspiritualtemple@gmail.com . and you can call him on +2349029587438 that is his Whats App number too THANKS..

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  28. My wife and I had a wonderful 22 years of marriage with 4 kids. It so happened that a girl tempted me by text and by no means I was able to entertain her text until then that we exchanged text. It lasted fro almost 2 months till it was discovered by my family. Trouble erupted between my wife and I that until now for almost a year we've been arguing on these things. That we don't have good marriage relationships. I don't want to leave the house because I love my wife, my children, family. My wife said she does not love me anymore but I don't believe in it. My wife is angry with me for what I have done but I am not surrendering and making all things I could to win her back. which also i contacted a spell caster to help me out coz i love my wife,and i believe He will make miracle to our marriage and heal the wounds in the heart of my wife. Always praying that God's love will dwell in our hearts esp. in my wife's heart so that the hurt will be gone. I have faith in the Lord that He will solution to these problem. Trusting in Dr happy, that in His time we will be again living happy and enjoying the moments of our life. Pray that right people will be there to influence my wife towards the healing process. Please for us i love my wife and i need her back. one day, great miracle occur in my family some one like a father to me restored my marriage and bring my wife back to me with-in 2 day after my trust on him all thanks to Dr happy the great plz my Advise is to contact him if you need his help of getting your ex back and protect your marriage for divorce email him at happylovespell2@gmail.com also call him or add him on whats-app +2348133873774

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  29. My name is Lisa, I really want to testify to the good work of Dr ozias for what he has don for me . couple of years ago, my husband left home after we had little misunderstanding, he never returned, no phone calls, no letters, no emails and no sign of him anywhere.and at the same time My daughter got sick so ill, things were so tough for me. I had lost hope, 2 years ago, i met a psychic, he said he would help me, i give him a try but all to no nothing happened, i lost hope completely, my daughter\'s situation got worse each day. Last month, i saw a posting concerning the good works of the Spiritual professional(Dr ozias), i told the great man my problem and he told me that there is nothing to be worry about for me contacting him all my problem is solve .. He asked me to provide the spiritual materials needed to cast the spells and of course which i did (Bring Lover back, Healing spell and Career spells). In a matter of Days, my husband called me and told me he was sorry and that he wants to come back to me and that he would explain everything when he comes back, three days later, i got a call from the new job i apply for with an Real Estate company, right now, my daughter\'s is finally healed and my husband is also back finally also i have gotten a job from a big company. I want to thanks Dr ozias,for what he has don for me and my family. you can contact him via email: dr.ozaisspellcaster@hotmail.com he is the solution to all problem i no you are going to be the next to share your testimony to people you can call the great man on +2349039545297.

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  30. Get your ex lover back before Xmas and new year urgently(templeofjoyandprosperity@gmail.com)

    Hello, i am Jessica Wayne from TX, USA. Life without my husband was a real mess for me and my children I am so happy to get my Ex back through the help of Dr Noble the spell caster . My greatest surprise was that 48 hours after the Doctor prepared the spell for me, my husband who has abandoned me for 4 years suddenly called me unexpectedly and am so happy that we have come to become one again through the help of Dr Noble and am so happy to be with my husband once again. Dr Noble is a very wonderful spell caster, you can contact him if you need his assistant because i know he can also help you. contact him through his email: templeofjoyandprosperity@gmail.com immediately

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