HOW WE GOT HERE: Why do people hate Clinton so much!

TUESDAY, JULY 26, 2016

Part 2—Skipping one obvious answer:
In this morning's Washington Post, Richard Cohen asks a very good question:

Why do people hate Hillary Clinton so much? Cohen offers several possible answers, steering away from one.

Why do people hate Clinton so much? Over at Slate, Michelle Goldberg decided to ask the same question. Her piece appears beneath these headlines:
The Hillary Haters
Few figures in American political life have inspired such deep and decades-long contempt. But why?
Why do people hate Clinton so much? Goldberg decided to go Cohen one better. She went out and asked an undisclosed number people why they hate Clinton so much.

In the course of her undescribed search, Goldberg turned up some of the usual suspects. She spoke with a 49-year-old Iowan who supported McCain in 2008 but now is in love with Sanders. She spoke with a 22-year-old medical student who rattled a list of "suspicious deaths" around the fiendish Clinton, who he sees as a sociopath.

(The "febrile" young man cited 47 suspicious deaths. In future years, he may not be the medical figure you want on your death panel.)

Goldberg's undescribed search took her far and wide. She even turned up a 78-year old Los Angeles songwriter "[whose] work has been recorded by Julie London, Mama Cass, and Harry Belafonte, among others."

Goldberg describes this fascinating case in some detail:
GOLDBERG (7/24/16): Like many of the people I spoke to, Rosner’s antipathy doesn’t follow a precise ideological trajectory. Now 78, she says her negative feelings about Clinton first arose during Bill Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign. Rosner says she was especially irritated when, in response to criticism of her work at the Rose Law Firm, Hillary said, “You know, I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession.”

“That bugged me,” says Rosner. “She was putting down regular women, people who stay home and take care of kids and bake cookies.” It’s not that Rosner was offended on behalf of housewives; she herself has always had a career. “I just thought it was a stupid comment,” she says. “I don’t think she’s as smart as most people think she is, or seem to think she is.”

Rosner also makes a fairly standard progressive case against Clinton. “I don’t like her support for the Iraq war,” she says. “She didn’t support same-sex marriage until it became a popular issue. Her email stuff—she is the only one that would not testify, and I think that’s bullshit. I don’t like her friendship with Netanyahu. I think they’ve destroyed the Middle East with Iraq. I don’t like that she takes money from big banks. She doesn’t support universal health care. For all those reasons. I think she’s more a Republican than a Democrat, and I refuse to vote for Republicans, ever.”

All the same, Rosner says she would happily vote for Joe Biden, who also voted for the Iraq war. In the Senate, Biden was known for his deep ties to the credit card industry, and as a presidential candidate, he didn’t support universal health insurance. “Yeah, Biden does not have all the positions I would like, but he has a certain kind of humanity that touches me,” she says.
Hillary-hatred can last a long time! This hater is still citing Clinton's "baking cookies" remark from March 1992. She still burns with tears of rage!

As Goldberg notes, Hillary hatred can also evade "precise ideological trajectory." When it comes to more literal politics, this particular Hillary hater cites Clinton's vote for the war resolution along with her original stance against same-sex marriage. At the same time, she'd be happy to vote for Vice President Biden, who also supported the war resolution and who also "didn’t support same-sex marriage until it became a popular issue."

Despite Biden's retrogade views, this hater likes his humanity! She hates Clinton, but likes the guy whose Senate voting record was actually somewhat less liberal.

Where does all this Hillary hatred come from? Obviously, Goldberg's search is highly anecdotal. There's no way to know how representative her Hillary haters are.

That said, Goldberg tries every theory of the case—every theory save one. Like Cohen in today's column, she is partial to the idea that sexism and misogyny are involved in the hate—and almost surely, they are.

Goldberg is also willing to entertain theories which revolve around Clinton's shortcomings. In this passage, Goldberg makes a very good point, though it doesn't really succeed as an explanation of hatred:
GOLDBERG: Most Americans, however, are not frothing partisans. For many of them, something in addition to sexism is at work in Clinton’s unpopularity—some mystery of mass media connection. There’s a reason actors do screen tests: Not everyone’s charm translates to film and video. For as long as Hillary Clinton has been in public life, people who’ve met in her person have marveled at how much more likable she is in the flesh than she is on television.
Goldberg asks an excellent question. Would Hillary Clinton have passed a "screen test" to be a major politician?

Actually, no, she probably wouldn't have passed. Her performance skills are quite limited, and she's a bit of gaffe machine. This dates back to the tone deaf "baking cookies" comment in March 1992, and to her tone deaf statement two months earlier, in which Clinton seemed to diss Tammy Wynette in her first appearance on the national stage.

We remember watching that 60 Minutes program and wondering how a Southern first lady could make such an obvious gaffe. Like many people before us, we'll suggest the obvious answer:

Bill Clinton was a highly skilled natural pol. His wife pretty much was not.

Hillary Clinton is a bit of "legacy" pol. Based on the evidence of her skills, there's no reason to think that she'd be where she is if she had been required to get there "on her own," without the initial giant boost from Bill Clinton's position.

To state the obvious, that doesn't make Hillary Clinton a bad person—and it doesn't explain the hate. So what explains the depth of the hatred? And why is she hated at all?

This is now a profoundly important question. In November, Clinton will be running against the craziest major party candidate in American history.

Her opponent is virtually allergic to truth, yet Clinton is seen as The World's Biggest Liar! For that reason, she may end up losing to this craziest candidate—for that reason, and because of all the hate.

Why is Clinton hated so much? Goldberg pretends to wonder. She considers every possible answer—every answer save one.

Tomorrow, we'll return to the obvious possible answer which Goldberg and Cohen both skipped. Why is Clinton hated so much? As it has long been decreed in the guild, Goldberg and Cohen both chose to skip one obvious part of the answer.

Tomorrow, we'll read through Goldberg's essay again, noting the possible answer she very deliberately skipped. When we do, you'll be able to see, once again, how guild members like Goldberg and Cohen may yet send Candidate Trump to the White House, helped along by the mandated silence of their many enablers and friends.

Tomorrow: The road not taken

Still coming: She lied about the Cubs and the Yanks! Also, she even lied about her own freaking name!

36 comments:

  1. Lets not forget that not everyone hates Hillary. She had enough support to win more primary votes than Obama and Sanders, she was elected to the Senate in her own right, and she inspired a PUMA movement that was every bit as determined as the Bernie or Bust contingent. Some people do hate her but many others love her. If she is so hated, how can that be?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
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      Delete
  2. If you want to get rich in this country, invent something. That goes double for you journalists out there.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Some of us disapprove of Hillary because of her terrible decision to push for the overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya. Why terrible? Several reasons:

    1. There was no need to intervene in Libya.

    2. Overthrowiong Gaddafi would produce no obvious gain to the US.

    3. There was no adequate plan to deal with the aftermath of Gaddafi's overthrow.

    4. Bush had convinced Gaddafi to end his nuclear program in exchange for US support. By instead overthrowing him, Clinton and Obama showed the world that the US couldn't be counted on to keep its word.

    5. We already were trying to deal with enormous problems in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. We didn't need yet another problem country in the region.

    6. The result has been a disaster. A breeding ground for Islamic terrorists.

    Why did Hillary recommend ousting Gaddafi? Reports say she thought it would be easy to oust him and she could list that as an achievement. Thousands have died and continue to die because of Hillary's attempt to boost her reputation.

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    Replies
    1. Obama was President, as I recall.

      There was a civil war in Libya being conducted by the people of that country. Do you imagine they would have stopped their rebellion because of anything said in the US? Should we have supported Gaddafi in brutally suppressing those rebels? What about the civilians caught in the middle?

      What about the UN and the other nations in the region? Do you imagine the US acted unilaterally and without regard to their interests?

      What "reputation" do you imagine Hillary was trying to boost?

      If Hillary had been on the other side of this argument, arguing that Obama should let Libya go its own way, arguing that the US should not support the UN resolution and stay out of the situation, she would be blamed for that -- for the deaths of those civilians, for the ongoing conflict, for the increasing turmoil and disruption in the region. And the outcome in terms of instability would have been exactly the same. This is the consensus of most foreign policy experts.

      Republicans have seized on this because it is an event that happened during her term as Secretary of State and there is little else to use to discredit her performance. She had no major screw-ups so this more ambiguous crap needs to be inflated to sound like a mistake. As you note, Gaddafi had little to do with the US and his overthrow had little consequence, but somehow it is large enough to influence your opinion of Clinton? That makes no sense at all.

      Delete
    2. Think the Republicans are tough on Hillary? Democratic Underground said:

      Hillary sees Gaddafi's ouster as feather in her cap but it unleashed terror

      Hillary Clinton still sees the 2011 Libyan “regime change” as a feather in her cap as Secretary of State, but the violent ouster of Muammar Gaddafi turned Libya into a badlands for Islamic terrorists who have spread their killing sprees far and wide, just as Gaddafi warned

      snip

      Since Gaddafi’s fall in 2011, Libya has exported thousands of its own extremists to support jihad in other countries. In Syria, one group of Libyan supporters of ISIS went by the name of Katibat al-Battar al Libi. One of its leaders was none other than Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected organizer of the recent Paris attacks.


      snip


      With the release of Hillary Clinton’s emails, we now know that she had learned from an adviser that France was stoking the uprising to impose a “new government of Libya to favor French firms and national interests, particularly regarding the oil industry in Libya.” France used humanitarian flights to shuttle executives from leading oil, construction and aerospace firms into the country to negotiate with the opposition so they could profit from the new order.

      To this day, Clinton remains unapologetic about her strong advocacy of U.S. intervention. Yet Libya has become a lawless land fought over by 1,700 armed groups and militias. At least a third of the country’s population has been affected by the fighting and lacks adequate access to health services, according to the United Nations.

      “Libya today — in spite of the expectations we had at the time of the revolution — it’s much, much worse,” one Mideast expert told PBS Frontline. “Criminality is skyrocketing. Insecurity is pervasive. There are no jobs. It’s hard to get food and electricity. There’s fighting, there’s fear. … I see very few bright spots.”


      http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511674221

      Pravda calls her a War Criminal.

      Those responsible for the dire situation in Libya today sitting in their offices in Europe or on the campaign trail in the USA...should not only hang their heads in shame but prepare themselves for due legal process as war criminals....

      Into action swung the dynamic duo Obama and Hillary, the Batman and Catwoman of international affairs, complete with their willing bedpals Cameron and William Hague - Robin and the Riddler - and the sickening wannabe Napoleon: Sarkozy, the Joker. Holed up in Benghazi since 2010, the entire Libyan escapade was planned from beginning to end by the FUKUS Axis which committed war crimes, breached the Geneva Conventions and broke international law.

      http://www.pravdareport.com/world/africa/02-02-2016/133227-libya_hillary-0/#sthash.UAXfGMXA.dpuf

      Delete
    3. You are seriously quoting Pravda?

      Democratic Underground doesn't say what you quoted. Some random commenter named Snagglepuss did.

      What a liar you are!

      Delete
    4. "What a liar you are!"

      Doing what he does the best.

      Delete
    5. Why the Surprise?July 26, 2016 at 6:45 PM

      "You are seriously quoting Pravda?"

      He's previously quoted Stormfront and then when that was pointed out, he defended the quote.

      Delete
  4. Not only is Clinton maligned, but it is her fault she is disliked because she hasn't dealt with the attacks on her properly:

    “There’s a narrative here, and it’s a real narrative, and she hasn’t dealt with it at all,” said David Winston, Republican pollster and former aide to Bill Clinton-era House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) “The challenge for her is the things that have happened recently that are feeding into an existing storyline.”

    If Hillary were worth liking, she would have dispelled all of the attacks on her. Even Somerby damns her as not a natural politician, like Bill, because the way to be a good politician is the way the guys do it, and because when women do what the guys do, they are called shrill or unnatural, insufficiently comfortable on stage, etc.

    Today, Michelle Obama is receiving a great deal of well-earned praise for her speech last night. But notice how she stayed within the boundaries for women. Her speech was about leaving a better world for our children. It is natural for any mother to care strongly about her children, and by extension, the nation's children. It is natural for a first lady to decorate the White House, and by extension, the nation's highways as Lady Bird did. Michelle has never strayed from the defined limits of interest for a first lady, home and hearth. She has done a great job as first lady but she has always played it safe, as is her right to do.

    Hillary has never played it safe. Thus, she must be stomped on, hard. Or other women will be emboldened by her example. She is truly dangerous because she has ability (just as many women are smart and hard-working) but also because she is fearless, persistent, and ignores the boundaries. She must be stopped or so badly damaged that other women will be deterred from their aspirations by her example. This works -- women do avoid the fields where they are hazed and harassed. The stakes are higher in politics so the hazing is worse.

    If the media has aided this effort, they are acting as agents of a larger male-dominated power structure.

    Many of us love Hillary precisely because she is hated. But it is disappointing to hear Somerby join the chorus -- Hillary brought it on herself by not addressing the hatred properly, by being different and not a "natural" politician like Bill, for daring to follow in his footsteps (e.g., riding his coat tails, as if no one would otherwise have voted for her). As if!

    ReplyDelete
  5. For myself, I started out first not liking Bill. I did not like him as a candidate and I liked him less the longer he was in office. I thought he was too conservative - especially on economics. I tend to be the opposite. Clinton was liberal on social issues, conservative on economic ones. I am conservative on social issues, liberal on economic ones.

    Illogically enough I liked Gore even though he was said to be in the conservative wing of Clinton's cabinet.

    I did not like Hillary's campaign for the Senate. It just seemed absolutely wrong for somebody to run for a New York Senate seat when they were never a New Yorker. That was somewhat personal to me too - it's my mom's home state.

    Her Senate run seems to paint a clear picture of a disgusting political process in this country. A bunch of party big shots hand picking somebody rich and famous to run for public office to supposedly serve the people and rich donors making it clear nobody could challenge her.

    Anyway, that is just me. On the larger scene I think Hillary hatred is sorta like hatred of the Yankees.In the beginning, you don't hate them - you just don't want them to win. Except they keep winning. And the more they win, the more you hate them - for winning.

    The Clintons are the symbol, for those of us on the left, (and me too) of - everything that is wrong with our party. Having them on the top means people like Kaine for VP and other corporate tools in the cabinet and heading the DNC and running for Congress and all the way down the line. Pushing (and buying) the Democratic Party further and further to the right.

    Yes we would rather lose with a McGovern than "win" with a Clinton dammit. Better to fight your enemy and lose than to "defeat" your enemy by becoming him.

    On the conservative side, maybe the hatred is ideological too. I hate them because they are economically conservative. The right hates them because they are socially liberal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. After being first lady of the entire US and living in Washington DC for 8 years, she is only entitled to run for office in Arkansas?

      Delete
    2. When the political left tried to shove Caroline Kennedy down the throats of voters (as the payoff to Ted Kennedy for supporting Obama), what happened? If Hillary had not been preferred by voters in NY, voters would have done the same to her. Why didn't they? Her opponent had equal name recognition and she was the newcomer.

      How did she perform in office as Senator? Identically to Bernie and to Obama. Does that disappoint you as a liberal Democrat. How exactly did she serve her financial masters and corporate interests while Senator? What did she DO?

      Delete
  6. I have been amazed at how many of my liberal friends and relatives hate Hillary. This morning I read on a liberal blog that she is "mendacious, hawkish, and in the pocket of Wall Street. From the very beginning, I think, she’s been all about herself, almost as if she were owed a turn at the Presidency after Bill’s tenure."

    I've always thought the origin of Hillary hate to be 25 years of both liberal and conservative scorn in the media, but now I think there is a common cause. They hate her for the same reason some hate Obama: they see her as uppity. It is sexism all the way down.

    ReplyDelete
  7. While I don't hate Hillary, I often find her irritating. One particular peeve I have is that when she is caught having done something she shouldn't have done, she way to often claims it's ok because it isn't a crime. As if the criminal code was a standard of behavior.

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    Replies
    1. Heaven forbid she should defend herself when accused of criminal behavior!

      Delete
  8. coincidence detectorJuly 26, 2016 at 1:46 PM

    (((Richard Cohen))) and (((Michelle Goldberg))) as same question on same day, come to same conclusions. What a coincidence!

    ReplyDelete
  9. The fact that anyone is asking this question suggests something is wrong in the way Clinton is treated.

    If the question were "Why do people hate Trump so much?" the answer would be so obvious they would wonder why anyone had to ask.

    The question of course should be "Why does everyone pick on Clinton so much?" The answer is "To make people hate her." and it seems to be working.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The question should be "Why doesn't anyone ask my question the way I would ask it and not take "no" for an answer."

      Delete
  10. Actually Hillary got very favorable ratings as Secretary of State up until late 2012:

    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

    The attacks on her regarding Benghazi started immediately in Sept. 2012. Did those do it? Benghazi is actually one of the phoniest of the Clinton "scandals". Who but a dedicated Clinton hater would credit those attacks? Anyway, will Bob's answer take account of this chronology? Will anyone's?

    ReplyDelete
  11. This thread seems like the best one for posting a comment that I posted to Maureen Dowd's interview column with Governor Hickenlooper in the NYT. The NYT frequently does NOT publish my comments to her columns. Readers here may enjoy what I wrote.

    Nice Column. It's nice to read something by Maureen Dowd that involved her actually talking to the subject of her column. It's nice that she treated the governor with respect. It's nice that she reported what he said and did not make somehing up, as far as we can tell. It's nice that she respected NYT readers. It's nice that she did not throw in a gratuitous negative comment about Hillary or Bill or President Obama. It'd be even nicer if Maureen Dowd did actual face to face reporting and respected NYT readers more often than once a decade or so -- this 1 time out of the past 500 columns.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Why does Bob Somerby hate liberals so much?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because he is an old, white, conservative man.

      Delete
    2. And you are a bigot.

      Delete
    3. No I'm telling the truth about BS and you can't handle it.

      Delete
    4. Your "truth" is simplistic, bigoted quips in response to detailed, literate essays.

      Delete
  13. They let him down.

    ReplyDelete
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  21. I was not happy until i met Dr.Agbazara through these details +2348104102662 OR agbazara@gmail.com because my husband has left me and never had the intention of coming back home. But just within 48 hours that i contacted Dr. Agbazara my marriage changed to the positive side, At first my husband came back home and since then my marriage has been more peaceful and romantic than ever before

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  22. Just few weeks ago I saw a comment about Dr. Ekpen Temple, someone talking about how he has help him in his relationship break up, I also contacted him because i was facing the same problem in my relationship, today i can boldly recommend Dr. Ekpen Temple to someone who is also facing break up in his or her relationship to contact him for help today because he has help me restore my relationship back to normal, here is he contact details (ekpentemple@gmail.com) or WHATSAPP him on +2347050270218

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