SATURDAY, AUGUST 12, 2023
Sophocles, by the Aegean: One New York Times reader is sick and tired of people like the Times' David Brooks.
His letter will appear in Sunday's editions. His letter goes like this:
To the Editor:
Re “What if We’re the Bad Guys Here?,” by David Brooks (column, Aug. 4):
I am sick and tired of people like Mr. Brooks telling me that I am the problem or the “bad guy” because I am educated (and no, I was not educated at an Ivy League school, and neither of my parents finished high school) to justify the fact that 35 percent of the population are fervent supporters of Donald Trump, no matter what he says or does.
Moreover, Mr. Trump is also part of the elite, but his supporters simply ignore this. This is not because he identifies with them in any way (as a golden-haired billionaire living in a mansion), but because Fox, Newsmax, and other right-wing TV and radio media outlets, right-wing militias and Trump puppet politicians in Congress essentially brainwashed them with their daily dose of propaganda about how the “left wing socialists and communists,” “elites,” the “woke,” etc., are all conspiring to take their country and only Donald Trump can stop them.
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem, Mr. Brooks, not educated Americans who as you correctly state are “are earnest, kind and public spirited.”
So, let’s not beat ourselves up because the other side has been completely brainwashed, does not accept facts, scientific and otherwise, is obsessed with conspiracies and lives in a right-wing echo chamber.
M— H— / Centerport, N.Y.
The letter writer had read the David Brooks column of Friday, August 4. In that column, Brooks suggested that highly educated elites of the blue tribal world may have played a role, down through the past sixty years, in the rise of Trumpism.
Sad! The letter writer believed that Brooks was talking about him in particular. He insists that he himself isn't "the bad guy" just because he's "educated" (has a college degree).
You could hardly write a less insightful letter; the Times features it in a long list of letters about the column in question. As Paul Simpon notes at the very end of his Graceland album, "That's why we must learn to live alone."
By the end of his letter, the letter writer has fully restored the world of tribal certainty. The other side "has been completely brainwashed," he triumphantly declares, even as he restores the brainwashing to which we blues are persistently subjected.
Sophocles heard it by the Aegean! Given the way our brains are wired, we simply can't have nice things!
The letter writer is of course spot on, but hits only about 20 percent of what is completely ridiculous about Brook’s column and Bob’s defense of it.
ReplyDeleteBob condescends to the letter writer, but does not do him the respect of explaining where he is wrong. He is just mad at the Times for giving him a voice.
Almost any non Maga supporter could out debate Bob and do every time he makes weak arguments about Trump and his supporters in his blog. Bob brainwashed himself with his own hatred, the inner voice that is all he listens to.
The letter writer doesn't realize that they are similarly brainwashed to the same degree. So many millions of other liberals are in the exact same boat.
ReplyDeleteHow so?
DeleteThere is, sadly, no way to counter your balderdash at this point except to say “see you in Court.” What really terrifies you and Bob is that you have the chance
Deleteto prove what’s true.
In lots of ways. Brainwashed to think that the two parties are looking out for your best interests. Or whatever the party you pick, the party you've come to identify with, the brand you've chosen, however you want to say it. Brainwashed into thinking they are different or good.
DeleteSo I guess nobody has any good intentions except you.
DeleteDemocrats and Republicans are different. The person who keeps commenting that both parties are the same is a troll. Convincing progressives that Democrats are no different from Republicans is how the Russians got the Bernie Bros to stay home, throwing Democratic states to Trump in 2016. How did that work out for us? No Labels is playing the same game.
DeleteThey're not meaningfully different but issue is that they don't have your best interests at heart. You think that they are good and care about you. That's what the brainwashing is. And there's of course lots of other things on the smaller scale. Like you think Biden has agency over unemployment numbers or even that unemployment numbers are a meaningful statistic. The brainwashing is vast.
DeleteA political party is not my mother. I don’t expect them to “care about” me at all. I expect them to have a platform with positions on issues, a coherent program and goals for when in office. And yes, unemployment stats matter, as does the rest of the economic plan. But I have a job, so that is not personally relevant. I want to see good government for others too. And yes, Biden has a slew of choices that will help or hurt goals I think are important. It isn’t brainwashing to think that. Objectively, Trump was a very bad president for everyone except rich people. Biden has been doing a great job. I want more Biden and no more Trump. And yes, I vote.
DeleteYes, you don't know you're brainwashed in the exact same way as the other side. Anyone who thinks there's two sides has been brainwashed. But you don't realize it of course. Divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book and the reason why is because it works so well. This is a perfect example. Like voting. Your brainwashed into thinking your vote counts. Anyway I could go on forever. It's not something you can see. It's like that David Foster Wallace joke about fish.🤟🤟🤟✝️
DeleteBetter trolling please.
DeleteTo ride a horse you have to break it, destroy its spirit in order to gain dominance and force it into servility; similarly, you have to break a child in order to brainwash and indoctrinate that child into religion, an event often so traumatizing that when left unresolved can cause emergent traits like an obsession with hierarchy and dominance, ie it creates a right winger.
DeleteThere are three sides.
Delete8:36,
DeleteThis is why I tell Right-wingers the Republican Party supports Antifa and Black Lives Matter. They get mad and call me a "Libtard", but you and I both know I speak the truth.
#bothsidesarethesame
Beware of the trolls: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/13/opinion/masculinity-right-young-men.html
Delete"You could hardly write a less insightful letter..."
ReplyDeleteWow. A totally incoherent opinion column, which could hardly be written with less insight, got a lees than insightful response. Go figure.
The letter writer covered a portion of Brook’s nonsense and effectively dismissed it. But there is nothing incoherent about the letter. You either believe, as Bob does, that liberals are responsible for conservatives irresponsible foolishness or you don’t. Bob does.
DeleteDecent letter. But not enough about Republicans shrugging their shoulders (or applauding) over Trump's HUGE tax breaks for corporate and rich elites, while throwing a childish temper tantrum when black people's votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election.
DeleteRepublicans prefer black people to pick cotton than to vote. Considering this context, Brooks’ and Somerby’s nonsense makes sense, dementedly so.
DeleteOnce David Brooks decided to disappear the outright bigotry of Trump voters, it was inevitable that he would pretend Republican voters know one or more things about economics.
ReplyDeleteThe letter writer claims that Trump supporters ignore the fact that he is also part of the elite ( we can assume this means a totally self interested billionare) and Bob highlights this. Does Bob DISPUTE this? I’d like to hear his case.
ReplyDeleteThe letter writer faults Trump supporters for supporting him despite his educational achievements. But, Trump supporters have nothing against Ivy League degrees (or blacks) as their support for Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas shows.
ReplyDeleteIt's the liberals who claim to support educational achievements. Yet liberals call Donald Trump dumb and Joe Biden smart, even though Trump is the one with an Ivy League degree.
IMO conservatives support conservative candidates and liberals support liberal candidates, regardless of race, education, sexual orientation, or any other personal characteristics.
That’s not what the letter says. He decries Brooks for deploring educational “elites” which he does all the time, and which Bob does when an Ivy League person has an opinion he doesn’t like.
DeleteTrump does reveal considerable corruption in the Educational System. Based on his tweets, it’s obvious Trump reads and writes at about a sixth grade level. It’s well known he never read books and had zero intellectual curiosity. His degree was purchased. There simply is no serious way to dispute this.
David ignores the veiws of 95 percent of black people and only credits the Toms and sell outs. Playing the Clarence Thomas card, in the hour of his appalling shame shows David’s cluelessness has no bottom.
The letter writer is pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about Dems as elites while worshipping a guy wit a gold toilet.
DeleteEvery time you mention Sowell or Thomas, I feel sad that they went to college but evidently didn't benefit from it as they could have done.
David, Trump hired people to take tests for him and his daddy had to make a donation to get him into his Ivy League school.
David, the one characteristic you left out is sex. If both sides support their own, why has there never been a female president from either party? Also, you left out nationality. Liberals follow the rules but Republicans have welcomed both campaign contributions (money from oligarchs), hacking of opponents, and direct meddling by Russia in our American elections. It is how they beat Hillary.
Bothsides are not the same in this situation.
Anti-intellectualism is a long-standing tradition in American politics. I cited Hofstadter's book yesterday. Republicans are worse than Democrats when it comes to mocking the educated and despising elites (where elite means educated).
We are in a time period where there is a deepening technology divide, where high paying jobs with future prospects depend on education. Meanwhile, Republicans are saying "college isn't for everyone" and trying to weaken higher education for political reasons. That will leave a growing underclass of people who are shut out of professions and high paying tech jobs, especially in the red states. Rich people don't care, since they want cheaper labor. But if you have a college age kid, you need to be helping them to prepare themselves for a competitive workforce, or you will be supporting them in the gig economy.
Creepy David,
DeleteClarence Thomas’ guiding principal is to make liberal lives miserable, while corruptly enjoying a lavish lifestyle paid for by billionaires with interests before the Supreme Court.
Thomas Sowell is a moron that thinks the root of Black peoples’ suffering is gangster rap.
The way right wingers use these two clowns via tokenism is repulsive and racist.
Liz says hi and reminds you that you’re lying about being her cousin.
Well, Clarence Thomas’s guiding principle was always to enrich himself. He lied, as was obvious from his video rentals, from the get go. Only a truly perverse mentality would keep throwing him up as anything but an American disaster.
Delete@7:35 thanks for your thoughtful, well-written comment. I disagree with one point: IMO there are smart and dumb people on both sides of the political realm. Take Chuck Schumer. I don't agree with his political views. I don't think his favored policies would work. But I acknowledge that he's smart. It's just not the case that someone who disagrees with you is automatically dumb or ignorant.
DeleteI am saddened by commenters who automatically claim that Sowell is dumb without knowing any of his accomplishments. Go read a bunch of his books. You will find that they are unusually well-researched - with the principles he observes shown in several different countries and ethnicities.
I shouldn't respond to @1:16 and, but will point out:
1, My cousin Lizzie never calls herself Liz, as any friend would know.
2. Clarence Thomas could make a fortune with a big law firm, so he isn't primarily motivated by money.
Thomas would have nothing to offer a large firm. On the Supreme Court, he can sell his vote and he has clerks who do his work for him. So, yes, this is about money for him.
Delete@4:17 Clarence Thomas is noted for writing his own decisions, rather than having his clerks write them, as other Justices do.
DeleteObviously an ex-Justice would carry a lot of weight in a big law firm.
That’s a small part of the work a justice does. An ex-justice would bring respect if he weren’t corrupt like Thomas.
DeleteThomas lacks competence and integrity. No big firm will want him, except a Republican one rewarding him for past service.
DeleteDavid, your research into helping your Lizzie Skurnick lie was shallow: if you dig deep enough, ie 5 minutes on Google, you’ll find she is directly quoted saying that her friends and family call her Liz.
DeleteOof.
Not sure why you are lying about this, but Liz (Lizzie Skurnick) is not your cousin and she finds it creepy that you lie about it.
I agree Clarence Thomas is not primarily motivated by financial gain, he’s operating more from hate; but that hasn’t stopped him from being corruptly bought and paid for by billionaires helping him live the good life.
I agree with the letter writer. I also understand his objection to being called an elite for being educated. Someone whose parents did not go to college has an extra obstacle not shared by those with college educated parents, since the entire process is new and they do not have anyone to mentor them or help them figure out the details of getting educated. That has nothing to do with money. This letter writer has overcome some obstacles in order to get educated, and will rightfully feel piqued that he is being blamed for something he worked hard to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteI find it odd that Somerby is once again arguing against education. I again wonder what the DID to him at Harvard that has resulted in such a backlash.
Dueling brainwashing accusations are silly. We have ways to determine what is true and what is not. Some of those methods arise from scientific method. Others are part of critical thinking. You learn both of these at college (if not at high school). Being able to tell truth from brainwashinging and lies is one of the major benefits of going to college and becoming educated. A student who pays attention in class can be protected from the likelihood of being taken in by Somerby or the right wing (Q-Anon and conspiracy theorists). Yes, someone can go to college and still wind up an idiot (i.e., Ted Cruz, David in Cal), but it is less likely to happen, and that is why Democratic voters have higher education levels on average, despite also having more immigrants and poor people among our ranks.
Somerby's main objection seems to be that this letter writer referred to Republicans as "the other side." That isn't the same as calling them The Other (as Somerby does) and it is not dehumanizing them, otherizing them. It merely says they are political opponents, which they definitely are.
Are we back to trivialities and nitpicks again? It is not against the law for Democrats to not believe in the crap shoveled by the right wing. I'm glad this letter writer exercised his right to express an opinion. I find it odd that Somerby should object to Democrats doing that from time to time. It is one of the freedoms our country is known for.
The bottom line of these dubious both siderists is probably best underlined by the hapless Bill Maher. The position is
ReplyDeleteYes, Trump is insane and he tried to take over the Country, where he would like to instal himself as a dictator.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND: these people really hate. You, I mean, they hate you a lot. Their hatefulness must be your own fault.
Well, the guy who wrote that letter, like a lot of us, don't see it that way. Most of your hateful stems from the fact we won the popular vote 6 out the last 7 times, and you just can't figure out how that can be, in spite of the fact your country offers the Country nothing. Yes, we are the United States of Sore Losers, but that doesn't mean you get to lie, cheat, and break the law. Not you, not your fruitcake leader.
By the looks of it, it's cult. Good luck reasoning with that.
ReplyDeleteDemocrats need to second guess their assumptions about the effectiveness of their party elders. Biden is the most unpopular president in modern times. Except maybe for Jimmy Carter but after that, that's it. And his family took in millions from Communists and dictators.
ReplyDelete4:13 you are a creepy liar, and we will see you in Court….
DeleteBiden is also the best President of the USA in over half a century.
DeleteBiden took millions from Donald Trump's heroes, like Orban, Kim Jong Un, and Ron DeSantis?
DeleteRight wing projection @9:27
DeleteThe metrics are projecting defeat.
DeleteTry to understand that both Papadopoulos and Bobulinski have testified that Hunter gave polling data to Chinese oligarchs in exchange for a sports car.
DeleteTry to understand that Hunter Biden was a private citizen and Biden was VP when Hunter bought a sportscar in 2014. You need to establish a quid pro quo to implicate Joe Biden in anything his son did. Two Republicans swearing to something is not evidence of anything. I’ve seen several different versions of this story with different bad guys giving him a car.
DeleteIf anything substantive were found on Hunter it would have been presented at the hearings, but they have come up empty handed. The rest of this is disinformation attempting to smear Joe Biden.
At some point you're going to have to extrapolate all the data and you may not be so pleasantly surprised.
DeleteMore Democrats I'm talking to seem to be supporting RFK these days. Because of the unemployment data and lack of approval for the war.
DeleteIn your dreams...
DeleteI'm having second thoughts about Biden myself. After reading some of the things written on this blog he's starting to make less sense.
DeleteHere is what Biden's lawyer said this morning:
Delete"“But you asked me whether or not that has been part of the investigation,” he said. “And after five years and what we know happened in the grand jury, of course, that had to be part of what the prosecutor has already looked at, as well as every other false allegation made by the right-wing media and others, whether it’s corruption, or FARA or money laundering.
“That was part of what this prosecutor’s office had to have been looking over for five years,” he added.
He reiterated that the five-year investigation only resulted in two misdemeanor charges, noting that the prosecutors likely looked into more allegations."
When an investigation turns up no dirt, you have to believe the guy is innocent. There have been too many of these fake right-wing investigations of Democrats to believe that this one is any more true than the others, which all wasted a lot of time and money and turned up no corruption or wrongdoing.
If you are unwilling to accept the findings of such investigations, including the recent congressional hearings, then you were never going to vote for Biden anyway.
I believe his monthly payments were $73,000 for a no-show job in the very country that his father were was asked by the American people to work in. So a full scale investigation is warranted and then we can all be the judge. The rule of law is the most important value. Lose that and it's anarchy.
DeleteBobalinski said underoath that they were peddling the Biden family name. It suggests millions were paid by rogue elements for access. Let's investigate this fully and scrutinize every dollar that was deposited into these shell companies that Biden set up. At this point it feels like there is plausible deniability.
DeleteThis is supposedly a guy’s word. If there were evidence, they would have presented it. Where is it?
DeleteIf Hunter had a job in the USA, he would be working in the very country where his father is president.
DeleteAs VP, Biden went to many countries. Where could Hunter work where his father would not have govt business during 8 years as VP? Antarctica perhaps?
Your threshold for suspicion is low because you dislike Biden. So don’t vote for him.
At this point we can complain about the lack of evidence or just employ plausible deniability across the board. But trolls are trying to introduce suspicion that the Biden family is corrupt based on unsubstantiated rumors that the
Deletefamily received hundreds of thousands of dollars for pay to play, and maybe some black male and embezzlement on behalf of the former vice president. It'll have to all be investigated.
It has been investigated and no wrongdoing was found.
DeleteAre you drunk?
DeleteI get the feeling that President Biden is lying about it. That he's more involved than he's saying.
DeleteIt's common for communist Chinese leaders to provide luxury sports cars to family members of American politicians.
DeleteOne version I read said the car money was supplied by Kazakhstan. You need to get your stories straight.
DeleteYes, Kazakhstan. It was Kazakhstan that provided the dauphin with a multi thousand dollar luxury vehicle.
DeleteAt 4:38…. feeeeelllings …. Whoa whoa whoa….
DeleteI heard Hunter bought the car but someone else paid for it. Why din’t you have your facts clear on these stories? Because they’re made up.
DeleteOkay wait, true. Latvia put the money into the account and the sports car was bought out of the account, therefore there's a degree of separation and deniability. Hunter purchased the vehicle with his own funds. Everything is on the up and up. The point is is the President Biden had no idea whatsoever any of this was going on.
DeleteHunter was in no way associated with the government. He wasn't running for government. He wasn't a part of government. What he does with Baltic autocrats is his business and his business alone.
DeleteLatvia is a different country than Kazackstan. Why should the president care when his adult son buys a car? This is nothing but disinformation.
DeletePeople are making a mountain out of a molehill trying to make the millions that Hunter Biden distributed to himself and other members of his family into some sort of scandal as if President Joe Biden was orchestrating and taking part in these secret, lavish transactions that just happened to be taking place in the same countries where he had been dispatched dozens of times for diplomacy. This is just Russian propaganda. Bobielinski is a known liar.
DeleteRight wingers are always trying to push the line that when the FBI raided Biden's house and found his classified documents, that they had to do with Ukraine and the shady business that he was doing there, and therefore the FBI has leverage over Biden, a way to blackmail him. Which would be these classified documents that Biden was illegally housing in his one of his many estates that he's purchased with his small bureaucratic salary. So if anyone ever says that to you online just understand it's total propaganda. From Russia or the Maldives
DeleteThe contents of the laptop may have superseded the classified documents about Ukraine that Biden stole but time will tell.
DeleteThe ongoing investigations into Biden influence pedaling and bribery may eventually shed some light on who knew what when and how the scheme openly operated for so long.
DeleteI like when they put the Republicans, who have the dirt on Joe Biden, under oath in a court of law, because I'm fascinated with how amnesia works.
DeleteThis "other side has been brainwashed" cliché removes responsibility from the other side, as if they are some kind of victim. No.
ReplyDeleteIt started with Joe McCarthy and remains so in 2023.
David Brooks would like it to be known we are all to blame for Trump being President.
ReplyDeleteExcept for the people who voted for Trump. They are clean in Brooks' eyes.