SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 2023
Ways to lose next year's election: Yesterday, we said we'd show you something that was said on that day's Morning Joe.
In our view, the remarks in question demonstrate something about the cluelessness of our blue tribe's high-end thought leaders. As of now, we'll plan to post those remarks next week.
For today, we'll show you a different set of blue tribe remarks.
Full disclosure! We learned about these puzzling remarks by watching Fox & Friends! We refer to Rep. Ayanna Pressley's peculiar remarks in an interview on CNN.
Rep. Pressley (D-Mass.) spoke with Jake Tapper this past Wednesday. Midway through the interview, a lengthy exchange started like this:
TAPPER (9/27/23): So Republicans' biggest criticism of the bipartisan Senate spending bill, this compromise that's being worked over on the other side of Capitol Hill, is that it does not contain additional funding for border security. Right now, the U.S. is facing a crisis at the border and this historic wave of Venezuelans migrants crossing into the U.S.
The U.S. cannot deport most of them, or any of them, because of the frosty diplomatic relations with Venezuela. More than 7.7 million people have fled, Venezuela. There's no sign this is slowing down.
Do you agree that something needs to be done about our border, that it's just not sustainable?
I mean, we see, you know, these governors—and I'm sure you disapprove the tactic. But they're sending migrants into places like Massachusetts, like New York, like California, and these cities are having trouble keeping up. The Republican governors say things like, "We're just giving you a taste of what we have to deal with."
So queried CNN's Tapper. He wanted to know if "something needs to be done about our border"—if the current state of affairs "is just not sustainable."
That was a perfectly sensible question. Perhaps understandably, Tapper seemed to be puzzled by one part of Pressley's reply:
PRESSLEY (continuing directly): Well, I certainly disagree with any people, and certainly our most vulnerable, who are fleeing a great destabilization and violence and corruption, from being used as political pawns. No doubt about it, our border is secure. And we are in the midst of a humanitarian crisis, and we have to fix a broken system and we ought to—
At that point, Tapper interrupted. Watching the CNN videotape, we get the impression that he thought he may have misunderstood, or perhaps had misheard, what Pressley had said.
What did Tapper think he may have misheard? He now asked Pressley this:
TAPPER (continuing directly): You think it is secure? You think the border is secure? Or it is not secure?
Had she said that the border is secure? Explicitly, Tapper asked. Pressley's non-answer went like this:
PRESSLEY (continuing directly): I believe that we are in the midst of a humanitarian crisis and that there needs to be federal investment to support those migrant families, and I work with a number of the community-based organizations on the ground, and they need more support, they need more federal support.
This is a humanitarian crisis, and it's the consequence of a number of long-standing broken policies that, you know, are very consequential for asylum seekers, TPS holders and DACA recipients writ large. But that is a conversation for another day.
As you can see, Rep. Pressley hadn't answered Tapper's question. So Tapper asked his question again, producing this exchange:
TAPPER (continuing directly): I don't disagree with this being a humanitarian crisis at all. But just to get some clarity on this—and sure, it's a conversation for another day. But do you think that the border is secure? I just—is that what you said?
PRESSLEY: Yes. The border is secure. And we're in the midst of a humanitarian crisis that has been created by a broken system. In the meantime, we need federal investment to support my constituents and those who call the MA-7 home writ large, which is why we need to prevent a government shutdown.
I want to center the humanity, the dignity, the safety and the needs of everyone, which is why we should not have a government shutdown. It will be deeply consequential. It will create a dire situation for families, many that are already struggling.
"Yes. The border is secure," Rep. Pressley now said. She had made her position clear, but Tapper still seemed to be puzzled:
TAPPER (continuing directly): But if you have millions of undocumented migrants coming into the country, how is the border secure?
PRESSLEY: Jake, this is not a new crisis. It does require more political will and commitment. It is a humanitarian crisis. We should treat it as such.
And, again, representing one of the most diverse constituencies in the country, and in fact, I chair the House Haiti Caucus. I represent the third largest Haitian diaspora in the country, and what I see on the ground is community-based organizations and municipalities who need federal support.
Once again, a non-answer. As the interview continued, Tapper kept asking Pressley to explain the basis on which she says that the southern border actually is secure.
Tapper kept asking his question; Pressley kept failing to give a clear answer. As you can see from the CNN transcript or from the tape, the lengthy exchange ended like this:
TAPPER: Okay. It sounds like in there you acknowledge that there are millions of people crossing the border illegally, which would mean that the border is not secure. But I mean, I don't disagree with any of the points that you made about these people are trying to seek better lives and they're escaping all sort of horrible things. But would you grant me the point that the border is not secure?
PRESSLEY: Jake, that is a conversation for another day. Right now, I'm squarely focused on preventing a government shutdown and (AUDIO GAP).
TAPPER: All right. Democratic Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, thanks so much.
As Homer reports at the end of The Iliad, "Such was the burial of Hector, breaker of horses."
We return to our earlier full disclosure:
We learned about this interview when we saw it excerpted on the gruesome "cable news" TV show, Fox & Friends. As we've noted in the past, Fox & Friends tends to be a braindead propaganda mill. But in the larger sweep of things, we'll suggest you consider this:
Fox viewers were shown what Pressley said. On our own blue tribe channel, the southern border barely exists.
For the most part, only two things exist on our (corporate, profit-seeking) blue tribe channel: Donald J. Trump and jail. Problematic topics like the border are made to disappear, even as they're aggressively stressed on Fox.
Our tribe keeps pretending that it doesn't exist! In our view, this seems like a good way to lose next year's election.
We close with an anthropological question:
Are we blue folk really as sharp as we typically say we are?
Presley answered Tapper's question multiple times. She didn't give the answer he expected or wanted, but gave a different answer. She kept repeating that we are in a humanitarian crisis due to conditions in Venezuela. That does mean that the border is not secure -- it means we must help people who are in distress. She said that over and over and enumerated the ways we provide help. Tapper refused to understand, as Somerby refuses to understand.
ReplyDeleteThere is a provision in our law for helping those seeking asylum due to a humanitarian crisis. The law uses those words -- humanitarian crisis -- the words Presley repeated to Tapper.
It is not her fault if Tapper is either stupid or deliberately obtuse, as Somerby often appears to be.
This is the famous right wing empathy at work. The right doesn't care about human suffering. They care about what is theirs and keeping other people from threatening their stuff.
ReplyDeleteCue Somerby to shed his fake tears over immigrant children drowning while seeking asylum in Europe. He has never mentioned the cruel barrier across the Rio Grande River to deliberately drown asylum seekers. And today, he crows that you won't hear about the interview with Presley anywhere but Fox (a lie) and he mimics Tapper's insistence that only a closed border matters, despite Presley's patient attempt to tell him about the "humanitarian crisis" in Venezuela that is creating asylum seekers due to the disruption there.
ReplyDeleteSure, this is a humanitarian tragedy with all these people, and whole families, trudging 100's of miles thru jungles and deserts to get to the U.S. That this is an overrideiding humanitarian issue that trumps mere laws about immigration is a position one can take. But what did Pressly mean when she said that the border was "secure?" Seems if tens of thousands are streaming across the border as is happening, the border isn't "secure." That was TDH and Tapper's puzzlement. Is it legitimate to say the the border is "secure" in this context?
DeleteA couple of other comments. Huge numbers of people are fleeing Venezuela, an apparent failed stated ruled by Madura who is largely responsible for wrecking the once prosperous country. However, the US imposes severe financial sanctions on Venezuela, which is a substantial contributor to the country's financial mess. Madura and his allies aren't hurt by these sanctions. The sanctions don't do any good; they only punish the people of the country. The sanctions are a significant contributor to why so many are fleeing the country. they have a cruel effect. Yet the Biden government keeps them going.The policy hurts Venezuela citizens and the U.S.
DeleteAn observation about Pressley - I was listening to the radio in the car - the public radio station in Boston, and she was being interviewed. She explained in the interview that her practice was not to refer to Trump as "President" - her choice was to refer to him as "the person occupying the white House." Some here possibly might applaud her for that, though for me it seemed she was a fanatical zealot. Unpleasant as it may be, he was the president.
Venezuela is a state where national (oil) wealth is redistributed, actually redistributed, to the underclass.
DeleteA form of reparations, if you wish, for decades of neglect and atrocious exploitation. Also, elements of the underclass had become authority figures.
If you consider this a characteristic of "failed state", then you probably need to reassess your politics.
anon 2;21, I was criticizing the us, which has made Venezuela a pariah., contributing to mess there, where god knows how many are fleeing the country and entering the US claiming asylum. Everyone here defends Biden (who I'll most surely vote for if he is running) but why all the sanctions then in spite of your praise of their generous treatment of the poor?
DeleteWe, as a nation, have asylum as part of our immigration policy. That is because we are part of a world in which people experience crises beyond their control, and since our founding, we have been a nation that not only recognizes that we are all immigrants (except the native Americans), but that we welcome immigrants to our shores. It used to be, for several centuries, that there was no border control at all, that everyone just came and went as they pleased. It was recognized that (1) America needed labor, (2) immigrants broughts skills and the ability to work, which enhanced our strength as a nation, (3) immigrants were willing to do the dangerous and difficult jobs of building our railways, working in our mines, working in factories, working as servants in our homes, and helping advance our nation's economy. The Irish and the Chinese together built our transcontinental and local railways. Welsh miners were the first coal miners.
DeleteIt was only in the early 20th century, with the rise of pseudo-scientific ideas about heritability of undesirable traits (such as alcoholism and promiscuity) that right-wing restrictions on immigration began to be instituted, including quotas, IQ testing upon entry, and heath screening. The idea that immigrants were inferior, dirty, lazy, stupid, disease-ridden, came from the campaigns of that time period and still are a tool among demagogues to instill fear of others in Republicans for the purpose of electing certain politicians. We all saw where that led in Nazi Germany. That lesson should have been enough to tell current generations not to follow that path, but white supremacy dies hard. AC/MA, this is why our children need to be taught the history of our country, including the strengths and valued contributions of immigrants, both slaves and those who came for other reason, including the indentured servants and those deported as undesirable by nations of Europe.
Fear is the mindkiller (as Herbert said in Dune).
You can close the border in a black-and-white movie where there is only one road or train leading through the mountains to get to Switzerland. Otherwise, it is stupid to call for something unachievable, in the kind of tantrum the right throws about people coming here.
DeleteMany of the wealthier countries in the world also have an aging population. Given that younger workers pay into the pensions of retired elderly people, there need to be more of the young in order to spread the burden of supporting the elderly across a larger population. That's why it is good that we have younger immigrants with children coming here. They are the workers who will contribute to social security and to our workforce to keep the USA a thriving economy. Without immigrants we will be like Japan, where the costs of supporting a large elderly retired population are a burden on a smaller number of younger people. That is why they are declining as an economy and they are trying to invent robots to care for their aged.
When Tapper presents our border crises as a problem because people are being allowed to enter (including those legally entering as asylum seekers), he has no idea what he is talking about.
For AC/MA, who asked about it:
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_during_the_Venezuelan_crisis#:~:text=The%20sanctions%20were%20in%20response,the%202018%20Venezuelan%20presidential%20election.
The sanctions occurred during Trump's term but the crisis preceded the sanctions and is attributed to Maduro mismanagement.
It is unclear why you are blaming Biden for anything, given that he has only inherited the problem.
This union doesn’t pull any punches.
ReplyDeletehttps://x.com/bpunion/status/1703786638885994509?s=42&t=oYvKLjVc8YzJIvwKoQTYBQ
Two truths:
ReplyDeleteThere is a humanitarian crisis.
The border is not secure.
Those who enter illegally are sent back. That is as secure as it gets given the length of our border and the need to permit legitimate travel. We are not a police state.
DeleteThe Republicans are inflating fear to create a political issue.
12:42 makes an important point. How many who enter are stopped and turned back? That puts a different spin on things.
DeleteWe must carefully distinguish true accusations from false accusations.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.eschatonblog.com/2023/09/backlash.html?m=1
There is a humanitarian crisis, because the border is not secure.
ReplyDeleteNo, immigrants do not present a humanitarian crisis. They help our economy.
DeleteTake it up with Mrs Pressley.
DeleteThe crisis is in Venezuela and it is what drives them here seeking asylum. We as a nation provide asylum. The immigrants do not cause a humanitarian crisis for us.
DeleteHad the border been secure, the professional-managerial classes of Venezuela, running from the Bolivarian revolution, would've quietly migrated next door, to Columbia, as they did before the current US regime.
DeleteAnd voila: no humanitarian crisis anywhere.
The Colombian border reopened to Venezuelans on January 1, 2023.
DeleteSomerby’s point: Millions are crossing the southern border illegally. The Others are alarmed and demand solutions. We don’t offer any because the problem is not even on our radar. It’s not likely we’ll be able to persuade any of the Others to vote for Biden.
ReplyDeleteActually the figure is a little over 1/2 million, half coming by flying in on tourist visas then not leaving, not crossing the border. And don’t forget we have a northern border too.
DeleteGeorge, Somerby doesn’t assert that millions are crossing illegally. That is Tapper’s assertion, that Somerby doesn’t bother to fact check.
DeleteAlso, George, Somerby says that the border is barely mentioned on our “blue tribe channel”, not that it isn’t “on our radar”. It’s constantly mentioned in the press, for example the New York Times and Washington post. And here he quoted it being discussed on CNN, not usually considered a red channel.
DeleteEvery airport accepting international flights is a border. So is every port. This idea of controlling the border is a Republican fiction. The question is how to handle immigration, not closing any border.
DeleteFY 2022 - 2.76M undocumented immigrants crossed southern border. Custom and Border Patrol
DeleteBut this is mostly beside the point. While I’m sure you can find discussions here and there, the point is it’s important to Them and We do not, as a practical matter, offer them persuasive solutions.
DeleteGeorge,
DeleteWhatever solution we propose, it can't cost money. House Republicans are already telling us the USA is a deadbeat nation, who can't afford to pay its bills.
I have posted this multiple times already. Let's see what the Others plan is. Here's one from the great white hope in Florida.
DeleteFlorida Republicans Admit They Made a Big Mistake With Anti-Immigrant Law
Republicans are trying to convince immigrants that the law was just to “scare” people, nothing more.
...
On Monday, Representatives Alina Garcia, Rick Roth, and Juan Fernandez Barquin appeared at an event sponsored by Hialeah Mayor Esteban Bovo, also a Republican. The trio, all of whom voted to pass the anti-immigrant bill, clumsily attempted to appeal to the thousands of people their party has alienated.
“This bill is 100 percent supposed to scare you,” said Roth. “I’m a farmer, and the farmers are mad as hell. We are losing employees. They’re already starting to move to Georgia and other states. It’s urgent that you talk to all your people and convince them that you have resources, state representatives, and other people that can explain the bill to you,” he added, essentially begging Florida’s labor force to not leave the state that cares little for them.
“This is more of a political bill than it is policy. It does give more police state powers going forward to deal with immigration, but still this is mainly a political bill,” Roth concluded incoherently. It’s just politics and messaging, but also it ramps up the police state, but also it’s just all politics. OK.
****************
Pure politics. We didn't really mean it. LOL
Democrats are actually trying to solve the problem but republicans will block them every time.
Dogface, that 2.7 million figure is for all migrants (of all types) having an encounter (of any kind) with customs, not people crossing the border and not just illegals. You have to read the small print.
DeleteAs far as I can tell, the number of Border Patrol encounters was about 2.2M in fiscal 2022. Who knows how many came through undetected?
DeleteI did not mean to “slime” mh, whom I respect. (I respect anyone who uses a nym, and I respect mh in particular, even if I don’t always agree with him.) And he (and you) were right about MSNBC stories - there are many more than I realized.
Unfortunately, the liberal media has such control of the message that any statement, whether true or false, can become the normal belief. If the media wanted the public to be aware that the border isn't secure, the news shows could show lots of videos of crowds of illegal immigrants. Instead, the media chooses not to show such videos, even, though videos like that would be dramatic and newsworthy. Democrats from President Biden on down can continue to say the border is secure and a majority of the country will believe them.
ReplyDeleteAs evidence of the media's power and their commitment to the Democrats, consider that they call January 6 an "insurrection". Jan. 6 was dreadful, violent behavior by a crowd of people. Yet, a moment of thought would show that a violent mob of unarmed people could not have possibly installed a new government. Yet, many Americans are somehow convinced that this was the case.
David, David, David. They were trying to stop the transfer of power to Biden so Trump could stay in office. They didn't need to install a new government, with their preferred candidate already there.
DeleteYes, it was an insurrection.
David can tell whether someone is here legally by looking? In a video?
Deleteet tu, Caesar?
DeleteWould the whole country and the military really have accepted the mob and simply allowed Trump to remain as President? I surely wouldn't, even though I voted for Trump/
So, by David’s logic, it wasn’t an attempted insurrection because not everyone would have been ok with it.
Delete"I surely wouldn't..."
DeleteSure you would have, Skippy.
David,
DeleteYou can still blame the Democrats for January 6th. They are the ones who wanted to count the votes of black people in the 2020 Presidential Election. Such divisiveness.
mh and Caesar - Where's the evidence?
DeleteDid any rioter say s/he expected to force Trump to remain President in perpetuity? Or, did they say they were trying to delay the decision, so that Trump would have a chance to show that the election had been stolen?
The exact quote was "Jews will not replace us."
DeleteNo, David, you are wrong. The object was for Orange Man to steal the election any way he could. There was a multi-pronged attack. By the time we reached Jan 6, the object was simply to stop VP Pence from counting the ballots and throw the election to the House. This would result in a Republican victory because each state only gets one vote. The beauty here is this would have had the fig leaf of being in the Constitution. Ask Peter Navarro.
DeleteDavid, suppose a guy submits a fraudulent insurance claim, but he doesn't say, "I didn't really suffer a loss. This claim is bogus." Then he didn't commit insurance fraud, right?
DeleteJesus Dav in Cal, the coup attempt did not work as Mike Pence would not follow the Eastman memo, and he refused to let himself get hung, and the military stood down. So it was just a mob of angry tourists? Since you still follow and support Trump I know you have heard about mass deep state firings, oaths to Trump and not the Constitution, and using the state to punish political opponents. I used to think you are a simple racist, but now I know you are a fascist and a racist.
DeleteDavid is a Republican voter, so the only things he really cares about are bigotry and white supremacy. Everything else is negotiable.
DeleteDavid listens to conservative media.
Delete@3:28 illustrates my argument. When Trump tried to hold up the election by asking Pence to certify, we knew Trump did this. It was ridiculous behavior by Trump IMO, but it wasn't a secret.
DeleteOTOH Trump did not ask his followers to enter the capital building and interfere with the certification. On the contrary, he asked them to demonstrate peacefully. Add this to the fact that never in recorded history has an unarmed insurrection been successful or even been tried. Then there's the fact that nobody claimed to be trying to win the election via the Jan. 6 riot. Yet, many intelligent people are staunch in their belief that it was an insurrection, rather than a riot.
IMO this illustrates the media's power to set the narrative, regardless of the facts. That's why Biden will probably be re-elected, while falsely asserting that there's no crisis at the border. Biden will also falsely assert that there was no wrongdoing in the tens of millions of dollars that his relatives received from foreign interests. The media will back him up. The Biden family's obvious wrongdoing will not be a factor in the election.
David, you do not know that Trump did not ask his followers to enter the capitol building and interfere with the certification. Trump's full involvement in what happened will be described by the evidence presented at his trial. There was quite a bit of evidence presented by the 1/6 Committee hearing that contradicts your assertions that Trump did not do various things leading to insurrection.
DeleteI do not believe the media is setting the narrative. They are reporting the results of investigations, sworn statements in hearings and the Committee report, plus evidence listed in the indictment on the 1/6 charges.
In the case of Biden, it is up to his accusers to present the evidence, not Biden. Biden is presumed innocent in the absence of credible evidence. The attacks on him remain politically motivated accusations, many debunked, some proven to be fabrications (as AOC showed at the latest hearing). There is no evidence supporting the claims the right has been making about Biden. Referring to his "family" as if Hunter Biden's actions were also Joe Biden's or Jill Biden's or Jim Biden's or Nicole Biden's or Commander Biden's, is ridiculous and propagandistic. Note Cecelia's fatuous reference to Vito and Sonny Corleone (in the Godfather), as if the Bidens were mafia. That is just plain disinformation.
Of course the media is "backing up" Joe Biden. There is no credible evidence that he has done anything wrong. Are you aware, David, that Hunter Biden has filed lawsuits for defamation and invasion of privacy against those manipulating his supposed laptop? Calling this "obvious wrongdoing" in the absence of evidence makes you sound incredibly foolish.
Note that even the Impreach Inquiry witnesses (brought by the Republicans) agreed that there was no evidence against Biden and there need to be evidence to bring impeachment charges to a House vote on holding an inquiry hearing. That's why there was no vote. No evidence. Now Republicans are blaming Comer, but it is hard to blame him when there is nothing to find.
"Biden will also falsely assert..." stated with the authority of one who has no idea of what Biden will say. Since when did DIC come to be the least bit concerned about the false accusations of a politician? That's rich. Perhaps when he became concerned about grifting family members. That would be some time after Jared bagged his 2 billion dollars. Being an actuary and good with numbers, perhaps DIC can venture how many orders of magnitude the Trump/Kushner clan's take was over Hunter Biden's and relatives. And I am excluding the current president insofar as the clown show last week was compelling for what the star witnesses refused to say, namely that he had anything to do with it. But let me make a prediction: DIC will falsely assert otherwise.
Delete“you have millions of undocumented migrants coming into the country”
ReplyDeleteA media critic might ask if Tapper’s numbers were correct.
Oh look. Immigration mentioned on MSNBC:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.msnbc.com/immigration
I looked. It’s worse than I thought. It’s hard to figure when the stories were filed, but the lead one seems to be from 2018.
DeleteThe 2018 story was presented at the top because the current story right below it referred to that original 2018 story. The headline on it was:
Delete"Trump officials ordered to account for family separations in court" and it is dated Sept. 27, 2023.
This makes your comment to mh either incredible ignorant and stupid, or majorly dishonest. Just as your comment above about the number of illegals crossing the border showed a complete inability to read and/or dishonesty in use of statistics.
If there were any doubt about whether you are a troll or a good faith commenter, this dishonest use of stats in two separate comments today shows you to be too stupid for discussion here.
I think you’re right about that. Thanks for your kindness in pointing it out.
DeleteOne mistake might be error but two similar mistakes are a pattern of deceit. You think you deserve kindness for trying to fool people by misrepresenting statistics?
DeleteIf this really was a coincidence, then learn to check your facts before commenting. You don't have to be in such a hurry to slime mh, who is much more careful about what he says than you apparently are.
I assume you’re the anon who said the number of undocumenteds crossing the southern border was 500K in FY2022. Could you give a checkable cite for that number? Because it seems wrong to me.
Deletehttps://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics
DeleteCBP is Customs and Border Patrol, which I cited when I first commented with the number.
Look at the chart that is titled Total CBP Enforcement Actions. Office of Field Operations Total Encounters for FY 2022 are 551,930, which is a little more than half a million, which is exactly what I said. Note that I did not say 500K. I said: "Actually the figure is a little over 1/2 million." This is not the figure for people walking across the Southern border, but for ALL field enforcement actions by the CBP.
That’s just the OFO. Border Patrol is 2.2M. Total 2.7M.
DeleteOffice of Field Operations is responsible for those crossing the border illegally. You don't want to be listing every time someone's passport is stamped entering on a legal visa as a tourist. Or every time someone filed an application for entry at an office.
DeleteAs I stated previously, that 2.7 figure is ALL contacts of every type with customs and border patrol. It is not the right figure for illegal border crossings. Using this figure is misleading -- whether you did it or someone you read did it.
You can't just grab numbers. You have to read and understand the descriptions of what the numbers are a measure of.
You’ve convinced me. Now I think you are right; I am wrong. And you told me I had to scrutinize the fine print closely.
DeleteI presume you’ll agree that these numbers only count encounters, and not those who successfully cross the border illegally.
OFO works ports of entry. Border Patrol works everywhere that's not a port of entry. Tourist stamps have nothing to do with either. The reported numbers are for enforcement encounters.
DeleteNow Quaker is persuading me back to the 2.76M number for FY2022. OFO (0.5M) is “customs” at port of entry. Border patrol (2.2M) patrols everything else. (And, of course, these numbers do not include those who evaded capture.)
DeleteAnon - do you agree?
Those numbers are reported as encounters, many of which get sent back out of country. It seems a bit disingenuous to report problems at the border by using the number of people that the border patrol actually apprehends.
DeleteNo, you were claiming 2.7 million as the number of illegals crossing the Southern border. That is not correct.
DeleteSo, I’m FY2022, as best I can tell:
Delete- 2.7M were “encountered” by CBP agents for border crossings, and, in addition,
- Some unknown number successfully crossed without apprehension.
And Anon’s number of 500K is just those “encountered” by customs agents at a port of entry. It leaves off the 2.2M “encountered” between ports of entry by border patrol agents AND the unknown number who evaded apprehension.
I think it is clear that neither of us knows for sure what an encounter is, what a field operation officer does, where such officers work, and thus what the numbers in that report actually mean. But 2.7 million cannot be the total encounters while also being the number of illegals crossing the Southern border. The people crossing the Southern border illegally are a subset of the total encounters. That 2.7 number is way too high and was most likely grabbed for disinformation purposes because it was the biggest number available. The numbers of people listed as apprehended in CBP reports are inconsistent with that 2.7 million number.
DeleteIt is not kosher to argue that because some unknown number of people cross without apprehension, then any big number you want must be correct. It means the number is undetermined (unknown) and difficult to even estimate. In addition, such numbers fluctuate with the pressures causing people to leave their home countries. Many migrants are going to other countries besides the US. As I noted from the CBP report cited, the influx from Venezuela is way down this year and enforcement efforts are working to reduce illegal entries. This is due to Biden's efforts and is way down compared to Trump's term.
Is this your way of admitting that your 551K number is wrong?
DeleteI think you’re right about nat’l v southwest. In FY 2022, 2.2M encounters across the SW border, an unknown number crossed without encounter.
DeleteAnd another point: The 2.2M is not the number of “people” encountered. It’s the number of “encounters.” Many are “encountered,” turned away, try again, and are “encountered” again.
No, my 551K number came straight out the report. I am admitting I don't know the difference between Field Operations Offices and other CBP activities.
DeleteWhatever. In my view , you should simply admit when you’re wrong rather than attempt misdirection.
DeleteAll Lives Matter.
ReplyDeleteDonald Trump and the striking auto workers:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2023/09/donald-trumps-economic-populism-doesnt-exist-so-it-must-be-invented
Tapper asks whether we need to "so something" at the border. What the hell kind of question is that? "Do something" covers so much ground as to be unanswerable.
ReplyDeleteThe governor of Texas decided to "do something." In my book, his "something" is criminal. Donald Trump "did something" pointless, expensive, and ineffective .
If that's the best Tapper has to offer, he should take up a different occupation.
I like Latin Americans.
ReplyDeleteMe too. When you travel to other countries and see how people live, what their culture is like there, it is easier to imagine the immigrants who come here as good decent people having trouble in their lives, instead of as the kind of miscreants Trump labeled when he called our Mexican neighbors rapists and drug dealers. It is when people isolate themselves from those they consider undesirable (including poor Americans), that they form stereotypes that result in the fear and animosity those on the right hold toward everyone different from themselves.
DeleteThe United States Custom and Border Patrol is our largest single law enforcement agency. It has nearly 70,000 personnel of which approximately 20,000 are border patrol agents. Eighty-five percent of those agents are deployed to our southern border.
ReplyDeleteDo we have the right number of agents in the right places? Who knows? Well, it seems Jake Tapper knows. He demands that Congresswoman Pressley "do something" to end "the crisis."
What needs to be done? Unknown! You won't get answers from Tapper or Fox or, appently, here at the Daily Howler.
Are "millions of people" crossing our border illegally? How do we know how many there are? Are our border patrol agents simply standing by and greeting them with a friendly smile and wave?
If Tapper made such a sloppy inquiry about, oh, let's say student test scores, Our Host would rightly complain. If Tapper used the word "illegal" this casually in reference to the feelings of shame and guilt induced in South Carolina high school students assigned to read Ta-Nehisi Coates, we'd get a weeks-long dissection of his error.
There are, indeed, many migrants turning up out our southern border. They come from many different countries and they arrive in different ways for different reasons--and those reasons are complicated. And yes, Fox and Friends might let you know that there's a supposed "crisis," but they won't tell you who's involved, where they come from, or why they're here.
Pressley’s job is to make laws, oversee federal policy, spend public money. It’s important to know what she thinks about current events. Tapper’s job is not to set policy but to find out what’s going on.
ReplyDeleteYes, and the point several people have made is that Tapper didn't do a very good job of that.
DeleteHe found out that Pressley thinks:
Deletethe border is secure
that’s not very important
there’s a humanitarian crisis
the federal government should fix it
She didn't directly say that the border is secure. She said there is a humanitarian crisis.
Delete“Fox and Friends might let you know that there's a supposed "crisis," but they won't tell you who's involved, where they come from, or why they're here”
DeleteFox News aired the CNN clip. Were they supposed to have more luck in finding out these things than CNN? Was Tapper supposed to answer his own questions?
Are VP Harris and Rep Pressley accountable at all?
VP Harris and Rep Pressley were chosen by God to lead us.
DeleteThat explains their lack of response. They’re waiting till the stone tablets are finished.
DeleteAnon 10:16. Please look again.
DeletePRESSLEY: Yes. The border is secure.
"Pressley insists that the border's secure!"
ReplyDeleteThis is Somerby's claim, but I didn't see Pressley say that anywhere in what was quoted. Nor did I see Somerby acknowledge what Pressley did say in her many responses to Tapper's repeated question (as if that were the only thing that matters, to the point of ignoring what Pressley said).
Regardless of Tapper's questions, I would want my representatives to be beating the drum for more effective border controls. IMO that is one the biggest problems facing the US today.
DeleteWouldn't this indicate that more effective border controls have been happening steadily. Notice the shift from Venezuelan immigration to Cuban and Nicaraguan immigration. Is it possible that the Fox disinformation has not kept up with changes in what has been happening at our borders?
Delete"WASHINGTON — U.S. Customs and Border Protection released operational statistics today for December 2022, which can be viewed on the CBP Enforcement Statistics Fiscal Year 2023 page.
“The December update shows our new border enforcement measures are working. Even as overall encounters rose because of smugglers spreading misinformation around the court-ordered lifting of the Title 42 public health order, we continued to see a sharp decline in the number of Venezuelans unlawfully crossing our southwest border, down 82% from September 2022,” said CBP Acting Commissioner Troy Miller. “Early data suggests the expanded measures for Cubans, Haitians, and Nicaraguans are having a similar impact, and we look forward to sharing the additional data in the next update.
“Importantly, we are continuing to see a shifting migration pattern, with individuals from Mexico and northern Central America accounting for just 24% of unique encounters in December, a significant drop from the 42% they represented a year ago, as more migrants arrived from countries like Cuba and Nicaragua. This new migration challenge is not unique to the United States. There are 2.5 million Venezuelans now living in Colombia and 1.5 million in Peru; Brazil and Chile are hosting more than 350,000 Haitians, and the number of displaced Nicaraguans in Costa Rica has more than doubled in the last 12 months alone.
“December’s operational update also illustrate the dedication of the CBP workforce in seizing fentanyl and other contraband, and ensuring America’s economic security by facilitating travel and trade.”
And then there was this:
"Release Date Fri, 09/22/2023
WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection released operational statistics today for August 2023. CBP remains vigilant and expects to see fluctuations in migration, knowing that smugglers continue to mislead and exploit vulnerable individuals. Encounters along the Southwest border remain lower than levels seen in November and December 2022, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Public Health Order pursuant to Title 42 was in effect."
David, doesn't this sound like progress? Why then should Republicans be pretending that the immigration problem is getting worse? The numbers just don't support that.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-december-2022-monthly-operational-update
Deletehttps://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-august-2023-monthly-update
Anon 7:52: Take another look. She said it very plainly.
DeletePRESSLEY: Yes. The border is secure.
Then why did Tapper keep browbeating her over it?
DeleteI watched the House Impeachment Inquiry hearing on C-Span and noticed that neither Marjorie Taylor Greene nor Lauren Boebert were present during the proceedings. Whenever there was a recorded vote, neither was present when the roll was called, they had to be called back to the chamber and then have their vote recorded after others were finished voting. In contrast AOC was not only present but participated by asking questions. Why is it that these extremist Republicans think they don't have to listen to their own witnesses or pay attention to what Democrats say during hearings? There is an issue of courtesy but a bigger issue of competence.
ReplyDeleteIf Somerby were seriously concerned about the gulf between right and left, and the damaged done to understanding by the reporting on Fox News, he might talk about incidents like these in New Mexico:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.rawstory.com/evil-smile-trump-supporter/
It doesn't surprise me that Republicans who feel they can solve political problems with violence might also think the border can be "closed" using force, as Trump has wanted to do all along. Republicans are still talking about using drones against Mexico. That this force is being used against our own citizens is the result of encouragement and tolerance of violence by the right, including both elected officials and Fox News.
I don't recall Somerby EVER speaking out against this, not even during 1/6.
This video compilation on Youtube speaks exactly to this point.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/Cq_Azya7_c8
Even native Americans, the people formerly misidentified as Indians, are the descendants of immigrants. People began in Africa and then spread out to the other continents, including north and south America.
ReplyDeleteDavid, why do you carry on like this? You are an unworthy cousin of Lizzie.
ReplyDeleteTrump gave a bonkers speech in CA but Somerby is focused on a border humanitarian crisis that has gotten better during Biden's term? Somerby is pretending, along with Jake Tapper, that Biden invented sanctions that were imposed on Venezuela during Trump's term in office. Somerby says it is wrong that the press isn't talking about immigration 24/7, because the Republicans have manufactued public concern around false facts. But Somerby totally ignores Trump's bonkers speech, instead claiming that Biden is too old to run.
ReplyDeleteThe govt shutdown was averted because Dems agreed to vote with Republicans on a stop-gap 45-day extension of the deadline. Not a word from Somerby about the imminent shutdown. In Somerby's life, the main event is that Commander bit another secret service agent.
Terminate Commander.
DeleteComer thinks it is evidence that Hunter Biden had formed 11 LLCs (shell companies). Meanwhile the Trump organization has over 500 of them.
ReplyDeleteThe US has a border that is 19,937 miles long. The southern border is 1,933 miles long. Unless you station a border patrol agent every 20 feet, or erect the Great Wall of China around it, you cannot stop people from trying to get in. (Also, the Great Wall of China did not stop people from getting in.) Bombing Mexico, an idea floated by Trump? Some Republicans would be happy if the border patrol simply shot every undocumented person on sight. (How would you identify such people?) Putting these aside as fringe and non-humanitarian things to do, it isn’t clear (to address Tapper’s question) how you reduce the number of people trying to enter the country, or how these attempts make the border insecure. Dealing humanely with conditions in other countries that are sources of migration is a reasonable idea.
ReplyDeleteImmigration is an issue, not just here, but also in Europe. It may partly be driving right wing parties in Germany and Italy, among others.
I know it seems trite, but the Statue of Liberty does say “give me your tired, your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.” These words are made hollow by Trump with his “shithole countries” remark, and the approval that gets amongst republicans.
Maybe Presley should have said that, but then, Democrats have been saying this kind of thing for a long time.
When I was young I watched the movie Moscow on the Hudson in which Robin Williams plays a Russian defector. I remember wondering why some people must sneak into the country while others are welcomed just by saying “I defect.” For example, Melania worked illegally while on a tourist visa then was helped to stay after it expired. But others must swim a river blocked by obstacles and then be chased by guards and vigilantes. Obviously, our nation designates shithole people not just shithole countries. The unfairness of this has always bothered me.
DeleteRepublican government:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/a-quick-weekend-primer-on-podiumgate/
Digby has an article about the greatly increased efforts of Biden's FTC to address big monopolies over the past month:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2023/10/01/biden-ftc-takes-on-the-bigs/
Some people commenting here are very concerned about corporate control and might find these recent efforts a step in the right direction.
Let the Latin Americans in. Deport David to Russia.
ReplyDeleteKevin Drum:
ReplyDeletehttps://jabberwocking.com/whats-the-real-rate-of-illegal-immigration/
Picture this: a fanny.
ReplyDeleteYes a big fanny has engulfed my imagination...
Delete