FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2023
Norman O. Brown had a secret: We're so old that we can remember the federal "fairness doctrine!"
The leading authority on the doctrine recalls its operation, and its demise, in the manner shown:
The fairness doctrine of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, was a policy that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that fairly reflected differing viewpoints. In 1987, the FCC abolished the fairness doctrine, prompting some to urge its reintroduction through either Commission policy or congressional legislation. However, later the FCC removed the rule that implemented the policy from the Federal Register in August 2011.
The fairness doctrine had two basic elements: It required broadcasters to devote some of their airtime to discussing controversial matters of public interest, and to air contrasting views regarding those matters...The demise of this FCC rule has been cited as a contributing factor in the rising level of party polarization in the United States.
Those were the days! If you held a broadcast license, you were required to present "differing viewpoints" concerning "controversial issues!"
As a matter of federal law, this requirement came to an end in 1987. By then, we were already well along in the Point Counterpoint / Crossfire era.
According to the informal arrangements of that era, broadcasters would routinely present "both sides" of some topical issue. As soon as the viewer heard the programmed recitation of the Democratic Party's viewpoint, that viewer would hear the programmed recitation of the Republican outlook.
As late as 2009, some semblance of this format remained. Over on the Fox News Channel, Sean Hannity was still confronted by the late Alan Colmes every night, though topic selection and selection of guests tilted toward Hannity's side.
Today, factual claims and Storyline largely emerge from an array of silos.
(In fairness, Fox still allows one liberal to appear each day on The Five. If she tries to explain the firing of Viktor Shokin, the other four shout her down.)
Today, it's all about silos. So it went last evening and this morning as red tribe viewers received their "news," and we blue tribe viewers got ours:
Early this morning, on the clownish Fox & Friends, the three friends rose from their tuffets and walked over to "the wall." This wall was something like thirty feet long and twelve feet high. It carried this stirring title:
TIMELINE OF HUNTER BIDEN'S INDICTMENT
So it went on Fox & Friends. On Morning Joe, blue tribe viewers saw excerpts of Donald J. Trump's interview with Megyn Kelly.
On Morning Joe, the absurdity of Trump's remarks was stressed. On Fox & Friends, red tribe viewers are never going to hear about such problems.
Last night, on The Last Word, the opening 19-minute segment was devoted to the absurdity of Trump's remarks to Kelly. The legal panel swapped jokes, chuckled and chortled, over the absurdity of Trump's various statements and claims.
Lawrence O'Donnell was especially entertained by this, as he has been recently. And then, for one brief shining moment, Neal Katyal could be heard saying this:
KATYAL (9/14/23): I know everyone’s saying, "Well, Trump is reckless in giving this interview."
I have a different view. I actually think that this is not an unwise strategy for him, because he doesn’t have a legal defense. He doesn’t have a factual defense. The only defense he has is to try and poison the jury pool with his cockamamie nonsense.
As far as we know, there is no easy way out of our silo culture. News by silo is a very big business. Many people are getting wealthy as its dysfunction spreads.
It's also true that red tribe viewers are sometimes exposed to serious material—material which is being withheld from us in our own blue silo. Watching Fox in recent weeks, we've seen Mayor Breed complaining about the damage done to San Francisco by certain groups of homeless activists. We've seen Mayor Adams saying that immigration policy will destroy New York City.
Last night, we saw tape of President Biden offering his latest embellishment. For the record, it was his very weak voice and his halting manner which worried us, more than the mere fact of this latest overstatement.
Red silo denizens see this sort of thing all the time; we blue silo dwellers do not. Can the president make it through the next year as a candidate? Everything is possible, but we're not real sure he can.
In the larger sense, can a major nation survive the prominence of such silos? At The Atlantic, headline included, McKay Coppin reports Mitt Romney's doubts:
WHAT MITT ROMNEY SAW IN THE SENATE
[...]
Earlier this year, [Romney] confided to me that he would not seek reelection to the Senate in 2024. He planned to make this announcement in the fall. The decision was part political, part actuarial. The men in his family had a history of sudden heart failure, and none had lived longer than his father, who died at 88. “Do I want to spend eight of the 12 years I have left sitting here and not getting anything done?” he mused. But there was something else. His time in the Senate had left Romney worried—not just about the decomposition of his own political party, but about the fate of the American project itself.
Shortly after moving into his Senate office, Romney had hung a large rectangular map on the wall. First printed in 1931 by Rand McNally, the “histomap” attempted to chart the rise and fall of the world’s most powerful civilizations through 4,000 years of human history. When Romney first acquired the map, he saw it as a curiosity. After January 6, he became obsessed with it. He showed the map to visitors, brought it up in conversations and speeches. More than once, he found himself staring at it alone in his office at night. The Egyptian empire had reigned for some 900 years before it was overtaken by the Assyrians. Then the Persians, the Romans, the Mongolians, the Turks—each civilization had its turn, and eventually collapsed in on itself. Maybe the falls were inevitable. But what struck Romney most about the map was how thoroughly it was dominated by tyrants of some kind—pharaohs, emperors, kaisers, kings. “A man gets some people around him and begins to oppress and dominate others,” he said the first time he showed me the map. “It’s a testosterone-related phenomenon, perhaps. I don’t know. But in the history of the world, that’s what happens.” America’s experiment in self-rule “is fighting against human nature.”
“This is a very fragile thing,” he told me. “Authoritarianism is like a gargoyle lurking over the cathedral, ready to pounce.”
For the first time in his life, he wasn’t sure if the cathedral would hold.
Each civilization had its turn. Eventually, each one collapsed. We thought again of the late Norman O. Brown's Phi Beta Kappa address.
On the perceived strength of this book, Norman O. Brown was very big back in the 1960s. He's never mentioned today.
Even back in 1960, he thought our civilization might be ending "in exhaustion." He thought we needed to discover some new secret, that we had to make things new:
BROWN (5/31/60): I sometimes think I see that societies originate in the discovery of some secret, some mystery; and end in exhaustion when there is no longer any secret, when the mystery has been divulged, that is to say profaned...
And so there comes a time—I believe we are in such a time—when civilization has to be renewed by the discovery of some new mysteries, by the undemocratic but sovereign power of the imagination, by the undemocratic power which makes poets the unacknowledged legislators of all mankind, the power which makes all things new.
Periodically, we've been posting this statement since at least 2009.
We can't remember why we thought it was relevant to our society's ongoing collapse as far back as that. We don't recall how we knew about this statement in the first place. We don't know why Brown's obscure formulation had stuck in our head ever since college days.
That said, it seems to us that a civilization can't survive the power of the silos. Here's the secret we think we must discover anew:
We blue tribe citizens have to learn to sit there and listen to Others.
We have to stop believing in the very existence of Others. Also, we have to find a way to persuade the Others to sit there and listen to us.
In his book, My Life, former president Bill Clinton said he admired the Pentecostals. Locked inside our own blue silo, it has become extremely hard for us to make statements like that.
More presidential advice: For whatever reason, we started recalling Brown's Phi Beta Kappa address at least as far back as 2009.
Our civilization was less crazy then. But, for whatever reason, Brown's statement bubbled back up through our head.
One year earlier, the president of Wesleyan University had cited Brown's speech in his own Phi Beta Kappa address. We don't understand his statement either, but here's part of what he said:
Norman O. Brown, a great figure in Wesleyan history, gave one of the most startling Phi Beta Kappa speeches imaginable at Columbia in 1960, where he called on the initiates to become mad, to save themselves through madness. He turned to Emerson to make his point, but it was the Emerson who told you to stop reading, the Emerson who warned you about being a bookworm. This is the Emerson of ecstasy—not Enlightenment.
I turn to another Emerson, the Emerson of the essay Experience, and I will read you a quote, and then we'll almost be done.
Emerson said, "We animate what we can and we see only what we animate. Nature and books belong to the eyes that see them. It depends on the mood of the person whether he shall see the sunset or the fine poem. There are always sunsets and there is always genius. But only a few hours so serene that we can relish nature or criticism."
"We animate what we can," Emerson said, "and we see only what we animate,"
You have learned to animate. You have learned to bring things to life. That is an enormous gift. You will do it with your friends, you will do it with your families, you will do it in the places you work. Bringing things to life through your intelligence, I submit to you, is so much more important than being able to show somebody why something they thought was alive is really dead.
That move will show how smart you are, but it will do no good. When you can use your intelligence to animate, you will harness your education in the service of life, in the service of love, in the service, to call on the spirit of Norman O. Brown, in the service of Eros, and not in the service of being smart.
We have no idea what that means. It may mean that we should "animate" the Others, that we should stop pretending that Others are morally and intellectually dead and that we're just amazingly smart.
In truth, we aren't amazingly smart. Thinking back to what Bill Maher told Ari Melber, are you aware of the various forms of liberal / progressive semi-crazy we aren't encouraged to think about, aren't even permitted to see?
We aren't sure that President Biden will be able to make it. In part, we say that because of the videotape we sometimes see when watching Fox & Friends.
Lawrence was vastly amused last night. Based on messaging from Cassandra, we aren't sure that was smart.
Once again, I don’t know the crazy Bob and Bill are talking about, since we don’t get examples. Maher sometimes tries to explain it, and things go downhill fast.
ReplyDeleteCould there be a more partisan, Tribel, bone headed and smug response to anything in our current Politics than Bob’s Trump Trump Trump? Bob is an asinine person who is proud of being asisine.
I don’t know who this doddering codger named Biden is Bob and his right wing friends are always talking about. I did see our President go through the degradation of being heckled at the State of The Union and handle it with remarkable aplomb. Zero credit for this in the Press, of course. None from Bob of course, but Biden is probably a better stand up comic today than Bob ever was.
"Why don't you ... [fill in the blank]?"
DeleteJust another version of "America, love it or leave it."
George, do you not understand the concept of a blog? It is for someone to write an essay and then others read it and engage in a back and forth discussion of what was said. My comments are always substantive. Trolls are the ones who are just calling names here.
DeleteI do think that pointing out someone's factual mistakes and their problems with reasoning might be embarrassing but that isn't name-calling.
Note that Somerby says horrible things about blue silo inhabitees for no good reason at all. Commenters don't have to sit still for Somerby's characterizations. And then there are the times where he is offensive to his readers. Pointing it out is part of correcting the record, in my opinion. Many of us feel that defending truth is an important activity, essential to our democracy.
If you don't feel the same way, you are welcome to keep doing whatever it is you think you are doing, or you could take your own advice, read something else and keep your negativity about the community here to yourself.
Why don't you use a nym? Perhaps, "Defender of Truth and Democracy."
DeleteI prefer not to use a nym. It is my choice.
DeleteDogface, don’t ask of the comment section what you don’t ask of the blogger. Long ago this blog promised an adherence to certain intellectual standards. Bob abandoned them for the likes of Donald Trump. He deservers the derision he gets.
DeleteToday's Somerby Diatribe is brought to you by the loneliness of no longer mattering, no longer having the weight you were once used to throwing around.
ReplyDeleteSomerby loves quoting song lyrics, and who better embodies these classic words from Roger Waters?
...
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to
So that when they turn their backs on you
You'll get the chance to put the knife in
...
Just another sad old man
All alone and dying of cancer
...
And when you lose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone
And it's too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around
So have a good drown, as you go down, all alone
Dragged down by the stone
...
It opens with a phrase that sounds remarkably familiar: "We're so old that we can remember". Sure it's cribbed, but without the necessary irony. Sad Somerby.
Then Somerby gives a non contextualized view of the fairness doctrine, pointedly ignoring that it was repealed by the red tribe and since then all attempts to revive it have been made by the blue tribe but blocked by the red tribe.
The concerns over the fairness doctrine have diminished as the once limited number of media outlets have greatly expanded, and one can make the argument that outlets like Fox News have been handed the rope that they will eventually hang themselves with, and that they do provide a needed outlet for pent up red tribe hate and hostility.
Next, Somerby misrepresents what is actually a backhanded compliment from Katyal, and contrary to being a "brief, shining moment", concerns over the jury pool have long been discussed.
Then Somerby offers what he calls "serious material" being withheld from the blue tribe, however, the "material", which is trivial and non contextualized, is well known by the blue tribe.
After, Somerby wanders the empty halls of his mind, lighting up when he hears a phrase from Romney he can weaponize in his empty goal of manufacturing ignorance. Romney actually nearly makes a salient point, “A man gets some people around him and begins to oppress and dominate others”. Although ignored by Somerby, this is significant, but made irrelevant in this instance since Romney and Somerby have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature: no, humans are not inherently inclined towards dominance, this is well understand in the fields of anthropology, psychology, and sociology.
Finally, we are treated to a quote that Somerby, with weird pride, has thrown at us for years; however, this quote is ridiculously vague and devoid of substance. "There comes a time", brother, please.
We have learned this week that youtube personality Dore's shift to the right coincided with monthly payments from a billionaire looking to push a right wing agenda. This same billionaire has been spreading payments all over the internet, perhaps even to this very blog.
Who is that billionaire?
DeleteWe should note, the respect Bob once had among serious people was all squandered, by Bob.
DeleteGraham Ellwood (a 30-year associate of Jimmy Dore) has accused Dore of being paid by Peter Allard (right wing billionaire). So has Jordan Chariton.
Deletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/JimmyDoreGrifter/comments/16isde5/jimmy_dore_exposed_as_billionaire_funded_media_by/
I doubt Allard would waste money on The Daily Howler.
DeleteHe wasted it lots of other places, why not Somerby? There seem to have been a lot of standup comedians on that gravy train, judging by the conversions in their ranks.
DeleteHe's not paying anyone to do anything. He died 8 months ago.
DeleteHe died on June 11, 2022. Notice the use of past tense above. That he recently died doesn't mean he wasn't funding people before his death.
DeleteTrump declared his campaign for president in 2015. That is around when Somerby changed his tune here. Similarly, Jimmy Dore changed his position on the covid vaccine when Allard (a libertarian) started paying him large amounts of money. As is now being discussed, many others were similarly paid regular amounts of money behind the scenes. That is now becoming public knowledge.
There are similar wealthy conservative individuals who have been making payments to control media behind the scenes. Allard's death doesn't stop the flow of dark money to groups who are engaged in swaying public opinion. Because several of those receiving money are comedians with blogs or youtube channels, it seems reasonable to connect these dots.
Your attempted misdirection is noted.
You're a dummy. A big fat ugly dumb dumb. A lonely moron. Go get some friends. Get out of the house and clear your head, dummy. You give liberals a bad reputation and thus drive people away from the liberal side. You -- YOU -- are what Maher and Somerby are talking about when they talk about "the crazy" fringe element on the left. There are so many problems with your idiotic suggestion that Somerby has been bought off by some right-wing billionaire, that it's hard to know where to even begin. For starters, this blog is so far off the beaten path you'd need a search team to find it. There's MAYBE a thousand people who follow this blog. A right-wing billionaire wouldn't even know this blog exists; but if he did, he sure as hell wouldn't waste a single penny supporting it -- it wouldn't even cross his mind to support such an obscure blog that has zero impact on the course of political events. Secondly, you have zero evidence for your dumb conspiracy theory. Just because you think Somerby "changed his tune" in 2015 means nothing. He didn't change his tune, first of all. But even if he had, it would be pure speculation as to WHY he might have changed his tune. But he didn't change his tune in 2015, anyway. There are about a million examples anyone familiar with this blog could cite to disprove such a stupid idea. He has always been critical of "liberal" pundits he finds fault with, starting with Chris Matthews in the 1990s and Rachel Maddow going back to at least 2009. And he has always pushed back on liberal narratives when he thinks they're faulty, like he did with the left's narrative about Bush's uranium claims. This didn't start in 2015. Thirdly, he criticizes the right at least as harshly as he does the left. Trump, Tucker, Fox, Hannity, etc., -- he routinely criticizes the biggest "influencers" on the right. And he clearly thinks these people are a danger to the country and has consistently sounded the alarm about them. Lastly, anyone with an ounce of intelligence and honesty who has read this blog over many years SHOULD by now have a decent sense of who Somerby is, what he's like, his integrity, his honesty, his political leanings, etc. The notion that such a fiercely independent, idiosyncratic liberal-leaning thinker would sacrifice the center of his universe (his blog) in order to get paid by a right-wing donor is beyond absurd. So, you're either not very bright and you actually believe your own conspiratorial bullshit, or you don't actually believe it, in which case you're just a liar. Which is it?
DeleteEpic meltdown.
Delete"According to the informal arrangements of that era, broadcasters would routinely present "both sides" of some topical issue. As soon as the viewer heard the programmed recitation of the Democratic Party's viewpoint, that viewer would hear the programmed recitation of the Republican outlook."
ReplyDeleteI grew up with the fairness doctrine on TV and I don't remember it this way. Somerby is bothsidesing this when there were not two clear-cut polarized sides in the 50s-late 80s and it was not always (if ever) a matter of Republicans vs Democrats.
There would be the evening news. Then a brief editorial. That would be followed by an opposing view that took issue with specific things said in the editorial. Opinion was clearly distinguished from news. Often the opposing view would be presented late at night, right before station sign off. The person offering the opposing view would be introduced (along with any professional qualifications) and would then summarize what was said and then offer the opposing viewpoint. These were rarely (if ever) opinions by political opponents or parties, but individuals who wanted to speak about something someone else had said earlier. This preceded the idea of "community access" that came along with PBS and UHF channels. We got a variety of opinions without the labels that define people today.
Somerby is my age. It surprises me that he is representing the fairness doctrine as if it were a kind of political rebuttal after the state of the union. It didn't work that way. It also presented a curb on excessively politicized programming because the station realized it might be required to turn over free time to opposing views if their shows took things too far. Any citizen could request time to address controversial content. This was closer to the idea of a true democracy, not corporations making money by catering to extremist political views.
Somerby's quote of Brown's gibberish, which even Somerby can neither explain nor make relevant to his own ideas, displays a lack of interest in reviving democracy in our nation. That saddens me, but talking about democracy is not compatible with whatever overall aims Somerby is pursuing these days. But I really don't remember Somerby being a fan of participatory government even back when Al Gore was running.
It is also odd that Somerby can discuss the Fairness Doctrine without mentioning Ronald Reagan. This is another legacy of our most harmful president ever. The Reagan Library says:
"In 1985, under FCC Chairman, Mark S. Fowler, a communications attorney who had served on Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign staff in 1976 and 1980, the FCC released a report stating that the doctrine hurt the public interest and violated free speech rights guaranteed by the First Amendment."
Congress tried to reinstate it but Reagan vetoed the legislation. The right wing has been opposed to it forever. Fox News would have been impossible under it. They have claimed it is a violation of free speech. In addition to the requirement for fair and balanced programming, "Licensees had the duty to devote airtime to fair and balanced coverage of controversial issues that were of interest to their home communities. Individuals who were the subject of editorials or who perceived themselves to be the subject of unfair attacks in news programming were to be granted an opportunity to reply. Also, candidates for public office were entitled to equal airtime."
Can you imagine Tucker Carlson being permitted to malign Hunter Biden night after night, under the provisions of such a doctrine?
Of course the right wanted the Fairness Doctrine gone. They have never had an intention of being fair.
"Today, factual claims and Storyline largely emerge from an array of silos."
ReplyDeleteI have never agreed with Somerby's mischaracterization of reporting and opinion as "storyline". It implies an organized coordination of content that does not happen. It is part of paranoid terminology espoused by people who think the government or shadow organizations or globalists (aka Jews) or cabals are controlling our media. It is vague and tends not to specify who or what is doing the coordination of supposed "storyline". Somerby uses that word interchangeably with "narrative." Both are innocent words that refer to the tendency of human beings to think in terms of chronological effects and cause/effect, with "In the beginning" at the start, patterns in literature in the middle, and "The end" or "They lived happily ever after" at the end of a narrative structure. The existence of such modes of thinking does not verify the existence of shadowy figures directing all knowledge, of the type Somerby continually refers to. Somerby's idiosyncratic and vague way of referencing this supposed storyline makes it difficult to address exactly what he is talking about or thinking when he uses his personal, private language to complain about public events, specific news articles or a TV host.
And then we hear about those silos again. It isn't as if Somerby has defined what he means by silo. The definitions suggested in the past few days by commenters are inconsistent with his use of the term. Where does the info in a silo come from? The silo, obviously, but who creates it, how, and to what purpose? What prevents anyone in a different silo from accessing the very public info of political discussion? How does Fox keep blue viewers out of its silo? It clearly doesn't. How does MSNBC prevent Fox viewers from seeing its info? It doesn't have any mechanism for doing that either. So what makes these silos and not simply news sources? Somerby doesn't explain that. It is his personal, private word, which he uses as he pleases, giving an ominous conspiratorial tone to his pronouncements, that makes no sense when you think about it.
Today he wants to portray the past, under the Fairness Doctrine, as a historic version of silo management, but it was nothing like that at all. Where does knowledge come from? Most people encounter info in a variety of places, process it actively and form opinions, beliefs, attitudes, a world view, a sense of identity, and a feeling of being in control of facts sufficiently to make decisions affecting themselves and our society. It is an ongoing process that never stops and it does not come from a silo where one consumes only info spoonfed by silo managers in order to control the public for political or economic reasons. That is the fantasy of those who consume dystopian fiction.
"What prevents anyone in a different silo from accessing the very public info of political discussion? How does Fox keep blue viewers out of its silo? It clearly doesn't. How does MSNBC prevent Fox viewers from seeing its info? It doesn't have any mechanism for doing that either. So what makes these silos and not simply news sources?"
DeleteWhat makes them silos is that they will invariably spoon out a slanted and pleasing-to-the-core-audience version of the news.
Actually, the definition of siloing includes keeping info away from competing groups, not just having their own sets of facts:
Delete"A silo mentality is the unwillingness to share information or knowledge between employees or across different departments within a company. "
This is part of why I don't think Somerby's analogy works very well in this political context. What is the difference between just having different points of view and siloing? None that I can see, since the red and blue tribes are not keeping any info from each other and the viewers are all self-selected.
1:32 wrote better paragraphs than 2:12 and was therefore easier to understand.
ReplyDelete"Periodically, we've been posting this statement since at least 2009. "
ReplyDeleteThe statement makes no sense without the context in which it was written, the rest of Brown's essay or book chapter, where he explains what he means by mysteries and why he thinks they are important. Somerby has highlighted part of his quote, but he doesn't explain what he finds important about the highlighted sentence either.
The word "undemocratic" is mentioned several times, and Brown suggests that poets are the legislators of mankind. He doesn't mean that literally, but what does he mean by it?
This is not communication.
Norman O. Brown died after a long decline due to Alzheimer's.
Colmes didn't actually confront Hannity. Colmes was used as a ritual punching bag so that conservative viewers could enjoy feeling powerful and watching the left be pummeled. No one considered such nightly shows to be informative and more than anyone considered TV wrestling to be real athletic contests.
ReplyDeleteColmes didn't always do a bad job; just a lot of the time.
DeleteHe wasn't hired to do too good a job. That would get him fired.
DeleteAs long as we are looking back with Bob again today, let's have a shout out to long, long time Conservative media sob sister Brett Bozell, whose family was made a national disgrace this week when his moron son Leo was found guilty of ten counts for his Jan 6 activities at the Capitol. The coverage suggests he largely took the fifth, but I can't tell if he has to remain in custody until he is sentenced on January the 9th.
ReplyDeleteBrent Bozell.
Delete"That move will show how smart you are, but it will do no good. When you can use your intelligence to animate, you will harness your education in the service of life, in the service of love, in the service, to call on the spirit of Norman O. Brown, in the service of Eros, and not in the service of being smart."
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious why this quote resonates with Somerby. Brown is calling ivy league graduates too smart for their own good and trying to take them down a peg by telling them to use their gifts for creation, not as critics. It is a very trite sentiment, one expressed by artists, writers, creative people over all of time. They don't like to have their work analyzed, only praised, and they dislike the critics who are smart enough to dissect what they have written.
This was the plot of the recent film Birdman (with Michael Keaton). The relationship between art and criticism has been well explored. To some extent, an artist cannot create something new without having first learned to analyze the work of others and figured out how to "animate" their own vision.
But Somerby just likes it when smart people are called dumb. Somerby certainly has not been following Brown's advice (don't use your smarts to hurt others) in his own essays here. Somerby is the nastiest guy on the planet when he is envious of someone else's success (such as Rachel Maddow, for example). Calling smart people dumb gets Somerby hot. I find myself wondering again, who wounded Somerby's narcissistic gradiosity at Harvard by showing him how far he is from genius. Somerby gave up and became bitter, comparing himself only with poor black kids (the only folks he could safely know more than). He could have taken Brown's words to heart and learned to be nicer to himself as a self-critic, but he decided instead to call the rest of the world fools, so he would have company in his misery.
Norman Brown discovered that sex sells, even in philosophy.
Delete"It's also true that red tribe viewers are sometimes exposed to serious material—material which is being withheld from us in our own blue silo. Watching Fox in recent weeks, we've seen Mayor Breed complaining about the damage done to San Francisco by certain groups of homeless activists. We've seen Mayor Adams saying that immigration policy will destroy New York City.
ReplyDeleteLast night, we saw tape of President Biden offering his latest embellishment. For the record, it was his very weak voice and his halting manner which worried us, more than the mere fact of this latest overstatement."
Here Somerby admits his own conservative bias. People in CA understand a great deal more about homelessness in cities than Somerby apparently does, from his framing of the issue. We also understand the history of immigration in NYC and we know where the current immigrants are coming from and why. Somerby, not so much, from his reaction to Adams. And here's the kicker -- Somerby considers Biden's accomplishments to be overstatements and not factual truth. He is calling Biden a liar with a weak voice.
Why does Somerby think about this stuff this way, which is far different from the reactions of most Democrats? He says it himself -- he has been watching Fox News and accepting what he hears there as truth when it is propaganda and disinformation. Then Somerby claims that we on the left are not hearing correct info, because our truth is different than what he hears on Fox. Yes, many other Fox viewers react this way too, but Somerby should know better. He has also watched MSNBC and even the nightly network news and he has read a few newspapers. Why have these not kept him from falling into the Fox pit? He has chosen to believe that Fox knows best and we cannot get him to change his mind about that, unless he is willing to listen. This is what we liberals have learned after years of trying to rescue our conservative friends, neighbors and relatives. We aren't going to be able to save Somerby from himself, and he has chosen to go down the rabbit-hole.
Good-bye Somerby. Be safe on your journey into madness and if Trump sends you a personal invite to a wild rally, stay home.
Breed is defending herself against a lawsuit. What else is she going to say? Does Somerby really just take such an interview at face value without looking at both sides?
Deletehttps://missionlocal.org/2022/12/scathing-allegations-against-mayor-breed-and-city-in-lawsuit-filed-over-treatment-of-the-homeless/
3:05,
Delete"He says it himself -- he has been watching Fox News and accepting what he hears there as truth when it is propaganda and disinformation."
If you can find a post where Somerby, as a general matter, says he accepts what he hears on Fox news as truth, I'll eat my keyboard.
He said it today and it is quoted by 3:05:
Delete"It's also true that red tribe viewers are sometimes exposed to serious material—material which is being withheld from us in our own blue silo. Watching Fox in recent weeks, we've seen Mayor Breed complaining about the damage done to San Francisco by certain groups of homeless activists. We've seen Mayor Adams saying that immigration policy will destroy New York City."
He calls this info "serious material" that is being withheld from blue tribe viewers. He says he saw it on Fox in recent weeks. Then he identifies several one-sided, factually incorrect stories that appeared on Fox and not on MSNBC (in the same form) because the Fox versions are slanted to present right-wing views. Instead of accepting that these reports are biased, Somerby presents them as factual material that is being kept from blue viewers.
If you read the link to the article about Breed's problems in San Francisco, you will see the facts that are left out of the Fox News version of what Breed said.
As a general matter, Somerby has acknowledged that Tucker Carlson is batshit crazy, but he has tended to call him excitable and blame his problems on his father's divorce (which is ridiculous). In the same breath, Somerby goes on to quote disinformation that has appeared on Fox and claim that the left needs to hear that stuff, needs to listen to The Others (the left doesn't call the right that, but Somerby does routinely).
You seem to have broadened the claim from Somerby accepts some Fox disinformation as true, repeats it himself and thereby spreads right wing memes, to something that was NOT said here, that Somerby believes everything on Fox News is true. To my knowledge, no one here has said that about Somerby.
A simple apology will be fine.
Bob''s statements about what both Breed and Adams said were accurate. Bob then said we wouldn't hear these statements reported on within our 'blue silos'.
DeleteIf you have evidence he was wrong on this point, what is it? If you don't, then what are you talking about?
I pointed out that Somerby didn't hear the whole story on Fox either and quoted a source discussing the lawsuit against Breed and the specifics of what Breed had done -- which Somerby DID NOT hear on Fox. So, yes, Somerby was wrong because he touted a biased (by exclusion of balanced facts) source from Fox as if the left has not heard about Breed's reaction to the suit against her.
DeleteIf you don't read the sources that people cite in ongoing discussions, you will not know what is being said, and thus what others are talking about.
Let's try again.
DeleteBob wasn't trying to present a balanced view of the issue Breed was addressing. He was stating, in fairly plain English, that her statement had been reported by Fox and was being ignored by blue media, to support his ongoing 'silo' critique.
Since you haven't provided a counterfactual, could you at least have the decency to admit you're wrong without mucking up the waters with indecipherable phrases like 'he touted a biased (by exclusion of balanced facts) source from Fox'.
When Somerby says such things, one of us will provide links to the many places in liberal media where exactly that was discussed. In this case of Breed, I was asked where Somerby had recommended watching Fox and I quoted Somerby's statement that Fox News provides info that isn't available on so-called blue media. I posted a link that showed that Fox was not presenting both sides of the story by mentioning that Breed was being sued for failing to implement city policy on homelessness in order to remove homeless people from areas where she would be visiting with her friends.
DeleteSomerby thinks Fox is filling in facts for blue vieweers, but they are actually concealing facts by not telling viewers about the content of the suit against Breed, which Breed was reacting too in the Fox News clip. I provided the link, which is a "counterfactual" to Somerby's statement that lefties do not hear about Breed's response on blue channels. Breed's statement was not being ignored, but supplemented by info about the content of the lawsuit against Breed. Blue viewers were getting the full picture whereas Fox was providing a bias view, omitting the homeless activists suing Breed and presenting only Breed's views in a highly biased framework.
I am not wrong about Somerby's specious suggestion that Fox viewers know more about Breed than blue media viewers. My statements are only "undecipherable" if you refuse to read the link I provided and thus do not understand why Fox's presentation is biased and not withheld from us by blue media, as Somerby claimed.
This boils down to: (1) Fox News covered Breed's statements maligning activists and homeless people, (2) MSNBC and especially so-called liberal newspapers covered the lawsuit itself, previous court decisions, and the allegations against Breed, in the context of the homeless crisis. They didn't do this on exactly the same day, but as part of ongoing coverage. Somerby falsely claims there has been no coverage on the left, even though this is an issue of high concern to the left.
Somerby trick is to imply that if there is nothing today, then there has been no coverage. He has said this dozens of times about various issues, before claiming that liberals are performative and don't give a damn about whatever subject he has identified. Often he says it about black kids schooling.
You are being taken in by Somerby's trick. One of us here will then list a series of links to articles in the NY Times or Washington Post or MSNBC (whichever current paper Somerby is maligning that day), which receive no comment whatsoever from any of you right wing trolls here. It is tiresome to have to keep rebutting this stuff, and then hear you, a relative newcomer here (judging by your nym) claim that Somerby is right and Fox is the only place talking about the lawsuit against Breed, when I know for a fact that is not true, and cited a source to show you the info that is being left out by Fox News when it supposedly covers a story that the left knows nothing about.
12:56,
DeleteThank you for a well-written and well-reasoned response.
I will point out that the only link I find to demonstrate 'blue media' coverage of the Breed-homeless advocate clash is to missonlocal.org, presumably a member of the blue media. However, Bob's ongoing silo theory focuses on national politics and national media.
You seem to say that MSNBC and national newspapers also covered the story. Did you provide links? If so I don't see them.
The Fox News article of 8/24/23, which seems to be the coverage Bob was referring to, reported on a speech Breed gave attended by a couple hundred people. This Fox article highlighted in a headline the fact that a judge had banned the city from closing encampments unless there were more shelter beds available than homeless people. It quoted a rep from the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights, and one from the Coalition on Homelessness (it did not include the allegation that Breed wanted the homeless to not be visible when she is out in public, which is an allegation made by a single person).
So why do you say that Fox was "not presenting both sides of the story"? And that they "supposedly" covered the story?
If you refuse to read what was published on the left, including the link I myself posted, you cannot complain that you don't know what was said.
DeleteThe only link I found from you was to the missionlocal.org article, which I read and cited in my comment.
DeleteAnd that article was written in 12/22, so is not directly relevant to Somerby's claim that the 8/23 rally was ignored in the blue media.
"In truth, we aren't amazingly smart. Thinking back to what Bill Maher told Ari Melber, are you aware of the various forms of liberal / progressive semi-crazy we aren't encouraged to think about, aren't even permitted to see?"
ReplyDeleteSomehow Bill Maher and Somerby cannot show these forms to us. How does he expect us to see them, if they cannot explain what they are? Maybe Somerby needs to animate the left-wing crazy he claims exists but never seems able to describe?
Somerby includes a long quote of Mitt Romney talking about dictators and tyrants in various empires over time. Romney is worried about American democracy, but Somerby claims he is concerned about silos:
ReplyDelete"In the larger sense, can a major nation survive the prominence of such silos? At The Atlantic, headline included, McKay Coppin reports Mitt Romney's doubts:"
Romney never uses the word silos and he is talking about dominance, tyranny, not segregation of information by parties. Why can't Somerby read and deal with what Romney actually said, not superimposing his own idea on Romney's more cogent thoughts?
Romney's belief that former empires collapsed into themselves, disintegrated, is not supported by history. Preexisting empires were incorporated into new ones by the cultures and people who defeated them. Rome didn't disappear, for example. It is still there. Even the Vatican still exists. It was occupied and changed and grew with the influx of new people and ideas (called Barbarians by the defeated), which may be part of what Norman Brown is saying when he refers to new mysteries. The Aztecs arose from the Mayans, but Mexico City is now enriched by the Spanish and new multicultural empire built on ruins.
Somer of us on the left feel that the US has been evolving politically for the worst, in ways that threaten democracy. Obviously, that doesn't bother Somerby. The right is worried about the increase in minority influence on our culture and the changes that has brought already. Romney might well point out that change is inevitable and that the rise of new empires on the site of older ones should be reassuring, not threatening to all except the vanquished.
"Lawrence was vastly amused last night. Based on messaging from Cassandra, we aren't sure that was smart."
ReplyDeleteCassandra is not speaking to Somerby. We know that for a fact. This "rhetorical device" allows Somerby to pretend to be right about things without having to supply any evidence to support his claims.
Cassandra is no different than saying, "how do you know? God told me." Or "how do you know? I just know."
Somerby may think this is cute, but it is annoying to those who want to seriously discuss the issues Somerby raises. When you look at what Somerby has said, his proof is always nonexistent and his reasons rest on a "because I said so" basis. And that is no way to discuss anything.
To accept the idea of Cassandra with her god-given gift of prophesy (and curse, because women always have curses), one would have to believe in the pantheon of Greek gods existing in that time period. I don't believe in an ancient religion any more than Somerby does, so this is stupid sophistry about Cassandra whispering in Somerby's ear. It makes more sense to believe that Lawrence is himself a god (perhaps disguised a little) who can only speak truth and therefore Somerby is full of shit.
DeleteSo, to you, this means we must take Somerby's ridiculous references to Cassandra seriously and assume he really does have such conversations, because to treat reality as real means making everything dead and only imagination has value? Brown loves his world of mind that he has personally created for himself to live in. But that doesn't mean he was telling those graduates anything helpful or valuable, other than to indulge their fantasies and pretend not to be smart while doing foolish things.
DeleteThis is hippy dippy bullshit about valuing creativity above all else -- something you can't really make a living doing, unless you knew how to tie die.
Here is an example of Somerby's "creativity": "What's up with consumers these days? They'll buy anything...amirite?"
And now he gets a stipend for selling Trump to the rubes. What would Norman O. Brown think of that, assuming he could still think?
“So, to you, this means we must take Somerby's ridiculous references to Cassandra seriously and assume he really does have such conversations, because to treat reality as real means making everything dead and only imagination has value?”
DeleteNo, that’s not what it means. It means you conceive that people, Somerby perhaps, recognize that gods, goddesses, religions, mythology are ubiquitous to mankind and we use these figures as a way of expressing thoughts and ideas that seem to spring from the heavens even though they are generally universal.
You don’t make the world more understandable by devaluing these means of expression. You make it less so.
So, it is fine with you that Somerby invents mythical figures to validate and support his assertions, instead of proving facts and evidence and reasoning, as is customary among thinking people?
DeleteSomerby says Cassandra speaks to him. If I said that my teddy bear speaks to me and agrees with everything I say, would you be more inclined to believe me? Somerby is just making shit up. Equating his inventions with religious figures and giving them inflated respect because of it, makes you a collaborator in his delusions, not someone recognizing some sort of universal. Humoring Somerby when he pulls this shit just makes you a brown-noser and he won't love you better for doing it. You make yourself look foolish.
Anonymouse 6:46pm, what you’re saying is false. When Bob expresses his opinion, he tells you why he has come to that conclusion or why he is headed there. That you are angered by a device he uses to express the sort of nightsweat restless churning we all feel as we ponder our individual and collective future is because you can’t tolerate his conclusions or anything else that isn’t you.
DeleteApollo is immortal.
DeleteCecelia, what is Somerby's explanation for why siloing will lead to the downfall of civilization? Please quote where he explains that.
DeleteAnonymouse 7:50pm, now you’re trying play cute. Good luck with that.
DeleteThis has been the subject of his blog for years. It’s why you harangue the joint daily.
Somerby does not tell people why he thinks what he writes. He rarely provides any support at all for any of his assertions. You cannot supply any evidence for today's because he didn't provide any. I'm not being cute. You told a blatant falsehood.
DeleteAnonymouse 8:10pm, he’s been providing commentary for years as to his fear that we are becoming two countries of people who no longer can communicate.
DeleteDon’t pretend you don’t understand that because you want to play around with the word silo-ing as though it stands for some immaterial concept that has no application to routine living. As though it’s dark matter.
That’s a game that you play and if he were disparaging the term as being nebulous, you’d be defending whoever had used it.
And how will that lead to the downfall of civilization?
DeleteAll you Somerby-haters: Why do you keep reading him?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete5:10:?Why does it worry you so much? Why don’t you engage with the topic and with the criticisms raised? If it weren’t for the critics, there would be no discussion and no comments at all, which would cause Somerby to get depressed and stop writing. After all, isn’t he trying to speak to those who don’t agree with him, in order to teach them something, rather than simply appealing to some epistemically closed cohort of fanboys and trolls in 100% agreement with him?
Deletemh, I suppose convenient store owners should be grateful for thugs who pan handle and menace people in the parking lot.
DeleteIf not for them, they’d have no customers.
Or they could consider the street people as members of the neighborhood, learn their names and speak to them, as they do to their regular customers. Treating people like trash doesn't evoke much cooperation. I've noticed more panhandling than menacing, but many people are afraid of anyone else, even when not being actively "menaced" (whatever than means to Cecelia). Panhandlers quickly learn who will give them money and who will not, ignoring those who are not going to help them, just as most people go about their business in SF without interacting with the street people. Not every pandhandler is homeless, by the way.
Deletemh - "Why does it worry you so much?"
DeleteExcellent question. I think what Somerby says is important. I think it would be nice to discuss his thoughts critically. Instead, the comments have always degenerated into this weird Somerby hatefest.
People regularly discuss his ideas critically. What is it that prevents you from noticing that?
DeleteFor example: In this essay, Somerby says that he believes "a civilization can't survive the power of the silos." He thinks our civilization is doomed - as he says, "the die has been cast." That is bleak.
DeleteSomerby thinks our only hope - a hope which he believes is non-existent - is if we can somehow learn to listen to Others and somehow learn to persuade Others to listen to us.
There have been 35 comments. Did any address this core argument? Almost all are pointless denunciations of trivialities or rants about Somerby's supposed failings. Somerby warns about America failing, and his commenters argue about whether he is a corrupt MAGAt or not.
Here are the comments that I think substantively addressed Somerby's core points today (which I do not agree are limited to your example):
Delete@1:27
@1:32
@2:12
@2:37
@3:05
@3:30
Several others addressed ancillary points in Somerby's essay, and thus were on topic, if not focused on core points.
I'll just look at your first one, 1:27. You suggest without any evidence at all that Somerby is corrupt, that he's on the payroll of some billionaire. In my opinion, that is scurrilous.
DeleteAnd BTW, if you're going to post that frequently, why don't you use a nym so we know who you are?
DeleteI didn't write these. You asked which ones I thought addressed Somerby's core points, so I listed them. Whoever wrote @1:27 doesn't say Somerby is being paid -- he or she says that Jimmy Dore is being paid.
DeleteWhen you want to say that someone wrote or said some specific thing, go back and double-check to make sure you have the facts right.
Personally, I believe that Somerby is being paid by someone on the right. I did go back and look at Somerby's posts over many years and found an abrupt change around 2015. I suspect that is when he started working to elect Trump. If you watch the link about Jimmy Dore, there is an extensive discussion of how the pay system worked for Dore and other standup comedians.
The whole discussion about nyms has beating a dead horse. If you care about the content of people's comments, you should start recognizing that different commenters here have different writing styles, different opinions, different "voices." It is easy to tell them apart without a nym. When Corby was here using a nym, the trolls attacked her on a personal level. Those of us who want to focus on ideas are avoiding nyms because bad people use nyms to hurt those they dislike. Ideas should stand or fall on their own merit, regardless of nyms.
Each of the essays I listed earlier has a different focus and is saying different things about Somerby's essay. There is no need for a nym and no reason to try to figure out who wrote what. Just deal with the content.
In my opinion, I think suggesting - without evidence -that Somerby is paid by someone on the right is shameful. Worse, it seems unkind. He provides free essays; he's repaid with vicious insults.
DeleteIs being paid for one's writing really a "vicious insult"? Some people call it a job.
DeleteDon't be coy. You're suggesting an "abrupt change" in his writing because he's being paid by someone on the right. You're accusing him of being a corrupt propagandist.
DeleteNo, my beef with Somerby is that he propagandizes for the right wing while claiming to be liberal. It is not illegal to support the right wing, to write for them and express opinions supporting them. That is someone's right. What bothers me about Somerby is that he is still pretending to be liberal while promoting right wing memes. That is dishonest.
DeleteIf Somerby is making money by writing for the right wing, that is his right to do. It isn't illegal or corrupt. The corrupt part is lying about his political views while promoting Trump. But people lie all the time. That isn't illegal in this context because he isn't committing any kind of fraud when he says he is liberal while promoting Fox News, as he did today.
I will continue to correct the misleading and incorrect things Somerby says here, as he continues to help Trump get elected, while pretending he will be voting for Biden.
The billionaire that is accused of paying Dore is Canadian, not right-wing and has been dead for a while now. It's strange that the people accusing Dore don't even realize the sugar daddy and question died last year.
Delete8:31,
DeleteCan I help your noble cause? Here are some actual quotes from Bob showing how desperately he's working to get Trump elected:
'For ourselves, it has long been our assumption that Trump is, in fact, in the grip of some severe "mental illness" or "personality disorder."'
'We assume that Trump could, in fact, be diagnosable as (colloquially) a "sociopath"—as someone in the grip of "antisocial personality disorder."'
'In the aftermath of the 2020 election, Trump was surely engaged in lunatic conduct based upon a lunatic refusal to accept and acknowledge the fact that he had lost the election.'
Bob’s idiocy tells us something about America, what we are up against. On another level, Christ, this guy went to one of the most prestigious schools in the US, yet his willful foolishness, utter lack of self knowledge, joyfull hypocrisy- it can’t help but fascinate.
DeleteHector, quoting out of context does not tell your readers that the isolated statements you are highlighting were embedded in essays where Somerby went on to castigate Biden or liberals more generally while advancing whatever conservative meme-of-the-day was being promoted as a talking point -- except for that 6-1/2 week period when Somerby was busy trying to prove that black kids in MS cannot have improved their reading scores through hard work by their teachers and better funding of proven programs and teacher training. Had to be cheating on the NAEP said Somerby.
DeleteCalling Trump a sociopath does not prove that Somerby hasn't already voted for him or wouldn't in the future. It is Somerby's main reason why Trump should not be tried and put in jail for his crimes. Being a sociopath is not illegal. It is not even a disqualifier for president. It is a personality disorder that many successful people hold (such as surgeons for example). Somerby has never acknowledged Trump's role in 1/6, never supported the impeachments of Trump, always blamed the women for Trump's womanizing (they are grifters). Trump supporters don't care that Trump is a probable sociopath. They think that is a sign of strength and they enjoy his rule-breaking. He is owning the libs with every "antic" he engages in. They love him for it.
Find a quote where Somerby has supported Biden or Clinton for president.
Allard died in June 2022. That doesn't mean he didn't fund Jimmy Dore and others, as many are now coming forward and saying. Allard was an anti-vax nut who suppported those who would talk against the vaccine.
DeleteThe fact that it has been a year since he died says nothing about what he did while alive. Being Canadian also has nothing to do with this. There are rules against contributing to political campaigns by foreign citizens and organizations, but this is about funding journalists, bloggers and other vocal commentators for advancing causes Allard cared about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cwn0ct-6JM
She [Jenn Dize] takes a while to get going, but she gives specifics about payments as someone involved.
I was just correcting the previous commenter that incorrectly said that they were right wing and didn't understand, like the accusers themselves, that the billionaire currently is not alive. Now they know.
Delete1102, what was the exact misinformation about the vaccine that the billionaire was pushing?
DeleteThe reason I ask is because as you know the Biden administration has been found guilty of censoring Americans free speech. And a lot of the conduct for which they were found guilty had to do with censoring vaccine information that turned out to be true. As you know.
Delete@12:18 PM
Deleteyou must always add: "vaccines are safe and effective at preventing serious illness or death" at the end of your comments mentioning vaccines.
Please do, it's better this way. It's for your own good.
"Calling Trump a sociopath does not prove that Somerby hasn't already voted for him or wouldn't in the future."
DeleteCorrect. In the same sense that if I say you argue like a ninny, it doesn't prove I wouldn't vote for you for Commenter of the Year.
But it does make it less likely.
The problem is that Somerby says something obvious about Trump being a sociopath, then he makes a specific criticism of Biden, Harris, Clinton (when running) and then includes the favorite right wing talking point of the day as the main focus of the essay.
DeleteFor example, Somerby says that Trump is a sociopath but he is afraid Trump can win. Then he spends several paragraphs talking about how Biden is too old to be president, ignoring that Trump is 77, only 3 years younger than Biden.
You need to look beyond the superficially negative statement about Trump and see the structure and content of Somerby's entire essay, which is to knock Biden while pretending he is a liberal supporter of Biden.
Somerby does this almost daily.
Biden supporting Democrats have a right to believe that he is too old and can lose to Trump. Saying and believing that does not make someone not a Biden supporter. Biden supporters can criticize Democrats and it may or may not coincide with the right-wing talking point, but that doesn't matter. It is you who is drawing the connection between the talking points and the opinions. It is up to you to make a connection with conclusive evidence that for instance he is being paid by right wing billionaires. It is up to you to prove it. Until then, shut the fuck up because anyone anywhere under any political persuasion has the right to any opinion they want.
DeletePeople want to be shielded from reality. It's totally strange. But this particular troll, Corby, maybe in an insane asylum. They may be insane. Their comments are.
DeletePeople thought so hard and died for free speech. Now these dumb mentally ill children like Corby are fighting to be protected from it.
DeletePeople fought so hard and died for free speech. Now these dumb mentally ill children like Corby are fighting to be protected from it.
DeleteYes, @1:15, it could be that Somerby is a Biden supporter who is concerned about his age, but this is not a one-off complaint about Somerby's lack of support for Democratic candidates while claiming to be liberal. It is a pattern of behavior at Somerby's blog.
DeleteAs I've mentioned before (and anyone can verify), Somerby called all of the Democratic nominees "horrible" (yes, he used that exact word). He criticized Kamala Harris for lying, after she was named the VP candidate running with Biden. He repeatedly said negative things about Hillary Clinton, calling her a failed candidate while she was running against Trump. And he never said anything positive about any of the Democratic candidates, repeating that he was afraid Trump would win and explaining why red voters liked him (during a campaign in which Democrats were trying to defeat Trump).
And during the entire time, he continue repeating the right wing meme-of-the-day, the right wing talking points being discussed all over the internet by Republicans.
It is remotely possible that Somerby thinks he is "helping" with this behavior, but he was too politically astute back in 1998 (when he started this blog) for that to be genuine in the context of his defense and support of Trump's campaigns. And this behavior started in 2015, when Trump announced his campaign. Before that, he was a frustrated but normal liberal blogger. The misogyny and racism have become more blatant since 2015 as well, as Somerby has abandoned the pretense of being a liberal.
This past history makes it very difficult to believe that Somerby is a Democrat who is genuinely concerned that Biden is too old, despite Biden's many accomplishments and obvious better functioning than Trump, who is about the same age and yet has never been called too old by Somerby at this blog.
Ooohhh, so sad. One of the trolls has acquired a verbal tic. Hope he isn't having a stroke.
Delete127 no shit that's what you believe. Youve said it 20,000 times over and over. You're wrong. It's stupid logic. The Democratic Party can be criticized on its own terms. End of story. Stop trying to shield yourself from reality you stupid ignorant child.
DeleteLike this makes sense...
Delete@1:15 PM
Delete"It is up to you to make a connection with conclusive evidence that for instance he is being paid by right wing billionaires."
In fact, proving that some political commentator is getting money from some billionaire doesn't prove much by itself.
The insinuation here is that billionaire's money affects commentator's objectivity, but that's far from obvious. It's quite possible that the billionaire simply likes the show, and sends money to it, not expecting anything in return.
The Clintons "charity" business, for example, was getting plenty of money from Saudi sheikhs. But try to suggest to the Corby troll that it makes Clintons corrupt -- and watch her squeal.
Only a crazy or disingenuous person would think that there are no legitimate criticisms to be made about the Democratic party or Biden and that these legitimate criticisms could coincide where the memes from the right wing who have made them into memes because they are legitimate. Biden is too old. It is a huge concern that he could lose to Trump. You think that's exclusive to the right wing?
DeleteHow can calling someone old be a criticism? It isn't as if (1) Biden could do anything to get younger, (2) being old is a bad thing, since the alternative is being dead, (3) age is being related to job performance by Somerby, (4) people all decline in old age at the same rate, (5) Biden had committed any error that could be attributed to his age and that warranted such criticism. Trump has been twice impeached and is under four criminal indictments and numerous civil trials. How does that make him fitter than Biden, whose main sin is he tripped and fell down once?
DeleteI think it is a huge concern that anyone would lose to Trump. There are no better Democratic candidates in the wings who could reasonably do better than Biden against Trump. Most Democrats are afraid a newcomer would be a worse contender, not gleefully happy that Biden is so old.
Taking all of this into consideration, do you think Somerby has written a serious article about Biden's age? If so, go look at what some of the other Democratic pundits have been saying about this and note the lack of Somerby's incessant negativity toward the left. Also note the genuine criticism of the right that most of them express, but is lacking in every single one of Somerby's essays.
Here is the link again to the person with first hand experience that Jimmy Dore was being paid for anti-vax statements by Peter Allard, billionaire (yes, now dead and previously from Canada, but very anti-vax).
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cwn0ct-6JM
Is that the billionaire that a previous commenter falsely called right wing?
DeleteDid this billionaire believe something about vaccines that was wrong?
DeleteI understand why a rich libertarian might send money to Jimmy Dore's show. I see no problem in it whatsoever.
DeleteThis, on the other hand:
Why Did the Saudi Regime and Other Gulf Tyrannies Donate Millions to the Clinton Foundation?
"The claim that this is all just about trying to help people in need should not even pass a laugh test, let alone rational scrutiny."
"There are no better Democratic candidates in the wings who could reasonably do better than Biden against Trump. "
DeleteWhy is that? That is a huge problem. Thatit speaks to the incompetency of the people that are running the party.
He is a libertarian. After covid, he became a rabid anti-vaxxer, which puts him in the conservative camp, but I would characterize him as more like a fucked up RFK, Jr. (who appears to be a genuine grifter above all else). These days, you can judge someone by who they donate money to. Jimmy Dore definitely went conservative when he began being funded by dark money. Same with Somerby. Somerby might have been confused for a liberal in his youth, but not in a long time.
DeleteIn Allard's case, one might blame incipient Alzheimer's, since that is what he died of, and it is a degenerative disease, which means you decline instead of getting it all at once. I don't know whether that is Somerby's excuse or not.
Maybe we can get the government to censor this website. Oh wait. That's illegal. They were found guilty by a federal judge for doing that this summer and an appellate court fully backed up the decision.
DeleteWhat vaccine claims did he make that were wrong?
DeleteAre you trolls so dumb that you don't know Hillary isn't running for office?
Delete"...Jimmy Dore definitely went conservative..."
DeleteHe went anti-shitlib, actually. Long time ago; long before COVID.
What vaccine claims did the man who was falsely accused of being right wing make that were wrong?
Delete@2:26
DeleteYes, he did that. And then he went conservative for the money. This is not my opinion, since I do not watch him, but the opinion of those who are explaining when he started accepting money and how that influenced the content of his show. These are people who have known him and worked with him for 30 years.
He isn't the only one. Look at folks like Glen Greenwald and even Bill Maher. People don't show up regularly on Fox News because they hate shitlibs. Somerby himself has never expressed any disgust over shitlibs either. He just drifted right and let it all hang out when Trump arrived.
Why would a billionaire who wanted to influence opinion approach leftys who call liberals shitlibs? Because liberals are not going to be influenced by actual conservatives. A supposed progressive or even a shitlib is going to have liberal credibility so that when he says Biden is too old, some credulous liberal leaning person might think, "Hey, if Somerby thinks that, maybe Biden is too old, and I should vote for RFK JR. instead, because at least he's a progressive like me (as if). Hopefully, no lefties are that dumb, but the idea is that even a converted lefty is going to sway more votes than Fox will.
That's why Somerby's lying about his beliefs makes him more dangerous as a propagandist than if he were a right winger from the start. That's why Allard deliberately recruited left-leaning comedians with a following among young men. Why pay someone who wouldn't be able to influence any votes?
Shitlib is such a lovely name -- only a Bernie bro could have invented it.
"What vaccine claims did the man who was falsely accused of being right wing make that were wrong?"
DeleteFollow the link I posted earlier. It explains what Dore did for the money and what Allard wanted Dore to say, how he influenced content using his payments. It is very details (after a fairly long throat clearing at the beginning of the video).
It doesn't matter if they knew him for a thousand years. His podcast isn't even five years old. If this guy was funneling money in an nefarious way come up with the proof and show us all. Until then, stick your unproven accusations, which are intended to kill the messenger and avoid the substance of the issues at hand up, your ass hole.
DeleteFools be grasping for excuses. Hoping they will delegitimize criticisms, accurate criticisms against their own party.
DeleteI did post proof. Follow the link, or can't you read?
DeleteThat link didn't offer any proof. There is no proof. You're a liar.
DeleteAnd you can't even identify anything. He said about the vaccines that was false. You lose again.
Delete"What vaccine claims did the man who was falsely accused of being right wing make that were wrong?"
DeleteThere are current DNC talking points - and everything else. Everything else is 'wrong'.
And everyone who wouldn't comply must be smeared. That's the game.
It sure is, isn't it? We are free to believe and say anything we want as long as it is exactly what they want us to believe and say.
DeleteAnything else, you are guilty and outside of the tribe.
In psychology it's called splitting or black and white thinking. It's literally mentally unbalanced logic.
Fortunately, they have taken Corby's iPad away for the night at the insane asylum.
DeleteNow they are trying to redefine anti-vax.
Delete“..,ignoring those who are not going to help them,”
ReplyDeleteThat doesn’t work at convenience stores or blogboards.
Or wholesale wine outlets.
DeleteLet alone at the Social Security office.
DeleteIt must be such a hardship for you, Cecelia, having to share the world with other human beings.
DeleteAnonymouse 6:41, we aren’t talking about regular human beings, but aggressive street people isn’t the right analogy.
DeleteYoure organized crime.
.
You don't get to define which human beings are "regular" and which are unfit beings. You just get to go through your life along with the others doing the same -- all of us doing the best we can. If you are a good, decent person, you try to do that with as much kindness as you can muster.
DeleteNo, it’s you who is defining “regular human beings”. I didn’t use that expression, you did.
DeleteYou wouldn’t call me a regular human being, but for the sake of saying that I called someone “unfit” you’ll pretend that ALL people are alike and that there are no differences between dangerous street people and other homeless people.
That’s dishonest. Spare me the faux moral outrage.
I meant that I didn’t use “regular human beings “ as a universal definition for people.
DeleteYou said: "...we aren’t talking about regular human beings, but aggressive street people..."
DeletePeople are not all alike. I don't give money to pandhandlers or homeless people (directly). But they all have the right to be in parking lots and convenience stores along with you, and social security offices too.
Take a little more care to say what you mean the first time. You have been especially incoherent lately.
I fear Cecelia more than I fear any thug.
DeleteNo, people do not have the right to pan handle on other people’s property.
DeleteNo, I did not assert that all panhandlers are aggressive. However, being routinely approached by strangers on a parking lot is deleterious to a business.
On the other hand, unlike your description of yourself, back in the cash in handbag days, I routinely handed out money to panhandlers even when they were drunk, figuring that another bottle of whatever was better than death by DT’s.
I’d tell you to take care before you accuse others of uncaring behavior, but then you’d be without a job shtick.
Anonymouse 7:38pm, as you should.
DeleteGood lord Cecelia. No one said they had the right to panhandle anywhere and no one said you said ALL panhandlers do anything. Way to shift goalposts. I quoted what you said, and it is bad enough.
DeleteI don't see anything good about giving out money to drunks or panhandlers. It perpetuates a problematic lifestyle. It is better to give money to shelters and social service organizations that help people in need.
Here is why it is not "caring behavior" to give money to panhandlers. The main way panhandlers get money from people is by making them feel uncomfortable about their own relative prosperity. People give out money to make that personal discomfort go away -- to feel like a good person. Talk about performative.
“
DeletePeople are not all alike. I don't give money to pandhandlers or homeless people (directly). But they all have the right to be in parking lots and convenience stores along with you, and social security offices too.”
That sounds like you’re saying that panhandlers have the right to panhandle on parking lots and outside of social security offices.
Oh, but now you were merely suggesting that people who are not panhandling have the right to be at these places. Of course that was never in dispute, but thanks for the public service message.
And thanks for the advice about giving to organizations rather doing handouts. Of course giving to people directly doesn’t preclude the other, but fine, anonymouse lectures come with the job description.
As to that last bit of advice about panhandlers, I’m not at all bothered by being duped ‘in giving to someone. I would certainly be bothered by not giving when it was direly needed.
You make your own choice.
I directly addressed every statement you made.
DeleteThis could change the entire paradigm of Trump's antics:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/Cq_Azya7_c8
James Galway plays JS Bach's famous "Air" --
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZ45FUOUdM
Cecilia and Dogface George, thank you so much for trying to maintain simple fairness and coherence here. There always seem to one or more people here doing that in the face of the self-congratulatory throngs of Anonymous commenters, whose benighted antics would be laughed down anywhere but in this insane context, where being unwilling to post in a way that lets other readers easily and quickly identify who is speaking is seen, with astonishing consistency, as some kind of defensible badge of honor, as preposterous as that is on its face. We are talking about using a nym here. On what planet is that too much to ask?
ReplyDeleteEarth.
DeleteEric illustrates the futility of using a nym. Here is another commenter praising those he agrees and ganging up on the others. But we have no way of knowing whether Eric might not be Hector or Cecelia or Dogface or Leroy or impCaesarAvg or any of the other one-name wonders who appear here sporadically. mh uses a nym. It doesn't seem to keep anyone from attacking him. Nor does it mean anyone here can identify who he is in real life.
DeleteWhy do these conservative commenters want the blue commenters to use nyms? To make the name-calling easier. That's all it is.
And note the conservative willingness to impose rules on others, to FORCE commenters to conform to their demands for names, to interfere with the free speech of others (which is their claim against the left right now). They don't seem to mind meddling with the rights of others, when it suits their need to criticize without actually having anything valid to say about a topic.
Eric's complaint about self-congratulatory throngs engaging in antics, sounds like Cecelia's pique over being called a bad person for the things she actually said about homeless people and panhandlers not being regular human beings. Meanwhile Eric is a new name, perhaps hiding a regular commenter while she tries to revenge herself on someone who embarrassed her (by quoting her own statements).
Antics indeed. Like quoting facts and linking to sources? You mean those antics?
I have never used anyone else's nym, and I've never seen anyone use my nym.
DeleteThe point is not whether you did, because that is not available info, but whether you could if you wanted to. Nyms are useless as identifiers. A while back someone was imitating mh by using his nym on comments he obviously would not have made. Did using a nym protect him from that?
DeleteEvery once in a while, someone will suggest that all of the anonymous commenters are the same person. Just as you know what you have and have not written (and whether anyone has imitated your nym previously), I know that too. I know how many anonymous commenters are not me. But I don't consider any of the others to be imitating me and I am not imitating them. That is an advantage to being anonymous that is not available to those with nyms.
On the other hand, some commenters have been using Corby's name even though Corby has not posted here as Corby in literally years. It is hostility, not flattery or discussion, and it is the same kind of "borrowing" of identity that Somerby seems to think is his right. It is harder to do that when you don't use a nym and the worst Cecelia can call you is a rodent.
I dream of a world where people deal with each other's ideas, instead of trying to hurt each other using words. But the right is handicapped by its lower education and lack of knowledge, so they use blunt force. I consider that a preview of how they would govern if Trump were reelected.
I am not including you in these remarks, imp, because I mostly see you adding or correcting factual info and not joining in the trolling or intimidation tactics in defense of Somerby.
I often wonder how a minor blogger like Somerby has managed to acquire a cadre of dedicated right wing trolls who jump to his defense so readily. Who has that motivation?
"And note the conservative willingness to impose rules on others, to FORCE commenters to conform to their demands for names"
DeleteMaybe I missed something here. Exactly what FORCE was applied to you? (and btw, that was a quite forceful use of all-caps)
Continuing obnoxious pressure over a period of several years now. Being called mice and accused of being other people who I am not. Attempts to track down and punish Corby, which have a chilling effect on other commenters here.
DeleteThis strongly suggests that if you guys had the ability to force the use of a nym, you would do it. Because none of you seem to understand what is wrong with your current demands for nyms.
I am sick of people asking for a nym instead of addressing the things I take the time to say about Somerby's essays, often looking up his links and finding background info, and excerpting relevant sources relevant to the topic.
I dream of a world where people deal with each other's ideas, instead of trying to hurt each other using words. But the right is handicapped by its lower education and lack of knowledge ..."
DeleteInsane, circular trolling logic from the Uber troll loser Corby/ Perry /a.
Hey dumb shit, you don't need a nym as your trolling bullshit speaks for itself.
And that's why there are over a hundred comments here and only a handful deal with anything Somerby said. Because you guys are so incensed at Corby (who left this blog years ago) to pay any attention to what your favorite blogger is even saying.
DeleteYou guys are too stupid to even see what Somerby is saying, so you take out your frustrations on those who want to discuss his ideas.
Go back to community college and finish your education. I suggest English classes, not Business or Phys Ed this time.
At some point you apparently learned that circular reasoning is bad, but you still don't know how to identify it in someone's writing. So you sound like Cecelia, when she tries to use a big word and is too lazy to look it up before commenting.
How are you going to hurt Corby's feelings when Corby is not here? Next you'll be begging deadrat for help, except he discovered Somerby really is a bigot and left the scene too.
Thank you for your bullshit response, Corby
DeleteYou're welcome, Cecelia.
DeleteIf Somerby is just a Democrat sincerely concerned about Biden's age, why does this blog attract so many conservative fan-boys?
I enjoy Somerby because he uses his brain and he is honest enough to take the conservative side when the facts warrant doing do. Most bloggers, whether conservative or liberal, tend to take their side of every issue, regardless of the facts. One example was Somerby's accurate description of the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman matter.
DeleteI particularly appreciate Somerby's media criticism because they deserve it. IMO almost all of the media are biased one way or the other. They also sometimes bend over backwards to avoid using their brain, when they report something that's obviously incomplete or inaccurate.
210 because they are not conservative fanboys. They are other Democrats that support Biden agree with Bob that Biden is too old and it's an extreme danger to run him against Trump.
DeleteYou're making a mistake that criticism of Biden and Democrats equals support for the people they are running against. It's so childish. How old are you?
Even David recognizes that Somerby is conservative. Your argument that Somerby is some kind of Democrat is inconsistent with Somerby's lack of endorsement of any Democratic value or anything in the most recent Democratic platform. That makes him no kind of Democrat.
DeleteWell, if you don't think he's a Democrat, That's your right. Your logic doesn't make any sense. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. You have no idea. The only reason you bring it up is to avoid the substance of his claims.
DeleteDoesn't it make sense, though, that he shouldn't be a Democrat? Unless he wants to live in that silo with all the rest of its low-info/low-IQ dwellers.
DeleteWhy would anyone want that?
Trying to convince people that a conservative is actually liberal is called gaslighting.
Deleteanon 3:50, one small example of how you distort things - D in C did not "recognize" that TDH is "conservative." D in C said that TDH "TDH is honest enough to take the conservative side when the facts warrant doing so." Is the "conservative side never right about anything? Is the "liberal" side infallible? Especially here, there are constant astoundingly irrational arguments made by commenters attacking the blogger - either it's because of an inability to apply logic or reason, or some type of weird trolling, probably the former.
DeleteThe conservative side is never right about anything. Bingo!
DeleteFirst, conservatives have no platform. They ran in 2020 on Elect Trump and didn't bother developing a platform at all. Second, conservatives who disagree with the extremists and MAGA conservatives have become never-Trumpers or Independents. Only a few are now Democrats. That suggests that there is dissension on the right about its own ideas. Third, according to many analysts, conservatism is no longer principled but has adopted a standard of doing and saying whatever keeps them in power. That leaves nothing to agree about or be right about, except whether they should rule. The "antics" surrounding McCarthy's speakership illustrate that. Conservatives, who formerly might have cared about the economic and financial health of the nation are now ready to shut it down, ruining our credit rating and standing in the world and doing serious damage to our economy -- over power. It is very hard to agree with anything like that, but that is a lot of what has been going on among conservatives. Stunts to own the libs and attack Democrats are not principle positions or programs that can be enacted. That leaves little to agree with.
DeleteIn the past, I recall that conservatives were right about Alger Hiss being a spy. That didn't make them right about Eugene McCarthy. I think Nixon was right to open relations with China. I admired his position on jobs programs, Hispanics and the need to allow immigrants to enter and work in agriculture. He was also, of course, a crook who broke laws to stay in power. I admired the public service and heroism of George H.W. Bush, but I did not agree with his policies. With George W. Bush and the contra conspiracy, the neglect of FEMA that resulted in the Katrina screw up, the neglect of national security so that he ignored warnings about 9/11, and of course, his invasion of Iraq, I considered Bush the worst president ever. Worse than Ronald Reagan, who implemented conservative policies that demonstrably did not work out well for our country. Democrats have been winning elections since then because we have better programs and policies, a better grasp on how to help the country prosper financially, and because Democrats recognize that we all must prosper or no one can (hence the emphasis on social justice and eliminating poverty). I believe Democratic approaches have proven themselves while Republicans have not, especially not conservatives. Then Trump came along and the Republicans sold their soul for power. Lying, allying with foreign enemies for political gain, cheating and suppressing votes, and so on -- these are crimes, not policies or programs. And no, conservatives cannot be right about anything while engaging in such behavior.
When Republicans included principled, dedicated public servants instead of grifters, thieves, and morons, there was something to agree with, to approve of, in the Republican party. I have voted for several Republicans, including Thomas Kuchel and Chad Mayes in CA. I admire Romney and Cheney for taking a principled stand against Trump. But that isn't the same as finding anything "right" about the conservative side, especially not since Newt Gingrich, Lee Atwater, Karl Rove and similar crooks took over the party.
Defend these people at your own risk, AC/MA. At least one political party needs to maintain some sense of what is right and wrong, what is legal and what is corrupt, if we are to save our democracy. I find it incredible that so many Republicans have given in to Trump and the circus on the right. I don't understand it, I don't approve of it, and I will not support it as long as there is anything I can still do about those assholes.
Now tell me again, with a straight face, that you really think Biden is a pedophile.
370 words.
Delete2 words
DeleteCecelia is the Lauren Boebert of commenters.
ReplyDeleteLeftist law professor Paul Campos says the Republicans are the new party of the working class:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2023/09/labor-and-value
And yet John Fetterman is marching with the UAW while Trump refuses to endorse the strike.
DeleteHe is being ironic when he says:
Delete"The new party of the working class everybody:"
and then shows a clip of Tim Scott saying that people who want more pay should work more hours.
So he’s ridiculing the working class.
DeleteNo, he is ridiculing Tim Scott and the idea that he has the well-being of the working class at heart.
DeleteRidiculing Scott is cruel.
DeleteDid not know Campos taught law school.
Delete"Paul F. Campos is a law professor, author and blogger on the faculty of the University of Colorado Boulder in Boulder. Campos received his A.B. and M.A. in English from the University of Michigan and in 1989 his J.D. from the University of Michigan Law School." Wikipedia
DeleteA professor is a different position than simply teaching law school. Most of those who just teach classes are adjunct faculty. A professor is a full-time tenured position that requires research in addition to teaching. Students use the title professor to address all of their teachers, but technically speaking, only tenured or tenure-track faculty are called professors.
He couldn't be highly rated as a law professor though. Could he? His posts on that blog are usually of such low intellectual and epistemological quality.
DeleteThat's because he's a shitlib.
DeleteThe word "professor" has two meanings
Deletea: a faculty member of the highest academic rank at an institution of higher education
b: a teacher at a university, college, or sometimes secondary school
I can't imagine poor young law students being taught by Paul Campos. My god.
DeleteDavid, isn't that what I just said?
DeleteDavid said it with higher intellectual and epistemological quality.
DeleteSomerby says that the Fairness Doctrine "came and went" but that is a bit misleading. The Fairness Doctrine originated around the time that TV itself moved from the lab to being a household appliance. It "went" when the Republicans removed it during Ronald Reagan's administration.
ReplyDeleteSomerby's passive phrasing suggests that the coming and going was part of natural causes. In truth, the doctrine was actively fought and removed by one political party in order to gain a political advantage over the other.
The Fairness Doctrine was no longer needed when the number of alternative news sources became large. At least that was the excuse for removing it.
DeleteBTW the New York Times and PBS have curious kind of fairness. Their regular pundits include some co-called conservatives, but all them support any Democrat over Trump. They may be right to do so, but anyone who votes Democratic isn't much of a conservative.
Anonymices, do you understand why you are able to reference all the posts I write on a particular day, compare those posts to my past statements, refer to any past remark I’ve made, recall past remarks that have been made to me, and excoriate my person in general?
ReplyDeleteBecause I have a verified and consistent nym.
Knock yourself out.
On the other hand, you go by anonymous in order to avoid all that. Like all bullies, you denigrate everyone who disagree with you. You call them liars and poseurs. Then you whine like babies when some poster makes any attempt nail your words to you.
You are the anonymouse apparatchiks that you are.
Your comments are not worth comparing to anything else you've written because you never say anything meaningful, not even about Somerby.
DeleteYes, and here we see your tactic of pretending that all anonymous commenters are the same person and blaming all of them for what any one of them has said, such as claiming that you are using a fake nym.
Apparatchiks definition:
"a member of a Communist Party"
That isn't denigrating anyone, I suppose.
apparatchik
Delete(æpərætʃɪk IPA Pronunciation Guide )
Word forms: apparatchiks plural
COUNTABLE NOUN
An apparatchik is someone who works for a government or a political party and who always obeys orders.
Anonymouse, you have chosen to be this.
Cecelia is sensitive, vulnerable, delicate.
DeleteAnd which government do you think we anonymous commenters are working for, and following whose orders?
DeleteGet real and stop lying. You heard the word and know it is used to describe communists so you are name-calling others.
You are stupider than Lauren Boebert, but just as much of a liar. When you watch the security video of her fondling her "boyfriend" in the dark, notice that he doesn't reciprocate.
Did you somehow read me say that I wasn’t name-calling you? I’m name calling you.
DeleteI’m calling you an apparatchik. You know…the thing that Somerby is not… so you apparatchiks must gnaw on his toes.
Yeah, I understand what you’re referencing with the Boebert thing, as to me defending Bob, and I’m not at all surprised. That’ sort of thing is your job description and you’re very suited to it.
Digby reviews Trump's mental decline today:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2023/09/16/whos-the-senile-one/
Trump makes Biden look like a spring chicken (that means young, for you trolls).
First he mistakenly goes on at length about how he beat Obama, then at the very end switches to Hillary. Next, he claims the Democrats are engaging in after-birth abortion, saying "they're killing babies after birth, after birth!" For those who don't know, that is called murder.
DeleteThen he claims we should have ID to vote because you have to have an ID to buy a loaf of bread, repeating it, "to buy a loaf of bread". Has he ever bought groceries himself? He could say you need an ID to get on an airplane, but he keeps repeating the gaffe.
Then he calls Biden "cognitively impaired" and claims that Biden will quickly get us into World War TWO, "more devastating than any other war, it will obliterate everything, everybody..."
Digby says:
"Someone needs to ask him if he really thinks that you need ID to buy a loaf of bread. And I’d love to hear someone confront him on the WWII comment. He’ll have to either deny it, when it on tape for everyone to see or he’ll have to admit he misspoke which he seem incapable of doing. Yes, it’s a gotcha question but that’s what they’re doing with Biden and it’s only fair that this 77 year old man falls under exactly the same scrutiny. You can be sure that if he didn’t trowel on the bronze make-up and dye his hair people would be much less impressed with his alleged “vitality.” Close your eyes and he sounds like an old man at the end of the bar ranting with his buddies about kids these days."
But Somerby is concerned about Biden's age!
DeleteNo one here needs Digby to tell us about Trump's mental decline as Bob writes about it consistently.
DeleteConcerns about Trump's mental stability and Biden's age are not mutually exclusive. Outside of partisan blogs that is.
Trump and Biden are both old. This isn't apples and oranges, it is apples and apples. Year for year, Biden is doing much better than Trump -- that's the point.
DeleteThat's the point? That couldn't be more fucking obvious. Was someone disputing that?
Deleteyes
Deleteyes
DeleteI am noticing a pattern. The trolls here refuse to look at the links that are provided by those they are trolling. It suggests they are being paid by the comment, like tele-marketers, so they cannot really engage in any discussion much less look at evidence someone posts.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone refuses to look at evidence posted by someone else, that is a reasonable definition of bad faith, in my opinion. So, we know where this whole raft of assholes is coming from today.
Signing off now.
Post the content of the links then dumb shit.
DeleteIe. You've been served and you can't back up your claims.
DeleteI did, twice now.
DeleteKen Paxton has been acquitted.
ReplyDeleteFlorida Republicans have decided that a candidate doesn’t have to promise to support the eventual nominee. This is a victory for Trump over DeSantis.
ReplyDeletehttps://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/15/politics/florida-gop-loyalty-oath-trump-desantis/index.html
NEWS/COMMENTARY
ReplyDeleteBiden just starts randomly SHOUTING during speech
Trump says cognitively impaired Biden will lead us into WORLD WAR TWO — during gaffe-laden speech in which he appeared to say he was leading OBAMA* in the polls.
Can we really not do better than these two?
Biden shouted during a speech?
DeleteI assume they are talking about the event where his mic was turned off and he didn't realize it.
DeleteI think I see what David is getting at. Kamala Harris doesn't shout during speeches, so Biden should resign or be removed.
DeleteBiden said he was at 911 the day after in a recent speech which was not remotely true. So that's an example of a bizarre and unnecessary gaffe from him. But obviously he's too old.
DeleteDo you judge based on the state of the union or a speech gaffe?
DeleteJudge, what?
DeleteWho to vote for in 2024
DeleteCapital took over both parties in the 50s-70s. The fairness doctrine was a last whimper of coherence.
ReplyDeleteBill Maher will not be honoring the strike. Big surprise.
ReplyDelete