SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2023
Let's go way, way back: This morning's New York Times features a "guest essay" by Dalia Hatuqa. The essay carries a headline whose accuracy can't be denied:
This War Did Not Start a Month Ago
This War Did Not Start a Month Ago, the headline says. But when exactly did the war start?
Commenters to this essay make one point abundantly clear. This war can have started wherever you want this war to have started, depending on the advantage you may want to gain for one of its principal sides.
Hatuqa is a widely published and highly respected journalist. The identity line of her essay describes here in this manner:
Ms. Hatuqa is an independent journalist who specializes in Palestinian-Israeli affairs. She wrote from Ramallah, West Bank.
Hatuqa wrote from the West Bank. As best we can tell, that's where she principally lives.
Hatuqa isn't writing from a neutral site on the dark side of Neptune. Her general frame of reference might seem to be fairly clear in this early part of her essay:
HATUQA (11/18/23): To many inside and outside this war, the brutality of Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks was unthinkable, as have been the scale and ferocity of Israel’s reprisal. But Palestinians have been subject to a steady stream of unfathomable violence—as well as the creeping annexation of their land by Israel and Israeli settlers—for generations.
If people are going to understand this latest conflict and see a path forward for everyone, we need to be more honest, nuanced and comprehensive about the recent decades of history in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank, particularly the impact of occupation and violence on the Palestinians. This story is measured in decades, not weeks; it is not one war, but a continuum of destruction, revenge and trauma.
The highlighted statement is certainly true! If we want to understand this latest conflict and see a path forward for everyone, "we need to be more honest, nuanced and comprehensive about the recent decades of history in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank."
That much is certainly true. It's also true that Hatuqa is placing her emphasis on the violence which has been experienced by Palestinians. Obviously, readers are free to dispute her assessments. Some did so in comments.
We may return to Hatuqa's column next week as we look at some of the conversations we've watched on blue tribe cable since October 7. For today, we thought we'd offer this suggestion:
The much longer and much larger war of which this war is only a part may be found in Hatuqa's own life story.
Dalia Hatuqa is a widely respected, widely published international journalist. Way back when, she offered a version of "my story" for the Times Literary Supplement, a London publication.
Here's part of the story she tells:
My father was born in Rihaniyeh in the Upper Galilee, one of two villages settled by Circassians, the indigenous people of the North Caucasus who met a cruel fate at the hand of tsarist Russia in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Around 1 million Circassians were killed and 1.5 million others expelled, making my ancestors "one of the first stateless peoples in modern history," according to Walter Richmond in The Circassian Genocide (2013).
In 1864 my great-grandfather, Zakaria, and his brother, Kol, fled their home in what is now the Black Sea resort of Sochi—then the Circassian capital—and eventually ended up in a small Palestinian village called Rihaniyeh. Growing up, I never learned the Northwest Caucasian dialect of our Abzakh tribe, but my siblings and I were taught about our homeland by my father. Of course we learned that we were Palestinians, but we also learned about Circassia, about how the twelve stars on our green flag represented the Circassian tribes, and how our people tenaciously resisted the imperial Russian army's takeover of the Caucasus region for a hundred years.
Approximately 90 per cent of the Circassian population now lives outside modern-day Russia...
Have you ever heard of Circassia itself, let alone of the Circassian genocide? For those who want an overview of the latter, the leading authority on the topic offers this thumbnail account:
Circassian genocide
The Circassian genocide, or Tsitsekun, was the Russian Empire's systematic mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and expulsion of 95–97% of the Circassian population, resulting in 1 to 1.5 million deaths during the final stages of Russo-Circassian War. The peoples planned for extermination were mainly the Muslim Circassians, but other Muslim peoples of the Caucasus were also affected. Killing methods used by Russian forces during the genocide included impaling and tearing the bellies of pregnant women as means of intimidation of the Circassian population. Russian generals such as Grigory Zass described the Circassians as "subhuman filth", and glorified the mass murder of Circassian civilians, justified their use in scientific experiments, and allowed their soldiers to rape women.
During the Russo-Circassian War, the Russian Empire employed a genocidal strategy of massacring Circassian civilians. Only a small percentage who accepted Russification and resettlement within the Russian Empire were completely spared. The remaining Circassian population who refused were variously dispersed or killed en masse. Circassian villages would be located and burnt, systematically starved, or their entire population massacred. Leo Tolstoy reported that Russian soldiers would attack village houses at night. William Palgrave, a British diplomat who witnessed the events, adds that "their only crime was not being Russian." In 1864, "A Petition from Circassian leaders to Her Majesty Queen Victoria" was signed by the Circassians requesting humanitarian aid from the British Empire. In the same year, mass deportation was launched against the surviving population before the end of the war in 1864 and it was mostly completed by 1867. Some died from epidemics or starvation among the crowds of deportees and were reportedly eaten by dogs after their death. Others died when the ships underway sank during storms.
There's much more information at the link we've provided.
According to Hatuqa's account of her family history, her great-grandfather fled the scene of this genocide and ended up in a small Palestinian village. Her father was born in that same village. She and her siblings grew up knowing that they were Palestinian, but also that they were part of the Circassian people.
Hatuqa's essay in the Times focuses on Israel, Gaza and the West Bank over the past several dozen years. It includes the kinds of information and claims you may not see discussed on blue or red cable shows.
As a general matter, American onlookers aren't asked to make assessments about the fairness of presentations like Hatuqa's. Quite often, we've never heard about the kinds of conduct Hatuqa describes in "the recent decades of history in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank," and we've certainly never seen such claims debated in respectful fashion by well-informed interlocutors.
Hatuqa's essay focuses on Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. Her family history is part of a much larger, wider story. It's also a partial history of our war-inclined species.
Human history didn't start a month ago, or even in 1948. Certain patterns emerge again and again. Sensible people will try to remember this:
There's no perfect way to describe the events of any particular episode.
There's no such thing as perfect assessment. Fair assessment is itself very, very hard.
Meanwhile, we have good news on climate change:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2023/11/some-good-news-on-climate-change
My fortune cookie says, “Mistakes are the portals of discovery.”
ReplyDeleteHappenstance is the circumstance of most successes and failures, but is obscured by those looking to benefit at the expense of others.
Delete"For those who want an overview of the latter, the leading authority on the topic offers this thumbnail account:"
ReplyDeleteHeh. Strong language from "the leading authority", wikipedia.
Does this leading authority describe the genocide of American Indians using the same language, or is it more nuanced on that topic? Inquiring minds want to know.
Also, watch The American Bison on PBS. It pulls no punches.
DeleteWhat about this stuff:
Deletehttps://www.globalresearch.ca/documents-point-israeli-army-1948-biological-warfare-against-palestinians/5796599
Is there a PBS show?
I dislike pro-Palestinian propaganda. The lies are vicious.
DeleteI dislike Islamophobs. They are morons.
DeleteTry the Ken Burns seroes about the Holocaust.
DeleteChristophobes are the worst.
Delete@7:06 PM
DeleteNow, that's the whole point. The Holocaust industry (and such) vs. the events of Nakba (like those described in the link above) disappeared into the Memory Hole.
The link above promotes conspiracy theories and myths and is not a valid source. The article talks about infectious bacteria found in wells, but it would be hard to find any well without some such bacteria. Claiming that Israelis put it there to poison Palestinians is the pernicious conspiracy theory being promoted by these guys. Note that "Globalization" has become a euphemism for a worldwide conspiracy of Jews.
DeleteThe reference to "Holocaust industry" suggests Holocaust denialism, which is a hallmark of antisemitic white supremacist garbage.
How has Somerby managed to attract this sort of troll to his comments? Perhaps by taking such a strong stand against Ungar-Sargon and others supporting Israel. Or maybe he earned the attendance with his own pro-Palestinian ideas.
The Brits, around the time of WWI, mistakenly thought both that there was a powerful worldwide cabal of Jews to exploit, and that they could rid Western society of Jews; this was the impetus behind promoting Zionism, which had little support among Jews.
DeleteThe result was that the majority of Jews now live in the US, and most of the rest live throughout the world, while a minority of Jews live in Israel under constant turmoil.
Zionists, backed by antisemites among the Brits and later the US, dispossessed nearly a million Palestinians, and forced them onto reservations, creating an ethnostate perpetrating apartheid. Such extreme oppression creates the conditions that lead to extreme and horrifying results, like the recent despicable Hamas attack.
Now we have over ten thousand innocent civilian Palestinians, half of whom were children, dead, killed in retaliation.
Some have noted the power imbalance between Israel and Palestine, similar to abuser and victim, the assymetry in violence. “Look what you made me do”, some have suggested Israel is saying.
The path to peace is in Israel assimilating the Palestinians as full and equal Israeli citizens, this path was progressing in the 90s until its leaders - Rabin and Arafat, were assassinated by right wingers, followed by Israel being captured by right wing political and cultural leaders hell bent on creating chaos in order to justify an ethnic cleansing genocide of Palestinians.
Israel is a manifestation of the ten thousand year long struggle between left and right; after ~100-300k years of living in mostly immediate-return egalitarian societies, humans transitioned to an agrarian society based on surplus and commodification. Humans are inherently egalitarian; being right wing is an emergent trait that is perpetuated by generational cycles and the unyielding knife’s edge circumstance of our current society.
Progress will not come from a revolution, history indicates this, but the slow grind of electoral politics, embracing the notion of harm reduction, understanding behavior through science, and the enhancement of tools via technological advancements.
At the end of WWII, the Palestinian Mandate was divided into Jordan, Syria, Israel and a distinct palestinian territory not part of Israel. Those nations, together with Egypt and Saudi Arabia immediately declared war on Israel. Had the Palestinians accepted their territory, this conflict would not have existed and Palestine could have worked toward statehood. Instead, they thought they could eliminate Israel. At each point since then, it has been Palestinians and Arabs blocking peace.
DeleteSomerby gives his readers no credit when he assumes that we have never heard of Circassia or the "kinds of conduct" described by Hatuqa, who he claims considers herself Palestinian.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, our species is not "war-inclined" as Somerby always claims. This sort of conflict is not general, but exceptional.
Notice how Hatuqa's great-grandfather settled down and made that Palestinian village his home. He did not engage in a never-ending terrorist war against the Russians who drove him out of Circassia.
Can one say that the Palestinians have done the same in the areas they have inhabited in the territories set aside for them in the Palestinian Mandate and later the Palestinian territories adjacent to Israel? Did they value peace and try to live normal lives there? Not so much. That they didn't follow that path is part of why this conflict continues. Hatuqa does not focus on that aspect, even of her own history.
Neither Somerby nor Hatuqa explain that the Palestinian territories were "encroached" upon at the end of several wars instigated by Arab nations with the intent of wiping out Israel. The territorial changes were negotiated at the ends of the 1948 war, the 1967 war, the 1973 war, and after the Intifada. All of these were lost by Arab nations and Palestinians, as has the latest conflict instigated by Hamas been lost and set back both the people in Gaza and the cause of peace.
Yes, the Netanyahu government has been extremist, but so is Hamas, and it should come as no surprise if Israelis are tired and have lost patience with Palestinians after this long history that didn't start yesterday and also did not start with the Israelis.
As far as I can tell, there is nothing Israel can do to end this conflict. There is certainly something the Palestinians can do. They can follow the lead of Hatuqa's great-grandfather and settle down peacefully as Palestinians in their territories and stop expecting Israel to magically go away.
And while we're at it, the Russians are now doing the same thing to Ukraine that it did to Circassia. I have seen Somerby express no concern about that and the right wing, in general, seems to be siding with Russia while our nation is officially allied with Ukraine and NATO. Crickets from Somerby about any of that.
Somerby subtly implies that the Israelis are like the Russians in their take-over and extermination of the Circassians. That is nothing like the truth and not the same at all. But the Russians are certainly like the Russians of the past.
Why would it surprise anyone that a Palestinian journalist would be unable to see anything but the Palestinian perspective in her work on this conflict? Somerby repeatedly calls her respected and words to boost her stature (and her political position). That is how propaganda works too. If he didn't like her essay, he would be calling her names, like he did Ungar-Sargon. That is easier than explaining why Hatuqa's one-sided perspective should earn respect in a two-sided conflict.
War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.
DeleteWar breeds manly men.
DeleteIt makes no difference what men think of war. War endures. May as well ask men what they think of stone.
Delete1:38 and 3:24 — are you a fan of Cormac McCarthy, or just quoting him without attribution?
DeletePeace is boring. War is exciting.
DeleteWar is God.
DeleteWar is peace.
DeleteCormac McCarthy: dorm room philosopher
Deletealso
Cormac McCarthy: not a geologist
Cormac McCarthy: linguistically gifted, cognitively challenged.
DeleteThe war began in 1948, the day Israel was founded. On that day, Israel's Arab neighbors began a war to wipe Israel off the map. Surprisingly, Israel wasn't defeated. But, the effort to wipe Israel off the map continues to this day.
ReplyDeleteThanks to far-sighted leaders, like Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump, Israel made peace with several neighboring countries. But, many neighboring countries remain totally committed to Israel's destruction. That's what the slogan "From the River ot the Sea" means.
To recapitulate: Israel's neighbors began war after war, terrorist attack after terrorist attack. The plight of the Palestinians arose out of a war in which Arab countries were the aggressors. Nevertheless, some gullible leftist in the US and Europe are convinced that Israel is to blame
Why did they want to wipe Israel off the map?
DeleteBecause their religion teaches them to hate Jews. Otherwise they might have wanted to wipe out Jordan or Syria, also created out of the Palestinian Mandate.
DeleteAn irony is that having Israel in the neighborhood can be a big benefit to Arab nations. Israel is advanced technically. nearby countries could take advantage of Israel's proximity to help develop their own technical expertise.
DeleteDavid, you're too kind to the untermenschen. Manual labor is all they're good for.
Delete
DeleteDavid insists on carrying the white man's burden.
David fights a never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way.
DeleteNo. David is a mild-mannered actuary.
DeleteAccording to David’s actuary tables, removing watermelon and fried chicken from our culture will result in Blacks leaving the country, and thus an end to racism.
DeleteOff topic - mh noted that I was quick to call out racism and antisemitism. Perhaps, that's because I and people close to me are personally affected. I encountered antisemitic discrimination when I applied to college. Today, my grandchildren face similar discrimination, this time because they're white. On some campuses, like Harvard, Jewish students are being attacked specifically because of being Jewish. Note that these attackers do not distinguish between Zionists and Jews. They blame all Jews for Israel's alleged misdeeds,
ReplyDeleteAs a Jew my career was limited by job discrimination. Fortunately, things had improved when I entered the job market. Jews 10 years older than I would not have been eligible for my career. Today, my grandson is discriminated against because he's white and male. It's not as severe as in the past. No jobs are totally closed to him. But, many jobs and promotions discriminate in favor of blacks and females.
How do you think black people feel?
DeleteBlack people feel good.
DeleteMy point is that David is quick to point out antisemitism, but when black people point out racism, they are condemned with no sense of cognitive dissonance by David.
DeleteHave you read the comment you're responding to, mh? 1:59 PM? To the end? Your 2:38 PM sounds weird.
DeleteObviously blacks people feel terrible. That is why I participated in civil rights demonstrations and donated thousands of dollars to civil rights organizations.
DeleteMy interest goes beyond complaining about racism. I am interested in actually improving the lives of black Americans. In some situations too big a focus on racism is discouraging beneficial actions that are separate from racism. E.g. providing alternatives to black students trapped in failing schools.
David in Cal
" Harvard, Jewish students are being attacked specifically because of being Jewish."
DeleteThat is horrible.
How do you know anyone was attacked (attacked how? physically?), at Harvard, of all places, for "being Jewish" and not for being an openly zio-symp? I'd like to see some evidence, if possible.
DeleteNeedless to say, an assault, for any reason, is a criminal act.
@4:22 look up Harvard Jews Attacked in a search engine. You will get plenty of hits
DeleteSo, just talk, no evidence.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID-13ZY1DWM
DeleteIt says that the confrontation started when a student tried to film protesters' faces. He was removed by organizers. Is that the horrible thing?
DeleteSome at Harvard aren’t taking things lying down, although a certain former Harvard prof is inclined to take things lying down, especially in an effort to bring about a positive climax to the issue at hand, albeit with a helping hand, so to speak, from a now deceased financier - interestingly both Jews, although there’s nothing wrong with that.
DeleteIf you look down you’ll see a surprise.
ReplyDeletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urFVsWlgS8I
When I look down, I’m always happily surprised my penis is bigger than I had thought.
DeleteYeah, but it’s actually a clitoris. You are spectacularly non-binary.
DeleteI have a name that more often than not is construed as Jewish. I went to college in the early 70's. My first year roommate was Jewish, chosen for me by the school, not likely by accident. I was "recruited" by a Jewish fraternity. Others along the way commonly have thought I was Jewish early in encounters. The discrimination stated to have been encountered by DIC back in the day, in college acceptance and the workplace, is so unusual as to raise questions. Now we come to find that his relatives have likewise been discriminated against for being white. I happen to know a lot of white people with children who have entered the workforce who do not complain about how disadvantaged being white, or male for that matter, has made them in the workforce. Perhaps DIC and his family have been singled out and persecuted. He has previously stated that as a Jew in a gentile workplace he was incentivized to work harder to prove himself. As an actuary. Such remarks typically are made in the context of DIC's perception of why blacks have not prospered; it seems he is a good role model for blacks. As in, they need to work harder to prove themselves to whites, like he did with the gentiles. Whatever.
ReplyDeleteThe Zionist right wing party headed up by Benjamin Netanyahu has been called out as apartheid and racist by Jewish Israelis, non Israelis that have lived in occupied territories, and others. These voices are easily accessed on the internet. Bernie Sanders, a Jew, has explicitly stated this in interviews and before Congress. His condemnation of the practices of the Israeli regime and the humanitarian disaster that is ongoing is far more critical of Israeli policy than was Obama referring to Palestinian life as "miserable". I take it, therefore, that we should label Bernie Sanders an antisemite, as DIC does Obama. Or do we we specifically reserve this judgement for blacks?
"Zionist" "Right wing" "apartheit" "racist" -- these are easy epithets to throw around. What do they mean? Are they true? Just because someone used these word doesn't mean I have to accept their label.
DeleteBefore 1948, "Zionist" meant someone who wanted to form a Jewish homeland. Now, that the homeland exists, the term "Zionist" is used by some as a pejorative way of saying "Jew". That is, for some people, all Jews are Zionists. This formulation goes along with those opponents of Israel who attack any Jews.
In the US, "rightwingers oppose socialized medicine. In Israel, all parties support socialized medicine. All parties support defense against Iran and other threatening countries. All parties favor negations. and peace agreements, such as the Abraham accords. IMO "rightwing" is another vague pejorative.
"apartheit" is ridiculous. Palestinians living in Israel have the same rights as Jews living in Israel. This is the opposite of the old South Africa or Rhodesia, where blacks were third class citizens.
"racist" is another free-floating pejorative. First of all Palestinians are white. Note that some Israeli Jews are black. More important, the laws of Israel treat , blacks, whites, Palestinians, and Jews the same.
Speaking of prejudice, one ought not ignore the glaring difference regarding homophobia. Palestinians severely punish or kill gay people. OTOH gays are fully accepted in Israel.
For some reason, people who are looking to disparage Israel and uphold the Palestinians often ignore this difference.
Palestinians severely punish or kill gay people.
DeleteJust like the guy you just elected Speaker of the House, 2nd in line to the presidency, wants to do. You've got some fucking balls, David.
Yeah, I call bullshit on the "white male" discrimination claim. I'm a white male, as is every one of my male relatives and nearly every male friend I've ever had.
DeleteI'm in my fifties. Neither I nor, as far as I know, they have ever once experienced any kind of discrimination. Dick in CA has a persecution complex. And anyone who STILL supports Trump after all the insanity we've seen from him and anyone who says some of the stupid shit Dick in CA has said on here over the years -- can you trust anything they say?
@4:56 PM
DeleteEver heard of "affirmative action"?
@4:52 You made a very serious accusation. Please provide evidence that your claim is accurate.
Delete1. that's not discrimination, no matter what your right-wing propagandists tell you
Delete2. I've never seen or known of it having any serious impact on my life the lives of white male family or friends. you have been propagandized, you poor persecuted white male. when are we poor white males going to catch a break?
@David in Cal 5:37 PM,
Deletewhat about you smearing a large group of people of all walks of life, who only have in common being indigenous to the territory that Zionists want to themselves?
@4:56 did you follow the lawsuit against Harvard and University of North Carolina? Evidence showed much lower standards for blacks to be admitted.
DeleteFuck you, David. Are you denying that Maga Mike wants to make it legal to discriminate against gays? Serious accusation? You mean like when your fucking party leader claims democrats support abortion after birth? That's pretty fucking serious too, David, you fucking fascist piece of shit.
DeleteNo, David, the lawsuit showed additional different standards were used that you don't approve of, you fucking racist piece of shit.
Deleteno, i didn't follow that lawsuit, because i don't have a persecution complex. i know that being a white male in this country will have no serious negative impact on my life. boo hoo, why couldn't we poor persecuted white males have been born as black women? damn you cruel fate!
DeleteThere is absolutely no evidence to date in the context of this blog that DIC has ever ventured out of the right wing silo he inhabits, bolstered by Powerline, Fox, and other such media outlets. When the war began I surveyed for reliable sources outside of our media, found the The Israeli Times and started reading Al Jazeera online. Years ago- probably 15 or so- I had friends who, being religious and admirers of Israel, visited and returned to describe being disappointed by what they considered the inhumane treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis, describing how day to day life appeared mired in unnecessary hardship imposed upon them. Chris Hedges, A NYT Middle East bureau chief for 7 years would affirm that these observations are accurate, having lived in Gaza. His commentaries are easily accessed. Moreover, I will not be taking DIC's definitions of Zionism, racism or other terms that he describes as pejorative with any seriousness. The Jewish/Israeli historian Ilan Pappes has discourses on why such terms apply to modern day Israel in interviews readily available online. They can be seen on You Tube. The cartoon that DIC portrays as Palestinians= bad and Israelis= good , and that commenting otherwise with the word "miserable" is antisemetic is the product of intellectual laziness at best and dishonesty at worst, but probably the result of both.
Delete@5:54 PM
DeleteWhat about the president announcing that his next nominee for the job of a supreme court justice will be a black woman? Is this not discrimination?
I realize that it doesn't affect you personally. But that's irrelevant.
no it's not discrimination. but i know how badly you want to believe it is
DeleteJohn Oliver on the Israel-Hamas war: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8
DeleteHe offers some counter arguments to the right-wing talking points DIC regurgitates.
Policies like affirmative action are a function of racial discrimination, not the other way around.
DeleteIt's particularly rich that a Jewish commenter with a long history of posts denigrating black culture and community should label as antisemitic the comment by Barack Obama that the lives of Palestinians are miserable.
DeleteUnamused -- we start with the fact that blacks, on average, lag whites in school by about 3 years. What causes the difference?
DeleteSaying it's genetic would obviously be racist. You say it would also be racist to attribute the gap to black culture and community. So, what's left? One possibility is to avoid mentioning the gap. That's actually what many people do. Another alternative is to attribute the gap to white racism. But there are several problems with that. (Number 3 is conclusive IMO):
1. There's no clear evidence or clear mechanism of just how white racism causes the gap.
2. Other discriminated-against groups do better than whites, e.g., Asians, Mormons, Jews.
3. Foreign born blacks do much better than American-born blacks, although both groups are subject to the same racism and discrimination.
4. Focusing on racism as the supposed cause doesn't lead to improvement.
Parents who do not have literacy skills cannot pass them on in the first five years of life. If they have no extra money their kids will not have enriched experiences (travel, museums, parks, pets, camp, lessons). They will have more health problems, perhaps hunger. They will not have good child care at home while parents work. More TV/video and less books, games, toys, less outdoor & imaginative play, less adult attention. Such deficits are cumulative. I know this has been explained to you before. Why does it not sink in?
DeleteThat Harvard/UNC lawsuit was brought by Asians who showed that your so-called disadvantaged white applicants were favored over scholastically superior Asians. Maybe when their wealthy white parents stop writing checks to Ivy League endowments that disparity will in part dissipate. Blacks make up 4% of the student body of the top decile of colleges and universities (ranked by future earnings). You being good with numbers and all that, do you think that fewer or greater than 4% of white students in those schools (including legacy, those with a leg up that graduate from expensive "feeder" prep schools, or those like Trump's son in law whose parents bought them spots) are there on merit? Let me help you with the math: roughly 25% of Yale students are legacy. But you like, for some reason, to claim that whites are discriminated against. You like to focus on black crime in the ghetto, for example. Well here's a little homework assignment for you: take a look at the racial profiles of CEOs of major wall street financial institutions whose greed led us into the recession of 2008. And I'm going to be generous and give you another clue: they weren't Black nor Asian, probably not a one of them.
DeleteJust for shits and grins, I googled "Thomas Sowell and Gay Rights".
DeleteHere is a sampling of his profound thoughts on the matter. Remember, David in Cal feels that Thomas Sowell would represent his politics better than the two current U.S. Senators from California.
SOWELL COLUMN INDICATES HOMOPHOBIA, NOT LOGIC
Columnist Sowell called homosexuality “a deathstyle in the AIDS era”
In his December 31 nationally syndicated column, which the Washington Times published January 5 as a “Commentary” column, economist Thomas Sowell claimed that rather than marriage rights, what “homosexual activists” really desire is “the stamp of acceptance on homosexuality, as a means of spreading that lifestyle, which has become a deathstyle in the AIDS era.”
Sowell continued: “They have already succeeded to a remarkable degree in our public schools, where so-called 'AIDS education' or other pious titles are put on programs that promote homosexuality.”
He also wrote that homosexual activists have received “special privilege” through equal-rights claims because "[t]hey have already got far more government money earmarked for AIDS than for other diseases that kill far more people."
Thomas Sowell is an @sshole, claims bullied gay teens are just "in vogue"
Meanwhile, the media are focused on bullying directed against youngsters who are homosexual. Gays are in vogue.
Most of the stories about the bullying of gays in schools are about words directed against them, not about their suffering the violence that has long been directed against Asian youngsters or about the failure of the authorities to do anything serious to stop black kids from beating up Asian kids.
[…]
But there is still a difference between words and deeds -- and it is a difference we do not need to let ourselves be stampeded into ignoring. The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees freedom of speech -- and, like any other freedom, it can be abused.
If we are going to take away every Constitutional right that has been abused by somebody, we are going to end up with no Constitutional rights.
[…]
Meanwhile, a law has been passed in California that mandates teaching about the achievements of gays in the public schools. Whether this will do anything to stop either verbal or physical abuse of gay kids is very doubtful.
But it will advance the agenda of homosexual organizations and can turn homosexuality into yet another of the subjects on which words on only one side are permitted. Our schools are already too lacking in the basics of education to squander even more time on propaganda for politically correct causes that are in vogue. We do not need to create special privileges in the name of equal rights.
And then DinC has the fucking balls to come here and proudly boast of how Israel is so liberal in its treatment of gays.
Sounds exactly right, perfect. Worth repeating, in bold:
Deletewhat “homosexual activists” really desire is “the stamp of acceptance on homosexuality, as a means of spreading that lifestyle, which has become a deathstyle in the AIDS era.”
Sowell continued: “They have already succeeded to a remarkable degree in our public schools, where so-called 'AIDS education' or other pious titles are put on programs that promote homosexuality.”
He also wrote that homosexual activists have received “special privilege” through equal-rights claims because "[t]hey have already got far more government money earmarked for AIDS than for other diseases that kill far more people."
Right, they want acceptance, just like in Israel, shithead.
Delete@6:15 PM "no it's not discrimination"
DeleteShould I assume, then, that if a government official had declared that he will only be hiring white men, that wouldn't be discriminatory either?
Please advise. Inquiring minds want to know.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@7:28 AM
DeleteSo, buggery in the privacy of your home does not satisfy you, shithead. You want to be able to do it publicly, preferably in front of children. Is that it?
This is the same Thomas Sowell who once explained to his admiring readers that the male:female wage gap was due to employers appropriately accounting for inefficiencies in the way that females work, compared with males.
DeleteWow. Based on these quotes, it's hard to ignore that Thomas Sowell is suffering from a terrible case of economic anxiety.
Delete@7:31 is so desperate to hold on to his dumb argument (to own the libs I guess) that he ignores all context and the normal use of language. Adorable
DeleteCare to elaborate, Adorable?
DeleteThis blog ain't nuthin' but Stormfront Lite. Take it and shove it.
ReplyDeleteDon Black’s existence suggests God entertains irony from time to time.
DeleteGod is omnipotent, omniscient, omnironic.
DeleteThe Middle East and Eastern Europe have been full of ethnic hatreds for hundreds of years. World War 2 and the conflict in the Middle East do nothing to soothe ethnic hatreds. The people of these regions obviously don't care, and neither do a lot of people in the United States as shown by Donald Trump's popularity. One's problems are the fault of other people and so resentmernts are stoked that do not get us anywhere close to peace.
ReplyDeleteFrom Decoding Fox News:
ReplyDelete"What the PBS NewsHour Covered that Fox News Ignored
3/29/22 - In Israel a gunman killed at least five people in a Tel Aviv suburb today. The third deadly attack in a week. Cell phone video showed a man with an assault weapon running into the street and opening fire before he was killed by the police. Israeli reports said he was a Palestinian. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
3/31/22 - Israeli forces killed at least two Palestinians today in the occupied West Bank. Shooting erupted when troops entered a refugee camp. Hunting suspects in Tuesday's killing of five people in Israel. Afterward, Palestinians marched in a funeral procession. And the militant group Islamic Jihad announced a mobilization of its fighters. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/11/22 - Israeli forces have killed a fourth Palestinian in 24 hours. It happened last night near Bethlehem in the West Bank. Troops said they fired on a man who threw a firebomb. Hundreds of people marched in the funeral today. It followed a spate of Palestinian attacks that killed 14 Israelis in recent weeks. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/12/22 - In Israel. Police say an officer shot and killed a Palestinian man who stabbed him at a security check early today. It was the latest in a spate of deadly confrontations. Israeli forces also confirmed that they've arrested 20 suspects across the occupied West Bank. The raids follow attacks in Israel that have killed 14 people.(via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/14/22 - In the Middle East Palestinians say Israeli troops shot and killed two Palestinians in the West Bank in a new wave of violence. It happened in the city of Jenin. Israeli officials said soldiers returned fire after Palestinians shot at them. At least 24 Palestinians and 14 Israelis have been killed since the Muslim holy month of Ramadan began.(via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/15/22 - Palestinian youths battled Israeli police in Jerusalem today after days of growing violence. More than 150 Palestinians were injured. From the early hours, Palestinians gathered at the Al-Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem at the site sacred to both Muslims and Jews. They began throwing fireworks and stones. After three weeks of growing violence, they'd been urged to defend both the mosque and their country by the Palestinian Foreign Ministry. As Israeli police moved in. They came under a hail of rocks and rubble. More than 150 people were injured, some carried away on stretchers. While the violence is contained, rioters used screens and folded chairs as makeshift shields as the police fired tear gas and stun grenades. In a week when qRamadan, Passover and Easter, all coincide. Tensions have been running high. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/18/22 - Israeli forces intercepted a rocket fired from Gaza today, the first in seven months. It marked a new escalation after days of growing violence. Hours earlier, Israeli troops shot and wounded two more Palestinians in a village near Janine in the occupied West Bank. The Israelis said the soldiers fired when Palestinians threw rocks and explosive devices. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/19/22 - Palestinian protesters confronted Israeli troops today after they let thousands of Israelis march to a demolished West Bank settlement. Palestinian paramedics said at least eight protesters were hit by rubber bullets or tear gas canisters. In recent weeks, 26 Palestinians and 14 Israelis have died in rising violence. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
Cont.
Delete4/21/22 - Violence escalated in the Middle East as Palestinian militants fired rockets into southern Israel overnight while Israeli aircraft bombed targets in Gaza. At Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa mosque, Israeli forces fired tear gas and rubber bullets during dawn prayers. Palestinians threw rocks and Molotov cocktails. Tensions boiled over as Muslim and Jewish worshipers visited the holy site for Ramadan and Passover. (via transcript PBS broadcast)
4/22/22 - Tensions remained high in Jerusalem today as violence broke out at the Al-Aqsa mosque for the seventh time in eight days. Palestinian youths threw rocks and fireworks at the gate where Israeli police were stationed. The Israeli police then stormed the mosque and fired stun grenades to clear the compound. Medics said more than two dozen Palestinians were wounded. The violence ended hours later, allowing thousands of Muslims to attend midday prayers. (via transcript PBS broadcast)..."
Since this blog used to be about watchdogging the press, how is it doing on this war?
ReplyDeleteBob pointed out some pretty ugly grandstanding on the Israeli side, while acknowledging tempers are at a high pitch. But does Bob sticking to but a few examples suggest he only LOOKS at a few examples, and that’s why he had to abandon his original purpose for selective moralizing?
The attack on Israel by Hamas appears to be part of a proxy war on the US, accompanied by direct attacks on US service members deployed in the Middle East:
ReplyDelete"Washington Post: “A surge in attacks on deployed U.S. forces has roiled some within the Defense Department, where officials, frustrated by what they consider an incoherent strategy for countering the Iranian proxies believed responsible, acknowledge the limited retaliatory airstrikes approved by President Biden have failed to stop the violence.”
“As the attack count has continued to climb, so too has the concern that it is a matter of time before one claims a U.S. service member’s life.”
Why does the US have forces in the Middle East?
DeleteHave you been asleep a while?
DeleteTerrorism is wrong, no matter how right the cause. The Palestinians engage in terrorism and innocent people get killed and injured. No amount of misery in Gaza justifies that.
You didn’t tell me why the US has forces in the Middle East.
DeleteTo maintain its settler-colony in Palestine.
DeleteMore generally, imperial geopolitical interests, projection of power on the global scale. Same purpose as for the US forces in Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea, the Balkans. Etc.
Does the colony in Palestine support US imperial power or undermine it?
DeleteAn aside to be sure (or maybe it isn’t), if you’re interested in a free colon cleanse, try some Israeli tabbouleh on Shabbat.
DeleteHere’s a clean colon.
Delete:
Are you kidding? How can it undermine US imperial power? It creates chaos, turmoil in the region, a large and very important region. It creates troubles that the US can easily direct and control. It's a great tool.
Delete"Certain patterns emerge again and again. "
ReplyDeleteIt is the nature of human thought that we detect patterns and we tend to superimpose patterns even where they may not exist. Somerby trite idea that history repeats, ignores that each time it "repeats" it is with uniqueness that makes it a mistake to assume we know what is happening in each instance without studying it closely.
And Trump is Calling for a Final Solution:
ReplyDeletehttps://digbysblog.net/2023/11/19/dont-look-now-but-trumps-calling-for-a-final-solution/
I think overstatements like that actually help Trump.
DeleteThe use of sarcasm, disingenuous overstatement , whataboutism and thought terminating cliches are powerful and work to a certain extent but I think Democrats have relied too heavily on these tactics. We'll see in 12 months.
DeleteHow does this disingenuous overstatement by Digby help anything?
DeleteHow can it be Digby’s overstatement when it was Trump who said it?
DeleteIt's her overstatement because he didn't say it.
DeleteDemocrats are in huge trouble against him next year, you would think their influential advocates would consider being frank about it and addressing what he really says directly. That would be a better tactic at this point. How can people think Democrats are genuine when in examples like this - they are not being genuine? Do you see what I'm saying?
DeleteHow does a bullshit overstatement like this help anything? It makes Dems look like bullshitters when they bullshit like this. It's bad. Being frank and real is a better tactic.
DeleteIn a statement by Trump where he talks about fake news, Digby takes what he says and purposefully and disingenuously misquotes him. How can that be a good idea?
Delete"How does a bullshit overstatement like this help anything?"
DeleteIt might affect some low-info low-IQ people.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
Go watch the video of Trump saying it.
Delete"It might affect some low-info low-IQ people"
DeleteHow?
Sarcasm, overstatement, thought-terminating cliches and trite non- answers have become so deeply ingrained in Democratic party intercourse, it's almost as if they have forgotten how to be direct, honest and candid about anything. Especially about their opponents and their own political position. It's not a strong position to be in. At this point it may be enormously debilitating.
DeleteOne of Trump's clever tricks is to use provocative words, because then his statements will be widely repeated. Many on the right are concerned about the so-called Deep State, the communists, the globalists, etc. DeSantis may well agree with Trump on these issues, but his stand is not publicized the way Trump's stand is.
DeleteBut it may work out fine. It's a very strong tactic to use and works really well in circumstances. I just think Democratic party advocated have overused it to the point where it has lost its power and may even become debilitating, maybe seriously debilitating, like the Sorcerer's Apprentice.
DeleteI am a low-info low-IQ troll, and that stuff doesn’t affect me.
DeleteSeeing influential Democratic Party advocates deliberately misrepresent a quote wherein Trump talks about fake news seems unwise af.
DeleteDigby quotes Trump directly, accurately, and in context.
DeleteIt is the height of naïveté to suppose Trump does not threaten our democratic systems and institutions, it’s a prime motivator for citizens to go out and vote, as they did a couple of weeks ago when Dems had a big win over Republicans.
Holding a 21-19 majority in the Senate and a 51-49 majority in the House isn't really a big win.
DeleteAnd that is not a direct quote from Digby. Saying it is is bullshit. Why do you bullshit?
If Trump threatens our democratic systems and institutions why bullshit about it with sarcastic misquotes that misrepresent the substance of what he is saying? If Trump threatens our democratic systems and institutions why say he is calling for a Final Solution, as if he is calling for mass murder? That's bullshit. Why not directly address what he is talking about?
Hey, if you think that is an accurate quote and Democrats are making big wins, I hope you're right. I don't see it that way. But I could be totally wrong. I smell total disaster for Democrats in the next year. But what do I know?! :)
Delete“One of Trump's clever tricks is to use provocative words, because then his statements will be widely repeated.”
DeleteSure. Words like “vermin”, “thugs”, “left wing”, “root out.” Just provocative stuff. But harmless, right David? Because words don’t really matter, except as provocation and publicity. Surely Trump is just a good guy, deep down. Aside from being a sociopath, according to Bob…
And if trump is so clever for saying things like this, then why shouldn’t Democrats do the same? Biden could say he wants to root out the fascist extremist right wing vermin thugs who want to use government to enrich themselves and steal money from the working man to give to their plutucrat buddies, ending social security and Medicare, who slavishly follow a sociopathic nutcase whose main goal is to punish anyone who gets on his way and become dictator for life.
Just some provocative words like that. So they will get repeated. You know? It would make Biden look energetic, amirite?
There’s no shame in ignorance. Digby quoted Trump directly, and the Dems had a recent big win. If these facts trigger you, you’re likely a right wing troll and/or ignorant and thus gaining an advantage from the free education being provided.
DeleteRight wing ignorance has various sources, but a root cause is traumatic suffering leading one to becoming a tragic and wounded lost soul.
Such folks won’t be persuaded, their brains lack that capability, but they are human and certainly deserving of pity.
6:51 You are gaslighting. Gaslighting can also a strong and effective tactic but it is starting to fall flat after being employed so regularly these last 7 years. It may become a huge liability due to its overuse. We'll see. I have a bad feeling about it.
DeleteDid Trump use the words "final solution"?
DeleteIf Trump took a shit on stage, David would applaud him for being clever. David is a fucking fascist piece of shit.
Delete7:00 and then hilariously 7:01, it’s not “gaslighting” to call out your bad faith nonsense. I’ll appreciate your efforts when they include a coherent counterpoint.
DeleteAs it stands, Digby quoted Trump accurately, and the Dems had a huge win recently over Repubs - continuing a trend since 2018 and a longer trend of dominating the popular vote, their voters motivated in large part by Trump’s attack on democracy at the expense of the working class and those oppressed by the boot of right wingers obsessed with dominance.
You’ll be triggered to respond with sputtering hate-spewing, but it’s to your detriment, not mine.
"One of Trump's clever tricks is to use provocative words, because then his statements will be widely repeated"
DeleteThis trick's cleverness depends on the effect of the repetition. It seems to safe to say at this point that it ingratiates him with the Republican base but alienates him from the numerically larger rest of the country, which is why Trump Republicans keep losing elections.
7:24 PM
DeleteIt is bad faith to call a misquote of Trump accurate. He didn't say "Final solution", which is supposed to imply mass murder to the rubes. I get that it feels good.
It would be crazy if Trump won again. It seems impossible. I have a bad feeling about it. But I could lack the capability to understand the issue because of a tragic and wounded lost soul due to traumatic suffering. That could be true as well.
Wishing you the best.
Would Trump be satisfied with a Temporary Solution?
DeleteWith Trump it would have to be a Shambolic Solution.
Delete
DeleteLow-info, low-IQ Democrats need an excuse to get outraged. After maintaining their idiotic outrage for years, old excuses stop working, and new, stronger ones need to be invented. That's all.
Yes, I agree. Trump uses one word in a speech and they try to make people think it means he is going to mass murder them.
DeleteIt's a part of an obsession to not have to beat him politically, to beat him through other means, in this case alarmism.
I'm still surprised at how cowardly and low-IQ the bloggers are.
I really think next fall is going to be Sorcerer's Apprentice time for them. It's going to be so ugly. But maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. I hate Trump.
There is no place for hatred in this beautiful blog.
DeleteIf you absolutely must, you should express it in the form of virtue signaling. "I'm concerned that another Trump presidency will destroy our democracy." Is it too much to ask?
So Trump didn't say he fully supports reparations for slavery?
DeleteThat's great news for him, if he wants to keep his base of Republican voters. I know this, because I took Somerby's suggestion to heart and actually listened to Republican voters. Give it a try, yourselves.
8:32,
DeleteIf you haven't tried de-moralizing Republican voters by telling them that Trump supports reparations to blacks for slavery, you're missing out on a LOT of fun. It hits them right in their "economic anxiety". For some reason, it drives them crazier than his HUGE tax break for the rich and corporations. Which, by the way, didn't drive them crazy in the least.
The Trump quote at Digby's site is a bit murkier then the one where Trump openly admitted he's a serial sexual predator.
DeleteRep. Dan Goldman (D-NY): "He [Trump] has to be eliminated".
DeleteLet outrage ensue!
...three, two, one... ... What, nothing?
"Yesterday on TV, I mistakenly used the wrong word to express the importance for America that Donald Trump doesn't become President again.
DeleteWhile he must be defeated, I certainly wish no harm to him and do not condone political violence.
I apologize for the poor choice of words."
Rep. Daniel Goldman
Now go fuck off, troll boy.
Freudian slip.
DeleteWent over to the Digby site to find the Trump quote discussed above and got sidetracked by the post titled "The richest man in the world needs to STFU". About 2/3 way in is an excerpt from an Ezra Klein introduction to a talk given by a Rabbi. The introduction is the best explanation for the generational differences in perception of Israel that I have read; makes perfect sense.
ReplyDeleteThere is a link to the interview with Rabbi Sharon Bous in the Digby post noted above, in which she gives a humanity -affirming and beautiful description of what her faith means and how it relates to the current Israel.
ReplyDelete