WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 2024
But also, Fox & Friends conquers Wisconsin: It's very, very hard to believe the culture change which has been engineered under cover of darkness at the Fox News Channel.
We're so old that we can remember when "family values" was the hook for American conservative movement and for its figurehead news org.
That was then and this is now. Last night, the channel's silliest and stupidest boy was at it all over again.
We're speaking here of a very silly, very dimwitted, very undergrown child. The segment in question aired during last night's 8 o'clock hour on Jesse Watters Primetime.
You can watch the segment in question just by clicking here. Upon arrival, you'll find this stupid thumbnail description of the important interview session:
Meet the reformed Amish stripper
Former Amish community member Naomi Schwartzentruber talks to 'Jesse Watters Primetime' about her transition from the plain sect to risque work.
This is a silly and stupid child, but one who hides behind an extremely slippery comic persona. His deeply important interview segment started off like this:
WATTERS (4/23/24): In my book, Get It Together, people from all walks of life opened up to me. They shared their deepest life stories and some of their most insane secrets.
But just because we finished the book doesn't mean the Get It Together series is over. Today, we're talking to a reformed Amish stripper! Meet Naomi Naomi Schwartzentruber...
The silly child continues from there with his deeply thoughtful human exploration.
Presumably, the sheer stupidity of such "cable news" presentations pretty much speaks for itself. Then too, we have the cultural switch, in which this channel abandoned "family values" for a culture of leering and extremely dimwitted sexual prurience with a very strong wannabe element.
The finer people at the finer news orgs fail to report on such nonsense as this. Then too, there was the remarkable interview we saw this very morning on the channel's clownishly propagandistic morning show, the long-running Fox & Friends.
Early in today's 6 o'clock hour, Lawrence Jones, the program's newly anointed fourth friend, was shown on tape pretending to conduct an interview with two young women in Wisconsin.
This appalling pseudo-interview showcased a separate part of Fox News culture:
We refer to the refusal, or perhaps the inability, of its robotized propagandists to hear what other people are saying; their refusal or inability to see what's standing right there before them; and their refusal or inability to appreciate the fact that legitimate viewpoints which they don't share may actually exist among the many good, decent people of this very large world.
In a word, the pseudo-interview conducted by Jones was appalling. In our view, mother-frumper should take his myopia back to Texas and learn how to stifle his roll.
We'll plan to walk you through this ridiculous session tomorrow. If you want to take a look for yourself, the imitation of life starts right here.
For today, we'll leave you with this:
The finer people at the finer news orgs avert their gaze from these garbage dumps. No one wants to battle with Fox. No one wants to report on the channel's deeply stupid and broken-souled culture while letting their readers decide.
In certain respects, MSNBC is moving this way. We offer that as a warning.
One final point:
Traditionally, "stupid" hasn't been a category in our nation's press criticism. Serious people need to find a way to move past the reluctance to employ that critical term.
Stupid is as Stupid persistently does. Mother Gump said that!
ReplyDelete"In a word, the pseudo-interview conducted by Jones was appalling."
You could, instead, watch Tucker Carlson's interviews on his website, or on telegram. Or, plenty of good stuff on Rumble. It's certainly better than all the stuff you choose to watch. Hey, it's your choice. No one to blame but yourself.
Will Tucker explain why he jumped the line to get his COVID vaccine, before those who were much more immune compromised?
Delete"The finer people at the finer news orgs avert their gaze from these garbage dumps. No one wants to battle with Fox. No one wants to report on the channel's deeply stupid and broken-souled culture while letting their readers decide."
ReplyDeleteThe business of news organizations is to report the news. Does another outlet's behavior qualify?
I'd say that the problem isn't so much that other news organizations "avert their gaze" from Fox as Our Host says. I'd say that Fox's smutty behavior simply isn't news as news is generally defined.
"The business of news organizations is to report the news. Does another outlet's behavior qualify?"
DeleteI think that's an excellent question. I think TDH from its inception has been arguing that the answer is "Yes!" and bemoaning the media's failure to report on itself.
I mean, why is there an omerta among media outlets?
DeletePP, you have bought into Somerby’s nonsense. MSNBC frequently reports on Fox, for example their election lies. They DON’T report on Gutfeld calling Biden “poopypants.” Is that a problem?
Delete"PP, you have bought into Somerby’s nonsense."
DeleteYes, I have. I gather that you haven't. So why do you read him? I'm genuinely curious. (Unless you're the Anon who wants to save libs from Putin-funded disinformation, in which case I really don't want to hear about it.)
PP, it is a reality of all forms of media that space is limited and it costs money to produce content. That may change with AI, but right now, print editions and video are both limited in how much they can present and what it costs to do so. The internet less so, but there are still limits to reader/viewer attention and the costs to produce. This imposes a reality on every single media outlet -- if you are going to devote time and resources to one story, it comes at the cost of other choices that might have been made instead. Stories serve a purpose, which is attracted eyeballs to read ads (or subscribe for money). All outlets must choose the content that will maximize $ and attract more views and not waste resources or cost money. Criticizing other news outlets tends to be an insider topic that very few readers know anything about or care about, so it is not good for the bottom line. And if you criticize those other outlets (declare war on them), they will attack back, which may result in a loss of viewers and $. And, as noted elsewhere, such critiques or attacks are not part of the function that news outlets serve because the performance of journalists is not NEWS at all. The only exception is if a paper were a trade paper covering the news industry, in which case it would largely only be read by other journalists and not attract the general public at all. Trade papers do not have wide circulation and serve those who sell things to newspapers, not the public. Trade papers are usually even less critical and more cautious than another type of outlet would be. Something would need to become news in order to escape those pages.
DeleteI've explain that here several times to Somerby. He doesn't read his comments, so he just keeps repeating the same stupid complaint over and over. It is tiresome and it makes him look very stupid.
@4:12 says that MSNBC does address FOX reporting and it is true that they do it by focusing on the misinformation and the issue itself, not by calling Gutfeld names. Beyond this, in campaigning it has been true that negative ads (those criticizing an opponent) tend not to find favor with voters. They will deter people from voting from someone, if a big enough issues and one that is true in a non-partisan way (someone embezzles money and flees the country). Calling someone a poopyhead in a campaign is regarded as distasteful campaigning and may creat sympathy for the candidate. So using negative attacks on someone doesn't always work the way you would expect, unless it is something big and it wasn't you saying it (in the general press). That may be part of why Biden has told his staff not to say anything about Trump's trials.
It seems to me that your response largely begs the question. You say "the performance of journalists is not NEWS," but that is the question - why isn't it news?
DeleteYou also say that a news program would not make money if it criticized other programs, which might explain why they DON'T do it, but it doesn't tell us whether they SHOULD do it or not.
Pied Piper, it might help you understand this better if you were to rewatch the old film Broadcast News. As depicted, the ethics of journalists making themselves part of the story (instead of reporting events separate from themselves) is a main theme of the movie. It explains why Maureen Dowd's mean girl style of editorial is considered opinion and not journalism. Journalists are explicitly trained to keep themselves and their biases, experiences, concerns, out of the news report to the extent that they are reporting hard news (not social interest features or first-person experiences or personal interviews).
DeleteAs an example, when NPR editor Uri Berliner wrote an editorial exposing his employer for things he considered to be examples of bias, he made the news outlet itself the focus of his editorial (not news) and himself the focus of what he was writing, since these were his reactions to other staff work. That's why he was suspended and ultimately resigned. It was not his job to critique his own paper and his opinions were not news but generated a controversy that was harmful to NPR (regardless of the opinions he expressed). By doing so, he betrayed the trust of his coworkers by revealing inside info that they had no opportunity to refute or review in advance, abusing his insider position at NPR.
The reason why someone SHOULD maintain objectivity by keeping themselves out of their reporting is that it results in a more balanced and fair description of the facts for readers, who may or may not share whatever views or biases the writer might otherwise divulge if less objective. Facts can be determined to be supported or unsupported by evidence (or attribution to a witness or interviewee), but a reporter's opinions cannot be verified. There is a gray area where the opinions of a reporter writing about themselves are evidence of that reporter's persona, but when someone becomes enough of a celebrity to be interesting or of concern to readers, they should stop being reporters because they lose professionalism and thus credibility. More sophisticated readers care about such things. The average reader may not, and thus could be harmed by the lack of objectivity to the extent that they are unaware of it and its implications.
If a staff member had a concern about their organization's reporting, they should take it to their boss and up the chain of command, as in any organization. If there were suspicion of wrongdoing that were serious enough, they would be protected by whistleblower laws. A difference of opinion over partisan views doesn't fit that description. If a publication were slanted, the bias would be a matter for readers to decide about. If the concern were that facts were untrue, then that is a matter for those affected to pursue using libel laws. They would have to prove malice because journalists strive to be objective and get things as right as they possibly can. So someone would have to demonstrate that they weren't following their professional ethics in order win a libel suit. Making a mistake isn't enough.
Delete"I think TDH from its inception has been arguing that the answer is 'Yes!'"
DeleteThat way lies madness. If outlets like Fox are dishonest about how they report on Congress, how honestly do you think they'd cover, say, NPR or NBC? The moment another outlet called out Fox for their smirking gutter misogyny, they'd retaliate with slanders. The entire exercise would devolve into a filthy pissing match within two weeks.
QiB - That‘s a bleak assessment. If other media outlets are the only institutions free from media scrutiny, then the implication might be that the ethos of journalism will “die in darkness.”
DeleteYou can get that from a media criticism blog. You might want to stop wasting your time at TDH, and pursue one of them instead.
Delete"We're speaking here of a very silly, very dimwitted, very undergrown child."
ReplyDeleteWhy does Somerby excuse the behavior of these right wing miscreants by referring to grown men as children or dimwitted or undergrown? Why does Somerby not think that these men should be held accountable for their adult choices to do what they do? They are responsible.
Our society tends to forgive children because they do not have full control of their circumstances and because they are not fully developed and will hopefully grow and change as they mature, especially if helped to do so. There is no chance that will happen with the miscreants at Fox. Their behavior is motivated, not circumstantial or reactive. They are as developed as anyone else at their ages and not likely to improve with time. Our society holds such people to be responsible for their actions, full participants whose choices matter and will affect others, and thus are punishable if they harm others.
Somerby never holds anyone accountable for anything, not even himself, but especially not the people he is carrying water for. I think that when Somerby writes this kind of thing, he assumes partial responsibility for the wrongdoing of those he has excused, because he could have opposed them and instead let them off the hook.
I would expect Cecelia to defend these guys, but is Somerby another right wing shill, like her? His behavior says yes yes while his lying lips say "I'm a liberal and I'm voting for Biden." At least Cecelia doesn't tell lies about her politics, whatever else she may lie about off-screen.
Anonymouse 3:33pm, I’m not sure what you’re saying I’m lying about, cravenly defending, or otherwise doing what even Bob is too good to do and/or I am doing what is NOT as bad as what Bob does.
DeleteWhat I do know for sure is that you’re a predictable and none-too-swift bore.
gibberish is not opinion
DeleteAnonymouse 7:56pm, then quit spouting it.
Delete"I know you are but what am I?" was cute when PeeWee Herman said it, but you aren't him.
DeleteThis is gibberish: "Anonymouse 3:33pm, I’m not sure what you’re saying I’m lying about, cravenly defending, or otherwise doing what even Bob is too good to do and/or I am doing what is NOT as bad as what Bob does."
So is this: "Just like we get astronomical fees and penalties against Trump in a crime where no one was defrauded. We even get why Tara Reid thinks Russia might be the only place she’s safe. Aftersll, you are now the political constituency that wants whistleblowers against intelligence agencies locked up forever and a day.
So, yeah, I’ll have the temerity to think that so far in this case, we haven’t seen any There there. You can.spend your time being the second coming of Tailgunner Joe on steroids, loaded down with a few internal passengers by the name of Legion."
There may be some right-wing speak shorthand there, but you are on a blog where we don't speak that, so you need to explain your slogans.
Right-wing speak always deciphers to "I play with my feces".
DeleteIs it a coincidence that Fox and Somerby are both going to be talking about reformed strippers just when Trump's Stormy Daniels trial begins to present evidence?
ReplyDeleteIn case neither Somerby nor Fox mentions it, this may be relevant to a discussion of these girls' behavior:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
"The Amish, a subsect of the Anabaptist Christian movement, intentionally segregate themselves from other communities as a part of their faith. For Amish youth, the Rumspringa normally begins at age 16 and ends when a youth chooses either to be baptized in the Amish church or to leave the community.[3]: 10–11 For Wenger Mennonites, Rumspringa occurs mostly between ages of 17 and 21.[4]: 169–173, 244
Not all Amish use this term (it does not occur in John A. Hostetler's extended discussion of adolescence among the Amish), but in sects that do, Amish elders generally view it as a time for courtship and finding a spouse.[3]: 14 A popular view exists by which the period is institutionalized as a rite of passage, and the usual behavioral restrictions are relaxed, so that Amish youth can acquire some experience and knowledge of the non-Amish world."
I assume the adults here will know the difference between working as a stripper (exotic dancer?) and the work Stormy Daniels did at various stages of her career in the porn industry (where she occupied different roles).
ReplyDeleteThis is what actual media criticism looks like with respect to the Trump trial. It comes from Noah Berlatsky at Public Notice:
ReplyDelete"Fox News personality Jesse Watters spent the early days of former president Donald Trump’s New York trial attacking and trying to discredit the jury. That’s not surprising — Watters is an unscrupulous MAGA sycophant.
What’s less inevitable, however, is that mainstream media outlets helped Watters to do his worst. Credible reporters have published personal details about potential jurors and have generally treated juror selection as a breathless gossip beat rather than as part of a serious trial with major repercussions for American democracy Judge Juan Merchan, overseeing the case, had to warn media not to report on past or current employment of members of the jury.
Journalists can be an important check on those with power. Trump’s trial, though, is serving as an illustration of how an unthinking press can be weaponized by authoritarians and authoritarian movements to target everyday people and weaken democratic institutions.
It’s also a reminder that Trump’s New York trial for hush money payments and false business filings is itself in part about Trump’s relationship with tabloids and the press. It was those relationships which helped him to silence critics and avoid consequences while he clambered into the White House. And it’s those relationships which will be crucial to his campaign if he’s to win again."
As Berlatsky points out, a responsible analysis of media contribution to this trial would note that it is about misuse and collusion with the media to manipulate an election. That's why the first witness was Pecker, head of the National Enquirer, which is tabloid press and very definitely part of the media.
If Somerby cared about the media and were any kind of critic or analyst, wouldn't he point out the way in which the press HELPED Trump and the MAGAs and his legal team during this trial? Somerby appeared to be too busy helping Trump himself, to focus on what the press was doing.
This is why Somerby's claim to be a media critic is such a farce. And those trolls who come here and claim that Somerby's claim to be being such a critic must be taken literally are themselves a joke.
As we follow the testimony by Pecker, it behooves us to wonder who else was in Trump's bag and how else he used the press to win in 2016. And what he has been doing since then with press allies. We perhaps assume that his only helpers are Fox, but how much help can Trump buy with his billions from other outlets, including NY Times? Those favorable editorials and anti-Biden age stories don't place themselves in front of voters' eyes. MSNBC almost hired Ronna McDaniel!
This is what actual media criticism looks like to you because it aligns with your opinions.
DeleteNo, it is because it actually focuses on how the media is covering Trump, how it participated in his campaign, and not just on dinging Lisa Rubin for being female or some such crap.
DeleteAn unrelenting focus at Fox News has been the buffoonish impeachment inquiry into Biden, and the Hunter Biden nothingburger. Somerby never mentions any of this, or attacks Fox for it, but instead relates the most puerile bullshit from Watters or Gutfeld, as if the msm is supposed to find their childishness newsworthy.
ReplyDeleteBob did try to grant the right all the credit he could on the hunt for Hunter, much as Bill Maher did. They finally shut up about it as the whole thing basically fell apart.
DeleteAnti-Semitism on campus and in the streets is the inevitable monster that is the natural consequence of decades of leftist grievance indoctrination, creation of victim mentality mental illness, anti-white racism. It's the cause of Gen Z and here to stay. So much progressing!
ReplyDeleteA lot of money and activist attention has been paid to the Palestinian cause for decades. I agree with 4:54 because I saw this myself during my career as a grad student, postdoctoral fellow, researcher and professor at several different campuses. At the time, I thought such activities were being funded by Palestinian immigrants on behalf of their families in the Middle East (much like the concurrent protests about the Armenian Genocide on California campuses), but given these upheavals, I wonder whether there were no other interested parties funding this in order to promote foreign interests that have now come to the forefront. I wish such lobbying of students were not permitted, but it is considered a free speech issue (unlike the recruiting done by Scientologists or tobacco companies). I believe this was not promoted by leftists but became a leftist cause via the original propagandizing. Now I see it as similar to the SDS and anti-war organizing during the 1960-70s on campuses. My hope is that if the war is addressed, the kids can go back to supporting PETA. Meanwhile, I think campuses should address the misuse of student passion by outside organizations in general. I don't see how that is good for anyone when it consists of unaddressed disinformation and propagandizing of young people at a vulnerable time in their lives (away from family and high school friends and perhaps lonely and looking for social support network). This is the time when White Supremacists and cults do recruiting among students too.
DeleteAnonymouse 4:54pm, there’s reports that are shocking as to the level of antisemitism and anti-American thinking in these protests. It’s sparked so much fear among Jews on campuses and just out on the street.
DeleteI can guarantee this- it will all be down the memory hole by fall of this year. It will be as nonexistent and imaginary as Antifa and the violence as done by leftists during the Summer of Love. It will be rightwing antisemitism and hate that was the problem.
There have been huge increases in anti-semitism in the US, but they have been coming from white supremacist groups. What has your side been doing about controlling its extremist members? Inquiring Minds Want to Know.
DeleteYour comment about Summer of Love (1967) is exceedingly odd. What did hippies do? Did you even watch Woodstock?
Lots of free-speech warriors are upset with the free-speech being used on college campuses, because they don't agree with what is being said.
DeleteHere is another example of what can happen when Republicans irresponsibly push defamatory disinformation, get caught and sued for it:
ReplyDelete"In a message posted to the conspiracy theory-laden site that he founded, Jim Hoft announced that The Gateway Pundit has declared bankruptcy.
“TGP Communications, the parent company of The Gateway Pundit, recently made the decision to seek protection under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code in the Southern District of Florida as a result of the progressive liberal lawfare attacks against our media outlet," Jim Hoft wrote in the post.
In December of 2021 Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shaye Moss sued the site alleging that Hoft and his twin brother Joe Hoft used the site to engage in "a campaign of lies” that “instigated a deluge of intimidation, harassment, and threats that has forced them to change their phone numbers, delete their online accounts, and fear for their physical safety.”
The site grew to prominence and saw its traffic surge in 2020 by repeating false claims about mass voter fraud in the that year's election -- claims that helped spark the riot at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. As Mediaite points out, the site saw around 1.7 million unique readers in January of 2020 alone. A year later, that number dropped by around 50 percent.
“This is not an admission of fault or culpability. This is a common tool for reorganization and to consolidate litigation when attacks are coming from all sides. It allows TGP to consolidate this lawfare in one court for ultimate resolution," Hoft wrote in his statement."
We know what they did and that the women they attacked were innocent, so when they say this is not an admission of fault or culpability, we all know better.
Forest Gump is a stupid person’s idea of
ReplyDeletesatire.
The shock Bob got after taking a look at
Fox after long break was that the mean streak
People associate with the right has slowly morphed into an uglier sadism. This has been going on for a long time while oh wet his pants over some dumb jokes from Rachel Maddow. Trump gave it new license, obviously.
Today's antisemitism is on the left. President Biden isn't taking much of a lead in opposing the antisemitism. I wonder how many Jews will change their vote on account of the antisemitism. Sad to say, I don't know of any.
ReplyDeleteBiden has to stop the war first.
DeleteI should not have to put up with antisemitism here in the US, whether or not Israel is in the wrong.
Delete"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
DeleteQuaker — Jews on campuses being harassed, threatened and attacked are things I consider antisemitism.
Delete"Today's antisemitism is on the left". Provide data to support this contention: that the majority of antisemites in this country are liberals. Good luck with that.
Delete@DiC Children are starving in Rafah. Is it "antisemitism" to notice?
DeleteWhere was antisemitism yesterday, DiC? And did you change your vote? Sadly, no.
DeleteToday's calls for the First Amendment right to free-speech to be abandoned are coming from Right-wingers who disagree with the opinions of students.
DeleteSomerby seems more concerned about Gutfeld's smuttiness than Trump's rapes.
ReplyDeleteNude dancing is fine entertainment.
ReplyDeleteWhat is antisemitism? Jews being attacked or Israel being criticized?
ReplyDeleteJewish members of Congress:
ReplyDeleteSenate: 9 Democrats. 1 Independent. 0 Republicans.
House: 26 Democrats. 2 Republicans.
Hello to you friend! ! With this program I can have it many $$$ with Face book post ? Also may be it make schwantz grow biger? I have small schwantz.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this opportunity.
ReplyDelete- Dick Tromboner
Antisemites will not replace us.
ReplyDeleteFreedom of speech means you have the right to agree with me.
ReplyDeleteHarvey Weinstein’s rape conviction in New York has been overturned. That doesn’t imply that he’s a good decent person, though.
ReplyDeleteIt also doesn't mean he is getting out of jail since his other convictions were not overturned.
Delete