BREAKING: Sullivan cites depressing new survey!

MONDAY, JULY 2, 2018

Suggests reason for its results:
Last Friday, in his weekly piece for New York magazine, Andrew Sullivan cited a depressing new survey.

He said that, according to several surveys, millennials have been moving away from support for the Democrats in the time since Trump's election. One large survey said this:
SULLIVAN (6/29/18): [W]hat to make of another huge survey—16,000 millennial respondents—that found that [millennials] were not as hostile to the GOP as a party as they are to Trump? It also found a significant group of millennials who had not become Republican, but who had lost their Democratic affiliation. Support for the Dems went from 55 percent to 46 percent from 2016 to 2018. Home in further and look at white millennials, and the drop is 47 percent to 39, which is dead even with the 39 percent who back the Republicans.

Then look at white millennial men. They’ve gone from 48 percent to 37 percent Democratic support. More striking in their case is that they haven’t just moved away from the Democrats, but have now become Republicans. Their support for the GOP in the last two years has gone from 36 percent to 46. Which means that for white men between the ages of 18 and 34, the GOP now has a ten-point lead. It has achieved that swing in the last two years.
The survey was done by Reuters/Ipsos. You can peruse it here.

Why would so many millennials—in particular, so many white millennial men—be moving way from Dems?

We can't answer that question. We can't even vouch for the accuracy of the very large Reuters/Ipsos survey.

That said, Sullivan took a stab at an answer. We think his suggestion is well worth considering, unless we refuse to wonder about the way our nation actually got here:
SULLIVAN (continuing directly): We don’t know why this has happened. It may be the economy, lower unemployment, and marginally lower taxes. But that doesn’t explain the yawning and growing gender gap. So here’s a guess: When the Democratic party and its mainstream spokespersons use the term “white male” as an insult, when they describe vast swathes of white men in America as “problematic,” when they call struggling, working-class white men “privileged,” when they ask in their media if it’s okay just to hate men, and white men in particular, maybe white men hear it. Maybe the outright sexism, racism, and misandry that is now regarded as inextricable from progressivism makes the young white men less likely to vote for a party that openly advocates its disdain of them.

I don’t know for sure, of course. All I know is that, to my mind, bigotry is still bigotry, whoever expresses it. And those routinely dismissed as bigots might decide to leave a party that so openly expresses its disdain for them.
We liberals! We love to toss our S-, R- and B-bombs around. All of a sudden, there was Sully, lobbing a B-bomb at us!

Are young white men abandoning Dems for the reason Sullivan suggests? We have no ultimate way of saying.

That said, we've been repulsed by this sort of pseudo-liberal non-bigotry bigotry for years, if not for decades. And yes, our knee-jerk attacks on various groups have been reaching clownish proportions.

Are we liberals "asking, in [our] media, if it's okay to just hate men?" Really? Has anyone actually done that?

Sullivan links to a recent essay in the Washington Post's high-profile Outlook section. The piece appeared on Sunday, June 10. We think it was one of the dumbest, most depressing essays we have ever read.

The essay was written by Suzanna Danuta Walters. Horrifically, she isn't simply a professor of sociology at Northeastern University. She's "director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program."

In her essay, Walters basically said that women really should "hate men."

She didn't say that women should hate men who commit sexual assaults. She didn't say that women should hate men who engage in harassment.

She plainly suggested that women should just go ahead and hate men in general, full stop. Ever since the piece appeared, we've been trying to tame our depression long enough to comment.

Luckily, Sullivan cited the essay last Friday. He provisionally linked the sentiments expressed in the piece to falling support for Democrats among young millennial men.

Does this sort of thing explain why that survey turned out as it did? We have no idea, but we do know this:

By any normal, post Enlightenment standard, that essay was just dumbfoundingly dumb. It's astounding that a major professor could compose such dumbfounding work. It's even more astounding to think that the Washington Post chose to publish it, in high-profile Outlook no less.

Our team is extremely dumb. We're also filled with tribal loathing and poorly disguised group hatreds.

As a general matter, we're too dumb, too tribal, and too self-impressed to see these things about ourselves. Much as Sullivan suggests in his piece, The Others aren't always similarly blinded by the brilliant pure self-evident glory of lazy dumb farkwads like Us.

Did Walters help elect Donald J. Trump? Is it possible that her work is going to help re-elect him?


  1. Everything happens for a reason.

    1. In her essay, Walters basically said that "But, of course, the criticisms of this blanket condemnation of men — from transnational feminists who decry such glib universalism to U.S. women of color who demand an intersectional perspective — are mostly on the mark."

      In her essay, Walters basically intended to be provocative, and not an instructional manual.

      The survey sited was an online survey which tend to have issues with bias, especially among young adults and males.

      According to this poll reported at the same time as the survey:

      Wide Gender Gap, Growing Educational Divide in Voters’ Party Identification

      Overall millennial support for Democratics has increased from 53% in 2002 to 59% in 2018

      "Millennials, especially Millennial women, tilt more Democratic. As noted in our recent report on generations and politics, Millennial voters are more likely than older generations to affiliate with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic. Nearly six-in-ten Millennials (59%) affiliate with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic, compared with about half of Gen Xers and Boomers (48% each) and 43% of voters in the Silent Generation. A growing majority of Millennial women (70%) affiliate with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic; four years ago, 56% of Millennial women did so. About half of Millennial men (49%) align with the Democratic Party, little changed in recent years. The gender gap in leaned party identification among Millennials is wider than among older generations."

      They note that Millennial men support of Democratics has little changed in recent years, holding at 49%, while Millennial women support for Democratics has jumped from 56% to 70%.

    2. I'll whip your ass.

    3. The male-bashing probably does hurt, but I think many Millennials are actually pretty naively libertarian in nature. Which could be a problem for Dems.

      Digby's pointed this out already. She thinks a future non-hateful, non-racist GOP candidate could get HUGE support from the young.

      That's how they roll -- Digby's not been too big a fan lately of that age group btw, and I think she's right. She thinks they're kind of prickish in public.

    4. "non-hateful, non-racist GOP candidate could get HUGE support from the young."

      Big deal. The GOP candidate will lose his base if he's non-hateful and non-racist.

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  2. While there's certainly some truth in Sullivan's (and yours) psychobabble, there is, I believe, a much stronger reason.

    It's economic. It's what Sullivan mentions casually: working-class people are struggling. 'White' and 'non-white', men and women. It's neoliberal globalism, supported by both entities known as 'parties', but more enthusiastically by the D entity.

    1. What's your theory as to why only white working-class people are attracted to Trump, but Blacks for example don't seem to feel the same way?

    2. You may want to fight your obsession with Trump. And to stop classifying people as "Blacks". Then, perhaps, you'll have something non-zombie-like to say.

    3. Mao is not a serious commenter, Mao does not believe any of his/her comments, they are drenched with irony and sarcasm. Mao is a laugh for progressives and liberals. Mao provides entertainment for Democratics. Mao's act is old and stale. Mao's lack of creativity indicates despondency.

      Mao gets additional pay for every response Mao generates.

      Enjoy a dinner out on me, Mao. Or a pee hooker if that floats your boat.

    4. More good news for the mythical trump voters sitting in those MW diners suffering from economic anxiety.

      Since her husband took office Melania Trump has earned six figures from an unusual deal with a photo agency in which major media organizations have indirectly paid the Trump family despite a requirement that the photos be used only in positive coverage.

      President Donald Trump's most recent financial disclosure reveals that in 2017 the first lady earned at least $100,000 from Getty Images for the use of any of a series of 187 photos of the first family shot between 2010 and 2016 by Belgian photographer Regine Mahaux.

      It's not unheard of for celebrities to earn royalties from photos of themselves, but it's very unusual for the wife of a currently serving elected official. More problematic for the many news organizations that have published or broadcast the images, however, is that Getty's licensing agreement stipulates the pictures can be used in "positive stories only."

      According to the revenue statement in President Trump's May financial disclosure, Melania Trump earned between $100,000 and $1,000,000 in photo royalties in 2017 from the Getty deal.

    5. There was a time when white working class people and minorities were the Democratic Party backbone.

    6. I don’t know why Sullivan only references white males. More white females voted for Trump than Clinton too.

    7. White people voted for the one that gave them the bigotry they craved?
      Wow. Who saw that coming?

    8. "You may want to fight your obsession with Trump."

      What the fuck is a "Trump"?
      is that like a "George W. Bush"? (If you're old enough to remember who that was).

    9. "It's economic."

      Can you gaslight me into thinking Trump doesn't want a Supreme Court Justice who screws over labor?
      As a bigot, i will totally fall for it.

      Thanks in advance,
      Trump voter

    10. I’m sure you see it under every bed.

    11. I hear "small government Republican, and the Id of Conservativism", Donald Trump, wants women to knuckle under and accept that the government should tell them what to do with their bodies.
      Fortunately, I love his bigotry, so I'm ready to overlook it.

      Trump Voter

    12. 10;34,
      I see the "economically anxious" under my bed, but for some reason (begins with "b" ends with "y") they won't come out to protest Trump (and the rest of the Republicans) who put elites in a position to screw them over.
      "Tis a mystery.

    13. "Blarney"
      Who are you, the corporate-owned media, with their "It can't possibly be bigotry" schtick?

  3. I am a white male who voted for Hillary Clinton.

    I am a liberal white male who has voted in every election I was eligible for in my lifetime and never not voted for the Democrat in a presidential election.

    I will be voting for any Republican candidate at the federal level for the rest of my life.

    What happened? An article on the front page of the New York Times identifying the reliance on a liberal absolutist view of free speech as "weaponizing" that freedom.

    This blew my mind. Even though there have been signs in the last few years, but I figured the ignorance would not spill out of college campuses and social media into the mainstream of the Democratic party, to be embraced by the "liberals" on the Supreme Court.

    I agree with Democrats on most issues but free speech defines my liberalism more than any other issue and to the exclusion of everything if I thought it was at stake. It is, and the defenders of it on the horizon are now the conservatives on the Supreme court.

    We live in interesting times. I would have laughed in anyone's face who told me I would be voting for Donald J. Trump in 2020 but here we are. I like to think I'd take this view regardless of race or gender.

    The article argued that liberals never realized speech could affect undesirable changes? Wut? Complete bullshit. There were even worse arguments but the thrust of it was that liberal traditions on free speech are dangerous and undesirable. So I am off the Democratic train, just like that and for good. This is how it happens.

    "“Because so many free-speech claims of the 1950s and 1960s involved anti-obscenity claims, or civil rights and anti-Vietnam War protests, it was easy for the left to sympathize with the speakers or believe that speech in general was harmless,” he said. “But the claim that speech was harmless or causally inert was never true, even if it has taken recent events to convince the left of that. The question, then, is why the left ever believed otherwise.”

    1. A link for those interested.

    2. Speech is 'offensive' to the liberals. Pretty much all of it, with a minor exception of the talking points produced by their 'think-tanks', focus-group tested, and vetted by their lawyers.

    3. Really? A NY Times article made it so you'll never vote Democratic again despite a lifetime of voting for Democrats? Fascinating.

    4. No the quotes within the article from law professors and justices. I realize the professors are cherrypicked to fit the thrust of the article. The NY Times taking a position against speech is another remarkable aspect but less important than justices and academics who I won't misidentify as "liberal." I have to think you understood I was reacting to the substance of their stated points of view and what that tells us about the direction they are going.

    5. You say this was Page One stuff, huh?


    6. 4;23,
      Thanks for telling it like it is.
      BTW, God is most definitely a figment of dim-witted imaginations.

    7. Don't believe you, and the idea that the GOP is more tolerant of speech is laughable.

      No lifelong Democrat would feel such a thing. You're a phony.

  4. The argument that a broad interpretation of the First Amendment is a justly neutral stance, is now sacrosanct.

    Any deviation from that will mess with a lot of minds.

    If I remember right, Alito had to swear off his dissent from the broad = neutral argument as to the court’s authority, in order to get confirmed.

  5. Sullivan: yes! Yes! and three times Yes!

    I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate, and I find it hard to conceive of ever doing so. But...

    1) Blackguarding people as racist morons is no way to get them to identify with your coalition
    2) Graduates of Harvard and Yale seeming to denigrate whites without a college degree for their privilege, on balance seems incongruous, even if there are elements of their portfolio of privileges and disadvantages that are not shared by all.
    3) Voters of all stripes cast their vote in a way that they perceive (perhaps falsely) to be in their personal self-interest. It's not helpful to call that "racial resentment" only if the voter is white
    4) If, when we compete against Fox News, they can persuade working class whites to vote for the plutocracy (!), and we cannot persuade them to vote against, then Fox News is MUCH smarter than we are.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.


    2. Mark, I disagree. Not about the plutocracy, but about the brilliance of Fox... And I like FNC.

      The disconnect is that so many liberals are oblivious to what a lot of other people think.

      There are still quite a few folks who hold to the notion that taxing and regulating businesses has a determintal effect on their livelihoods.

      It’s not that they don’t already feel abandoned by what has become an internationalist class, but that they don’t want even more disincentives for investment in their world.. They don’t look for entitlements either, they want jobs. Jobs paying $20.00/hr for flipping burgers don’t qualify.

      Pointing out their hypocrisies, misinformation, Luddite-clinging to a world gone by, would at least show an understanding of their point of reference. Even that sort of recognition is not voiced anymore, as we see now in your summation that they have been finessed into voting as they do.

      On the contrary, if there is a new dynamic here in the finessing department it is the way the left has shifted to an oligarchy mentality of a supported underclass overseen by an elite meritocracy composed of technocrats and utopians in symbiosis.

      God help us.

    3. "Blackguarding people as racist morons is no way to get them to identify with your coalition."

      As the corporate-owned mainstream media always says, "There HAS to be another reason than bigotry why whites of all stripes, rich, poor, man, and woman voted for Trump." Fortunately, the corporate-owned mainstream media will damn well find it, no matter what it takes.

    4. You make my point so much more eloquently than I ever could.

    5. "...then Fox News is MUCH smarter than we are."

      Smarter? This is the USA, smarts don't count. Economic power counts. Try to keep up.

    6. "You make my point so much more eloquently than I ever could."

      Not so much "eloquent" as "concise".

    7. "There are still quite a few folks who hold to the notion that taxing and regulating businesses has a detrimental effect on their livelihoods."

      "taxing and regulating" may, by itself, have all kinds of effects. It might very well be detrimental to most of everyone; for example, if taxes are used to finance imperialist wars, and if taxing and regulating cause businesses to move overseas. You see? "taxing and regulating" in abstract is not the Metaphysical Good that you apparently believe it to be.

    8. Mao,
      Donnie the Magnificent wants a HUGE increase in military spending.
      Hopefully, Mueller will uncover a recording of a Trump treating a black person with respect, so we can end this nightmare.

    9. I know, I know. Peace and prosperity is the worst lib-zombie's nightmare.

    10. Mao,
      Trump's $716 Billion defense budget says "hello". It also says "you're a fool".

  6. It's not just white males. The Democratic approach is a poor one for any subgroup of voters. Compare these two messages to groups such as blacks, Hispanics, millennials and gays.

    Trump: We Republicans have created jobs and prosperity for people like you.

    Democrats: We really, really really hate Trump and his supporters.

    No wonder we are seeing this headline
    Trump is Winning Over Blacks, Hispanics, Millennials, and Even Gays

    1. I'm so sick of liberal elites trying to tell white people that toxins in their air, land and water are bad for them. Don't these libtards understand that corporate elites are making a nickel for every toxic waste dump they create? Damn Marxists want to ruin everything for our betters.

    2. David - I don't recall you commenting in 2010 that Republicans had no message other than opposition to Obama, or contrasting that with the Democrats' message of increased access to health insurance for millions of people.

    3. Fair point, Jonny. However, if I recall correctly, the Republican opposition was mostly to Obama's program, not so much to him personally. And, certainly, not so much personally against those who voted for Obama. Well, the November election will help answer the question of campaign effectiveness.

      Anon 10:07 -- your sarcasm is fine, but in the real world, capitalism is far cleaner than socialism. We know this by comparing the Soviet bloc countries with the western European democracies. The SSR's had lots more toxic waste dumps.

      I don't need to go into the reasons why socialism is so much worse environmentally. The dramatic difference in actual results proves that capitalism is greener than socialism.

    4. True. They had no problem with his Presidenting while black. LOL.

    5. "Republican opposition was mostly to Obama's program."
      Yeah. That bastard wanted to negotiate with North Korea, ferchrissakes!

    6. David in CA please be serious.

      "On January 26, 2010, the Senate voted on a resolution to create an eighteen-member deficit-reduction task force with teeth, a fast-track procedure to bring a sweeping plan to solve the U.S.’s debt problem straight to the floor for an up-or-down vote. The resolution was coauthored by Democrat Kent Conrad of North Dakota and Republican Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, and had substantial bipartisan support, including from Republican leaders like John McCain and Mitch McConnell...
      But on January 26, the Senate blocked the resolution. Fifty-three senators supported it, but it could not garner the sixty votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster. Among those who voted to sustain the filibuster and kill the resolution were Mitch McConnell and John McCain. McCain was joined in opposition by six other original cosponsors, all Republicans. Never before have cosponsors of a major bill conspired to kill their own idea, in an almost Alice-in-Wonderland fashion. Why did they do so? Because President Barack Obama was for it, and its passage might gain him political credit." From 'Its even worse than it looks" a book cited here often.

    7. 1:11,
      Waiting around for Conservatives to make a good faith argument is a waste of time.

    8. @10:51, another one of your many confessions, eh?

    9. Trump is Winning Over Blacks, Hispanics, Millennials, and Even Gays

      I'll believe it when Republicans end their voter suppression. fetish.

  7. Lead and violence in Mexico:

    Understanding Harvey (and the others) -- Power alone does not explain their abuses:

    Disordered minds:

  8. Our resident moral and intellectual idiot, David Cheng Ji, has found an online right-wing website to gleefully predict the death of the Democratic voter coalition. How did that happen? Because of "Democrats’ rejection of our electoral system, fake news and calls to violence."

  9. There was no mention of slurs against white men, working-class or otherwise, but here are a few "actual" millennials quoted by Reuters/ipsos:

    One young African American man said "he believes the [Republican] party is making it easier to find jobs and he applauds the recent Republican-led tax cut.
    They’re taking less taxes out of my paycheck. I notice that.”

    A young woman, "now 28, grew more supportive of gun rights, for instance, while married to her now ex-husband, a U.S. Navy technician. She lost faith in social welfare programs she came to believe were misused. She opposed abortion after having children."

    A millennial female tattoo artist from New Hampshire said: "it is cheaper to pay for her doctor’s visits out-of-pocket than to buy insurance through the government-run Obamacare exchange. "

    Reuters claims that millennials
    "nationally are increasingly looking to Republicans for economic leadership, according to the Reuters/Ipsos poll."

    Also, "A growing share of voters between ages 18 and 34 years old said they were undecided, would support a third-party candidate or not vote at all."

    So, if the Democrats would just quit taking taxes to fund welfare programs, drop their support for gun control, quit being pro-choice, allow insurance companies to sell junk policies (hey, they're cheap!) and be the great stewards of the economy that Republicans are, all will be well. If those millennials even decide to vote, that is.

    1. Don't diss "Millennials".
      Conservatives tell me they won't even show up and be committed to their jobs which under pay them.
      Millennials = Greatest Generation.

  10. White male voters are moving to the GOP in droves and we lie to pollsters. I did. Not because we're ashamed of being right all the time but because we don't want an unhinged lefty employee overhearing the call and filing a false HR claim or something equally typical.

    1. You lie to everyone. Mostly yourselves.

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