What did Johnson actually say?

THURSDAY, MARCH 18, 2021

Has anyone tried to find out?: We've taken down this original post because much of it was wrong.

As it turns out, it seems that the weekend Joe Pags Show replayed the original interview with Ron Johnson. We haven't listened to it yet, but apparently it's replayed there.

What did Ron Johnson say in the full interview? We'll revisit this topic at some point.

Update concerning the interview: If you want to hear the full talk radio interview in which Ron Johnson made his recent widely-discussed comments, the rebroadcast of the interview starts at 19:15 of this audio tape of The Joe Pags Show.

The 43-second audio clip which has been widely played occurs shortly after the 25-minute mark. Several minutes earlier, Johnson has said that he condemns, and has always condemned, the people who engaged in the riot / insurrection at the Capitol building.

He makes other remarks which you will likely regard as dumb and/or embellished. But he says at several points that he condemns the people who rioted. Pags is more articulate than Johnson in making this same basic point.

Our assessments? On the one hand, Johnson often makes dumb remarks. He does so during this interview. 

(Other reasonably valid points get made, possibly in embellished form. These are the kinds of points you aren't likely to hear discussed at "corporate liberal" news orgs.)

On the other hand, that 43-second audio clip strikes us as the product of a rather selective edit.  This is the way our modern discourse quite routinely works. 

(You can hear Pags making the claim that Johnson has been selectively paraphrased at the start of the program. We can't really say that his several claims are wrong.)

We may try to offer an overview of this matter in the next few days. On the other hand, we've wasted a lot of time in the past week trying to find the audiotape of that fuller interview. We had clicked through that two-hour audiotape on several occasions, trying without success to find Johnson's voice.

Is Johnson dumb, or is he a propagandist? We can only tell you this:

Johnson has seemed to be dumb for years; during this interview, Pags is far more coherent. This dumbness predated the point at which the recent perceived propaganda may have seemed to start.

The nation's discourse is falling apart. This partisan process is taking place here in Our Town too.

66 comments:

  1. "Quite obviously, none of those journalists actually tried to hear the fuller exchange from which the 43-second clip emerged."

    There is no way to know what those journalists tried to do. If Somerby has failed to find the right clip, they may have tried and failed just as Somerby did. They may then have linked to the other audio, just as Somerby has done, in the absence of anything better.

    Somerby's unwillingness to be charitable toward the efforts others is noted. He assumes the worst without any basis for doing so other than animosity toward the press.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you’re hearing a snippet of the discussion, then you should say that you haven’t heard what was said in complete context.

      That matters and should be shared.

      From the link here it sounded to me like Joe Pags was saying that he wanted some coin for the whole exchange.

      I’m not sure. Hit the Daily Beast link and then the Pags show link at the bottom and tell me what you think.

      Delete
    2. Johnson said: "I'm also criticized because..."

      The word also signifies a shift in topic. That makes what came before less relevant.

      No, I am not going to listen to any conservative talk. I don't care what the context. These words are awful.

      Delete
    3. They were awful. What you want to know or hear or don’t want to know or hear isnt important to anyone but you.

      You’re not a professional reporter.

      Delete
    4. Right, and you're not the boss of anyone either.

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    5. Obviously, you nothing about marriage.

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  2. "Even for Johnson, that statement makes no sense."

    It makes perfect sense if you know who Johnson is. He is saying that he didn't fear those people because (in Trump's words) they were beautiful people and he loved them. They were his people.

    Somerby pretends huge befuddlement, but Johnson meaning is clear. He was with the protesters and they were with him. How could he fear them under those circumstances? You don't need a weather vane to tell which way the wind blows (as Bob Dylan would say). It isn't "narrative" when you combine the other things you know about Johnson with this statement to make sense of it. That is called reasoning.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From what I briefly heard from Pags, the big onus being placed by the media on Johnson’s idiotic remarks is that he didn’t fear white folks. Just black.

      Nice to see that take didn’t immediately occur to you either.

      Delete
    2. It goes without saying that white supremacists fear black people. That's what white supremacy is all about. That said, Antifa is not black and quite a few of the BLMers weren't either. But Johnson clearly fears the changes that would occur if systematic racism were eliminated. That's what the insurrection was about.

      It is all there, Cecelia. Johnson was trying to keep Trump in office. Trump is a white supremacist (among other things). Johnson didn't have to spell it out, and I don't think he did, but everyone knew what he meant.

      Delete
    3. Here, I'll explain it in kindergarten terms. If you are on one team, no one on your team is going to attack you. But being on one team or another says nothing about what those teams are about. In the insurrection, the Trump team (which Johnson and the insurrectionists were all members of) was about continuing a white supremacist government. That is the racial part. When Johnson says he would fear BLM and Antifa, it isn't because those groups are more dangerous (they aren't), but because the whole goal of the insurrection was to keep white people in power over black and brown people (like those who belong to BLM). When you know which team Johnson supports, you know how he feels about black people and why he fears BLM. This isn't rocket science. Journalists are talking about what the teams are in favor of, whereas I was talking about which team Johnson is part of and the fact that a team doesn't typically attack itself.

      I happen to agree that Johnson is a racist and that his remark had racist implications, just as Trump's generally do.

      If you don't like being on the racist team, become an Independent and stop supporting these guys.

      Delete
    4. "the whole goal of the insurrection was to keep white people in power over black and brown people"

      You don't need an insurrection to keep white people in power over black and brown people. White people will always be in power over black and brown people. The whole insurrection completely failed and white people are still in power over black and brown people now. There will never be a situation in any of our lives where white people are not in power over black and brown people. They life you enjoy now is because of slavery and white people being in power over black and brown people. Your life is based on genocides and wars and the biggest, bloodiest most ruthless army and security state in the history of the world keeping American white people in power of all the other people on the planet. Pelosi, Clinton, Biden are all participants and supporters of the slaughters that keep you fat and stupid.

      Delete
    5. "Pelosi, Clinton, Biden are all participants and supporters of the slaughters that keep you fat and stupid."

      As is Anonymous at 1:04 AM.
      I wonder why they left themself and every Right-winger out?

      Delete
    6. Pelosi, Clinton, Biden are all participants and supporters of the slaughters that keep you fat and stupid.

      Delete
    7. "There will never be a situation in any of our lives where white people are not in power over black and brown pople."

      Unless you visit another country, such as one in Africa, the Middle East, Asia, the South Pacific, Latin America, pretty much the majority of the world excluding Europe and North America.

      Delete
  3. Just as Somerby has defended so many other miscreants of the right, today he pretends that Johnson may have been misunderstood because his remark was taken out of context. He pretends that there was something weird about an entirely straightforward remark (from Johnson's perspective).

    Johnson didn't fear those insurrectionists because he was one of them. It didn't matter that they were bashing heads and killing each other. He knew he was safe from their wrath (unlike Pence and Pelosi). No mystery here.

    The only weirdness is how Somerby can believe that anyone would take his deliberate obtuseness as genuine confusion. Who does Somerby think he is fooling with this act? Not any of the liberals here. Just Cecelia and Leroy, and the irony is that they are already on his side, Trump's side, the conservative side, Russia's side! What a farce this is.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "A remarkable number of press corps links are actually "links to nowhere.""

    What a coincidence! Somerby has been providing quite a few of these sorts of links himself lately. I've been pointing them out in comments.

    ReplyDelete
  5. If you look at the first paragraph, it says that lead levels have plummeted and it provides a like to this:

    "Trends in blood lead levels and blood lead testing among US children aged 1 to 5 years, 1988-2004"

    This seems to support the statement in the paragraph about plummeting lead levels, which declined 84% according to the linked article, but Somerby claims it is a "link to nowhere".

    It is hard to see what Somerby is objecting to about this link. Maybe he doesn't like it that the article mentions the 1970s as the starting point in the decline whereas the article is about the 1980s. If the levels were much lower in the 1980s (when measured), it implies a decline from the 1970s (the comparison years against which that 84% decline is figured).

    I think this so-called example is a link-to-nowhere on Somerby's part. I guess he thinks no one will actually check his work. But with Somerby, you always have to check.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "Your lizard will tell you that you should be mad about what we've said in this post."

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you find Somerby's complaint less than overwhelming, then you are using your lizard brain (reacting emotionally) whereas if you agree with him, you are being an imbecile and siding with conservatives. No way to win and Somerby is covered either way. He doesn't allow the possibility of legitimate disagreement that comes from the gray matter (cortex, frontal lobe sites of reason and logic).

    Somerby says, if you disagree with him, you are thinking like a lizard.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Nobody on the left is confused about what Johnson meant and neither is anybody on the right. Just Somerby, who cannot figure out how to defend him so is implying that he didn't say what he plainly said.

    ReplyDelete
  8. The autopsy report hasn’t been released yet on Officer Sicknick.

    Some suspect it might have been a late reaction to bear repellant used by rioters.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What does this have to do with anything?

      Delete
    2. What actually has happened is what you want to know. Especially if lethal force is being discussed. IWhat went down is not something that is ancillary to a discussion.

      Delete
    3. No, I don't want to know that. I want to know what you think this info about Sicknick has to do with what Johnson said. There were hundreds of injuries. One insurrectionist was trampled by the others. Quibbling over what killed Sicknick doesn't excuse a single word of Johnson's statement.

      Delete
    4. Somerby brought up Sicknick. He didn’t die at the riot. We don’t know yet how he died.

      As per usual, the facts are going to matter less in a discussion here than your narrative.

      Delete
    5. Bear spray is called bear spray because it is meant to be used on bears. If you use it on a human, you are committing an assault. If that results in death, then it is homicide as surely as if a gun were used.

      Somerby said that Sicknick died. That much is true. And yes, there is evidence that his death was related to violence at the Capitol. Not Elvis though.

      Delete
    6. There is video of insurrectionists spraying Sicknick.

      Delete
    7. Anonymouse 4:36pm, we have no autopsy report yet. There is no video showing Sicknick was bashed with a fire extinguisher. He texted his brother after he went home that night and said he had been sprayed with pepper spray. He said nothing about a fire extinguisher.

      The only video they have may suggest that he was sprayed with bear repellent, but they’re not sure.

      I could die from a reaction to pepper spray or to being beaten by a fire extinguisher. I think its obvious why this matters. If it’s true, if they can identify who did it they might get some degree of manslaughter charge, for spraying him but intent to killl is going to be tough to prove for a reason. Was this person trying to kill a cop?

      You set fire to a courthouse and or a police station knowing people are in the building what are your intentions?

      Delete
    8. Two people have been charged with assaulting Sicknick. If it can be shown that he died as a result of the assault, they can be charged with “felony murder.”

      Delete
    9. I said that would be tough to prove.

      Delete
    10. No, Cecelia, you said “intent to kill” was going to be tough to prove. There doesn’t have to be intent to be charged with felony murder. That is a death (unintentional or intent not provable) that occurs in the commission of another crime.

      Delete
    11. Oh, I thought manslaughter fit that bill too. Thanks!

      Delete
    12. Felony murder, in the jurisdictions where it exists, is a far more serious charge than manslaughter.

      Delete
    13. Of course, many were shouting “hang Mike Pence” and there’s this:
      Police officer recalls moment Capitol mob yelled: ‘Kill him with his own gun!’

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/15/police-officer-capitol-mob-kill-him-with-his-own-gun

      There was intent to kill, at least with some, if not all, of the rioters. It’s difficult to prove the intent of those attacking Sicknick, but it isn’t hard to guess.

      Delete
    14. They would have taken guns in if that had been the intent from jump with the majority.

      They got in and got worked up and it went like things like that go.

      That have some jail time to do and it’s richly deserved.

      Delete
    15. No, they didn't just "get worked up." The FBI has access to their advance planning.

      Delete
    16. Fact: Right-wing insurrectionists at the Capitol Building on January 6th wanted to overthrow the election because black people's votes counted just as much as theirs.

      Narrative: Right-wingers are "economically anxious".

      Delete
  9. >Officer Sicknick died.

    So did Elvis. So far, there's zero evidence that either death was related to violence at the Capitol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow you’re are an idiot.

      Delete
    2. Violence at the Capitol, didn't kill George Floyd. That was white supremacy, too.

      Delete
  10. Dear Bob,
    we feel that what Mr Johnson said, in the quote you provided, is exactly what Mr Johnson's voters expect him to say.

    We also feel that anyone older than 12 who expects to hear something smart from a politician -- nay, anyone who wastes time listening to politicians, period -- is unusually dumb.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Johnson said something racist because Republican voters love racism.
      Anyone older than 12 who doesn't know that...oops, no one older than 12 doesn't know that. Those older than 12 who say they don't know that are liars.

      Delete
  11. Note that Somerby was mistaken about the nefarious journalists and their links to nowhere.

    He replaced his original post without acknowledging his Ron Johnson-level stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "What did Ron Johnson say in the full interview? We'll revisit this topic at some point."

    I'll bet dollars to donuts that Somerby never comes back to this again. His point is gone if Pags played the proper portion of the interview. There is nothing left for him to complain about.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would have been nice to get a hint as to why it’s still irking him now that he’s none a do-over.

      Delete
    2. I'll bet you $5,000 he does. Ping me and we'll set up an escrow account.

      Delete
    3. Take the donuts.

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  13. "Fewer than 24 hours after the senseless, violent killings of seven women — six of them of Asian descent — by a white supremacist gunman in Atlanta, the majority of House Republicans voted *against* the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act."

    Somerby, of course, has nothing to say about the violence or the Act.

    ReplyDelete
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  16. 'We've taken down this original post because much of it was wrong.'

    That could hold for the 99% of TDH posts that glorify Donald Trump and defend Roy Moore, Brock Turner, Zimmerman, Ron Johnson (like this one)

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  18. "Harry, the one who didn't tell her that life in the Palace might be constrained,"

    Here Somerby demonstrates that he has bought the tabloid portrayal of Meghan as spoiled, whiny and petty, hook line and sinker.

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