PITFALLS: As seen in Planet of the Apes!

WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, 2021

Very, very hard to explain, but easy to "envision:" Many parts of Einstein's universe are hard to understand. 

Indeed, that's true of modern physics in general, including the parts of modern physics which emerged in the decades after Einstein's breakthroughs. Just consider what Brian Greene said.

Brian Greene knows a boatload of math and physics. He's a professor of physics and mathematics at Columbia University. In his spare time, he's the director of Columbia’s Center for Theoretical Physics.

As such, Greene is a high-ranking academic. That said, he's best known in the wider world for his books about modern physics intended for general readers. 

The first of these books was The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory (1999). Next came The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality (2004). Other such volumes have followed.

These books have been praised for the way they made modern physics, including Einstein's work, accessible to general readers. The Elegant Universe led to a three-part PBS series which aired in 2003. The Fabric of the Cosmos produced a four-part PBS series in 2011.

Did those books, and those PBS programs, make Einstein (and the rest of modern physics) accessible to the general public, possibly even easy? We'll sign up as hard skeptics on that point. We may attempt to address that question as the weeks roll along.

That said, the task is very hard. Here's part of "A Conversation with Brian Greene," an interview published by Nova in connection with the 2003 series on PBS:

NOVA: Do you think there are limits to how much we can know about the universe?

GREENE: I don't know. I'd like to think that there aren't, but I suspect that's a little optimistic. An analogy that's used in the NOVA program that I'm quite fond of is: We are certainly aware of intelligent beings on this planet whose capacity to understand the deep laws of the universe is limited. No matter how hard you try to teach your cat general relativity, you're going to fail. There we have an example of an intelligent living being that will never know this kind of truth about the way the world is put together. Why in the world should we be any different? We can certainly go further than cats, but why should it be that our brains are somehow so suited to the universe that our brains will be able to understand the deepest workings?

We humans may not be built to understand this stuff, Greene has frequently said. We're inclined to think that these cautionary statements by Greene are extremely wise.

Let's return to Einstein's work—to his universe alone. As Greene has noted in both of the books we've cited, certain parts of Einstein's universe are very hard to internalize, visualize, fully grasp, intuitively understand.

As his interview with Nova continued, he went into more detail on this general point of concern. In this, the very next exchange, he's discussing a realm of physics which came after Einstein, but the point he's making would apply to Einstein's universe too:

NOVA: Well, for example, most people have trouble envisioning a fourth spatial dimension. Can you?

GREENE: No. I cannot envision anything beyond three dimensions. What I can do is I can make use of mathematics that describe those extra dimensions, and then I can try to translate what the mathematics tells me into lower dimensional analogies that help me gain a picture of what the math has told me. But the picture is certainly inadequate to the task of fully describing what's going on, because it's in lower dimensions, and in higher dimensions, things are definitely different.

To tell you the truth, I've never met anybody who can envision more than three dimensions. There are some who claim they can, and maybe they can; it's hard to say. But it's very hard, when your brain is involved in a world that appears to have three dimensions and is well suited to envisioning that world, to go beyond that and imagine more dimensions. 

Greene can't "envision" basic parts of this puzzling new cosmos. He can only "make use of mathematics," then attempt to "translate what the mathematics tells him" into helpful analogies. 

In the end, those analogies may or may not be helpful for the general reader. In the end, it all depends on the particular writer's skill. But as Greene himself has frequently said, understanding modern physics is just intrinsically hard—or at least, it's very hard in a wide range of basic respects.

Understanding modern physics is often intrinsically hard. The same is true for that part of modern physics which constitutes "Einstein's universe." But as we noted yesterday, certain parts of Einstein's universe are actually easy to understand. The example we gave involed the conversion of matter into energy. 

We may not understand the process by which this happens, but it's easy to see that (what we think of as) an enormous amount of energy can be produced from (what we think of as) a fairly small amount of matter.  As we noted yesterday, that elementary fact is easy to report and describe.

For that reason, it's easy to "envision." And in that sense, it's easy to understand. 

Early in The Elegant Universe, Greene offers two other examples. He does so as he describes a finding which emerged from Einstein's special theory of relativity (1905). 

Special relativity "makes the strange claim that observers in relative motion [to each other] will have different perceptions of distance and of time," Greene says in Chapter 2 of The Elegant Universe. He then provides a pair of examples to help readers picture what this means:

The first example: In the first example, Slim and his brother Jim are each measuring the speed of Slim's very fast new Trans Am. Using identical stopwatches, the brothers measure the time it will take for Slim to drive the length of a race track in this fast new car.

Slim is timing himself, using a stopwatch inside his car. Using an identical stopwatch, Jim is timing Slim as he stands alongside the track. 

Slim is doing 120; Jim is standing still. According to special relativity, Greene says their (identical) stopwatches will not agree on the amount of time which elapses as Slim roars down the track.

The difference in measurement will be very small, Greene says. But the difference will happen every time, and it won't be an artefact of the brothers' stopwatches. If everything about this process goes right, the two stopwatches will not agree on how much time has elapsed.

The second example: In the second example, Jim is trying to measure the length of Slim's car as it speeds down the track. Slim has already measured the length of the car as it sat in the showroom.

According to special relativity, these two measurements will not be the same, Greene says. Again, the difference here will be quite small, but there will be a difference every time if the measurements are conducted correctly.

These examples may seem underwhelming, but they're easy to describe and they're easy to understand. Using identical stopwatches and identical measuring sticks, the two brothers will not agree on the length of time which has passed, or on the length of the car.

We may not understand why these differences would occur, but it's easy to see what's being described in these two examples. In that sense, this limited part of Einstein's universe is easy to "envision" and, in that sense, to understand.

In his subsequent book, The Fabric of the Cosmos, Greene provides a much more dramatic example of the peculiar way Einstein's work changed our comprehension of the universe. You may find it hard to believe what Greene is saying in this example, but what he's saying is easy to "envision" and to understand.

The heading in Greene's book is this: "The Puzzles of Time Travel." Brian Greene starts with this:

When Einstein discovered the nature of special relativistic spacetime, he laid out a blueprint for fast-forwarding to the future. If you want to see what's happening on planet earth 1,000, or 10,000, or 10 million years in the future, the laws of Einsteinian physics tell you how to go about it. You build a vehicle whose speed can reach, say, 99.999999996 percent of light speed [the speed of light]. At full throttle, you head off into deep space for a day, or ten days, or a little over twenty-seven years according to your ship's clock, then abruptly turn around and head back to earth, again at full throttle.

At this point, even Jeff Bezos can't construct such a speedy space ship. But it's easy to picture what Greene is saying here—and here's what would happen if you took that high speed trip into space, according to Greene's account of Albert Einstein's universe:

On your return, 1,000, or 10,000, or ten million years of earth time will have elapsed. This is an undisputed and experimentally verified prediction of special relativity; it is an example of the slowing of time with the increasing of time described in Chapter 3 [of Greene's book].

It may be hard to believe that any such thing would actually happen. It may be hard to explain why any such thing would or could occur.

That said, it's easy to understand what Greene is saying here. This part of Einstein's universe is easy to report or describe, and it's easy to "envision." In that sense, and to that extent alone, this particular part of Einstein's universe is easy to understand.

Indeed, how easy is it to envision this part of Einstein's universe? So easy that moviegoers saw it envisioned in the 1968 film, Planet of the Apes! 

In the film, Charlton Heston travels at high speed into space, then accidentally ends up back on a vastly-changed Earth. This produces a famous surprise ending, but here's the way the famous film is said to begin:

Astronauts Taylor, Landon, and Dodge awaken from deep hibernation after a near-light-speed space voyage...Their spacecraft crashes into a lake on an unknown planet and the men abandon the sinking vessel. Before bailing out, Taylor reads the ship's chronometer as November 25, 3978, two thousand and six years after their departure in 1972. 

At the end of the film, that "unknown planet" will turn out to be the Earth. Two thousand years have passed on Earth, but the handsome trio of astronauts have barely aged at all.

Planet of the Apes wasn't intended to present perfectly accurate science. That said, it did offer a picture of the type of "time travel" Greene describes in The Fabric of the Cosmos.

It may be hard to understand how or why an event like that could happen, even in theory. But it isn't hard to describe what special relativity predicts. In that sense, and to that extent, it isn't hard to envision or understand this part of Einstein's universe.

In this sense, some parts of Einstein's universe are actually quite easy. Most parts are extremely hard.

Much as Charles Krauthammer said in his 1988 column, Greene can proceed ahead through his knowledge of the mathematics. General readers are forced to rely on the analogies he constructs, and on the skill displayed by such writers when they form these allegedly helpful pathways to comprehension.

Brian Greene know tons of physics and math. But things can go badly wrong even when brilliant theorists like Greene start constructing analogies.

In his 1916 book for general readers, Einstein himself had trouble making Einstein easy. Borrowing on Greene's example, a house cat could never make Einstein easy—but it isn't clear that we humans are extremely well equipped for this task ourselves.

This is where the pitfalls of human reasoning begin to make their appearance. The later Wittgenstein lurks and cringes as misshapen language appears.

Tomorrow, we'll visit a very strange passage from Chapter 2 of The Elegant Universe. We'll also look in on a puzzling first attempt to make Kurt Gödel easy.

How well are we humans built for such tasks? We think Greene has been very wise as he's offered his words of warning.

Tomorrow or Friday: An extremely peculiar passage 

Next week: "Relativity is a simple concept." One writer's famous last words?


60 comments:

  1. Robert Heinlein wrote two novels involving this distortion of space time. I read them as a teenager and felt the ideas were comprehensible, especially since they were essential to the plot. One was Methusaleh's children. The other was Time for the Stars, described by Wikipedia as follows:

    "The basic plot line is derived from a 1911 thought experiment in special relativity, commonly called the twin paradox, proposed by French physicist Paul Langevin."

    Based on special relativity, there is no reason why the ship's chronometer (presumably showing the amount of time the ship was in space) would read the same as the date on the planet where the ship crashed.

    As Somerby notes, Planet of the Apes doesn't make much pretense to be science fiction rather than fantasy. It is a poor example for Somerby to use, given the existence of much better ones. That suggests that Somerby isn't very familiar with science fiction as a genre, although he has written about movies several times before. Special relativity may be easier to explain in a book than it is to portray in a movie (excluding documentaries on that topic).

    I really do not understand why Somerby is preoccupied with whether such ideas are hard or "easy." And why should we care what cats do or do not understand. Dogs have little sense of time and it would be a nuisance if they did. You couldn't leave them tied up outside the dry cleaners while you went in to pick up your laundry, without severe recriminations from them. Who needs that?

    I feel confident that this whole discussion is intended by Somerby to kill off his blog readership.

    His belief that everyday readers (e.g., cats) should be able to grasp special relativity as readily as those with training in physics (e.g., physicists) is ridiculous and it is very hard to understand why he keeps arguing something so silly.

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  2. Again...

    If you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. If you think this is true, then you don't know anything sufficiently complex to appreciate the difficulties in explaining it to someone lacking in foundational concepts, experience, and vocabulary.

      If it only required sufficient understanding to teach complex topics, there would never be a need for graduate study or technical training. But there is. That is empirical evidence that this simplistic formula is wrong.

      Delete
    2. Unfortunately you are now arguing with Richard Feynman (deceased)...



      Albert Einstein Award (1954)
      E. O. Lawrence Award (1962)
      Nobel Prize in Physics (1965)
      Foreign Member of the Royal Society (1965)
      Oersted Medal (1972)
      National Medal of Science (1979)

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    3. Yes, this is the same guy who called psychology a "cargo cult science." He may have been a great physicist but he didn't know anything about psychology. Unfortunately for Feynman, how people learn falls into the field of psychology, not physics.

      There are some people who think that if they are experts in one specialized field, that gives them license to expound on anything they want. Feynman appears to be that kind of person.

      I would say this to Feynman's face if he were still around.

      Delete
    4. How quickly you pivoted from your previous analysis:

      >If you think this is true, then you don't know anything sufficiently complex to appreciate the difficulties in explaining it to someone lacking in foundational concepts, experience, and vocabulary.

      So I should accept your new explanation as opposed to that one?

      Delete
    5. 12:46, Somerby has said that Einstein’s ‘Einstein Made Easy’ book wasn’t easy, and didn’t make him (Somerby) understand it.

      Are we to believe therefore that Einstein didn’t understand his own theories?

      And as a rationalist you must admit that there are some people who are just incapable of understanding something no matter how simply or well it is explained. That is hardly the fault of the explainer in that case.

      Delete
    6. >there are some people who are just incapable of understanding something no matter how simply or well it is explained. That is hardly the fault of the explainer in that case.

      Hard to disagree with that. I think we're focused on if the majority of people can reach a decent level of understanding of the material.

      For Einstein, you make a good point - the best yet I think. Maybe this previous poster was on to something when talking about psychology. Perhaps also, and this may be going out on a limb, Einstein didn't have a full understanding of the material himself, they were brand new theories in a theoretical field. Someone has to pave the way. It's food for thought.

      Delete
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  3. >I really do not understand why Somerby is preoccupied with whether such ideas are hard or "easy."

    Consider how decisions about how to implement or use science are often made by managers with little technical background. Should we just settle for providing them with explanations that are hard to understand and hope that they still make the right decision?

    How about teaching children about science. Should we just settle for the material being too hard and those children being confounded by it, adding little value to their education?

    Should I provide some more examples?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Managers don't need to have a deep understanding of the science in order to make a decision. Somerby is objecting to the kinds of simplified explanations that managers do fine with in real life.

      Funding decisions about physics projects are made by people with doctorates in physics (program managers) aided by evaluations by peer reviewers who are experts in the area of the proposed work.

      When you try teaching children about science using material that is over their heads, you bore and discourage them, which is not a good idea if you are trying to encourage them to become scientists. There is a literature on how to teach science to kids. It includes hands on demos of basic principles, observation of interesting phenomena, not abstract explanations of difficult concepts. That comes later, after a foundation has been created.

      Go read the Heinlein book Time for the stars, to see how this is done. That was written as a children's book (one of Heinlein's classic "juveniles").

      Delete
    3. These are good points and add context, but I don't think they negate what I am saying.

      Emerging technologies become products, and ultimately with the way our corporations do business, somewhat clueless managers will be unfortunately heavily involved in decisions regarding these products. Consider also that to be a nuclear power plant manager you can get that job with just a bachelor's degree.

      Teaching children simplistic stuff without challenging them can also be a mistake. In order to create that foundation you have to get them engaged in the first place. We've seen this with the dumbed-down version of history that was taught, the net result is that history became a subject that students were largely not interested in. I think the goal is to teach complex material in simple, well-explained terms. Teaching that same material in poorly explained terms is not ideal, I make no argument there.

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    4. There is no need for any of those types of managers to understand special relativity or even the details of whatever technologies they are managing. They need business training, not advanced science.

      No one is suggesting that children be taught "simplistic" stuff, just age-appropriate stuff. If they are ready for more, there are lots of ways of addressing such needs. Your "simple, well-explained terms" are what teachers do. Assuming that material is taught poorly is unfair to teachers and our schools, and that isn't what Somerby is talking about today at all.

      Delete
  4. At least half the country wants Jesus riding dinosaurs bible-stories taught as science. If that Republican-led Christian Taliban wins you and Somerby won't have to worry about any of this. These books will be burned and physicists will be gagged, or maybe burned too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow. With all those nasty adjectives, surely you must know what you're talking about!

      Delete
    2. I'm not sure you know what an adjective is...

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    3. "I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."
      --Albert Einstein

      Yep, the GOP Taliban would certainly burn his books.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F

      Delete
    4. I’ve been hoping they’d do that since the Teddy Roosevelt Administration,

      Delete
    5. You're confused, boy. Jesus was riding a donkey.

      As for the Taliban, say what you want, dembot, but a bunch of goat herders defeating -- not one but two! -- mighty superpowers in the course of mere 50 years -- now that's your David and Goliath story, for history books. Did your Einsteins and Hawkings help much?

      Delete
    6. All credit goes to our Right-wing, corporate-owned media (AKA the media) for cheerleading the United States into a war where a handful of teenagers fought the military to a standstill.

      Delete
  5. @rationalist, your listing of Feynman’s CV is surely impressive.

    I will point out that both Bertrand Russell and Kurt Gödel have equally impressive CV’s, but that didn’t stop Somerby from mocking both.

    He has relentlessly mocked Russell’s ‘paradox’, has implied that Russell was a snob.

    He pointed out in multiple posts that Gödel (supposedly) went crazy in his later years, and he has frequently mocked Gödel’s supposed adherence to ‘mathematical Platonism.’

    That should tell you how much those academic achievements mean to Somerby.

    I doubt he would find Feynman’s explanations of Einstein any easier to understand.

    Maybe you should request that he peruse Feynman.

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    1. Hey mh wow you guys are keeping me busy today, or I suppose I'm at fault for engaging in multiple discussions here!

      I take Somerby's mocking and playful antagonism with a grain of salt. This is the same guy that often ends his entries with a reminder that we as a human species can not do any better, according to experts.

      Delete
  6. I tried again to calculate the mass of a kilowatt-year. This time, I got 350 micrograms, which seems plausible. When I was in high school I could do this easily. Now I find it difficult and confusing. Anyone else want to try?

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  8. Somerby would appreciate this reasoning:

    https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2021/07/vaccine-skeptics.html

    ReplyDelete
  9. I'm enjoying this diversion.

    And it's amazing, the number of essays I've read from respected journalists - Ryan Grim comes to mind - pointing out our tribal, and therefore primitive, thinking. It's the way we've evolved, and there's not much we can do to change that.

    We could try capitalism. Maybe that would work.

    Leroy

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    1. When people evolve a particular way, it is because being that way helps them survive in their environment. Somerby doesn't understand that being human, being tribal, reasoning as we do, has contributed to our success. It is not a flaw or something to constantly bemoan. It is how we have best been able to achieve our goals in our world.

      This constant claim that there is something majorly wrong with people during an era when there is less war in the world, more prosperity, better health and more education than have ever existed at any time in the past, makes me wonder what Somerby's beef is. The negativity of his doomsaying, his error and misinformation about humanity, all make me cringe daily, and he is not helping make the world a better place with his constant insistance that people are no good.

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    2. Covid has changed some of this...

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    3. Not “people”, Anonymouse 7:45pm, rather Somerby’s constant insistence that liberals aren’t much better.

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    4. Don't fool yourself. He doesn't like you any better.

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    5. Oh, my goodness, I don’t. My side is completely noblesse oblige on his part.

      I just happen to know brilliance when I see it.

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    6. The term you're looking for to describe your side is "non compos mentis".

      Delete
    7. @7:45
      One of the things I forgot to state in my last post was that Somerby seems to be getting results!

      Because people lose sight of what he's really talking about. Nearly all of his essays are about the information we consume, and much of that from the MSM, which is where most people get it - if it's MSM.

      We have learned that the MSM are bootlickers and millionaires. They says what theys paid to say.

      BTW, WWIII has been going on for quite some time now. Somehow, it's the rich who benefit, and the rest of us who don't.

      Leroy

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  10. Somerby thinks racism is over but this is what black people have to put up with while going about their daily lives:

    "A white Chicago man faces hate crime charges after allegedly attacking a Black 19-year-old, who has autism, inside a grocery store bathroom after telling the teen, "White people built this country."

    Philipp T. Jordt, 44, an ex-Marine who now works as a security guard, was standing at a urinal inside the bathroom at Pete's Fresh Grocery Market when he allegedly began hurling racial slurs at the teen, who was washing his hands, the Chicago Tribune reports.

    "Jordt allegedly tried to prevent the 19-year-old from leaving the bathroom and punched him in the stomach while continuing to yell racial slurs," the newspaper reports. "The 19-year-old exited the bathroom after a struggle in which he punched Jordt at least once, knocking him to the ground."

    Jordt then followed the teen out of the bathroom and continued to throw punches, but didn't make contact, prosecutors say. After two off-duty police officers working security at the store intervened, Jordt called one of them a racial slur.

    Jordt later explained that he "does not have a problem with all Black people, just certain ones when they act a certain way," according to prosecutors. He also admitted to being intoxicated at the time of the incident.

    The judge in the case responded to Jordt's claim that "white people built this country" during a hearing this week.

    "I'm quite certain there are a lot of African Americans who would beg to differ with that," Judge John Lyke said. "What I've heard growing up is that alcohol is a truth serum. It tends to expose who you are."

    Although Jordt's attorney claimed that "there is much more than meets the eye here about the interaction between the complaining witness and my client," the judge ordered him held in lieu of $150,000 bail, and executed a warrant for an unrelated trespassing charge."

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  11. I think I got it. Movement, action, energy, whatever takes time. A parked car is a 3D dimensional model. But, when the car is moved, to get it to the new location, it requires time, or in other words, without time, the car doesn’t move. Now ask me about the Swiss cheese theory of the universe, with the holes being black holes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or I can ask you about this:

      https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-are-closing-the-bell-test-loophole-20170207/

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    2. That’s good. Basically it alludes to another dimension for lack of a better word. In a 2D model- two points can be next to each other whereas the same two points could be an infinite distance from each other on a 3D model. This Bell test suggest the existence of a dimension x or xD.

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    3. That’s a good explanation. Thanks!

      Delete
  12. These kinds of stories are all too common for racism to be over, as Somerby appears to believe:

    "Devondrea Williams says that when police sicced a dog on him, "I ain't never scream like that a day in my life."

    Speaking to KMOV4, Williams said he was riding in the back of a truck with his cousin when they were pulled over by police in Granite City, Illinois. He says they were never told why they were pulled over, but his cousin was allegedly involved in a fight.

    "I see him reaching for his handcuffs, so I go to put my hand like this and then he grabs my arm aggressively. I look at him and then two other cops get pushing me. They push me onto the truck, and then I see the dog out of the corner of my eye and then the dog bites me," said Williams. "He bit me like I think five times."

    Local resident Regeana Canada, who witnessed the incident, said the dog latched onto Williams for about 8 minutes and that police had to tase the dog in order to get it to let go.

    "I'm not anti-police, there's just some questions about that particular incident I would like answered because I don't understand why the dog got let loose," said Canada."

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    1. We demand that mayor Mike Parkinson, governor JB Pritzker and Big Guy from Biden Inc. are held responsible for this outrage.

      Delete
    2. Mao is correct. The police should be de-funded.
      Let Glaucon X pay the police out of his own pocket to protect him from black people, if it's so important to him.

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    3. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

      Black people haven't defunded the police anywhere.
      Seventy-four were shot by police so far. Why hasn't the corporate-owned mass media told us each of their names and photos so we can put their images on our homes like Anon-1117. Nobody laid down on a bridge for any of them, why not?

      Delete
    4. I guess you've been ignoring BLM and also the police reforms instituted in various places:

      The Guardian says "But for cities that did intentionally pass cuts, some of the changes were significant. Portland, Oregon, cut $15m from its budget and disbanded a gun violence reduction unit and transit team that had both long been accused of over-policing Black communities. San Francisco officials pledged to divest $120m from police over two years with plans to invest in health programs and workforce training. Minneapolis is using police cuts to launch a mental health team to respond to certain 911 calls.

      New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Baltimore and a dozen other cities have all also reduced police spending. And some of these cities are now demonstrating the impacts of their new budgets."

      Then there is this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/13/at-least-13-cities-are-defunding-their-police-departments/?sh=55c5ed7129e3

      https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2021/05/19/7-myths-about-defunding-the-police-debunked/

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    5. We demand defunding the police everywhere in Illinois.

      ...but the first thing: racist Illinois police dogs should be put down. Now. Or else we will cry.

      Delete
    6. AnonymousJuly 22, 2021 at 12:41 PM

      So who shot those 439 people so far this year? Which is on pace to reach the usual level of shootings.

      Delete
    7. Mao,
      That's harsh. Illinois should keep the handful of police officers that have that aren't shitty at their jobs.

      Delete
    8. Get on with the program, dear dembot: the Illinois police is a tool of WHITE SUPREMACY.

      The police officers who aren't shitty at their jobs are the worst kind: they're competent servants of WHITE SUPREMACY. Are you a racist or somethin'?

      Delete
    9. Me?
      Racist?
      No. I don't vote for Republicans.

      Delete
    10. Ah, liberal-hitlerian, then? Sure, it explains everything.

      Delete
    11. Being called a "liberal-hitlerian " by someone who picks his ass and smells his fingers, isn't the insult you seem to think it is.

      Delete
    12. This way is too much info, dear dembot, but we are not surprised that your boyfriend calls you liberal-hitlerian too.

      Delete
    13. Mao,
      Wiggle your ears. The Establishment's thighs are itchy.

      Delete

  13. This testimony is worth sharing to the world. I am here to tell the world of the good works of Dr BALBOSA. My name is Olivia Bolton am from the UK.. My man left me and my kids for another older woman. It was not so easy for me.. I love my husband so much and I did not lose hope and I kept praying and God finally answered my prayers...i searched online for a spell caster to help me unite me and my lover back forever and i saw so many testimonies of how DR BALBOSA has helped so many people online and i decided to give him a trial … I contacted him and explained to him. He told me not to worry that he will bring back my man within 24 hours. He consulted his powers and assured me not to worry . He did his work and cast the spell and to my greatest surprise, my husband came back the same day begging and crying just as Dr BALBOSA said. He begged me for forgiveness and he promised never to leave me for any reason. We are happy and we live together as one. Contact Dr BALBOSA now and be happy forever. dont lose hope and good luck..

    WHATSAPP AND CALL: +1(206) 485-3691
    WEBSITE: https://balbosasolutionhome.com
    EMAIL: balbosasolutionhome@gmail.com

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  14. DR EMU WHO HELP PEOPLE IN ANY TYPE OF LOTTERY NUMBERS
    It is a very hard situation when playing the lottery and never won, or keep winning low fund not up to 100 bucks, i have been a victim of such a tough life, the biggest fund i have ever won was 100 bucks, and i have been playing lottery for almost 12 years now, things suddenly change the moment i came across a secret online, a testimony of a spell caster called dr emu, who help people in any type of lottery numbers, i was not easily convinced, but i decided to give try, now i am a proud lottery winner with the help of dr emu, i won $1,000.0000.00 and i am making this known to every one out there who have been trying all day to win the lottery, believe me this is the only way to win the lottery.

    Contact him on email Emutemple@gmail.com
    What's app +2347012841542
    Website Https://emutemple.wordpress.com/
    Https://web.facebook.com/Emu-Temple-104891335203341

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  15. LOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
    Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever















    LOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
    Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever

    ReplyDelete
  16. LOTTO, lottery,jackpot.
    Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hello to everyone out here, I am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me … My name is Susan Christian , I live in London, UK. we got married for more than 9 years and have gotten two kids. thing were going well with us and we are always happy. until one day my husband started to behave in a way i could not understand, i was very confused by the way he treat me and the kids. later that month he did not come home again and he called me that he want a divorce, i asked him what have i done wrong to deserve this from him, all he was saying is that he want a divorce that he hate me and do not want to see me again in his life, i was mad and also frustrated do not know what to do, i was sick for more than 2 weeks because of the divorce. i love him so much he was everything to me without him my life is incomplete. i told my sister and she told me to contact a spell caster, i never believe in all this spell casting of a thing. i just want to try if something will come out of it. i contacted Dr Emu for the return of my husband to me, they told me that my husband have been taken by another woman, that she cast a spell on him that is why he hate me and also want us to divorce. then they told me that they have to cast a spell on him that will make him return to me and the kids, they casted the spell and after 24 hours my husband called me and he told me that i should forgive him, he started to apologize on phone and said that he still love me that he did not know what happen to him that he left me. it was the spell that Dr Emu casted on him that make him come back to me today, me and my family are now happy again today. thank you Dr Emu for what you have done for me i would have been nothing today if not for your great spell. i want you my friends who are passing through all this kind of love problem of getting back their husband, wife , or ex boyfriend and girlfriend to contact Dr Emu , if you need his help you can contact him through his private mail: emutemple@gmail.com or you can contact him through his website https://emutemple.wordpress.com/ fb page Https://web.facebook.com/Emu-Temple-104891335203341 and you will see that your problem will be solved without any delay.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Natural Herbal Medicine To Cure {HERPES DISEASE} TOTALLY HERE 
    Do you need a solution to cure your Herpes Disease contact Chief Dr Lucky to help and he will surely help you to cure your Herpes Virus .. I have suffered from Herpes-2 Virus for 4years ago that almost took my life. But one day I was searching the internet and I found Chief Dr Lucky saw so many testimonies on how Chief Dr Lucky helps people in curing their deadly diseases, and I contacted Chief Dr Lucky, asked him for solutions and he started the remedies for my health. He prepared herbal medicine for me and I received the herbal medicine and after using it for 2 weeks my condition has greatly improved, all my symptoms including Abdominal pain, Nausea and vomiting, Loss of appetite stopped, so I went to my doc and was confirmed negative. I am Herpes Virus free! contact the herbal doctor via his email> chiefdrlucky@gmail.com also visit his page> http://facebook.com/chiefdrlucky Website> Https://chiefdrluckyherbaltherapy.wordpress.com/ or his cell number / WhatsApp> +2348132777335

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