Which tribe caused the culture wars?

TUESDAY, JULY 6, 2021

A strange claim, with a kernel of truth: In our view, Kevin Drum advanced a strange claim over the weekend:

He said that we liberals are mainly to blame for the so-called culture wars!

That's actually what he said! Below, you see the headline which appeared on his post, and you see the nugget passage:

If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals

[...]

I've made this point many times before, and I want to make it again more loudly and more plainly today. It is not conservatives who have turned American politics into a culture war battle. It is liberals. And this shouldn't come as a surprise since progressives have been bragging publicly about pushing the Democratic Party leftward since at least 2004.

Now, I'm personally happy about most of this. But that doesn't blind me to the fact that "personally happy" means nothing in politics. What matters is what the median voter feels, and Democrats have been moving further and further away from the median voter for years...

[Drum's italics]

We'll be honest. We don't remember Drum making this claim in the past. (That doesn't mean he didn't.) Plainly, though, he made the claim, loudly and plainly, in last Saturday's post.

Many commenters disagreed with his assessment. We find his assessment hard to agree with too.

In our view, the methodology Drum used to support his claim was badly flawed. This is what he did:

He looked at the way liberal and conservative attitudes have changed in recent decades with respect to a set of seven issues or questions. He found that liberal voters have moved "to the left" on those seven questions to a larger extent than conservative voters have moved "to the right."

We're not even saying that's false! But the seven questions Drum reviewed aren't necessarily the questions which have driven our elections or our ideological wars. Nor is either tribe necessarily "starting a war" just because it moves to the left or the right on some particular issue.

Here's the link to the earlier post where Drum displayed the data sets upon which he based his assessment. (Headline:  "Here’s a partisan history of the culture wars since 2000.") As you can see, first up was the question of "immigration."

Immigration has played a major role in our culture war debates. But this is the polling question Drum chose to work from:

"Do immigrants strengthen our country because of their hard work and talents?" 

He found that Republican opinion has largely stayed the same on this question over the past several decades. By way of contrast, Democratic voters have moved quite strongly in a positive direction, by some 35 points.

That said, our debates about immigration haven't concerned "immigration" per se. Our debates have involved illegal, undocumented or unauthorized immigration—a type of immigration where the tribal divide is so heated that we can't even agree on what we ought to call it.

(We also can't seem to agree on what to call the "Democrat Party." This clown show has persisted for decades, exclusively on the part of the right.)

All in all, we'd say the seven questions Drum reviewed have little to do with the actual topics around which our culture wars have revolved. Kevin's methodology struck us as weak, and the conclusion he drew seemed highly counterintuitive.

That said:

It's very much worth paying attention to the unhelpful ways we liberals do fuel these wars. Also, to the way  the major newspapers in Our Town have sometimes adopted  the conservative line in these stupid debates.

For example, the 2000 election largely turned on a pledge by Candidate Bush—the pledge that he would "restore honor and integrity to the White House."

(Translation: No more oral sex! Also, no more lying about oral sex! No more lying in general, but mainly about oral sex!) 

To help Bush push that pledge along, the New York Times and the Washington Post spent twenty months inventing crazy claims which they crazily claimed Candidate Gore had said. This was said to show that Gore "had a problem with the truth," much like his boss, Bill Clinton. 

Go figure! The major newspapers in Our Town peddled this gong-show for years. In truth, it came from the Post and the Times more than it came from the RNC or the right.

The 2016 election turned on the same general "character" theme. In real time, Drum himself complained, at substantial length, about the way the New York Times kept pimping the various claims about Candidate Clinton's deeply troubling alleged misuse of her deeply troubling emails. 

To an amazingly large extent, that's the topic the election turned on. It represented the final act in a 25-year culture war about alleged "character issues" involving Clinton, Clinton and Gore.

Commenters found Drum's assessment hard to believe. We had the same reaction.

Still, Our Town's unhelpful conduct in this area routinely makes matters worse. In the past few years, it has seemed to us that Our Town has been playing a larger and larger role in the promulgation of these unhelpful, possibly self-destructive wars.

("Defund the police" anybody? Has anybody ever come up with a murkier slogan, or one which was more unhelpful? Unfortunately, there's plenty more where that came from, a point we'll be chasing all week.)

It seems to us that Our Town has increasingly played an unintelligent, losing game in these culture wars. We're going to keep that thought in mind all through the course of this week.

We're hoping to switch ourselves over to Einstein. There aren't a whole lot of them here.


63 comments:

  1. "He said that we liberals are mainly to blame for the so-called culture wars!"

    Duh. Dembot Drum's got that right.

    Except this time it's not just a 'culture war', but a mass-​scale incitement of a race war, a-la Charles Manson's wet dream.

    ReplyDelete
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  3. "Still, Our Town's unhelpful conduct in this area routinely makes matters worse. "

    Somerby runs through the behavior of the media (specifically the NY Times and the Washington Post) as an example of culture wars, then switches to blame "Our Town" without presenting any evidence of what non-journalist liberals have done to deserve that criticism.

    "Defund the police" was a slogan on a sign at BLM protests. It isn't part of the Democratic platform and no Democratic candidate supported it. When discussed, it was made very clear that reallocating police funding to social support might improve policing, but that no one was calling for the disbanding of police forces. Further, analyses of towns where police forces were reorganized, with bad officers weeded out and new procedures developed, were having positive outcomes. Somerby apparently cannot see that the branding of the left with that "defund the police" slogan arose from conservatives and especially Trump and others running for office. More than that, the attack on that slogan was also an attack on BLM itself, an attack on liberal efforts to address racial problems in policing. That may or may not be a culture war issue, but it has been a liberal plank since the 1960s and it remains something liberals care about, something that defines our party. It is not poor branding or left malfeasance as Somerby seems to suggest. The right has succeeded in blaming the left for violence the right created at these rallies, but "defund the police" is not a liberal mistake, as Drum and Somerby both argue (along with Bill Maher and other wanna-be liberals who get off on criticizing the left). The right's complicity in this was encouraged by Bernie and certain progressives who thought that destroying mainstream liberalism would benefit their movement, but it is the right who created and maintains culture war as a political strategy. The left focuses on issues not symbolic gestures or "owning" members of the other party. Somerby's criticism is misplaced. As usual.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "It isn't part of the Democratic platform and no Democratic candidate supported it."

      Oh dear. We love doublethinking dembots. Thanks for the laughs.

      More on how your liberal-hitlerian cult always demanded to increase police funding, please.

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  4. "It seems to us that Our Town has increasingly played an unintelligent, losing game in these culture wars."

    There are some oddballs on the left, as there are on the right. The right uses those oddballs to portray the entire left as dangerous and extremist. But even if the left had no such incidents to be exploited by conservatives, the right would make them up, manufacture them, lie about them, in order to perpetuate conservative outrage, because that is how they motivate their base. That tactic is obvious to all political junkies who follow the news closely, but apparently not Somerby and Drum. Why do they not see this very obvious fact? Drum doesn't seem to be able to define culture war properly. Somerby thinks the left is to blame for everything the right says and does. Neither of them is right on this.

    Bill Clinton has an excellent display at his Presidential Library explaining the rise of Newt Gingrich and Lee Atwater and the well-funded campaign to ruin him personally using a new kind of political tactics on the right. Somerby doesn't appear to be aware of any of that, despite the appearance of several excellent books about it. Drum produces interesting graphs but his political analysis sucks.

    We won with Obama, won but had the election stolen from Hillary, and have won again with Biden. Where is the evidence that Democratic strategies are "losing"? It has taken collusion with a foreign power, fraud, dishonesty and criminal activity for the Republicans to put Trump into office so that he could loot the country on their behalf. But Somerby thinks it is the Democrats who are messed up? We win in a fair fight and we choose not to become as bad as our conservative opponents. That doesn't make us losers. It makes us a party with integrity, something the Republicans sold for tax cuts.

    I do not understand why there seem to be these self-loathing liberals who are intent on dragging down our party with specious criticism. I suspect their motives.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See The Hunting of the President: The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton (2001)
      by Gene Lyons and Joe Conason

      Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth (2003)
      by Joe Conason

      It Can Happen Here: Authoritarian Peril in the Age of Bush (2007)
      by Joe Conason

      American Amnesia (2016)
      by Joe Conason

      And there are others who have written about this too.

      Delete
    2. Sadly, destroying any positive legacy of Clinton became job one in the corporate press. And mostly, the Dems have gone along with it.

      Delete
    3. There wasn't any collusion though. And Biden only won because of a miracle ... a once in a lifetime public health crisis Trump mishandled. Without that, it wouldn't have been close. And we lost seats in the house and didn't take the Senate.

      The question is why self-loathing establishment liberals won't listen to accurate criticism like the kind given here and instead, insanely, blame Russia etc. and the critics themselves.

      Delete
    4. The collusion with Russia is documented and was the reason why Russia was sanctioned. Biden won handily, because Trump bungled the covid response (among other reasons). Every presidency has its challenges and it would be fair to describe all of them as "once in a lifetime events". Bush had 9/11 and a category 5 hurricane that hit New Orleans head on. Those are one-in-a-lifetime too. Democrats do tend to get elected to clean up Republican messes. Biden's election wasn't close at all.

      You don't know what you are talking about. We DID take the senate. And we still hold the South. Further, there are a record number of Republicans who are not seeking reelection. Republican redistricting and gerrymandering have made it difficult to hold a majority, but it is unusual to hold both houses of Congress and the presidency at the same time -- making it ludicrous when critics say that Democrats cannot win elections. The key is not to avoid bad slogans but to ensure fair voting.

      Delete
    5. We did take the Senate yes. Barely and it will be gone in a year and a half. There wasn't any collusion at all. So crazy you still think that. (It's not your fault, you are lied to by the people you support.) But sorry, the election was not stolen from Hillary. (She did steal the nomination from Sanders though as we know from Wikileaks.)
      But a big reason for all this precariousness, the main reason, is the power structures of the establishment Dems and their followers refuse to listen to criticisms and refuse to address to crucial problems of most Americans (that our country is owned and run by oligarchs.). Sorry, Somerby is right, Democrats are messed up. The first step is that you recognize it!

      Delete
    6. There are many forms of The Big Lie. Here you repeat several of them.

      Delete
    7. ' There wasn't any collusion at all. So crazy you still think that. )'

      Ah, still butthurt ? Stick to Hugo Chavez.

      Delete
    8. No - sorry I stick by everything I said. No collusion. Totally pathetic to think that but understandable. Trump campaign colluded with Russia and that cost Hillary the elections????? DELUSIONAL!

      Delete
    9. Hey - believe what you must. You're only as good as your research. If you think Democrats are not messed up you should be good. People will come around eventually to how great they are, right?

      Delete
    10. Stick to Hugo Chavez, man

      Delete
    11. This isn't about "how great" Democrats are. It is about whether their proposals and policies will benefit people.

      @8:03 -- You are not entitled to your own set of facts. The world provides a rude awakening to those who will not face reality.

      Delete
    12. What are the facts of collusion? What are the facts that it "stole" the election from Hillary?? THERE AIN'T ANY!!!

      Sorry baby.

      Delete
    13. Dem proposals and policies benefit the rich 1%. Sorry sweetheart. Sorry for the rude awakening.

      Delete
    14. Not as much as Republican ones do.

      Delete
    15. Uh .. OK. But you can see where people wouldn't get excited about one party in a two party system whose proposals and policies benefit the rich 1% slightly less than the only other party.

      And there was no collusion at all. That was always totally made up and it's now been fully debunked. Some journalists will weakly claim there was - based on the Senate Intelligence Report but it's really not true. They are grasping at straws to make people like yourself feel better and make themselves feel better for being so wrong for all those years. The whole proposition was absurd from the start. The CIA and the FBI fed the leaks about it because they hated Trump.

      Hillary lost because huge swaths of people felt like both parties only pretend to have their interests in mind. And they are right.

      Delete
    16. I didn't say "slightly". You did.

      "Hillary lost because..." and that's why she overwhelmingly won the popular vote? You aren't making any sense.

      Delete
    17. It's your business if you think the policies of the Democratic party benefit the top 1% significantly less than the Republican party does. There's no evidence that that is true. And yes, Hillary lost because she was not able to convince enough people to support her. She was not even able to get a thousand people to come see her speak. Meanwhile her opponent was filling stadiums everywhere he went. She pinned her hopes on firing up another ritualized big money-led coalition of minorities and particular groups instead of making broad economic appeals. But voters didn't respond adequately enough for her to win because the fruits of the recovery at the time had gone lopsidedly to the very richest Americans and many voters knew it and either stayed home or threw a Molotov cocktail into the system by voting for Trump.

      And there was no collusion. Sorry sweetheart. That's just the way it is.

      Delete
    18. Plus Hillary's email protocols were considered a sign of corruption by the Right-wing (mainstream) media.

      The corporations who own the media got a HUGE tax break from Trump,but that's because Hilary used the term "deplorables" to describe fascists.

      Delete
    19. 9:55,
      So why do Republicans call Democrats "Marxists" and "Socialists"? Is it because never in the history of mankind, has a Right-winger made a good faith argument?

      Delete
    20. 'And there was no collusion'

      Stick to Hugo Chavez, kiddo

      Delete
    21. What does that mean 'stick to Hugo Chavez'? If you think there was collusion break off the proof nigga.

      Delete
    22. "Biden only won because of a miracle..."

      Is it really a "miracle" that Trump tried to gaslight a viral pandemic like it was some common NY Times political reporter? He's a standard-issue Reagan Republican (from the bigotry all the way down to the failed economic theories). I wouldn't describe a Republican politician using that kind of top-notch Right-wing logic a "miracle".

      Delete
    23. #8:32 -- what are you, 12 years old?

      Delete
    24. The occurrence of the pandemic was the miracle.

      Delete
    25. A real miracle would be a Right-winger making a good faith argument. That "miracle" didn't happen in 2020.

      Delete
  5. And this is part of the Republican contribution to the culture wars:

    "God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters
    by Sarah Posner and Joe Conason | Jan 22, 2008"

    And Somerby doesn't figure in the courting of the alt-right by Republican politicians. The intermingling of the alt-right and Trump supporters is described by David Neiwert:

    Alt-America: The Rise of the Radical Right in the Age of Trump
    by David A. Neiwert | Oct 17, 2017

    This was a clandestine part of the culture wars that has now been brought into the open by Trump and embraced by quite a few elected Republicans in Congress. But the left is responsible for the culture wars? I don't think so.

    ReplyDelete
  6. While the right has the left running around discussing culture wars, here is what Republicans are doing:

    "The “coup part 2” is being openly discussed at Trump’s rallies now:

    1. Suppress votes
    2. Flip the House
    3. Make Trump Speaker
    4. Impeach and remove Biden & Kamala
    5. Speaker Trump becomes POTUS again b/c line of the Presidential line of succession"

    The so-called culture wars are a distraction from the main goals of the right. And today we have Kevin Drum and Bob Somerby furthering that distraction instead of keeping their eyes on what the right is actually doing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hope Drum responds on his blog. We’e got two really smart people here. It will be great.

      Delete
    2. 'And today we have Kevin Drum and Bob Somerby furthering that distraction instead of keeping their eyes on what the right is actually doing.'

      Somerby always keeps his eyes on the right, so he can repeat right wing talking points from Carlson and others in furtherance of Trumptard goals.

      Drum, OTOH, deserves to be taken seriously by the left (and centrists like me).

      Delete
  7. Link Drum but this is Wonk at its worst. Which major Democratic Pol has pushed "Defend The Police?" Pardon me, I've got to hit the Gun store, the War on Christas continues in six months.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bill Clinton wasn't Gore's boss.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, he was, since Gore was his Vice President.

      Delete
    2. VP is an elected office. Clinton couldn't fire Gore.

      Delete
    3. He could ask him to resign and he could pressure congress to impeach him. How did Nixon get rid of Spiro Agnew? Further, the VP takes direction from the President.

      There are lots of situations in business where someone works for a supervisor but cannot be fired because of a union.

      Delete
  9. "Newsmax host Carl Higbie triggered anger from Eric Trump over the holiday weekend after he reported that there is a liberal plot to smear July 4 fireworks as "racist.""

    But Kevin Drum thinks liberals are responsible for the culture wars.

    ReplyDelete
  10. OK, that's enough. Tell us about Einstein.

    ReplyDelete
  11. From Tristero at Digby's blog. This is what systemic racism looks like:

    "Easily the best film I’ve seen in well over a year [Summer of Soul], bar none, an opinion more than widely shared. There is little I can add to what’s already been said about the great performances, the excellent montage of music and documentary — clearly done by someone who really understands music — and the infuriating story which, if you haven’t heard. is:

    This amazing footage, shot in 1969, sat on a shelf, unseen and unheard, for over fifty years because no one was interested in releasing a film that featured nothing but black music performed in front of a black crowd.

    The question is why weren’t they were interested in releasing this film? One thing is certain: it had nothing to do with whether the film would make money. The performers are A-List artists with huge — including number one — hits at the time. Among the acts: Sly Stone, Hugh Masekela, a mind-boggling Stevie Wonder, The Staples Singers, the Fifth Dimension — of course it would have done well.

    The most plausible conclusion for its disappearance is that the dominant white culture did not want an unabashedly positive celebration of black artistry and community out in the larger world. It may not have even been a conscious decision on the part of the (white) people who turned this project down. It just didn’t fit the dominant mindset of the decision makers.

    That is textbook systemic racism. As a default attitude, Black culture gets disappeared, perpetuating myths of abjection and marginalization. In this case, systemic racism deprived the Black community, not to mention the larger American and world community, of a universally appealing expression of joy, companionship, and humanity."

    Somerby won't admit that racism is a thing, but he is wrong.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tristero is a naive idiot. Hollywood would release anything they thought would make money. The dominant white culture did not want an unabashedly positive celebration of black artistry and community out in the larger world so they shot the fucking movie then decided not to release it??? You people are complete fools. The R bomb is all you know.

      Delete
    2. 11:45,
      Agreed. Hollywood didn't think a film about positive black people would make money with white audiences. Just shows you that racism doesn't ex....I'll come in again.

      Delete
    3. Why did the dominant white culture release Wattstax? Or Shaft? Or Sounder?

      You people are total morons.

      Delete
    4. The movies you list were during the civil rights movement of the late 60s and early 70s. Shaft is a black exploitation film. Sounder was good -- it was done by the same director who did Norma Rae, noted for his socially conscious films. He also directed Paul Newman films, so I assume he had the clout to get a picture he believed in made and distributed, if not widely. It was an excellent film because he did excellent work.

      The existence of a few token films doesn't prove your point about what Hollywood believed would be commercial. And you haven't addressed the issue of why white audiences won't support black films. Even Tyler Perry films have mostly black audiences.

      I assume you know that there used to be two separate film industries and separate theaters, showing black and white films, just as there were two separate movie industries, one for so-called "race" records.

      Delete
    5. typo: two separate music industries

      Delete
    6. "Hollywood didn't think a film about positive black people would make money with white audiences. "

      Africa, dear dembot, is your answer. Their excellent movie studios do nothing but films "about positive black people".

      It's paradise, paradise there, we tell ya. Plenty of inexpensive flights available, get your ticket today.

      Delete
    7. "black exploitation film"

      Oh dear. It's "blaxploitation", dear dembot.

      Delete
    8. Anonymouse4:31 AM
      “Why did the dominant white culture release Wattstax? Or Shaft? Or Sounder?”

      You people are total morons.”

      Damn right…

      Right on…

      Can ya dig it?…

      Delete
    9. No. Go away.

      Delete
    10. Shaft was a black hero, like Superfly. It was directed by Gordon Parks. Yes, thank you - the country used be segregated. Everyone knows this moron. That doesn't mean Summer of Soul wasn't released because of racism. Why would they shoot it in the first place bird brain?

      Delete
    11. Must be a Billy Joel fan.

      Delete
    12. White audiences don't support black films because they are made for blacks. Duh.

      Delete
    13. The things that make that obvious to you are the things that make you racist.

      Delete
  12. From a new paper published Monday in The Lancet:

    "We believe the strongest clue from new, credible, and peer-reviewed evidence in the scientific literature3, 4, 5, 6 is that the virus evolved in nature, while suggestions of a laboratory-leak source of the pandemic remain without scientifically validated evidence that directly supports it in peer-reviewed scientific journals.7, 8"

    Someone needs to tell Bill Maher and Jon Stewart. It is distressing when so-called liberals are suckered into conspiracy theories generated by the right wing. This isn't exactly a culture war, but it supports the anti-mask, anti-vaccine war that Trump has waged against the American people and our culture. Anti-Christmas fear-mongering is one thing. This part of the culture war has killed people in the name of politics. This needs to be laid at the right's feet and stopped, because it is bad for people.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Kevin Drum's analysis is giving aid and comfort to the right, just as Somerby's ongoing attacks on liberals do:

    https://theweek.com/politics/1002300/progressives-are-aggressors-in-the-culture-war-too

    Damon Linker has picked up and carried the ball for Drum. Linker describes himself as "not a Democrat but an anti-Republican." I suppose that is better than being an actual Republican (which means a Trump supporter these days). But Drum's essay is doing active harm to liberal causes by encouraging The Other, with help from people who should know better.

    ReplyDelete
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    Hello all my viewers, I am very happy for sharing this great testimonies,The best thing that has ever happened in my life is how I win the lottery euro million mega jackpot. I am a Woman who believe that one day I will win the lottery. finally my dreams came through when I email believelovespelltemple@gmail.com and tell him I need the lottery numbers. I have spend so much money on ticket just to make sure I win. But I never know that winning was so easy until the day I meant the spell caster online which so many people has talked about that he is very great in casting lottery spell, . so I decide to give it a try.I contacted this great Dr Believe and he did a spell and he gave me the winning lottery numbers. But believe me when the draws were out I was among winners. I win 30,000 million Dollar. Dr Believe truly you are the best, all thanks to you forever

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