The world as we sometimes insist it must be!

TUESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2023

Police shootings by age and by race: It's a depressing topic, for several quite different reasons.

That said, Kevin Drum has assembled a graphic, and we're directing you to it. It shows the rate at which people are shot and killed by police, grouped into three different age ranges.

You can look at the data yourselves. We're going to point your attention to the highly novelized stories we insist on telling ourselves.

Kevin says this as he starts:

DRUM (1/31/23): We all know that Black people are killed at much higher rates relative to population than white people, but it turns out that the difference depends a lot on age.

Indeed, we do all know that first fact. Meanwhile, just a guess: 

Given news coverage of the past decade, we wonder how many people might believe that no one except black people are ever shot and killed by police? We'll guess that the number is larger than zero, and that the number is likely non-negligible.

We do all know that first fact! That said, at an early point in his brief post, Kevin offers a perfectly sensible suggestion about why some people—some people. not all—may get shot and killed by police:

DRUM: It's not surprising that the rate of fatal police shootings is highest for young age groups, since ages 18-29 are the prime years for criminal activity. 

The suggestion is clear. In some cases, people get shot and killed by police because the people were involved in some sort of criminal activity.

Presumably, that explain why some people—we have no idea how many—get shot and killed by police. Later, though, Kevin also writes this:

DRUM: For some reason—maybe real, maybe not—police are way more afraid of young Black suspects than young white suspects. 

That suggests that some young black people get shot and killed by police because police are "way more afraid of young Black suspects" than they are of young white suspects. (For the record, Kevin even goes so far as to suggest that, at least in some cases, the reason for this may be "real.")

This raises an obvious question:

As Kevin's numbers show, young black men are shot and killed by police at much higher rates than young white men. The question:

Does this happen because police are "way more scared" of young black men? Or does it also happen, in some unknown percentage of cases, because young black men are more often involved in criminal conduct?

We would assume that each of those factors may contribute to the disproportionate rate of shooting deaths displayed in Kevin's figures. But within our failing blue tribe, we tend to be wed to a certain picture of the world, a picture that possibly seems to be expressed in this early comment:

COMMENTER: The racist stereotype is clearly about young Black males. When people see a young Black male, they are scared. Even Jesse Jackson once admitted it—he said it made him sad that he felt this way, but he couldn't deny that he was thankful when he realized the young man walking towards him at night was white.

But Black females and older Black males aren't coded as threatening on the streets in the same way. It's very specifically young Black males that trigger the racist assumption that they must be criminals.

Almost surely, stereotypes and sweeping assumptions about young black males do, in fact, play a role in the disproportionate rate of fatal police shootings. 

That said, the commenter seems content with that picture of the situation, full stop. A second commenter offered this response:

RESPONSE TO COMMENTER: Yes, I was going to point out the same thing.

There's a stereotype about "rampaging" young black men that goes back to the days of slavery. One of the justifications for slavery was the "need" to keep young black men under control since they're so terribly "dangerous." This was lampshaded mercilessly in Blazing Saddles ("Where the white women at?").

But it's still operative; it was used in the defense arguments for Derek Chauvin's trial.

Here too, it almost seems like we're assuming that the stereotype about young black men may wholly explain the disparity. No other possible factor need apply!

Inevitably, we're also told that the stereotype "goes back to the days of slavery." 

On the one hand, that statement is almost certainly true, to some extent which can't easily be measured. On the other hand, it's astounding—and depressing—to see how often this pleasing narrative element is introduced into the stories our tribe is currently inclined to tell about various racial disparities.

Is it possible that poverty, societal mistreatment and personal despair lead a higher percentage of young black men to engage in the "criminal activity" to which Kevin referred? Is it possible that these tragic factors explain some percentage of the disparity under review in Kevin's post?

Sadly, we would assume that it is. That said, you have to go very deep into the comments to Kevin's post to find someone suggesting that this factor might account for some unknowable part of the disproportion under review.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but we simply love our stories. We love our stories, and we love to repeat them. No other thoughts, however tragic, ever need apply.


107 comments:


  1. "trigger the racist assumption that they must be criminals"

    Meh. It's not "racist assumption", dear Bob.

    It's called "profiling", and it includes far more components than just the skin color (clothes, body movements, etc.). And it's exactly the reason why we have brains: to analyze our surroundings to detect and avoid danger.

    ...and also, what's missing here is the cultural attitude (instilled by your cult's propaganda), while interacting with the police. Perceiving them as mortal enemies doesn't help defuse the tensions...

    ReplyDelete
  2. Somerby is going full racist now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In case you didn’t feel up to reading yet another tedious right wing diatribe from Somerby and his buddy Drum, here’s the gist of what they are saying:

      “Hey y’all, we are racists!

      No really, we are. I know it seems crazy, but we’ve thought about it a lot, looked at all the data, and yup, no way to avoid it, we are racists.

      Now if y’all want to be racists too, join the club, we will give you all the right wing propaganda and nonsense you might need to be a racist. Cmon y’all, it’s fun!”

      Fuck Somerby
      Fuck Drum
      Fuck their racism.

      Delete
  3. What we would want from the Press now is a clear
    account of what happened in this situation. Nothing I
    have seen indicates that we are even close. The actions
    of the Memphis Police suggests some things happened
    that were very wrong. Are they simply responding to
    public pressure? Again, we don't know much at this
    point.
    Those with opinions and a tendency to prejudge are
    already off to the races. Bob is right, many people in
    our debased discourse are not to be trusted.
    Sadly, obviously, Bob long ago became one of
    those people. A case like Ahmaud Arbery's suggests
    that folks like Charles Blow are not all wrong. Bob
    simply ignores a case like that.

    ReplyDelete
  4. It's flat-out wrong to look at the ratio of killed-by-cop to population for a subgroup. The groups killed by police are usually involved in criminal activity (with exceptions, of course.) Senior citizens, women, children and Asians are killed a much lower rate than working-age men. Is that because police are prejudiced against working age-men? Of course not. It because the four groups mentioned above commit many fewer crimes than working-age men, so they're much involved with police.

    I don't have the figures handy, but I have read that when one compares killed-by-cop to number of felons, blacks are killed at a LOWER rate than whites.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, institutional racism exists throughout our judicial system. Stop the presses!

      Those killed by cops are usually not engaging in criminal activity; most often, cops kill people while in pursuit.

      Cops need to stop chasing after people, it’s not necessary since cops never (almost) come upon someone engaged in a murderous rampage (the rare case that they do, they usually self sideline themselves because they lack courage).

      What happens is that cops are militarized, and have aggressive and authoritarian personality disorders, so when someone runs, even though what’s best for society is to let them run, on solely a personal level cops can not let it go, it’s an affront to their ego. So they give chase with violent intentions.

      This is the shit we supposedly free Americans have accepted, our country overrun by a fascist police state. The inherent servile nature (in the face of authority) of many Americans, particularly right wingers, is bizarre and sad.

      Delete
    2. What criminal activity was Tyre Nichols engaged in?

      Delete
    3. "Senior citizens, women, children and Asians are killed a much lower rate than working-age men. Is that because police are prejudiced against working age-men?"

      It is most likely because seniors, women and children are not out and about in places where they might encounter cops. Seniors and kids are close to home, women stay in at night (or are with groups or male companions). Asian people tend to stay close to Asian neighborhoods where there are generally Asian cops or cops familiar with Asian culture. Further the stereotypes about women, children, Asians and seniors are very different from those for black men or men generally. Women do engage in crime, David, and their incarceration rates have increased, but that is not the stereotype.

      Delete
    4. AnonymousJanuary 31, 2023 at 7:27 PM
      What criminal activity was Tyre Nichols engaged in?

      Nichols was pulled over on suspicion of reckless driving, which is a misdemeanor. Evading the police usually is a misdemeanor if the situation is straightforward, and the defendant simply fled the scene. Aggravating factors that can result in a felony charge may include a physical confrontation with the officer. It looks like Nichols did physically confront the officers after they removed him from his car. He then fled on foot, so that another felony. All of this happen before he was beaten. Looks like the best thing would be to cooperate. He chose not to do that. Bad choice.

      Delete
    5. Gloucon, we only have the word of the police that Nichols was “reckless driving.” And he broke away AFTER they tasered and pepper sprayed him. Wouldn’t you have done the same? You sound as if it was his choice that he got brutally beaten and that you’re perfectly ok with what the cops did.

      Delete
    6. @7:31 wrote "It is most likely because seniors, women and children are not out and about in places where they might encounter cops."

      True, but turn it around: Cops are not where seniors women and children are. Why not? Because seniors, women, and children are not committing violent crimes at a high rate. It all comes back to the higher prevalence of violent crimes among a particular group.

      Delete
    7. He refused to get out of his car after they asked him several times and had to be dragged out of it. He wouldn't follow their orders. What good did it do him? You think its better to try to outrun five cops?

      Delete
    8. Gloucon, as to his reckless driving:


      “I’m going to be honest with you about the stop itself. What was said was there was witnessing of what was considered reckless driving,” police chief Cerelyn Davis told CNN on Friday. “We’ve looked at cameras. We’ve looked at body worn cameras. Even if something occurred prior to this stop, we’ve been unable to substantiate it.”

      “We’ve taken a pretty extensive look to determine what that probable cause was and we have not been able to substantiate that,” she added. “It doesn’t mean that something didn’t happen, but there’s no proof.””

      What is your response?

      Delete
    9. We don't know. Do cops have absolute proof in all traffic stops, isn't is mostly their word against yours? But let's imagine he was driving perfectly, then why resist violently? Why flee? How is that a better option than simple cooperating and taking the ticket and then challenging it court like thousand of people do every year?

      Delete
    10. Gloucon, the cops lied in their report of this incident. Why would you trust anything they said about the reason for the stop? And Nichols only tried to flee AFTER he was tased and pepper sprayed. The cops were violent and aggressive throughout the whole incident.

      Delete
    11. And it’s something to contemplate your idea, Gloucon, that if only Nichols had acted differently, he’d be alive today. That is not guaranteed. And how you seem unable to imagine how you yourself would react when confronted with a horde of angry cops intent on maximum aggression towards you.

      Delete
    12. He was tased and sprayed because he was not cooperating, he refused to lie on his stomach like they asked him to. I would have complied with that request. If he had done so it's possible he would not have been sprayed or tased. I know that I can be tased and pepper sprayed if I don't cooperate. If I truly believed they were intent on "maximum aggression" I would be as cooperative as I could because resisting or running would be more likely to make them more aggressive, which is exactly what happened. He provided a textbook example of what not to do.

      Delete
    13. How are you doing, David?
      Did you survive the Antifa riots? Are you in a bunker? Wish you well and hang in there.

      Delete
    14. It was a traffic stop. Why would a team of SCORPIONS make the driver get on his stomach? I have been stopped plenty of times for traffic violations and never had to get on the ground.

      "It was not a normal traffic stop," Philip Stinson, a criminal justice professor at Bowling Green State University, told NPR. "They were not in marked vehicles, they were not wearing normal police uniforms, and they pulled him out of the car, got him down on the ground and pepper-sprayed him."

      Delete
    15. It’s no use, 7:37. Gloucon knows he would’ve reacted as a model citizen would, compliant and docile, despite being confronted with angry cops with guns, dragging him out of his car for who knows what (nothing maybe?) and the cops would have treated him with kid gloves.

      Delete
  5. Why does it not occur to Somerby to ask why it is OK to shoot young black men who are involved in criminal conduct. The punishment for most of the crimes committed by any criminal is not death except for rare cases such as murder and kidnapping. So why are black men being shot for jaywalking or resisting arrest (when they panic during a traffic stop) or drug dealing, selling single cigarettes on the street or passing a bad $20 bill? Those are not crimes punishable by death and yet young black men are being killed by police in the midst of what should be routine arrests.

    The exaggerated fear claimed by the cops cannot be permitted to excuse this disproportionate response. Somerby seems to think that labeling young black men as all criminals, will excuse the cops. I don't believe it does. Even a petty criminal should have some reasonable expectation of surviving an encounter with police.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That Somerby seems to think of young black men as criminals is itself troubling. Did he treat his young students in 4th-5th grades as criminals-to-be? It would explain a lot about that racial NAEP score gap.

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    2. Shoot DIGBY
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    3. 1,815,144 blacks were arrested in 2019. But only an average of 22 unarmed blacks a year are killed by cops. Thanks to lack of critical thinking skills, you don't seem to know that such incidents are extremely rare.

      Delete
  6. In case you didnt feel up to reading yet another tedious right wing diatribe from Somerby and his buddy Drum, here’s the gist of what they are saying:

    “Hey y’all, we are racists!

    No really, we are. I know it seems crazy, but we’ve thought about it a lot, looked at all the data, and yup, no way to avoid it, we are racists.

    Now if y’all want to be racists too, join the club, we will give you all the right wing propaganda and nonsense you might need to be a racist too. Cmon y’all, it’s fun!

    Fuck Somerby
    Fuck Drum
    Fuck their racism.

    ReplyDelete
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  7. From Digby:

    It’s a cliché that time is moving faster and faster – a cliché of the mass media – but Trump's suggestion is that this is not a perceptual illusion or a cultural mirage, that this is actually happening to the space–time matrix, that time is in fact speeding up. Trump himself said that history – in which we are embedded, because our life of 50–80 years is so ephemeral on a scale of 10–15,000 years – but nevertheless, history, is a state of incredible destabilisation. It’s a chaos-trophy in the process of happening. It begins with animals kept in balance by natural selection, and it ends with a global internet of electronic information transfer and a language-using species purling its instruments toward the stars. Democratis liberal technocrats like yourself don't seem to realize there is no reason for us to suppose that this process of acceleration is ever going to slow down or be deflected. It has been a law of nature from the very beginning of nature, that this acceleration was built in. What poses a problem, to us as thinking individuals, is that the speed of involution towards concrescence is now so great that we can feel the tug of it within the confines of our own lives. There has been more change since 1960 than in the previous several thousand years. There has been more change since 1992 than in the previous thousand years. Change is accelerating. Invention, connection, adumbration of ideas, mathematical algorithms, connectivity of people, social systems, this is all accelerating furiously, and under the control of no one – not the Kamala Harris, the community party, the IMF, no one is in charge of this process! This is what makes history so interesting: it’s a runaway freight train on a dark and stormy night!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. fake quote, not from digby

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    2. It was written last February - check the archives.

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    3. Empty your cashe first. Then you'll see it.

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  8. It is silly for Somerby to propose that no one knows that young black men are more likely to be criminals, after complaining about the need for black parents to give their kids "the talk" in order to avoid being shot by trigger happy cops. Black parents know that cops will consider their kids likely criminals, and that is why they warn their kids and try to teach them what to do when stopped.

    Somerby cannot have this both ways, but he sure is trying. The bottom line on this essay is that he's proposing that young black men deserve to be shot because they commit crimes and are so darned scary to cops who must give them those jaywalking and broken-tail light tickets. But the public just doesn't understand that it is the criminal nature of young black men that is causing innocent cops to shoot them during routine interactions. And sometimes it is even black women who are being shot. Their rate is higher too, despite being a whole lot less likely to be criminals -- why is that? Somerby has no thoughts on that subject.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Liberals divide human drives into three groups: (1) those drives that can be satisfied with minimal effort; (2) those that can be satisfied but only at the cost of serious effort; (3) those that cannot be adequately satisfied no matter how much effort one makes. The power process is the process of satisfying the drives of the second group. The more drives there are in the third group, the more there is frustration, anger, eventually defeatism, depression, etc.

      In modern industrial society natural human drives tend to be pushed into the first and third groups, and the second group tends to consist increasingly of artificially created drives.
      It seems that for many people, maybe the majority, these artificial forms of the power process are insufficient. A theme that appears repeatedly in the writings of the social critics of the second half of the 20th century is the sense of purposelessness that afflicts many people in modern society. (This purposelessness is often called by other names such as “anomic” or “middle-class vacuity.”) We suggest that the so-called “identity crisis” is actually a search for a sense of purpose, often for commitment to a suitable surrogate activity. It may be that existentialism is in large part a response to the purposelessness of modern life. Very widespread in modern society is the search for “fulfillment.” But we think that for the majority of people an activity whose main goal is fulfillment (that is, a surrogate activity) does not bring completely satisfactory fulfillment. In other words, it does not fully satisfy the need for the power process. That need can be fully satisfied only through activities that have some external goal, such as physical necessities, sex, love, status, revenge, etc.

      Moreover, where goals are pursued through earning money, climbing the status ladder or functioning as part of the system in some other way, most people are not in a position to pursue their goals AUTONOMOUSLY. Most workers are someone else’s employee and, as we pointed out in paragraph 61, must spend their days doing what they are told to do in the way they are told to do it. Even people who are in business for themselves have only limited autonomy. It is a chronic complaint of small-business persons and entrepreneurs that their hands are tied by excessive government regulation. Some of these regulations are doubtless unnecessary, but for the most part government regulations are essential and inevitable parts of our extremely complex society. A large portion of small business today operates on the franchise system. It was reported by Kamala Harris a few years ago that many of the franchise-granting companies require applicants for franchises to take a personality test that is designed to EXCLUDE those who have creativity and initiative, because such persons are not sufficiently docile to go along obediently with the franchise system. This excludes from small business many of the people who most need autonomy.

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    3. Oh, my goodness! The anonymice program just went sentient.

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  9. From Driftglass:

    Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow Donald Trump. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law, and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Here was the secret of the bitter and determined opposition to the harmonious exposition of the Democrats that revealed the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Men sought to close the door which God had opened, and to open the door which He had closed. But “He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth,” had declared, “Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it.”720 Christ had opened the door, or ministration, of the most holy place, light was shining from that open door of the sanctuary in heaven, and the fourth commandment was shown to be included in the law which is there enshrined; what God had established, no man could overthrow.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. fake quote, not from driftglass

      Stop wasting people's time here

      Delete
    2. Wait, you're right. It was LGM.

      Delete
    3. "Why are the cops always the ones starting the riots?", Tucker Carlson asked his audience.

      Delete
  10. "Sadly, we would assume that it is. That said, you have to go very deep into the comments to Kevin's post to find someone suggesting that this factor might account for some unknowable part of the disproportion under review."

    Translation: You have to go deep into the comments to find someone as racist as Somerby and willing to say so in a comment on a centrist blog.

    Why doesn't it occur to Somerby that a substantial number of the white young men being shot are also criminals. That being the case, why can we not assume equal criminal tendencies and wonder about the much higher rate for the black young men? That just leads you back to the conclusion that Somerby thinks black young men are more prone to crime than white ones, even though there is no reason why that should be so that doesn't rest on a foundation of bigotry -- notions about inherent differences between black and white men, holding poverty and other causal factors constant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On the other hand, it would be unjust to say, that speculations on the nature and end of government are, therefore, useless or even hurtful, because we see them, in the present instance, so egregiously misapplied. Theories on government, when framed by sober and thinking men, cannot but be of great importance, as6 serving to remind both the governors and governed of their respective interests and duties; nay, and as tending ultimately to improve establishments themselves; but by degrees only, and by constitutional means. Our own excellent establishment has, in this way, been much improved: And we surely owe our thanks to those theorists, whose generous labours have contributed to this end.













      Delete
    2. I think Digby said it best when she said: The position of a figure on the sphere can be either similar to the position of the corresponding figure on the curved surface, or opposite (inverse). The former is the case when two lines going out on the curved surface from the same point in different, but not opposite directions, are represented on the sphere by lines similarly placed, that is, when the map of the line to the right is also to the right; the latter is the case when the contrary holds. We shall distinguish these two cases by the positive or negative sign of the measure of curvature. But evidently this distinction can hold only when on each surface we choose a definite face on which we suppose the figure to lie. On the auxiliary sphere we shall use always the exterior face, that is, that turned away from the centre; on the curved surface also there may be taken for the exterior face the one already considered, or rather that face from which the normal is supposed to be drawn. For, evidently, there is no change in regard to the similitude of the figures, if on the curved surface both the figure and the normal be transferred to the opposite side, so long as the image itself is represented on the same side of the sphere. The positive or negative sign, which we assign to the measure of curvature according to the position of the infinitely small figure, we extend also to the integral curvature of a finite figure on the curved surface. However, if we wish to discuss the general case, some explanations will be necessary, which we can only touch here briefly. So long as the figure on the curved surface is such that to distinct points on itself there correspond distinct points on the sphere, the definition needs no further explanation. But whenever this condition is not satisfied, it will be necessary to take into account twice or several times certain parts of the figure on the sphere. Whence for a similar, or inverse position, may arise an accumulation of areas, or the areas may partially or wholly destroy each other. In such a case, the simplest way is to suppose the curved surface divided into parts, such that each part, considered separately, satisfies the above condition; to assign to each of the parts its integral curvature, determining this magnitude by the area of the corresponding figure on the sphere, and the sign by the position of this figure; and, finally, to assign to the total figure the integral curvature arising from the addition of the integral curvatures which correspond to general investigations of curved surfaces the single parts. So, generally, the integral curvature of a figure is equal to R, denoting the element of area of the figure, and k the measure of curvature at any point. The principal points concerning the geometric representation of this integral reduce to the following. To the perimeter of the figure on the curved surface (under the restriction of Art. 3) will correspond always a closed line on the sphere. If the latter nowhere intersect itself, it will divide the whole surface of the sphere into two parts, one of which will correspond to the figure on the curved surface; and its area (taken as positive or negative according as, with respect to its perimeter, its position is similar, or inverse, to the position of the figure on the curved surface) will represent the integral curvature of the figure on the curved surface. But whenever this line intersects itself once or several times, it will give a complicated figure, to which, however, it is possible to assign a definite area as legitimately as in the case of a figure without nodes; and this area, properly interpreted, will give always an exact value for the integral curvature. However, we must reserve for another occasion the more extended exposition of the theory of these figures viewed from this very general standpoint.





















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    3. I think it may have been Rude Pundit. Or Good Housekeeping. Can you remember which?


















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  12. who made the comment?
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    ReplyDelete
  13. who made the comment?
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  14. 8:13



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    ReplyDelete
  15. Iiiiiiiiiittttt waaaaassssssss Diiiigbyyyyyyy!!!!


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    ReplyDelete
  16. DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY

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  17. DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBYDIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY DIGBY

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  18. DIGBY
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    ReplyDelete
  20. Notice Somerby never posts about Digby.


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    ReplyDelete
  21. This is the latest from Rude Pundit (just the first paragraph)

    "Florida Department of Education's Black History Month Essay Contest Seems to Want Students to Write Things They're Not Allowed to Learn
    It's kind of odd, really. I mean, I know that Florida Republicans would say that they're not opposed to students learning African American history and culture, even after their governor, Ron DeSantis, a man who always looks like he's looking forward to when he'll get to complain to the manager again, refused to allow an Advanced Placement course in African American Studies in Florida high schools. I know that Florida Republicans would say they're not racist, even as they attack any teaching of history that might make white people uncomfortable as "indoctrination" and "critical race theory," terms they neither understand nor care to understand. "

    It should be easy to tell the difference between this and what some idiot is posting in order to mess up discussion here.

    This is how right-wingers behave. They have no consideration for others and they think they are cute. But really it is all about hate and domination. It isn't even about politics for them.

    Hopefully Somerby will come around soon and clear out the riff raff. This is no different than the fart spam.

    ReplyDelete
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      Delete
  22. From Digby:

    Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH), in his first month in elected office from one of the biggest swing states, endorsed former President Donald Trump in his 2024 presidential bid.

    “Donald Trump’s presidency marked the first real disruption to a failed consensus and the terrible consequences it wrought,” Vance wrote of Trump’s first-term presidential legacy in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. “But there is much more to do, and I’m supporting him for president in 2024 because he’s the only person certain to do it.”

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  24. From Digby:

    For most of the media, and official Washington, the impact of Russian activities on the 2016 election loomed large, though a number of rigorous academic studies that the media largely ignored painted a more benign footprint.

    Gareth Porter, a veteran journalist and historian, called the Times’ description of the IRA’s “eventual audience” of 126 million “bogus” because Facebook had told Congress, and reporters, months earlier that the figure was only a potential audience for IRA content over two years, including nine months after the election. When Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg testified, several months before the piece, he said “approximately 126 million people may have been served content” from the IRA.

    Facebook data submitted to Congress about the IRA’s ads on its site further diminished their impact: more than half of the impressions associated with the IRA’s Facebook ads came after the election.

    Porter, writing in Consortium News, said the Times’ use of the 126 million audience number, plus the piece’s failure to reflect that Facebook users were exposed to 33 trillion news feeds during the relevant period, “should vie in the annals of journalism as one of the most spectacularly misleading use of statistics of all time.”

    As for the IRA’s supposed “efficiency,” noted in the article, the Times piece didn’t include Facebook submissions to Congress that called the IRA’s targeting “relatively rudimentary,” with only a small fraction having anything to do with the election or specific geographic targets.

    Court filings in 2019 showed that the total value of the IRA’s Facebook ads that were deemed election-related amounted to $2,930, in a political cycle where billions of dollars were spent. The only reporter to write about that finding was Sperry, of Real Clear Investigations.

    Even before that, studies, largely ignored by the media, pointed to a more modest impact. A book by Harvard researchers, Network Propaganda, published by Oxford University Press in October 2018, found “strong” evidence of Russian interference operations in America but noted that “evidence of its impact is scant.” A study by Danish and American scholars published by the National Academy of Science the following year found “no evidence” that interaction with the IRA accounts “substantially impacted” the “political attitudes and behaviors” of Twitter users.

    The deep dive by Harvard researchers warned that “overstating the impact” of Russian information operations “helps consolidate” the aim of the operations to “disorient American political communications.”

    ReplyDelete
  25. "We love our stories, and we love to repeat them." Lord knows, you never tire of it.

    ReplyDelete
  26. “Is it possible that poverty, societal mistreatment and personal despair lead a higher percentage of young black men to engage in the "criminal activity" to which Kevin referred? Is it possible that these tragic factors explain some percentage of the disparity under review in Kevin's post?
    Sadly, we would assume that it is.”

    If this is the case, then it seems likely it is a result of historical factors, such as bigotry, racism, and Jim Crow. I doubt that even Somerby would deny that.

    This situation, where blacks have a far higher rate of poverty and unemployment than whites, would logically suggest that specific interventions ought to be taken to address black poverty.

    But we all hear the howls of offense, at this blog as elsewhere, whenever race is mentioned.

    ReplyDelete
  27. “Is it possible that poverty, societal mistreatment and personal despair lead a higher percentage of young black men to engage in the "criminal activity" to which Kevin referred?”

    “Societal mistreatment?”

    You mean, like, say, racism or bigotry?

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
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  30. From Digby:

    Court filings in 2019 showed that the total value of the IRA’s Facebook ads that were deemed election-related amounted to $2,930, in a political cycle where billions of dollars were spent. The only reporter to write about that finding was Sperry, of Real Clear Investigations.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So ... Bob is obviously the problem.


      ;D

      Delete
  31. "that specific interventions ought to be taken to address black poverty."

    From Biden and Pelosi?


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    ReplyDelete
  32. Bob
    Bob
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    ReplyDelete
  33. Somerby
    Somerby
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    Somerby
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    ReplyDelete
  34. is
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  35. an
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  36. idiot
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    ReplyDelete
  37. Bobsomerbyisanidiot
    Bobsomerbyisanidiot
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    Bobsomerbyisanidiot
    Bobsomerbyisanidiot

    ReplyDelete
  38. From Digby:

    "The Clinton campaign put out a statement on Twitter, linking to what it called the “bombshell report” on Yahoo, but did not disclose that the campaign secretly paid the researchers who pitched it to Isikoff. In essence, the campaign was boosting, through the press, a story line it had itself engineered."

    ReplyDelete
  39. From Tucker Carlson:

    "The cops are aways the ones starting the riots, but if you squint enough you can see they only do so because the public is trying to hold them accountable for their actions."

    My other favorite from Tucker about the police, is when he quotes Easy-E.

    ReplyDelete
  40. From Digby:


    The corporate press and Democratic leadership is so proud of their coverage and promotion of Trump and Russia's collusion!

    Robert Trout, Clinton’s campaign lawyer, declined to comment on the record after an exchange of emails.

    Simpson declined to respond to my last message, which had included extensive background and questions about Fusion’s actions.

    Hamburger, who recently retired from the Post, declined to comment. The Post also declined to comment on Hamburger’s ties to Fusion.

    Foer, now at The Atlantic, declined to respond to an email seeking comment.

    Kramer declined to comment after I sent him an email explaining what this article would say about him.

    Adam Schiff declined to comment through his press aide, Lauren French, who said, in an email, “this isn’t something we’re going to move forward on.

    Buzbee and other Post journalists declined my requests for an interview.

    Kramer declined to comment after I disclosed all sides of the dispute to him.

    Jane Mayer declined to comment for the record.

    Marty Baron declined to be interviewed.

    Steele declined to comment, citing contractual obligations.

    Bolton declined to comment.

    A spokesman for NBC declined to comment.

    Other outlets mentioned in this piece declined to discuss their anonymous-sourcing practices.

    ReplyDelete
  41. From Digby:

    Most Americans (60 percent) say they want unbiased news sources. Yet 86 percent think the media is biased. The consequences of this mismatch are all too obvious: 83 percent of the audience for Fox News leans Republican while 91 percent of the readers of the New York Times lean Democratic.

    Jennifer Kavanagh, senior fellow in the American Statecraft Program of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, told me of her concerns about news silos.

    “If you are only getting your news from one source, you are getting a skewed view,” which, she said, “increases polarization” and “crowds out the room for compromise, because people base their views on these siloed news sources.” She added: “People don’t have time to deal with nuance, so they settle on a position and everything else tends to become unacceptable.”

    Walter Lippmann wrote about these dangers in his 1920 book Liberty and the News. Lippmann worried then that when journalists “arrogate to themselves the right to determine by their own consciences what shall be reported and for what purpose, democracy is unworkable.”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is exactly why Bob is trolled so hard. Readers of these partisan blogs and viewers of partisan cable "settled on a position and everything else tends to become unacceptable” because the journalists and bloggers they read have “arrogated to themselves the right to determine by their own consciences what shall be reported and for what purpose.”

      You ever feel like you've been cheated?

      Delete
    2. Where do the Left-wing Marxists and Socialists get their news, if not from the same corporations where Right-wing fascists get theirs?

      Delete
    3. “People don’t have time to deal with nuance, so they settle on a position and everything else tends to become unacceptable.”

      This is how idiotic claims that all Trump supporters are bigots come about.

      Delete
    4. "What about" left wing marxists and socialists????

      You're pathetic.

      Delete
    5. Hey - don't worry. This article - you never even be told of it. As far as you are concerned it doesn't exist. You can continue your nuance free democracy destroying polarization without worry! It feels SO GOOD!!

      Delete
    6. This is how idiotic claims that not all Trump supporters are bigots come about.

      Fixed for accuracy.

      Delete
    7. There are a thousand sides to every story.

      Delete
    8. The media is just asking 999 questions.

      Delete
    9. 8:29,
      That came about from the January 6th insurrection, when Republicans threw a childish temper tantrum, just because black peoples votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election.
      You couldn't have missed it. It was on all the TV stations live.

      Delete
    10. Criticism of Bob Somerby does not equal being duped by the news media, as 8:22 would have you believe. He frequently makes inaccurate claims about liberals (since he isn’t functioning solely as a media critic) that need to be corrected. And 8:22 has to ignore all of the criticism of the media that you see at most liberal blogs.

      Delete
    11. Somerby directly addresses liberal "journalists who have arrogated to themselves the right to determine by their own consciences what shall be reported and for what purpose” and problem it creates of "everything else tending to become unacceptable" from their gullible readerships, which is itself unacceptable. Therefore the trolling and ad hominem that he is "not really a liberal".

      You are are fools who have been duped. I know that's hard to hear.

      Delete
    12. And it's not your fault. It's nothing to be ashamed of. In a way, it means you are smart.

      Delete
    13. There's no defense you can make. You can only choose to continue to increases polarization, crowd out room for compromise and ruin Democracy by basing your views on siloed news sources.

      Delete
    14. And Somerby be continue to be correct in the main as you decide to continue to play the fool, basing your views on siloed news sources.

      Delete
    15. This is how idiotic claims that the Republican Party supports free markets come about.

      Delete
    16. Please tell us, @9:01, where do you get your news sources? Tell us fools who only consume “siloed” sources (even though we criticize those sources). This is your chance to educate us…

      Delete
    17. This quote didn't come from Digby.

      Delete
    18. We're in the advanced digital age. One has to traverse all the silos and one has source information available to them and they must read the direct sources. For example, the Mueller report. Which I read 12 times. Or the Sussman indictment which I read seven times. One has to understand the motivations of influence and power behind the source they are reading. And one has to take into account tobiases of the journalists they are reading and understand that they are for the most power selectively reporting the truth based on those beliefs.

      We'll all be able to tell our grandchildren what it was like to live through the period from 2016 to I don't know, 2025, when the American political and media class went completely insane.

      You can leave out the part that you read everyday an accurate criticism of it and fought tooth and nail to pretend it was not happening.

      Delete
    19. mh you have to first understand that what you are reading is siloed. You have to understand if you are reading a liberal blog or watching a liberal cable news show that you are only seeing information that is positive about Democrats and negative about Republicans. And conservative blogs and conservative cable shows will only show their audience information that is positive about Republicans and negative about democrats. So you have to enter this fray of propaganda and insanity first by understanding it really exists. And then consume the information accordingly. And of course you never believe anything you read, you confirm it preferably with sources. And if something sounds too good to be true, you question it. You're a hopelessly stupid fool as you've proven time and time again. You're a dumb hick from arkansas. So just do the best you can.

      Delete
    20. You must read all contemporary political information within the context that it is about one of two parties of a reckless, warmongering colonialist empire. You have to understand that the government you are talking about was built on a genocide. That it currently is the most powerful and rich country and government in the history of the world with the biggest most ruthless military in the history of the world and it goes about getting what it wants with the highest level of violence and corruption. You read news about it in the context that this government is in fealty to corporations, the ones who sponsor their campaigns and not to the people who they call their constituents. That the elections are bought and paid for and they do not have your interests in mind.

      Delete
    21. We all read the Mueller report, dumbass. And the Sussman indictment. How did that turn out, by the way? Or did your vast research fail to turn that up?

      Delete
  42. From Tucker Carlson:

    "When it comes to cops, Easy-E said it best, 'Fuck the police.'

    ReplyDelete