PROMISCUITIES: The New York Times refused to report...

TUESDAY, MAY 2, 2023

...what Joe Tacopina had done: Last Friday morning, early in the 6 o'clock hour, we were surprised (but also, possibly, not surprised) by what Joe Scarborough said.

We'd already read the New York Times report about the previous day's testimony in E. Jean Carroll's defamation lawsuit against Donald J. Trump. According to that news report, interactions between Carroll and defense attorney Joe Tacopina had been "curt but civil."

Now it was Joe Scarborough's turn to tell us what actually happened. Starting at 6:02 A.M., supported by seven reporters and friends, he spent ten minutes painting a picture which seemed to contradict what the New York Times had reported.

As we noted yesterday, Joe Scarborough told the world—or at least, he told our own blue tribe—what had actually happened. He did so three separate times. What had actually happened was this:

SCARBOROUGH (4/28/23): I'm just a simple country lawyer, but I would think that an attorney, in New York City, would not be screaming at a woman who is saying his client raped her.

And, and time and time again, as E. Jean Carroll was telling the jury this, this just horrific story about how she was raped, Joe Tacopina was, was berating her, yelling at her. The judge repeatedly had to call him off. 

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: Danny [Cevallos], you're neither a country lawyer nor are you mediocre like me. So perhaps you can just verify for our friends at home, it's not good to yell at somebody who could have been a rape victim on the stand.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: Right now, think about it. We talk about all these other cases that are going on right now. This may be a civil case, but this is a case involving Donald Trump raping somebody. Raping somebody.

We talk about payoffs to porn stars? This is a case where he has been accused by E. Jean Carroll of rape. He's not even showing up. His lawyer is screaming at the possible rape victim, and it's not going well.

According to Scarborough, Tacopina had spent the day screaming and yelling at Carroll. According to Scarborough, he'd done so "time and time again," berating her as he did.

Indeed, he had yelled at her with such frequency that the judge "repeatedly had to call him off!" As we ingested our morning joe, it seemed to us that this pretty much wasn't what the Times had said.

As is the custom in our nation's current pseudo-discourse, Scarborough was surrounded by seven helpmates as he spoke this morning. None of his seven associates asked him to provide a source for his claims or questioned what he had said. 

Also, none of these sidekicks and hangers-on had been present in the courtroom the previous day. Scarborough hadn't been there either, but he seemed quite sure about his account of what had happened.

We were surprised, but possibly not surprised, by what the cable star said. 

In all honesty, it didn't seem especially likely to us that Tacopina had been screaming and yelling at Carroll in the manner the cable star described. That said, in an admirable excess of caution, we decided to go back and reread what the New York Times had reported. 

When we did, we found no mention of all the screaming and yelling which had occurred. Instead, a quartet of Times reporters were telling the public this:

WEISER ET AL (4/28/23): During the cross-examination on Thursday, tensions ebbed and flowed. Ms. Carroll’s interactions with Mr. Tacopina were curt but civil, with occasional flashes of irritation and anger.

When Mr. Tacopina used the word “supposedly” to describe her accusation at one point, it drew a firm rebuke.

“Not supposedly. I was raped,” Ms. Carroll said.

“That’s your version, right, Ms. Carroll, that you were raped?” Mr. Tacopina responded.

“Those are the facts,” she said.

At times during the cross-examination, Mr. Tacopina’s approach led to admonishments from the judge, Lewis A. Kaplan of Federal District Court. “Come on, Mr. Tacopina,” the judge said at one point, later repeating that the lawyer’s questions were “argumentative.”

Another time Judge Kaplan told Mr. Tacopina, “You get to make a closing argument in this case, counselor, and this isn’t the time for it.”

According to the Times reporters, there were "occasional" flashes of irritation and anger—but on balance, those occasional flashes seemed to have come from Carroll herself, as would be completely appropriate.

The judge had admonished Tacopina "at times," the Times report had said. In all honesty, these seemed to be the kinds of admonishments which are fairly common during trials. 

Also, then too, there was this: 

There was no mention of the repeated screaming and yelling Scarborough had described for us in our cosseted blue tribe world. If Tacopina actually had behaved that way, the New York Times had decided to cover it up.

By now, a certain thought had entered our heads. It had begun to occur to us that Scarborough had perhaps been making it up.

Such behavior has been common as the so-called "democratization of media" has spread like kudzu over the land over the past three or four decades. 

In fairness, we'd also been watching Deadline: White House on Thursday afternoon, when MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin described what she'd seen at the trial. Rubin spoke with that channel's demagogue-adjacent ratings star, Nicolle Wallace.

Rubin had been present in the courtroom that day. As the Deadline: White House segment began, Wallace offered a brief overview of the day's events. 

After that, for better or worse, this is what came next:

WALLACE (4/27/23): E. Jean Carroll on the witness stand is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends.

[...]

Lisa, I start with you. Take your time and take us through the day.

RUBIN: The day was extraordinarily powerful, Nicolle, and what I would say is that Joe Tacopina was in some instances much gentler than folks anticipated. But he definitely tried his very hardest to shake up E. Jean Carroll...

Even in the context of an accusation concerning rape and its deeply destructive aftermath, Wallace wasn't willing to drop her branding statement about the way we were going to hear from "our favorite reporters and friends."

On this day, Rubin had been cast in the role of one of these favorite reporters. She started her account of the day in the manner shown.

For what it's worth, we'd have to say that Tacopina, as the defense attorney in this case, is supposed to "try to shake up" the accuser, though he must work within acceptable legal limits. 

For better or worse, our legal system works that way. We'd guess that everyone secretly knows that.

That said, when Rubin was asked to take us through the day, she started by saying that Tacopina had been "much gentler" than anticipated. Also this:

Like the people at the New York Times, she never mentioned the screaming and yelling which Scarborough would later report.

As of last Friday at 6 A.M., we'd seen Rubin present that report. We'd read the New York Times. 

Then, we saw what Scarborough said. Seven stooges sat around him on the set, happily earning their paychecks.

Increasingly, this is the way our failing, post-journalistic media discourse now works. The recipe for such moveable feasts is known to all:

Start with familiar Storyline. Then, embellish to taste!

As the week proceeds, we'll ask you to think about the kinds of productive discussions which could be taking place if people like Joe and the seven dwarves weren't clowning the world in this manner.

We'll ask you to think about the kinds of productive discussions which could be occurring—productive discussions about the best ways to handle allegations like this one, to cite one possible type of discussion.

Your lizard brain is going to tell you that what Scarborough said and did was correct. On the even brighter side, nothing we say here is going to change the way these thoroughly tribalized imitations of discourse now work.

Tomorrow: The Washington Post, the Associated Press, NBC News itself...


19 comments:

  1. Ever watch the movie Rashomon?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Once again, Bob’s go to source for keeping MSNBC honest is …. MSNBC.
    Wallace is a demagogue, Trump is “disordered.”

    ReplyDelete
  3. When you exist in a sea of obsession with dominance, blaming the victim feels fine, so Somerby proceeds.

    ReplyDelete
  4. The “lizard brain” name calling is always a sure sign Bob is on very shaky ground. The interesting element in the case is has Trump’s sewer mouth (but the poor man is disordered!) finally caught up with him. His public denigration of Carroll is obviously what the case is about, but that is of no interest to Bob. If the jury sided with her (the likely outcome) Somerby will be back threatening another Trump victory next year. Could an honest person at this point claim that’s not what he wants?

    ReplyDelete
  5. " Ms. Carroll’s interactions with Mr. Tacopina were curt but civil, with occasional flashes of irritation and anger."

    Somerby highlights this sentence to support his claim that the NY Times described Tacopina's behavior differently than Morning Joe. The only problem is that the NY Times is describing Ms. Carroll's behavior, her reaction to Tacopina, not vice versa. This is not about how Tacopina behaved toward Carroll at all.

    How do we know this? The sentence says:

    "Ms. Carroll’s interactions with Mr. Tacopina..."

    NOT "Mr. Tacopina's interactions with Ms. Carroll..."

    Somerby can read, so it seems likely he is deliberately misrepresenting this. Why would he do that?

    Here is where Mr. Tacopina's behavior is described:

    "At times during the cross-examination, Mr. Tacopina’s approach led to admonishments from the judge..."

    And it continues by listing the interventions the judge made because Tacopina was not following the rules of cross-examination. No, the paper doesn't say he was yelling and screaming, but the judge did admonish him for being "argumentative" and including inappropriate statements in his cross-examination. Being argumentative could come across as yelling at the witness, badgering her, trying to force her off of her given statements. Yelling is probably still an exaggeration, but it isn't that far removed from what Tacopina was doing, in my opinion, especially as someone who did not hear the actual testimony. It is not Scarborough's fault that he was not present in the courtroom.

    ReplyDelete
  6. First Somerby quotes Rubin as follows:

    "what I would say is that Joe Tacopina was in some instances much gentler than folks anticipated. But he definitely tried his very hardest to shake up E. Jean Carroll..."

    Then Somerby says:

    "That said, when Rubin was asked to take us through the day, she started by saying that Tacopina had been "much gentler" than anticipated."

    These statements are not the same. What is different? Somerby leaves out the phrase "in some instances". That limits when Tacopina was gentler to only some occasions, not his entire cross-examination.

    Somerby also leaves out the part about trying to shake up Carroll too. How does one try to shake up a witness? How does one do that to the point of earning multiple interventions by the judge? It isn't by confronting her with facts. It is by being "argumentative" and badgering her, and that can come across exactly like yelling at her (regardless of decibel level) and that is why most attorney's in Tacopina's situation don't do that. It is why women are often the defense attorney's, because even when a woman is raising her voice, she is less likely to be perceived as "yelling" and "screaming".

    Somerby is working overtime to make it seem like Tacopina was the "curt but civil" person, but that just isn't what happened. Others besides Rubin have questioned Tacopina's approach. Somerby doesn't quote them, even though they are all over the internet being interviewed about the trial. They are found in articles about how Tacopina has blown the defense with his tactics.

    Anyone who thinks Somerby is being unbiased in his examination of this case is more deranged than Trump.

    ReplyDelete
  7. The second amendment is evil.

    ReplyDelete
  8. "For what it's worth, we'd have to say that Tacopina, as the defense attorney in this case, is supposed to "try to shake up" the accuser, though he must work within acceptable legal limits.

    For better or worse, our legal system works that way. We'd guess that everyone secretly knows that."

    What is "worse" about requiring attorneys to work within acceptable legal limits? Does Somerby think it is better to allow defense attorneys to browbeat on cross-examination or to insert prejudicial closing statements into their cross? Why do we "secretly" know that? I know it explicitly. Anyone who has ever watched a TV courtroom drama (not a show like Judge Judy) knows that.

    Is Somerby now someone who thinks procedural rules shouldn't matter, that different rules should apply to Tacopina as he defends Trump, or there should be different rules for questioning female rape accusers? What is he hinting at with this odd language? Is he trying to imply that the judge WAS biased and enforced the rules improperly, or that judges shouldn't be able to interfere to enforce rules? And why doesn't Somerby come out and say what he means, instead of inserting these unexplained hints?

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Seven stooges sat around him on the set, happily earning their paychecks."

    Five stooges sit around on the show called The Five. If there were seven, it wouldn't be The Five, would it? These talk show formats seem to confuse Somerby. The producers define the format and it doesn't matter if Somerby thinks Joe and Mika should just be talking heads facing the camera instead of simulating a group of friends talking over coffee (or whatever).

    This has to be among the stupidest of Somerby's complaints. Even Bill Maher, who pretends to be a comedian, has a group of guests sitting with him around a table. They argue with each other, while Maher himself fawns over the conservatives without challenging what they say. During that portion of his show, Maher plays Geist to the conservatives while telling them how brave they are to be his guests. The liberals are always on their own. And no one is allowed to out-funny the host. That is how the rules work on such shows. Somerby appears to want to rewrite those rules too.

    So what?

    ReplyDelete
  10. "if people like Joe and the seven dwarves weren't clowning the world in this manner"

    "The terms "dwarf", "little person", "LP", and "person of short stature" are generally considered acceptable by most people affected by these disorders."

    I wonder how a group of little people would feel about being considered to be clowns simply by virtue of their stature? Is it nice to call someone a dwarf who is of normal size, implying that they are buffoonish (or is Mika supposed to be Snow White)? This is like calling them retards or spazs, using the name of a disorder as a disparaging term, as if being a dwarf were something to deride.

    But Somerby does the same thing when he applies terms describing mental illness to people who are not diagnosed.

    Somerby should know better than to do these things. He was undoubtedly taught not to do this, as a child, because rules of civility say that you don't demean people due to accidents of birth. And this is the guy who was objecting because Kevin Drum referred to East Bumfuck County and Somerby thought that was demeaning. So it is OK for him to demean those he dislikes, but not for others to do the same. One set of rules for Somerby, another for those he dislikes (liberals).

    Personally, I think this reflects the MAGA attitude that rules don't apply to them, their joy at owning the libs by behaving like assholes. Because what are we going to do about it? I have nothing against Mika or Joe or Geist, so I don't see the point of such diatribes, except perhaps to steer people away from mainstream media by mocking people who are not doing anything wrong that I can see.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shouldn't Somerby model what it looks like to disagree with someone while being civil, instead of mocking Geist because Joe thought Tacopina was yelling? And we don't have access to video of the trial, so it is even remotely possible Joe and Mika were right, and not Somerby -- anything is possible.

      Delete
  11. "... but on balance, ...."

    What a weasel.

    ReplyDelete
  12. "Your lizard brain is going to tell you..."

    I do not have a lizard brain because I am not a lizard.

    A long time ago, when Somerby first started talking about lizard brains, I reminded him that the theory of the triune brain has been discredited:

    https://mindmatters.ai/2021/03/no-you-do-not-have-a-lizard-brain-inside-your-human-brain/

    ReplyDelete
  13. "The judge had admonished Tacopina "at times," the Times report had said. In all honesty, these seemed to be the kinds of admonishments which are fairly common during trials. "

    And yet, Tacopina filed a request for a mistrial based on the judge's admonishments, calling the judge biased. Clearly Trump and his attorney did not consider those admonishments routine or typical of a what happens during a trial.

    It may be possible that Tacopina behaved improperly in order to evoke such admonishments, so that they could file for a mistrial and set up an appeal for Trump after his conviction. As I suggested yesterday, it may also be possible that Tacopina feels compelled to behave aggressively because Trump likes attorneys who are bulldogs in the courtroom. He has dismissed some previously for not being tough enough. Trump no doubt wants to see Carroll humiliated and bullied and it may be that Tacopina is doing what Trump wants, the reason he was selected by Trump to defend him. Tacopina surely knows better than to behave as he has been described doing by many people who were in court, but he may feel he has no choice but to do what Trump wants.

    Somerby is not considering the truth of what happened in the courtroom. He is trying to defend Trump's defense, implying that the judge was unfairly admonishing Tacopina, who was only providing a normal defense. The more you read elsewhere, the less accurate Somerby's view seems to be.

    Is this just liberal preferred narrative? Yes, if you consider that liberals prefer to be closer to the truth whereas the right wing makes up whatever lies it wants to tell.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My understanding is those requests for mistrial are a standard Hail Mary. As was explained by Joyce Vance, the lawyer has to tread very carefully attempting to discredit a rape victim. It can easily backfire. Morning Joe is a grandstander, but Bob simply wants to help Trump, and it’s a good sign this was the best he could do.

      Delete
  14. Defund the Supreme Court.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The word promiscuous is inappropriate in this context. It is applied to women and refers to sex. Perhaps Somerby is trying to associate it with Carroll, which would make him an even bigger Asshole. I see no other reason for him to have used it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Promiscuous" has other meanings.

      https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=promiscuous+

      Delete
  16. Republicans should support statehood for Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia.

    ReplyDelete